Something interesting I noticed about Godwyn's tendrils is, in keeping with his aquatic theming, there are some parts that look almost like the suckers of an octopus tentacle. Godwyn's usual Deathroot isn't particularly thorny, so whatever is going on at Stormveil seems like an unusual case if he is at fault.
I wonder if they're going to expand on this in the dlc (being that the erdtree is decayed). I just don't know if its post burning or after deathblight had expanded in a normal fromsoft time jump lol. Anyways, great find as always!
I always knew since I first saw those ugly ass holes that they represented something deeper, like the castle was in a state of accelerated decay. Did anyone else get a genuine visceral reaction from looking at them? They look like infected sores or something.
The thorns bear a biblical symbolism of those "who are consumed by the cares and anxieties of this physical life and the deceitful enticements of wealth". They're God's punishment for uncontrolled greed and desire, in this case Godrick and his family's desire for power, perverted as it is. The secondary meaning of thorns, specifically crown of thorns, is what the fire monks stand for; atonement, humility and fall from grace. In this case, guarding the giant's flame while making use of its profane powers. Might not be that relevant, but in Shinto, thorns usually symbolise a prohibited desire. Something sinful you're hopelessly ensnared by. Godwyn's death relates to all of this of course, as it created a new form of life. Life without meaning, direction and purpose. It can only spread while consuming everything else, cancer. In biblical sense, it's a sin of the highest caliber, living body without the spirit, basically reverse Jesus. And obviously, the thorny roots are what they are; tendrils of Deathblight slowly creeping around and consuming the Lands Between. The released DLC banner basically comfirms that Deathblight is taking over the Erdtree. Consumed by thorns is to be consumed by own sin, a living sin in the context of the game. Basically, every one of Marika's children mixes elements of the Bible, Shinto and Germanic mythology to portray different perversion of life as intended by the Greater Will.
Its also interesting to note that this could be directly caused by grafting simply because of the carnage that it causes. The amount of littered corpses that arent disposes of carefully might attract the deathblight, similar to that alchemical worldview video you made before where simply the presence of dead flesh was enough to "create" bugs.
Stormveil brings to mind the "Fisher Kingdom" trope, where a kingdom will suffer a sickness or pestilence to matches the sickness or evil of its royalty. The castle is an insane shadow of its original glory, being eaten from within by a combination of briars, the holes in its walls resemble sores or ulcers, a grim place of death. Just like a sickly, desperate, violent Godrick.
For some reason, skimming your comment and seeing the words "fisher kingdom" somehow reminded me of how some seaside cultures would revere corpses of whales that would wash ashore, as they provided many resources for food and tools. I don't know why I made that connection here, other than Godwyn's fishy appearance, but I thought it was interesting.
It wouldn't be the first Arthurian theme in this game, and combined with the death/aquatic-life imagery that shows up all over the game, it could go either way. It's almost frustrating how little explanation we're given for so many things in Fromsoft games. Not necessarily nothing, but just a little, which is enough to convince your brain that there are answers and other figurative puzzle pieces left to be found and put together, even when there's none left.
Glasgow DLC would slap. The Necropolis is imposing enough to be included for its beauty and people would complain about the difficulty spike at Maryhill Tesco.
These deconstructions and deep dives into the game files and descriptions are endlessly fascinating. Thank you for putting out such high quality content
There's also the fact that the castle is actually being slowly torn apart. If you look at certain places in Stormveil, you can see where giant staples have been hammered into fissures that have ruptured in the stonework, implying that Goodrick's troops are aware that the castle is collapsing and are trying to keep it from falling apart.
In the 2019 trailer, Godrick is shown having grafted a left arm that matches the size and skin tone of Godwyn. During the shattering, Godrick stole a bunch of treasures and hid amongst the womenfolk of Leyndell to flee. Godwyns left shoulder to around his lower back was cut on the night of black knives Rogier refers to the body under storm wind as a “relic of Godwyns from the night of black knives”. One definition of a relic is a part of a deceased holy persons body. Therefore, the sin that is being punished is that one of the treasures Godrick stole during the shattering was a holy relic; the left arm of Godwyn the Golden. He grafted it onto himself to gain power, but was likely corrupted by death blight and had to cut it off. He cast it into the moat where it has begun growing into a second corpse of the Prince of Death, like a starfish. This is the source of the thorns in stormveil castle. Godrick killed the dragon so that he could source a replacement left hand.
This might also explain the presence (if not the only instance) of thorny Deathroot in Stormveil. It could be tied to the thorns being associated with sin and its punishment, as the thorns might be punishing not just the grafting but the very act of Godfrey predating on his own kin, Godwyn, one of his ancestors and symbol of the golden lineage. After all, all the Demigods are being punished for fighting each other, as in fighting their own blood, as their fate is to die at the hands of the Tarnished.
I think Radagon must've attacked stormveil at some point. The thorns in stormveil seem reminiscent of the thorns on the corpses of the fire giants, a place where I do believe we know Radagon faught in that war. I think the grafting is tangentially related to the deathblight in stormveil but I don't the thorns are the deathroot. We also know that Radahn attacked stormveil at some point do to telltale giant rocks in the walls, so it's possible these attacks against stormveil are one and the same since we know Radahn loved his red hair and the golden order. Or perhaps it was another attack godrick thought he could simply hide from instead however it started from the inside rather than the outside.
This seems like the most likely theory imo. Grafting pieces of Godwyn's corpse in an attempt to steal a portion of his power can only be considered one of the most unholy unions imaginable in Elden Ring.
Despite living there, I never made the correlations between Stormveil and Edinburgh Castle, but that’s so cool that it’s literally referenced in the files!
Have you read berserk? If you get to the Fantasia Arc you will have a pretty good idea of how sinister the direct inspiration for the Erd Tree really is despite it’s ethereal beauty.
I think the reason the Erdtree uses thorns is specifically Radagon using thorns. He is implied to have lineage from the Giants and we see those Giants in the Mountaintops bursting with thorns out of their corpses. Furthermore his own Rune symbol is covering those thorns as we see that criss cross on his statues as well.
That rune symbol is meant to represent a trellis, a support structure for vine growth, as opposed to tree branches and trunks... It was in a hawkshaw or tarnished archeologist video, can't remember where
Thorns seem to show up more than just from Radagon or the Giants though. Aside from Godwyn and deathblight, there's the Thorn Sorcerers/Abberant Sorceries and the Blood Star, as well as Elmer of the Briar and Eochaid.
@@Jergy2 I'm not saying thorns in general are exclusive to Radagon. I'm saying the reason they protect the Erdtree is very likely out of Radagon's own intervention rather than being innate to the Erdtree.
@@Mare_Man but wheres the deathblight frogs or godwin head onion things or those who live in death or like any other deathblight stuff all we see near the frozen giants are thorn sorcerers even tho there is a deathblight area in the mountaintops with those who live in death and deathblight onions theres no frozen giants or thorn sorcerers there
Fun note about grafting, it's something often done with plants, grafting different species of them together to help them grow in different environments. I wonder if the implication is that the Erdtree itself is a grafted being, having grafted itself onto whatever great tree existed before the time of Elden Lords.
I think none of these explanations conflict with each other, and rather they all add to each other in explanation: The literal source of the thorns is, in all likelihood, Godwyn's corpse -- it's consistent with its placement as the "secret of the castle", and narratively it explains his inclusion in Stormveil. The metaphysical connection is that Godrick is being punished for his sins, and that fate has brought the plague of Godwyn's corpse to his doorstep -- perhaps a coincidence, but it aligns with similar ideas of divine punishment. As for the Erdtree's involvement, as Godwyn and the Erdtree's roots are intertwined, I don't think you necessarily have to separate their influence. Rather, given the recency of the appearance of thorns to protect the Erdtree, it's possible that they appeared precisely because of Godwyn's corpse infecting its roots, as if his golden lineage is still protecting the tree now, or vice-versa -- that Godwyns accumilation of thorns is divine/phyiscal punishment by the Erdtree itself for being a sin against nature, infecting its roots.
@@alyseleem2692 No, Godwyn is the first child gatekeeping us from his mom's new boyfriend. Don't get it twisted. And his dad (and her ex-husband) is also doing the gatekeeping too. This is actually too real now that I think about it.
Its highly unlikely that the thorns that protect the Erdtree are Godwyn's. They are much more likely caused by Radagon, since if you pay attention to the design the thorns are making, it's identical to the mark that often accompanies Radagon's depictions in statues. Still, the rest of your theory is completely valid.
@@TheMightyNovac You do remember her new boyfriend is also her, right?( my brain is still frying trying to explain how that works) And ###, you're right.
Stormveil has always been an intriguing place. Especially since it has been in many trailers and there was hype built around it. Even tho we got to fully explore it, it always feels like there's something more to it!
For me, the holes in the walls and in their own flesh is the biggest mystery of it all. And there must be some reason we don't see any signs of it on Godrick, maybe a Great Rune protects him, or maybe he isn't the reason for the affliction? The Oni in the courtyard is unaffected either, could be something about solely the knights of the Castle, since the Storm hawk's show no signs either, and haven't they been there the longest? Curious indeed.
