I love what Ade did creating the modern Orange tone but I wish they’d at least offer the OR models again. I had an OR50 and even though it wasn’t close to an OR80, it still had the thick warm clean tones with plenty of fuzzy gain on tap. Only tube amp I could play with the master below 2 and still enjoy.
@@JohanSegeborn Hey Johan How does the Matamp ORST compare to a 72 OR120 or later? Curious as this one on your video sounds pretty thick in the low mids and warm. I'm wondering if the Oranges after 72 are a lil different moving just a lil closer to the Marshall sound but just barely and still sounding like this ORST but maybe not quite as thick or loose. Maybe a lil tighter on the 72 and later? Do you know?
I am totally curious about what difference that the cabinets make. The Heavy magnet 30 watt should be warmer and tighter than the Medium magnet 25 watt speaker, according to what I have read, and the wooden boxes are quite different as I recall from carrying them around. I think I may need an Orange in the array. 🤔
It's fun/interesting, how the visual affects perception. I loved the Marshall to start. When the Orange came in, i didn't like it at all-in comparison to the Marshall. When i started working in another window, and couldn't see which amp was playing, i really liked a certain tone/riff, and turned back and it was the Orange. Still prefer the Marshall, but without the visual reference, it's easier to hear how one amp can be different without being 'inferior.' Good stuff, as always, sir. You continue to rock.
I do this other window thing too on purpose and also mix up the order without trying to see then when I know which one I like the sound of I then look to find out. I preferred the Orange and was surprised by a lot of dumb comments. Some said the Orange sounded thin. lol Wow just wow. I wanted to like the Marshall more too at the beginning but ended up honestly liking the Orange more. So classic.
Great playing, I love the "Just shut up and play" style of the vids. My taste is definitely more Marshall than Orange but each has their place. The Les Paul through that thing is epic.
Let’s face it. The orange will always stand out the most because the fucking thing is orange. Like yeah Marshall’s are recognizable, but you pull up with an orange and people go “what the fuck is that?” Because there isn’t really many mainstream brands I can think of that just decided “fuck it, paint the damn thing orange, it’ll stand out the most”
I prefer the Marshall Les Paul combination. I can definitely hear the sound of each amp on many of the old records we love so much. Both amps have that classic rock sound, cheers on a great education of what the classics sound like. Btw, awesome musicianship from both players.
I just love your shootouts. Both these amps are beautiful and I'd consider myself lucky to have either one. But I go with the Orange. I found the Mashall to be a tad clearer, but the Orange felt more alive to me...you can almost hear more overtones and it sounds like a more unhinged quality. Cheers from Canada.
I'm good with a Les Paul. Paul Kossoff was a great example of how you can utilize one guitar to its fullest extent and not need a second (although I have a dozen different Fenders and Gibsons)
Huge difference. Really prefer the Marshall. Don't recall for sure, but I think this is the first time I didn't care for one of the amps/tones...and I usually like Orange amps.
Orange in this clip has a fuller frequency spectrum, less punch and is a bit fuzzier sounding (sounds like a lot more gain on the settings too). I expected the ORST to be very clean sounding. In fact, it seems to me like my OR120 is cleaner than the ORST. I would be very interested in a comparison between Marshall / Hiwtatt / ORST / OR80 through the same cab. In my experience both Hiwatt and Orange have a much cleaner clean and a much wider frequency response than the Marshall. But in this clip the Marshall seemed to be cleaner and p0unchier than the Orange. Johann, thank you very much for this extremely rare occasion to hear a real ORST!
Many will call out the inferior phase inverter of the Ormat but that and mat mathias approach to output transformer specification are the real magic in it sounding the way it does. It's a derivative of the tweed or Princeton overdrive only with more eq and that is a wonderful thing. To me the answer is an a/B box. Marshall for rhythm and quiet clear parts where the mid scoop of the tone stack and negative feedback crest open space, and orange for searing solid fuzz like a cactus lead and thick plummy textures. Everything covered. All the best mate
Great Fun thanks ever so... I just got a Yamaha thr and this video is a great way to help me nail a couple of my fave tones - the Plexi and the Matamp. Both have very distinctive elements of sound and this has been so very helpful - cheers guys !!
That Strat and the Marshall. To my ears. But the Orange has a feral quality I really like. Seems to go better with the Marshall or maybe a Tele deluxe with 2 humbuckers .
MOUNTAINWITCHTV How would you describe the difference between the Matamp Orange ORST and 72 pics only graphic OR120? I'm very curious as I have a 72 OR120. Also I bet the ORST 200 is a beast ! Curious to how that one sounds too. We need video's! haha!
hmm, would have been nice to compare them with flat EQ settings, since both cabinets run the same speakers, and wood must be similar...I also own a couple of plexis and I really prefer to run a large amount of bass on in, they just roar! by the way, nice channel you have!
The description states that there are not the same speakers - 25w vs 30w pulsonic 55Hz speakers. It would be interesting to hear both through the same speakers.
Both of the amplifiers are great to me. Marshall has its strengths and I would probably choose the Plexi, but Orange Matamp is great to me too. Orange Matamp is cool how it sounds and especially cool how it looks like.
I used a MATAMP to record some Hendrix tunes a couple of months ago. Wah Wah, BB Pre-Amp and a Fuzz Face Mini. I could never sound like Hendrix, but the sound was fantastic. I was able to use the guitar's volume to great effect. Loved it.
I vote Orange with the strat is so perfect. Surprised thats not a common combo. With the LP, the Orange midrange may be too much even for me(I always have my mid on max and my bass and treble on zero-dont hate me, my drummer is ungodly loud, and it sounds very classic rock I think) . Great video
I'm surprised to see a legit OrMat demoed. The tone knobs on those things are wild; the treble/bass knobs contour the rest of the tone, and the Depth knob makes the lower mids explode. At lower gain, there's a really interesting range of tones, but when you crank it like that, it just spits hot fire. Any amp demoed against a Marshall has the problem of expectations; hearing a Marshall, I think "that's what a British guitar amp should sound like," but that's also because over a half century of so many titans using the same relative tonal base. Love a Matamp, love a Hiwatt, appreciate the Marshall always.
