Which is true, but tell me you *wouldn't* think Rocky is basically Philly Ryu if all you knew of him was the *idea* of Rocky pushed by Rocky 4, arguably the most well-known of the series due to just, sheer and utter meme saturation. This isn't a generational misunderstanding, this is a misunderstanding caused by the series' own success-induced schizophrenia.
yeah, i’m confused whether woolie is legitimately criticizing rocky 1 for being “dated” or jabbing at it for fun nobody in rocky 1 besides adrian is completely innocent or a wholly good person. it’s what gives that movie some real personality and uniqueness still for its own genre
I'd say the zoo scene in Rocky 2 is absolutely intentional. It's not a date-Rocky walks there to get out of the hospital for a bit, and when Adrian asks why he'd come to the zoo in the middle of winter Rocky looks off whimsically and says "I dunno. I just always really liked the zoo." Rocky's the butt of the joke there, not Adrian.
Honestly it's kind of a shame that Rocky has become so iconic and has this stigma now when Rocky 1 really is this scaled down piece that Stallone himself wrote while being a struggling actor in New York that ended up winning Best Picture at The Oscars.
Rambo 1, or better first blood is the same thing. A more low key movie with insane narcissistic 80s action follow ups. Well Terminator 1 for that matter as well.
@@Atrahasis7 T2 barely holds it together because there's a lot of nice character stuff in there. But yeah, First Blood is - like Pat says - utterly heartbreaking from the get-go because John Rambo is just so, so broken, but it just becomes ridiculous action movie trash by FB pt 2.
@@comingupooo Oh, I'm familiar with the book but understood the changes for the film; I just wish 'Rambo' as a franchise didn't go beyond First Blood because even with some flaws, it's a very compelling character piece. Even the all-out action scene at the end isn't over the top, it's pretty much perfect.
One of the best scenes of the series comes from Rocky 2 where Apollo is arguing with his manager (who's played by an actual retired boxer) about winning the fight against Rocky. Like Pat said, Apollo is SO SALT about the fact he didn't just destroy Rocky in 2 seconds, the fact he actually put up a respectable fight has wounded Apollo's pride so deeply, he's willing to throw away everything he's built just for another chance to fight him. It perfectly highlights the Michael Jordan psychotic athlete mentality, when you're literally the best in the world, winning is no longer enough. You have to win in such a way that your opponents are demoralized and humiliated. It's not enough to succeed, others must fail. The first two movies do a great job of portraying the toxicity of that mindset.
Honestly, it was more so that people were calling him a fake. Lol At first he was mad that Rocky put up more of a fight but all that hate mail? I wouldn't blame Apollo for feeling like he needed to prove himself.
Rocky 1 has so much heart put into it, Stallone sold his damn dog just to be able to make it. Of course the happy ending was he bought his dog back after Rocky was a hit for triple the price he sold the dog, but still it really shows how desperate he was to see this made his way.
I think someone once said the Rocky/Creed reflects Sylvester Stallone's career. 1 being an underdog, 2 wondering if this a fluke, 3 getting bigger and sillier, 4 coked out and on steroids, 5 washed up, RB comeback, C1 stepping back and letting others take over
My favourite part is the mafioso Rocky is working with, guy understands rocky had a rough time, poor guy cant even break another guys thumbs. And while being a criminal he still helps rocky and supports him. And the ice skating scene with adrian is so cute, " Hey Rocky why do you fight? "Cause I cant sing or dance.". Its almost like a poetic realism european movie, cant imagine how sly did it, or maybe hes smarter than he seems to be really.
I think its actually a bit of IRL self awareness on the part of Stallone with that comment. He knew back the how unlikely it was that a person with a partially paralyzed face could succeed as a dramatic actor, yet he tried anyway.
I always forget how like, weirdly supportive the mafia guy is to Rocky! But at the same time he's not comically nice or anything, he's not paternal, he's not a father figure. But he's also not cartoon-evil! For as much as Woolie and Pat feel like Rocky 1 is absurd, it takes a lot of care to build out its characters and not make them one-note stereotypes.
Rocky 1 and 2 = Instant classics, 10/10 Rocky 3 and 4 = Action flicks Rocky 5 = Uhh... Rocky Balboa = Beautiful return to form Creed 1 and 2 = Rocky 1 and 2 for a new era.
I hate this statement, but kinda feels like you guys missed the point. Went in expecting an inspirational sports movie, but got a dirty drama, and are judging it by the sports movie view. Like, the ending wasn't about a fantasy of "No you really could have gone pro!", it was about Rocky proving to himself that he has self worth. He was able to go toe to toe with the champ, and he's not just some illiterate bum on the street breaking thumbs for a living.
I get slamming 3 onwards for being ridiculous but 1 & 2 are great movies. He's not some young kid who believes he can win the big one, he's a deadbeat boxer who's been a loser his whole life. He's beat up, doesn't believe in himself & everyone treats him like shit. He gets a shot at Apollo purely because someone drops out & Apollo wants some local bum to fight for publicity, Rocky doesn't even want to fight him. He's obviously promoted as the local hero for the fight because that is literally 100 percent the reason Apollo chose him. In the end all he wants is to not get knocked out. Say what you will, it's obviously outdated since it's almost 50 years old, but it's a truly brilliant movie. Love y'all. Can't wait for Woolie to see Thunderlips!
i don’t enjoy 2 as much as other people. but woolie’s jabs at rocky 1’s “datedness” feel weird, yeah it’s a movie entrenched in the back alleys of 1970s philly. that’s..the point? obviously some things are dated but i think it’s pretty intentional how weird and unheroic rocky is as a character. it doesn’t matter because hes endearing as a character for how much hes just an underdog in his own shitty world
I think that first movie is a masterpiece, that is especially relevant today. Yes, it IS VERY 70s AND WEIRD, but the story of two people who don't fit in, have been beaten down their whole lives and who have nothing, finding respect for themselves and eachother through shared overcoming of their personal adversities, is so beautiful and perfect that I don't think a youtube comment can do it any justice. Not to mention that it bucks the writing trends of so many movies that it inspired, by letting you really spend time with Rocky, and Adrian to a lesser extent, so you know how low he really is. There's no "refusing the call" scene, for example, because Rocky never had a call to refuse before. That's such a huge part of his character and I think most people can really empethize with him, in that regard. To be honest, this kind of analysis is probably better suited to video essays. "Just Write" did a great video on it, back in 2017, that really highlights all that Rocky does so well. It is a must watch, just like Rocky.
@@23kurtzy No, he lightly reprimanded Rocky for going too easy on a guy who owed him money, and when he found out Rocky was interested in Adrian he gave Rocky extra pocket money to take her out.
I still love that one Family Guy skit with Rocky Balboa challenging some Aliens on Mars, it’s really inspiring and very Rocky: “There’s no oxygen on Mars!” “Yeah? And there’s no oxygen for him either. If he wants a fight, he gets a fight”
Rocky 1 and Rambo 1 are the two best examples for "really good, really serious and emotionally charged movies that kinda just went totally different directions later".
