I agree with you about suppression being powerful meta. I discovered this about a month ago when I started doing a ton of Aurics, suppression is critical to survival and "CC" tactics and I use it ALL THE TIME now!
Its interesting to see the discourse on suppression from high end players. I've seen other top tier players who hate suppression because it makes enemies duck their heads and prevent headshots when they weren't having any issue just dodging though their fire in the first place. Just as well there's obviously something to be said for passively disabling enemy aggression as its much safer and enables stronger counteroffensives. Both schools of thought have their merits, but I think the change in TTK is negligible in most cases compared with the counterplay that suppression enables.
You don't, but do you think that columnus would be a better or worse weapon if it dealt the same supression as braced autoguns? That's not a tradeoff I'd take because you can kill an insane amount of enemies in one magazine. I'll take a moment to complain about soul blaze trauma psykers that take this concept to the extreme, post a video with 5 billon damage but the game lasts 40 minutes because cleaving or focus firing stuff with your team is just faster @@TannerLindberg
This is what I keep telling people. Suppression enables crowd control by manipulating enemy behavior. The fewer enemies who are *immediately* fighting you make the fights more manageable.
I can't tell you how frustrating it is to play in groups that just *do not shoot things*, let alone suppress them. I like playing Ogryn, but I can only do so much when I'm running a Kickback or a grenade gauntlet. I just get chewed up because apparently normal shooters are just completely invisible to other people. Running vet with enemy highlight feels like a necessity.
If you go down the right tree with kickback it turns into alot of fun especially if you take the keystone addon about the 200 percent ability cool down. I basically go through the whole match annihilating gunners with braced shots of that and clearing hordes or huge patrols of ragers. Carry a knife/cleaver can't remember the number but has the serrations for other ogryns, but sometimes a braced headshot crit will one tap a crusher.
idk about you but if anything, kickback is AMAZING at range and for CC. despite being a shotgun, it does well killing smaller shooters at distance, and the fact that it can knock down pretty much ANY enemy, from Dreg Ragers to Crushers at ANY RANGE is great as well. Honestly sometimes I feel it's harder to kill enemies from afar with stubbers than with kickback.
@@sivel7493 The kickback is great for damage and knocking things over, but iirc, it's not got the greatest suppression coverage like an automatic gun can have
@@Rohtix ehhh, I mean, just hipfire, from my experience it doesn't really matter whether you brace or not, there's really not a big difference in dmg at range, you'd just get a bigger area coverage, and if you're looking to suppress enemies...knocking them down is basically just that, but simply better.
The kickback can't compete with an autogun, when dealing with spread out shooters. That is not it's job. There are better tools available. Why do these comments exist?
I remember running bolter on my vet way back in the day and just ADS firing next to the crowds of enemies to basically stunlock them without even trying. I assume devs are aware of how strong the suppression is, because the latest(now reverted) changes to ranged units show that they expect players to use it. Instead I got to see dozens of people get melted by ranged, cause they think that they should just walk up to an enemy that actively shoots at them.
Been watching this channel for a month or so... FINALLY someone talking and showing logic instead of just "wanking" eachother. Keep up the work, could we get a Recon Las build or an example?
anyone who was riding the wave of abusing the micro SMG, the Ius Mk III Shredder Autopistol knows the power of mobility and suppression. they nerfed it’s damage but if you run a game with it and powderburn blessing (+14-20% Damage against Suppressed Enemies, +28-40% Suppression and -28-40% Recoil on Close Range Kill.) you will REALLY feel how much easier it makes the shootouts in any given map.
I like terrifying barrage on characters that are not great at melee cause it makes surprise ambushers stop what they are doing after you smoke one or two of them
I use the suppression perk always on my Vet. I am playing with the center line of the tree with a Ak-74... I mean with the green looking AK and I can stun everyone.
good vid, i always figured suppression was kinda useless since i'm immune to it myself and death is usually the best status effect you can inflict upon the bad guys. with KTHD a single blast from a shotgun at mid-long range can instantly suppress a shotgunner. columnus mk5 does no stagger whatsoever but its suppression is very very good that area on Carnival 2 you mentioned really does always seem to have gunners, you're right
Yes death is much better how ever if its all you have you cant be upset when eventually 7 gunners from angles reck you since you just dont use the counter play mechanic
Ironically, the +50 suppresion makes it harder for me to get Focus stacks because they quickly cower and move thier head around or run to cover. This only is an issue on Damnation since my team takes forever to prioritize gunners, let alone specialists and elites. But, if I use my comfy Focus Target, the extra suppresion saves us against the mob of bullet hosers.