@@toastmaster914 I initially thought of something like that aswell, but... why? that side of the castle is facing the sea, and there's a 100 meter sheer cliffside below it. Even if you could construct a ship-mounted catapult capable of bombarding that side of the castle, why would you bother? There's nothing to gain from trying to wreck that side of the castle.
There are signs of it on Godrick, too, if you peel away his clothing and armour-- Dark, nasty splotches, a particularly prominent one being beneath the gauntlet of the arm he ends up amputating in lieu of the dragon-head. Granted, that doesn't explain the other oddities, but Godrick hasn't gone unscathed.
Yes finally you covered this topic! I always wondered who attacked Stormveil from the SEA (it is clear the shot that hit the walls came from the west, and there is only the sea and the island where the tarnished begins his journey)... but your explanation is insightful
After experiencing Stormveil and Raya Lucaria, most of other castle dungeons didn’t feel very special Mainly because of those early two being sooo unique Edit: I meant aesthetically, castle redmane/sol/shaded ain’t that cool as Stormveil/Lucaria/Leyndell. The lack of cutscene boss might be the reason I feel that way as well.
Pretty sure they put a lot of extra effort into Stormveil, as it is meant to show the players what experiences Legacy Dungeons would bring. I'm not that disappointed in others though-except Redmane Castle, which is underwhelming even considering that it is focused on leading you into an epic boss raid
God the buildup to Godrick as a boss is fantastic, from when you start out in Limgrave and hearing about him, to finally reaching Stormveil and seeing the carnage of his grafting firsthand, with ominous BG music to match, all finally peaking when you encounter Godrick. I feel like that boss “buildup” is a lesser talked about subject but it adds so much.
I notice, though, that most of the damage to the castle appears to be external in nature. Mostly along the outer walls, as if struck by magic during a siege. The edges of the holes are even bent outwards, suggesting a sudden, violent force, rather than a slow rot. Unlike the slow rot on the castle's denizens, I suspect the thorns are simply infesting the 'wounds' the castle received during the war of the shattering, and perhaps slowly making them worse like plants growing up through a sidewalk regardless of their source.
Im starting to get back into Elden Ring lore, and your videos always provide some unique insights. Keep it up! I am curious if there's any explanation given as to why such a "complete" manifestation of Godwyn is located at Stormveil Castle and seemingly nowhere else. It's odd to me that a full-on second corpse shows up there, while other locations are typically limited to Godwyn's eyes manifesting on Deathroot vines.
Some of the likely possibilities seem to be that either one of the corpses is just a fully developed deathroot, or alternatively, one of the corpses is his actual corpse and the other is essentially a stillborn rebirth attempt by the Erdtree. People are seemingly reborn through the Erdtree itself, and it may have attempted to do the same with Godwyn, only for it to go horribly awry because his soul remained dead.
@@ZullietheWitch I agree that the "second corpse" is most likely the final evolution of Deathroot (minus the trademark Godwyn eyes interestingly enough). I'm just curious as to why Stormveil Castle was the one place to progress this far along in the Prince of Death's corruption. I'm sure the placement by Fromsoft wasn't arbitrary, but I personally can't pin down any potential connections there.
@@RamAurelius Stormeil is quite fascinating in many ways. It has its own entire culture signified by the storm winds, the banished and exiled knights with their stormy battle arts, unique architecture that isn't really present anywhere else..... And that whole area where you find Godwyn's corpse is quite peculiar. You have the corpse itself, an Ulcerated Tree Spirit lurking around and more unique elements with the whole cocoon coffin things laying around. Nowhere else in the game has anything like that. We see the weird petrified people in the eternal cities, similar people being absorbed by the erdtree's roots in the catacombs, the living jars which may have been used to transport corpses..... but those cocoon-like things? Only that one room. It's super intriguing, tbh. I always end up scratching my head when I visit that area for Rogier's quest
@@ZullietheWitch One other thought occurs to me -- could the "second corpse" have grown from a piece of Godwyn, cut off from his main body and buried beneath his home? Perhaps his foot or leg?
I somehow got the idea that the thorned holes in the walls were from some form of biohazard coastal bombardment, seeing as most of them seem to be on the water-facing side of Stormveil, but this makes a whole lot more sense.
Godwyn's deathroot shennaginerry does seem to have some connection to water so maybe if it is related to him it just naturally gravitated to the seaside of things
I think it is Deathroot, and the thorns are a representation of Godwyn's fury, almost to declare the entirety of the lands between is guilty of his death. the various alternative theories are what ER does magnificently, which is tricking you into false lore, like Radagon being a giant. the reason why it isn't in Stormveil, I think is because Deathroot, being an extension of Godwyn, is attracted to places connected to him and his lineage. Or maybe the place underneath Stormveil was just another catacomb. looks like one. Also, it is interesting to see that the mercenary soldiers look pretty lively compared to the official soldiers. Hope the Expansion sheds some light on it. My theory is that the most blessed before the shattering got turned into walking corpses after the shattering, as there was no more Elden Ring and Erdtree (now dimming) to bless them with their strength, runes, and vigor. thus those who had lived without blessing look normal in the aftermath of the shattering, while those who belonged to the Golden Order society and got spoiled by the eternal blessing of the Erdtree had to live without its power, including their domestic dogs. that's why this weird hollowing seems to worsen the more the individual class is higher. Nobleman are walking mummies. high-rank soldiers look like zombies. common soldiers are gray-skinned and look dead, but not decomposed. Perfumers have a rotten face but are more aggressive probably from their overuse of potions. Commoners in service of the higher classes look old but are still sentient. The women from Dominula, lower class and heretic, look old and scary, but not corpse-like. Pages, who come from lower class, are almost stronger than elite soldiers and fight in a style reminiscent of a player character, and the skin on their hands is normal human look. Glintstone sorcerers were accepted by the Golden Order because of radagon and are pale and corpse-like, while those in service of the Carian Family, (considered not royalty anymore and suffered a coup), look like player NPCs (the Carian Knight for example). the player-looking Npcs are all, outcasts, criminals, renegades, nomads, or tarnished. the rest of the Lands Between's weird creatures don't look corpse-like.
If that's the case, the whole game is a metaphor for the death of empires. When an empire falls, those most propped up by its institutions have the most to lose, while the people who are tied closest to the land often weather the change better. Farming is farming, smithing is smithing, etc. Mother Nature cares not for the rise and fall of nations, but merchants, bankers, and the ruling class certainly do.
Conflating "ambiguous" lore with "false" lore is a bit of an overreach. We have no proof Radagon isn't a descendant of giants, but we do have a lot of proof that he at least considered himself to be representative of their heritage. I have no particular problems with your pet theory regarding why the denizens of the lands between look the way they do though. It does kinda make sense animals without sentient souls wouldn't be part of the Erdtree's life cycle under the Golden Order. Life has seemingly flourished in this place since time immemorial, irrespective of the order which currently governs the elden ring. The only "animals" we see treated with any sort of special concern are the dragons, beastkin, and their descendants. Beastly creatures like the Misbegotten are treated as less than human slaves and it is unlikely the Erdtree under Marika's Golden Order ever bestowed upon them Erdtree rebirth. Edit: forgot the Death Rite Birds as another animal that gets special treatment from the lore, being sentient shepherds and representatives of death rites long past.
I always assumed the thorns were Briars of Sin. The game says grace can become briars, so it would make sense that Godrick, with more grace than the average person, would also produce more briars than the average person when he turns to sin (grafting). I interpreted it as a brilliant early moment showcasing the malevolence of 'grace' as a tool of control by the greater will - if having grace is desirable, more and more people will be susceptible to this punishment if they disobey the greater will.
@@alfalldoot6715 It is when someone gets to decide wholesale what “sin” is. Do you trust a fungus from space to make decisions about whether or not you deserve to die? Do you think that space fungus’s morals perfectly align with yours? Don’t forget that refusing to be melted down alive and eaten by the erdtree is also a sin. would you agree to be “punished” for that?
@@alfalldoot6715 Sin as a very concept is subjective. What's even considered a sin in the lands between has likely changed over time. The fickle machinations of selfish and short-sighted gods should not be the measure by which one's actions are judged.
The fact that the worldbuilding of Elden Ring consistently creeps me out is part of why I'm fascinated by it. The effects of religion being physical and tangible and visceral.
I really like the erdtree theory but imo the deathblight theory makes a lot more sense being how its been shown to have an affect of the areas around it, although knowing fromsoft there is a chance for most things to be possible so i couldnt discount the other ideas
This would also explain why the fire giants all have thorns in their bodies as well despite being a threat before Godwyn died. Something to keep in mind is that Godwyn is known as Godwyn The Golden. So he could very well have major aspects of the erdtree tied to his being and that could be the reason why deathblight has this golden hue sometimes and closely associated with thorns
I absolutely love these videos! Sometimes I wish it was narrated though so I didn't have to read the text and then look at the footage but I also feel like it may take away from the style of these. Great work as always, Zullie!
I'm not sure that the holes in the walls are coming from inside. Some seem to be impacts starting from the outside that don't go all the way through. Are there any holes that start on the inside but that don't go all the way through?
