This video was so overdue on the internet. So many reviewers do a good job providing information, yet details about what features that seem cool and high-end become useless in the real world from someone who has been in a combat zone, are sometimes if not most times, missing. Granted, the real world comes in many varieties of theater from open military engagements, to police SWAT, to private citizen. Some of what he mentions such as battery life due to renostats being moved while in motion may not apply depending on your end use cases, role and what you are doing. Never the less, the details and scenarios he introduces paints a much broader picture by which people have more objective information to make buying decisions with. And I think that really was his goal or at least part of it. Excellent job, well done!
What a great effort. Thank you so much for you and who you are both as a true Green Beret teaching and as Carl in Christ. We are lucky to be able to learn from you..
Thanks for taking the time and effort for a comprehensive review. When people ask me about why I use the LPVO's I do, or the differences, I link them this video.
Great work done here and thank you this is the most Indepth LPVO video I have ever seen. You spent a lot of time and effort to bring this to us so Thank you again.
Wow. Excellent video Karl. Thanks for an honest review. That story about prying your rifle from the frozen mud sounded like a grim time. Thanks again SGM
"I'm having dreams about mounting and remounting scopes" LOL funny stuff right there. I bet. I own several lpvo scopes but always looking for new information without doing this work or spending the $. I've been dissecting this review several times. Great work. Thank you
I enjoy the ATAC-R, Razor 1-10 and Deon dual 1-10. If only Deon can add a removable scope shade and locking turrets like the razor's. Then it's perfect. All three are stellar. Vortex is cooking up something to compete with Deon.
No one does a better scope review than you Karl, thank you! I recently got the Primary Arms plx-c Griffin reticle 1-8, and it's awesome. I picked it because of the two reviews you did with it and the Raptor reticle. If I decide to get another premium LPVO, I know the ups and downs of all the best. Thanks for all your hard work!!😎🇺🇸🦅👊💪
you really did amazing and enormous job with all these optics, and end of that you were able to tell things clear and entertaining way. Even long duration didn't feel even once that I should skip forward! Thank you!
Holy smokes as someone who is never likely to own a LVPO I can’t believe I just sat through almost two hours of this review! (Ok ok I may have fast forwarded a couple of bits 😬). The dedication is real, gotta support TR when this much effort went in. Good job Karl, I’ll be sure to share it with the PRS boys at the club, they will love nerding out over this stuff.
I have only had about 13 years on LPVOs. They are the most versatile optic for 5m to 500m in my opinion. The only downside is that you have to put time in on them to be able to fully use them to thier max capacity.
Dear Karl, Thank you for the time & effort you put in to bring us quality content ! We cannot possibly imagine the energy, devotion and patience that went into getting the information out there for us
Both of the government contracted scopes are not worth the money. I agree the s&B1-8x with the dual focal planes would be great, but they did not get me one for this video. I was supposed to get one back when they were new, but it never arrived. Steiner: they actually asked to enter a scope in this test… of course, send what you want… they sent the 6. Leupold also did NOT send what I would have considered their “best” from their lineup. However, they sent what they wanted to represent their company. Thanks for watching, TR
@@TacticalRifleman Thank you for clarifying the situation in regards to these products. And once more, we are grateful that you put in so much time, dedication & devotion for making this content possible ! :)
I watched every minute of the video and appreciate the objective comparison. I own a few LPVO, one of which is the gen3 razor. I have been eyeing the NF atacr 1-8 for some time and a friend has turned me onto the current vudu options. This video certainly shines some light on options I also hadn't considered. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
Locking Rheostats or Renostats? I appreciate your insight from carrying gear day in day out. There’s lots of content out there analyzing the glass clarity, the reticles etc, but the ability for a scope to remain useful in the field day after day is something most of us would only learn the hard way. So thank you.
First lpvo I ever owned was an atacr 1-8 in mils, figured go big or go home. I ended up selling it after realizing I bit off more than I could chew and learning mils wasn’t something I was ready to commit to. Ended up with a razor 1-10 in moa and while the atacr was an absolute beast I prefer the razor. The diopter adjustment was way easier for me, and I was able to get a really flat clear image for it, not to mention the “disappearing bezel” was way better than the atacr, the atacr had a super thick bezel that focused my eye through the scope at 1x creating a tunnel effect making me scope focused instead of target focused. The throw lever is MUCH better and actually adjustable for where you want the throw to start and end since it’s a clamp that goes around the ring not a rod that screws into one point on the ring. On the atacr the dial was so stiff I would use the entire rear of the scope to zoom in/out and would sometimes end up engaging the locking collar for the diopter which was very annoying. The locking illumination dial is a HUGE advantage as stated in the video, on the atacr the illumination dial being able to free spin the way you demonstrated was frustrating. I never had it self adjust but I also never carried it in full kit up a mountain. The razor is overall easier to use for me and more convenient to live with. The illumination was brighter on the atacr, the thicker stadia lines were nicer at 1x with no illumination, the center dot of the reticle was a finer point of aim at magnification, it did feel more rugged/bomb proof than the razor, and I did appreciate the zero stop, but overall I have really liked the razor and plan on keeping it. I was looking at the EOtech 1-10 as well but the moa version is hard to come by and the moa reticle sucks compared to the mil reticle so you’re pretty much relegated to mils if you go EOtech…not sure why they hate moa so much lol this was a very comprehensive review and much appreciated, thank you sir for validating my purchase 😅
great video--never seen that many different LPVOs head to head anywhere! My AR is a budget build but with solid durable components, I really love my Arken 1-8 with the kill box reticle, inexpensive compared to many of those but super nice glass and lifetime warranty... cant go wrong with their products in my opinion. I do like the primary arms one as well.