While Rocky 1 and 2 are objectively better movies, I have the biggest soft spot for Rocky 4. It’s just filled with delicious 80s cheese from the Cold War motif to the sheer amount of montages. It’s just a fun movie to watch.
I rewatched Rocky 1 last summer and I will say the movie still holds up imo. Mostly cause the characters seem real. The story seemed real. It is probably the best example of an underdog story. I will say that apartment scene in a modern context is uncomfortable as fuck!
Really bummed me out that the take you would have from Rocky is that everyone in it is a shitty human being instead of just everyone in it is a human being. Everyone in Rocky aspires to be more than they are that's what the film is about, even the mob boss who in a lesser movie would just be a monolithic force of corruption is this guy who feels weirdly protective over Rocky and wants him to have a nice date. Obviously we know he's a bad guy, I don't need a movie to break down for me that the mob boss is a bad guy, I can infer from the fact he's a mob boss with leg breakers, I don't need a scene where the Mob Boss and/or Paulie are punished when it's more interesting to see how each of them have aspirations and how it effects them positively and negatively. Also if you're going to take on the toxic masculinity of the "seduction" scene it's probably best not to follow it up with an expectation that domestic abuse issues should be solved with physical force or the movie is morally suspect and "aged".
Series like Rockey go through this change where it's divided up between where it started and what it became. yu-gi-oh is a perfect example of this where season 0 feels alien to the series it created. And the weirdest part of that is what it became is what most people will remember and know about.
2003 is a good middle ground. It's the closest thing to a direct adaptation of the comics that TV will ever get (Of course that eventually ran out of material to adapt and went It's own weird way)
Mickey arguing scene is really uncomfortable and amazing because of how depressing it is, when he says "iam old" you can feel the angst, depression and remorse oozing out of the old man. Which makes the reconciliation all the more impactful. And I love how its shot from a distance where you cant listen to both of them. Cause you dont need to, and its personal between them.
70's film making is interesting in that audiences had grown tired of big spectacle, perfect moral heroes, and overblown productions -- and instead turned to smaller, grittier, intimate storytelling about flawed humans. Films like Taxi Driver, Rocky, The French Connection, The Exorcist exemplify this. We have circled back around to the more grandiose storytelling where all the heroes are morally just, impossibly perfect, striving for a utopia we will all someday partake in if we just believe in them hard enough. Even villains are cast in a sympathetic light now. Some of the old 70's style lives on in indie film making but that's reserved for a much smaller audience. TH-cam critics are looking back at 70's films now and criticizing the writing for showcasing "toxic behavior." Have we collectively evolved past inherent human moral weakness to the point where these criticisms are justified? Or are we deceiving ourselves in the name of corporate sponsership and viewer engagement? idk I'm drunk af right now and felt like rambling.
I think the "pointing out toxic behavior" issue was born from massive amounts of people born *after* the period these characters were made taking them out of context and turning them into role models. In turn, this caused people with *slightly* more media literacy to go "by the way these are the bad men do not base your personality around them" - which sounds stupid if you *do* get the movie, but might just be a revelation to the suprising amount of people who didn't.
The original Rocky is my favourite film of all time. It's so human, so relatable, so grounded and touching. Everyone remembers the fights, but its the moments like when Adrian asks Rocky if he wants a roommate and he simply says "absolutely.". That movie is special, there is nothing else like it.
Rocky tells Paulie “it’s cold outside, Paulie.” because he knows that Paulie is bitter about Rocky getting the shot at the title plus can’t risk getting injured before the title bout to a guy with a bat Rocky also tells Adrian the reason they go well together is because he’s dumb, and she’s shy. It starts when Rocky tells her about being Southpaw, the dislocating of his finger, takes off her glasses, and it comes to a head when she goes off on Paulie leading her moving in with Rocky so can give his “If that bell rings, and I’m still standing, see. I’ll know for once in my life I wasn’t just some bum from the neighborhood.” speech. Micky tells Rocky he had the makings of a champ, but wasted it on being a two bit enforcer. Now that Rocky got the championship opportunity now the tables turned for Mick because he’s 76 years old which is why it makes sense for Rocky to be mad for him being treated badly even getting his locker cleaned out. Apollo Creed was a showmen which is why he wanted to fight someone with a name “Italian Stallion” on thanksgiving. Which is why he ignores his coach about fighting southpaws, and when the tv is showing Rocky punching the meat. A reporter asks Apollo about the implications of fighting an Italian on thanksgiving to which he responds “Is it weird he’s fighting a black man on the day of this country’s founding.” Also “If he(Rocky) can’t fight at least we know he can cook.” Tl;dr I found it weird Woolie frame Paulie’s saving grace is “he’s family”, Rocky’s relationship with Adrian as creepy, his outburst at Micky as odd, Mick being reduced to “I’m old”, and Apollo being the antagonist because of course he is. Also Pat for describing Rocky and Apollo relationship in 3 as homoerotic they never splashed each other. Could be wrong but I’m pretty sure they named the soft core film “Italian Stallion” after Rocky was a success
@@Sarged40 Even after selling his dog Stallone refused to sell the script. The studio offered him 330k they eventually caved, and gave him a shoe string budget. Which led to the trunks on Rocky’s banner being the wrong color, and during the running montage in one take so when the guy throws an orange Stallone actually caught it
You're right about everything except how unintentionally homoerotic that scene is in Rocky 3, because even if they don't splash fight each other, holy shit slow-mo beach hugs, multiple repeated close ups on pumping glistening thighs, Apollo creed wearing a down to the nipples tank top and short shorts, Rocky wearing a down to the nipples tank top and short shorts and an 80s gay club headband, synchronised boxing dancing behind each other while Creed looks directly at Rockys ass, running on the beach together at sunset. Apollo at one point wears a tank top with a rainbow on it.
I don't know how you didn't fall in love with Rocky the character during the ice-skating scene. It's such a beautiful moment of showing that these two people who aren't considered "normal" by society realize that they have found someone that's just like them.
Rambo has the same progression. The first one is an intensely serious psychological anti-war movie. The sequels are the very thing the first movie was against.
22:00 "It takes place in the world where Bill Burr tore down the city of Philadelphia." Not only that, but Joe Frazier himself shows up in the first Rocky.
Rocky 1/2 are legit some really good Dramas. bit dated, yet very good. Rocky 3 is a good story just not executed well. However, that fucking bromance is incredible. Rocky 4 is beefy cheesey american anti-communist glory Rocky 5 does not exist Rocky Balboa is good, but not as good as its predecessors imo Creed is so fucking good.
I was cheering for Adrian in the kiss scene the same way I was cheering for Rocky in the fight. That scene deserves a little more nuanced discussion than "lol this is rape, lol sexual awakening doesn't change people's personalities."