Side question. How do you feel about Ogryn end game? I don't see you discuss them. With the last round of changes they feel so slow. They always were slow swapping weapons and reloading but now every other class runs faster than they do. They are a great damage sponge but do they get played endgame? I am nowhere near your skill level but trying to get better and was just curious if you care to discuss.
I honestly feel most safe playing damnation on ogryn, because of how much stagger and reliable toghness generation I have. Also I can always see specialists easily over crowds to whip out a shredder and deal with them. Ripper gun seem to suppress gunners really easily as well. Lot of games I don't have to use medicaid stations at all.
@@TannerLindberg do you know someone who youd trust to give valid opinions on ogryn? i dont exactly trust the lfg discord but i would like to learn about ogryn meta somehow
I use bolter for fun when dealing with most things with the eviscerator. Problem though, you count on others for the ranged shots or else you have to slow waaaaaay down to snipe. I do like using it to get through a bulwarks shield though.
Suppression is another point in favor of the colomnus over all other guns. Big magazine and high fire means it's pretty easy to suppress large groups of enemies quickly.
Definitely a strong candidate but some weapons have higher suppression value per bullet. For example psyker staves left click has absurdly high hit stun and suppression, and the plasma gun as well .
I'm a new player starting to play after the first new big update and in the tutorial it makes a big deal about suppression. I find it weird that videos mention that it isn't useful at all. I haven't tried that one skill, but I should. I regularly have 2k+ stuns a mission as it is.
I'm not to sure about this. I usually just get protected from gunner armies by a horde of melee enemies. Sure, it's a worthwhile option, but the situations where I need extra suppression seem to be too rare for it to be OP. Suppression a little bit like overoptimized boss killer builds. It's very very good for a very rare situation and not that great the rest of the time.
Great vid. Definitely going to experiment with that 50% node. Two follow-up questions - is it confirmed that suppression has zero cc effect on melee mobs, and does the potential strength of suppression mean terrifying barrage actually has value on the handful of weapons that can use it?
Terrifying barrage is slept on. Especially for psyker staffs. It even suppresses enemies behind you which is amazing. It's sad how often I see psyker builds with more overkill damage than other players actual damage. Sure that helps on a boss but a good team isn't going to have a problem with that. It's a team game. The reason FS doesn't include a scoreboard is because it's not about personal glory it's about how your team did. Suppression helps the entire team, as do a lot of other skills like chorus, shield, etc.
Bruiser type enemies, poxwalkers, specials, shotgunners, elites are not affected by suppression. Groaners, scab and dreg shooters, scab stalkers and reapers are. The effect on groaner is questionable though since they dont scatter into hiding like ranged enemies do and for some reason they break suppression really quickly. Ill get back to you on terrifying barrage. Ok i still think its probably not that great because it first requires you to be within 8 meters, and for the case of melee enemies (groaners only since bruisers arent affected) suppression doesnt seem to do much, and for ranged enemies 8 meter is well within melee range. You could argue that it makes the process of suppressing a bigger group when your within 8 meter much easier to do but personally i just engage in melee with them. Still waiting for the day when we get another melee weapon that can actually cause suppression, but not suck like the powermaul.
not gonna lie, I was hard ignoring suppression including the powderburn blessing because I thought its just that dumb thing that makes gunners go into cover so I can't shoot at them anymore. Since I started playing auric damnation I've started using smoke grenades quite often to counter gunners. I wonder if taking more suppression in the skill tree will effectively make them useless. They're fun though.