Another great comparison video as usual. Really like both the LP and Strat tones this time around. Usually far prefer the LP over the Strat, but not this time. Would still love to see the different heads through the same cab to see how that affects the overall tone. Both are stellar sounding vintage rigs.
Would be very helpful to hear a comparison of the Matamp and a 72 OR120 "pics only" graphic head when Orange supposedly started making heir own amps. I know Adrian Emsley the main designer at Prange today has stated his Holy Grail Orange tone is the 72 "pics only" circuit. Some say they like the Matamp more. I have never seen a comparison. If you ever have the opportunity to borrow some amps and put that together it would be very helpful to Orange amp fans. If anyone could do it it would be you Johan. lol Thanks man! Hey even a comparison to your OR80 would be great as that thing sounds amazing.
Really liking these recent videos. Have you had an opportunity to play any of the old Laney Super group or LBO amps? Would love to see one in this context.
Johan Segeborn Glad to hear !! I have a late 60's 60 watt LBO (pa model) Haven't played it in ages as I no longer have a place to open it up volume wise. Looking forward to your video !!
I prefer the Marshall but that Orange is absolutely incredible. Far less low end but it has a trebly growl that the Marshall doesn't have. It'd be nice to have them both!
Both amps sound great in their own way, And will both do justice to different style's of music. (But to me i still think nothing will beat the sound of a Marshall plexi, even tho i would love to own both)
The Orange sounds like an orange (if you'll pardon my synaesthesia). The Marshall sounds like a giant bulldog that's just been told it's not going for walkies.
The marshall just sounds like something ive heard a million times, the orange sounds cool, sounds like u can get alot cooler sounds from the orange, and better control over the sound
Hi johan , you know CMB amps,? cmb (central musical barcelona) was a spanish copi of orange, and fender in ´70, is tube and other amps in solid state. I recommend you humbly simply for your curiosity, sotty for my english
I just love the difference in the two, Orange was and is still is in a class of itself same as Marshall and Fender, they never tried to emulate the classic amps.Just got a Rockerverb and the first thing I realized is the spongy sweet sustain especially on single notes, is it perfect? nope, but it’s sweet. Marshall is unbeatable at what it does !
Had a TH30 and an OR50. The solo tones on both were sublime. RV/TH30 have similar clean channels and to me, they are the perfect clean channel. If Orange just made a single channel amp and just used that channel, I would still buy it. A compressor and clean boost and it’s blues heaven.
Hi Johan, Angus uses a 100 watt SLP w/ a Master Volume & a Preamp Gain. If you had to guess, would you say this is a "JCM " style mod? Do you have an amp with this mod? Please let me know your thoughts on this. Cheers, Darren.
+Darren Brooks Hi, he has used a bunch of Marshalls troughout the years. Check out SoloDallas TH-cam channel as well as web site. He knows EVERYTHING about AC/DC guitar tone. :-) From his work I've learned that on many records they used JMP 2203 or 2204 which has a master volume stock. Cheers Johan
Geez that Orange sounds thick. I think the Strat sets it off better than the Les Paul which gets bogged down a bit. The Marshall ... well it's a Marshall and does the Marshall thing very nicely indeed. Great comparison, Johan.
Didnt think a marshall would sound scooped to me, but compaired to the orange it does. Ill still take the marshall.sounds warmer. Owned a vintage orange od80 , sounded great, but the repair shop had i more than me. It got so hot tube sockets would burn and parts would unsolder them selfs from the heat. While my mates marshall kept on cranking.
That plexi sounds absolutely killer! Johan have you tried out a blackstar artist 30? Im thinking of buying one and would love to know what you think of them.
Damn Johan, not everyday you can try out an old Matamp! Have you ever tried to push the clean channel of a Rockerverb? Kind of a similar sound, really no distortion in the pre-section untill you hit those valves and transformer. Keep up the good stuff!/Rasmus
If you ever get a chance to do the vintage Orange/Matamp vs Marshall comparison again please use the same cabinet for both heads. This video does a great job (as usual for all your videos) comparing the two, but while the speakers are similar I think it would be very insightful to hear them into the same exact cabinet to isolate the differences in the amp tone. Vintage Orange/Matamp vs Marshall is one of the most interesting yin/yang type comparisons in the amp world.
Is this the same cab you used in your OR80 demo? How similar does the Matamp sound to the OR80? Is the depth knob very similar to the FAC on the OR80? And Boost like the HF Drive? Do the pics on the right match up to the current settings dialed in at that moment in the video? Cheers!
+Deao Satori Hi! This cab is from 1970 with T1281 Greenbacks and the Cab I use with the OR80 is from 1974 with T1217 Greenbacks. The Matamp and OR80 are actually quite different amps. And the pics depict the avtual settings we used. Cheers
In my opinion, Orange has more of a linear frequency response compared to Marshall. For that reason, I prefer to play Orange with G12H magnets, because greenbacks are just to mid rangy for my taste. I have a Ormat 4x12 cab, that had original prerola Greenbacks inside, but it didn't got the whole potencial of the amp. So I put in some really nice sounding Blackbacks inside and it is a huge difference. I'm not sure, but when Matamp was making this incredible amps, there were just G12M to put in. And you can easily blow those speakers with OR120. Probably also with Matamp. Nice video!
Orange with Strat is just amazing! The Les Paul was a bit too muddy for my ears but I'm sure that the ORMAT has the capibility to clean that up with the tone controls.
I don't like that knocky 400 cycle prevalence on the orange but I like a lot of the other aspects of it...a little Carl Martin parametric could take care of that easily
+livingabovethe12th I actually liked that since 400 is a frequency that is difficult to use in other instruments it will pop through the mix low down in the frequencies, making it sound big.
Johann, do you still have access to the OR80? If there is a chance you could make a comparison to the ORST through the same cab, i'd be grateful and all ears :) To my surprize, going by this clip it SEEMS to me that i actually might prefer the OR80/OR120 to the ORST. It would make life a lot easier not feeling the need to hunt down an ORST to compare :)
The Orange sounded good had a cutting tone at times but went bassy a tad at times. The Marshall just grabbed up and took it home. I like it much more. although the Orange was pretty pretty pretty amazing.
