Love it! I totally agree with Roger...If I'm paying a master plumber to come repair something at my house, I want him to solder or use PEX with expansion fittings. If I'm doing my own stuff, I'm probably using press ons, both are fine. If I have 1600 PSI in my water system, I have way worse problems than those fittings.
Honestly expansion pex blows out the fittings before the crimp will. Crimp blows out the pipe. Anything under too much pressure or from freezing is going to blow out somewhere. Propress fittings blow off from freezing easily. No matter what, extreme conditions will cause a problem. Just some hold up a little longer.
These debates don't exist in my country they ended about 20 years ago when Mannesmann introduced the Mapress press system (Geberit bought the patent of Mapress since Mannesmann doesn't exist anymore)
I'd love to see tool comparison, particularly including Klein and Knipex among others. Also a fun topic would be backstory and current code around tying off electrical grounds to copper plumbing.@@RogerWakefield
@@RogerWakefield One thing I would like to see is a comparison between copper, steel and pex and sizing in regards to heat transfer. I’m doing air/water heat pumps, and this is something people can really debate.
I really enjoy these info. videos. The one thing to remember is that the average home water pressure is somewhere around 60-80 lbs. average pressure. All 3 fitting should never leaks if the prep work is done per Manufactures instructions. In today’s word where I live Pex pipe is standard with adaptions to copper and I believe the plumbers pressure test to 200 - 250 lbs. of course with Pex they will use the standard Pex fittings with compression rings to seal the connection.
I feel better about my Sharkbites that I installed in my house after watching this video. No one installed shut off values on the laundry sink, and that how I chose to fix the bad cartridges in the sink. I agree with you 100% Roger on Sharkbites not being used by plumbers. My mom had a contractor redo her bathroom, and he did everything in PEX-B and Sharkbites. I was was upset, with him because the crimp system on PEX-B isn't that hard to use either.
Should the plumber have used copper and brazed it instead? Would you have been most happy then? Not to mention the price would have went up a lot more. Isn't hard to do, means cheaper labor. Granted I would never use sharkbites, regardless of any of these videos. Maybe a cap on a line that is exposed for temp purposes, but probably not.
You're glad you used shark bites. Just as I indicated as to NEVER, and I mean, NEVER braze copper, you a merchandisers dream. You have no idea what's already on its way to you. No, I'm not remotely involved in the plumbing industry. I do indy CS for two other industries.
Agree shouldn't have an issue with any of those. I personally would worry more about how they age. How long is that O-Ring going to work in a hot unairconditioned space under a house which also gets a bit chilly (just above freezing) in the winter. I personally replumbed with PEX crimp fittings and my family member who was helping was dumbfounded that I could replumb the house in a little over an hour. He complained about crawling around in his place dealing with copper and steel lines for hours and still having problems, even then I told him replace with PEX. I will have to say however I know of one area where the water pressure was probably WAY above what it should have been. My girlfriend was living outside of Pittsburgh PA when we met and I have no CLUE what the pressure was as I didn't have the tools to check but it blew a hole in the side of a brand new hose. I would guess above 150 PSI but she lived at the bottom of a hill which was around 1000 feet ASL with the water tower located closer to 1325 feet ASL. Actually I am geek enough to do the math and say 9.759 atmospheres of pressure or about 146 PSI based on the rough guesstimates which exclude the height of the water in the tower, lol. Anyway the place didn't have a pressure reducing device on the lines so the water heater's would only last a couple years before springing leaks. And for anyone wondering about the math, it's REALLY rough but for every 33.3 feet in elevation (or depth when diving) we gain approx. 15 PSI of water pressure. It's one of the reasons why altitude diving is dangerous. At sea level we have approx. 15 PSI of air pushing down on us or 1 ATM (atmosphere) of pressure, in metric this is 1 BAR. When we go up in elevation the air pressure is lower so divers need to spend a bit longer between 10 and 15 feet under water to try and vent off more of the built up nitrogen in our systems before surfacing because instead of 15 PSI of air pressure we may have only 12 PSI of air pressure. It may not seem like much but it's a big difference and can cause a diver to have DCS (decompression sickness also known as the bends) even though the diver seemingly wasn't under water long enough to have that happen and likely wouldn't have if they were diving at sea level. The pressure calculations are also often used by fire fighters dealing with high rises, if a crew is working 20 or 30 stories in the air the truck supplying the water has to increase the pressure so that the water coming out of the hose is within a range that it can be handled while also in a range to give enough flow for the water to do it's job. I couldn't imagine trying to wrestle a fire hose with 400 PSI water coming out of it and if the pressure is closer to 10 PSI there wouldn't be enough flow to do anything. It's kinda the goldilocks problem where the pressure has to be just right.
@georgedavall9449 yep. Wet wall was about 6 feet from the distribution block with an open cavity underneath. One person at the distribution block and one at the endpoint. Feed a piece of pex down and poke it through the hole. Cut that line and repeat, calling out where each one belongs so they can be marked. The old lines were mostly pvc and cpvc though I did have to cut a piece of steel in one place. When you are just replacing lines it's not that hard to do unless you have to wall fish. That's the beauty of pex and an old house the holes are already there and running the lines doesn't require fittings except at the ends. Though the pro plumber who replaced the guy across the streets lines with pex and it took him all day. Took his helper all day to cut the old stuff out too... I'm guessing they had to remove 6 inch pieces at a time with all steel lines. I was appalled since that was in a place with a half basement. Now copper and steel will take all day because of all the fittings
This is great content. I'm an electrician, but I have been around some ProPress stuff, and always had questions about anything relying on an o-ring for long periods. This video covers something a little different, but reinforces the idea that proper installation is the key to any of these methods, as I have seen some failures of press fittings on the job.
@@davo912 cars aren't made to last as long as house plumbing. repairing a car's ac is almost always going to be cheaper to repair than damage done by a water leak.
