Let's Make A Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 3rd edition Character
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- Taking a look at what I'm pretty sure is supposed to be the 3rd edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay, a mess of hundreds of boxed elements and aggressively anti-consumer game design.
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00:00 Intro
03:58 Race
05:00 Career
05:56 Characteristics
07:04 Misc. Elements
09:48 Mechanics
13:04 Final Thoughts
#ttrpg #warhammer #warhammerfantasy - บันเทิง
The two good things about WFRP 3 ed. were:
1) you could have bought both the box set and the books second-hand for a much lower price at the time, as people would buy them, see them and nope the hell out of the system;
2) the gameplay, when you learned the dice symbols, was quite fun and the rolls introduced a lot of storytelling elements.
That being said: the Star Wars/Genesys version of the mechanic is much better (I do miss the stance dices though), The L5R 5 ed. mechanics I despise.
Agree with this, I just ran an adventure and it was a bit confusing at first, but we all enjoyed it. I got a huge lot for cheap a few months ago.
Yeah, was going to say that this is like the alpha version of the Star Wars/Genesys dice.
Kinda crazy that FFG were into custom dice that far back, seeing as they later made their edition of Legend of the 5 Rings and Star Wars/Genesys, both with their own custom dice sets. I actually really like both, but I totally understand people hating them entirely on principle
Star Wars and Genesys use just next iteration of the WFRP 3 rules and rhey are really fun. Good, well designed games, that ditched most of the Warhammer 3 ed. bloat for action oriented gameplay. They share the mechanics with very few differences.
L5R 5 ed. has diffetent rules and dice from SW/Genesys and isn't as good. It is unpolished, has all the problems of first draft of new mechanics and the way the core book leaves a lot of character options out for the supplements is just greedy. I tried it and I was not impressed. And I am a L5R fan for over 20 years, playing all the editions (even the bad ones ;) ). I bought some books, there is a promise in the game, but is just not as good as L5R 4 ed. or Star Wars.
The custom dice are just standard dice with custom symbols for pass/fail thresholds
In other words, more complicated than they needed to be.
Actually the dice were more complex than that, having a mixture of 7 different symbols for successes, advantages, dramatic effects, and various negative effects all of which could trigger independently. SO, you could conceivably fail your roll, but still get an edge that carried over to the next turn, trigger a dramatic effect, and cause any number of complications. It sounds fiddley, but as soon as you learn the icons it tallies pretty quick, and can make for some very interesting situations that keep things dynamic well beyond the pass/fail of most RPGs. You could, in theory, use regular dice, but then you'd have to be like "Okay on this d10, 1-2 is a -1 to the check, 3 - 4 is +1, 5 - 6 is +2, 7 is an advantage, 8 is two advantages, 9 is a wild symbol, and 10 generates stress." Now do that with about 8+ other dice in the same roll and the symbols become much faster.
Fantasy Flight would also get Dark Heresy, the 40k inquisitorial RPG, transfered to them. Resulting in Dark Heresy 2nd ed.
Piracy has always been a boogeyman used to justify anti-consumer monopolistic taxtocs. Why do you think maps in old modules are non-repro blue?
All the bits aside (you don't need most of the tokens) this system is our table's favourite way to tell a story. Narrative dice are absolutely amazing and naturally give each player spotlight. I've tried going back to pass/fail and it's a chore.
The irony is that putting aside all the anti-consumer, and "it's different' complaints about the product, any reviews I've seen by people who have actually played it have all been glowingly positive expounding on how fun it is. Which also kind of explains the popularity of the FFG star wars systems which this was a predessecor of.
@9:17-.-That sounds like it would be a really cool mechanic for A video game.
Love the 3rd edition WFRP to be honest
Boxed sets also try to sell themselves as the collectible alternative.
Originally, it was cheaper to put a few soft small folders in a box than to make a hardcover book.
This hurt my soul watching. It's like my worst fears of the Genesys/Star Wars/L5R system (Which I know aren't that bad), brought to life. Not to mention that, given how cumbersome a first level (?) character is to make, I couldn't even think how it works to advance classes/careers, which was the most interesting part of the previous 2 editions.
Looking forward to 4th edition.
i'd just use a table showing what numbers on the relevant dice mean what so that you could play them with ordinary dice. it's not like it will be much different, just a little extra time spent looking stuff up. (unless you want to buy the custom dice).
4:45 once per session? That’s very abitrary game design wise unless they specify how long sessions should be
You should start with the Traveller RPG series next.
This edition - so bad.
Your coverage - had me lol
I do like the concept of a 'party sheet'. There is least one other ttrpg employing something like this.
Sadly, memory fails me.
I would be happy to see your D10 mascot again.
Maybe I missed it, but I don't think you mentioned how because the talents are on cards, if multiple characters wanted to use the same talents, you were just out of luck. They just wanted every player to buy their own $100 box set.