I've put almost 1k rounds on the Primary Arms PLxC yards in fde. Coming from the steiner p4xi it took a good while getting used to the plxc tight eyebox. Setting the diopter on the plxc was a pain too.... After dozens of mucking around with the diopter I found that you want to set the 1x to where right at 10-15yards the image is as flat as possible. This allows for the reticle and picture quality to work best through the entire range of magnification. The steiner p4xi still has the absolute best 1x I've ever witnessed in an LPVO. I've been able to get my eyes behind practically every major LPVO in the $3k and less catagory and the steiner just can't be beat. The plxc does do a great job at 1x for a ffp though. P. S. - I guarantee you that the Primary Arms PLxC NOVA is as bright if not BRIGHTER than everything you reviewed. Also, the plxc doesn't need a locking renostat. The brightness dial is so damn tight that I'd be amazed it would ever be moved on its own.
Couldn’t agree more. Its pretty hard to imagine any civilian or even LE application where anything more than a shorty 10-11” M4 out to 300 yards is even vaguely realistic. Steiner P4xi is still tops for me, its perfect 1x/dot, huge eye box, huge FOV, crystal clear & bright glass, compact/light form factor, and simple/practical BDC is still pretty much unrivaled IMO. So many folks don’t understand the pros/cons of lower magnification… yet so many knuckleheads will still prefer a red dot with a bulky, crappy 3x magnifier setup…
Your comment is super helpful. I have a question if you don’t mind. I have a PLXc nova and one with their raptor (whatever they call their FFP) both are on 16 inch rifles. I love them. I’m looking for another lpvo to go on my 14.5 URGI upper, I want it to be durable, daylight bright reticle, and lightweight. This Steiner 1-4 has been coming up a lot and I might buy one. How does only having 1-4 magnification compare to 1-8? Any noticeable drawbacks? How does the eye box on the Steiner 1-4 compare to the PLXc 1-8? Would you say it is as durable as the PLXc or more or less? Are the night vision modes practical? Thanks for any response
@S-tv1yt The steiner p4xi is literally in a league of its own. Beautiful German glass, very light for how durable it is. What sucks is the recent price hike. I bought both of my p4xi's for 500 each which is an absolute steal. If you're after magnification on a shorter platform while still wanting a wide fov, daylight bright 1x then the steiner can't be beat. It has a MASSIVE eyebox, it's eye relief is perfect and stays perfect through the entire range of magnification. I have one on a 16" and the other on a 12.5". I have no problems taking both rifles out to 400 - 500 yards due to glass clarity. Reaching out past 500 starts becoming a challenge but honestly no other option out there gives you the capabilities of having such a great 1x and in my opinion has the best 1x in the LPVO market. I was actually disappointed with the plxc nova. With it being SFP I expected it to fix all the issues of the ffp one like better eyebox and better 6-8x clarity. Glad I was able to try out both the ffp raptor and the sfp plxc before making a decision. Honestly the nova does have a great 1x for what it is and would probably go great with your 14.5".
@S-tv1yt I think I forgot to mention durability.... While there isn't much data on the plxc as dlfar as durability goes, the steiner has most certainly been put through the wringer. It has much better water proofing than the plxc which is an amazing achievement in itself. It's safe to say it's much more durable than the plxc.
@ I had my nova on my 14.5 but decided to put it on my 16 BCM upper. Thanks a lot this has been really useful. I wanted a nice low magnification for my URGI without breaking the bank and I’ll probably go with that
Karl as always, you’re very thorough and again you help me out a lot the scope you had me use of course the highest price one very nice. I had no trouble seeing the target hitting it not great but not bad but that was me not scope. I know I need a good scope. I’ll save up my money and go from there again thank you JB.
Great video! Best comparison for environmental stuff by far. The tracking of the turrets would be a good category for a follow-up video if you do one on LPVOs under $1k. I’ve been convinced that clarity, eye relief, and proper recital are the most important features to me. But I’ve been mostly shooting with LPVOs under the $1k mark.
I've always been a bit dubious about LPVO's usually either thinking either throw a proper scope on it or use a red dot. Some of your commentary really has me re-thinking that. You're probably going to cost me money. Can I have my wife call you & explain it to her?
He said sure I say that's your battle. HA HA . I know your pain have to have that same talk with mine every time I get something new. Still love her to death, would not live without her!
I'm still running my Schmidt & Bender 1-8 PMII Short Dot. The one that hasn't gotten a lot of attention which needs more is the ATIBAL 1-12x. Thats the only MPVO on the market that goes down to 1x and has an adjustable parallax.
Love Vortex LPVOs. Absolutely worth it, especially with the LE/Mil discount. Primary Arms are also a great inexpensive option. I really like their SLX micro prisms too. Etched reticle, fixed magnification. Like a mini ACOG. Excellent reviews sir. Thanks for your time and dedication!
Something to note about the vortex 1-10 is that the center reticle is opaque. Very intuitive for remaining target focused at any distant while magnified.