The best thing about SharkBite is the fact it's a quick repair. Just don't let it freeze. I prefer propress, but from a budget perspective, PEX B with a compressed ring is a great alternative.
PEX B is an inferior product as the fittings restrict water flow. They have to be a smaller diameter so that the pipe can slide over the fitting. With PEX A the pipe is expanded to fit over the full port fitting with no loss in ID.
@@solo8820 Its easy to overcome the restricted flow of Pex B by just going up to 3/4" tubing. Pex with the stainless steel compression bands is so easy to use.
Interesting test. The results may have been skewed due to the small sample size (one of each) and the fast pressure change. I would recommend testing at least three of each and increasing the pressure very slowly instead of pressurizing it so quickly that you cant even see what the burst pressure is with the naked eye. The problem is that the fitting may actually work themselves off slowly over time. I would probably do a few tests increasing the pressure a few hundred psi per second to get an approximate range. Then you can increase the pressure quickly to say 75 precent of the value then instead it by 50 psi a second to give it time to equilibrate. Then do another test where you leave it cost to the pressure for a few days to see if that changes anything. Please also include the regular shark bite for comparison.
Typical resi water pressure should rarely be over 80 PSI so you have like a 10X overhead factor of safety, at least, with any of these fittings. This sorta settles the issue.
90% of what trades men do homeowners can do, the reason we charge what we charge and justify it is the knowledge we have to do the work properly and able to insure our work with warranties. Obviously theres those who overcharge and are just scummy companies but you know why we charge what we do.
Efficiency is a huge part of it as well. It would take a homeowner ample more time for a simple job. You show up find the problem and fix it properly in 2 hours. A homeowner would have 2 hours researching how to find the problem.
well its a fine line between charging fair and beingb the scummy one. i mean the scummy ones say they charge for what they know not what they do as well. you need to charge enough to stay in buisness but if everyone is getting 500 an hour you arent doing it for 50. the scummy ones drive the going rate up for the honest guys too its called supply and demand. If another plumber can work for half of what you charge and do better work guess what you wind up having to lower your price or starve. but if they are all charging much higher prices the "honest guy" will raise his prices due to "experiance and knowledge" or how bout this just because he can. its human nature
It’s been 18 years since I’ve redone the pipes in my home and from the pipe leaving my well pump all the way through my home is all shark bite style fittings and plastic pex style pipe all shut offs and unions are shark bite style fittings and there has not been a single leak blow out or anything remotely close and we get negative 10 degree weather at the worst end. If done right it’s a very affordable solution. If I had the experience then that I do now maybe I would’ve went another route but I have no complaints. When I do a customers home I try to solder or use crimp fittings but in the end it comes down to budget of the homeowner. In my last 20 years of home improvement experience I’ve had maybe 3 shark bites fail and was called back. I’d say 3 out of a couple thousand jobs isn’t bad but again it’s the homeowners budget that makes the difference I’ll charge less for a sharkbite fix than I would a solder or crimp fix
Awesome experiment that’s detailed and explained. Thanks for this insight! I’m using push to connect for everything. Forget sweating unless I’m doing HVAC
If the water pipes in my house get that high in pressure, there are bigger things to worry about. I used sharkbite to replace my sink valves under the sink. Worked great. While i could have soldered new ones.... i just didnt want to. If a plumber came in and pulled sharkbite out of his bag, he would be fired before he started.
Propress does rely on the O ring for the seal, it’s secondary to the mechanical compression of the copper. Silver cymbal tested the fitting with out the o ring and it still didn’t leak with normal pressure.
I feel like the test that's needed is to see how they withstand prolonged vibration. especially the press fittings used in HVAC... I had one fail on a long 7/8" line and the system lost all the refrigerant, which was quite a bit, I was told. the installer said the fitting maker would cover everything, but they still replaced it with a brazed connection.
The fact that it took anywhere near that much pressure to blow those fittings off is very impressive. But the fact that the copper pipe easily took that much pressure with no observable distortion is really impressive.
I recently watched a video where they took the rubber or neoprene seals out of a press coupler and it held normal household pressure without them with no leaking until he hammered on the connection for awhile.
Awesome video!! I would love to see this test with something a little more realistic like multiple water hammers. Would the press fitting or push-connect slowly work their way off the pipe after multiple water hammers?
I love how people are throwing out all these suggestions. Folks you will never have pressure remotely this high on water lines I was anti shark bite in walls but this makes me feel better but over time I’m still skeptical so it’s press or solder for me 🤷🏽♂️ but I’m picky I’m sure any of these is a good choice.
Just wanted to comment that I had a failure in my building where Sharkbite was used on chilled water where pressure was considerable higher than city pressure. It was a major flood! I require Propress in our building now. No hot work or Sharkbite allowed.
Every type of piping has it's pros and cons. Doesn't anyone remember galvanized steel for potable use, and it with copper made such a great electrical ground for the dwelling. 😊
I used a shark bite valve on a line I couldn't solder before I had pro press it was on a heat line after 5 years it leaked I think it was the expansion and contraction
I do however use shark bite caps sometimes when I rough if new plumbing I'll pop them on the stub outs and when I'm ready for finish pop them off I can reuse them and I don't have to cut off sweat caps that I just throw in the scrap heap
Should have tested the push fittings with pex and pvc as well just to see what happens to them. I personally avoid shark bites for interiors and underground use. I'm tired of having to deal with leaks involving improperly installed push connect fittings. Like how hard is it to clean the pipe and deburr/ream it? My main issue with push fittings is the oring will shrink over time or simply wear out from being under pressure. I solder or use press fittings whenever I can.
I’m more interested in long term durability at service pressure rather than factor of safety against overload. How long before the o-rings deteriorate and slow leaks commence?… I don’t like the idea of O-ring seals inside finished walls. However, at accessible and visible locations I see no problem with them. The best fitting is no fitting so I am thus very fond of expansion Pex A which is also very fast to install and also has the added benefit of freeze overload resistance due to its flexibility. Cheers!
