"The Borodin Quartet played this work for the composer at his Moscow home, hoping for his criticisms. But Shostakovich, overwhelmed by this beautiful realization of his most personal feelings, buried his head in his hands and wept. When they had finished playing, the four musicians quietly packed up their instruments and stole out of the room.” (liner notes by Erik Smith, 1962 Borodin Quarter recording) Now that's drainage.
A wonderful list, again. Thank you. I once heard the Emerson String Quartet in a concert in which they had programmed Shostakovich's No.15 in the first half (!) and Beethoven's No.16 in the second half. I gird up my loins. But, despite my resolve, that first half was so devastating, so exhausting, so draining (and so wonderful!) that I staggered out at the break and couldn't summon the energy and attention for the second half. I left. It remains the only time I've ever done that. Shostakovich Quartet 15 is my drainingest of draining chamber works. Dead flies everywhere.
I agree with everything on your list, but here are a few more suggestions: Tchaikovsky: Piano Trio in A Minor - A terribly sad and long first movement that ends in utter despair. Although the second movement offers some relief, the huge and desolate coda is almost physically exhausting. I'm not sure I ever feel more emotionally drained by music than just after finishing that finale. Smetana: Piano Trio in G Minor - A sort of emotional precursor to Suk's Asrael Symphony mentioned in the orchestral counterpart to this video - the arc is redemptive (despair to hope) but exhausting. The big tune's return in the finale after the funeral march has moved me to tears on several occasions. Prokofiev: Violin Sonata no.1 in F Minor - Terrifying the whole way through - from resigned to explosive to icy - and a complete masterpiece. The second movement is the closest Prokofiev gets to Shostakovich's 'emotionally draining' chamber idiom. Vierne: Piano Quintet - Every movement is as anguished and as dissonant as Vierne's basically Franckian idiom could allow, particularly the totentanz-like finale. Incredibly powerful. Rochberg: String Quartet no.3 - A sort of gnarly chamber music counterpart to Pettersson - islands of neo-romantic tonality amid anguished and spiky string writing. Another exhausting one...
Fantastic list and descriptions. I agree about the Tchaikovsky, the Coda moves me powerfully whenever I listen to it. I'll try the Rochberg which I don't know at all.
Tchaikovsky was always dependable when it came to emotional... umm, drainage. But especially in moments like here, where he was dedicating the work to a deceased friend (correct me if I'm wrong but I read it was the conductor Nikolai Rubinstein). Man, this piece is, to quote an old song, "killing me softly"; and then harder; and then hard. On a fully consistent note, the "realist nightmare" Quintet of the saintly Vierne, the organist of Notre Dame! This is the anguish and tragedy of WW I in a nutshell for those who need contextual details to immerse themselves into a piece... Vierne's son had just been lost to war ("lost" is the right word, for the body was never found after the annihilation of his fighting unit...), and - well the context is not needed, one feels instantly something was terribly wrong there. But, as often, someone's tragedy put into art provides a cleansing effect on us, the listeners. Harrowing - but mandatory.
What great comments. The last work of Shostakovich was the The Sonata for Viola and Piano, Op. 147 - he was dying and left a most moving piece that was depicting the fateful end of life. He was in pain and you feel it in the music. Much of Shostakovich chamber music was his personal statements of his feelings of life, despair, loneliness , death. One of my favorite pieces his is Piano quintet - early in the piece there is a phrase that is used repeatedly in Philip Glass 's Satyagraha. That quintet is an early piece that is dark and foreboding -- before the Nazi invasion of Russia. As always be well. Your passion and insights are most rewarding in my daily life.
I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding Shostakovich Piano Trio 2-I remember the first time I performed it, I was holding back tears during the Finale when the piano has rolling sixteenth notes and the muted violin plays the melody. Being a Cellist, I don’t come in until about two bars after the violin. In that two bar rest I tried to process what was happening and remember being completely overwhelmed. And after playing a large amount of the standard chamber rep, I cannot think of a single piece that sort of “broke” me the way that work did.
I saw the title, and mentally set aside two pieces I hoped would be on your list. After you got to #8 on the list, I was worried, but then you picked the Shostakovich 2nd Piano Trio. Whew! I think Op. 67 is one of the greatest pieces of music ever written. I've always felt the last movement was graphically about the Holocaust. The march theme represents the Nazis, and the Jewish theme, the Jews. There is conflict between the two themes, and the winner is not the side we should be cheering for. The other piece I had in mind, which was not in your list, was Quartet for the End of Time by Messiaen. It is an emotional roller coaster for me, especially the last movement. Messiaen was capable of writing this ethereal, strange and exquisitely beautiful music seemingly on command. There is a similar moment in Saint Francis of Assisi where the angel serenades Francis, that will reduce me to tears every time.
