Coal forge vs Propane forge a look at the pros and cons
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ต.ค. 2024
- There have been several questions about forge styles. Is gas better than coal? or is a coal forge better than a propane forge? In the long run there are many factors to consider and your personal situation will dictate which forge is best for you. In this video I hope to present some of the issues you may want to consider before building or purchasing your first forge.
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At this point, I just have your videos playing in the background when I'm having a stressful day. What a wonderfully soothing voice.
I appreciated your including the environmental impacts. I'm of the mind that anyone put off by your considering that has some major character flaw.
Thanks. I am always amazed at how easily some people are put off
Hallo, John.I look at your school of forging, it is one of the best "school" of forging, that I can to see.I don´t speak and understand English too good, but I do my bast to understand...Thanks a lot for your sharing the skills, that you got in many years of this beautifull work.
That was the most eloquent description of why blacksmiths use coal forges that I have ever heard. Much respect.
A well structured, down to earth heart felt assessment of the Pros and Cons of Coal or gas forging. As a retired blacksmith some of the Items you covered never ever occurred
To me. Certainly today there are more people hopping up and down regarding the environment. A small minority are over playing it ( not the impact) but their fanatical
behavior. I find the attitude of a broad license to destroy property to support their agenda offensive and criminally insane. My generation are of a different era and our
environment and attitudes have to change. Thanks John for your passionate appraisal.
The way you described loving the smell of a coal forge is exactly the same as the way I love the smell of chainsaw chain oil mixed with wood chip and a hint of 2 stroke fuel in the background. If they sold that smell as an air freshener, I'd have that smell in my house the whole time........ it's probably a good job I'm single....... I'd probably also have less friends coming over as well 😆
A very informative video, thank you
I love that chainsaw smell. I've always loved the smell of grinding metal. Everytime I walk into a shop that just got done grinding steel it takes me back to my childhood. I grew up playing around a metal shop who produced fancy railings for a tourist town in Idaho.
An old blacksmith showed me how to start a coal fire with just 6 pieces of paper ! I could not get over it but by golly he did. I remember helping my grandfather drill a gas well and we did not have gas for the forge to dress the drilling bits so he had to use coal. It got pretty smoky in the dog houses till the forge got going good. The bits were 6-8" bits usually.
Absolutely getting hard to find coal, especially in my area. But I still prefer it, probably because of the whole blacksmith life that was centred around a coal forge. And yes the smell brings back the memories of my grandfather’s blacksmith shop.
John,I have come from the future to congratulate you on your new electric forge.
I agree with your views John, I forge with coal and plan to add a propane forge. The nostalgia of using a 100 year old coal forge and the smells, sights and sounds are something I dont want to give up, but in the winter it is especially hard to have resonable air quality in my shop so the propane will be a nice addition .
Thanks John, really excellent thorough video. I got started on a little coal/charcoal forge and I'm now building a propane forge for exactly the reasons you set out - it's clean, compact and convenient. As someone who currently has to fit blacksmithing around a 9-5 day job, being able to fire up the forge in a matter of seconds and work for an hour without coming back covered in coal dust and smoke will mean I get out to my shop much more often during the week.
The Smell, the Want, the Need, the Enjoyment of Creativity, Your more than half way there
I much enjoyed your video and consideration of charcoal as fuel. I live in the Southeast U.S. and have tens of thousands of pounds of hardwoods all around me that I need to clean up after our somewhat infrequent snow and ice storms plus hurricanes. I am never at a loss for wood, so I burn charcoal and use that in my forge. It also has the advantage that once burned it does not rot or get infested with wood-eating insects. The best charcoal return that I have achieved yet was with split wood from wild cherry and persimmon trees. That turned out to be very nice stuff and better than charcoal from pecan or hickory. I have 500 lbs. of charcoal in my fuel box at the moment made from trees downed by Hurricane Michael.
Thats awesome. Its getting expensive running a kingsford charcoal forge hahaha. Got a gas forge on the way though.
I just want to say thank you for taking the time to make this video. I really do find your videos very educational. Thanks again.
Glad you like them!