The front of the castle is unscathed, but the sides have holes. But at the sides there's only sea, nothing could damage the castle from there. The soldiers also have holes in the outside of the armor and skin. But it is like a skin disease, like leprosy. You have it inside, but you get rashes, pustules, ulcers, wounds in the outside of your skin. (Due to the nature and spreading of dead tissue, they always look like holes bigger on the superficial part of the skin and smaller the deeper it goes) And maybe the thorns arent a disease, they are the scar tissue, trying to cover the gaping wounds.
The idea that all the sharp vines throughout Elden Ring are linked in some way is fascinating. "Iron vines" resembling barbed wire are used to punish the guilty, and the result was their discovery of aberrant sorceries, creating thorny vines out of their own blood, presumably taught by the "blood star" they found in the darkness without their eyes. The Erdtree protects itself with thorns, using thick, impenetrable vines to defend the gaping wound in its side from would-be invaders like the Tarnished. Godwyn's death and subsequent burial, an obvious defilement of the Golden Order of Marika the Eternal, resulted in the souring of the roots and spread of Deathblight. And now, after Godrick has grafted his flesh with other creatures, the castle he has laid claim to despite not being his own has been torn asunder by yet more thorns. In nature, there are many thorned vines that climb up the sides of trees, and as we all know that tree symbolism is very important in Elden Ring, it's not unlikely that the thorns are directly related to the Erdtree itself. It may not even be for punishment, as the thorns used on criminals are, as far as I can tell as a lore novice, artificial, implying they, if not the other vines, aren't made from the Erdtree. So what about the others? The Aberrant Sorceries were taught to those who had their eyes gouged out, for only then were they able to see their new teacher, the Blood Star. They had their eyes gouged to begin with as punishment for criminal deeds, and the sorceries themselves come from the blood of the caster, which is why they hurt to even cast. The ones protecting the Erdtree are to cover up the gaping cavity in its side, perhaps some form of injury, like a divine scab. It definitely has been there longer than the Tarnished's crusade for the Erdtree, as from what Morgott says, it seems to have been there as long as he's been Lord of Leyndell. Godwyn's bizarre death of soul but not body turned him into a cancerous mass that serves no purpose but to attempt to rebuild itself, something impossible without life within. Being buried in the Erdtree, it likely is attempting to infect the Erdtree itself. and then there's Stormveil. Not only is there signs of Godwyn's spread into the fortress underground, but this is also where Godrick would begin the process of grafting. What's the tie between all these things? The Erdtree's Thorns and Godwyn's Thorns are both signs of illness in the tree, and Godwyn's Thorns, the Aberrant Thorns, and Godrick's Thorns both seem to be tied to depravity and the profane. Perhaps thorns are a sign of perversion of the Golden Order, or something of the like. All this is ignoring the question that's been on my mind this whole time, though: if the vines in Stormveil are from Grafting, why are the exiles laden with thorns and decay, but Godrick himself is not?
Something i noticed recently (and i'm truly not sure why i didn't notice it sooner) is that the chapel of anticipation (the building you wake up in at the start of the game) has the exact same architectural theming as stormveil, and in fact, includes the thorns and growing sores caused by whatever curse stormveil suffers from.
The Hanged Giant in this picture 1:40 always stuck out to me. Hanged Man is the tarot card that suggests ultimate surrender, sacrifice, or being suspended in time. It was guarded by two Scions. Names mean everything.
Regarding Godwyn's second "corpse" found beneath the castle -- what if the assassins also cut off one of his legs or feet? And this piece of Godwyn - the "sacred relic" - was buried beneath Stormveil, his home, leading to it becoming the "second Godwyn" and resulting in the area's deathroot infection being particularly vicious? Meanwhile, his remaining leg eventually developed into his mermaid-like tail. What do you think? Edit: Alternatively, it occurs to me that the "sacred relic" could be his dong, if the Black Knife Assassins chose to castrate him along with killing his spirit. That would certainly explain why Rogier doesn't go into specifics.
Thanks for another interesting video Zullie. We all hope you're doing well and taking care of yourself, we don't want you to burn yourself out for us ❤️
The first one(grafting curse) is the myth, the 2nd one is the true reason, Godwyns corpse, it is also a way to make you explore deeper and find the reason for the castle and the soldiers looking like that.
i always figured the holes were from Radahn's assault on the castle; they greatly resemble craters caused by high speed impacts being perfectly round and the entire castle garrison is oriented to defending the main gate. the thorns being an indicator of sin or depravity makes sense though
I played Elden Ring right after finished DS3 and oh man when I got to Stormveil I had flashbacks from Lothric Castle. It's really cool to see how similar they both are and knowing a few tricks from Lothric Castle actually helped traverse through Stormveil
Bear in mind that the grafting didn't start with Goodrich. Godfroy in the Evergaol is also grafted and being punished for it, though he has no thorns associated with him. It seems unlikely that Goodrich is the source of the thorns alone if his ancestor was not punished the same way.
If you compare the exile armor set/enemies to what remains of the herald legion armor/enemies in the DS3 they are very similar, even down to the wear on their leg armor!
When you first reach the Erdtree after defeating Morgott, Melina says you are blocked by a “mantle of barbs”- I think this refers not only to the holy crown thorns relating to the Erdtree’s power, but it also might be interpreted as “the mantle of the barbarians” that “blocks the way”, aka, Godfrey, Chieftan of the Badlands. I think the holy thorns and the stigmata of Serosh’s death are related to the holes in the lioncrested castle (a reference to biblical story of Saint Jerome and the thorn in the Lion’s Paw) Furthermore, the Godfrey Icon has a lot of two fingers symbolism, and I think his ‘authority’ grafted to the Erdtree is the Greater Will (much akin to the Rot of Malenia, the Stargaze of Rennala, the Eternity of Marika, the Golden Order of Radagon, and the Grafting of Godrick, etc.)
Grafting could be what drew Godwyn to manifest a separate corpse all the way to Stormveil. All that death and decay could have made it easier for him to get involved.
I've always been fascinated by grafting in this game. There's strong evidence the Erdtree was grafted onto the Crucible, and Serosh was grafted onto Godfrey. A giant portrait of Godfrey is featured in Godrick's grafting room in Stormveil, and Godrick exclusively grafts Tarnished limbs. Note that Tarnished are now the Greater Will's chosen, which is why Godrick seems be drawn towards grafting them, until nearing defeat, at which point he grafts a dragon (the Greater Will's chosen in an ancient age)
Your shit is so sick. I've been watching for a long time on many different youtube accounts. I rarely can be seen watching multiple channels across different account through time. Yours is one of them tho.
Ah, the true Eldritch Horror: Scotland. To be fair, Shadow over Innsmouth is about the Welsh, so maybe all of us in the UK are extradimensionally awesome/horrifying.
Another major point to note, Leyndell’s walls are also covered in thorns where it was struck by artillery, same can be said for the field outside Leyndell’s wall were the Erdtree’s defender fired their own artillery at the besiegers. We know Stormvale was also besieged until Godrick came out to fight Melania. This leads me to believe that the artillery fired is what causes the holes and the thorns within them in the castle walls. It seems the type of ammunition they use in the lands between may have some sworn of thorns or magic containing them within the projectiles.
I'd like to think that the sheer amount of dismembered corpses strewn about the entirety of Stormveil is what attracted Godwyn's presence to begin with. The accumulation of death feeds the deathroot, and in turn, it corrupts those who are tied to Godrick's feverish hunt for grafting material. While the thorns on their armor is most likely a symbol of their sin, their illness is probably a creeping influence of Godwyn and his deathroot. The thorny briars stretching across Stormveil are much more likely to be from Godwyn alone. In a different video, you covered the cause of damage to the castle, mentioning an off-screen conflict that took part in the past. This likely killed a lot of people in the castle, but with Godrick lacking any respect for the Golden Order and its customs, the dead were never even considered for Erdtree Burial ceremonies, so they just rotted away where they laid. This also attracted the deathroot extending its thorns, accumulating death before some soldiers may have thrown the bodies off the cliffs.
The Lore Hunter made a video on Stormveil's architecture that explores this topic and i think it complements this video very well, anyone interested in learning more i would highly recommend watching that.
Before the video I assumed it was a clear case that Godwyn's corpse was responsible, but you did a great job presenting points in favor of the alternative reason. I love the Elden Ring's lore has this ambiguity, and that things like this are genuinely open to speculation.
I kept expecting the rotted walls to be explained but it wound up not being explicit. Some interesting speculation, and seeing the decay on those soldiers in the castle (this is the first time I really saw it) it tangentially makes me wonder about common enemy variation across the map. Like you have the different crabs and other things you've covered, I wonder if there are other clues hidden by using different character models for what appears to be the same creature.
I always assumed the holes in the walls could be caused by siege weapons used during the shattering, like those huge missile thingies that you find scattered on a battlefield around Leyndell. But since the holes also appear on the Exiles, now we can't be so sure...
@@towelie1313 Like the big spike things with smoke coming out the top? Those are one of the things that haven't really been explained. I wonder if they're just perfumer censers on top of a spike that gets launched by giant or siege weapon to deliver the chemicals to the battlefield. No sign of any launchers that I've seen, though Yeah, I'd thought that the holes might be siege stuff, or deliberate corruption from an outside source, but I guess I've distanced myself a bit from that idea since I first played.