I have an ORST and mine doesn't sound at all like in this clip. This amp sounds really thin in the low mids while my ORST has very deep and warm low mids. Mine does have the earlier Pennine transformers which could make a huge difference to the tone though. How are the Depth and Drive controls set for this clip? The second setting on the Depth control is the bypassed setting, which is the only fair setting to be used in a comparison to any other amp, due to the absence of this (VariTone-like) circuit in most amps. I'm also curious to what effect the Drive control has to the sound? I believe the Drive circuit is different in my older version of the amp. Mine doesn't say "Studio" and "Stage" and it switches between four different focus points in the midrange where the Boost control is applied. I would also like to point out that in my opinion the ORST isn't an amp that sounds best cranked, but where it really shines is in the extremely smooth break up into saturation. I'd love to hear a dynamic-clean-into-break-up (not guitar volume controlled) clip in a near future. :) Cheers
Hello David , sorry to bother you , but would you have any clips of your ORST ? I am thinking of Having a clone of an early orange/Matamp 100 watter built and have been looking around for clips , gut shots, schematics, dimensions of orange/matamp chassis so I can have someone build it or build one myself also headshell dimensions. I believe I want the earlier circuit as I prefer more clarity and punch and less dark and fuzzy like some of the later circuits seem to bring . Would you say the earlier circuits would be the way to go? I am a big hi watt guy and own a 76 4 hole dr-504 , and a hi-tone 100 watt clone along with a 72 hi watt cab and 2x12 hi-tone cab both with their Dr-F speakers . So I wanted something kind of in that family but different if that makes sense. Anyways sorry to write you a book but thought I would get your opinion ! Thanks !
@@ethanlamb7324 Hi Ethan. Unfortunately I don't have any clips of my amp, but I guess I can give a rough explanation of how it sounds and why. There are two less-common circuits that are used in these older Orange amps that makes them different from many other amps. First is the baxandall tone stack which provides awesome mid range which sounds super in a band mix, but might sound a bit dull when playing by yourself. The second is the cathodyne phase inverter (same as Fender Princeton). You can read a lot of negative things about this phase inverter on the internet, but in my experience it sounds great. I rebuilt the phase inverter in my Marshall 2061X a couple of times but ended up with the cathodyne as I considered it to be the best sounding. Opinions concerning phase inverters can vary a lot but I think the Princeton has proved itself as a great amp by now. ;) If you build a clone of an Orange Matamp I would highly recommend to skip the Depth (a.k.a. F.A.C.) circuit completely. It's just not a good circuit. It was a crude attempt by Mat Mathias to make the amp as clean as possible by cutting lows and does that in a bad sounding way. Better to just turn down the bass control IMO. These amps also have an internal input gain control which also can be disregarded. The FX loop should also be ignored. It was intended to hook up an external reverb head with short leads. Using it with longer leads for pedals will lead to a huge tone loss. I also recommend not to build anything more than 50 watts. It'll be loud enough, I promise you, haha. Check out the schematic for the Orange GRO 100 here: www.kobra.hr/Schematics/Orange/ It's pretty much identical to my amp. Mine doesn't use NFB though. It's optional if you prefer.
@@Nomdeguerre hey David ! I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed response to my question . Yes I like that these amps use the baxandall tone stack and are able to get a mid boosted sound whereas most amps use passive stacks and are always at least slightly scooped . I don’t mind the darker sound of the mids, I guess when I say dark I mean some of the orange amps I’ve heard clips of from 74 and up have this fuzzy characteristic that I don’t like very well , and believe me I like fuzz pedals but I want my amp to sound like an amp haha. So i thought these early circuits might be the ticket . I like the cathodyne phase inverter too and it is used on the brown prince 6g2 amp I have and I believe was also used on the 5e3 and the tweed super/bandmaster also wasn’t it ? As you said these Amps have proven themselves just a little bit haha :) So you would skip the f.a.c. On this circuit ? From what I understand and correct me if I’m wrong , on this version of the Orange/matamp the fac is early like right after v1 And before the eq I think and on orange has the fac after the eq ? I’ve heard some say that the fac and high frequency/presence boost affect the tone more on the orange Circuits, where on the matamp they don’t seem to do as much except at extreme settings and like you said the fac seems to just make it sound “ tinty “ in one demo I did manage to find , not really useable . I had wondered what the “ drive “ knob on the matamps were and suspected it might be some kind of input gain knob . I’ve also read that the matamp used smaller caps so we’re less bass heavy than the orange or120/80 . So you think building an orange circuit so that he fac and presence knobs did effect the circuit more but with smaller caps would give the less fuzzy , less bassy sound of the matamp but with more function of the controls on the or series ? Is your amp one of the rare early amps that used two kt88s for 100 watts or I guess more like 80 watts ? What got me going down this rabbit hole is I was listening to the cheap trick song “ surrender” and for some got curious about the tone on it. So I started looking into what Rick Nielsen used and found out he bought the first or80 ever made which was a 2x12 combo according to him . I’m not sure if his is one of those 2 kt88 or just the normal 2 el34 production model. Do you by chance know the dimensions of the faceplates and chassis on these amps ? I tried to find a place that sells the chassis and face plates but didn’t have any luck . But I have access to a lot of machine shops And metal fabricators who I think could build this fairly easy , but I’ve had no luck finding dimensions or drawings online . Thank you again for your help and time! Best Ethan
Also on The negative feedback , since your amp doesn’t use it, does it seems to overdrive more than the circuits that use it ? Or atleast transition to overdrive smoother ? Also is your amp a 50 or 100 watt? Thanks again !
@@ethanlamb7324 Yes, the 6G2 and 5E3 both uses the cathodyne phase inverter. I haven't dove into all Orange circuits, but the Depth (F.A.C.) is the very first thing in mine. The early ones doesn't have a presence control. At a second look of the schematic I linked to I see that difference. The last gain stage (shared with the PI tube) has it's cathode tied to ground by a 2K2 resistor with a 40uF bypass cap in mine. The Drive controls' circuit was changed early on. On mine (being #003) it's a four position mid boost. You set the frequency at one of the four positions and boost these mids with the Boost knob. My amp is a 50 watt with two EL34. It's the model ORST. I believe there were only about 150 of these 50 watters made. Matamp still makes headshells for these old amps. In fact, I'm quite sure they are the same size as the smaller modern Orange amps such as the AD30, but the Orange Matamps didn't have a vent on top. If it was me hunting for the Orange Matamp tone I wouldn't even bother building an amp. I'd just get a re-issue Matamp Series 2000. Matamp still makes them I believe. It's the same as the early Oranges but with only three steps on the Depth control and 20 watts which is a lot better since you really never need more power than that. It might be cathode biased though, but building a grid-bias-circuit is a lot simpler than building an entire amp if that's what you want. I'm actually surprised by how my Orange Matamp acts more like an amp with NFB even though it doesn't have it. It just acts "normal" to me in terms of transition into overdrive.