Very good video. You covered all the major pros and cons. I especially appreciated the "romance" of it. When I was a kid just out of high school I worked at a new car dealer. Sometimes when I got to an automotive repair shop, I get a whiff of tire rubber and it takes me back 50 years to the time I worked there. When I got married I married into a small farm family. We haven't had cows for several years now so whenever I go to the country fair we always go to the livestock barns. There again, the smells take me back. I know some people don't like the smell of a barn at all but I do. I like the smell of horses, cows, and sheep. Ok, maybe not chickens or pigs, but the memories are very pleasant. As I said, I really enjoyed this video. I subscribed quite a while ago and have enjoyed them all. I like your style. Keep up the great work. Thank you.
I think they should make an aftershave with the scent of a coal forge. Kinda like there should be an aftershave scent "Hoppes #9" (They do have an air freshener for the Hoppes.)
I think I’m going to get better at charcoal forging. More wood on the farm than I know what to do with.
Would love to see some examples of welding from a charcoal fire.
I enjoyed your chain making lesson recently
Dave
One really good use for clinker is to spread it out on an icy sidewalk and driveway.
Abby Babby but then you track clinker trash inside
@@scottwood6769 my washing machine has already have enought that's just inhumane
Excellent topic. Excellent content. Nope you weren't ranting nor rambling.
I was thinking coal/solid fuel so I could use my grandfather's billows but as I am in a city surrounded by houses on 1/3 acre plots and I'm switching to electric lawn care, toys and eventually vehicles so I can put most of my oily dirty days behind me I think I'll stick to gas and hope just the noise doesn't irritate the neighbors. lol You definitely don't sound preachy, just imparting some of your wisdom on the rest of us and it is much appreciated.
helped me learn alot and now i think i can settle and start building my forge area, ive only got an anvil and 2 lbs hammer but things are in the works
I'm way late to this party, but I appreciate your insights. Hard won information, thank you.!
As much as I love gas forges, Gas prices in a coke coal mining town 600miles from any shop that sells cheaper gas making gas prices here ridiculous!!😢 I’m now heading in the dirty dusty direction but at least it’s financially viable. Thank you so much for uploading such helpful content brother👍🏼💪🏼⚒
I'm glad you included thoughts about your neighbors. Too many people are selfish and do not care about the others around them. In-my-mind blacksmithing is a community affair, and that means respecting not only yourself but others. Thanks John
Enjoyed the video, very informative. I agree with the romance. I worked in an auto repair shop back in the ‘60s while in high school. The owner smoked cigars. I now have a welding and machine hobby shop. I have never smoked and don’t encourage it but I let a friend who smokes cigars light up in my shop when visits. The next morning the aroma of cutting oils, old grease and cigar smoke immediately takes me back to my teenage days and all the found memories associated with that simpler time.
Excellent honest and helpful review - Thank You 🙏
Thank you for discussing the pros and cons of different forges, fuels, etc. I especially enjoyed you detailing the romance of the forging experience. Thank you, thank you, thank you! The romance was a definite factor why I use coal.
Just wanted to come to this video from the future and say I loved your latest video (Feb 2021) and congratulations on your induction forge!
My favorite smell is coffee cigarettes and diesel fuel ... my father was a railroad man and when we went to his work that was the smell it was also what my father smelled like coming home from work from being gone for a week or ten days ...
Thanks for the talk, practicality is going to make the decision for most if not all! I use LPG, you call it propane but is my only option unless I can source enough timber and make my own charcoal and that is impracticable! Coal is just not available, electric induction would be hugely expensive even after the set up cost as electrical power here is the most expensive on the planet. Sadly, forge welding is out of the Question except on very small and infrequent occasions!
I forge weld in propane on a regular basis. So it is a possibility with the right forge
Its too funny that u brush off the idea of getting an induction forge and then u end up getting 1. Thats how much u inspire us all. Ask and u shall recieve wen u are this awesome and inspiring. Thank u for all of ur well made content john.
John, I am new too your channel, but I so impressed with how thorough and professional you are in your vids. So far, you are the best teacher of this trade I have found on TH-cam. Thanks so much for all your effort. Joel
I really appreciate you taking the time to discuss pros n cons of various forge types. However your thoughtful inclusion of social n economical n political n other aspects of life. The depth n ramifications thereof as U discussed made watching this video very enjoyable. Thanks.