What a list! I was surprised by the inclusion of Haydn's Piano Trio until I went back and listened to it and you're right. It's quite a moving work, particularly for that time. I was not surprised by the Janacek as it is was the first one to pop into my head when I pondered my own list. I don't know that I'd remove any of your inclusions, but I would just like to add a few: The Franck Violin Sonata .... what a moving work - certainly the most emotionally intense work for violin & piano that I've ever come across. Sibelius - The intimate voices string quartet Brahms - The Clarinet Quintet, which like most late Brahms, showcases the composer's most moving passages Dvorak - Piano Quintet - That second movement OMG .... emotionally draining I don't know, but emotionally compelling for sure And yes any of the late Schubert and Beethoven string quartets apply
I know minimalism doesn't get a lot of love in this forum, but I'm surprised no one seems to have mentioned Steve Reich's "Different Trains." (I had thought to suggest this under "vocal works", but it just doesn't compare with the others mentioned there.) I interviewed David Harrington, the 1st violinist of the Kronos Quartet, when it premiered in New York (I was sidelined from the actual concert by a broken leg, and ended up listening to my own voice on the radio from my hospital bed....but I digress). The piece blew me away--I don't think Reich ever lapses into sentimentality or trades on his subject matter, and he achieves moments of surprising beauty despite the brutality of that subject matter. The effect is cathartic in the way that, just as Dave says, "emotionally draining" music can be. Thanks, Dave, for expanding my horizons with your learned and lively commentary!
I absolutely agree with all the works in your list, Dave. But I'd like to add some more, specially in order to promote them (if they needed). -Brahms Piano Quintet and Clarinet Quintet. So quietly sad and nostalgic, and with those melodies full of tears under their beauty. -Schnittke's Piano Quintet, It lets me absolutely devastated and emotionally exhausted, but at the same time I think it is haunting and a quite beautiful work.
Great list! I'd add the Brahms Clarinet Quintet, the quintessence of autumnal musical melancholy, Schoenberg's Quartet No. 1, perhaps the most utterly exhausting chamber work ever, and Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time -- need I say more? Thanks!
I missed your comment before posting something similar about the first Schoenberg. Hearing it live years ago, and actually paying attention and being committed to following the whole thing without tuning out, I found extremely challenging.
Some years ago at the Kennedy Center we were supposed to hear Marc Andre-Hamelin perform the Leo Ornstein Piano Quintet--ridiculously draining in its own right--but the pianist had wrenched his back and could not perform. So, the Pacifica Quartet brought down from NYC a clarinetist to perform with them the Brahms Clarinet Quartet instead. After the piece had finished, my wife turned to me and said, "I didn`t know the clarinet could be played like that." I don`t know if she was drained but at least was stunned, as was I. The clarinetist`s tone was round and luxurious and his pianissimos could barely be heard; his control was absolutely masterful. The clarinetist....the inimitable Anthony McGill. My first introduction to his art!
@@jppitman1 You put off naming the clarinetist for excellent dramatic effect! I also heard him perform the Quintet (with the Pacifica, if I'm not mistaken.) On the technical level alone, his clarinet NEVER squeals. A great artist.
in addition to the two Shostakovich entries, the Schubert E-flat Piano Trio D. 929 would also make mine. 1st movement has IMO an icy cosmic feel in its development 2nd movement pairs what I call a "melt-down" climax in the "Wanderer" key of C# minor with the movement's parallel major, C major that feels unsettling at the same time the Scherzo is a welcome respite, light in the outer sections, but with jolting sforzandi in the Trio that seem triumphant the Finale, using the 2nd movement's theme, ends with a last-minute comeback that only Schubert could have done and that makes it so satisfying
This is a fantastic list. And you're right with Janácek: My mother loved opera and the great symphonies, especially Bruckner and Mahler, but detested chamber music. Then, I played for her a recording of Janácek 2nd quartet, and she was overwhelmed. "This is really a quartet?", she asked. Of course, she heard that it was a quartet, but this is a work, in which the instrumentation doesn't matter. It is, what it is. Well, this time your list overlaps in a way with mine that it would be pointless to make my own complete list. I just want to mention four other works, which are for me equally emotionally draining. 1) BRITTEN - 3rd String Quartet: The work from a dying composer; a last attempt i the search for beauty, sometimes rough as in the folky scherzo, sometimes infinitely tender as in the 3rd movement, "Solo". And the last movement, this barcarolle: Incredible! Thats the boating song from Charon rowing the soul over the Styx; then this final cadence, which wants to force a triad, but is too weak, and all what's left is a single tone from the cello. For me, that's heartbreaking. 2) POULENC - Sonata for Oboe and Piano: What a strange, but marvellous work. The 1st and the 3rd movements are rather slowly, the middle movement is sort of a scherzo, but really jolly it is not. Poulenc writes a music of real bitterness. The melodies are of a pastoral flavor, but these shepherds have nothing to tell but sadness and loneliness. It pierces my heart every time I listen to this work. 3) Pavel HAAS: 3rd String Quartet - that's nearly as poweful and gripping as the Janácek. A work of turmoil sometimes, then bitter, then tender. I like it so much, but I cannot hear it so often because of it's impact on me. 4) Joseph HOROVITZ: 5th Quartet - Horovitz was a really funny composer. He had a natural gift for melody and humour. He wrote for Gerard Hoffnung and for the TV-series "Rumpole". Maybe, his music is a little lightweight, but full of charm. But the 5th quartet shows a completely other side. Being jewish, Horovitz had to flee from Vienna in the time of the nazi barbarians, and he went to England. The 5th quartet deals with the emigration, with the loss of people and home. There are two quotations: One is the nazi-song "Die Fahne hoch", and then comes, infinitely nostalgic and tender, the Wienerlied "Mei Muattal woa a Weanarin" (my mother was from Vienna). The whole work lasts about 16 minutes, but afterwards one is emotionally exhausted.