This is as close as I've been to a matamp except for when I've seen SLEEP live. I have to say it's not captured easily by recordings in general. I'm always surprised by the different feel that my tremlord had to anything else. So, yo johan, my man. Maybe you could help out on the difference in feel and what you think is lost in translation during the recording of this amp. Very few are as highly qualified in my opinion.
Please tell me that he plays at 5-24, 5-53, 6-15, 6-45. Often heard it on other videos, I love these riffs. Thank you so much for the video with the legendary amplifiers !!! Hello from Russia)
Orange probably sounded so bad because of "direct coupled cathodyne phase inverter" to previous gain stage. 390k resistance in ECC83 anode load is too much but necessary for direct coupling. Later models with AC coupling phase-inv. sounded much better.
Orange sounds so vintage but the plexi has a incredible roar to it!
+Skylar Coy Thanks Skylar!
Agreed! That Marshall has a ton of kerrang!
When I heard that first Marshall clip I thought "Surely nothing can beat that!". And I was right.
I bet they would sound massive layered together. The Marshall handling the lows and highs, and Orange filling in the mids.
I love what Ade did creating the modern Orange tone but I wish they’d at least offer the OR models again. I had an OR50 and even though it wasn’t close to an OR80, it still had the thick warm clean tones with plenty of fuzzy gain on tap. Only tube amp I could play with the master below 2 and still enjoy.
The Orange sounds incredible ! :D
+Delta Flows Thanks, I agree
@@JohanSegeborn Hey Johan How does the Matamp ORST compare to a 72 OR120 or later? Curious as this one on your video sounds pretty thick in the low mids and warm. I'm wondering if the Oranges after 72 are a lil different moving just a lil closer to the Marshall sound but just barely and still sounding like this ORST but maybe not quite as thick or loose. Maybe a lil tighter on the 72 and later? Do you know?
Wow!!!!I’ve never heard one of those before
The nastiness he digs up with the Les Paul and Orange combo is... unsettling.
I think the orange amp lives in a very lonely place in the spectrum of amp tone.
That is an excellent way to put that!
I am totally curious about what difference that the cabinets make. The Heavy magnet 30 watt should be warmer and tighter than the Medium magnet 25 watt speaker, according to what I have read, and the wooden boxes are quite different as I recall from carrying them around. I think I may need an Orange in the array. 🤔
They say it's lonely at the top 😅
@@AuntAlnico4 it certainly is...
I watch this videos with headphones... my wife said that I'm gonna get deaf. I told her I rather go blind... for a graphic designer this is odd. LOL
Nice orange grit and grind. A guitarist's dream, but an engineer's nightmare!
+Alistair Kinnear Hahaha ;-)
Why?
I bet the Plexi and the Orange mixed together would just be top shelf! always awesome! work Johan!
These amps are great, but Johan standing at that window is just hilarious.
Ah man, you rule.
Hahaha! ;-)
The classic Les Paul-Marshall-Combo simply wins this one for me - there are just some killer tones. cheerz \\m//
+JacknCocaine Cheers! :-)
Those both sound amazing
Getting real Paul Kossoff vibes from the Orange. Nice bluesy and not overly distorted sound with the Les Paul. Nice video Johan, cheers!
+Tuomas Raatikainen Cheers! :-)
Tuomas Raatikainen agreed, sounds like walk in my shadow. By the way my 8x great grandfather was named Raatikainen!
Lars Sig you're joking! It's quite a rare name here in Finland which makes this all the more amazing :D
It's fun/interesting, how the visual affects perception. I loved the Marshall to start. When the Orange came in, i didn't like it at all-in comparison to the Marshall. When i started working in another window, and couldn't see which amp was playing, i really liked a certain tone/riff, and turned back and it was the Orange. Still prefer the Marshall, but without the visual reference, it's easier to hear how one amp can be different without being 'inferior.'
Good stuff, as always, sir. You continue to rock.
+CentaurusRelax314 Thanks :-) yeah and the order in which the amps and riffs are played determines very much how the sound.
I do this other window thing too on purpose and also mix up the order without trying to see then when I know which one I like the sound of I then look to find out. I preferred the Orange and was surprised by a lot of dumb comments. Some said the Orange sounded thin. lol Wow just wow. I wanted to like the Marshall more too at the beginning but ended up honestly liking the Orange more. So classic.
I understand how some people would rather have the Orange but I'd much rather have the Plexi.
3:23
Yup put in the car I'm going home with it.
Legit Johan I was like GOD DAMN
+L2GG Thanks, glad to hear it!
Great playing, I love the "Just shut up and play" style of the vids. My taste is definitely more Marshall than Orange but each has their place. The Les Paul through that thing is epic.
+TheVimFuego Thanks, glad to hear it! :-)
Let’s face it. The orange will always stand out the most because the fucking thing is orange.
Like yeah Marshall’s are recognizable, but you pull up with an orange and people go “what the fuck is that?” Because there isn’t really many mainstream brands I can think of that just decided “fuck it, paint the damn thing orange, it’ll stand out the most”
I really dig that orange, keep the videos coming Johan, I love seeing new videos from you pop up. Cheers!
+XMatthewXmassacreX Thanks my friend! Cheers
Would be interesting to hear the JMP through the Orange Cab and the ORST through the Marshall Cab as a comparison.
+Richard Hollis Yeah the cabs/speakers accounts for most of the difference.
I prefer the Marshall Les Paul combination. I can definitely hear the sound of each amp on many of the old records we love so much. Both amps have that classic rock sound, cheers on a great education of what the classics sound like. Btw, awesome musicianship from both players.
the orange sounds amazing, now I really want one
+Ben Tyreman Thanks, it does indeed!
