Let's Talk About Will Kassouf
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- William Kassouf has left quite an impression on the poker world after his performance in the 2016 WSOP Main Event. He didn't quite make the World Series of Poker Main Event final table, but he came very close. Along the way, he got a lot of TV time with his "speech play", constantly talking to opponents and spending lots of time on his decisions.
This has created much discussion on William Kassouf, WSOP rules, poker etiquette, Griffin Benger, Cliff "Johnny Bax" Josephy, and more. It's been a hot button issue all over social media, and many viewers of this channel have been submitting questions on how I feel about this issue. So let's talk about it.
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#GrindNation
Raise or fold your privilege, but please never check iit!
Ha Ha!
I dont understand why people tell to never check. What if I have nuts from a flop? I should bet, or maybe i can try to steal more money, why i shouldnt check in this situation?
I have to disagree. I think it’s fine to check, raise, or fold your privilege here
I’d actually support a call on your privilege in this spot
Benger is a joke. But to know that you might be privileged compared to others is important tho.
Wow imagine a whole tournament with all players like Kassouf, good luck completing a single hand
Joakim Fredriksson
Oh dry up. Any player can put any other player on the clock.
@@davidpower1583 I think you normally have to give them a minute before you can call clock? On each turn that adds up hard..
A while tournament ? I'm gonna shoot myself or starting a massacre 😂
One word... "headphones"
I found it funny Benger didn't say a word until clock was called, and then he spent the majority of the clock time berating Kassouf to prevent him from thinking clearly. Just two poker players doing what poker players do.
Tbh that makes alot of sense in terms of a strategic play
Ryan You’re over analyzing, he clearly was contemplating what to say and distracted from the hand
Kassouf gets a penalty for talking too much apparently whilst Benger gets nothing for verbal abuse 😂 the hypocrisy and inconsistency from Jack Effel is absolutely laughable. Benger even needled him for getting it in AA VS KK, a super standard spot...
Pucus Mallanti There’s no such thing as overanalyzing in poker
ou guys are idiots
According to 2+2 posts, the KK vs AA hand took 18 minutes. That's one of the things you don't get from the coverage.
18 minutes!? Goddamn! Okay, that’s more than a little excessive.
If the issue is time, they should just call the clock. Bengers whole blow up is so lame. He's a huge tool
@@TDASS281 Kassouf is the one sucking up time.
OsefKincaid i know that. Just call the clock and be done with it. No need for the whole PC police rant
@@TDASS281 I see so you're saying Kassouf is in the wrong, but your hatred boner for social liberals is so hard that you still want to blame Benger for the situation.
Benger speaking about privledge is hilarious, son of an Actress and coming from a very wealthy family... pretty sure his dad is pro sports player too.
benger is bitch
He is surely a Democrat
"I'm happy" he screams. Meanwhile Kassouf is still taunting him
Couldn't agree more.
The shit they make up out of thin air like checking one's privilege couldn't be any more cringe worthy.
Born with a silver spoon stuck up his arse and he's spewing garbage like that. Irony goes straight over their tiny minds.
@Elementary Watson You are an idiot. And a snowflake. #TRUMP2020
Has it crossed anyones mind that Benger was using reverse speech play? The guy did have aces...
Considering what he was still saying after the chips were all in, no.
He played Kassouf at his own game once the "clock" was called.
I can't watch Benger. This guy is too much bullshit and he's the one that should be banned.
Benger managed to be an even bigger tool. Well played sir.
Exactly. Benger made himself look like a complete fool.
@Mark Richardson Incorrect? How so?
Agreed... making yourself look like a bigger twat than Kassouf is even harder than winning the main event... so congratulations to the biggest twat on the planet..
I think Benger was just trying to make up some shit he’s mad about and to pretend he let Kassouf get to him to get all the chips in, because like Doug said, it didn’t make any sense talking about some idiot SJW priviledge shit.
But if I’m wrong about it he’s easily the biggest douche who have ever gotten that far in the Main Event 😄 But I’ll guess we’ll never know for sure. On the other hand, where did he even get the idea to start talking about so stupid shit. You guys might be right about this 😄
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Just trying to keep it friendly. You show, i'll show. Ive got a hand here. You know I like to gamble with the nuts, with a draw to the coconuts. 9 high like a boss. Big heart of a lion. Ive got the best hand pre-flop. No bluff. If you've got it you've got it. How far is it to Hollywood? No guts no glory. All or nothing. Lets gamble with the nuts. Legend.
St3v3z lol 😂 he is a great talker the guy could sell ice to a Eskimo
He's an annoying idiot... I read that in Tony G's voice though and it sounded so much better - that guy is the real legend.
You don’t put me on this hand.
@@SuperYtc1 Kassouf was barely tolerable and then I heard he boosted a few chips off a table. Which would be easy ammo if you ever find yourself at his table.