Timeline 1:01:10..."My M-16 frozen to the ground".....c'mon TR, even us fresh faced newbies from the East Coast knew to keep your "rifle" in bed with you for that close up and personal time alone. I have woken up to a couple of inches of ice/snow on my bag but my 16 was always warm and toasty. Great content none the less.
Carl, great video. I was just looking to buy one of these for my 2 Daniel Defense AR's. This gave me so much information to consider. I will watch this a couple of times before I go shopping. thanks
Love your show dude, if I was not so far away I’d love to attend your training and have a few beers and natter with you. This review is fantastic, not just with your applied experience but your learnings and what no doubt others have said. Great insight and solid justification and reasoning - btw, need another Rick Lamb, “Stryker” your self and perhaps serving Delta guy to talk about how tech and TTPs have evolved for specific things.
I run a Razor 1-10 on my ADM 308, which is awesome. However, love my Trijicon Accupoint 1-6 on my 16” AR and Accupoint 1-4 on my 12.5 SBR…no batteries and very decent glass and eye box for shooting inside 300 yards.
Here Feb 1 2025 and want to tell you that PA now has a PlxC 1-8x FFP with griffin mil and raptor reticle that is now “daylight bright” in their new “RDP” line!!! Me, being poor for 1, and being a procrastinator 2….bought an Slx 1-6x nova to try the lpvo platform on the cheap before I took the deep dive. I love it….just wish it had MORE magnification (they released the 1-10x version in the Slx line a month after I bought mine on sale for $269….for $450!) and just wasn’t fully satisfied to go out and pay 1250 (on sale) to 1499 for the PlxC version. I, and from what I’m hearing MANY others, wanted basically a FFP nova in a PlxC! Which was basically impossible from what reps at PA claimed…..but, still went out and did it with their FFP PlxC “RDP” scope!! And, it comes with 2 reticles…the griffin you desire, and the raptor many have grown to love. I am also leaning towards that griffin reticle, as I like the extra illuminated holds it offers over the raptor reticles. Price points are coming in around 17-1800. But with the common 12% codes PA offers throughout the year holiday or not….you’re looking at about 1585 total. Sounds like a bargain to me. I can now splurge on a badger 1.70 mount for its release (30mm). Get that bank roll spent and save up for the lpvo’s release. The longer PA takes, the more time I have to decide on a j-arm 45 or an arc top mount for the 509t I have dedicated for optics on this project. This time I went the lazy route and purchased a super duty mod 1 12.5” from G$ so I could get a flow 556k for the hux Md it comes with and only change was an mk machine grip so far. I may toss an FCD 50q safety on her as the safety is plain on it. And possibly a mil-spec bolt release to fit a pmm battery control device on it as the receiver is not ambi here in 2025!!! Even Daniel’s now does full ambi controls on their dd4/dd5 lowers! C’mon geissele!!!
I’ve got the PA 1-8x FFP with the Griffin X reticle. Loving it so far. At 1x the bottom of the Christmas tree is almost perfect for HoB inside 25 yards.
Great job very thorough. I have the vortex 1-6 gen ii e and I also use point blank zero and I basically consider it a 0-400 yard red dot. Easy way to do it. Don’t use the tic marks for anything really. I switch back it forth with the razor to my Aimpoint T2 and not sure which one I really prefer. Pros and cons of both. I was interested in the leupold patrol 1-6 fire dot to use basically the same way. A red dot that also has magnification and it’s very light with capped turrets I just haven’t got my hands on one. Anyways the thank you for your service and hard work on this video, appreciate it more then you know.
I wonder when Leupold will release their new Mark 6HD (1-6X) FFP Horseshoe. The problem will them is that will go dormant for years and then conquer the market.
What a well done review. I currently have a Kahles K16i on my SHTF 14.5 gun and its gotta be the best glass I’ve seen. I would have loved to have seen it in here but I get that you can only do so many. I am looking for an optic for my 11.5 duty gun and this got the wheels turning so thank you.
Thanks for all the effort. That was hours of work. Damn. I appreciate it. Especially with the optic choices. Probably the most popular ones on the market.
This is a terrific video. I love it. It is very logical and offers great understanding in LPVO tech. The test cases he puts these optics through was great. Awesome information and education. BTW I own the PA PLx-C 1x8x24 Nova Reticle SFP that I am running on my primary 5.56 AR-15. I run a PA PLx-C 1x8x24 Griffin Reticle FFP on my DMR 6 ARC. Then I have the Trijicon Credo 1x10x28 on my .308 (heavy but good), and then I have 2 other AR-15's that I have the PA SLx 1x10x28 SFP which for the money are still very good optics. I would love to get the EOTECH Vudu 1x10 next as I have looked through the glass and is it very nice. I have looked through the NF ATACR and the lighter NF NX8. I like the NX8 better. I tend to be going towards the lighter LPVOs. Primary Arms has spoiled me. On my 300 BO pistol I am running the new Unity Fast 4x magnifier and an Aimpoint Micro Comp M5b red dot. I also have 2 ACOGs that I will run on my 300 BO or my .308 once in a while as I still love them. I consider them all great optics that are more than capable to do the job. There are lots of options out there which is a good problem to have and though I can afford to buy more expensive optics, I choose to stay middle of the road as far as price.
Very cool. Idea, I’d like to see your opinion here. I tried some of the best, razor genIII, nightforce atacer, Steiner, march and couldn’t find a clear favorite. I ended up going with an eotech and g45 magnifier instead. Which I am sad about as I enjoy more and am much better at long range shooting than close in stuff and wanted to stay with the magnified scope idea. I’ve settled to using an MPVO (leupold mk5 hd 2-10) and rmr on my mk12ish rifle.