That’s a great list. The Crumb and Janacek works I have not heard before, so new music to explore. A great talk too. The late Schubert works are indeed superb. I personally would have chosen string quartet No.14, but they are all worth consideration. There was a time when I even found it hard to listen to no.14, it just choked me up.
That tremolo with tinnitus in the last movement of Smetana’s string quartet No. 1 is a bit like horrifying scream of Mahler 10th. And after that, there’s a fate-accepting-like calm ending section. Draining but wonderful. Janacek’s No. 2 is a frantic man’s music. It’s the musical spring-out or maybe coming-out. Beyond my ability of describing. Crazy but wonderful.
I recall the late Charles Rosen getting a bit grumpy in a BBC discussion during a Schubert anniversary. "There is no such thing as late Schubert it's all early!" Great list.
@@bigg2988 It's worth noting, however, that Schubert knew he was either going to die young or lose his mind (to syphilis,) and so we can perhaps say his late period was hastened. Graham Johnson's commentary on Der Leiermann suggests the figure represents Schubert's dread at what his music-making might become.
Yes, it's Second Viennese School, but I think Berg's Chamber Concerto runs a gamut of emotions well beyond dispair and horror. And as someone else already mentioned, Schnittke's Piano Quintet also ensures emotional drainage, as most of his music.
That's a very interesting list, thank you for the input (I have to hear Black Angels). I'd add to my list two russian works: Shostakovich's 15th Quartet. It's austere and painful but also beautiful in it's way of expression. Also on my list would be Tchaikovsky's 3rd quartet esp. for the 3rd movement. After this the joyful finale is a bit hard to take.
My Beethoven pick would've been the Op. 132 if just for the Heiliger Dankgesang. That may be the single most emotionally taxing piece of music ever written. I don't like the Grosse Fugue as the ending of Op. 130. It completely overwhelms the rest of the work. It's like driving along a beautiful and striking landscape and all the sudden you drive straight into an apocalyptic hellscape. For Shostakovich, the 8th is an obvious pick, but the 15th is just as effective. It's such a stark, austere piece that wrings so much out of so little. Shostakovich wrote a lot about death, but I don't think he ever so perfectly captured the feeling of death approaching in the silence and space, that void around and between the notes. When the Jerusalem Quartet recorded the works live (available on TH-cam) I think they made a good choice to play the 15th without the house lights and only tiny clip-on lights illuminating the score. My addition would've been Schnittke's Piano Quintet.
Great list as always. I personally have a soft spot for the Piano trio #2 by Frank Bridge. Maybe not as well known as the ones you mentioned, but an affecting piece nonetheless.
Excellent choices. I'd like to nominate the second movement of Robert Schumann's Piano Quintet in E-flat Major Op. 44 -- and Olivier Messiaen's "Quatuor pour la fin du temps". The Schumann figures in my Ph.D. dissertation "The Byron Operas" about the affective response in Romantic poetry as conveyed through music. There is a sense of struggle against fate in this music. I find it deeply moving.
If you researched the Schumann, then I assume you know that Mendelssohn played the piano for the first performance (Schumann was ill), and later quoted that slow movement theme in the first movement of his Op. 66 piano trio.
Great talk and great suggestion that this collection be used for a beginning for those new to chamber music. I listen to it almost every day. You inspired me to listen to Schubert's quintet again. My read on this ultra-masterpiece is that it energizes me: conversational first movement, pray-like slow-movement. Lots of energy in the last two movements though the trio of the scherzo is rather dark. I find Brahms piano quintet in F minor to be much more draining: the first movement's exhaustive development, the slow movement's deep melancholy, a thunderous scherzo. The finale remains dark with that shuffling main theme. I find this quintet quite draining!
Thanks David. For me I would have included the G major quartet by Dvorak and my favourite Beethoven is his 15th. Also I think I would have chosen the Bartok no. 2 string quartet (possibly in preference to the Janacek).
The slow movement of Dvorak’s G major string quartet (no. 13) is one of the most emotionally devastating pieces of music ever written, chamber or not. Those who dismiss Dvorak as a “light” composer clearly haven’t heard it!