@signoguns bro 14.18 he says 'talk to me' just like Terry Tibbs loooool
Benger turned into PC principal in that hand and it made me end up siding with kassouf. All other clips of kassouf before that just made me cringe
Many people have said this. You are exposing something bad about your thinking process, and you don't even realize it.
OsefKincaid
Yeah, Kassouf was annoying as shit, but being annoying isn't against the rules. Can you wear headphones if you're in a hand? Easy way to drown out his talking.
Benger Kassouf'd Kassouf out of the tournament. He blew up to appear rattled by Kassouf so that Kassouf would act while emotions were high. Had nothing to do with being the PC police.
Matt Potvin yea....all SJW libtards are just bluffing us into thinking they are bluffing by screaming "check your privilege" lol
The thing is. Kassouf was penalized and threatened with more penalties while violating absolutely NO rules. Meanwhile, Benger, Josephy, Vayo, all on recording insulted him in numerous fashions and NONE were given a penalty or warning, or even a threat of so. I have been playing live poker for a living for a while now. I am old school. Players when heads up should be allowed to say anything they want to try to manipulate action and should even be able to show cards if they so please. These newer rule changes in the last 5 or 6 years or so have really downgraded poker tournaments. There is a reason it is pushing the average players away and fields in most tourneys continue to get smaller and smaller. The game needs to be fun as is used to be and that is all. Like I said, I play for a living like you. I play a ton of hours every week. Even I have continued to lose interest and enjoyment of the game. My profits are higher than ever due to internet players that play similar to your style. To me, they are by far weaker competition and easier to manipulate, due to strengths of my game style and my live experience. But even with bigger profits, the game is getting less and less fun. When Gold won the main event, players were loading the casinos. Cash games were always great, tourneys had big fields, and the overall feel was just fun. It was just a fun time to go play poker. Even losing 5 or more buy ins was still fun. But poker rooms have stepped away from that due to the constant whining and inability for most internet players to succeed and cope with live play (no offense). I can't even take players like Josephy or Vayo or Benger seriously. I can promise this. If I were at the table when Benger attacked Kassouf with that whiny dribble, I would have looked him in the eye and told him that I am truly going to verbally and physically abuse him. I would force him to the parking lot and beat his ass just for being that big of a fucking bitch at the table. Basically, I would handle it old school style for his whiny, bullish, and fun eliminating action. Poker is nearly ruined as the entire point is for it to be fun. Kassouf was much needed to help bring that spirit back.
TLDR Try watching the video and understand it before you comment. Doug read the actual WSOP rules and he clearly broke them.
When Gold won the ME, the economy was at it's peak, as was internet poker. Now internet poker is a shadow of it's former self. Tournaments are smaller now because internet poker in the US is on life support. You no longer have hundreds, even thousands of players winning seats into the big tournaments. Not to mention, people eventually get fed up with players like Gold, Kassouf who stretch the rules. While they may be within the rules, it takes the fun out of the game for a lot of people when they know a person is deliberately stretching the rules to get under the skin of other players. And if people aren't enjoying the game, they're not going to play. It's that simple. The newer rules are in place to try and preserve the enjoyment level of the game for as many people as possible from being eroded by those like Gold, Kassouf, etc. If you didn't have rules to protect players' enjoyment of the game, eventually you'd be left with just the douchebags like Gold, Kassouf. And while it might make for good television, poker is not built on television, it is built on the players. Without players, there is no game and without a game there is no television.
benger is a crying bitch. Vayo and Josephy are morons
Matt Potvin
Utter shite...You think people are there for the fun???.... I think a 7 figure payout is more likely...
Matt Potvin lol enjoyment of the game......7 people around a table forced to not speak or be put on time out till their chips run out. That's even more fun for the viewers watching tables full of people afraid to to offend crybabies. And you still can't see why the popularity of poker has tanked so bad? LoL snowflake
What is this "check your privilege" nonsense?
I'm a nice guy so I'm a help out. Will was fishing for information against bengar preflop, a couple of minutes in bengar blew up and told Will that he was verbally abusing him and to check his privilege.
It was a sorry sight for poker as a whole.
It's the ultimate non-response when you're butt-hurt and have nothing else to say.
Meti
I understood the context quite fine as Doug explained it, but still hearing it just irritated me immensely. Couple that with his standing up, going on a "I'm happy, he's miserable" rant and I just feel like telling Bengar "He's a douche, you're a douche, congrats to both of you. Now hug it out, bitches."
And we have a new winner for "the ultimate non-response when you're butt-hurt and have nothing else to say"!
It’s just that, the most idiotic nonsense there is. But I think I liked TheDivine MrM’s explanation even better 😊👍
benger says he's happy and will's miserable I think he got it backwards
Indeed.
Was thinking that exact thing as I scrolled past this comment....
if you don't like tanking, just call a clock, simple as that. simple as that
Point Blank!
You can't call a clock until someone has been tanking for 2 minutes.
That's actually not a written rule I don't believe for the WSOP, but it's a common rule of thumb.