I think the roots of the great tree can be used as a sewing material in grafting other parts on to royals, since they seem related to the tree. The castle may be using roots to graft its self back together after some battle that took place there. I noticed kindoms keep their rulers theme, with Lyndell having giant roots or vines shattering many buildings and trying to crawl up the erdtree, IMO contesting with it. I also noticed the roots create a perfect pathway for Radagon to make his(and eventually our) way up. Without those vines that are decimating the city, there would be no path way up to Marika, her bedchamber leads to sheer drops and roof tops, as if a prisoner herself or perhaps she has wings. But Stormveil, similar to Lyndell, may actually have two potential contesting rulers, Godwyn in death might have more control of Stormveil then the runt of the liter, so even though the castle is trying to live forever through grafting, it is also decaying.. I said great tree earlier because it's implied that death is being spread through the roots of the great tree, but at Erdtree burial sites. I know people are pretty split between what that description meant with the erd tree and great tree once having their roots entwined. I'd like to share my view that the erdtree sprouted from the stump of a destroyed great tree, with all seperate aspects of that great twisty tree, sprouting as seperate flowering vines that could eventually grow twist back up into a new great tree. But one of the flowers was gold and it got fed every other aspect as a sacrifice, instead of symbiotically growing together. The Erdtree is a single sprout from the many that grew from a destroyed Great Tree, that got fed into a tree of only gold. But that gold already existed inside the older Great tree and its roots are still there, but everyone in the golden order will call them Erdtree roots now since the tree is quite different now and i'm sure its god at least influences the rules of those roots, prefering not to absorb aspects that would tarnish its gold.
I can’t believe this came out now. 6 months ago I was literally writing about the Scottish influence on Elden Rings design architecture for my final design essay
I have the idea that the curse of Grafting is due to Godwyn, I believe grafing comes from Godrick, and Godefroy before him, drawing power from the Godwyn face. Grafting is said to have a sinister origin, Godwyn in Stormveil had a tarp covering the entrance at one point that's still there, and Grafting has a decaying appearance, most obvious when Godrick grafts a completely intact dragon head that instantly decays.
It would be so cool if you did "tour videos" of the mayor castles and dungeons of the soulsborne games!!! there are so many details we miss while playing since we are busy trying to survive we don't notice 'em!
Okay we're almost there, all you need to do is look into whats causing the massive bloody slash marks on the castle. Stormveil has both the Briar spewing holes, and the massive slash marks all over the walls as well. So I have your theory for the holes, now I just need a video on the damn slashes please, it's killing me! (In all seriousness though, love your videos, take your time, I'm not trying to be ass, it's just something that I really want to have a theory on is all)
Stormveil is the most intricate, well designed legacy dungeon in the entire game. They definitely put a ton of work into the earliest areas of the game and were a bit rushed toward the end.
So I think that Godwyn's corpse is the likely answer as to why the exiles are cursed and the thorns are growing all along the castle. However, There are a lot of holes and damage on the castle that do not have thorns in or around them, which due to the shape of some, I think were caused by Radahn's assumed attack of the castle that we find out about from Kenneth Haight (*"First he hid himself amongst the womenfolk to flee the capital, then hid from Radahn in that castle…"*). It would explain why the castle is in such disrepair and would also let the thorns wind there way out of the damaged walls. Love your videos :D
The garrison of stormveil has quite literally become an embodiment of the whats become of the castle itself. Blasted to all hell and slowly being consumed by thorny vines
1:40 Some things seem to be automatically punished if they are abominable enough. Dragon Communion is also something stated in item descriptions to be "punished" because of it being a grave sin.
I honestly think there is so much info behind the thorn sorcerers. Three key things to them. Red, thorns and fire. The color potentially connected to Radagons iconic red hair. Thorns that protect the tree could be a sign of corruption or involving the thorn related sorceries. And fire being important for stopping rot and yet also a cardinal sin to the golden order for sake of the erdtree.
One other thing to consider is how Elden Rin uses arboreal techniques very literally and taken to fantastical extremes. If, for example, the Erdtree itself is producing the thorns seen on the castle and under Godwyn's face under the castle it could also be a reference to how trees and plants who are transplanted onto an existed trunk or stem will begin to produce thorns as the host is still trying to survive by killing the new host it deems a parasite of sorts.
Don't forget ya boy, the Spellsword (I forget his name) that you meet here- he eventually croaks at the Roundtable Hold from a nasty case of thorn-cooties Or as the professionals call it: *Godwynorrhea*
Actually you can even see how the eyes of the eyes of the exiles are truning yellowish, just like the chaos madness flames. Stromveil is truly a hellish place if you look deeper into it
Crazy theory: Taking note that Godwyn's corpse is in Deeproot Depths, underneath Leyndell, and that he seemingly has another body underneath Stormveil.... Perhaps the body underneath Stormveil is there as a result of Godrick's grafting. Maybe he took a piece of Godwyn and attempted grafting it, and the catastrophic result is the slow deathblight of Stormveil itself.
In my most recent playthrough I've been kinda thinking about the Exiled and Banished Knights. I think it is interesting that they are found in places where you wouldn't really expect them to be, with those titles of all things, specially the Exiled. I think either they were supoosed to be related or found near Elemer, or Elemer got reworked into being from a different land than Eochaid. There's plenty of soldier reskins in this game, and I find it weird that Godrick, even as disgraced as he is, is in a castle full of banned and exiles.
Something interesting I noticed about Godwyn's tendrils is, in keeping with his aquatic theming, there are some parts that look almost like the suckers of an octopus tentacle. Godwyn's usual Deathroot isn't particularly thorny, so whatever is going on at Stormveil seems like an unusual case if he is at fault.
I wonder if they're going to expand on this in the dlc (being that the erdtree is decayed). I just don't know if its post burning or after deathblight had expanded in a normal fromsoft time jump lol. Anyways, great find as always!
It's not an octopus tentacle. It is a jellyfish stinger.
I always knew since I first saw those ugly ass holes that they represented something deeper, like the castle was in a state of accelerated decay.
Did anyone else get a genuine visceral reaction from looking at them? They look like infected sores or something.
maybe an outer god of sin?
The thorns bear a biblical symbolism of those "who are consumed by the cares and anxieties of this physical life and the deceitful enticements of wealth". They're God's punishment for uncontrolled greed and desire, in this case Godrick and his family's desire for power, perverted as it is. The secondary meaning of thorns, specifically crown of thorns, is what the fire monks stand for; atonement, humility and fall from grace. In this case, guarding the giant's flame while making use of its profane powers.
Might not be that relevant, but in Shinto, thorns usually symbolise a prohibited desire. Something sinful you're hopelessly ensnared by.
Godwyn's death relates to all of this of course, as it created a new form of life. Life without meaning, direction and purpose. It can only spread while consuming everything else, cancer. In biblical sense, it's a sin of the highest caliber, living body without the spirit, basically reverse Jesus.
And obviously, the thorny roots are what they are; tendrils of Deathblight slowly creeping around and consuming the Lands Between. The released DLC banner basically comfirms that Deathblight is taking over the Erdtree.
Consumed by thorns is to be consumed by own sin, a living sin in the context of the game. Basically, every one of Marika's children mixes elements of the Bible, Shinto and Germanic mythology to portray different perversion of life as intended by the Greater Will.
Its also interesting to note that this could be directly caused by grafting simply because of the carnage that it causes. The amount of littered corpses that arent disposes of carefully might attract the deathblight, similar to that alchemical worldview video you made before where simply the presence of dead flesh was enough to "create" bugs.
Bug farming life hack
They running on that spontaneous generation logic😂😂
@@hagridps1674 you laughing, but for a fantasy world it's amazing theme, opening for a lot of concepts
@@zaidlacksalastname4905death hack
@@garvielloken8494 I'm laughing because it's a notion of science that i revisited days ago, otherwise yeah it's pretty cool
Stormveil brings to mind the "Fisher Kingdom" trope, where a kingdom will suffer a sickness or pestilence to matches the sickness or evil of its royalty. The castle is an insane shadow of its original glory, being eaten from within by a combination of briars, the holes in its walls resemble sores or ulcers, a grim place of death. Just like a sickly, desperate, violent Godrick.
For some reason, skimming your comment and seeing the words "fisher kingdom" somehow reminded me of how some seaside cultures would revere corpses of whales that would wash ashore, as they provided many resources for food and tools. I don't know why I made that connection here, other than Godwyn's fishy appearance, but I thought it was interesting.
Definitely something the GRRM has included in his books. Harrenhall and the nights watch castle with the rat cook off the top of my head.
It wouldn't be the first Arthurian theme in this game, and combined with the death/aquatic-life imagery that shows up all over the game, it could go either way.
It's almost frustrating how little explanation we're given for so many things in Fromsoft games. Not necessarily nothing, but just a little, which is enough to convince your brain that there are answers and other figurative puzzle pieces left to be found and put together, even when there's none left.
@@strcmdrbookwyrmkos parasite brainrot
@@strcmdrbookwyrm Sounds fitting to the Fishing Hamlet's worship of Kos in Bloodborne.
There's something really funny to me about a fantasy dungeon being called Edinburgh. Can't wait for the Glasgow DLC.