Details for the win! some of which I never knew about but now see are important to consider. I’ll be referencing this video for quite some time, thank you!
Outstanding, only 1 big boy LPVO you missed was the Deon March Dual reticle 1-10 shorty, but other then that Karl, I think you could refer people to this video for the next 5-7 years and get tons of value that will still be useful.
Hi Karl, Alot of people don't consider spares or backups when factoring in the costs of these. I went with the Primary arms 1-8 ACSS GRIFFIN PLX I Bought 2 of these scopes and was still way under the vortex razor. Personally I would go with either the primary arms or the Eotech they both utilize a donut of death style reticle makes it alot easier for putting rounds on target especially if you don't shoot a ton. Trying to hunt for a tiny dot sucks
I may have to take a re-look at low power magnified optics. Decades ago I tried a Trijicon ACOG. Lots of people told me about that Bindin Aiming Concept. Keeping two eyes open. So my left eye was seeing 1x and the right eye was seeing a 4x image. Got a massive headache in exactly 4.2 seconds. Been using an Aimpoint M-3 (1x) ever since.
For price and benefits I got Vortex Eagle 1-8. It has ranging reticle,Red dot bright and clear day and night time use. Easy finding target upclose and past 300m. Lever that changes variable zoom is also just right and gives you option to change it out as well.
Karl: *Talking about breaking your LPVO* maybe you're tripping coming off the tailgate of the helicopter, or maybe you're a seal locking out of a sub from 40ft down. Me: Rolls off bed at night and hits head on LPVO on my rifle next to me 💀
Took me a few days to get through the whole video. Tons of good information. Thanks for the work you put into this. Did you find any notable advantages or disadvantages between 30mm to 34mm scope bodies?
Not really. I understand why they do it, but the cons balance the pros. Either will work for me. I mainly want clear high quality glass in a light scope
It's great to have an opportunity to hear info and advice from someone who actually knows what they're doing without a sales pitch. I appreciate that.
Ditto! This is truly an experts opinion without the BS.
Love this cat FOR THIS VERY REASON. SPIT THE TRUTH BROTHER!
Ive watched so many reviews, this guy takes the cake for no nonsense.
Thanks for watching.
So far in my TH-cam travels, this is absolutely the best video I've seen on LPVO scopes and what to look for in getting the best one. Thanks a bunch!
This video was so overdue on the internet. So many reviewers do a good job providing information, yet details about what features that seem cool and high-end become useless in the real world from someone who has been in a combat zone, are sometimes if not most times, missing.
Granted, the real world comes in many varieties of theater from open military engagements, to police SWAT, to private citizen. Some of what he mentions such as battery life due to renostats being moved while in motion may not apply depending on your end use cases, role and what you are doing. Never the less, the details and scenarios he introduces paints a much broader picture by which people have more objective information to make buying decisions with. And I think that really was his goal or at least part of it. Excellent job, well done!
Thanks for sharing. TR
What a great effort. Thank you so much for you and who you are both as a true Green Beret teaching and as Carl in Christ. We are lucky to be able to learn from you..
Thanks for taking the time and effort for a comprehensive review. When people ask me about why I use the LPVO's I do, or the differences, I link them this video.
Thanks for watching!
Great work done here and thank you this is the most Indepth LPVO video I have ever seen. You spent a lot of time and effort to bring this to us so Thank you again.
Glad you liked it!
Wow. Excellent video Karl. Thanks for an honest review. That story about prying your rifle from the frozen mud sounded like a grim time. Thanks again SGM
"I'm having dreams about mounting and remounting scopes" LOL funny stuff right there. I bet. I own several lpvo scopes but always looking for new information without doing this work or spending the $. I've been dissecting this review several times. Great work. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it. I put a lot of work into this one
I'm so glade you didn't become a Marine or a Navy guy Karl.
What a bad ass review.
I bought the Nightforce NX8 about 3 years ago and love it.
I actually preferred the NX8 over the ATACR. Both Nightforce are great Scopes
March dual reticle optic 1-10 is a game changer,I love it.
Same
I like mine
I enjoy the ATAC-R, Razor 1-10 and Deon dual 1-10. If only Deon can add a removable scope shade and locking turrets like the razor's. Then it's perfect. All three are stellar. Vortex is cooking up something to compete with Deon.
@@namenotfound8747how about Deon’s shiruken locking turrets.
Karl,
Best review ive seen. What a work load!
Watched every minute. You kept it real.
The Hammer was a very nice touch.
Thank you
Medical Ice Removal Tool
Me: I need to be productive this afternoon and get some stuff done.
Tactical Rifleman: Nah, it'll be fine.
No one does a better scope review than you Karl, thank you! I recently got the Primary Arms plx-c Griffin reticle 1-8, and it's awesome. I picked it because of the two reviews you did with it and the Raptor reticle. If I decide to get another premium LPVO, I know the ups and downs of all the best. Thanks for all your hard work!!😎🇺🇸🦅👊💪
Glad to help
Great comparison! I personally like the pa plxc 1-8 griffin mil for my use case scenario. Ty Karl for taking the time to do this video.
Thanks for the extensive review Karl. Most in-depth video on the subject.