Thanks for this! Very helpful to hear your experience with the different kinds of forges. Also interesting to hear about the different kinds of coal. As a city boy watching because I have zero real world experience, this is all really interesting. The story about the tree vs fossil carbon is the best explanation of it that I have heard. Thanks for the classroom day.
I'm very thankful that I have the option as a blacksmith to take advantage of my family's coal mine I typically get it from tractor supply but the the mine is 4 hours away and if I'm gonna make a trip down there I got to take our 1965 Ford grain truck that barely does 50 mph empty but I need to get that ready and I'll probably get 2 loads of coal and use that I just need to find the time to get down there and get the grain truck ready for that type of trip I may be crazy but good coal is worth it
you are an endless wealth of knowledge, I like this channel
John, I enjoy your channel very much. I grew up with my grandad and dad on coal forges. Now as a dad and retired service member I have rebirthed the coal forge design that my grandad built and going back to one part of my roots to pass the blacksmithing legacy on to my boys. I just want to tell you thank you for expanding the horizons of others.
Thanks again John for another information-packed uber video!! I have both coal and propane. The coal forge is primarily used for forge welding and the propane forge handles most everything else. Thanks again for the pros and cons; Booyah!
I have a coal forge and like it , I find gas forges are loud and the fumes off them make me sick. I guess I am lucky I have access to coal mine with what I figure is good coal. Propane is expensive here and we do not have natural gas. Thanks for the video very informative . Good to see the finger is working.
This is exactly the video I needed to see. Very informative and well spoken. Environmental issues were a fairly important concern for me so it was nice to hear about that also.
My first forge is likely to be a small charcoal trench forge. Thanks so much for your in-depth point of view. I'm excited to start smithing and learning firsthand.
I still consider myself a beginner/hobbyist smith. I've made a couple knives, few other things. I use propane because it's convenient. My "workshop" is my garage which is also used for parking my car during the snow months. The workshop only stays setup during the non snow months. Never used a solid fuel forge but I'm looking forward to the Christmas gift my wife gave me, which is a smithing class that will be coal forge.
I'll be retiring soon and smithing will be the main thing that keeps me busy. As always, great video. Thanks.
I retired to smith full time, I now work more than I did when I was working. Enjoy the class, that is the best way to learn.
Thanks, John. I've been a semiconductor engineer for 45 years. I'm ready to never set foot in a clean room again. In addition to the class, I have a good friend who's a bladesmith. He's been helping a lot, but mostly with blades. I'm looking forward to getting into more artistic blacksmithing and this class will help a lot.
As usual John another great video. My new propane forge is on order. One thing --a big thing for me that seems like it should be mentioned on the list of cons for a propane forge is the noise level. They are generally horrible! I appreciate how you have yours set up to cut off when you take something to the anvil. You would never be able to have the quality videos that you have with the forge blasting away behind you or hear the birds outside that I have noticed in the past.
I sure enjoyed making the trivets that you made a while back. What a fun project!
Thanks for sharing all that you have learned.
I can't believe I forgot to mention the noise. That is a bug reason I get tired of working around propane forges. Mine doesn't have any special set up to shut it off, I just close the valve for each shot.
Thank you for these great insights! Very helpful that you also covered the social and environmental issues!
Another concern for anyone interested in induction forges, the electromagnetic field can be a hazard for anyone with an implanted medical device. I’ve visited a friend who works around several induction forges in a commercial heat treating shop. And they go to great lengths to identify the hazard to any person that might be on the shop floor. And some of these furnace’s are about the size of a residential oven or slightly smaller. Obviously this is a unique hazard but food for thought none the less. Keep up the great work you’re videos are highly enlightening and entertaining thank you.
But, if you’ve not subject to the harmful effects of the, what’s called, the EMF, of these devices, they are VERY fast (seconds), in heating a piece of metal that reacts to the field presented to it. There “are” furnace types that can heat Aluminum.
Btw, I’m not someone that does metal working.
I also have no vested interests in the companies that sell them.
I'd love to see that "epic adventure" come to fruition. Thanks for the tips sir. Appericated!
This is a damn thorough and well thought out video. Thank you.