Glasgow DLC would slap. The Necropolis is imposing enough to be included for its beauty and people would complain about the difficulty spike at Maryhill Tesco.
Fromsoft really seems to like UK cities with dystopian undertones.
Final boss of the DLC is an anthropomorphic fried mars bar
Glasgow DLC would end up with the game needing a AO rating...
@@ashk0p450Birmingham DLC when
These deconstructions and deep dives into the game files and descriptions are endlessly fascinating. Thank you for putting out such high quality content
And obviously thanks to the devs for, as always, putting so much work and detail into their games
Plus the eerie music fits so well. I love her videos!
There's also the fact that the castle is actually being slowly torn apart. If you look at certain places in Stormveil, you can see where giant staples have been hammered into fissures that have ruptured in the stonework, implying that Goodrick's troops are aware that the castle is collapsing and are trying to keep it from falling apart.
Stormveil is one of my favorite places in the game
mine too
Ok
Leyendell is mine, dark souls loves to show vistas when you enter a new location and the view is immaculate
The best Castle FromSoft has ever made imo.
It's the closest thing we got to real level design in the game, the royal capital and shunning grounds are also up there as far as I'm concerned.
In the 2019 trailer, Godrick is shown having grafted a left arm that matches the size and skin tone of Godwyn.
During the shattering, Godrick stole a bunch of treasures and hid amongst the womenfolk of Leyndell to flee.
Godwyns left shoulder to around his lower back was cut on the night of black knives
Rogier refers to the body under storm wind as a “relic of Godwyns from the night of black knives”. One definition of a relic is a part of a deceased holy persons body.
Therefore, the sin that is being punished is that
one of the treasures Godrick stole during the shattering was a holy relic; the left arm of Godwyn the Golden. He grafted it onto himself to gain power, but was likely corrupted by death blight and had to cut it off. He cast it into the moat where it has begun growing into a second corpse of the Prince of Death, like a starfish. This is the source of the thorns in stormveil castle.
Godrick killed the dragon so that he could source a replacement left hand.
This might also explain the presence (if not the only instance) of thorny Deathroot in Stormveil. It could be tied to the thorns being associated with sin and its punishment, as the thorns might be punishing not just the grafting but the very act of Godfrey predating on his own kin, Godwyn, one of his ancestors and symbol of the golden lineage. After all, all the Demigods are being punished for fighting each other, as in fighting their own blood, as their fate is to die at the hands of the Tarnished.
Oh! Good catch! That might explain the corpse under castle where similar corpses haven't cropped up elsewhere!
Godwyn corpse under the Leyndell have both arms? Maybe it grows itself another arm 💪
I think Radagon must've attacked stormveil at some point. The thorns in stormveil seem reminiscent of the thorns on the corpses of the fire giants, a place where I do believe we know Radagon faught in that war. I think the grafting is tangentially related to the deathblight in stormveil but I don't the thorns are the deathroot. We also know that Radahn attacked stormveil at some point do to telltale giant rocks in the walls, so it's possible these attacks against stormveil are one and the same since we know Radahn loved his red hair and the golden order. Or perhaps it was another attack godrick thought he could simply hide from instead however it started from the inside rather than the outside.
That’s a cool theory
Everything about Godwyn's death is so interestingly ominous
I wonder if Godrick would be foolish enough to graft Godwyn's corpse, or if that is perhaps the source of the castle's strange affliction.
This seems like the most likely theory imo. Grafting pieces of Godwyn's corpse in an attempt to steal a portion of his power can only be considered one of the most unholy unions imaginable in Elden Ring.
Imagine Godrick being a badass, grafting Godwyn into Stormveil and then grafting the castle to himself
@@metalmonster9536
That's a *really* cool idea. I could see that happening if Grafting were a much greater focus of the overall story.
@@metalmonster9536That would be awesome he literally becomes the castle
@@ChadTasteInMusic421 Oh what fun Gostoc would have had living there 😂
Stormveil always blows me away with the amount of lore tie-ins it has. Great video as always!
King's Field IV music always hits the spot 🤌
Wish they would release the soundtrack for it instead of us having to find pirate rips.
Despite living there, I never made the correlations between Stormveil and Edinburgh Castle, but that’s so cool that it’s literally referenced in the files!
Holy sh*t, you lived in Stormveil! Amazing
it's one of my favourite UK castles and I didn't see it AT all lmao - I didn't see the link between Limgrave and Edinburgh much at all
@@AdamOwenBrowning stormveil has holes in the walls, edinburgh has holes in the road and pavement
The Erdtree always felt ominous to me, always there high above the sky, everyone always adoring it. So it was the most suspicious.
Its a giant bewitching branch
Griffith tree.
Have you read berserk? If you get to the Fantasia Arc you will have a pretty good idea of how sinister the direct inspiration for the Erd Tree really is despite it’s ethereal beauty.
It's a pretty tree
When the erdtree is sus 😳
I think the reason the Erdtree uses thorns is specifically Radagon using thorns. He is implied to have lineage from the Giants and we see those Giants in the Mountaintops bursting with thorns out of their corpses. Furthermore his own Rune symbol is covering those thorns as we see that criss cross on his statues as well.
That rune symbol is meant to represent a trellis, a support structure for vine growth, as opposed to tree branches and trunks... It was in a hawkshaw or tarnished archeologist video, can't remember where
Thorns seem to show up more than just from Radagon or the Giants though. Aside from Godwyn and deathblight, there's the Thorn Sorcerers/Abberant Sorceries and the Blood Star, as well as Elmer of the Briar and Eochaid.
@@Jergy2 I'm not saying thorns in general are exclusive to Radagon. I'm saying the reason they protect the Erdtree is very likely out of Radagon's own intervention rather than being innate to the Erdtree.
I'm pretty sure the giants in the Mountaintop are afflicted with Deathblight, just covered in snow. We see it all over the graveyards up there
@@Mare_Man but wheres the deathblight frogs or godwin head onion things or those who live in death or like any other deathblight stuff all we see near the frozen giants are thorn sorcerers even tho there is a deathblight area in the mountaintops with those who live in death and deathblight onions theres no frozen giants or thorn sorcerers there
Fun note about grafting, it's something often done with plants, grafting different species of them together to help them grow in different environments. I wonder if the implication is that the Erdtree itself is a grafted being, having grafted itself onto whatever great tree existed before the time of Elden Lords.
Oh i like this. Like if you put a rose into a potato it grows into a rosebush but the roots are potatos
tarnished archeologist has a video showing the lore pointing to that
If I remember correctly there is even cut dialogue where Godrick talks about his followers bringing him a new "branch" to craft.
@@okname5335lol I read this comment and was like oh boy do I have a video for you, glad to see somebody already mentioned TA’s video
I think none of these explanations conflict with each other, and rather they all add to each other in explanation:
The literal source of the thorns is, in all likelihood, Godwyn's corpse -- it's consistent with its placement as the "secret of the castle", and narratively it explains his inclusion in Stormveil. The metaphysical connection is that Godrick is being punished for his sins, and that fate has brought the plague of Godwyn's corpse to his doorstep -- perhaps a coincidence, but it aligns with similar ideas of divine punishment. As for the Erdtree's involvement, as Godwyn and the Erdtree's roots are intertwined, I don't think you necessarily have to separate their influence. Rather, given the recency of the appearance of thorns to protect the Erdtree, it's possible that they appeared precisely because of Godwyn's corpse infecting its roots, as if his golden lineage is still protecting the tree now, or vice-versa -- that Godwyns accumilation of thorns is divine/phyiscal punishment by the Erdtree itself for being a sin against nature, infecting its roots.
So, you're saying Godwyn's actually the guy gatekeeping us from his mom?
Not gonna lie; never thought of that one before.
@@alyseleem2692 No, Godwyn is the first child gatekeeping us from his mom's new boyfriend. Don't get it twisted.
And his dad (and her ex-husband) is also doing the gatekeeping too. This is actually too real now that I think about it.
Its highly unlikely that the thorns that protect the Erdtree are Godwyn's. They are much more likely caused by Radagon, since if you pay attention to the design the thorns are making, it's identical to the mark that often accompanies Radagon's depictions in statues. Still, the rest of your theory is completely valid.
@@TheMightyNovac You do remember her new boyfriend is also her, right?( my brain is still frying trying to explain how that works)
And ###, you're right.
We also have to remember that godrick is a descendant of godwyn, so maybe godwyn's deathblight is attempting to punish the discrace to his lineage.
Stormveil has always been an intriguing place. Especially since it has been in many trailers and there was hype built around it. Even tho we got to fully explore it, it always feels like there's something more to it!
For me, the holes in the walls and in their own flesh is the biggest mystery of it all.
And there must be some reason we don't see any signs of it on Godrick, maybe a Great Rune protects him, or maybe he isn't the reason for the affliction?
The Oni in the courtyard is unaffected either, could be something about solely the knights of the Castle, since the Storm hawk's show no signs either, and haven't they been there the longest?
Curious indeed.
I presume it's because all of his flesh is fresh, rapidly layering graft on top of graft not just for strength, but to keep the corruption at bay.