This is hands down one of the best videos I have seen in a while. Really appreciate the hard work you put into this.
Glad you enjoyed it!
you really did amazing and enormous job with all these optics, and end of that you were able to tell things clear and entertaining way. Even long duration didn't feel even once that I should skip forward! Thank you!
Holy smokes as someone who is never likely to own a LVPO I can’t believe I just sat through almost two hours of this review! (Ok ok I may have fast forwarded a couple of bits 😬). The dedication is real, gotta support TR when this much effort went in. Good job Karl, I’ll be sure to share it with the PRS boys at the club, they will love nerding out over this stuff.
I have only had about 13 years on LPVOs. They are the most versatile optic for 5m to 500m in my opinion. The only downside is that you have to put time in on them to be able to fully use them to thier max capacity.
Dear Karl,
Thank you for the time & effort you put in to bring us quality content !
We cannot possibly imagine the energy, devotion and patience that went into getting the information out there for us
Both of the government contracted scopes are not worth the money.
I agree the s&B1-8x with the dual focal planes would be great, but they did not get me one for this video. I was supposed to get one back when they were new, but it never arrived.
Steiner: they actually asked to enter a scope in this test… of course, send what you want… they sent the 6.
Leupold also did NOT send what I would have considered their “best” from their lineup. However, they sent what they wanted to represent their company.
Thanks for watching, TR
@@TacticalRifleman Thank you for clarifying the situation in regards to these products. And once more, we are grateful that you put in so much time, dedication & devotion for making this content possible ! :)
Every time I listen to Karl, I feel more informed and less indecisive. We need more of this on gun tube and less “peacocking” product pitching.
That was a ton of work/effort. It is much appreciated! Should be written up and published!
I put a lot of work into this one. Thanks for watching!
Now this is what I like to see from Karl. This was an awesome video. So much great info.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I watched every minute of the video and appreciate the objective comparison. I own a few LPVO, one of which is the gen3 razor. I have been eyeing the NF atacr 1-8 for some time and a friend has turned me onto the current vudu options. This video certainly shines some light on options I also hadn't considered. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
P A., 1x6, sfp.
Perfection on a budget.
Great video... Best comprehensive comparison review I have ever seen. Great job!
Glad you liked it!
6 mins in and I just wanna say I greatly appreciate it. Be looking to upgrade my PA 1-6x 2nd FP.
Locking Rheostats or Renostats? I appreciate your insight from carrying gear day in day out. There’s lots of content out there analyzing the glass clarity, the reticles etc, but the ability for a scope to remain useful in the field day after day is something most of us would only learn the hard way. So thank you.
Rheostat, but I get what he is saying.😁
Can’t wait to see the results!
A best under $1000 video would be amazing with all of your testing and scope knowledge. Thank you for all that you do
I agree, there are some great options out there for under $1000.
@@TacticalRiflemanlike which?
I’ve been extremely happy with everything Vortex that I’ve owned so far, really like the Viper line for their cost to performance ratio.
Shoot fast Carl. Lol you really knocked it out of the park with this comprehensive review
Thanks, Karl!
Have to say, that last comment was classic…”I’m going to go back to to running red dot on all my guns.”😂
I know, sometimes you just gotta go back to the basics.
Great video Karl! I like the unbiased approach that you brought to the table. Thanks for all you do.
Thanks for watching! Glad you enjoyed it.
Thank you, this was extremely helpful with decisions to make after being away from it all for some years.
Glad it was helpful!
The Vortex Razor Gen II-E and the Gen III are the same weight. That was one of the selling points: 4 more power for the same weight and length.
Sooo much more money though, I could only bring myself to get the 1-6 since it was on sale. If I was a rich man that 1-10 would’ve been mine
First lpvo I ever owned was an atacr 1-8 in mils, figured go big or go home. I ended up selling it after realizing I bit off more than I could chew and learning mils wasn’t something I was ready to commit to. Ended up with a razor 1-10 in moa and while the atacr was an absolute beast I prefer the razor. The diopter adjustment was way easier for me, and I was able to get a really flat clear image for it, not to mention the “disappearing bezel” was way better than the atacr, the atacr had a super thick bezel that focused my eye through the scope at 1x creating a tunnel effect making me scope focused instead of target focused. The throw lever is MUCH better and actually adjustable for where you want the throw to start and end since it’s a clamp that goes around the ring not a rod that screws into one point on the ring. On the atacr the dial was so stiff I would use the entire rear of the scope to zoom in/out and would sometimes end up engaging the locking collar for the diopter which was very annoying. The locking illumination dial is a HUGE advantage as stated in the video, on the atacr the illumination dial being able to free spin the way you demonstrated was frustrating. I never had it self adjust but I also never carried it in full kit up a mountain. The razor is overall easier to use for me and more convenient to live with. The illumination was brighter on the atacr, the thicker stadia lines were nicer at 1x with no illumination, the center dot of the reticle was a finer point of aim at magnification, it did feel more rugged/bomb proof than the razor, and I did appreciate the zero stop, but overall I have really liked the razor and plan on keeping it. I was looking at the EOtech 1-10 as well but the moa version is hard to come by and the moa reticle sucks compared to the mil reticle so you’re pretty much relegated to mils if you go EOtech…not sure why they hate moa so much lol this was a very comprehensive review and much appreciated, thank you sir for validating my purchase 😅
great video--never seen that many different LPVOs head to head anywhere! My AR is a budget build but with solid durable components, I really love my Arken 1-8 with the kill box reticle, inexpensive compared to many of those but super nice glass and lifetime warranty... cant go wrong with their products in my opinion. I do like the primary arms one as well.