Ive been doing research on getting into blacksmithing for like 3 years now and this is by far the best video related to forges.
Thanks
Thank you for all you insight and information. There is so much to think about and take into consideration.
I must say, you've done a fantastic job of touching upon key aspects of each fuel type, pros and cons, without headding too deeply into any of the potentially deep rabbit holes, of which there are a good few. You are an asset to the community, kind sir.
Great knowledge and experienced perspective. Thank you for that very much needed info sir! 🙂 👍🏿
Absolutely fantastic
Yea I’d like to know more about managing that fire flame coming out the front. Looks very formidable.
Thank you for taking the time and exploring the many facets of Blacksmithing.
As in any endeavour, the Devis lies in the details and you have made us all richer by sharing your knowledge with us.
Warm regards from Uruguay.
Interesting video, thank you. The parts I found the most interesting are your views on the economics, which are quite different to my situation in Australia. I'm currently using LPG (Propane) but it's proving far too costly, especially as my hobby forge doesn't justify the installation of a bulk tank. I estimate that for a given job the gas cost for me, using BBQ size bottles, is at least 4 times greater than it will be for coke, plus I need to keep multiple bottles on hand because they don't last all that long.
I'm about to construct a coke forge because that fuel is readily and economically available just 5-10 minutes drive away. That coke is originally sourced in bulk from interstate, where it is prepared for a steel foundry/mill and it's very good quality. It's the same stuff I used when learning to blacksmith. A most enjoyable fuel and is available to my in 40 kg (88 lb) bags.
Cost and availability are certainly variable in different parts of the world. I would like to have a good coke source, but it must be shipped cross country and its pretty costly
Yay charcoal! Looking forward to learning more.
Very helpful, thank you. My first forge is on its way to me now. A gas forge for starters, cheap as chips (fries) as we say over here in Essex, England. So looking forward to it👍😉
That is a real advantage to gas. Affordable and ready to use the day it arrives in most cases. Enjoy the new equipment.
I think you gave a really unbiased review here honestly and that's part of why I like your videos is you show multiple ways of doing the same things. I'm glad you mentioned the heat because I live in south Texas and I cannot fathom gas here and I know the cowboys wouldn't have either lol. I really also appreciate the romance aspect, I love leatherworking because the smell of leather makes me happy, same with metalworking, a shop just smells good to me and if they sold ladies perfume so I could smell like steel boy I'd sure buy it.
Hey John, thanks for the class on fuels; What about Wood Pellets there compressed at 10,000 psi. which breaks sap capsules in the fiber. They get really hot. The Beckett Oil Burner is an awsome little machine that will burn waste oil. I learned it one day and taught it the next. It actually has gears that can grind up any crud that may be in the waste fuel. Thanks
I have heard of people using them, but have never tried them myself
Great information that I really appreciate!
Great point of vue on the matter. You nailed it I think. I'm just discovering your work, and I like it. I'm always impressed to see how many experienced and talented blacksmiths share their knowledge on youtube... That's great ! Thank you
I've been watching the classics as i refit my gas forge and tweek up my shop for this comng winter. As I improve my gas forge i find i only use my coal forge when the necessity arises. Love all your content John.
In western Va we are blessed with a good local supplier of bituminous coal.
You are in the heart of coal country, in Colorado most of our coal comes from your part of the world.
Thanks for the education. It gives me something to think about.
Your presentations are really easy to understand and trust the validity of information.
Thank you
Thanks for the great information John, you are quite the teacher.
Just the info I was inquiring about. Thanks John.
Oh good, I like it when I actually answer the right questions.
Great video, John! Thanks. You touched on the economics of coal vs. gas; in a pure production standpoint, the time spent managing a coal fire isn't worth the benefits, including the romance factor. The only time I fire up the coal forge is when my project requires it due to size or shape. Also, most of the big box stores have started carrying hardwood charcoal for BBQ purposes. Very affordable, plentiful and works great in my Great Uncle's coal forge! Please keep up the great work, and glad to see you are well on the trail to your hand fully mending.
In general I agree that propane is the way to go for any production work. However, I Know there are plenty of highly productive full time smiths out there that only work in coal, coke or charcoal. Some of these are the smiths whose work I admire the most. I think that when you work in the coal fire everyday, maintenance becomes so second nature that it takes much less time. But for now, I still use propane for most of my work.