I thought that the holes on the walls were caused by radahn attacking the castle when passing my limgrave, but Godrick never bothered to fix them
Catapults
@@toastmaster914 I initially thought of something like that aswell, but... why? that side of the castle is facing the sea, and there's a 100 meter sheer cliffside below it. Even if you could construct a ship-mounted catapult capable of bombarding that side of the castle, why would you bother? There's nothing to gain from trying to wreck that side of the castle.
There are signs of it on Godrick, too, if you peel away his clothing and armour-- Dark, nasty splotches, a particularly prominent one being beneath the gauntlet of the arm he ends up amputating in lieu of the dragon-head. Granted, that doesn't explain the other oddities, but Godrick hasn't gone unscathed.
Yes finally you covered this topic! I always wondered who attacked Stormveil from the SEA (it is clear the shot that hit the walls came from the west, and there is only the sea and the island where the tarnished begins his journey)... but your explanation is insightful
After experiencing Stormveil and Raya Lucaria, most of other castle dungeons didn’t feel very special
Mainly because of those early two being sooo unique
Edit: I meant aesthetically, castle redmane/sol/shaded ain’t that cool as Stormveil/Lucaria/Leyndell.
The lack of cutscene boss might be the reason I feel that way as well.
leyndell> stormveil
Shaded castle is cool. Castle sol was badass. And so was castle morne, carian manor all had their unique features
Pretty sure they put a lot of extra effort into Stormveil, as it is meant to show the players what experiences Legacy Dungeons would bring.
I'm not that disappointed in others though-except Redmane Castle, which is underwhelming even considering that it is focused on leading you into an epic boss raid
Too bad Raya Lucaria is so tiny. The main path is smaller than areas in Souls games and we barely see the interior.
@@Mrfallouthero tbh everything other than the legacy dungeons were dark souls 2-tier levels.
God the buildup to Godrick as a boss is fantastic, from when you start out in Limgrave and hearing about him, to finally reaching Stormveil and seeing the carnage of his grafting firsthand, with ominous BG music to match, all finally peaking when you encounter Godrick. I feel like that boss “buildup” is a lesser talked about subject but it adds so much.
I notice, though, that most of the damage to the castle appears to be external in nature. Mostly along the outer walls, as if struck by magic during a siege. The edges of the holes are even bent outwards, suggesting a sudden, violent force, rather than a slow rot.
Unlike the slow rot on the castle's denizens, I suspect the thorns are simply infesting the 'wounds' the castle received during the war of the shattering, and perhaps slowly making them worse like plants growing up through a sidewalk regardless of their source.
I like this theory
Im starting to get back into Elden Ring lore, and your videos always provide some unique insights. Keep it up!
I am curious if there's any explanation given as to why such a "complete" manifestation of Godwyn is located at Stormveil Castle and seemingly nowhere else. It's odd to me that a full-on second corpse shows up there, while other locations are typically limited to Godwyn's eyes manifesting on Deathroot vines.
Some of the likely possibilities seem to be that either one of the corpses is just a fully developed deathroot, or alternatively, one of the corpses is his actual corpse and the other is essentially a stillborn rebirth attempt by the Erdtree. People are seemingly reborn through the Erdtree itself, and it may have attempted to do the same with Godwyn, only for it to go horribly awry because his soul remained dead.
@@ZullietheWitch I agree that the "second corpse" is most likely the final evolution of Deathroot (minus the trademark Godwyn eyes interestingly enough). I'm just curious as to why Stormveil Castle was the one place to progress this far along in the Prince of Death's corruption. I'm sure the placement by Fromsoft wasn't arbitrary, but I personally can't pin down any potential connections there.
@@RamAurelius Stormeil is quite fascinating in many ways. It has its own entire culture signified by the storm winds, the banished and exiled knights with their stormy battle arts, unique architecture that isn't really present anywhere else.....
And that whole area where you find Godwyn's corpse is quite peculiar. You have the corpse itself, an Ulcerated Tree Spirit lurking around and more unique elements with the whole cocoon coffin things laying around. Nowhere else in the game has anything like that. We see the weird petrified people in the eternal cities, similar people being absorbed by the erdtree's roots in the catacombs, the living jars which may have been used to transport corpses..... but those cocoon-like things? Only that one room. It's super intriguing, tbh. I always end up scratching my head when I visit that area for Rogier's quest
@@RamAureliusperhaps all the corpses attracted deathroot and allowed it to grow so far?
@@ZullietheWitch One other thought occurs to me -- could the "second corpse" have grown from a piece of Godwyn, cut off from his main body and buried beneath his home? Perhaps his foot or leg?
I somehow got the idea that the thorned holes in the walls were from some form of biohazard coastal bombardment, seeing as most of them seem to be on the water-facing side of Stormveil, but this makes a whole lot more sense.
Godwyn's deathroot shennaginerry does seem to have some connection to water so maybe if it is related to him it just naturally gravitated to the seaside of things
I think it is Deathroot, and the thorns are a representation of Godwyn's fury, almost to declare the entirety of the lands between is guilty of his death. the various alternative theories are what ER does magnificently, which is tricking you into false lore, like Radagon being a giant.
the reason why it isn't in Stormveil, I think is because Deathroot, being an extension of Godwyn, is attracted to places connected to him and his lineage. Or maybe the place underneath Stormveil was just another catacomb. looks like one.
Also, it is interesting to see that the mercenary soldiers look pretty lively compared to the official soldiers. Hope the Expansion sheds some light on it.
My theory is that the most blessed before the shattering got turned into walking corpses after the shattering, as there was no more Elden Ring and Erdtree (now dimming) to bless them with their strength, runes, and vigor. thus those who had lived without blessing look normal in the aftermath of the shattering, while those who belonged to the Golden Order society and got spoiled by the eternal blessing of the Erdtree had to live without its power, including their domestic dogs. that's why this weird hollowing seems to worsen the more the individual class is higher.
Nobleman are walking mummies.
high-rank soldiers look like zombies.
common soldiers are gray-skinned and look dead, but not decomposed.
Perfumers have a rotten face but are more aggressive probably from their overuse of potions.
Commoners in service of the higher classes look old but are still sentient.
The women from Dominula, lower class and heretic, look old and scary, but not corpse-like.
Pages, who come from lower class, are almost stronger than elite soldiers and fight in a style reminiscent of a player character, and the skin on their hands is normal human look.
Glintstone sorcerers were accepted by the Golden Order because of radagon and are pale and corpse-like, while those in service of the Carian Family, (considered not royalty anymore and suffered a coup), look like player NPCs (the Carian Knight for example).
the player-looking Npcs are all, outcasts, criminals, renegades, nomads, or tarnished.
the rest of the Lands Between's weird creatures don't look corpse-like.
If that's the case, the whole game is a metaphor for the death of empires. When an empire falls, those most propped up by its institutions have the most to lose, while the people who are tied closest to the land often weather the change better. Farming is farming, smithing is smithing, etc. Mother Nature cares not for the rise and fall of nations, but merchants, bankers, and the ruling class certainly do.
Conflating "ambiguous" lore with "false" lore is a bit of an overreach. We have no proof Radagon isn't a descendant of giants, but we do have a lot of proof that he at least considered himself to be representative of their heritage. I have no particular problems with your pet theory regarding why the denizens of the lands between look the way they do though. It does kinda make sense animals without sentient souls wouldn't be part of the Erdtree's life cycle under the Golden Order. Life has seemingly flourished in this place since time immemorial, irrespective of the order which currently governs the elden ring. The only "animals" we see treated with any sort of special concern are the dragons, beastkin, and their descendants. Beastly creatures like the Misbegotten are treated as less than human slaves and it is unlikely the Erdtree under Marika's Golden Order ever bestowed upon them Erdtree rebirth.
Edit: forgot the Death Rite Birds as another animal that gets special treatment from the lore, being sentient shepherds and representatives of death rites long past.
Hey Zullie, I actually live in Edinburgh. Can't believe your video blew my mind so quickly. Keep up your amazing work & wish you well.
It's really nice to have you back Zullie. I missed your content a lot. Hope you're still doing well
I always assumed the thorns were Briars of Sin. The game says grace can become briars, so it would make sense that Godrick, with more grace than the average person, would also produce more briars than the average person when he turns to sin (grafting). I interpreted it as a brilliant early moment showcasing the malevolence of 'grace' as a tool of control by the greater will - if having grace is desirable, more and more people will be susceptible to this punishment if they disobey the greater will.
That's a good one! Saving this comment for inspiration
but how come godrick doesnt have vines or thorns or mottling and his eyes are still golden like morgots
Getting punished for sin is a bad thing I guess now
@@alfalldoot6715 It is when someone gets to decide wholesale what “sin” is. Do you trust a fungus from space to make decisions about whether or not you deserve to die? Do you think that space fungus’s morals perfectly align with yours? Don’t forget that refusing to be melted down alive and eaten by the erdtree is also a sin. would you agree to be “punished” for that?
@@alfalldoot6715 Sin as a very concept is subjective. What's even considered a sin in the lands between has likely changed over time. The fickle machinations of selfish and short-sighted gods should not be the measure by which one's actions are judged.
I love these short, but informative videos. And the ominous music really adds to the tension.