@5:51-.-As someone watching these videos in order, but had not played any of these games, I think this was A good change. The number of stats they had before seemed redundant and convoluted. Having some of them be main stats with others being lumped into secondary stats just seems more convenient.
@6:24-.-Also, willpower is conceptually completely different from wisdom, why are you acting like they're interchangeable?
@12:17-.-This distribution hurts me.
We actually totally love Genesys- a RPG that followed StarWars that followed WH3e. Like a grandchild you might say;)
We also played Starwars for years in it is still great!! No wonder that both Genesys and Starwars cont. @ Edge Studio.
Ok but wh3e? I played it once (after already playing Starwars at the time) and I was really wondering how anyone can call that Warhammer;)))
Its good that cubicle7 made 4e based on 1e and 2e
The FFG custom dice systems are all fun in their own way, no matter if they were against big bad piracy or for game design reasons. Hating custom dice on principle is just as stupid as not releasing PDFs because "piracy bad".
While this is easily the worst implementation of FFG dice, everything after was actually incredible. FFG Star Wars is the best Star Wars RPG ever released, and couldn't function with standard "roll vs number" mechanics. The cards in WH3rd were useless though.
Cards are actually great IMO. They allow for variable powers that reflect more beyond pass/fail and are easy to keep track of and read because your spell card is right there in front of you and uses line breaks with the dice icons so you know exactly what your results are at a glance. They are also double sided to go along with the stance meter with a conservative and reckless side, the two often being very different. A fireball spell, for example, may list results on the reckless side that include not only dealing damage to the enemy but also potentially setting other stuff on fire, including yourself, or causing a persistent effect on the monster. The conservative side may allow you to shape the spell to avoid friendly fire, plus inflict a different status effect on the target. The reckless side may deal more damage but require more successes to pull off, while the conservative side may be more consistent but have a longer cooldown before you can use it again.
Also I wish I could play the Star Wars games. I got the starter boxes but the core books are so insanely expensive now.
I actually love Warhammer 3rd edition. I have almost a complete set of the game in fact (truely I shall never own Enemy Within). I openly admit some of the fiddley bits are well and truly unnecessary - career ability and talents could just be written down like feats, and the stance meter could just run across the top of the character sheet or something for example - but the power cards, custom dice, and general mechanics of the game are actually a ton of fun, and very unique as RPGs go. From the GM side, making encounters by combining enemy cards and unique power cards for them to then have right in front of me during play is awesome. Mechanically the stance meter is great, tangibly manipulating the dice pool based on your character's (or monster's) current disposition. Also I love the custom dice pool and the variable results it can provide beyond success/fail. YMMV. It may not be for everyone, and it's certainly not my favorite RPG, but it's fun to collect, and offers a unique RPG experience.
Hey Ziggy. Here for this 👍
And yeah, the MANY, GREED-driven, short-sighted, self-defeating business decisions that TSR, WOTC & Hasbro have made through the decades & are currently making....just.... 🤯
That's such an overengineerd pile of jank components that I'm almost impressed.
Most of my experience with these publishers I recognize from my giant pile of 3.5 dnd expansion books - so I see green ronin and im like; yeah I trust green ronin. They make products that look pretty playable. Then I see Fantasy Flight Games and I just... oh no. Those were the jank ones.
5:35 but you do have the career card, just not the ability one?
I'll be the odd man out. I thoroughly enjoyed the game and found it quite innovative.
As do I. It's not for everyone, but I find that most of the haters who claim it's overengineered or the components are useless have never actually played the game. Admittedly I think FFG may have gone just a bit overboard - talents and career abilities could probably have just been written down, for example, but truthfully it flows pretty damn well when you're actually playing, it just takes a fair amount of set up.
Fantasy Flight LOVES LOVES LOVES custom dice! 😂/😭
4:06 you’re only allowed to play as humans from one place?
No, they added all the Empire provinces in a later expansion. But it never mattered even before that. Reiklander = Human, and you can put that one from wherever.
100 like
Jesus Christ. Talk about over-engineered. I am happy 4th edition is a bit of a return to form. FFG honestly can make really fun games that use all these tokens and whatnot (like Star Wars Armada) but for something like WFRP I just feel that's so needless- the custom dice abilities and such.
I will never understand why anyone buys this companies products, bits, bobs, and do-dads.
I wondered if FATAL was going to get a mention 🙂
I had 1st edition back in the day. I liked it well enough. It was a different flavor than DnD, so it was a nice change of pace. 2nd edition, I can see that, it was similar, but different. I can see how it would appeal to the core market. This one, WTF? Seriously, what were they thinking. This is terrible.
This is a typical fantasy flight game and not even close to the worst example of this style of game from fantasy flight.
The good news is fantasy flight is getting out of the ttrpg scene.
They are shifting to card games.