I use press fittings a lot in my facilities maintenance job so I don’t have to go through the hassle of getting a hot work permit from store management and doing the fire watch bs for my employer.
This is an interesting test but I’d like to see a real life situation test. How well does it hold under bending pressure, or longevity. Kind of hard to do those tests probably but I wouldn’t base my preference off max pressure alone.
Soldering is something plumbers want you to think is stronger than anything. Most house pressure is around 40-60 give or take. Put the stuff on correctly and you wont have issues. If you want to solder pipes get some and practice , its not even remotely difficult.
I'd argue with you on the "its not even remotely difficult" comment about soldering. There is some difficulty heating the pipes up correctly and not burning off all the flux. And getting the solder to melt all around the pipe. Now, anyone can solder household size copper pipes correctly. But most DIY handymen would choose an easier method if available. Like Pex B clamps.
I’m confident with all of ‘em. If you have time and space, solder. If you can spend a ton on tools, press fittings. No time or space, sharks and quicks.
1500 PSI seems to be plenty strong considering the input pressure of 'city water' as long as the joints are all prepped correctly and all the copper flake is removed from the bevel. As the home owner, I'm ok with using Shark Bites at locations in the basement where I'm transitioning from copper to PEX so that I can do what I want with the PEX up stream, but once it's PEX, I'm using PEX fittings. Probably springing the Dewalt Pro-PEX tool-only during my next bathroom renovation to help me with the shower plumbing- the price seems about right when it's on sale.
Just wand to point out that if the entire system that was installed with faucet . Shark bite fitting , I believe that the faucet fail first , also by code the max pressure for the line is 65psi . So I believe it is can hold over 65psi which is more than what is allowed by code than I believe it is good for quick repair .
Would be interesting to see olive compression fittings with copper, and all the fittings again with PEX. In the UK mains water can be up to 10 bar/ 145 psi. I lived somewhere at 9 bar for a while, violent water hammer in that place 😂. Everything was soldering, no leaks.
LoL, this popped up in my feed. Just had a SharkBite blow loose in my garage. Flooding it by the garage door. Luckily I caught it right away. 1/2" line going to the Hose bib outside. Popped when the water timer turned off. I just checked the pressure to. 70psi. That was the only Sharkbite on the whole run rest was soldiered. Going to soldier this one after I replace the hose bib. I wonder if these fitting have a cycle life and fatigue over time.
@@RogerWakefield I can say it has not been touched in two years since my that's when my dad died. Probably over a decade more likely. The Stainless Steel teeth were worn down. It was a 90. When I took the other side off with the tool and you could see the teeth were longer on that end. The piece of cooper it blow off was sanded. When I put the replacement one on it looked like it went on the same depth. Don't know if my dad ever took it of over the years though.
How much water pressure in in the copper lines of a normal house. I'm upgrading my 60 year old bathroom and have capped off the sink tap copper pipes with compression fittings and they too are holding well and with no leaks.
I'd love to see a mock of a pressurized pex b line flowing to multiple fixtures like a toilet, water heater, shower, and sink to see how bad restrictions are with Pex b insert fittings/valves. My apartment was built with all 1/2" pex and sharkbites so no issues with flow but it would look so much better with uniform connections. I know the alternative is to upsize to 3/4" but that's not really and option as a non-owner to start demo on walls for something cosmetic as pipe lines and fittings that are not leaking.
First of all, i love your channel. Long time follower. Stop video at 2min to write this. I have seen your previous videos testing sharkebite fittings. Glad to see a new video using there new "max" fittings, as I do sell this product at my supply chain. (Pace Supply) looking forward to see if sharkebite improved on their design. Also, because I dont recommend this product unless it is need for a "quick fix". Thank you.
I trust solder more than anything else. That being said, I tend to propress in areas that will remain accessible (ie water heater hookups) and solder in tight spots or areas that will not be accessible later.
@@RogerWakefield I like that you were fair, unbiased and non-judgmental about the testing and results. seems like this particular topic is a never ending argument from various plumbers and tradesmen and you just put the facts out there and let people make their own decision. Presentation was excellent and fun to watch!
In the pro-press fitting, does the swaged copper provide a watertight seal with the O-ring to back it up, or is the O-ring the primary water seal? can you test a pro-press fitting without the O-ring?
i had a copper pipe and had white/blue fussy corrsion on the outside. plumber said it was a small pinhole. fixed it with 2 propress and i got charged $500....does that seem excessive? And that was just 2 days after i spent $3200 on a new water heater. you think they would have thrown me a bone on the pipe repair
I'd like to see you test the propress valves viega has double o rings on there ball valves nibco doesn't it would be interested to see what the difference would be
Guys, I encountered such a problem, there is an old soft copper pipe in the house. I had to reconnect to this pipe with a press fitting and continue further with an L pipe. What do you think, can there be problems in the future at the junction of the press fitting and the soft copper pipe? The pipe is soft, bends a little. So far, there is no leakage at these junctions.
The problem with push to connect is that they will losen overtime and will eventually fail. Time should be the variable not pressure, but then again how could you possibly test the test of time?
Instead of flapping your gums how about posting the research that proves out what your mouth if babbling about the fittings loosening over time..also how about a spelling class as well. IT's Spelled LOOSEN not LOSEN
My concern with these connections was never pressure but time. How does these connections stand up after 10 years of temperature swings every day for 10 years? And for the record, all of these new connections are for the benefit of the builder, not the home owner. It's quicker & easier for the builder so take anything they say about it with a grain of salt.
My coworker who was a licensed plumber was using sharkbite fittings when he was attempting to fix my leak. Our issue is the sharkbite did leak and we tried to release the fitting. They would not come apart. He cleaned it but we could not get it apart to recheck the pipe. I was skeptical about pro press fittings but you proved that they are reliable if done right.