Hello Dave, I would certainly want to include on my list the Brahms Piano Quartet no. 3, Op. 60. It was associated with Goethe’s tragic character of Werther, and with Brahms’ own love for Clara. Its first movement is incredibly intense and very heartbreakingly tragic, the Scherzo is a pounding, galloping frenzy of passion, the slow movement is one of the most achingly beautiful, tear-inducing outpouring of emotion that Brahms or anyone ever wrote. He is sometimes in his other works holding back, but not here. The Finale is a passionate whirlwind interrupted by a bizarre chorale tune answered by sarcastic descending arpeggios, and the whole piece ends in exhaustion and then a surprising loud major chord that is not at all an apotheosis but rather a jolt. It is truly an amazing and draining masterpiece.
David, I was about to castigate you for not including a Janacek quartet and there was "Intimate Letters" at the very end. A wonderful selection of music to boot. Many thanks.
P. S.: GREAT calls on both the Czech stalwarts! Smetana's Quartet is as impactful as they come, while Janacek's "Intimate Letters" is probably my Top 5 Chamber music favorite all-time (for all that's worth...). On a short note, his Quartet No. 1, "Kreutzer sonata", is pretty gripping in its own right (fitting with all your tropes for impactful, incl., in some interpretations, also jealousy and domestic violence). But yes, the No. 2, "Intimate Letters", is unreachable. If only every man could love like that, and be gifted to express it!
A work I consider to be in every list is Ernest Bloch's String Quartet No. 1. A monumental piece that tests players' stamina. It lasts almost an hour long. Still the recording to be beaten is the one on Decca by the Griller Quartet (in mono).
Bloch’s Piano Quintet no. 1 is the first work that springs to my mind when I see the title of this video. A dark, gripping, hauntingly lyrical work and the peaceful ending is like finally reaching the light at the end of a dark tunnel. A work in a similar vein is Leo Ornstein’s equally fantastic piano quintet.
Talking about those sad minuets, I'd like to make you a proposition, Dave. Would you consider a talk about "dances macabres", wich there are so many in the classical music repertory?
I thought you would also do songs. But thinking about it... the research alone could be draining in all aspects, from time to exhaustion. Thanks for these tips!
Great list! I would only add Janacek’s Quartet No. 1 which I find as emotionally draining as the Second. But then as you said, any of Beethoven’s or Schubert’s late quartets could make the list, as well as Smetana’s No. 2
I'm with you about the Janacek! It's my own favorite of the two, and in fact, I've had difficulty listening to the Second during the past year or so. I know I'll find my way back to it without much difficulty. But that galloping passage in the last movement of the First is powerful.
I wonder if anyone has mentioned the Poulenc Clarinet Sonata, written as response to the death of Honegger? The music is filled with pain-filled yelps from the clarinet, and then at one point the clarinet just repeats the same arpeggio back and forth for many measures, as if the hardest resignation has been encountered to a terrible loss. What a great work, and very draining.
I suppose those are suggestions for Dave's further purveys of Classical insights. In your footsteps, I would add: Top 10 greatest UNKNOWN [well relatively] composers of every epoch - Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, (Post-)Romantic [could expand this to Top-20], Impressionist, Modern... Could make for some interesting debates what makes a person's output WORTH knowing.
The arranger for The Washington Symphonic Brass did a treatment of parts of the Shostakovich 8th. It is one HELL of a barn-burner because he gives the rapid 1/16th note section to the trombones, who, even though they are among Washington`s best, must have looked at their parts and cried, "WTF!!!" It sure taxed our Magnapans. They were themselves drained.
Schoenberg's String Trio does it for me, I think it’s pretty intense and brooding; surely more than the stereotypical offset of sounds, that 2nd Viennese composers are casually being associated with.
I played viola in that trio in college - we rehearsed until we had it nearly memorised, and we gave at least five performances. It was truly draining for us. How many of our listeners were drained I can't say. I'm quite sure we didn't do it total justice. It's hard as hell.
I was thinking of this the String Trio also. I think I remember it was written as an evocation of a terrible illness the composer had gone through. or maybe it was dental work? Excruciatingly great music!
There is just so much chamber music of the draining sort, cudos for reducing it all to ten pieces. The Crumb piece I didn't know and found it right away -- it's quite something. Also, thinking about my personal list, I found I had quite a bias -- chamber music is a personal matter indeed, more so than symphonic music. While not being able to kick any of your pieces from the list -- the two Shostakovichs, the Mozart, the Schubert, the Mendelssohn were set in my mind as well. I would include two violin sonatas: Brahms in G and Janácek, which gets me every time. I feel some of Brahms' clarinet stuff must be included here, but I find it hard to choose. Berg's Lyric Suite has been mentioned; I would add Reger's D-minor quartet op. 74.