Yeah, honestly they really downplay the slow buildup of Adrian's self-confidence through that first movie. When Paulie finally has that blowup and she just starts screaming at him and pushes him down into that chair? That's an incredible culmination and a moment of catharsis for that character! I totally get being uncomfortable with some of how their relationship builds, it is absolutely riding the line, but it's to Stallone and Shire's credit that it stays on the right side of the line the whole way through.
Man I watched Rocky I for the first time fully 2 or 3 years back and I really loved it. Definitely got the 70s creeper vibe but it took itself so seriously and was so uplifting that it still turned out good.
It reminds me of a similar thing with rambo where the first film was about soilders being abandoned once they've sevred their purpose the abused by law enforcement and the suffering the vietnam war inflicted on them that they're expected to just endure in silence. Only for the sequels to go "oh fuck yeah merica bruher yets go kill of dem fuckin commie lovin veitcon yeeee haaaaa"
Same with death wish. Like if i remember rightly the first death wish movie was a more sober look at vigilante justice, like Charles Bronson just snaps and he's not some soldier or action man, he's just an architect pushed past the brink of despair.... and then the sequels happened where he's fighting street gangs in some apartment block that looks more like a mad max set
These are some of the weirdest takes on a movie I've ever heard. You're surprised the 70's drama examining flawed characters and settings doesn't line up with 2022 armchair viewing? Always love you guys but just had to say something. Rocky is my favourite drama of all time and a beautiful movie about finding your self worth. I feel like you may have missed a lot being distracted by how "outdated" it was for you.
I feel like Woolie's reaction to Rocky being a pretty "standard" 1970s character drama (with some boxing in it) instead of "what if Ippo was in Philly" speaks more about what the idea of "A Rocky Movie" has become in the "collective consciousness" (especially if you haven't seen it) than anything else. Kinda like, as many other comments have been saying, John Rambo is now *the* american action hero despite him being born as a scathing critique of american militarism and the way Vietnam was handled. Turns out memes do shape our culture.
I think the best thing to call a gritty (semi) grounded drama from years ago is dated because that means it picked up the warts that existed at the time. In regards to the apartment kiss scene it is uncomfortable but also does a good job of showing the reality of the situation. Look at a some old couples and commonly one is a gruff/brutish guy and the other is a shy lady and you wonder how they came to be, it is almost certain to have one of those moments (uncomfortable kiss scene) in their story.
I apologize if I sound pedantic, but I would like to point out that there are still couples like this, I don't think it's a generational thing it's just a human thing. Filmmaking of the 1970s tended to reflect daily life in a grittier less sympathetic way than movies of the 2010s and 2020s. Whether or not that's good or bad is personal taste, I just wanted to point out that people still act this way it's just not portrayed in movies that much now especially in any kind of sympathetic way.
@@darklyroaring absolutely, I would've said so but I like to keep any opening comment I make as concise as possible. Thank you for your reply as it further drives home the point. Also, I find Rocky and Adrian's relationship rather beautiful because of how uncomfortable it is. These two people are not so much made for each other as not made for anybody else. Adrian is someone painfully awkward but also so asocial she borders on (or even is fully into) avoidant personality disorder. Every signal she gives the outside world is saying "please, leave me alone" and only someone as socially inept as Rocky would not understand a single one. I see why people have a problem that first kiss scene as I was super uncomfortable; but that's to be expected from two of the most socially maladapted people in a literally uncomfortable setting. Discomfort is needed but it is rare outside of the "body horror" genre to be used in modern popular cinema.
Adrian turns away from the kiss because the actress had a cold and didn't want to give it to Stallone. The scene wasn't supposed to go down that way as written. They kept that take anyway.
It's really very simple: Rocky I and II are 1970s America, and Rocky III and IV are 1980s America. Those decades were night and day. The 70s were gritty and uncomfortable, and the 80s were brightly colored superficial optimism. We unfortunately don't really have a 90s Rocky, because V is still supposed to be set in the 80s. And is also terrible.
In Paulie's rant, Rocky does put himself between Paulie and Adrian to make sure he doesn't hurt her. When Adrian starts standing up for herself, though, he doesn't interfere, because it's her battle to fight.
I think that rocky is fascinating a because Sylvester Stallone wrote it for free because it was his passion project. Also learning about Stallone's early life it really does seem like rocky is a self insert written by someone who feels like Rocky Balboa is the greatest man ever.
True story from my pops (RIP) he told me he was in the theater for the second Rocky movie and busted out laughing when he saw Rocky take Adrian to the zoo. He was given weird looks (as to be expected in a theater I get it) but, then he put on his best Stallone accent, and yelled “take her to the zoo“ and the whole audience died because, they remember the comment by that guy in the first movie. I asked dad, (I was 5) why that was funny, and of course being the guy of the 70s, he said those people love the zoo. I love my dad.
Man, Pat can't help but over-hype/psuedo-spoil shit Woolie clearly states he's yet to watch, huh. You can see Woolie's expression sour as he attempts to reroute every time.
its strange and a little sad listening to chewie and fuckface discuss rocky through their generational lenses. they should listen carl weathers talking about how hyped he was to play the antagonist, and why
Rocky 4 makes more sense when you realize it's backdrop is the cold war of the 80's. Rocky has got to be the first man to stand up to Russia. Drago kills former world champion then goes IDGAF on national tv. Rocky gonna show em you can't just do what you want cause you got nukes.
I remember watching the date scene with my dad and he actually paused to lecture me and my brothers on "No means No" and that we will just go to jail if a girl accused us.
It's hard to answer what my favorite Rocky movie is, because I genuinely think I is the best for being as genuine, raw, and uncomfortable as it is, but I absolutely have the most fun watching IV.
@@jphugo15 Woolie definitely has snobbish tendencies, and it can be pretty annoying when he acts like he knows more about writing than he does and also when he completely disregards alternative interpretations/artistic intent. The thing that redeems him though and keeps me coming back is that he's at least somewhat self-aware and won't deny it when he messes something up or gives false critic on a subject. It helps that beneath it all is a sincere love for the craft behind stories.
@@ProjectSudoku That's true. That's also while I'm still around as well. But it's times like these when I wish there was another, more knowledgeable member of the podcast present to challenge some of the views he and Pat have. It's way too much of an echo chamber sometimes.
Rocky 1 is so damn good. I enjoy all of the Rocky movies, even 5 is completely watchable. But yes, the date scene is veeeery uncomfortable to watch, and I'm thankful the movie completely drops that aspect afterwards.
Fun Fact: Predator was created based on a Hollywood inside joke for Rocky 5 that after Rocky beat a Russian Superman, logically his next opponent should be an alien.