Oh that explains the suppression node on your build I believe it might be overkill seeing cumulous has the second highest suppression under the shredder but I can't deny it works. I think suppression gets a bad rap because most gunners run for cover and the suppression increasing blessings are actual hot garbage
ive been running agripinaa brauto on my vet for a long time, and every time i try to switch to a different weapon runs go worse and things feel worse despite me being able to kill things at range better
The plasma gun doesn't need suppression in the same way, since it punches through basically any cover. All you need to do is point at a cluster of enemies and shoot, and honestly you're more likely to kill whatever's near the reticle than suppress them, which is more of a win lol
Not really imo, because it requires you to be in 8 meters of the kill, which id argue you should go into melee at that point. It also has very little effect on groaners since they somehow instantly break suppression if theyre in melee range.
It's possible that their supression regenerates too fast for slow rof weapons to be effective. As an analogy I just shot down a bulwark shield with Achlys heavy stubber. Took lots of bullets. It didn't seem to work out for the gorgonum (Not really worth it though (also yes I know that's not supression)). Most likely damage doesn't matter, especially if you don't do damage @@orrthehunter
Is this video talking about gunners or is it also talking about shooters and stalkers. The video makes the distinction with shotgunners and nothing else.
I pretty much agree with everything except for the last part about the game being too new in the skill not being raised yet You wasn't with us shooting in the psykhanium 😤
I've tried telling people how good suppression is for months on the subreddit but everytime I get downvoted like crazy Darktide has to have one of the stupidest communities I've seen in a while
supression system makes "headshot sniper" playstyle just... miserable. You trying to pop enemy heads with all those juciy weakspot damage modifiers and enemies just turn around and cover their heads. If i had the option to pick a talent that makes my gun deal LESS supression - i would totally picked that. But yeah, if you are bodyshot meta-whore columnus user. Or you ripper gun/heavy stubber ogryn. Sure, supression is great. p.s. shotgunners dont get supressed because they elites like ragers and maulers. regular dreg and scab melee enemies as well as groaners, do get supressed. poxwalkers dont, they zombies.
and if you play the headshot sniper style. theres this game called vermin tide you will like it ALOT more. since all its ranged gameplay is balanced around that. if you NEED weakspot hits for a build or weapon to work it probably isnt good. this game isnt balanced around you constantly hitting heads
@@Anonimous37800 because they meant to be supressed. Gunners and reapers. That's something called "game balance" Shotgunners actively engage you in close combat and switch to melee weapon. Gunners and reapers, while being also ranged elites, do not switch to mele weapons
@@TannerLindberg so... we should remove all semi-automatic accurate weapons just because it's not meta. I understand that you are a meta-whore. Nothing wrong with that. You playing the best possible weapons available in the game. That doesnt mean every other weapon should not exist or work. If most OP weapons were kantrael lasgans - you would've played them. And shit talked useless autoguns and said something like "there is a game called World Z, you will like it a lot if you play gunner style"
I agree with you about suppression being powerful meta. I discovered this about a month ago when I started doing a ton of Aurics, suppression is critical to survival and "CC" tactics and I use it ALL THE TIME now!
Its interesting to see the discourse on suppression from high end players. I've seen other top tier players who hate suppression because it makes enemies duck their heads and prevent headshots when they weren't having any issue just dodging though their fire in the first place. Just as well there's obviously something to be said for passively disabling enemy aggression as its much safer and enables stronger counteroffensives. Both schools of thought have their merits, but I think the change in TTK is negligible in most cases compared with the counterplay that suppression enables.
this inst vermintide you dont need head shots for break points. unless you use a meh weapon like the revolver.
You don't, but do you think that columnus would be a better or worse weapon if it dealt the same supression as braced autoguns? That's not a tradeoff I'd take because you can kill an insane amount of enemies in one magazine. I'll take a moment to complain about soul blaze trauma psykers that take this concept to the extreme, post a video with 5 billon damage but the game lasts 40 minutes because cleaving or focus firing stuff with your team is just faster @@TannerLindberg
This is what I keep telling people. Suppression enables crowd control by manipulating enemy behavior. The fewer enemies who are *immediately* fighting you make the fights more manageable.
I can't tell you how frustrating it is to play in groups that just *do not shoot things*, let alone suppress them.