I have purchased bagged charcoal, it good fuel, but tends to be rather expensive, about $30 for a full days work. Worth it if its all you have. I keep hoping I will find someone within a days drive producing charcoal on a commercial scale.
Very Informative video. Thank you Mr. John. Always learn something new watching your videos
Great video, great information👍🏽 Ive used charcoal for 11 years now but just got my first propane forge, haven’t even fired it up yet. Looking forward to it, but I kind of expect Ill always prefer my solid fuel forge for the same reasons you mentioned.
This is an awesome video man! Thank you. I am just getting into smithing. I love your videos, they have helped me a lot.
Glad you like them!
Spot on! Thank you Sir.
I have both and they both have their pros and cons for sure.
good points (+&-) i'm building a gas forge next to my coal one. i don't have a half hour to light a fire.( and i wanted to build one anyway)
we smiths may be just a small part of environmental damage but we ALL need to do something. small steps will still get us there.
you mentioned feed corn fuel, here in Oregon we have wood pellets. for home heating. I haven't tried it in a forge.. it cost me last week it cost me $6.00 per 40# bag for my pellet stove in the house. good luck and have fun!
This video was fascinating, I’m just a knife maker who bought a propane forge for hardening so all of this is pretty inconsequential to me, but fascinating none the less the part at the end discussing social and environmental impact was especially cool, this actually makes me want to try forging something.
John, excellent video. I appreciate the talk at the end about the environmental issues. This may not be important to everyone, but it is to some of us and you covered it well and without prejudice.
Very nice video! Thank you!
Great info! Appreciate you making this video.
I have two induction coil units but they have never been used for heating pipe. And they are over kill for a work shop like a black smith shop. they are 20 KW units and are three phase. I can get units smaller and that will run on 220 volt single phase. and you can design how ever you want to drap your copper coils. It would be really easy to adapt the use of my induction units for forge work. The thing is that you can set the temperature of your metal to within 1/2 degree and actually melt any metal you put in it if you want. I can turn any ferrous metal into molten magma in minutes. and do it to exact and I mean EXACT temperatures. GO for it..
If the budget ever allows, I am sure i will give one a try. Or if I'm lucky someone selling them might like to let me demo one.
Thank-you John, your insights are interesting and as always informative Sir
Thank you for an excellent 'class' on the different types of fires for blacksmithing. I learned on an anthracite coal forge. A 'cowntown' living reenactment museum blacksmiths shop. It was awesome. I miss the smell too.
My blacksmithing group, would make product all year long, then go to bigger market malls, set up a small portable farriers forge, bang some iron an anvil and gather a crowd for selling, mostly during the Christmas season, and occasionally around Father's Day, and Labor Day / County Fair season. The smell of the coal forge was part of the draw.
My best sales were of small $20 dollar items.
I only have coal forge , But will be making a ribbon burner before cold weather.
But will keep coal for back up,If I built hammer or big stuff.
Again thank you Sir
Great video. I'm currently in the planning stage of building a new Forge in my shop and this video on top of your others are wonderful for people like me. Cheers from Alaska
Thank you for sharing those thoughts, have a blessed and great day buddy.
That was , to me anyway a great description of romance, as you indicated you were not referring to a romance with your wife. One romance is not the same as another. With romance there is also passion, and you most certainly have that. it's because of that is why i enjoy listening and watching your videos. there are a lot of information videos out there, but the best ons are from good people like you, who have the passion to give a person not only info, but a desire to learn and perhaps experience a romance . i am passionate about the things i do, however not sure if i could explain or describe the romance. anyway i enjoyed this video i subscribed and look forward to more. thank you!
Very nice comment, welcome to the channel.
I enjoy coming back and looking at these older videos. I wonder what you of 2022 , would have told you of yesterday about induction forges?
thank you!!!
EXCELLENT THANK YOU YOU DO GREAT WORK STAY SAFE
Hi John just came across your channel.. Very informative. I'm looking to get into blacksmithing and knife making as a side hobby. By trade I'm a drop forger at Channellock in meadville PA. We use induction forges.. They are very fast.. When I first fire it up it only takes me roughly 4o seconds to get a 1080 bar to forging temp. It spits out a bar every 8 seconds and the 5th bar it's ready to go.. Very good channel really enjoying it.