I was just thinking of making a case for the Brahms G Major Violin Sonata! Its mood, however, is far from tragic, which made me hesitate. But it's deeply joyous, especially at the moment of that delicate ending. (I confess, the middle movement I find less affecting than either of the other two.)
My own emotions are drained by the Brahms piano trio 3 in C minor - something to do with the high compression volatility; like the double concerto but without a jolly finale. The one I - er- enjoy is the Rose -Stern -Istomin performance. Heard it when a kid and was blown away - no holds barred, no prisoners taken.
Great list as usual. If I was to add one more, I would add Ernest Chausson, Piano Quartet Op.30. It is a piece that really tugs at my heart strings. Deeply moving.
Don't know Crumb, and the two Shostakovich not well enough to argue (which I'm not goin to do anyway). Before listening, I made a mental list of what I'd be sure to encounter in your talk. Some right (Janaek, Mendelssohn, Beethoven (even if I chose op. 132 because of the Heiliger Dankgesang) but two I was sure to encounter weren't mentioned. No Brahms! Mister Autumn did know a bit about plumbing, and my choice would have been the clarinet quintet - a piece that for many years I was unable to listen to because of what it did to me. Luckily, that's now in the past. The other was a very, very near miss. You had the Smetana quartet (and a worthy choice it is), and immediately after that asked: "How many tragic piano trios do we know?" when introducig the Haydn. Well, erm, Smetana's! That shattering g-minor trio drains me more effectively than the first quartet, but - as always - you drainage may vary, and apparently does. Wouter van Doorn
There were three pieces I was hoping to see, Black angels, Shostakovich piano trio, and Tchaikovsky piano trio. Besides the absence of the last one I was very satisfied.
Shostakovich originally started writing his second trio in memory of his close friend Ivan Sollertinsky, whose sudden death was a considerable blow to the composer. But while composing it, Shostakovich the Judeophile heard of the liberation of the Majdanek death camp, and thus the last movement of the trio is a harrowing Danse Macabre with that famous Jewish theme. Years ago, when my mother heard it played on my stereo equipment, she said it was actually a working-out of an old version of Am Yisroel Chay (The People of Israel liveth) - in the minor mode. If true, then Shostakovich created here one of the starkest examples of black humor - and that is obviously a huge understatement. Alas, although I've tried many times to locate the original, I never did.
@@ThreadBomb As I said, it depends on the version - there are quite a few musical settings of this text. Obviously, what I'm referring to is some old, traditional one (might be by an unknown composer). Well, I guess it should be left for folklore experts and ethnomusicologists to figure that one out...
I haven't even watched the video yet (but certainly will). GREAT list. Mozart quintet - devastating. (Even - in its own way - the finale. It doesn't "take away the pain" - not for me, anyway). Mendelssohn quartet - Felix raging against god.
I would select Beethoven's 15th String Quartet over any other as the most draining. I'm always moved by the "holy song of thanksgiving" (I don't do German), and feel that the quartet was one of Beethoven's most personal expressions (as was the last piano sonata, which made your list). I would propose an alternative Shostakovich Quartet--the 11th. I have no musical basis for this, but I've always felt when listening to Shostakovich's quartets the influence of Beethoven's C sharp minor quartet. Superficially at least, the 11th is structurally similar to Beethoven's quartet: both have seven movements, although I cannot tell if the 11th shares the arched structure. But the 11th reflects a similar range of moods, from humorous to sad, in short order. I'll have to dig out my Kronos recording of Black Angels.
For me, a piece that certainly belongs on this list is Korngold’s ‘Vier Lieder des Abschieds/ Four Songs of Parting’. It’s like listening to the Trio from the end of ‘Der Rosenkavalier’.
Your brilliant list, plus many excellent suggestions from commentators, leaves little room for further additions. However!....I recently heard Weinberg's Piano Trio for the first time: a work of pulverising intensity that left me limp and exhausted.
Mieczyslaw Weinberg is almost a league of his own for (accessible) 20th Century music... and that bearing in mind how few of his works have really been recorded so far! I would suggest to everyone investigating the relatively fresh recording of his 2nd and (ESPECIALLY) 21st Symphonies by the allied forces of Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla / Birmingham and Gidon Kremer / Kremerata Baltica.
I am sadly lacking in experience in the chamber music field, even though it is a genre I very much enjoy. The only piece from the list I know is Mozart's Quintet. That would make my own meagre list, but topping it would be Schubert's Death and the Maiden. The first time I listened to it, I was totally unprepared. My copy of it is by the Amadeus Quartert and it is paired with the Trout Quintet, which is the entire reason why I got the CD. Death and the Maiden was a shock to the system after the joyous Trout, and I was quite unsettled by it. It made such an impression that I didn't listen to it again for many months later. I have since played it a few times recently, and really come to appreciate its haunted, jagged sound, particularly the slow movement.