The fact that the worldbuilding of Elden Ring consistently creeps me out is part of why I'm fascinated by it. The effects of religion being physical and tangible and visceral.
It's always great to see you've uploaded. Your Elden Ring videos are amazing, Zullie.
I really like the erdtree theory but imo the deathblight theory makes a lot more sense being how its been shown to have an affect of the areas around it, although knowing fromsoft there is a chance for most things to be possible so i couldnt discount the other ideas
This would also explain why the fire giants all have thorns in their bodies as well despite being a threat before Godwyn died.
Something to keep in mind is that Godwyn is known as Godwyn The Golden. So he could very well have major aspects of the erdtree tied to his being and that could be the reason why deathblight has this golden hue sometimes and closely associated with thorns
I absolutely love these videos! Sometimes I wish it was narrated though so I didn't have to read the text and then look at the footage but I also feel like it may take away from the style of these. Great work as always, Zullie!
I'm not sure that the holes in the walls are coming from inside. Some seem to be impacts starting from the outside that don't go all the way through. Are there any holes that start on the inside but that don't go all the way through?
The front of the castle is unscathed, but the sides have holes. But at the sides there's only sea, nothing could damage the castle from there.
The soldiers also have holes in the outside of the armor and skin.
But it is like a skin disease, like leprosy. You have it inside, but you get rashes, pustules, ulcers, wounds in the outside of your skin.
(Due to the nature and spreading of dead tissue, they always look like holes bigger on the superficial part of the skin and smaller the deeper it goes)
And maybe the thorns arent a disease, they are the scar tissue, trying to cover the gaping wounds.
@@Nparalelo I always assumed a dragon attack was the cause of the scars on the sea-side of the castle. The same dragon Godrick uses in the fight
@@somerandombub there are claw marks, yes. But they are the fewer, and they are huge.
The dragon godrick has is tiny in comparison.
The idea that all the sharp vines throughout Elden Ring are linked in some way is fascinating.
"Iron vines" resembling barbed wire are used to punish the guilty, and the result was their discovery of aberrant sorceries, creating thorny vines out of their own blood, presumably taught by the "blood star" they found in the darkness without their eyes. The Erdtree protects itself with thorns, using thick, impenetrable vines to defend the gaping wound in its side from would-be invaders like the Tarnished. Godwyn's death and subsequent burial, an obvious defilement of the Golden Order of Marika the Eternal, resulted in the souring of the roots and spread of Deathblight. And now, after Godrick has grafted his flesh with other creatures, the castle he has laid claim to despite not being his own has been torn asunder by yet more thorns.
In nature, there are many thorned vines that climb up the sides of trees, and as we all know that tree symbolism is very important in Elden Ring, it's not unlikely that the thorns are directly related to the Erdtree itself.
It may not even be for punishment, as the thorns used on criminals are, as far as I can tell as a lore novice, artificial, implying they, if not the other vines, aren't made from the Erdtree. So what about the others?
The Aberrant Sorceries were taught to those who had their eyes gouged out, for only then were they able to see their new teacher, the Blood Star. They had their eyes gouged to begin with as punishment for criminal deeds, and the sorceries themselves come from the blood of the caster, which is why they hurt to even cast.
The ones protecting the Erdtree are to cover up the gaping cavity in its side, perhaps some form of injury, like a divine scab. It definitely has been there longer than the Tarnished's crusade for the Erdtree, as from what Morgott says, it seems to have been there as long as he's been Lord of Leyndell.
Godwyn's bizarre death of soul but not body turned him into a cancerous mass that serves no purpose but to attempt to rebuild itself, something impossible without life within. Being buried in the Erdtree, it likely is attempting to infect the Erdtree itself.
and then there's Stormveil. Not only is there signs of Godwyn's spread into the fortress underground, but this is also where Godrick would begin the process of grafting.
What's the tie between all these things? The Erdtree's Thorns and Godwyn's Thorns are both signs of illness in the tree, and Godwyn's Thorns, the Aberrant Thorns, and Godrick's Thorns both seem to be tied to depravity and the profane.
Perhaps thorns are a sign of perversion of the Golden Order, or something of the like.
All this is ignoring the question that's been on my mind this whole time, though: if the vines in Stormveil are from Grafting, why are the exiles laden with thorns and decay, but Godrick himself is not?
as always your videos are awesome,thank you for your hard work Zullie the Witch
Honestly peak videogame content. Bite sized, comfortably edited and comprehensive, subtitles and taking deep dive looks at details
The subject matter, the slow methodical pacing of the imagery and the music are what makes these videos so great.
Something i noticed recently (and i'm truly not sure why i didn't notice it sooner) is that the chapel of anticipation (the building you wake up in at the start of the game) has the exact same architectural theming as stormveil, and in fact, includes the thorns and growing sores caused by whatever curse stormveil suffers from.
Another amazing video, Zullie. Thanks for your hard work!
That shot of the erdtree through the crack in the wall is just something else. Amazing work once again, Zullie!
The Hanged Giant in this picture 1:40 always stuck out to me. Hanged Man is the tarot card that suggests ultimate surrender, sacrifice, or being suspended in time. It was guarded by two Scions. Names mean everything.
so glad to see you back at it zullie, i hope youre doing well
Regarding Godwyn's second "corpse" found beneath the castle -- what if the assassins also cut off one of his legs or feet? And this piece of Godwyn - the "sacred relic" - was buried beneath Stormveil, his home, leading to it becoming the "second Godwyn" and resulting in the area's deathroot infection being particularly vicious? Meanwhile, his remaining leg eventually developed into his mermaid-like tail.
What do you think?
Edit: Alternatively, it occurs to me that the "sacred relic" could be his dong, if the Black Knife Assassins chose to castrate him along with killing his spirit. That would certainly explain why Rogier doesn't go into specifics.
Very esoteric! thank you Zullie, you truly are the best at what you do
Thanks for another interesting video Zullie. We all hope you're doing well and taking care of yourself, we don't want you to burn yourself out for us ❤️
The first one(grafting curse) is the myth, the 2nd one is the true reason, Godwyns corpse, it is also a way to make you explore deeper and find the reason for the castle and the soldiers looking like that.
"A house malignant, boiling with leprosy, with lesions deeper than its walls..."
- (Control, Anatomy, and the Legacy of the Haunted House)
I've always wondered about the thorns on the exiles but clearly never read the shield description, another great video Zullie
i always figured the holes were from Radahn's assault on the castle; they greatly resemble craters caused by high speed impacts being perfectly round and the entire castle garrison is oriented to defending the main gate. the thorns being an indicator of sin or depravity makes sense though
Thank you for another awesome video! Love these dives into the Lore.
I played Elden Ring right after finished DS3 and oh man when I got to Stormveil I had flashbacks from Lothric Castle. It's really cool to see how similar they both are and knowing a few tricks from Lothric Castle actually helped traverse through Stormveil
Bear in mind that the grafting didn't start with Goodrich. Godfroy in the Evergaol is also grafted and being punished for it, though he has no thorns associated with him. It seems unlikely that Goodrich is the source of the thorns alone if his ancestor was not punished the same way.
The writing on these vids just keeps getting better
I love watching these little nugget videos. I know it’s already been some time but I’m glad your back Zulie! I hope your break was restful :)
Glad to see you back! Always love your videos
Wow. I never considered the ramifications of the Erdtree being able to dole out punishment in this way. Great work, as always 🖤
If you compare the exile armor set/enemies to what remains of the herald legion armor/enemies in the DS3 they are very similar, even down to the wear on their leg armor!
When you first reach the Erdtree after defeating Morgott, Melina says you are blocked by a “mantle of barbs”- I think this refers not only to the holy crown thorns relating to the Erdtree’s power, but it also might be interpreted as “the mantle of the barbarians” that “blocks the way”, aka, Godfrey, Chieftan of the Badlands.
I think the holy thorns and the stigmata of Serosh’s death are related to the holes in the lioncrested castle (a reference to biblical story of Saint Jerome and the thorn in the Lion’s Paw)
Furthermore, the Godfrey Icon has a lot of two fingers symbolism, and I think his ‘authority’ grafted to the Erdtree is the Greater Will (much akin to the Rot of Malenia, the Stargaze of Rennala, the Eternity of Marika, the Golden Order of Radagon, and the Grafting of Godrick, etc.)
That Kings Field soundtrack slaps to this day.
Grafting could be what drew Godwyn to manifest a separate corpse all the way to Stormveil. All that death and decay could have made it easier for him to get involved.
I've always been fascinated by grafting in this game. There's strong evidence the Erdtree was grafted onto the Crucible, and Serosh was grafted onto Godfrey. A giant portrait of Godfrey is featured in Godrick's grafting room in Stormveil, and Godrick exclusively grafts Tarnished limbs. Note that Tarnished are now the Greater Will's chosen, which is why Godrick seems be drawn towards grafting them, until nearing defeat, at which point he grafts a dragon (the Greater Will's chosen in an ancient age)
But the Crucible is the Erdtree, just in a more primal form
Your shit is so sick. I've been watching for a long time on many different youtube accounts. I rarely can be seen watching multiple channels across different account through time. Yours is one of them tho.
seeing lore videos so well made with an interesting theories and then comparing to vaati's shitposts is like day and night
My old pc just bugged out and as the video stuttered it created an amazing King's Field OST remix never to be heard again
Ah, the true Eldritch Horror: Scotland.