Watched the first two Rocky movies with a group of ladies recently who had no knowledge whatsoever of Rocky beyond vague awareness that it was about boxing. There were multiple gasps and clutched hearts. Those first two movies are fucking tender as HELL and they were not prepared at all for how much focus the relationship stuff gets. I always tear up when he’s reading in the hospital in 2! It gets you right in the heart!
I legit had no idea there was a directors cut of rocky 4 until pat brought it up and just finished watching it. Good time, and gotta say probably the superior version of the film
I remember being so pleasantly surprised watching the first Rambo movie and being legitimately weirded out with the movies being associated with hardcore violence and guns.
Woolie has heard wrong, Creed is just setup for Creed 2, the movie thematically links the generational trauma of three families together and ends with a fight that cleanses them all and allows them to move on. It is one of the best blockbusters ever, thematically and technically, and I’m honestly bummed they didn’t let it be the series finale.
Talking about camera work in the rocky movies. Rocky is the first movie that uses a steady-cam. Kubrick actually called the guy in charge of camera work and gave him a bigger budget son they could improve on the technique he used for rocky and that gave us the modern steady cams
Rocky and Rambo are both in the same boat where the first one is this very human tale of struggling with internal pain and insecurities and trauma, but then they both end up just becoming cartoons of themselves as the series go on.
I recently heard the story of my niece as a child watching Rocky on tv with my sister and she was so upset at the end of the movie she was inconsolable that Rocky lost. My sister was trying to explain why it didn't matter if he won or not but she was just mad and crying so much they had to go out and get a DVD of Rocky 2 to watch it that night.
To be honest I always thought it was an east coast thing how they spoke and treat one another especially how odd it was when Ricky took Adrian to his apartment to force himself on to her but I’m not sure
I think it's safe to say that the Rocky franchise also got Rambo'ed: First Blood is about a Vietnam vet with major psychological trauma, lashing out at a society that doesn't want or need him anymore. Every other subsequent film is "Murica fuck yeah!"
I watched Rambo 1 a few years ago, it's a damn tragic story, every minute that passed and the culmination of the story just made me think "this man seriously needs a hug, to rest and to move to a country without easy access to weapons, it's a cruelty to try and force this ptsd riddled hero to hold a weapon again". The idea that this man would go on to not only do the opposite of what I hoped but become THE icon of the world's most dangerous soldier who will mow down his enemies by the hundreds is honestly shocking,.
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Rocky is a drama about a man rediscovering his self-respect of course he doesn't act like a hero
He's supposed to be the anti-anti hero
And that's what makes it so amazing.
Which is true, but tell me you *wouldn't* think Rocky is basically Philly Ryu if all you knew of him was the *idea* of Rocky pushed by Rocky 4, arguably the most well-known of the series due to just, sheer and utter meme saturation.
This isn't a generational misunderstanding, this is a misunderstanding caused by the series' own success-induced schizophrenia.
yeah, i’m confused whether woolie is legitimately criticizing rocky 1 for being “dated” or jabbing at it for fun
nobody in rocky 1 besides adrian is completely innocent or a wholly good person. it’s what gives that movie some real personality and uniqueness still for its own genre
Eddie Murphy's bit about how all 5 foot tall Italians think they can kick everyone's ass after watching Rocky comes to mind.
Man Eddie is such a tresure
The best bit lol
Damn that's a classic bit.
i mean, have you seen 5 foot Italians fight? they get scrappy.
@@charleswisconsin9196 of course they do. Think of the insecurity it must be to be 5 feet tall. Lol
I'd say the zoo scene in Rocky 2 is absolutely intentional. It's not a date-Rocky walks there to get out of the hospital for a bit, and when Adrian asks why he'd come to the zoo in the middle of winter Rocky looks off whimsically and says "I dunno. I just always really liked the zoo."
Rocky's the butt of the joke there, not Adrian.
Also, Apollo said it himself: "If he can't fight, he can cook!"
...Rocky opens a restaraunt after he retires.
@@ShoggothLord okay this is a good one 🤣
edit: also yeah, Rocky being dumb and consistently being the butt of the jokes does tracks.
Honestly it's kind of a shame that Rocky has become so iconic and has this stigma now when Rocky 1 really is this scaled down piece that Stallone himself wrote while being a struggling actor in New York that ended up winning Best Picture at The Oscars.
Rambo 1, or better first blood is the same thing. A more low key movie with insane narcissistic 80s action follow ups. Well Terminator 1 for that matter as well.
@@Atrahasis7 T2 barely holds it together because there's a lot of nice character stuff in there. But yeah, First Blood is - like Pat says - utterly heartbreaking from the get-go because John Rambo is just so, so broken, but it just becomes ridiculous action movie trash by FB pt 2.
@@MrStath1986 T2 is the perfect sequel film, its also one of the greatest films of all time. I cant express enough how sick terminator 2 is.
@@MrStath1986 The book First Blood is based on does his character so much more justice that it's not even funny, I recommend just reading that.
@@comingupooo Oh, I'm familiar with the book but understood the changes for the film; I just wish 'Rambo' as a franchise didn't go beyond First Blood because even with some flaws, it's a very compelling character piece. Even the all-out action scene at the end isn't over the top, it's pretty much perfect.
Remember when paulie was an insane abusive drunk. And then he became comic relief with a robot.
*HAPPY BIRTHDAY PAULIE*
He was also racist in rocky 3 🤭🤭🤭
Then he completely ruins the family economy in 5.
and back to an abusive drunk
Paulie did nothing wrong.
One of the best scenes of the series comes from Rocky 2 where Apollo is arguing with his manager (who's played by an actual retired boxer) about winning the fight against Rocky. Like Pat said, Apollo is SO SALT about the fact he didn't just destroy Rocky in 2 seconds, the fact he actually put up a respectable fight has wounded Apollo's pride so deeply, he's willing to throw away everything he's built just for another chance to fight him. It perfectly highlights the Michael Jordan psychotic athlete mentality, when you're literally the best in the world, winning is no longer enough. You have to win in such a way that your opponents are demoralized and humiliated. It's not enough to succeed, others must fail. The first two movies do a great job of portraying the toxicity of that mindset.
Honestly, it was more so that people were calling him a fake. Lol At first he was mad that Rocky put up more of a fight but all that hate mail? I wouldn't blame Apollo for feeling like he needed to prove himself.
“I’d rather you lose than I win”
"I won, but I didn't beat him!"
th-cam.com/video/YDpxuWj2A7o/w-d-xo.html
The early Rocky movies were so goddamn honest.
Rocky 1 has so much heart put into it, Stallone sold his damn dog just to be able to make it. Of course the happy ending was he bought his dog back after Rocky was a hit for triple the price he sold the dog, but still it really shows how desperate he was to see this made his way.
It's easily the most inspiring story about a writer I've ever heard. It keeps me motivated to keep writing myself. :')
the thing about Rocky is that its not a sportsmovie. It's a romance movie about two outcasts that dont fit in.
The romance between Apollo and Rocky?