We just replumbed my house with Pex A. As for your comment he was trying to temporarily patch my water line using Pex A to connect with the CPVC in the dead of winter. The CPVC fittings are scarce and not readily available where I live. Now that we went PEX A my house has a new water heater, new angle stops. There is no guarantee I won’t have frozen pipes but I have plenty of tubing/pipe and leftover parts to patch any future leaks. My hose bib was connected with white PEX and never busted and it is under my back deck. He also fixed the sewage line that broke. Kaufman Broad was the manufacturer of my mobile home and did a poor job. They strapped the sewage line so tight it snapped the pipe. House originally had Quest Pipe. They had Galvanized pipe for a shower riser attached to the brass fixture which was leaking due to corrosion. Everything we did is a significant upgrade.
Did you make that test rig or who did you buy it from? Barbee engineered testing systems? I use to work for the in San Diego building test beaches for like 6 years. Love and miss that job.
My issue with all of these fittings regardless of how they affix. How long are those O-rings going to last before they start leaking. 10 years, 20, 50, 100? I know if I use a solder joint after 100 years that joint is going to still be intact. Even Pex I would trust more than those O-rings as far as longevity. How many houses are out there 50+ years old and still have the original copper or galvy pipe? Now I don't like galvy any more than the next guy but I have seen MANY homes 80+ years old with galvy pipe that are still chooching along. I would never use any of those fittings on a boiler system unless it was on the cold water feed. Just my 2 cents.
The highest water pressure on hot & cold water lines was in a slaughter house when they were running a 150 HP booster pump at night when c!meaning crew would go to lunch. Used to blow out an ice maker several times a year until they installed pressure regulators on lines. Pressure would reach 175#'s !
I wanted to see what the propress at 10x the cost per fitting was going to do, the fact that the fitting blew off tells me everything I need to know. I will continue soldering for the strongest, best quality joints as the solder joint in your test did not fail the actual copper pipe burst.
Sharkbite is great, but i find you pay for the quick installations. if you're doing one or 2 things, not so bad, but if you're doing a decent bit of work than SB is gonna cost 3x the amount i find.
those press fittings are rated to 15 bar which is 217 psi so obviously it’s gonna blow at 1600 psi, press fittings never give unless fitted incorrectly
I believe the reason the easy press in fittings fail a good amount of the time is 3 parts: 1st, like you said being uneducated. 2nd, is unideal situations like hard to reach or tight spaces that make deburring, cutting straight and installing the fittings difficult. 3rd, i believe is people just not having everything they need to fix the issue properly, so they just make due with what they have by not cutting back as far as they should have, not deburring properly, not using all new fittings, installing things with force cuz they aren’t lining up correctly, etc.
Damn, that's cutting it close man. I like to keep the PSI around 1500 in my house. Makes using the bidet something I look forward to each time.
Gotta love that pressure washer clean finish
😂😂😂😂 I can’t
Laughing (and blasting) my ass off!
That is a damn water jet cutter. You gonna tunnel down into the colon and get up with a whole new anus.
Ha ha
Love it! I totally agree with Roger...If I'm paying a master plumber to come repair something at my house, I want him to solder or use PEX with expansion fittings. If I'm doing my own stuff, I'm probably using press ons, both are fine. If I have 1600 PSI in my water system, I have way worse problems than those fittings.
You buying a propress for own home repairs ?
@@TH3huntz354 No I meant PTC or slip ons like the Shark.
Tip: if you have a specific request for how you want something repaired, mention that when you hire someone.
Don't just leave it up to the tech
Honestly expansion pex blows out the fittings before the crimp will. Crimp blows out the pipe. Anything under too much pressure or from freezing is going to blow out somewhere. Propress fittings blow off from freezing easily. No matter what, extreme conditions will cause a problem. Just some hold up a little longer.
You dont have 1600 psi in ur water system wtf
I would very much support a continual ProjectFarm-esque subseries of videos testing hotly debated plumbing topics! Great idea Roger
We plan on making more of these! Do you have anything specific you'd like to see us test?
These debates don't exist in my country they ended about 20 years ago when Mannesmann introduced the Mapress press system (Geberit bought the patent of Mapress since Mannesmann doesn't exist anymore)
I'd love to see tool comparison, particularly including Klein and Knipex among others.
Also a fun topic would be backstory and current code around tying off electrical grounds to copper plumbing.@@RogerWakefield
@@RogerWakefield One thing I would like to see is a comparison between copper, steel and pex and sizing in regards to heat transfer. I’m doing air/water heat pumps, and this is something people can really debate.
And thermal imagers are only getting better and less costly.@@Y-oldfaithful
Roger what you are doing is pure quality. I wish one day we can see you and project farm collab on something!
I really enjoy these info. videos.
The one thing to remember is that the average home water pressure is somewhere around 60-80 lbs. average pressure.
All 3 fitting should never leaks if the prep work is done per Manufactures instructions.
In today’s word where I live Pex pipe is standard with adaptions to copper and I believe the plumbers pressure test to 200 - 250 lbs. of course with Pex they will use the standard Pex fittings with compression rings to seal the connection.
I feel better about my Sharkbites that I installed in my house after watching this video. No one installed shut off values on the laundry sink, and that how I chose to fix the bad cartridges in the sink. I agree with you 100% Roger on Sharkbites not being used by plumbers. My mom had a contractor redo her bathroom, and he did everything in PEX-B and Sharkbites. I was was upset, with him because the crimp system on PEX-B isn't that hard to use either.
Who cares
Should the plumber have used copper and brazed it instead? Would you have been most happy then? Not to mention the price would have went up a lot more. Isn't hard to do, means cheaper labor. Granted I would never use sharkbites, regardless of any of these videos. Maybe a cap on a line that is exposed for temp purposes, but probably not.
@Ingi-Natura-Renovatur-Integraits actually the opposite my friend
@@strikerj4810braze? Not a chance. Don't know why? Sorry if that's so. Never braze copper. Never!