That's what they did, but you really want someone like kassouf ags you, he'll kill your game with his motor running mouth.
It is a written rule in the wsop (wsop rule 80: "once a reasonable ammount of time, which is no less than 2 minutes has passed [a clock may be called]") they just let Schwartz away with it for some reason.
Let's face it, poker is a game but the WSOP is a also poker SHOW.
Kassouf talking was so refreshing, last time we had something like it was back in 2006 with Jamie Gold.
Now on the other hand, his decision to take so much time to act was really annoying.
Martin Brochu
Hahah!
I agree its part of the game. The world series rules are bullshit. As long as ur not demeaning or insulting the person and its heads up u should be able to say what ever.
There have been a lot of entertaining guys since Gold, but I agree, has turned into a game of nerds with no personality for the most part. I thought Kassouff was funny.
The bar for entertainment has surely been lowered if hes funny! Empty barrels makes the most noise
everyone misses the point... talking isnt the problem, its slowing the game down
Matuson was the one slowing the game down during that hand
Check your TH-cam Privilege, Doug!
+readysorted Oh shit, I am so bad at checking my Privilege
readysorted
+robert lamotta 24 hours, i had aces and dude reraised i tanked to make him think i was weak and shoved the next day on his face and he instamucked, he had 72o, said it was the biggest mistake of his life to light 3 bet me.
I swear when that guy said that I had to scratch my head... What did that even mean
readysorted AMEN! You're so correct.
check your privilege lmao
Vayo is such a freeloader. He ONLY says something, when another has opened the can of worms. The ultimate mama's boy coward!
This was proven during that terrible head's up match
Vordon Gayo
vayo bitch too
Griffin Ben86ger "I check privileges of people who look like you"
lol
Conor Bergin Lol one of the dumbest statements I ever heard.. Check your privilege??? What did that even mean. Gotta expect that from a Canadian lol
Um...no. Anybody who's ever used the term "check your privilege" is not gunning for a fight nor has probably ever been in one. The idea of that statement comes from a bunch of pussies who are scared to death of physical confrontation and want a world where those who scare them are shunned from polite society through character assassination and or, in their wildest dreams, the gulag. Bully? Fuck that guy...he's the bully that will use any thing short of having to stand face to face/fist to fist with another man. He wants a society that's so scared about offending someone (at the risk of losing their livelyhoods/families) that they'll shut the fuck up and he'll be able to go about spitting in the faces of guys who would otherwise kick his ass.
I think the only way to figure this out is to get him on a bed at 5am and have a heart-2-heart......
Then report back with a 32 min video for us.....
:D
#HeartOfALion
What you did there, I see it Papi
this fucking guy
I don't get it...
Dont forget the whisky
joeingram1 Pappi. you killed it brah pmsl
you didn't address the possibility that Benger did his outburst to induce action from Kasouf
I was thinking this too. Honestly, does he outburst with anything less than AA?? Kassouf may have been able to pick up on that. But then again he's got KK and he got a rise out of his opponent so I guess he assumes he can get tilt-called lighter for sure. However, does Benger really show up with QQ here after the whole privilege bullshit speech? It's incredibly tough to say, I just feel like he doesn't say shit without AA. I especially get that feeling when we see him slam his cards on the table in an attitude I can only describe as "I got aces bitch, fuck you!"... After launching into a tirade it just seems too perfect for him to have anything less than the stones
I think Benger was trying to induce Kasouf. It doesn't show from the way they edited the poker hand in this video, but in the original WSOP version Benger smiles after Kasouf talks about 90K and buy-ins for the ME for the next 9 years. I think Benger felt like his smile was giving away the strength of his hand, so he went into his "check your privilege speech" to manipulate Kasuof. It doesn't make sense what he said, a Canadian white male telling an English white male to check his privilege concerning talking at a poker table. People are going bat shit reacting to that phrase in the comments here, I guarantee the next time I want to tilt someone ....that is what I am going to say.
Your probably right that Benger baited him into making the call. However if Kassouf wants to use talking as part of his startegy he can't whine when somebody beats him at his own game.
maybe, but KK vs AA all the chips were going in regardless
That’s my thinking. It’s likely true and was an outstanding play.
"Check your privilege" .... Always funny how idiotic some of these PC buzzwords sound when said out loud and not just scribbled on a social media page.
Hey Doug, Please do a Poker Hands on the last hand of EPT Malta between Boika and Karlsson! If anyone else wants to see that then please thumb is up so Doug can see =]
I'd arbitrarily ban Kassouf from talking at the table...unless its versus Vanessa Selbst of course.
Unreal they won't him talk.....it's ridiculous. Even poker is becoming PC. If this was Daniel, no one would say anything.
Wsop rules are getting stupid.
the talkers are the characters if you cant handle the heat stay out of the kitchen
BongZilla Cough The guy is annoying and takes players every joy at the game. How can this be good for the game.