I like playing Ogryn, but I can only do so much when I'm running a Kickback or a grenade gauntlet. I just get chewed up because apparently normal shooters are just completely invisible to other people. Running vet with enemy highlight feels like a necessity.
If you go down the right tree with kickback it turns into alot of fun especially if you take the keystone addon about the 200 percent ability cool down. I basically go through the whole match annihilating gunners with braced shots of that and clearing hordes or huge patrols of ragers. Carry a knife/cleaver can't remember the number but has the serrations for other ogryns, but sometimes a braced headshot crit will one tap a crusher.
idk about you but if anything, kickback is AMAZING at range and for CC. despite being a shotgun, it does well killing smaller shooters at distance, and the fact that it can knock down pretty much ANY enemy, from Dreg Ragers to Crushers at ANY RANGE is great as well. Honestly sometimes I feel it's harder to kill enemies from afar with stubbers than with kickback.
@@sivel7493 The kickback is great for damage and knocking things over, but iirc, it's not got the greatest suppression coverage like an automatic gun can have
@@Rohtix ehhh, I mean, just hipfire, from my experience it doesn't really matter whether you brace or not, there's really not a big difference in dmg at range, you'd just get a bigger area coverage, and if you're looking to suppress enemies...knocking them down is basically just that, but simply better.
The kickback can't compete with an autogun, when dealing with spread out shooters. That is not it's job. There are better tools available. Why do these comments exist?
Suppression was busted for a while so that may contribute to why people don't bother trying.
I remember running bolter on my vet way back in the day and just ADS firing next to the crowds of enemies to basically stunlock them without even trying. I assume devs are aware of how strong the suppression is, because the latest(now reverted) changes to ranged units show that they expect players to use it. Instead I got to see dozens of people get melted by ranged, cause they think that they should just walk up to an enemy that actively shoots at them.
Psyker staff left click does crazy suppression. Always makes me cringe when I see them not spamming the orbs at gunners.
you know on every staff but purgatus i forget there is a left click but yeah thinking about it they really do suppress.
"Revolver is the best gun ever Dur hur hur. Why am I dying to 8 gunners?"
Been watching this channel for a month or so... FINALLY someone talking and showing logic instead of just "wanking" eachother. Keep up the work, could we get a Recon Las build or an example?
anyone who was riding the wave of abusing the micro SMG, the Ius Mk III Shredder Autopistol knows the power of mobility and suppression. they nerfed it’s damage but if you run a game with it and powderburn blessing (+14-20% Damage against Suppressed Enemies, +28-40% Suppression and -28-40% Recoil on Close Range Kill.) you will REALLY feel how much easier it makes the shootouts in any given map.
what second blessing should I use?
I like terrifying barrage on characters that are not great at melee cause it makes surprise ambushers stop what they are doing after you smoke one or two of them
I use the suppression perk always on my Vet. I am playing with the center line of the tree with a Ak-74... I mean with the green looking AK and I can stun everyone.
I don't need to kill my enemies or suppress them. I just bring Stripped Down and run around in circles till my allies kill them all.
good vid, i always figured suppression was kinda useless since i'm immune to it myself and death is usually the best status effect you can inflict upon the bad guys. with KTHD a single blast from a shotgun at mid-long range can instantly suppress a shotgunner. columnus mk5 does no stagger whatsoever but its suppression is very very good
that area on Carnival 2 you mentioned really does always seem to have gunners, you're right
Yes death is much better how ever if its all you have you cant be upset when eventually 7 gunners from angles reck you since you just dont use the counter play mechanic
very true. i think you left out that ogryn also has an aura that makes you deal +20% damage against suppressed enemies, which is fucking insane
Ironically, the +50 suppresion makes it harder for me to get Focus stacks because they quickly cower and move thier head around or run to cover. This only is an issue on Damnation since my team takes forever to prioritize gunners, let alone specialists and elites.
But, if I use my comfy Focus Target, the extra suppresion saves us against the mob of bullet hosers.
I just hope the game survives 5 years.
спасиб, братишка. разложил по полочкам.