@@Abdega no that was rocky 3
The origins of Rocky is the grimiest, most Philly-esque that is insane the movies got so popular
Rocky is proof that people can’t get enough of the underdog.
That's how good it was. ^_^
I think someone once said the Rocky/Creed reflects Sylvester Stallone's career. 1 being an underdog, 2 wondering if this a fluke, 3 getting bigger and sillier, 4 coked out and on steroids, 5 washed up, RB comeback, C1 stepping back and letting others take over
So is Creed 2 Stallone realizing that "You know what, everything is in good hands".
@@Greed70 that's a good way to put it
Rocky 1 be like "Yep, that's Philly."
Can confirm
"Look at all this philly! LOOK AT IT!"
Rocky 1 is such a strange experience going back when you know just how goofy it gets later on, and yet it’s super grounded as fuck. It’s really weird.
My favourite part is the mafioso Rocky is working with, guy understands rocky had a rough time, poor guy cant even break another guys thumbs. And while being a criminal he still helps rocky and supports him. And the ice skating scene with adrian is so cute, " Hey Rocky why do you fight? "Cause I cant sing or dance.". Its almost like a poetic realism european movie, cant imagine how sly did it, or maybe hes smarter than he seems to be really.
I think its actually a bit of IRL self awareness on the part of Stallone with that comment. He knew back the how unlikely it was that a person with a partially paralyzed face could succeed as a dramatic actor, yet he tried anyway.
I always forget how like, weirdly supportive the mafia guy is to Rocky! But at the same time he's not comically nice or anything, he's not paternal, he's not a father figure. But he's also not cartoon-evil! For as much as Woolie and Pat feel like Rocky 1 is absurd, it takes a lot of care to build out its characters and not make them one-note stereotypes.
Rocky 1 and 2 = Instant classics, 10/10
Rocky 3 and 4 = Action flicks
Rocky 5 = Uhh...
Rocky Balboa = Beautiful return to form
Creed 1 and 2 = Rocky 1 and 2 for a new era.
I hate this statement, but kinda feels like you guys missed the point. Went in expecting an inspirational sports movie, but got a dirty drama, and are judging it by the sports movie view.
Like, the ending wasn't about a fantasy of "No you really could have gone pro!", it was about Rocky proving to himself that he has self worth. He was able to go toe to toe with the champ, and he's not just some illiterate bum on the street breaking thumbs for a living.
THIS.
Finding self worth, by pulling yourself and others up, instead of putting them down, is the whole point of the movie.
@@Kezzeract North America has collectively forgotten how to do this with the advent of Twitter and its radioactive, adversarial culture.
@@Zenthik aw, you think it's not the entire world. how adorable.
@@charleswisconsin9196 It's not.
I get slamming 3 onwards for being ridiculous but 1 & 2 are great movies. He's not some young kid who believes he can win the big one, he's a deadbeat boxer who's been a loser his whole life. He's beat up, doesn't believe in himself & everyone treats him like shit. He gets a shot at Apollo purely because someone drops out & Apollo wants some local bum to fight for publicity, Rocky doesn't even want to fight him. He's obviously promoted as the local hero for the fight because that is literally 100 percent the reason Apollo chose him. In the end all he wants is to not get knocked out. Say what you will, it's obviously outdated since it's almost 50 years old, but it's a truly brilliant movie.
Love y'all. Can't wait for Woolie to see Thunderlips!
the beginning of Rocky 3 is the greatest.
i don’t enjoy 2 as much as other people. but woolie’s jabs at rocky 1’s “datedness” feel weird, yeah it’s a movie entrenched in the back alleys of 1970s philly. that’s..the point? obviously some things are dated but i think it’s pretty intentional how weird and unheroic rocky is as a character. it doesn’t matter because hes endearing as a character for how much hes just an underdog in his own shitty world
I think that first movie is a masterpiece, that is especially relevant today.
Yes, it IS VERY 70s AND WEIRD, but the story of two people who don't fit in, have been beaten down their whole lives and who have nothing, finding respect for themselves and eachother through shared overcoming of their personal adversities, is so beautiful and perfect that I don't think a youtube comment can do it any justice.
Not to mention that it bucks the writing trends of so many movies that it inspired, by letting you really spend time with Rocky, and Adrian to a lesser extent, so you know how low he really is.
There's no "refusing the call" scene, for example, because Rocky never had a call to refuse before. That's such a huge part of his character and I think most people can really empethize with him, in that regard.
To be honest, this kind of analysis is probably better suited to video essays.
"Just Write" did a great video on it, back in 2017, that really highlights all that Rocky does so well. It is a must watch, just like Rocky.
I mean, what's Rocky gonna do? Beat Paulie up? That isn't going to help things. Just get Adrian out of there.
The two nicest people in Rocky 1 are Adrian and the Mob Boss
Did the mob boss even do anything crazy?
@@23kurtzy No, he lightly reprimanded Rocky for going too easy on a guy who owed him money, and when he found out Rocky was interested in Adrian he gave Rocky extra pocket money to take her out.
Gazo came off as sleezy but he was always looking out for Rocky. He was cool. ^_^
As any other good American citizen, I too keep a picture of Carl Weathers from Rocky IV in my wallet to remind me why im here.
I still love that one Family Guy skit with Rocky Balboa challenging some Aliens on Mars, it’s really inspiring and very Rocky:
“There’s no oxygen on Mars!”
“Yeah? And there’s no oxygen for him either. If he wants a fight, he gets a fight”
"You can't win Rocky! You're sixty years old!"
"Hey look what Rocky bought me with his money!"
Might be one of the better skits Family Guy has ever done.
His reasoning is just hilarious. Does he think the alien can’t breathe on mars?
Rocky 1 and Rambo 1 are the two best examples for "really good, really serious and emotionally charged movies that kinda just went totally different directions later".
While Rocky 1 and 2 are objectively better movies, I have the biggest soft spot for Rocky 4.
It’s just filled with delicious 80s cheese from the Cold War motif to the sheer amount of montages. It’s just a fun movie to watch.
I tend to really like 3. It has like 2 or 3 montages but I think it tells a fun story
I’m with you. Unpopular opinion, but I prefer 4 to 3, purely because of how far it crosses into total cheese.
3 is the only one with a decent fight.
Right up until the last round where he goes Face to Fist style again, that is.
Rocky 3 & 4 might as well be called Nachos with the amount of 80's cheese they're smothered in. Cant get enough.
i too agree, but isn't that just the popular consensus?
This video should honestly be titled "Pat's and Woolie's opinions about Rocky 1 are WILD" XD
Idk I really disagree with the guys here, besides that one poorly aged scene I think the first Rocky holds up really well.
I rewatched Rocky 1 last summer and I will say the movie still holds up imo. Mostly cause the characters seem real. The story seemed real. It is probably the best example of an underdog story. I will say that apartment scene in a modern context is uncomfortable as fuck!