To be fair, Shadow over Innsmouth is about the Welsh, so maybe all of us in the UK are extradimensionally awesome/horrifying.
Another major point to note, Leyndell’s walls are also covered in thorns where it was struck by artillery, same can be said for the field outside Leyndell’s wall were the Erdtree’s defender fired their own artillery at the besiegers. We know Stormvale was also besieged until Godrick came out to fight Melania. This leads me to believe that the artillery fired is what causes the holes and the thorns within them in the castle walls. It seems the type of ammunition they use in the lands between may have some sworn of thorns or magic containing them within the projectiles.
I'd like to think that the sheer amount of dismembered corpses strewn about the entirety of Stormveil is what attracted Godwyn's presence to begin with. The accumulation of death feeds the deathroot, and in turn, it corrupts those who are tied to Godrick's feverish hunt for grafting material. While the thorns on their armor is most likely a symbol of their sin, their illness is probably a creeping influence of Godwyn and his deathroot.
The thorny briars stretching across Stormveil are much more likely to be from Godwyn alone. In a different video, you covered the cause of damage to the castle, mentioning an off-screen conflict that took part in the past. This likely killed a lot of people in the castle, but with Godrick lacking any respect for the Golden Order and its customs, the dead were never even considered for Erdtree Burial ceremonies, so they just rotted away where they laid. This also attracted the deathroot extending its thorns, accumulating death before some soldiers may have thrown the bodies off the cliffs.
The Lore Hunter made a video on Stormveil's architecture that explores this topic and i think it complements this video very well, anyone interested in learning more i would highly recommend watching that.
Before the video I assumed it was a clear case that Godwyn's corpse was responsible, but you did a great job presenting points in favor of the alternative reason. I love the Elden Ring's lore has this ambiguity, and that things like this are genuinely open to speculation.
Ms zullie can you do a video on the color changes in the sky in elden ring? Could be interesting 😊
I kept expecting the rotted walls to be explained but it wound up not being explicit. Some interesting speculation, and seeing the decay on those soldiers in the castle (this is the first time I really saw it) it tangentially makes me wonder about common enemy variation across the map. Like you have the different crabs and other things you've covered, I wonder if there are other clues hidden by using different character models for what appears to be the same creature.
I always assumed the holes in the walls could be caused by siege weapons used during the shattering, like those huge missile thingies that you find scattered on a battlefield around Leyndell. But since the holes also appear on the Exiles, now we can't be so sure...
@@towelie1313 Like the big spike things with smoke coming out the top? Those are one of the things that haven't really been explained. I wonder if they're just perfumer censers on top of a spike that gets launched by giant or siege weapon to deliver the chemicals to the battlefield. No sign of any launchers that I've seen, though
Yeah, I'd thought that the holes might be siege stuff, or deliberate corruption from an outside source, but I guess I've distanced myself a bit from that idea since I first played.
I think the roots of the great tree can be used as a sewing material in grafting other parts on to royals, since they seem related to the tree. The castle may be using roots to graft its self back together after some battle that took place there. I noticed kindoms keep their rulers theme, with Lyndell having giant roots or vines shattering many buildings and trying to crawl up the erdtree, IMO contesting with it. I also noticed the roots create a perfect pathway for Radagon to make his(and eventually our) way up. Without those vines that are decimating the city, there would be no path way up to Marika, her bedchamber leads to sheer drops and roof tops, as if a prisoner herself or perhaps she has wings. But Stormveil, similar to Lyndell, may actually have two potential contesting rulers, Godwyn in death might have more control of Stormveil then the runt of the liter, so even though the castle is trying to live forever through grafting, it is also decaying.. I said great tree earlier because it's implied that death is being spread through the roots of the great tree, but at Erdtree burial sites.
I know people are pretty split between what that description meant with the erd tree and great tree once having their roots entwined. I'd like to share my view that the erdtree sprouted from the stump of a destroyed great tree, with all seperate aspects of that great twisty tree, sprouting as seperate flowering vines that could eventually grow twist back up into a new great tree. But one of the flowers was gold and it got fed every other aspect as a sacrifice, instead of symbiotically growing together. The Erdtree is a single sprout from the many that grew from a destroyed Great Tree, that got fed into a tree of only gold. But that gold already existed inside the older Great tree and its roots are still there, but everyone in the golden order will call them Erdtree roots now since the tree is quite different now and i'm sure its god at least influences the rules of those roots, prefering not to absorb aspects that would tarnish its gold.
I always assumed the holes where product of war. Always wondered which conflicted caused them but this makes so much sense
Love Zullie 💜
the colossal squid has claws on it's tentacles which strikes me as being very cool and also thematically in line with this
Thanks Zullie! I always wondered about this one.
I can’t believe this came out now. 6 months ago I was literally writing about the Scottish influence on Elden Rings design architecture for my final design essay
I remember when i first saw the godwyn corpse, it was so weird and terrifying
I have the idea that the curse of Grafting is due to Godwyn, I believe grafing comes from Godrick, and Godefroy before him, drawing power from the Godwyn face. Grafting is said to have a sinister origin, Godwyn in Stormveil had a tarp covering the entrance at one point that's still there, and Grafting has a decaying appearance, most obvious when Godrick grafts a completely intact dragon head that instantly decays.
It would be so cool if you did "tour videos" of the mayor castles and dungeons of the soulsborne games!!! there are so many details we miss while playing since we are busy trying to survive we don't notice 'em!
The holes in the side of stormvale is caused by radans meteors also gave me fish
Love this song and soundtrack so much. Always a treat.
Okay we're almost there, all you need to do is look into whats causing the massive bloody slash marks on the castle. Stormveil has both the Briar spewing holes, and the massive slash marks all over the walls as well. So I have your theory for the holes, now I just need a video on the damn slashes please, it's killing me! (In all seriousness though, love your videos, take your time, I'm not trying to be ass, it's just something that I really want to have a theory on is all)
I love the spooky nature of the darkness in Elden Ring. It was so wild the first time i found Godwyn’s weird giant head!
Stormveil is the most intricate, well designed legacy dungeon in the entire game. They definitely put a ton of work into the earliest areas of the game and were a bit rushed toward the end.
So I think that Godwyn's corpse is the likely answer as to why the exiles are cursed and the thorns are growing all along the castle. However, There are a lot of holes and damage on the castle that do not have thorns in or around them, which due to the shape of some, I think were caused by Radahn's assumed attack of the castle that we find out about from Kenneth Haight (*"First he hid himself amongst the womenfolk to flee the capital, then hid from Radahn in that castle…"*). It would explain why the castle is in such disrepair and would also let the thorns wind there way out of the damaged walls. Love your videos :D
I always figured it had something to do w fish man in the depths of the castle. Seems like the most plausible reason.
The garrison of stormveil has quite literally become an embodiment of the whats become of the castle itself. Blasted to all hell and slowly being consumed by thorny vines
1:40 Some things seem to be automatically punished if they are abominable enough. Dragon Communion is also something stated in item descriptions to be "punished" because of it being a grave sin.
I honestly think there is so much info behind the thorn sorcerers. Three key things to them. Red, thorns and fire. The color potentially connected to Radagons iconic red hair. Thorns that protect the tree could be a sign of corruption or involving the thorn related sorceries. And fire being important for stopping rot and yet also a cardinal sin to the golden order for sake of the erdtree.
One other thing to consider is how Elden Rin uses arboreal techniques very literally and taken to fantastical extremes. If, for example, the Erdtree itself is producing the thorns seen on the castle and under Godwyn's face under the castle it could also be a reference to how trees and plants who are transplanted onto an existed trunk or stem will begin to produce thorns as the host is still trying to survive by killing the new host it deems a parasite of sorts.
You know that last line feels like it could refer to Radagon and Marika as well
Don't forget ya boy, the Spellsword (I forget his name) that you meet here- he eventually croaks at the Roundtable Hold from a nasty case of thorn-cooties
Or as the professionals call it: *Godwynorrhea*
Actually you can even see how the eyes of the eyes of the exiles are truning yellowish, just like the chaos madness flames. Stromveil is truly a hellish place if you look deeper into it
Crazy theory:
Taking note that Godwyn's corpse is in Deeproot Depths, underneath Leyndell, and that he seemingly has another body underneath Stormveil....
Perhaps the body underneath Stormveil is there as a result of Godrick's grafting. Maybe he took a piece of Godwyn and attempted grafting it, and the catastrophic result is the slow deathblight of Stormveil itself.
Something I want to mention is how the Godwyn boss might be the massive sea creature boss you talked about in a past video.
I'm looking forward to whatever you're able to pull out of the DLC.
In my most recent playthrough I've been kinda thinking about the Exiled and Banished Knights. I think it is interesting that they are found in places where you wouldn't really expect them to be, with those titles of all things, specially the Exiled.
I think either they were supoosed to be related or found near Elemer, or Elemer got reworked into being from a different land than Eochaid.
There's plenty of soldier reskins in this game, and I find it weird that Godrick, even as disgraced as he is, is in a castle full of banned and exiles.