Bushalte Stelle i can enjoy watching poker without any speech play but when you see it in use working making players tilt its fun to watch ok the tanking is another issue but from a viewers perspective its a treat
his talking isnt the problem its the tanking
The Xmoda ya i didnt think of it until doug talks about the editing that shortens it for the viewers maybe they could use this opportunity to come up with another rule making game play that more epic! -_-
Poker should be fun for the players in the first place as they pay tournament fees and stuff and not the viewers so it absolutely doesnt matter what the viewers want.
Thanks for the vid, Doug. Good points about the tanking.
I think Kassouf's "speech play" is getting way too much attention here. Influencing players by talking is one of the fundamental strategies of poker, and it's a ridiculous thing to get antsy about. If you can't ignore an annoying player at the table, maybe it's time to choose another hobby.
If Kassouf gets more chips by tilting people with annoying talk, then more power to him. That's awesome. He won't make many friends outside the table, but there you go. That's poker.
Having said that, the tanking is not cool. Seems to be what Kassouf did across his main event. Taking huge amounts of time on each hand, deliberately wasting other people's time and pissing people off. That's uncool.
As far as the privilege thing goes, Stealthmunk's tweet said it best: ""Check your privilege" says one white male to the other, before boasting how losing a pot worth > 1million $ "Won't change his life""
Will Kassouf isnt white and Stealthmunk is jewish...
Well that's only if you assume that white males are privileged compared to other races and gender which they are not. In fact being straight white male in 2020 is the least privileged position you can find yourself in. Blacks can pull the racism card, women can pull the sexist card and white males can pull fuck all.
Also that particular pot doesn't change their life at all. What can change their lives is winning the main event and you cant do that in a single hand. Size of the pot isn't relevant either since they cant cash out
Your hairstyle is triggering me, Douggers. Check your privilege #RecedingHairlinesMatter
10/10 hair in this video Dougie
Didn't you berate his hair before? I guess you've checked your privilege since then.
Aw shucks, thx m8
Way to go Benger, I'm sure all the people who actually get abused or have been abused in their life will sympathise with you here. Someone was talking to you while you're playing a card game? How dare them!
Speech play is allowed, if someone thinks he can use that to his advantage he has right to and should use it.
Poker is a psychological game !
The question isn't is it, but should it. Jamie Gold was legal, until he wasn't. talking during your own decision tanking is fine, if I want it to end I just clock you. Talking during mine makes it more difficult for me to use my mind to calculate odds and such. I think the rule should be during my decision time I can ask for silence and be granted it. You don't have to, but any player may call for silence during that players time to act. If i want to end your talking during yoru time to act a clock will do so within a reasonable time.
+Don Ziolkowski There is something called as headphones.
The rules are pretty clear he can't talk while she's got a decision otherwise if he's not break the rules that's fine.
Shouldn't have to wear headphones if it's your decision plus how can you hear the clock getting called on you lol.
+Ghostsuit The floorman would do like kassouf hand gestures in front of you so you'll know lol
I didn't have a problem with anything Kassouf did, it's part of the game. I just found it annoying af. Annoying, but, not against the rules at all. It's part of the game!
thumbs up if you are rooting for runae and nguyen! the only chill guys at the FT!!!
Alex G thanks. But I'm not in it.
It's always good idea to watch the game before posting
It seems clear to me that by "privilege" he was referring to a person who is playing in a 10K buy-in tournament,taking advantage of,and abusing every rule he can get away with no matter how annoying,distasteful,and time wasting it is for other players.
why not call this polker hands?
Name is already taken by a Rub and Tug website based out of Kazahkstan
"check your privilege" hahahaha
think the tanking was the main thing that got everyone pissed. but if you're getting tilted by that, how do you even get to day 7?
Bro, I like you more every video I watch haha. "Top pair!" *jumping* *high fives* had me lolling. GJ
Kassouf talks to cover up his tight play..a verbal bluff so to speak...
Anyone else think the guy crying "Verbal Abuse" was himself doing counter-speech-play? He did it right after the clock was called.
Definitely my interpretation
The important thing to take from all of this is that Kassouf has raised massive issues with the rules set out in WSOP. Tanking has been a hot topic for years and is starting to be addressed but still ineffectively. Will Kassouf takes far too long for every decision but it is a simple remedy, just put a limit on action time. He is also very annoying, but he will be the first person to admit to that. I have joked with him about it, he's a nice guy just using an annoying and unpopular method to gain an advantage, if you let him get that advantage that is your mistake and a leak in your live game.
The most important issue I think, is what is acceptable in a heads up pot. The rules state that you cannot say anything to influence action(Will does this and should be punished, as they are the rules he has agreed to), what a ridiculous rule! In a heads up pot you should be able to say whatever you like regarding the hand. This includes what you hold, what you think they hold, what you may or may not do, what you want them to do, why they should do something, why they shouldn't do something. If you are going to be influenced by what your opponent says that should be an advantage to you and if it's not then again it is a weakness in your game. He broke the rules in the hands against Matuson but her reaction is over the top and it all boils down to the fact that people are annoyed by his tanking but there is no rule in place to control it so they have to seek an alternative way to complain.