Really bummed me out that the take you would have from Rocky is that everyone in it is a shitty human being instead of just everyone in it is a human being. Everyone in Rocky aspires to be more than they are that's what the film is about, even the mob boss who in a lesser movie would just be a monolithic force of corruption is this guy who feels weirdly protective over Rocky and wants him to have a nice date. Obviously we know he's a bad guy, I don't need a movie to break down for me that the mob boss is a bad guy, I can infer from the fact he's a mob boss with leg breakers, I don't need a scene where the Mob Boss and/or Paulie are punished when it's more interesting to see how each of them have aspirations and how it effects them positively and negatively.
Also if you're going to take on the toxic masculinity of the "seduction" scene it's probably best not to follow it up with an expectation that domestic abuse issues should be solved with physical force or the movie is morally suspect and "aged".
The move absolutely is morally aged though, so much of what makes the movie itself wouldn't make it past QA in modern times.
Series like Rockey go through this change where it's divided up between where it started and what it became. yu-gi-oh is a perfect example of this where season 0 feels alien to the series it created. And the weirdest part of that is what it became is what most people will remember and know about.
2003 is a good middle ground. It's the closest thing to a direct adaptation of the comics that TV will ever get (Of course that eventually ran out of material to adapt and went It's own weird way)
@@SeasoningTheObese and I love all of it
Mickey arguing scene is really uncomfortable and amazing because of how depressing it is, when he says "iam old" you can feel the angst, depression and remorse oozing out of the old man. Which makes the reconciliation all the more impactful. And I love how its shot from a distance where you cant listen to both of them. Cause you dont need to, and its personal between them.
70's film making is interesting in that audiences had grown tired of big spectacle, perfect moral heroes, and overblown productions -- and instead turned to smaller, grittier, intimate storytelling about flawed humans. Films like Taxi Driver, Rocky, The French Connection, The Exorcist exemplify this.
We have circled back around to the more grandiose storytelling where all the heroes are morally just, impossibly perfect, striving for a utopia we will all someday partake in if we just believe in them hard enough. Even villains are cast in a sympathetic light now. Some of the old 70's style lives on in indie film making but that's reserved for a much smaller audience.
TH-cam critics are looking back at 70's films now and criticizing the writing for showcasing "toxic behavior." Have we collectively evolved past inherent human moral weakness to the point where these criticisms are justified? Or are we deceiving ourselves in the name of corporate sponsership and viewer engagement? idk I'm drunk af right now and felt like rambling.
I think the "pointing out toxic behavior" issue was born from massive amounts of people born *after* the period these characters were made taking them out of context and turning them into role models.
In turn, this caused people with *slightly* more media literacy to go "by the way these are the bad men do not base your personality around them" - which sounds stupid if you *do* get the movie, but might just be a revelation to the suprising amount of people who didn't.
The original Rocky is my favourite film of all time. It's so human, so relatable, so grounded and touching. Everyone remembers the fights, but its the moments like when Adrian asks Rocky if he wants a roommate and he simply says "absolutely.".
That movie is special, there is nothing else like it.
Rocky tells Paulie “it’s cold outside, Paulie.” because he knows that Paulie is bitter about Rocky getting the shot at the title plus can’t risk getting injured before the title bout to a guy with a bat
Rocky also tells Adrian the reason they go well together is because he’s dumb, and she’s shy. It starts when Rocky tells her about being Southpaw, the dislocating of his finger, takes off her glasses, and it comes to a head when she goes off on Paulie leading her moving in with Rocky so can give his “If that bell rings, and I’m still standing, see. I’ll know for once in my life I wasn’t just some bum from the neighborhood.” speech.
Micky tells Rocky he had the makings of a champ, but wasted it on being a two bit enforcer. Now that Rocky got the championship opportunity now the tables turned for Mick because he’s 76 years old which is why it makes sense for Rocky to be mad for him being treated badly even getting his locker cleaned out.
Apollo Creed was a showmen which is why he wanted to fight someone with a name “Italian Stallion” on thanksgiving. Which is why he ignores his coach about fighting southpaws, and when the tv is showing Rocky punching the meat. A reporter asks Apollo about the implications of fighting an Italian on thanksgiving to which he responds “Is it weird he’s fighting a black man on the day of this country’s founding.” Also “If he(Rocky) can’t fight at least we know he can cook.”
Tl;dr I found it weird Woolie frame Paulie’s saving grace is “he’s family”, Rocky’s relationship with Adrian as creepy, his outburst at Micky as odd, Mick being reduced to “I’m old”, and Apollo being the antagonist because of course he is. Also Pat for describing Rocky and Apollo relationship in 3 as homoerotic they never splashed each other.
Could be wrong but I’m pretty sure they named the soft core film “Italian Stallion” after Rocky was a success
The porn was renamed later. Stallone was broke and desperate for money.
@@Sarged40 Even after selling his dog Stallone refused to sell the script. The studio offered him 330k they eventually caved, and gave him a shoe string budget. Which led to the trunks on Rocky’s banner being the wrong color, and during the running montage in one take so when the guy throws an orange Stallone actually caught it
You're right about everything except how unintentionally homoerotic that scene is in Rocky 3, because even if they don't splash fight each other, holy shit slow-mo beach hugs, multiple repeated close ups on pumping glistening thighs, Apollo creed wearing a down to the nipples tank top and short shorts, Rocky wearing a down to the nipples tank top and short shorts and an 80s gay club headband, synchronised boxing dancing behind each other while Creed looks directly at Rockys ass, running on the beach together at sunset. Apollo at one point wears a tank top with a rainbow on it.
@@NoNoNah306 rainbows weren't gay in the 80s.
@@NoNoNah306 People in 2022 try to understand basic male friendships before the internet without reframing it as homo-eroticism challenge (Impossible)
I don't know how you didn't fall in love with Rocky the character during the ice-skating scene. It's such a beautiful moment of showing that these two people who aren't considered "normal" by society realize that they have found someone that's just like them.
Rambo has the same progression. The first one is an intensely serious psychological anti-war movie. The sequels are the very thing the first movie was against.
First Blood seems to be the link between the miserable war movies of the 70s and the 'Nam do-over fantasies of the 80s.
"Do we get to win this time?"
Death wish is another one it’s a lot more negative about being a vigilante he never catches the rapists and his murders slowly erode his mind
22:00 "It takes place in the world where Bill Burr tore down the city of Philadelphia."
Not only that, but Joe Frazier himself shows up in the first Rocky.
Rocky 1/2 are legit some really good Dramas. bit dated, yet very good.
Rocky 3 is a good story just not executed well. However, that fucking bromance is incredible.
Rocky 4 is beefy cheesey american anti-communist glory
Rocky 5 does not exist
Rocky Balboa is good, but not as good as its predecessors imo
Creed is so fucking good.
Rocky 5 is fine. fite me.