You have a place to play it on that volume level? And exactly that cab. Other amps are not gonna the same)
I just love your shootouts. Both these amps are beautiful and I'd consider myself lucky to have either one. But I go with the Orange. I found the Mashall to be a tad clearer, but the Orange felt more alive to me...you can almost hear more overtones and it sounds like a more unhinged quality. Cheers from Canada.
+ferox965 Glad to hear it! Cheers from Gothenburg Sweden!
Yeah, the orange had tons of attitude which I love, and also seems more mid focused, which I like
2:20 MAN!! What a sound! Gotta love the openness of single coils! That's why you gotta have 2 guitars. No excuses!
3:55 EVEN BETTER!
Luka S 5:55
+Luka S Thanks :-)
Luka S Only 2 Guitars ! Never I say!
I'm good with a Les Paul. Paul Kossoff was a great example of how you can utilize one guitar to its fullest extent and not need a second (although I have a dozen different Fenders and Gibsons)
I've got that Orange Matamp and Cab. I also have a Marshall Haze 15 head. Both all tube and great for different reasons.
When you locked yourself out, but still record that intro! My man haha
Huge difference. Really prefer the Marshall. Don't recall for sure, but I think this is the first time I didn't care for one of the amps/tones...and I usually like Orange amps.
+Rick McCargar Thanks, I actually preferred the Orange
Orange in this clip has a fuller frequency spectrum, less punch and is a bit fuzzier sounding (sounds like a lot more gain on the settings too). I expected the ORST to be very clean sounding. In fact, it seems to me like my OR120 is cleaner than the ORST.
I would be very interested in a comparison between Marshall / Hiwtatt / ORST / OR80 through the same cab. In my experience both Hiwatt and Orange have a much cleaner clean and a much wider frequency response than the Marshall. But in this clip the Marshall seemed to be cleaner and p0unchier than the Orange.
Johann, thank you very much for this extremely rare occasion to hear a real ORST!
The Marshall sounds like it would be more versatile but the orange has a lot of unique character, a studio secret weapon
i’d love to hear the tone of the Orange with the depth set to it’s leftmost position. the further you turn it right, the less depth there is
100% agree. I wouldn't have set the Orange up the way they did here.
@@AnodyneHipsterInfluencer do you have one?
if so, how would you set it?
marshall sound so classic, but the orange is so vintage.
orange for me please.
+Kaiser Bach I have never played an amp that is fuzzy but still firm and punchy like that
Many will call out the inferior phase inverter of the Ormat but that and mat mathias approach to output transformer specification are the real magic in it sounding the way it does. It's a derivative of the tweed or Princeton overdrive only with more eq and that is a wonderful thing. To me the answer is an a/B box. Marshall for rhythm and quiet clear parts where the mid scoop of the tone stack and negative feedback crest open space, and orange for searing solid fuzz like a cactus lead and thick plummy textures. Everything covered. All the best mate
+PoJoWo Yeah that covers a lot of ground. Cheers my friend!
Great Fun thanks ever so... I just got a Yamaha thr and this video is a great way to help me nail a couple of my fave tones - the Plexi and the Matamp. Both have very distinctive elements of sound and this has been so very helpful - cheers guys !!
i love both, cant decide. Love the brightness and clarity from Marshall, but I also love the grit and low mids from Orange.
I could never pick one over the other. They both sound biblical !
Lets Go !!!
+Damon B Thanks Damon :-)
Riff @ 5:53 ? Who can help?
Ooh my, that JMP/cab/LP sounds soooo good. It that sound I hear in my head when I think of great rock tone :-). Thanks.
+Thomas Kjærgaard Thanks Thomas :-)
That Strat and the Marshall. To my ears. But the Orange has a feral quality I really like. Seems to go better with the Marshall or maybe a Tele deluxe with 2 humbuckers .
Never realized Orange had such a long history. .. just didn't see the older Oranges in the states... nice.
+Tricko thanks :-)
Once again a great comparison.The Marshall is my pick Johan.
+rendell Gordon Thanks Rendell!
Yessa.. I had 2 ORST's already in my hands.. a friend has also a ORST 200! Beat Club galore with these.
+MOUNTAINWITCHTV Cheers! :-)
MOUNTAINWITCHTV How would you describe the difference between the Matamp Orange ORST and 72 pics only graphic OR120? I'm very curious as I have a 72 OR120. Also I bet the ORST 200 is a beast ! Curious to how that one sounds too. We need video's! haha!
@@HiHello-ku1fl not a great video but heres my ormat 200 before the power transformer shit the bed th-cam.com/video/9czu5JAa-R0/w-d-xo.html
hmm, would have been nice to compare them with flat EQ settings, since both cabinets run the same speakers, and wood must be similar...I also own a couple of plexis and I really prefer to run a large amount of bass on in, they just roar! by the way, nice channel you have!
+Lima Marco Thanks Lima! :-)
The description states that there are not the same speakers - 25w vs 30w pulsonic 55Hz speakers. It would be interesting to hear both through the same speakers.
3:24 Awesome !!
+Max Max Thanks! :-)
Both of the amplifiers are great to me. Marshall has its strengths and I would probably choose the Plexi, but Orange Matamp is great to me too. Orange Matamp is cool how it sounds and especially cool how it looks like.
I used a MATAMP to record some Hendrix tunes a couple of months ago. Wah Wah, BB Pre-Amp and a Fuzz Face Mini. I could never sound like Hendrix, but the sound was fantastic. I was able to use the guitar's volume to great effect. Loved it.
+hachewie Cool amp indeed
I vote Orange with the strat is so perfect. Surprised thats not a common combo. With the LP, the Orange midrange may be too much even for me(I always have my mid on max and my bass and treble on zero-dont hate me, my drummer is ungodly loud, and it sounds very classic rock I think) .
Great video
That Orange feedback? OH MY GOD!
+Lukáš Rybníček Cheers :-)
Marshall Plexi all the way this time :) I lOVE that Strat playing!!
+StealthParrot Thanks, Simon is an amazing player indeed!