Man thats a ton of work. Thank you. Bravo.
THis was a LOOONG Test. Thanks for watching!
I've put almost 1k rounds on the Primary Arms PLxC yards in fde. Coming from the steiner p4xi it took a good while getting used to the plxc tight eyebox. Setting the diopter on the plxc was a pain too.... After dozens of mucking around with the diopter I found that you want to set the 1x to where right at 10-15yards the image is as flat as possible. This allows for the reticle and picture quality to work best through the entire range of magnification.
The steiner p4xi still has the absolute best 1x I've ever witnessed in an LPVO. I've been able to get my eyes behind practically every major LPVO in the $3k and less catagory and the steiner just can't be beat. The plxc does do a great job at 1x for a ffp though.
P. S. - I guarantee you that the Primary Arms PLxC NOVA is as bright if not BRIGHTER than everything you reviewed. Also, the plxc doesn't need a locking renostat. The brightness dial is so damn tight that I'd be amazed it would ever be moved on its own.
Couldn’t agree more. Its pretty hard to imagine any civilian or even LE application where anything more than a shorty 10-11” M4 out to 300 yards is even vaguely realistic. Steiner P4xi is still tops for me, its perfect 1x/dot, huge eye box, huge FOV, crystal clear & bright glass, compact/light form factor, and simple/practical BDC is still pretty much unrivaled IMO.
So many folks don’t understand the pros/cons of lower magnification… yet so many knuckleheads will still prefer a red dot with a bulky, crappy 3x magnifier setup…
Your comment is super helpful. I have a question if you don’t mind. I have a PLXc nova and one with their raptor (whatever they call their FFP) both are on 16 inch rifles. I love them. I’m looking for another lpvo to go on my 14.5 URGI upper, I want it to be durable, daylight bright reticle, and lightweight. This Steiner 1-4 has been coming up a lot and I might buy one. How does only having 1-4 magnification compare to 1-8? Any noticeable drawbacks? How does the eye box on the Steiner 1-4 compare to the PLXc 1-8? Would you say it is as durable as the PLXc or more or less? Are the night vision modes practical? Thanks for any response
@S-tv1yt The steiner p4xi is literally in a league of its own. Beautiful German glass, very light for how durable it is. What sucks is the recent price hike. I bought both of my p4xi's for 500 each which is an absolute steal.
If you're after magnification on a shorter platform while still wanting a wide fov, daylight bright 1x then the steiner can't be beat. It has a MASSIVE eyebox, it's eye relief is perfect and stays perfect through the entire range of magnification. I have one on a 16" and the other on a 12.5". I have no problems taking both rifles out to 400 - 500 yards due to glass clarity. Reaching out past 500 starts becoming a challenge but honestly no other option out there gives you the capabilities of having such a great 1x and in my opinion has the best 1x in the LPVO market.
I was actually disappointed with the plxc nova. With it being SFP I expected it to fix all the issues of the ffp one like better eyebox and better 6-8x clarity. Glad I was able to try out both the ffp raptor and the sfp plxc before making a decision. Honestly the nova does have a great 1x for what it is and would probably go great with your 14.5".
@S-tv1yt I think I forgot to mention durability.... While there isn't much data on the plxc as dlfar as durability goes, the steiner has most certainly been put through the wringer. It has much better water proofing than the plxc which is an amazing achievement in itself. It's safe to say it's much more durable than the plxc.
@ I had my nova on my 14.5 but decided to put it on my 16 BCM upper. Thanks a lot this has been really useful. I wanted a nice low magnification for my URGI without breaking the bank and I’ll probably go with that
Outstanding Video. Thanks for the hard work, time and detailed analysis.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Karl as always, you’re very thorough and again you help me out a lot the scope you had me use of course the highest price one very nice. I had no trouble seeing the target hitting it not great but not bad but that was me not scope. I know I need a good scope. I’ll save up my money and go from there again thank you JB.
Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
Glad it was helpful!
First off thank for your service, and thank you for the great In Depth review .
Much appreciated!
Outstanding research, detail, and commitment, one of the best videos of the year, thank you.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! Best comparison for environmental stuff by far. The tracking of the turrets would be a good category for a follow-up video if you do one on LPVOs under $1k. I’ve been convinced that clarity, eye relief, and proper recital are the most important features to me. But I’ve been mostly shooting with LPVOs under the $1k mark.
I've always been a bit dubious about LPVO's usually either thinking either throw a proper scope on it or use a red dot. Some of your commentary really has me re-thinking that. You're probably going to cost me money. Can I have my wife call you & explain it to her?
Of Course.
He said sure I say that's your battle. HA HA . I know your pain have to have that same talk with mine every time I get something new. Still love her to death, would not live without her!
Thank you for the time and effort you put into this, it's really great to have this video as a reference for all these scopes!
Glad it was helpful!
I'm still running my Schmidt & Bender 1-8 PMII Short Dot. The one that hasn't gotten a lot of attention which needs more is the ATIBAL 1-12x. Thats the only MPVO on the market that goes down to 1x and has an adjustable parallax.
Im running the primary arms SFP gen3 with .223, iluminated dot 1 to 6x for 310 usd its perfect, holds zero perfectly even with 6x magnification...