Side question. How do you feel about Ogryn end game? I don't see you discuss them. With the last round of changes they feel so slow. They always were slow swapping weapons and reloading but now every other class runs faster than they do. They are a great damage sponge but do they get played endgame? I am nowhere near your skill level but trying to get better and was just curious if you care to discuss.
i dont play ogryn at all my opinion on it is invalid
I honestly feel most safe playing damnation on ogryn, because of how much stagger and reliable toghness generation I have. Also I can always see specialists easily over crowds to whip out a shredder and deal with them. Ripper gun seem to suppress gunners really easily as well. Lot of games I don't have to use medicaid stations at all.
@@TannerLindberg do you know someone who youd trust to give valid opinions on ogryn? i dont exactly trust the lfg discord but i would like to learn about ogryn meta somehow
Really interested to see your takes on Bolter. Especially if it’s worth it for a zealot to use
Its not very good.
I use bolter for fun when dealing with most things with the eviscerator. Problem though, you count on others for the ranged shots or else you have to slow waaaaaay down to snipe. I do like using it to get through a bulwarks shield though.
I could not agree more with the title, you got bored of ranged units, get some supression. Simple solution.
At launch it was nearly impossible to suppress dregs.
Suppression is another point in favor of the colomnus over all other guns. Big magazine and high fire means it's pretty easy to suppress large groups of enemies quickly.
Definitely a strong candidate but some weapons have higher suppression value per bullet. For example psyker staves left click has absurdly high hit stun and suppression, and the plasma gun as well .
I'm a new player starting to play after the first new big update and in the tutorial it makes a big deal about suppression. I find it weird that videos mention that it isn't useful at all. I haven't tried that one skill, but I should. I regularly have 2k+ stuns a mission as it is.
I'm not to sure about this. I usually just get protected from gunner armies by a horde of melee enemies. Sure, it's a worthwhile option, but the situations where I need extra suppression seem to be too rare for it to be OP.
Suppression a little bit like overoptimized boss killer builds. It's very very good for a very rare situation and not that great the rest of the time.
Great vid. Definitely going to experiment with that 50% node. Two follow-up questions - is it confirmed that suppression has zero cc effect on melee mobs, and does the potential strength of suppression mean terrifying barrage actually has value on the handful of weapons that can use it?
Just go into the meat grinder and test yourself
supression has effect on scab melee and dreg melee. As well as groaners.
Poxwalkers immune to supression because they zombies.
Terrifying barrage is slept on. Especially for psyker staffs. It even suppresses enemies behind you which is amazing. It's sad how often I see psyker builds with more overkill damage than other players actual damage. Sure that helps on a boss but a good team isn't going to have a problem with that. It's a team game. The reason FS doesn't include a scoreboard is because it's not about personal glory it's about how your team did. Suppression helps the entire team, as do a lot of other skills like chorus, shield, etc.
Bruiser type enemies, poxwalkers, specials, shotgunners, elites are not affected by suppression. Groaners, scab and dreg shooters, scab stalkers and reapers are. The effect on groaner is questionable though since they dont scatter into hiding like ranged enemies do and for some reason they break suppression really quickly.
Ill get back to you on terrifying barrage. Ok i still think its probably not that great because it first requires you to be within 8 meters, and for the case of melee enemies (groaners only since bruisers arent affected) suppression doesnt seem to do much, and for ranged enemies 8 meter is well within melee range. You could argue that it makes the process of suppressing a bigger group when your within 8 meter much easier to do but personally i just engage in melee with them. Still waiting for the day when we get another melee weapon that can actually cause suppression, but not suck like the powermaul.
not gonna lie, I was hard ignoring suppression including the powderburn blessing because I thought its just that dumb thing that makes gunners go into cover so I can't shoot at them anymore. Since I started playing auric damnation I've started using smoke grenades quite often to counter gunners. I wonder if taking more suppression in the skill tree will effectively make them useless. They're fun though.
supression is in the tutorial so figured it was always important. just wondering what tools psyker has other than guns.
All the staffs have terrifying barrage
Wow its almost like the veteran is supposed to deal with gunners rather than spamming infiltrate lol
Yeah any class can do this though even psyker with its staff m1s
Oh god that 1800% fov.
absolutely gonna be making a build with suppression in mind now, but also what gun is that? is it an infantry with modded appearance?