You're glad you used shark bites. Just as I indicated as to NEVER, and I mean, NEVER braze copper, you a merchandisers dream. You have no idea what's already on its way to you. No, I'm not remotely involved in the plumbing industry. I do indy CS for two other industries.
If prepped propery, sharkbite is great. That copper or pex has to be clean, dent free, and deburred
Agree shouldn't have an issue with any of those. I personally would worry more about how they age. How long is that O-Ring going to work in a hot unairconditioned space under a house which also gets a bit chilly (just above freezing) in the winter. I personally replumbed with PEX crimp fittings and my family member who was helping was dumbfounded that I could replumb the house in a little over an hour. He complained about crawling around in his place dealing with copper and steel lines for hours and still having problems, even then I told him replace with PEX.
I will have to say however I know of one area where the water pressure was probably WAY above what it should have been. My girlfriend was living outside of Pittsburgh PA when we met and I have no CLUE what the pressure was as I didn't have the tools to check but it blew a hole in the side of a brand new hose. I would guess above 150 PSI but she lived at the bottom of a hill which was around 1000 feet ASL with the water tower located closer to 1325 feet ASL. Actually I am geek enough to do the math and say 9.759 atmospheres of pressure or about 146 PSI based on the rough guesstimates which exclude the height of the water in the tower, lol. Anyway the place didn't have a pressure reducing device on the lines so the water heater's would only last a couple years before springing leaks.
And for anyone wondering about the math, it's REALLY rough but for every 33.3 feet in elevation (or depth when diving) we gain approx. 15 PSI of water pressure. It's one of the reasons why altitude diving is dangerous. At sea level we have approx. 15 PSI of air pushing down on us or 1 ATM (atmosphere) of pressure, in metric this is 1 BAR. When we go up in elevation the air pressure is lower so divers need to spend a bit longer between 10 and 15 feet under water to try and vent off more of the built up nitrogen in our systems before surfacing because instead of 15 PSI of air pressure we may have only 12 PSI of air pressure. It may not seem like much but it's a big difference and can cause a diver to have DCS (decompression sickness also known as the bends) even though the diver seemingly wasn't under water long enough to have that happen and likely wouldn't have if they were diving at sea level. The pressure calculations are also often used by fire fighters dealing with high rises, if a crew is working 20 or 30 stories in the air the truck supplying the water has to increase the pressure so that the water coming out of the hose is within a range that it can be handled while also in a range to give enough flow for the water to do it's job. I couldn't imagine trying to wrestle a fire hose with 400 PSI water coming out of it and if the pressure is closer to 10 PSI there wouldn't be enough flow to do anything. It's kinda the goldilocks problem where the pressure has to be just right.
Damn,are you ever long winded
@@daddygc5814no one read it but I’m glad he feels better after writing that 😂
…Replumbed in a little over an hour?? Yeah Right, what a load of B.S. !!!!!!!!!
@georgedavall9449 yep. Wet wall was about 6 feet from the distribution block with an open cavity underneath. One person at the distribution block and one at the endpoint. Feed a piece of pex down and poke it through the hole. Cut that line and repeat, calling out where each one belongs so they can be marked. The old lines were mostly pvc and cpvc though I did have to cut a piece of steel in one place. When you are just replacing lines it's not that hard to do unless you have to wall fish. That's the beauty of pex and an old house the holes are already there and running the lines doesn't require fittings except at the ends.
Though the pro plumber who replaced the guy across the streets lines with pex and it took him all day. Took his helper all day to cut the old stuff out too... I'm guessing they had to remove 6 inch pieces at a time with all steel lines. I was appalled since that was in a place with a half basement. Now copper and steel will take all day because of all the fittings
Mr. Wakefield how about a video on the quality and compression of hydraulic pro press tools found on amazon?
I like that! Do you have any specific tool in mind?
I was skeptical until watching this 😮 of course you are never going to have even a fraction of these pressures. This was awesome thanks man 👍
This is great content. I'm an electrician, but I have been around some ProPress stuff, and always had questions about anything relying on an o-ring for long periods. This video covers something a little different, but reinforces the idea that proper installation is the key to any of these methods, as I have seen some failures of press fittings on the job.
O-rings have been in use for decades, nearly a 100 years in some places. It's a non-issue.
So why do buy a car with o-rings in the AC connections?
@@davo912 cars aren't made to last as long as house plumbing. repairing a car's ac is almost always going to be cheaper to repair than damage done by a water leak.
@@gs5256 so whats your point? The plumbers are using pro press. and so is he..
@davo912 i don't know is pro press is reliable or not, my point what that comparing cars to the plumbing of a house is not feasible
The best thing about SharkBite is the fact it's a quick repair. Just don't let it freeze. I prefer propress, but from a budget perspective, PEX B with a compressed ring is a great alternative.
That's a good take. What makes you prefer PEX B over PEX A?
PEX B is an inferior product as the fittings restrict water flow. They have to be a smaller diameter so that the pipe can slide over the fitting. With PEX A the pipe is expanded to fit over the full port fitting with no loss in ID.
@@solo8820 Its easy to overcome the restricted flow of Pex B by just going up to 3/4" tubing. Pex with the stainless steel compression bands is so easy to use.
Interesting test. The results may have been skewed due to the small sample size (one of each) and the fast pressure change. I would recommend testing at least three of each and increasing the pressure very slowly instead of pressurizing it so quickly that you cant even see what the burst pressure is with the naked eye. The problem is that the fitting may actually work themselves off slowly over time. I would probably do a few tests increasing the pressure a few hundred psi per second to get an approximate range. Then you can increase the pressure quickly to say 75 precent of the value then instead it by 50 psi a second to give it time to equilibrate. Then do another test where you leave it cost to the pressure for a few days to see if that changes anything. Please also include the regular shark bite for comparison.
Typical resi water pressure should rarely be over 80 PSI so you have like a 10X overhead factor of safety, at least, with any of these fittings. This sorta settles the issue.