The Marshall is Clearly the winner Here ! The Orange sounds like a Circuit designed for a Radio to me. the Marshall Vastly out inspires !!
I'm surprised to see a legit OrMat demoed. The tone knobs on those things are wild; the treble/bass knobs contour the rest of the tone, and the Depth knob makes the lower mids explode. At lower gain, there's a really interesting range of tones, but when you crank it like that, it just spits hot fire.
Any amp demoed against a Marshall has the problem of expectations; hearing a Marshall, I think "that's what a British guitar amp should sound like," but that's also because over a half century of so many titans using the same relative tonal base. Love a Matamp, love a Hiwatt, appreciate the Marshall always.
Another great comparison video as usual. Really like both the LP and Strat tones this time around. Usually far prefer the LP over the Strat, but not this time. Would still love to see the different heads through the same cab to see how that affects the overall tone. Both are stellar sounding vintage rigs.
+jcoulter43 Thanks!
Would be very helpful to hear a comparison of the Matamp and a 72 OR120 "pics only" graphic head when Orange supposedly started making heir own amps. I know Adrian Emsley the main designer at Prange today has stated his Holy Grail Orange tone is the 72 "pics only" circuit. Some say they like the Matamp more. I have never seen a comparison. If you ever have the opportunity to borrow some amps and put that together it would be very helpful to Orange amp fans. If anyone could do it it would be you Johan. lol Thanks man! Hey even a comparison to your OR80 would be great as that thing sounds amazing.
Really liking these recent videos. Have you had an opportunity to play any of the old Laney Super group or LBO amps? Would love to see one in this context.
+Jeff Loucks Glad to hear it, Jeff. A Supergroup is coming up next week! Cheers Johan
Johan Segeborn Glad to hear !! I have a late 60's 60 watt LBO (pa model) Haven't played it in ages as I no longer have a place to open it up volume wise. Looking forward to your video !!
That dude knows what to do with a strat
+Serge Savoie Indeed :-)
I prefer the Marshall but that Orange is absolutely incredible. Far less low end but it has a trebly growl that the Marshall doesn't have. It'd be nice to have them both!
+Dagger 323 Thanks!
Both amps sound great in their own way,
And will both do justice to different style's of music.
(But to me i still think nothing will beat the sound of a Marshall plexi, even tho i would love to own both)
That Strat-Orange combo kicks so much ass!
I have a Marshall cabinet & Artist head (3203) which I like very much, but I could use a Orange head & cabinet. Now which one ? Time will only tell.
Gonna go with the Matamp on this one, just by a hair, and thats all because I can hear it with a fuzz pedal infront of it
+KaisDragonBlade Cheers
The Orange sounds like an orange (if you'll pardon my synaesthesia).
The Marshall sounds like a giant bulldog that's just been told it's not going for walkies.
+fishy paw :-)
The marshall just sounds like something ive heard a million times, the orange sounds cool, sounds like u can get alot cooler sounds from the orange, and better control over the sound
I’m a Fender guy because I like the cleans that you can get with 6L6’s.
I do love that Marshall sound though and prefer it to the Orange.
Where do you get all these vintage amps?
Most of them belongs to friends actually
Johan grows them in his backyard
I'm a Matamp fan myself, I play one. For me the amp has the girth a Marshall doesn't. Both amps sound great though.
+Brett Goodchild Thanks Brett!
hi sereg
orange look cooll..but the marshall tone is ommgggg...so good
+eshar waiss Thanks :-)
Hi johan
, you know CMB amps,? cmb (central musical barcelona) was a spanish copi of orange, and fender in ´70, is tube and other amps in solid state. I recommend you humbly simply for your curiosity, sotty for my english
I just love the difference in the two, Orange was and is still is in a class of itself same as Marshall and Fender, they never tried to emulate the classic amps.Just got a Rockerverb and the first thing I realized is the spongy sweet sustain especially on single notes, is it perfect? nope, but it’s sweet. Marshall is unbeatable at what it does !
Gotta love them for what they do best
Had a TH30 and an OR50. The solo tones on both were sublime. RV/TH30 have similar clean channels and to me, they are the perfect clean channel. If Orange just made a single channel amp and just used that channel, I would still buy it. A compressor and clean boost and it’s blues heaven.
nothing and I mean nothing beats a Marshall Plexi and Greenback speakers for hard rock music!
+Joe Amato Indeed, Cheers!
Hi Johan, Angus uses a 100 watt SLP w/ a Master Volume & a Preamp Gain. If you had to guess, would you say this is a "JCM " style mod? Do you have an amp with this mod? Please let me know your thoughts on this. Cheers, Darren.
+Darren Brooks Hi, he has used a bunch of Marshalls troughout the years. Check out SoloDallas TH-cam channel as well as web site. He knows EVERYTHING about AC/DC guitar tone. :-) From his work I've learned that on many records they used JMP 2203 or 2204 which has a master volume stock. Cheers Johan
Thanks Johan! Love your work, and looking forward to your website! D
Cool sounds!! Orange has a midrange character where the Plexi has more clarity and its more open to my opinion/wider frequency range.
+LIVEWIRE 240 Thanks!
I have both Orange OR120 and Marshall Plexi 1959 but I actually think I prefer the Orange.
Grymt, den där Orangen låter för jäkla gött och eget! =)
Geez that Orange sounds thick. I think the Strat sets it off better than the Les Paul which gets bogged down a bit. The Marshall ... well it's a Marshall and does the Marshall thing very nicely indeed. Great comparison, Johan.
Didnt think a marshall would sound scooped to me, but compaired to the orange it does. Ill still take the marshall.sounds warmer. Owned a vintage orange od80 , sounded great, but the repair shop had i more than me. It got so hot tube sockets would burn and parts would unsolder them selfs from the heat. While my mates marshall kept on cranking.
That plexi sounds absolutely killer! Johan have you tried out a blackstar artist 30? Im thinking of buying one and would love to know what you think of them.
+John Card Thanks John, haven't played those yet Im afraid.
Marshall Plexi with les paul sounds as the King of amps, bas this orange with strat is really good.