When you said this game is combining bad elements from designer board games and RPGs, I think you're close to what they were actually doing. This game is not really a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay edition. It's a "Descent-Journeys into Darkness" 1.5 edition. It's taking ideas and mechanics from the 2005 FFG game, and experimenting with them. 2012(when they liquidated the product stock for this line) is when FFG released Descent 2nd Edition- which cleaned up a lot of mechanical choices from this game. WFRP3e is ultimately a failed experiment into how far they could take their Descent system.
Descent 2e itself is a pretty good game, although massively outclassed by Gloomhaven nowadays. I would still be disappointed if I got it expecting a traditional RPG.
I played a character in this boxed turd of an abortion of an RPG once. What an atrocity. I'm not surprised when it was bought by the friend who got it. He usually had more money than brains. And had limited DM sense as well. Kudos for you trying to make a video of this abomination. I'd have just lied and said 3rd edition was never actually brought to market.
I loved this game. You all are missing out. This game was great. It gave you all the bits. The new edition is incomprehensible compared.
Ah, so that's why FF started making all those crap games with cards and proprietary dice...
(TL;DR: liked your video, but disagree on:)
I think people calling 3rd ed a board game doesn't play boardgames much.
It's also playable without the tokens, unless you for some reason can't just write a tracker yourself.
Stuff being on printed cards is a nice visual aid, especially since the system uses a cooldown system for actions.
I agree on the price point and their quest for money etc. In my experience the GM/DM has the books for the system they run (or pdfs, or borrows them etc) and we just bring dice, paper and pens.
Same deal here, except they sold a pack just basically as "Add a fifth player to your game!" and I found that to be stupid, because I would never ask a player to buy one of them (even back in the day) nor did it interest me to pick one up (but I ended doing so anyway for the collection). It didn't add enough.
The dice is awkward, because the mechanic is way faster to translate with the actual dice than a number list, but I get the issue. When we played we just used mine.
Same with char sheets, there are ones that are better made you could just print off the internet.
I am biased though, because I own everything they released for the system except one book.
I'm only up to the point where you show the box set contents laid out, but this game already looks freakin' gross. That's way too much fuckin' shit to put in an RPG. You got pop-out tokens, you got slabs of data, you've got decks of cards that I anticipate are gonna have to be shuffled and drawn from (and they're probably sized weird to make finding sleeves a bitch, unless you want to buy them direct from FFG!), and what appears to be four thin softcover pamphlet books, assumedly with information spread across all four? Holy shit, I get trying to make your game un-piratable even if I think it's a fool's game, but this looks like a nightmare. Give me a set of dice and a book and tell me I'm done! And based on what I vaguely remember about hearing about this edition _and_ what I know about FFG, I just know that dice set is gonna be proprietary and use fucking "narrative symbols" rather than numbers...
Edit: "Then you build your _stance meter_" You build your WHAT
Final edit: There are some neat ideas in this trash pile, but it would be a huge hassle to dig through it to salvage them. The party sheet where you get boons and banes based on what kind of party you are and can "donate" your talents to the group, very cool! The idea that your dice pool changes based on how you're acting, and both sides have positives and negatives, pretty workable! But having to have a physical set of cardboard doobles you assemble to track it just to make it harder to download is so fucking late 2000s-core that it hurts. I don't mind the concept of Genesys' narrative dice mechanic, but I hate having to buy a whole bunch of them direct from the supplier, especially like when you say, they go out of print and become wildly hard to find. Then again, I suppose we do live in the age of 3D printing, maybe that's a possibility (note: i know little about 3D printing so doing it for dice may not work). But I don't wanna hold a hand of cards while I'm roleplaying like I'm playing freaking Magic, I want to have a character sheet, ideas in my head, and a handful of dice to tell me "yes and" or "no but".
Free League loves card sets and special dice and bullet tokens and chat sheet pads but the best part is that you can play Mutant Year Zero with only the basic box and some d6.
The only useful part of their cards we have used are initiative cards. I can draw one and see a physical representation of individual initiative for six blokes and 2-3 DM groups. No doubles, everyone falls in an individual bracket.
I like the design idea of gangs in Blades in the Dark because the gang is an actual thing the players cooperate to build. The gang gives a bonus to training, where you hide, goons to command, resources to prep heists etc.
Coriolis gives you all a ship, paid with a loan. All PCs have a role on the ship. It is a joint project and investment. You sit down and decide what ship it is, and consequently how large your loan is.
Only War for Dark Heresy gives the players a points buy system to make a regiment. The regiment is the basic template all future PCs are built on. Their kit, their training doctrine, their home world, if they are an artillery or line infantry or heavy sentinel recce regiment etc. If they have a bad rep with local Rogue Traders or good standing with navy staff or if they are permanently undersupplied.
You don't like the edition which is fine. However your opinion comes across as so overwhelmingly it distracts from the info you are putting out. People who search for video tutorials likely already have the product and plan to use it. This seems antaganistic towards those people.
This series is entirely based around him sharing his opinion of RPG systems character creation systems. It's not meant to be a tutorial on how to play the game, but what his impressions of the game is. It's a review.