I was cheering for Adrian in the kiss scene the same way I was cheering for Rocky in the fight. That scene deserves a little more nuanced discussion than "lol this is rape, lol sexual awakening doesn't change people's personalities."
Yeah, honestly they really downplay the slow buildup of Adrian's self-confidence through that first movie. When Paulie finally has that blowup and she just starts screaming at him and pushes him down into that chair? That's an incredible culmination and a moment of catharsis for that character! I totally get being uncomfortable with some of how their relationship builds, it is absolutely riding the line, but it's to Stallone and Shire's credit that it stays on the right side of the line the whole way through.
Man I watched Rocky I for the first time fully 2 or 3 years back and I really loved it. Definitely got the 70s creeper vibe but it took itself so seriously and was so uplifting that it still turned out good.
I want a compiled list of films titled under ‘ 70s creeper vibe’.
Rocky 4 might be one of my favourite movies of all time. It's pure, heart-attack-inducing cheesy schlock. And the soundtrack is fucking ace too.
It reminds me of a similar thing with rambo where the first film was about soilders being abandoned once they've sevred their purpose the abused by law enforcement and the suffering the vietnam war inflicted on them that they're expected to just endure in silence.
Only for the sequels to go "oh fuck yeah merica bruher yets go kill of dem fuckin commie lovin veitcon yeeee haaaaa"
Same with death wish. Like if i remember rightly the first death wish movie was a more sober look at vigilante justice, like Charles Bronson just snaps and he's not some soldier or action man, he's just an architect pushed past the brink of despair.... and then the sequels happened where he's fighting street gangs in some apartment block that looks more like a mad max set
The difference between 1970s and 80s filmmaking. Tarantino had a great breakdown of this on his Joe Rogan appearance.
15:52 "I coulda been a contender" is a line from 'On the Waterfront', another movie people think is about boxing that really isn't about boxing.
Two nerds who only sit at home and play video games all day watch a grimy, grounded sports drama for the first time.
Unapologetically Philadelphia is the weirdest, most Hollywood way possible. Gotta love it.
Signed,
Dude from Philly
You guys are still on the hook for hitchbot
@@aganaom1712 Multiple stab wounds and shots by paintballs, hitchbot would never be the same ever again.
These are some of the weirdest takes on a movie I've ever heard. You're surprised the 70's drama examining flawed characters and settings doesn't line up with 2022 armchair viewing?
Always love you guys but just had to say something. Rocky is my favourite drama of all time and a beautiful movie about finding your self worth. I feel like you may have missed a lot being distracted by how "outdated" it was for you.
I feel like Woolie's reaction to Rocky being a pretty "standard" 1970s character drama (with some boxing in it) instead of "what if Ippo was in Philly" speaks more about what the idea of "A Rocky Movie" has become in the "collective consciousness" (especially if you haven't seen it) than anything else.
Kinda like, as many other comments have been saying, John Rambo is now *the* american action hero despite him being born as a scathing critique of american militarism and the way Vietnam was handled.
Turns out memes do shape our culture.
Always has been
I never meet anyone who done the Rocky watch say Rocky 5 is best or even ok. The only good thing about 5 is the street brawl and that is it.
it's the weakest, but it's fine.
The Mickey scene is great as well.
I think the best thing to call a gritty (semi) grounded drama from years ago is dated because that means it picked up the warts that existed at the time. In regards to the apartment kiss scene it is uncomfortable but also does a good job of showing the reality of the situation. Look at a some old couples and commonly one is a gruff/brutish guy and the other is a shy lady and you wonder how they came to be, it is almost certain to have one of those moments (uncomfortable kiss scene) in their story.
I apologize if I sound pedantic, but I would like to point out that there are still couples like this, I don't think it's a generational thing it's just a human thing.
Filmmaking of the 1970s tended to reflect daily life in a grittier less sympathetic way than movies of the 2010s and 2020s. Whether or not that's good or bad is personal taste, I just wanted to point out that people still act this way it's just not portrayed in movies that much now especially in any kind of sympathetic way.
@@darklyroaring absolutely, I would've said so but I like to keep any opening comment I make as concise as possible. Thank you for your reply as it further drives home the point.
Also, I find Rocky and Adrian's relationship rather beautiful because of how uncomfortable it is. These two people are not so much made for each other as not made for anybody else. Adrian is someone painfully awkward but also so asocial she borders on (or even is fully into) avoidant personality disorder. Every signal she gives the outside world is saying "please, leave me alone" and only someone as socially inept as Rocky would not understand a single one.
I see why people have a problem that first kiss scene as I was super uncomfortable; but that's to be expected from two of the most socially maladapted people in a literally uncomfortable setting. Discomfort is needed but it is rare outside of the "body horror" genre to be used in modern popular cinema.
Adrian turns away from the kiss because the actress had a cold and didn't want to give it to Stallone. The scene wasn't supposed to go down that way as written. They kept that take anyway.
I mean isn't one of the first scenes is just Rocky in the locker rooms smoking and recovering from a low rank boxing fight lol.
How the fuck do these guys like shonen anime and not have watched Rocky yet.
The Rocky movies are a testament to Stallone as a writer, and later director. It’s the Tommie Waiso story that actually worked!?!
i cant believe youve never seen first blood. omfg. shameful.
>Top Gun is inverted
In that it is so extreme in how gay the straightness comes across as, that it loops around and becomes straight again?
It's really very simple: Rocky I and II are 1970s America, and Rocky III and IV are 1980s America. Those decades were night and day. The 70s were gritty and uncomfortable, and the 80s were brightly colored superficial optimism. We unfortunately don't really have a 90s Rocky, because V is still supposed to be set in the 80s. And is also terrible.
5 is fine.
In Paulie's rant, Rocky does put himself between Paulie and Adrian to make sure he doesn't hurt her. When Adrian starts standing up for herself, though, he doesn't interfere, because it's her battle to fight.
Playing volleyball to get ready for your date is the wildest shit I have heard in a while 🤣
I think that rocky is fascinating a because Sylvester Stallone wrote it for free because it was his passion project. Also learning about Stallone's early life it really does seem like rocky is a self insert written by someone who feels like Rocky Balboa is the greatest man ever.
True story from my pops (RIP) he told me he was in the theater for the second Rocky movie and busted out laughing when he saw Rocky take Adrian to the zoo. He was given weird looks (as to be expected in a theater I get it) but, then he put on his best Stallone accent, and yelled “take her to the zoo“ and the whole audience died because, they remember the comment by that guy in the first movie. I asked dad, (I was 5) why that was funny, and of course being the guy of the 70s, he said those people love the zoo. I love my dad.
I feel like woolie on that podcast where they were talking about how bad the Gameboy was "REALLY? WE'RE SHITTING ON ROCKY TODAY!?!?"
Stallone himself wrote the script which is pretty funny
Oh yeah Rocky is the window into 70s Philly. I love it so much.