90% of what trades men do homeowners can do, the reason we charge what we charge and justify it is the knowledge we have to do the work properly and able to insure our work with warranties. Obviously theres those who overcharge and are just scummy companies but you know why we charge what we do.
Exactly. The homeowner is paying for knowledge. Just the same as if a diy'er took a car to a mechanic to diagnose a problem he can't figure out.
Efficiency is a huge part of it as well. It would take a homeowner ample more time for a simple job. You show up find the problem and fix it properly in 2 hours. A homeowner would have 2 hours researching how to find the problem.
maybe 1 in 100 trades person who actually does proper job, at least in so called western countries, from my experience and what others tell me
Insure and warranty, lol fancy words to make you feel better?
well its a fine line between charging fair and beingb the scummy one. i mean the scummy ones say they charge for what they know not what they do as well. you need to charge enough to stay in buisness but if everyone is getting 500 an hour you arent doing it for 50. the scummy ones drive the going rate up for the honest guys too its called supply and demand. If another plumber can work for half of what you charge and do better work guess what you wind up having to lower your price or starve. but if they are all charging much higher prices the "honest guy" will raise his prices due to "experiance and knowledge" or how bout this just because he can. its human nature
It’s been 18 years since I’ve redone the pipes in my home and from the pipe leaving my well pump all the way through my home is all shark bite style fittings and plastic pex style pipe all shut offs and unions are shark bite style fittings and there has not been a single leak blow out or anything remotely close and we get negative 10 degree weather at the worst end. If done right it’s a very affordable solution. If I had the experience then that I do now maybe I would’ve went another route but I have no complaints. When I do a customers home I try to solder or use crimp fittings but in the end it comes down to budget of the homeowner. In my last 20 years of home improvement experience I’ve had maybe 3 shark bites fail and was called back. I’d say 3 out of a couple thousand jobs isn’t bad but again it’s the homeowners budget that makes the difference I’ll charge less for a sharkbite fix than I would a solder or crimp fix
I have 5 in my basement and no leaks in 10 years
2:45 can cook your own dinner but many still go out to eat.. sometimes it’s about the convenient factor.
Love your videos Roger!
Thanks for watching them!
Most issues that occur with snakebites are caused by improper installation. The margin of error and redundancy is incredible with them.
Awesome experiment that’s detailed and explained. Thanks for this insight! I’m using push to connect for everything. Forget sweating unless I’m doing HVAC
Glad it was helpful!
I'm impressed by all three.
Adding a soldered joint would be good also
He mentioned it (referred to it in a previous video) and said that it exploded the pipe and not the fitting 4:55
If the water pipes in my house get that high in pressure, there are bigger things to worry about. I used sharkbite to replace my sink valves under the sink. Worked great. While i could have soldered new ones.... i just didnt want to. If a plumber came in and pulled sharkbite out of his bag, he would be fired before he started.
Propress does rely on the O ring for the seal, it’s secondary to the mechanical compression of the copper. Silver cymbal tested the fitting with out the o ring and it still didn’t leak with normal pressure.
I feel like the test that's needed is to see how they withstand prolonged vibration. especially the press fittings used in HVAC... I had one fail on a long 7/8" line and the system lost all the refrigerant, which was quite a bit, I was told. the installer said the fitting maker would cover everything, but they still replaced it with a brazed connection.
Another test that would be good is lower pressure like 500-1000 psi and cycle it up and down until failure
Whose home is under 500 psi?? Just do the freeze test.
The fact that it took anywhere near that much pressure to blow those fittings off is very impressive. But the fact that the copper pipe easily took that much pressure with no observable distortion is really impressive.
I recently watched a video where they took the rubber or neoprene seals out of a press coupler and it held normal household pressure without them with no leaking until he hammered on the connection for awhile.
Awesome video!! I would love to see this test with something a little more realistic like multiple water hammers. Would the press fitting or push-connect slowly work their way off the pipe after multiple water hammers?
Not unless it has some serious pressure levels. Those teeth bitr onto those pipes pretty good.
I love how people are throwing out all these suggestions. Folks you will never have pressure remotely this high on water lines I was anti shark bite in walls but this makes me feel better but over time I’m still skeptical so it’s press or solder for me 🤷🏽♂️ but I’m picky I’m sure any of these is a good choice.
Just wanted to comment that I had a failure in my building where Sharkbite was used on chilled water where pressure was considerable higher than city pressure. It was a major flood! I require Propress in our building now. No hot work or Sharkbite allowed.
Every type of piping has it's pros and cons. Doesn't anyone remember galvanized steel for potable use, and it with copper made such a great electrical ground for the dwelling. 😊
Roger thank you!
I used a shark bite valve on a line I couldn't solder before I had pro press it was on a heat line after 5 years it leaked I think it was the expansion and contraction
I do however use shark bite caps sometimes when I rough if new plumbing I'll pop them on the stub outs and when I'm ready for finish pop them off I can reuse them and I don't have to cut off sweat caps that I just throw in the scrap heap
City water is 250psi by me. Sharkbites will hold it. Still not using them when I can solder almost as fast and cheaply.
Guess I can bump up the psi in my house to 1500PSI. No more pressure washer required. Built in!
Great video I put sharkbites on the outside for the washer and it is working perfect 👍 thanks 🙏
1:49 brilliant video editing 😅
Sharkbite used to be made in Alabama but now they are not anymore. But a pro plumber should be soldering it if all possible.
Don't be fooled..Most the plumbers are using pro press inside the houses now
I wonder a cold and hot test contracting and expanding how much of a difference temperature can do to Metals and plastic parts 🤷♂️
Should have tested the push fittings with pex and pvc as well just to see what happens to them. I personally avoid shark bites for interiors and underground use. I'm tired of having to deal with leaks involving improperly installed push connect fittings. Like how hard is it to clean the pipe and deburr/ream it? My main issue with push fittings is the oring will shrink over time or simply wear out from being under pressure. I solder or use press fittings whenever I can.