Damn Johan, not everyday you can try out an old Matamp! Have you ever tried to push the clean channel of a Rockerverb? Kind of a similar sound, really no distortion in the pre-section untill you hit those valves and transformer. Keep up the good stuff!/Rasmus
+Lovzi Thanks man, I have a Rockerverb in a previous comparison here on the channel. Cheers Johan
A marshall with a les paul is the definitive "tone of rock" but if you're playing an Orange, you're not trying to sound like the well beaten path.
Yeah Marshall is the template but also bit of a cliche
If you ever get a chance to do the vintage Orange/Matamp vs Marshall comparison again please use the same cabinet for both heads. This video does a great job (as usual for all your videos) comparing the two, but while the speakers are similar I think it would be very insightful to hear them into the same exact cabinet to isolate the differences in the amp tone. Vintage Orange/Matamp vs Marshall is one of the most interesting yin/yang type comparisons in the amp world.
Thanks! Yeah the cabs makes as much or more difference than the amps. I'll keep it in mind! Cheers Johan
@@JohanSegeborn6 years and still wishing for this 😂
Oh man...that Marshall just has a soul. Such vocal-like quality that, in my opinion, the Orange is not delivering -great grit though. THANKS JOHAN!!
+Nick DeMayo Thanks Nick!
Is this the same cab you used in your OR80 demo? How similar does the Matamp sound to the OR80? Is the depth knob very similar to the FAC on the OR80? And Boost like the HF Drive? Do the pics on the right match up to the current settings dialed in at that moment in the video? Cheers!
+Deao Satori Hi! This cab is from 1970 with T1281 Greenbacks and the Cab I use with the OR80 is from 1974 with T1217 Greenbacks. The Matamp and OR80 are actually quite different amps. And the pics depict the avtual settings we used. Cheers
Cool. I have T1217 in my '74 Orange cabinet. Did you play around with turning the dept knob to the left at all? Thank you for all your videos!
+Deao Satori Thanks, we turned the knobs until we got a firm enough tone. Many other settings were to fuzzy for us
Damn that Marshall sounds good. Just has a much warmer tone in my opinion.
Who is the other guy by the way? I like when you play the LP and he plays the strat. Good combination.
+jordan graf Glad to hear it! That's Simon Karlsson.
In my opinion, Orange has more of a linear frequency response compared to Marshall. For that reason, I prefer to play Orange with G12H magnets, because greenbacks are just to mid rangy for my taste. I have a Ormat 4x12 cab, that had original prerola Greenbacks inside, but it didn't got the whole potencial of the amp. So I put in some really nice sounding Blackbacks inside and it is a huge difference. I'm not sure, but when Matamp was making this incredible amps, there were just G12M to put in. And you can easily blow those speakers with OR120. Probably also with Matamp. Nice video!
+vitja b Thanks :-) G12Hs were actually available from 66-67. Cheers Johan
Johan, why do you always have the bass set to zero when doing these videos?
+mattblackmick At full volume there is enough bass from the cab. Adding more makes it muddy.
Orange with Strat is just amazing! The Les Paul was a bit too muddy for my ears but I'm sure that the ORMAT has the capibility to clean that up with the tone controls.
+andrás schóber Thanks András!
Love them both!
+kroszo thanks!
The Marshall's a bit like "Bam,in there"! the Orange is just "not so fast I got this"! both utterly cool, Thanks!
+sarcoptic Thanks :-)
Biggest difference here are the cabs and speakers being mic’d.
That Orange can sound exactly like that Marshall through the same cab.
I don't like that knocky 400 cycle prevalence on the orange but I like a lot of the other aspects of it...a little Carl Martin parametric could take care of that easily
+livingabovethe12th I actually liked that since 400 is a frequency that is difficult to use in other instruments it will pop through the mix low down in the frequencies, making it sound big.
Johann, do you still have access to the OR80? If there is a chance you could make a comparison to the ORST through the same cab, i'd be grateful and all ears :)
To my surprize, going by this clip it SEEMS to me that i actually might prefer the OR80/OR120 to the ORST. It would make life a lot easier not feeling the need to hunt down an ORST to compare :)
+VintageCharlie Thanks, I'll keep it in mind :-)
The Orange sounded good had a cutting tone at times but went bassy a tad at times. The Marshall just grabbed up and took it home. I like it much more. although the Orange was pretty pretty pretty amazing.
+Mark B Thanks Mark
I have an ORST and mine doesn't sound at all like in this clip. This amp sounds really thin in the low mids while my ORST has very deep and warm low mids. Mine does have the earlier Pennine transformers which could make a huge difference to the tone though.
How are the Depth and Drive controls set for this clip?
The second setting on the Depth control is the bypassed setting, which is the only fair setting to be used in a comparison to any other amp, due to the absence of this (VariTone-like) circuit in most amps.
I'm also curious to what effect the Drive control has to the sound?
I believe the Drive circuit is different in my older version of the amp. Mine doesn't say "Studio" and "Stage" and it switches between four different focus points in the midrange where the Boost control is applied.
I would also like to point out that in my opinion the ORST isn't an amp that sounds best cranked, but where it really shines is in the extremely smooth break up into saturation.
I'd love to hear a dynamic-clean-into-break-up (not guitar volume controlled) clip in a near future. :)
Cheers
Hello David , sorry to bother you , but would you have any clips of your ORST ? I am thinking of Having a clone of an early orange/Matamp 100 watter built and have been looking around for clips , gut shots, schematics, dimensions of orange/matamp chassis so I can have someone build it or build one myself also headshell dimensions. I believe I want the earlier circuit as I prefer more clarity and punch and less dark and fuzzy like some of the later circuits seem to bring . Would you say the earlier circuits would be the way to go? I am a big hi watt guy and own a 76 4 hole dr-504 , and a hi-tone 100 watt clone along with a 72 hi watt cab and 2x12 hi-tone cab both with their Dr-F speakers . So I wanted something kind of in that family but different if that makes sense. Anyways sorry to write you a book but thought I would get your opinion ! Thanks !