Also friendly reminder that Rocky V is not canon.
yes it is. fite me.
Man, Pat can't help but over-hype/psuedo-spoil shit Woolie clearly states he's yet to watch, huh. You can see Woolie's expression sour as he attempts to reroute every time.
It's because Pat personally doesnt care about spoilers. So he thinks others also don't care.
its strange and a little sad listening to chewie and fuckface discuss rocky through their generational lenses. they should listen carl weathers talking about how hyped he was to play the antagonist, and why
Rocky 4 makes more sense when you realize it's backdrop is the cold war of the 80's.
Rocky has got to be the first man to stand up to Russia. Drago kills former world champion then goes IDGAF on national tv. Rocky gonna show em you can't just do what you want cause you got nukes.
I think the term you're looking for is "the not-gays"
I keep telling people that rocky isnt a boxing movie but searching for meaning and selfworth movie.
I would say first blood is even better than Rocky 1. It has some really nice pacing. Colonel campbel, I mean Trautman does a really nice job.
In regards to Adrian's casting, she's Talia Shire, AFTER the godfather. So right now in the public's eyes she's somewhat red hot.
“Rando white guy vs black professional athlete”
Oh no… they might try to shoehorn Logan Paul vs Mayweather into the Rocky universe one day
Rocky may be kinda old and busted but as a motivational film for athletes it's a classic.
I remember watching the date scene with my dad and he actually paused to lecture me and my brothers on "No means No" and that we will just go to jail if a girl accused us.
Omg i hope woolz gets to rocky 3 and see Pauly being racist and talks about it on the pod 🤣🤣🤣
I think just the mentioning of racism sets off the woolie senses, just like when he found out about eric Clapton 😂
He'll enjoy it in a similar way to Waka from FFX
At the end he holds the ring's rope so that Adrian can get through. It's a blink and you miss it moment but kinda sweet.
It's hard to answer what my favorite Rocky movie is, because I genuinely think I is the best for being as genuine, raw, and uncomfortable as it is, but I absolutely have the most fun watching IV.
Woolie gets dangerously close to movie snob territory in this, and I hope that line doesn't get crossed by the time he finishes these films.
He's there already. I remember him and the other two redacted members of the og podcast would act like huge movie snobs for content
@@jphugo15 Woolie definitely has snobbish tendencies, and it can be pretty annoying when he acts like he knows more about writing than he does and also when he completely disregards alternative interpretations/artistic intent.
The thing that redeems him though and keeps me coming back is that he's at least somewhat self-aware and won't deny it when he messes something up or gives false critic on a subject.
It helps that beneath it all is a sincere love for the craft behind stories.
@@ProjectSudoku That's true. That's also while I'm still around as well. But it's times like these when I wish there was another, more knowledgeable member of the podcast present to challenge some of the views he and Pat have. It's way too much of an echo chamber sometimes.
@@jphugo15 You mean like [REDACTED] and [REDACTED]? Because I agree, they definitely helped to balance things out.
A person not liking a thing you like isn't them being a snob
Rocky 1 is so damn good. I enjoy all of the Rocky movies, even 5 is completely watchable. But yes, the date scene is veeeery uncomfortable to watch, and I'm thankful the movie completely drops that aspect afterwards.
Fun Fact: Predator was created based on a Hollywood inside joke for Rocky 5 that after Rocky beat a Russian Superman, logically his next opponent should be an alien.
I think the word Pat was looking for is Bara
Watched the first two Rocky movies with a group of ladies recently who had no knowledge whatsoever of Rocky beyond vague awareness that it was about boxing. There were multiple gasps and clutched hearts. Those first two movies are fucking tender as HELL and they were not prepared at all for how much focus the relationship stuff gets. I always tear up when he’s reading in the hospital in 2! It gets you right in the heart!
I legit had no idea there was a directors cut of rocky 4 until pat brought it up and just finished watching it. Good time, and gotta say probably the superior version of the film
I remember being so pleasantly surprised watching the first Rambo movie and being legitimately weirded out with the movies being associated with hardcore violence and guns.
Paulie messing things up?
Boy, wait till you see Rocky 5. If you get that far.
Paulie is interesting because he's trash but there's a hidden marshmallow inside the trash. XD
I love these movies. Each one of them.
Rocky is one of those franchises that has the most wild tonal shifts of any franchise I can think of.
I'd also recommend the 1974 version of "The Taking of Pelham One Two Three". It has that exact combination of 70s sleaze and cartoonish nonsense.
70’s romance has NO pullout.
Woolie has heard wrong, Creed is just setup for Creed 2, the movie thematically links the generational trauma of three families together and ends with a fight that cleanses them all and allows them to move on.
It is one of the best blockbusters ever, thematically and technically, and I’m honestly bummed they didn’t let it be the series finale.
Talking about camera work in the rocky movies. Rocky is the first movie that uses a steady-cam.
Kubrick actually called the guy in charge of camera work and gave him a bigger budget son they could improve on the technique he used for rocky and that gave us the modern steady cams
The Rocky Statue exist in real life last I checked they moved it to the side of the stairs
I watched rocky 1 today just to watch this clip
Rocky and Rambo are both in the same boat where the first one is this very human tale of struggling with internal pain and insecurities and trauma, but then they both end up just becoming cartoons of themselves as the series go on.
I recently heard the story of my niece as a child watching Rocky on tv with my sister and she was so upset at the end of the movie she was inconsolable that Rocky lost. My sister was trying to explain why it didn't matter if he won or not but she was just mad and crying so much they had to go out and get a DVD of Rocky 2 to watch it that night.
Ever since I first caught them on TV I've always Unironically really liked the Rocky movies.
To be honest I always thought it was an east coast thing how they spoke and treat one another especially how odd it was when Ricky took Adrian to his apartment to force himself on to her but I’m not sure
Stallone bought the turtles in the movie; he still has them, last I checked. That makes me smile.
Rocky 3 has Hulk Hogan and Mr. T so that one is my favorite. It’s so ridiculous.
I think it's safe to say that the Rocky franchise also got Rambo'ed: First Blood is about a Vietnam vet with major psychological trauma, lashing out at a society that doesn't want or need him anymore. Every other subsequent film is "Murica fuck yeah!"
I watched Rambo 1 a few years ago, it's a damn tragic story, every minute that passed and the culmination of the story just made me think "this man seriously needs a hug, to rest and to move to a country without easy access to weapons, it's a cruelty to try and force this ptsd riddled hero to hold a weapon again". The idea that this man would go on to not only do the opposite of what I hoped but become THE icon of the world's most dangerous soldier who will mow down his enemies by the hundreds is honestly shocking,.
Did pat forget that the statue was put up in Rocky 3?
all you know about philly is always sunny
Everytime Pat imitates the the creed song "caaAn yoUu take me hiiiigher" my soul sings in joy, its the best thing that happens every six months.
It’s what causes the seasons to change