@@allancastaneda5842 what do you want me to tell you?
@@allancastaneda5842 What do you want me to say?
😅@@printingwithpeek4897
Europe most military/special units use s&b and they love it
Love Vortex LPVOs. Absolutely worth it, especially with the LE/Mil discount. Primary Arms are also a great inexpensive option. I really like their SLX micro prisms too. Etched reticle, fixed magnification. Like a mini ACOG.
Excellent reviews sir. Thanks for your time and dedication!
Glad you enjoyed the video and agree on the quality of Vortex and Primary Arms
Something to note about the vortex 1-10 is that the center reticle is opaque. Very intuitive for remaining target focused at any distant while magnified.
Timeline 1:01:10..."My M-16 frozen to the ground".....c'mon TR, even us fresh faced newbies from the East Coast knew to keep your "rifle" in bed with you for that close up and personal time alone. I have woken up to a couple of inches of ice/snow on my bag but my 16 was always warm and toasty. Great content none the less.
Never put a rifle in my sleeping bag. Squad leaders would have lost their shit.
Carl, great video. I was just looking to buy one of these for my 2 Daniel Defense AR's. This gave me so much information to consider. I will watch this a couple of times before I go shopping. thanks
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
Karl last year with Coach and I - "OK, let me demo this for you guys...damn this bitch is heavy!" 😂 Good times
Yep, I remember that. I used every one of these scopes in a different block of classes. Some really sucked.
Love your show dude, if I was not so far away I’d love to attend your training and have a few beers and natter with you. This review is fantastic, not just with your applied experience but your learnings and what no doubt others have said. Great insight and solid justification and reasoning - btw, need another Rick Lamb, “Stryker” your self and perhaps serving Delta guy to talk about how tech and TTPs have evolved for specific things.
Sounds great!
Primary Arms is really coming in strong with their price points
Best things in life are worth waiting for and working hard for. Great work.
Mr. Karl, thanks for an awesome real world L.P.V.O. test!! Best info out there!!
Very welcome
Thanks!
Love Your knowledge and appreciate your service
Welcome!
Great review ,highly informative. You put in a lot of work and it is appreciated.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it.
It definitely can appreciate all the work that went into this, shoo buddy.
Thanks, it was a lot of work.
I run a Razor 1-10 on my ADM 308, which is awesome. However, love my Trijicon Accupoint 1-6 on my 16” AR and Accupoint 1-4 on my 12.5 SBR…no batteries and very decent glass and eye box for shooting inside 300 yards.
Here Feb 1 2025 and want to tell you that PA now has a PlxC 1-8x FFP with griffin mil and raptor reticle that is now “daylight bright” in their new “RDP” line!!! Me, being poor for 1, and being a procrastinator 2….bought an Slx 1-6x nova to try the lpvo platform on the cheap before I took the deep dive. I love it….just wish it had MORE magnification (they released the 1-10x version in the Slx line a month after I bought mine on sale for $269….for $450!) and just wasn’t fully satisfied to go out and pay 1250 (on sale) to 1499 for the PlxC version. I, and from what I’m hearing MANY others, wanted basically a FFP nova in a PlxC! Which was basically impossible from what reps at PA claimed…..but, still went out and did it with their FFP PlxC “RDP” scope!! And, it comes with 2 reticles…the griffin you desire, and the raptor many have grown to love. I am also leaning towards that griffin reticle, as I like the extra illuminated holds it offers over the raptor reticles. Price points are coming in around 17-1800. But with the common 12% codes PA offers throughout the year holiday or not….you’re looking at about 1585 total. Sounds like a bargain to me. I can now splurge on a badger 1.70 mount for its release (30mm). Get that bank roll spent and save up for the lpvo’s release. The longer PA takes, the more time I have to decide on a j-arm 45 or an arc top mount for the 509t I have dedicated for optics on this project. This time I went the lazy route and purchased a super duty mod 1 12.5” from G$ so I could get a flow 556k for the hux Md it comes with and only change was an mk machine grip so far. I may toss an FCD 50q safety on her as the safety is plain on it. And possibly a mil-spec bolt release to fit a pmm battery control device on it as the receiver is not ambi here in 2025!!! Even Daniel’s now does full ambi controls on their dd4/dd5 lowers! C’mon geissele!!!
Thanks for the durability/zero test most excellent and very surprising the atacr had such drift
Excellent video thanks for putting in all the time and effort putting it together and sharing your knowledge.
It was a lot of work, but worth it.
Most secure fruit trees in the country 😂
Great video. Thank you for all the work you put into this.
You're welcome, enjoy the video.
Great review Karl and very appreciated! Thank you for all the information.
Glad it was helpful!
I’ve got the PA 1-8x FFP with the Griffin X reticle. Loving it so far. At 1x the bottom of the Christmas tree is almost perfect for HoB inside 25 yards.
THIS
IS
AWESOME!!!!
Thank you so much. Huge huge effort. Appreciate you Sir!!!
Wow that was a lot of work Karl. Excellent job bro 👊
Yes it was
Great job very thorough. I have the vortex 1-6 gen ii e and I also use point blank zero and I basically consider it a 0-400 yard red dot. Easy way to do it. Don’t use the tic marks for anything really. I switch back it forth with the razor to my Aimpoint T2 and not sure which one I really prefer. Pros and cons of both. I was interested in the leupold patrol 1-6 fire dot to use basically the same way. A red dot that also has magnification and it’s very light with capped turrets I just haven’t got my hands on one. Anyways the thank you for your service and hard work on this video, appreciate it more then you know.