I’m more interested in long term durability at service pressure rather than factor of safety against overload.
How long before the o-rings deteriorate and slow leaks commence?…
I don’t like the idea of O-ring seals inside finished walls.
However, at accessible and visible locations I see no problem with them.
The best fitting is no fitting so I am thus very fond of expansion Pex A which is also very fast to install and also has the added benefit of freeze overload resistance due to its flexibility.
Cheers!
I use press fittings a lot in my facilities maintenance job so I don’t have to go through the hassle of getting a hot work permit from store management and doing the fire watch bs for my employer.
This is an interesting test but I’d like to see a real life situation test. How well does it hold under bending pressure, or longevity. Kind of hard to do those tests probably but I wouldn’t base my preference off max pressure alone.
Soldering is something plumbers want you to think is stronger than anything. Most house pressure is around 40-60 give or take. Put the stuff on correctly and you wont have issues. If you want to solder pipes get some and practice , its not even remotely difficult.
I'd argue with you on the "its not even remotely difficult" comment about soldering. There is some difficulty heating the pipes up correctly and not burning off all the flux. And getting the solder to melt all around the pipe. Now, anyone can solder household size copper pipes correctly. But most DIY handymen would choose an easier method if available. Like Pex B clamps.
I’m confident with all of ‘em. If you have time and space, solder. If you can spend a ton on tools, press fittings. No time or space, sharks and quicks.
1500 PSI seems to be plenty strong considering the input pressure of 'city water' as long as the joints are all prepped correctly and all the copper flake is removed from the bevel.
As the home owner, I'm ok with using Shark Bites at locations in the basement where I'm transitioning from copper to PEX so that I can do what I want with the PEX up stream, but once it's PEX, I'm using PEX fittings. Probably springing the Dewalt Pro-PEX tool-only during my next bathroom renovation to help me with the shower plumbing- the price seems about right when it's on sale.
Just wand to point out that if the entire system that was installed with faucet . Shark bite fitting , I believe that the faucet fail first , also by code the max pressure for the line is 65psi . So I believe it is can hold over 65psi which is more than what is allowed by code than I believe it is good for quick repair .
Would be interesting to see olive compression fittings with copper, and all the fittings again with PEX.
In the UK mains water can be up to 10 bar/ 145 psi. I lived somewhere at 9 bar for a while, violent water hammer in that place 😂. Everything was soldering, no leaks.
LoL, this popped up in my feed. Just had a SharkBite blow loose in my garage. Flooding it by the garage door. Luckily I caught it right away. 1/2" line going to the Hose bib outside. Popped when the water timer turned off. I just checked the pressure to. 70psi. That was the only Sharkbite on the whole run rest was soldiered. Going to soldier this one after I replace the hose bib. I wonder if these fitting have a cycle life and fatigue over time.
they do, but it may have also been that it was just not installed properly. How long has it been there?
@@RogerWakefield I can say it has not been touched in two years since my that's when my dad died. Probably over a decade more likely. The Stainless Steel teeth were worn down. It was a 90. When I took the other side off with the tool and you could see the teeth were longer on that end. The piece of cooper it blow off was sanded. When I put the replacement one on it looked like it went on the same depth. Don't know if my dad ever took it of over the years though.
How much water pressure in in the copper lines of a normal house.
I'm upgrading my 60 year old bathroom and have capped off the sink tap copper pipes with compression fittings and they too are holding well and with no leaks.
I'd love to see a mock of a pressurized pex b line flowing to multiple fixtures like a toilet, water heater, shower, and sink to see how bad restrictions are with Pex b insert fittings/valves. My apartment was built with all 1/2" pex and sharkbites so no issues with flow but it would look so much better with uniform connections. I know the alternative is to upsize to 3/4" but that's not really and option as a non-owner to start demo on walls for something cosmetic as pipe lines and fittings that are not leaking.
If you got that much pressure then you just need a new place to live, awesome video!
First of all, i love your channel. Long time follower. Stop video at 2min to write this. I have seen your previous videos testing sharkebite fittings. Glad to see a new video using there new "max" fittings, as I do sell this product at my supply chain. (Pace Supply) looking forward to see if sharkebite improved on their design. Also, because I dont recommend this product unless it is need for a "quick fix". Thank you.
What are you thoughts after watching?
I trust solder more than anything else. That being said, I tend to propress in areas that will remain accessible (ie water heater hookups) and solder in tight spots or areas that will not be accessible later.
That's a great way to do it...
You will never beat soldered copper joints 😊
I work on pump systems that use 1” shark bites that routinely see 120 pounds or more for years without failure.
Great test! Loved it.
I love that! What did you like most about it?
@@RogerWakefield I like that you were fair, unbiased and non-judgmental about the testing and results.
seems like this particular topic is a never ending argument from various plumbers and tradesmen and you just put the facts out there and let people make their own decision.
Presentation was excellent and fun to watch!
Cuanto tiempo duran los empaques, se degradan? O hay que cambiar todo en 10 años
I like to put a bit of valve grease on the pipe before installing a shark bite if I have to use them
I think they would’ve lasted a little longer if the pipe was clean with some emery cloth and steel wool. It would help with added more friction.
In the pro-press fitting, does the swaged copper provide a watertight seal with the O-ring to back it up, or is the O-ring the primary water seal? can you test a pro-press fitting without the O-ring?
i had a copper pipe and had white/blue fussy corrsion on the outside. plumber said it was a small pinhole. fixed it with 2 propress and i got charged $500....does that seem excessive? And that was just 2 days after i spent $3200 on a new water heater. you think they would have thrown me a bone on the pipe repair
I'd like to see you test the propress valves viega has double o rings on there ball valves nibco doesn't it would be interested to see what the difference would be
Guys, I encountered such a problem, there is an old soft copper pipe in the house. I had to reconnect to this pipe with a press fitting and continue further with an L pipe. What do you think, can there be problems in the future at the junction of the press fitting and the soft copper pipe? The pipe is soft, bends a little. So far, there is no leakage at these junctions.
good to know thanks
The problem with push to connect is that they will losen overtime and will eventually fail. Time should be the variable not pressure, but then again how could you possibly test the test of time?