Yes Will Kassouf is annoying and employs bad etiquette but he might just have had a positive impact on poker if it means that the WSOP look at their rules and make some changes. And maybe also look at there TD and make some changes there too
I'm a poker player and I really don't mind Kassouf...the only thing is if he really, really starts to waste other people's time (over his own) is where I may get annoyed and think it's out of line. Who cares about the talking but if he is tanking for the hell of it then that is bad....
I was on his side vs Benger.."check your privilege" gave me the douche chills.
I don't get how or why it went on so bad (allegedly) - I was deep in a mere WSOP circuit event and there was a complaint made (privately) to the director over a guy that was tanking every street (including Pre) as we neared the bubble and the director assigned somebody to watch him and make sure he didn't abuse his time for the sake of the other players..the problem was handled quietly and effectively...I just figured that could happen deep in the Main Event...but I've never played the Main Event...so I'm sure others know about this.
Littlecake. Then call the clock.
I honestly think Benger meant it's a privilege to play poker at this level, not some social justice issue like white, straight, male or any other illusions of separation. He just meant not everyone gets to do what these guys do for this much money which is a privilege. Therefor abusing your rights or the rules is what needs to be checked?
I still don't think privilege has anything to do with the situation. He was doing this the entire tournament and I have a hard time imagining he wouldn't be doing it if they were playing for $100.
100$ is still a privilege. Playing poker is a privilege. Some can't play this beautiful game at all. In no way did Benger imply anything about race or gender or who chatterbox likes to fuck. I just don't think he meant anything by that comment besides Kassouf was just out of line even if not breaking the rules because it most certainly IS a privilege to play poker in any way shape or form. Great video either way. Tanking needs to be addressed for sure. Cheers.
jackbauer555 Agreed!
jackbauer555 the game you are playing is already dangerous in the real world. no matter how nice you are in poker, if you are good you are directly benefiting from the degeneracy of gambling addicts, and preying on the ignorant and mathematically challenged. there is no moral high ground when you make your living playing a net negative game where the majority behind you destroy their lives so you can make millions.
Judging (OMG, JUDGING AS IN JUSTICE!) from your liked videos, WorldWardThree, I'm not sure you should be using the words "I think [...]". Trump, Netanyahu and Atlas Shrugged is a combination that doesn't work well with the concept of thinking. :)
Doug Polk Poker
"Check your privilige" is not just a social justice warrior type of statement... Kassouf had at this point in time, amoung other things (like wealth) a privilige of being sponsored... The two players share those priviliges... but only Kassouf abuses his privilige... and I guess now we know he was a butfu*k slimeball all the way through... I mean who knew right? after constantly crossing the line and being excused, never having his hands called dead etc... rediculous how the floor managers sucks up to celebs ... especially on TV...
Lol ever thought about calling this polker hands?
Lol are you the Jhon Cena that was on the ept final table stream talking about how Europe is a country and not a continent?
Benger got tilted. Otherwise his antics would have stopped after the all-in, and he would have reveled in out speech-playing the master. His demeanor didn't shift, he said more stupid shit, and he got a back rub from a bro, not a high five because he was stressed out, not pumped. Kassouf may have lost the hand, but his other game worked.
And that’s the long term game you want to win
could it be that he reacted like this because they are FINALLY rid of that annoying tanking idiot kassouf ?
'Check your privilege' - Snowflake 101.
I am genuinely shocked at how mentally soft and ridiculously PC people have become nowadays. IMO, it coincides with how easily people get thrown for an emotional loop because you said or did something on their "morally superior PC" no-no list. Fuck that..
This is one of my favorite vids from you. Great work!
+Billy Harris Thanks Billy!
+Doug Polk Poker kinda boring don't ya think?
doug thank you so much for putting so much effort in your videos which are also free for us to see.I wish you the best for your next tournaments and keep up we really like them.
@@DougPolkPoker Your hair is like a lovely bunch o' coconuts.
That second hand is cringe on a superhuman level
What an embarrassment for Canada Benger was... Doug, I thought you had a very fair outlook on it all.
Doug: I've learned much from you about playing cash poker, but here I think you're simply wrong, on several counts.
1. You're wrong on the big picture, where you evaluate Kassouf's actions primarily with regard to when he did or did not violate the letter of the WSOP tournament rules. You're not the tournament director, and the question at issue isn't whether Kassouf should be disciplined for specific rule infractions. You're a prominent poker player with a large internet following, and your claim on people's attention is what you might have to contribute to future developments in poker etiquette--and possibly even revisions in the rules for future tournaments. The question isn't whether he broke this or that particular rule; the question is whether that style of play is or is not detrimental to poker overall.