Columnus mk5 IAG. Dont makr a build for it, just know it works.
mfw I only like using the zarona revolver and therefore cannot suppress effectively (insert that one sad spongebob gif)
Oh that explains the suppression node on your build I believe it might be overkill seeing cumulous has the second highest suppression under the shredder but I can't deny it works.
I think suppression gets a bad rap because most gunners run for cover and the suppression increasing blessings are actual hot garbage
Would this work even better with some braced autos? In my experience they suppress a lot more then inf autos.
Yeah bags rock for suppression
ive been running agripinaa brauto on my vet for a long time, and every time i try to switch to a different weapon runs go worse and things feel worse despite me being able to kill things at range better
The only thing about suppression is how effective is with slow weapon like plasma gun
The plasma gun doesn't need suppression in the same way, since it punches through basically any cover. All you need to do is point at a cluster of enemies and shoot, and honestly you're more likely to kill whatever's near the reticle than suppress them, which is more of a win lol
Auric Maelstrom not male-storm. Just saying
Is it useful enough to take terrifying barrage?
Not really imo, because it requires you to be in 8 meters of the kill, which id argue you should go into melee at that point. It also has very little effect on groaners since they somehow instantly break suppression if theyre in melee range.
Does this apply to the plasma rife as well ? since the rpm is drastically lower
Suppression seem to work to rapid fire guns. I suspect they do not register single shot type weapons.
It's possible that their supression regenerates too fast for slow rof weapons to be effective. As an analogy I just shot down a bulwark shield with Achlys heavy stubber. Took lots of bullets. It didn't seem to work out for the gorgonum (Not really worth it though (also yes I know that's not supression)). Most likely damage doesn't matter, especially if you don't do damage @@orrthehunter
Plasma gun has insane suppression build up per round. Yes you can absolutely suppress a crowd with 1 or 2 shots.
What mods you using?
Is this video talking about gunners or is it also talking about shooters and stalkers. The video makes the distinction with shotgunners and nothing else.
The current state of DT is TOO EZ for players to use anything more than soft meta.
I pretty much agree with everything except for the last part about the game being too new in the skill not being raised yet
You wasn't with us shooting in the psykhanium 😤
I've tried telling people how good suppression is for months on the subreddit but everytime I get downvoted like crazy
Darktide has to have one of the stupidest communities I've seen in a while
I CHARGE IN
then get stun locked by a reaper and die yeah i know im used to carrying pubs :)
@@TannerLindberg God, you're such a weaselly sounding prick. What's your IGN so I can block you.
brrrrrt gang
I die
Warframe when?
Muted?
supression system makes "headshot sniper" playstyle just... miserable. You trying to pop enemy heads with all those juciy weakspot damage modifiers and enemies just turn around and cover their heads.
If i had the option to pick a talent that makes my gun deal LESS supression - i would totally picked that.
But yeah, if you are bodyshot meta-whore columnus user. Or you ripper gun/heavy stubber ogryn. Sure, supression is great.
p.s. shotgunners dont get supressed because they elites like ragers and maulers. regular dreg and scab melee enemies as well as groaners, do get supressed. poxwalkers dont, they zombies.
and if you play the headshot sniper style. theres this game called vermin tide you will like it ALOT more. since all its ranged gameplay is balanced around that. if you NEED weakspot hits for a build or weapon to work it probably isnt good. this game isnt balanced around you constantly hitting heads
Gunners and reapers are also elites, they get suppressed just fine.
@@Anonimous37800 because they meant to be supressed. Gunners and reapers. That's something called "game balance"
Shotgunners actively engage you in close combat and switch to melee weapon. Gunners and reapers, while being also ranged elites, do not switch to mele weapons
@@TannerLindberg so... we should remove all semi-automatic accurate weapons just because it's not meta.
I understand that you are a meta-whore. Nothing wrong with that. You playing the best possible weapons available in the game.
That doesnt mean every other weapon should not exist or work.
If most OP weapons were kantrael lasgans - you would've played them. And shit talked useless autoguns and said something like "there is a game called World Z, you will like it a lot if you play gunner style"