I live in Florida and I’m lucky to find lump coal. Lowes has it for $12, for a 15lb bag. I tried finding anthracite coal, but that got me a laugh everywhere I asked about it. They’re supposed to carry it at Tractor Supply, but why would they need to here? We have like one week of almost cold weather. Tractor Supply did have plenty of whole kernel feed corn, in 50lb bags for $13. It’s similar to anthracite to get started, but it produces a beautiful flame like I’ve never seen before. The weird thing is.. it produces coke, instead of popcorn.😆 You have to keep the air on the whole time or it will go out, which is good when you’re done. I’m new to this so I haven’t actually forged with it, I just burned a couple fires to cure my diy refractory cement, and to produce plenty of coke, so it doesn’t take me a half hour to start a fire. I did get a piece tool steel up to critical heat to soften it, but that was all I’ve done so far. Honestly though, the lump coal is lighter than corn, so I seemed to get about the same amount as the corn. I have my forge set up to use wood as well, so I’ve got a stock of all three fuels to see what works best for my usage. Here’s the best out of only two videos I found about using corn as fuel.. th-cam.com/video/T-UgxYiiAWI/w-d-xo.html ... Thanks for the wonderful videos. It’s nice to learn from a real pro.👍🏼🔥⚒
Great video helped me a lot thanks for making it
Propane today is very expensive considering the astronomical rise in fuel prices. Coal is also now very expensive and hard to get here on the west coast. I've cut back on using coal and now only use it when forge welding. I've mainly been using the gas forge and putting up with the cost. I've been blacksmithing for over 30 years and never tried charcoal. Think I'll try it out and see how it goes. Good video!!
Propane is still cheaper than coal in our area but I am planning more projects in the induction forge these days.
This was really helpful thank you very much for making this video
That John, really was a nice run through of the different options that I as a newbie is considering. Thanks a lot for your help. Cheers from Denmark: )
I*'m glad the video was helpful.
Well done! Thanks for a lot of good information.
As always, wonderful video. Thanks for creating and sharing this highly informative production.
Awesome Bear! Charcoal for the win! Thank you for your observations.
Really enjoy your videos but I'm sure you hear that a lot, watching this video I found out your in colorado, I was in Puebla this evening, but I live on the western slope, little place called Paonia, I'm just getting started after I retired and would love to pick your brain sometime if your ever back over here
Love Paonia
Here in Europe, where i live you can still get large quantities of excellent double washed coke and coal for forging, charcoal is kinda pricey. i am going with propane for most work, it's the least hustle overall to get and handle. but for bigger stuff i keep some sacks of coke.
Great video, I will use both in the long run at the moment I use charcoal, won't be able to afford a gas forge for a while, really expensive here in Australia. But will make my own like my charcoal forge.
Do you make your own charcoal or buy it?
One thing to consider is that some places with air pollution problems may have a ban on using anything fired with solid fuels. Sometimes that may just be on certain high pollution days or it may be an absolute ban. Some Colorado ski towns prohibit new installation of wood burning fireplaces (gas logs are OK). Check your local regulations. Also, in some places the local Fire Code may restrict what kind of forge you have and how it may be installed, e.g. you may need multi walled pipe to go through the roof for the chimney of your coal forge. Again, check local regulations.
Again, a very knowledgeable and informative video. I realise you made this a long time ago, but I only have a few hours a day to do things other then work and dad. After saying all this, you were talking about the expressiveness, and overall hard to get electric induction furnace. I had built one from an old electric heater, some sheet metal, and some kaowool (with various other parts) a few years back. The blueprints for which I easily found online, and spent less then $200 on. I used it to smelt down aluminum cans into ingots. It didn't last long, as I'm electrically illiterate. However, if me being some dumb kid at the time could build 1, I'm sure a master craftsman such as yourself would have no problem building and operating. I know I for 1 would love to see you at least try. Just food for thought.
Keep up the wonderful videos, and beautiful works. Thanks again for your wisdom.