I'm amazed that neither you nor anyone on this board has raised the most obvious question:
--> What would WSOP be like if 10, 20, 30, or 40 percent of the players behaved like Will Kassouf? Isn't it obvious that if such a thing were to happen, the tournament would be unplayable? Not to mention that it would do possibly irreparable damage to the game of poker. Finally, it would guarantee a quick and MASSIVE change to tournament rules.
2. You're short-sighted to neglect the future consequences of Kassouf's antics.
a. Specifically. If the poker community really feels that "anything goes" at the poker table except for specific violations of the rules, then sooner or later, anyone who plays like Kassouf will provoke all the other players at the table to call the clock at the earliest possible moment, every time he has to make a decision; his all-in opponent will get up and leave the table until Kassouf's decision is made, or his hand is declared dead.
--> If the only standard for limiting "speech play" is the letter of the rules, then why should the only standard for limiting calling the clock be anything else? If etiquette calls for players to extend some extra courtesy to one another about calling the clock, then why doesn't etiquette also have a limiting point for "speech play"?
b. Generally. Human social life has always been based on a large number of unwritten and largely unenforced rules--often called customs, manners, or conventions. In a peaceful, polite society, where it's considered rude even to rebuke someone else's rudeness, a person willing to violate customs is like a wolf among the sheep, and can gain tremendous advantages--for a while. But sooner or later that strategy stops working. Either people close ranks and freeze him out of society altogether, or he succeeds in destroying manners, at which point people even smarter and more ruthless than he is will take him down.
3. As to Benger's "Check your privilege" comment:
I've never met the man, so maybe he is a lefty "Social Justice Warrior" who uses that phrase a lot. But from the little I can find on him on the internet, he seems more like a libertarian gamer. He's probably aware of the phrase, but not too sure of exactly what it means. In any case, I have three decades of experience with politicians, public speaking, and public life in general. When people are under stress, as Benger obviously was, it's very common for them to use the wrong word or phrase. Happens all the time. The smartest and most experienced public speakers in the world (including presidents, prime ministers, and professors) say "million" when they mean "billion," or "Australia" when they mean "Austria," or hundreds of other silly mistakes. It's amazing to see how many people have beaten up on Benger for what may have been just a pressure-induced verbal gaffe. Instead of making that obvious point, you, from the privacy and comfort of your home, presume to lecture him on how he misused the phrase.
Have you, or anyone else, simply asked him what he meant? I thought, overall, he handled Kassouf's needling about as well as a normal human being should be expected to.
In fact, I join with the (apparent) minority of poker players, who wonder how Kassouf got through WSOP without getting the living crap beaten out of him.
vayo+benger gay with each other?
"Privilege" is relevant to this discussion because Kassouf is constantly skirting the lines of the rules and expects to get away with it, and this type of behavior is more likely to be tolerated by people with privilege. Just imagine what the majority of comments would look like if Kassouf was a woman; many of the same people defending him now would instead be posting comments like "that b**** needs to shut up." "Bending the rules" is something that is disproportionately afforded to people with privilege.
I think as a whole the "pros" were way more abusive to will than will was to them. Benger especially, the sad truth is that these exchanges, Bleznick laughing about the stakes Kassouf played, Josephy advocating team play, Hallaert trying to influence the rulings against Kassouf, Benger insulting him several times. I mean some of his antics were unnecessary and bush league, but there is no reason for them to act the way they did, they are supposed to be professionals...I cannot help but feel this hurt poker as a whole.
Will Kassouf is one of those pretty rare people in life who hasn't been beaten up enough
like him or hate him but Kassouf is a damn genius. this man not only tilted everyone who sat with him and in turn improved his tournament standings but he also made himself famous.
he's gotta be a masochist masquerading as a sadist..
he seems to be happiest when people are insulting him. whenever he gets called an annoying little rat or something similar, he gleefully smiles.. it's as if he's proud of achieving the title of world's most annoying poker player. weird..
Kassouf ~aside from winning a nice payday.... has become largely more popular and will reap the benefits from being tremendously entertaining ... the next event he plays at the WSOP ...he will assuredly garner a camera on him compared to say another top finisher at the main event ... Kassouf is the MAtusow of '16 and has opened the door to marketing himself for far more attention and dollars than his counterparts... lunacy sells ... how often have we heard the terms "bombshell" and "stunning" regarding the advertising of stories on yahoo or anywhere and then you read the story and your like really? Kassouf actually is the "bombshell".... entertaining as heck. Fairness has nothing to do with this quotient.... enjoyed the stuff Doug..thanks again for your effort.
David L. He's average player at best 95% of the time talkers bust out easy
Kassouf is an a$$
Seemed likeBenger used speech play himself as soon as the clock was called. The whole privilege talk looked like straight up provocation to me
That Benger is an absolute childish pr**k, his behaviour in this hand disturbes me a lot
SirYussen Has
Something should be put in place to stop tanking in tournaments? If only there was a way to put a time limit on a person's decision or something 🤔
Missed the best part from Kassauf: "any Kings about" ? LOL
The thing is, Matuson kept talking back to him. So she was playing right into his game.