No argument at all with your selection of the Haydn F-sharp minor piano trio-an excellent choice. An obvious alternate one would have been the Op. 20 No. 5 F minor string quartet. And as for tragic minuets, a shout-out to the D minor finale of his Symphony No. 26…
A most excellent list with which I concur wholeheartedly, except for doubling-up on Shostakovich. Instead, consider Brahms' Piano Quartet #1 in G minor. Not for nothing was it chosen to accompany one of the moodiest, most tragic of French films, Monsieur Hire.
I think that in the last movement of his g minor quintet Mozart takes us to a special place in classical music where in effect he says 'I just can`t go on any more like this; it`s just too painful' and ends with a happy tune which still sounds like a running away.
Stupid remark about the quintet, isn't it? That happy ending is exactly as Mr McMurchie describes it, and it's a legitimate and very touching emotional response to what has come before.
It is even though the central Adagio (4th momevent) is a very tough piece to classify and pull off, while grosse fuge is indeed tougher in itself and as a finale It hits you really emotionally, I agree with dave
My list would include Arnold Schoenberg's Verklärte Nacht (not to be played during breastfeeding--it will drive both the mother and child crazy), Olivier Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time and Francisco Guerrero's Zayin. I attended a performance of the latter work by the Arditti Quartet in Madrid. When I left, I realised that I had not switched off my cell phone, but luckily nobody called me during the concert. I would have killed myself.
I heard this after the clip on orchestral works. So glad you mentioned the Shostakovich Trio No. 2. Though the 8th Symphony has considerable merit as music,. the statement it makes about the war (inasmuch as any music can be a statement) seems more generalized. The trio, I think, is more powerful because it is so personal, prompted by the death of Ivan Sollertinsky, a close and longtime friend of Shostakovich. One of the last things Sollertinsky did before his death at age 41 was to give remarks on the symphony at one of its first performances. His death was related to pre-existing health problems that were exacerbated because of his need to evacuate Leningrad. I had long assumed the Jewish flavor in the finale (so much like the "Dance of the Dead" in "The Dybbuk") had something to do with Sollertinsky himself, but it might actually be more a tribute to his native city, Vitebsk, the site of a ghetto massacre by Nazis in 1941. I've seen little information on how much Shostakovich knew about the Holocaust when the trio was composed (from late 1943), but it's possible he knew a lot more at that point than most people in the US.
You mention the Haydn Piano Trio #40 in f-sharp minor. I had trouble finding it, because in everything I look at it's #26. (In the Peters edition it was apparently #2.) My references are the Beaux Arts Trio set, the New Grove Dictionary of 1980, and the Rosemary Hughes Haydn biography in a Collier paperback (1963). The reference in the Grove has a note to see an entry on Symphony 102, which is how I know they're referring to the same trio that you speak about.
Honestly I was just eager to see which Beethoven quartet you included hahahaha. 13 is my favorite so, as we say nowadays, you passed the vibe check Mr Hurwitz. I'd like to add perhaps mozart quartet 15, Caroline Shaw Partita for 8 voices, Prokofiev violin sonata no 1, Brahms clarinet quintet, Dvorak piano quintet, and haydn 7 last words for quartet.
Considering there 1) won't be another talk on this topic and 2) you would have to really dig deep to compile decent list of 10 emotionally draining concertos, I would just like to add the Berg Violin Concerto to this pile of emotional drainage you have presented us with in these last few talks. That woodwind Bach chorale in the second movement just hits you like a punch to the gut and it's absolutely amazing.
Schubert, Schumann, and Tchaikovsky, among others, considered Beethoven's opus 131 to be the greatest ever piece of chamber music and who am I to disagree? The finale rips my heart out with every listening.
Nothing by Brahms? Always thought his Piano Quintet to be very draining. Don't you love / dread those piano competition semi-finals where you get the Brahms and Franck piano quintets (both in F minor) in the same afternoon?
In all the commentary I've ever read on the Quintet, I've never seen anyone mention how emotionally intense the minor key middle section of the Adagio is. The string tremolos really take me to the edge.
Let’s throw in Verklarte Nacht, in its original chamber version. At least as an honorable mention. I’d have opted for Beethoven’s op.131 instead, but as you say there are a number of good options. Shostakovich’s 15th quartet is draining, but the two you picked are better pieces. The Bach d minor partita for violin deserves mention just because of the Chaconne.
Hi Dave! I was inspired this morning by your "bad day" videos with the idea of a related series of videos of composers' works which least reflect their voice or signature...For example, Beethoven's Wellington's Victory has always struck me as drek that he wrote just for the money and very unBeethovenish...In other words, composers just putting notes on a page without their inspiration or personality...Just a suggestion...Thanks!
Besides the Brahms clarinet quintet, I’m surprised no one has suggested the Bartók sixth quartet. Also, if you take away the “emotionally” and leave it at just “draining” then the first Schoenberg quartet… to actually try to follow it and understand it for me at least is extremely exhausting.