@@ethanlamb7324 Hi Ethan. Unfortunately I don't have any clips of my amp, but I guess I can give a rough explanation of how it sounds and why. There are two less-common circuits that are used in these older Orange amps that makes them different from many other amps. First is the baxandall tone stack which provides awesome mid range which sounds super in a band mix, but might sound a bit dull when playing by yourself. The second is the cathodyne phase inverter (same as Fender Princeton). You can read a lot of negative things about this phase inverter on the internet, but in my experience it sounds great. I rebuilt the phase inverter in my Marshall 2061X a couple of times but ended up with the cathodyne as I considered it to be the best sounding. Opinions concerning phase inverters can vary a lot but I think the Princeton has proved itself as a great amp by now. ;)
If you build a clone of an Orange Matamp I would highly recommend to skip the Depth (a.k.a. F.A.C.) circuit completely. It's just not a good circuit. It was a crude attempt by Mat Mathias to make the amp as clean as possible by cutting lows and does that in a bad sounding way. Better to just turn down the bass control IMO. These amps also have an internal input gain control which also can be disregarded. The FX loop should also be ignored. It was intended to hook up an external reverb head with short leads. Using it with longer leads for pedals will lead to a huge tone loss.
I also recommend not to build anything more than 50 watts. It'll be loud enough, I promise you, haha.
Check out the schematic for the Orange GRO 100 here: www.kobra.hr/Schematics/Orange/
It's pretty much identical to my amp. Mine doesn't use NFB though. It's optional if you prefer.
@@Nomdeguerre hey David ! I appreciate you taking the time to write such a detailed response to my question . Yes I like that these amps use the baxandall tone stack and are able to get a mid boosted sound whereas most amps use passive stacks and are always at least slightly scooped . I don’t mind the darker sound of the mids, I guess when I say dark I mean some of the orange amps I’ve heard clips of from 74 and up have this fuzzy characteristic that I don’t like very well , and believe me I like fuzz pedals but I want my amp to sound like an amp haha. So i thought these early circuits might be the ticket . I like the cathodyne phase inverter too and it is used on the brown prince 6g2 amp I have and I believe was also used on the 5e3 and the tweed super/bandmaster also wasn’t it ? As you said these Amps have proven themselves just a little bit haha :)
So you would skip the f.a.c. On this circuit ? From what I understand and correct me if I’m wrong , on this version of the Orange/matamp the fac is early like right after v1 And before the eq I think and on orange has the fac after the eq ? I’ve heard some say that the fac and high frequency/presence boost affect the tone more on the orange Circuits, where on the matamp they don’t seem to do as much except at extreme settings and like you said the fac seems to just make it sound “ tinty “ in one demo I did manage to find , not really useable . I had wondered what the “ drive “ knob on the matamps were and suspected it might be some kind of input gain knob . I’ve also read that the matamp used smaller caps so we’re less bass heavy than the orange or120/80 . So you think building an orange circuit so that he fac and presence knobs did effect the circuit more but with smaller caps would give the less fuzzy , less bassy sound of the matamp but with more function of the controls on the or series ? Is your amp one of the rare early amps that used two kt88s for 100 watts or I guess more like 80 watts ? What got me going down this rabbit hole is I was listening to the cheap trick song “ surrender” and for some got curious about the tone on it. So I started looking into what Rick Nielsen used and found out he bought the first or80 ever made which was a 2x12 combo according to him . I’m not sure if his is one of those 2 kt88 or just the normal 2 el34 production model.
Do you by chance know the dimensions of the faceplates and chassis on these amps ? I tried to find a place that sells the chassis and face plates but didn’t have any luck . But I have access to a lot of machine shops And metal fabricators who I think could build this fairly easy , but I’ve had no luck finding dimensions or drawings online .
Thank you again for your help and time!
Best
Ethan
Also on The negative feedback , since your amp doesn’t use it, does it seems to overdrive more than the circuits that use it ? Or atleast transition to overdrive smoother ? Also is your amp a 50 or 100 watt?
Thanks again !
@@ethanlamb7324 Yes, the 6G2 and 5E3 both uses the cathodyne phase inverter.
I haven't dove into all Orange circuits, but the Depth (F.A.C.) is the very first thing in mine. The early ones doesn't have a presence control. At a second look of the schematic I linked to I see that difference. The last gain stage (shared with the PI tube) has it's cathode tied to ground by a 2K2 resistor with a 40uF bypass cap in mine. The Drive controls' circuit was changed early on. On mine (being #003) it's a four position mid boost. You set the frequency at one of the four positions and boost these mids with the Boost knob.
My amp is a 50 watt with two EL34. It's the model ORST. I believe there were only about 150 of these 50 watters made.
Matamp still makes headshells for these old amps. In fact, I'm quite sure they are the same size as the smaller modern Orange amps such as the AD30, but the Orange Matamps didn't have a vent on top.
If it was me hunting for the Orange Matamp tone I wouldn't even bother building an amp. I'd just get a re-issue Matamp Series 2000. Matamp still makes them I believe. It's the same as the early Oranges but with only three steps on the Depth control and 20 watts which is a lot better since you really never need more power than that. It might be cathode biased though, but building a grid-bias-circuit is a lot simpler than building an entire amp if that's what you want.
I'm actually surprised by how my Orange Matamp acts more like an amp with NFB even though it doesn't have it. It just acts "normal" to me in terms of transition into overdrive.
This is as close as I've been to a matamp except for when I've seen SLEEP live. I have to say it's not captured easily by recordings in general. I'm always surprised by the different feel that my tremlord had to anything else. So, yo johan, my man. Maybe you could help out on the difference in feel and what you think is lost in translation during the recording of this amp. Very few are as highly qualified in my opinion.
I reckon the orange and hiwatt in stereo would sound killer
Please tell me that he plays at 5-24, 5-53, 6-15, 6-45. Often heard it on other videos, I love these riffs. Thank you so much for the video with the legendary amplifiers !!! Hello from Russia)
I like the way the Marshall Plexi amp sounds and I think the 🍊amp head sounds a little nasally, kind of dull.
Orange probably sounded so bad because of "direct coupled cathodyne phase inverter" to previous gain stage. 390k resistance in ECC83 anode load is too much but necessary for direct coupling. Later models with AC coupling phase-inv. sounded much better.
+Sven Muhvic I really liked the sound of the Orange
Anyone recognize the riff at at 1:51?
If like fender, Marshall made a tweed version of the plexi, it would resemble the orange IMO
Marshall for me. Every time.
+wammbarro Cheers!