I'm happy and your miserable - said the raging SJW to the composed and smiling Kassouf
xillian344 who won the hand tho? Karma is a bitch
Haha, good point.
It's fun to watch people get manipulated into the wrong decision or the person trying to do the manipulation to reveal too much. the wsop is becoming too lame
Kassouf is the goat 😂 Clearly great for poker. This Jamie Gold or whatever non-talk rule is the worst of the worst EVER for the game.
Yes he is using speech play. Lets say you have 30 big blinds left and the blinds are going up in 10 minutes. If he keeps tanking or slow playing then you are at a big disadvantage. This means you will be getting less hands to play. Maybe you could go all in and double up with some of these hands. If he is allowed to keep doing this needlessly than you get knocked out of the tournament. Good for him bad for you. The way this is being discussed he is not breaking any rules. Yes he is entertaining to watch but if you are playing with him at your table than in my opinion this is a form of " angle shooting" and should be removed from the game.
Didn't Benger maybe throw a "tantrum" to make kassouf go all in? I couldn't tell if it was a real tantrum or not.
Would it be against the rules if someone broke his jaw at the table?
i dont like him. i dont like what he did and i was happy when he busted :D
He don’t give a fuck about you kid
I think it does in fact all come down to tanking, the amount of time wasted, if Kassouf would play his hand at a normal or at least acceptable pace, frankly I don't think anyone would give a s*** what he's talking about. But if he's just sitting there stalling deliberately, going on and on and you get the feeling that he's never gonna stop until you react, then that's annoying AF.
It's actually really simple it's live poker, you play poker with other PEOPLE, and you just can't be that SELFISH, you have two cards to play with and you are (obviously) selfish in terms that you want to take everyone's money or bust them out of the tournament, but that's why you have chips and a hand to play with, you can't be that selfish that you attract all attention to yourself, waste everyone's time, and ruin everyone's experience just because YOU feel you wanna play "speech poker". Rules or no rules, it's just something you don't do, like jump over graves or bring stinky food to an airplane.
And just something to think about, I've played lots of live home poker with friends, acquaintances or locals for relatively large amounts of money and we were shuffling the cards ourselves (no dealer) and there was inevitably some big issues when someone for example accidentally opened the river card before the betting was fully done on the turn, which believe me is a huge issue, but we managed to solve everything peacefully, the only dude that actually got punched in the face once was a dude that was tanking a lot, preflop as well, and trying to act superior and talk down to other people. So just a thought there. Be kind to other people ;)
This. There are lines.
"He didn't quite make the World Series of Poker Main Event final table"
Thank the lord! If he had I wouldn't have been able to watch. Can't stand him. And the final table would have lasted like 2 weeks.
more like 2 months
Will Kassouf vs Gordon Vayo. The match would never end....
I think check your privilege was about him being British with British arrogance.
lol what? since when you can't talk in a heads up play when the action isn't on you? Of course you can talk even if it's not your turn it's heads up, since 2000s every televised tourney you can actually see people talking in heads up, it's part of the mind game. NBC heads up tourney had everyone talking, sometimes even other people are talking during a heads up play (for example 860k pot ivey vs dwan everyone was giving their opinion on the hand while dwan was all in on a huge pot).
i think people just go mad that Kassouf talks too much and made up rules, he wasn't disrespectful in any way.
Zimzim no you can't talk when it's not your turn. Look at hellmuth getting pissed when someone raised three handed and third guy was next to.act. it influenced the whole hand. That's wrong
Some Americans really don't get British humour. Kassouf wasn't being an asshole or rude. Certainly not "abusive". He's trying to enjoy himself at the poker table. Don't see any problem with that. I think the only problem was with how long he took for some decisions.
In his defense he did just get 4 bet while holding KK. He's trying to figure out if his opponent has AA or AK. and whether to put his tournament life at stake or not. Although he did tank for a long time my point is he had a legitimate decision to make
Everyone at the featured table were babies. If you let a little british man annoy you that much, you should work on your mental game lol
Also Benger was such a loser, that's verbal abuse lol. Does he even know what that means
Does NO ONE see Benger is trying to tilt Kassouf into calling with his hand ???
After binge watching the 2016 WSOP main event. I was very impressed by Kassouf. He was amazing and entertaining. He tilted the whole table and he was wrecking them. The thing is I didn't see him make any mistakes until day 7 and I think his talking makes people respect his game less. Seriously the only mistake he made was bluffing on the river with the flush on the board. After that was the KK vs. AA but that's the way it goes. I loved it and he's one of my favorite players now.
The other players were out of line and were ganging up against him. All of them proved to be little bitches. I would have loved to see Will win that tournament.
Super Bowl Dave I absolutely love playing against folks like you.