I love the Mendelssohn F minor quartet, but I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone milk that slow movement to the utmost. BTW, I have a theory that this quartet was the original model for Mahler's 6th. I absolutely agree about the ending of the Mozart quintet - the "happiness" is ironic, not sincere. Some performers don't get that, or at least are not able to convey it.
Great lists in all of this series. May be cheating here but I find the Bach Chaconne to be simultaneously draining and exhilarating. I always have to take quiet time after hearing it.
Shostakovich String Quartet No 10, the Allegretto furioso punches you so hard that it kicks you knock out. Draining and almost lethal. That man had some aggression in himself.
Question for Dave: I heartily agree about the Shosty pieces and I'd like to ask about the origin of the amazing "Jewish" theme that they have in common. Is it original, or a traditional tune he appropriated? Thanks in advance.
I recall from Artur Rubinstein's glorious memoirs that he wanted those famous bars of the Schubert String Quintet etched on his gravestone. BTW I'm surprised that Pachelbel's Canon hasn't been nominated - so many cellists burst into tears at the thought of having to play it ... again and again for the rest of their lives.
I think any list of emotionally draining music would not be complete without Galina Ustvolskaya's Grand Duet for piano and cello. When first hearing an Ustvolskaya composition, I can't remember which one, Stravinsky sarcastically stated (a parapharase), that's what the Soviet Union/Iron curtain sounds like! This music is dark and unrelenting......
Smetana's Piano Trio begins with an agonized theme and finds a sort of consolation, perhaps mixed with bravado, towards the end. My favorite example not on this list.
Really, what is it with F Minor / F sharp Minor? Whenever I see that notation, even for an unknown piece, it is an almost sure pointer I can count on some SAD entertainment, if the oxymoron makes any sense. :) By "heeding the F Minor", I came across, to give but one example off the "beaten path", Norbert Burgmuller's Piano concerto and Piano sonata, both in the fateful desolate key. Too little known, probably, to be entered into the Top-10 of emotionally draining music, but anyone is well advised to check these works out! Boy do they sound tragic, for such a young man!.. It is as if he saw his fate written in front of him. Why only a single Concerto and a single Sonata?.. Well, Norbert (to differentiate from his Paris-based bro Friedrich, a friend of Liszt and productive composer of happy "champagne" / operetta style - go figure what was in the genes!) was a child of the Early Romanticism through and through, who died of epylepsia at mere 26. He could have been the next big hope of post-Beethoven German musical establishment. Mendelssohn, for one, called his loss irretrievable for the musical world, and composed a funeral march in the youth's honor. The trivia is very interesting, but the point is, Norbert Burgmuller ought to be considered for the Hall of Fame of F Minor Classics.
Driving home from work a couple days ago Sirius XM played Smetata's Festive Symphony from the early 1850's and revised in 1881. I like it. (but not necessarily emotionally drained) What do you think of it?
@@DavesClassicalGuide But a great theme! If anyone loves Mahler and somehow does not know the "Quartetsatz" (I found such people), must correct that at once.
My list: Gabriel Faure piano quartet no.2 Jean Hure piano quintet Nikolai Medtner violin sonata no.2&3 Gabriel Pierne piano quintet Sergei Taneyev piano quartet & quintet Louis Vierne violin sonata & piano quintet Schoenberg Verklarte Nacht
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“Late Schubert chamber music”. It amazes me every time that Schubert passed away when he was only 32 I think. What a genius!
"The Borodin Quartet played this work for the composer at his Moscow home, hoping for his criticisms. But Shostakovich, overwhelmed by this beautiful realization of his most personal feelings, buried his head in his hands and wept. When they had finished playing, the four musicians quietly packed up their instruments and stole out of the room.” (liner notes by Erik Smith, 1962 Borodin Quarter recording) Now that's drainage.
Seepage too!
A wonderful list, again. Thank you.
I once heard the Emerson String Quartet in a concert in which they had programmed Shostakovich's No.15 in the first half (!) and Beethoven's No.16 in the second half. I gird up my loins. But, despite my resolve, that first half was so devastating, so exhausting, so draining (and so wonderful!) that I staggered out at the break and couldn't summon the energy and attention for the second half. I left. It remains the only time I've ever done that. Shostakovich Quartet 15 is my drainingest of draining chamber works. Dead flies everywhere.
I hear you!
I agree with everything on your list, but here are a few more suggestions:
Tchaikovsky: Piano Trio in A Minor
- A terribly sad and long first movement that ends in utter despair. Although the second movement offers some relief, the huge and desolate coda is almost physically exhausting. I'm not sure I ever feel more emotionally drained by music than just after finishing that finale.
Smetana: Piano Trio in G Minor
- A sort of emotional precursor to Suk's Asrael Symphony mentioned in the orchestral counterpart to this video - the arc is redemptive (despair to hope) but exhausting. The big tune's return in the finale after the funeral march has moved me to tears on several occasions.