Instead of flapping your gums how about posting the research that proves out what your mouth if babbling about the fittings loosening over time..also how about a spelling class as well. IT's Spelled LOOSEN not LOSEN
Read ASSE 1061 push fitting standard. It is tougher than any other connection standard. SharkBite has to be tested at 200deg f, 800psi for 1000 hours.
@@JS-hl1oc Again those test do not test for wear over time. I would NEVER trust a shark bite or a plumber who used them.
Thank you for the video. Is there any data to show how long the orings last in the propress fittings?
If there is, I have not seen it...I would love to know what it is
Can you test variable pressures that the home system would experience? Pressure released then back to holding pressure, repeat.
My concern with these connections was never pressure but time. How does these connections stand up after 10 years of temperature swings every day for 10 years?
And for the record, all of these new connections are for the benefit of the builder, not the home owner. It's quicker & easier for the builder so take anything they say about it with a grain of salt.
what would it takes to remove the sharkbite cap...
I'd like to know which holds up best with a water-hammer condition?
Should have tried compression fittings too. 👍👍👍
Great suggestion!
@@RogerWakefield would be great to see the results
Ok Roger, you have convinced me to not use any of these fittings for high pressure hydraulics. LOL
My coworker who was a licensed plumber was using sharkbite fittings when he was attempting to fix my leak. Our issue is the sharkbite did leak and we tried to release the fitting. They would not come apart. He cleaned it but we could not get it apart to recheck the pipe.
I was skeptical about pro press fittings but you proved that they are reliable if done right.
he isn't much of a plumber is he? The license he holds doesn't mean he any good..millions of people have a drivers license and can't drive safely
We just replumbed my house with Pex A.
As for your comment he was trying to temporarily patch my water line using Pex A to connect with the CPVC in the dead of winter. The CPVC fittings are scarce and not readily available where I live. Now that we went PEX A my house has a new water heater, new angle stops. There is no guarantee I won’t have frozen pipes but I have plenty of tubing/pipe and leftover parts to patch any future leaks. My hose bib was connected with white PEX and never busted and it is under my back deck.
He also fixed the sewage line that broke. Kaufman Broad was the manufacturer of my mobile home and did a poor job. They strapped the sewage line so tight it snapped the pipe. House originally had Quest Pipe. They had Galvanized pipe for a shower riser attached to the brass fixture which was leaking due to corrosion. Everything we did is a significant upgrade.
You should try putting a sealed tube at say 1000 psi and let them sit wit a camera on them and see if they leak or fail after a few weeks
Any press fitting that can handle up to 480 psi of water hammer will be good. I still do not use press fit inside walls.
Did you make that test rig or who did you buy it from? Barbee engineered testing systems? I use to work for the in San Diego building test beaches for like 6 years. Love and miss that job.
My issue with all of these fittings regardless of how they affix. How long are those O-rings going to last before they start leaking. 10 years, 20, 50, 100? I know if I use a solder joint after 100 years that joint is going to still be intact. Even Pex I would trust more than those O-rings as far as longevity. How many houses are out there 50+ years old and still have the original copper or galvy pipe? Now I don't like galvy any more than the next guy but I have seen MANY homes 80+ years old with galvy pipe that are still chooching along. I would never use any of those fittings on a boiler system unless it was on the cold water feed. Just my 2 cents.
The highest water pressure on hot & cold water lines was in a slaughter house when they were running a 150 HP booster pump at night when c!meaning crew would go to lunch. Used to blow out an ice maker several times a year until they installed pressure regulators on lines. Pressure would reach 175#'s !
Pressure test water heater brands.
Like the idea, could be very dangerous, but we have it written down! Thanks for the suggestion
Do this.
Do a pressure test for compression, CPVC and PVC fittings
New subscriber Thank you .
Awesome! What type of content would you like to see?
I wanted to see what the propress at 10x the cost per fitting was going to do, the fact that the fitting blew off tells me everything I need to know. I will continue soldering for the strongest, best quality joints as the solder joint in your test did not fail the actual copper pipe burst.
I’m not a plumber so take it easy.. but what’s the normal PSI range for a home ?
Anywhere between 60-80 but I’ve seen as high as 100
Love the new
Technology
But I still prefer soldering
Do Swagelok next
That’s some serious fittings.
I would like to see all of this as well as braze and solder.
I did it!
I'd Like to see what PEX does with that sort of Pressure
Wow, must have been time and materials. Pex fittings are fast to install, and inexpensive compared to shark bytes.
Sharkbite is great, but i find you pay for the quick installations. if you're doing one or 2 things, not so bad, but if you're doing a decent bit of work than SB is gonna cost 3x the amount i find.
Try Propress copper fittings vs brass fittings.
How is there not some cheap amazon or harbor freight $159 pro press clone tool by now?
Install an RPZ with shark bites, it spins when it discharges 😂
Does the press fitting create cavitation by the deformed pipes ?
Amazing 🤩
After the sharkbite fitting failure causes your house to flood, you can reuse the fitting. Now thats value!
So i probably shouldn't use sharkbites for my R410A refrigeration system...
those press fittings are rated to 15 bar which is 217 psi so obviously it’s gonna blow at 1600 psi, press fittings never give unless fitted incorrectly
I believe the reason the easy press in fittings fail a good amount of the time is 3 parts: 1st, like you said being uneducated. 2nd, is unideal situations like hard to reach or tight spaces that make deburring, cutting straight and installing the fittings difficult. 3rd, i believe is people just not having everything they need to fix the issue properly, so they just make due with what they have by not cutting back as far as they should have, not deburring properly, not using all new fittings, installing things with force cuz they aren’t lining up correctly, etc.