I would have taken 10 minutes to call with the AA and i would have talked to Kassouf for ten minutes
rate your videos a lot doug and appreciate the volume of them too. Keep it up!
Thanks man! I got you!
How would you feel about a rule that said the acting player may require silence from all players at the table while it is his turn to act on request?
I think if a player is tanking, trying to dedicate their brain to calculating odds, replaying the hand mentally, trying to think it out, you forcing your questions and words into that person's head basically against their will because they can't not comprehend engllish and can't not listen is actually basically handicapping them.
A player tanking in silence probably makes better decisions than one being badgered, I can't prove that but it seems reasonable. As such having a rule that says I can command silence when I act is reasonable, on the other hand, I don't have to, it's on request so if your ok with him talking, think you can get info out of it yourself, let it go.
I think letting the player whose money/tournament life etc is on the line determine what amount of talking is ok is probably the kind of fairest system. If the tanking player is talking a stupid amount of time you can clock him, if you really want to punish him you can clock every decision he makes that sitting.
Doug I'm pretty sure Benger the Avenger only said "check your privilege" to fluster Kassouf into shoving.
I mean, nobody would say that in that context seriously right??
Underrated speech play master -- Benger!
Doug I think you needed to check your heterosexual cis white male privilege before addressing other issues in the video
Right of course, how did I miss something so simple
and stop saying ecksetera... ;-)
His intent to manipulate/tilt/irritate his opponent into doing things, it's not respectful and he KNOWS what he is doing, he's overly smug and arrogant about all of it. I think intent should matter in these circumstances, he's a prick and has no respect for other players, plain and simple
Some of it is within the rules yes but literally a very large chunk of his game is just to be a prick, lacks honor and respect for his fellow competitors
I totally agree that you should be able to talk about your hand or guess at your opponent's as long as no one else is in the pot. They're determined to suck the fun out of poker. You can only watch guys silently playing so many times before it gets really boring.
100% agree
Constant tanking is definitely Kassouf's biggest sin. But he really never gets personal or abusive with his comments. Him talking about his opponents motivations for the hand like not wanting to bust or hoping to climb the pay ladder are about as far as it goes.
Poker should have an automatic clock. Every sport has that
Russell Allison yeah but then we couldn't bitch about tanking anymore, what fun would that be!
Yeah but every other sport doesn't have a direct correlation of money made to decisions made, so you can't really just put a universal clock ya know?
this guy was an absolute gem for the entertainment value of televised poker
Btw: Privilege is not about white, male, rich or straigt people "feeling privileged", it's about them being privileged. You're right otherwise. Benger should have gotten penalized for yelling, and overly celebrating his win - that was just embarrassing. He should go back to playing video games.
HE'S RUDE.,BUT I'M FAN.
Great analysis Doug, but you didn't address Benger's pretty clear verbal abuse of Will. He raised his voice aggressively and personally insulted Will. Will may be obnoxious but he never actually abused or insulted anybody. Don't you think if the rules were applied evenly Benger (and Josephy) should have received penalties? It seems like there's one set of rules for Will, and another set of rules for the 'poker establishment'...
Imagine saying "I got under your skin" when the guy got you to go all in while having you dominated. I like seeing Kassouf talk and play, but he got his own medicine fed to him at the end.
No matter if he was in the rules or out of line, I can't stand Kassouf. And I will always rail against him when I see him play.
I think if you are not in the hand you shouldn't be able to call the clock.
+eLem3nT Doesn't sound reasonable to me, what if someone else is wasting your time?
eLem3nT yeah that really sounds not good. What if you have one person who takes ten minutes to decide and another person who is too nice to call the clock?
Doug Polk Poker Yeah, especially in a tournament. Blinds go up for everyone, not just whoever is in the hand. Players in high stakes cash games generally don't call the clock, because the blinds don't go up, and there's a lot of money involved. In a tournament, everyone needs to have the right to call the clock.
Doug Polk Poker ok never mind then
Doug I don't like you, you're a dummy head.
Kassouf is always mumbling and I don’t understand a freaking word when he talks.
I think Benger played very cleverly. He made it look like he was making the play out of frustration.
Bee Farley. Nonsense. It was AA v KK it was always all going in.
I can't really see how Benger can be taking seriously in any way. It looks pretty obvious that he's trolling and/or trying himself to get a reaction from Kassouf. I mean, what grown man at a poker table tells someone to "check your privileges"? It just looks like he's just saying whatever random stuff to counter Kassoufs nonsense babbling.
Doug Polk is completely broke and homeless. He now lives in the Hooters Hotel in Vegas for a daily weekday rate of 10.00$ He has to move out on the weekends when it goes up to 35.00$ - Then he scams drinks and tris to borrow money from people that have seen him on TV and then when he loses, he doesn't pay back. Such an insane downswing after just 1.5 years of continually losing and giving all his money away. His parents are Mormon and wouldn't allow him back home. Very sad for Polk.