I loved the Leupold Patrol
I have the Razor HD 1-6 and absolutely love it. A three way on/off/shake-awake switch would make it perfect.
I wonder when Leupold will release their new Mark 6HD (1-6X) FFP Horseshoe. The problem will them is that will go dormant for years and then conquer the market.
What a well done review. I currently have a Kahles K16i on my SHTF 14.5 gun and its gotta be the best glass I’ve seen. I would have loved to have seen it in here but I get that you can only do so many. I am looking for an optic for my 11.5 duty gun and this got the wheels turning so thank you.
Thanks for all the effort. That was hours of work. Damn. I appreciate it. Especially with the optic choices. Probably the most popular ones on the market.
Stepping up to 6arc from 5.56, this video is right on time.
This is a terrific video. I love it. It is very logical and offers great understanding in LPVO tech. The test cases he puts these optics through was great. Awesome information and education.
BTW I own the PA PLx-C 1x8x24 Nova Reticle SFP that I am running on my primary 5.56 AR-15. I run a PA PLx-C 1x8x24 Griffin Reticle FFP on my DMR 6 ARC. Then I have the Trijicon Credo 1x10x28 on my .308 (heavy but good), and then I have 2 other AR-15's that I have the PA SLx 1x10x28 SFP which for the money are still very good optics. I would love to get the EOTECH Vudu 1x10 next as I have looked through the glass and is it very nice. I have looked through the NF ATACR and the lighter NF NX8. I like the NX8 better. I tend to be going towards the lighter LPVOs. Primary Arms has spoiled me. On my 300 BO pistol I am running the new Unity Fast 4x magnifier and an Aimpoint Micro Comp M5b red dot. I also have 2 ACOGs that I will run on my 300 BO or my .308 once in a while as I still love them. I consider them all great optics that are more than capable to do the job.
There are lots of options out there which is a good problem to have and though I can afford to buy more expensive optics, I choose to stay middle of the road as far as price.
Very cool. Idea, I’d like to see your opinion here.
I tried some of the best, razor genIII, nightforce atacer, Steiner, march and couldn’t find a clear favorite. I ended up going with an eotech and g45 magnifier instead. Which I am sad about as I enjoy more and am much better at long range shooting than close in stuff and wanted to stay with the magnified scope idea.
I’ve settled to using an MPVO (leupold mk5 hd 2-10) and rmr on my mk12ish rifle.
Great video! I might have missed part of it, but I wish you had the Trijicon VCOG in there.
Next time!
Thank you for your time.
My pleasure!
Been waiting on this one👍
I hope it was worth the wait. I put a lot of personal time and effort into this project.
Details for the win! some of which I never knew about but now see are important to consider. I’ll be referencing this video for quite some time, thank you!
Thanks for sharing
Outstanding, only 1 big boy LPVO you missed was the Deon March Dual reticle 1-10 shorty, but other then that Karl, I think you could refer people to this video for the next 5-7 years and get tons of value that will still be useful.
Good information and a lot to digest. Thank you sir this is very helpful. God bless and Merry Christmas 🎄🎁.
Same to you!
Primary arms acss is a game changer for those with astigmatism
Best LPVO Test ever seen
THanks
Amazing!
They need to pay you Karl for this
Hi Karl, Alot of people don't consider spares or backups when factoring in the costs of these. I went with the Primary arms 1-8 ACSS GRIFFIN PLX I Bought 2 of these scopes and was still way under the vortex razor. Personally I would go with either the primary arms or the Eotech they both utilize a donut of death style reticle makes it alot easier for putting rounds on target especially if you don't shoot a ton. Trying to hunt for a tiny dot sucks
Great video. That was super informative!
Glad it was helpful!
I may have to take a re-look at low power magnified optics. Decades ago I tried a Trijicon ACOG. Lots of people told me about that Bindin Aiming Concept. Keeping two eyes open. So my left eye was seeing 1x and the right eye was seeing a 4x image. Got a massive headache in exactly 4.2 seconds. Been using an Aimpoint M-3 (1x) ever since.
I have just got SFP PLX-C. I am loving it.
Great video review, Karl!
Glad you enjoyed it
Great video, Karl. Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
For price and benefits I got Vortex Eagle 1-8.
It has ranging reticle,Red dot bright and clear day and night time use.
Easy finding target upclose and past 300m.
Lever that changes variable zoom is also just right and gives you option to change it out as well.
Ok wow lots of info I watched it all didn’t even skip anything. And I’m not in the market for these. How long did this video take to make ?
Karl: *Talking about breaking your LPVO* maybe you're tripping coming off the tailgate of the helicopter, or maybe you're a seal locking out of a sub from 40ft down.
Me: Rolls off bed at night and hits head on LPVO on my rifle next to me 💀
Thank you, for your time and effort to make this vid.
It was a lot of work but worth it.
Damn it.. how did you know i was looking at the vudu!
I really appreciate this effort.
Took me a few days to get through the whole video. Tons of good information. Thanks for the work you put into this. Did you find any notable advantages or disadvantages between 30mm to 34mm scope bodies?
Not really. I understand why they do it, but the cons balance the pros. Either will work for me.
I mainly want clear high quality glass in a light scope