Prokofiev: Violin Sonata no.1 in F Minor
- Terrifying the whole way through - from resigned to explosive to icy - and a complete masterpiece. The second movement is the closest Prokofiev gets to Shostakovich's 'emotionally draining' chamber idiom.
Vierne: Piano Quintet
- Every movement is as anguished and as dissonant as Vierne's basically Franckian idiom could allow, particularly the totentanz-like finale. Incredibly powerful.
Rochberg: String Quartet no.3
- A sort of gnarly chamber music counterpart to Pettersson - islands of neo-romantic tonality amid anguished and spiky string writing. Another exhausting one...
Fantastic list and descriptions. I agree about the Tchaikovsky, the Coda moves me powerfully whenever I listen to it. I'll try the Rochberg which I don't know at all.
Tchaikovsky was always dependable when it came to emotional... umm, drainage. But especially in moments like here, where he was dedicating the work to a deceased friend (correct me if I'm wrong but I read it was the conductor Nikolai Rubinstein). Man, this piece is, to quote an old song, "killing me softly"; and then harder; and then hard.
On a fully consistent note, the "realist nightmare" Quintet of the saintly Vierne, the organist of Notre Dame! This is the anguish and tragedy of WW I in a nutshell for those who need contextual details to immerse themselves into a piece... Vierne's son had just been lost to war ("lost" is the right word, for the body was never found after the annihilation of his fighting unit...), and - well the context is not needed, one feels instantly something was terribly wrong there. But, as often, someone's tragedy put into art provides a cleansing effect on us, the listeners. Harrowing - but mandatory.
I love Vierne's Piano Quintet. In fact, I love more-or-less ALL piano quintets because of their expressive potential, but Vierne's is very special.
What great comments. The last work of Shostakovich was the The Sonata for Viola and Piano, Op. 147 - he was dying and left a most moving piece that was depicting the fateful end of life. He was in pain and you feel it in the music. Much of Shostakovich chamber music was his personal statements of his feelings of life, despair, loneliness , death. One of my favorite pieces his is Piano quintet - early in the piece there is a phrase that is used repeatedly in Philip Glass 's Satyagraha. That quintet is an early piece that is dark and foreboding -- before the Nazi invasion of Russia. As always be well. Your passion and insights are most rewarding in my daily life.
It's interesting that Shostakovich's viola sonata quotes Beethoven's "Moonlight" theme -- and so does Mendelssohn's sonata.
I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding Shostakovich Piano Trio 2-I remember the first time I performed it, I was holding back tears during the Finale when the piano has rolling sixteenth notes and the muted violin plays the melody. Being a Cellist, I don’t come in until about two bars after the violin. In that two bar rest I tried to process what was happening and remember being completely overwhelmed. And after playing a large amount of the standard chamber rep, I cannot think of a single piece that sort of “broke” me the way that work did.
Thank you for sharing that experience.
It may be tragic, but a good performance of that finale makes me want to dance.
I saw the title, and mentally set aside two pieces I hoped would be on your list. After you got to #8 on the list, I was worried, but then you picked the Shostakovich 2nd Piano Trio. Whew! I think Op. 67 is one of the greatest pieces of music ever written. I've always felt the last movement was graphically about the Holocaust. The march theme represents the Nazis, and the Jewish theme, the Jews. There is conflict between the two themes, and the winner is not the side we should be cheering for. The other piece I had in mind, which was not in your list, was Quartet for the End of Time by Messiaen. It is an emotional roller coaster for me, especially the last movement. Messiaen was capable of writing this ethereal, strange and exquisitely beautiful music seemingly on command. There is a similar moment in Saint Francis of Assisi where the angel serenades Francis, that will reduce me to tears every time.
What a list! I was surprised by the inclusion of Haydn's Piano Trio until I went back and listened to it and you're right. It's quite a moving work, particularly for that time. I was not surprised by the Janacek as it is was the first one to pop into my head when I pondered my own list. I don't know that I'd remove any of your inclusions, but I would just like to add a few:
The Franck Violin Sonata .... what a moving work - certainly the most emotionally intense work for violin & piano that I've ever come across.
Sibelius - The intimate voices string quartet
Brahms - The Clarinet Quintet, which like most late Brahms, showcases the composer's most moving passages
Dvorak - Piano Quintet - That second movement OMG .... emotionally draining I don't know, but emotionally compelling for sure
And yes any of the late Schubert and Beethoven string quartets apply
I know minimalism doesn't get a lot of love in this forum, but I'm surprised no one seems to have mentioned Steve Reich's "Different Trains." (I had thought to suggest this under "vocal works", but it just doesn't compare with the others mentioned there.) I interviewed David Harrington, the 1st violinist of the Kronos Quartet, when it premiered in New York (I was sidelined from the actual concert by a broken leg, and ended up listening to my own voice on the radio from my hospital bed....but I digress). The piece blew me away--I don't think Reich ever lapses into sentimentality or trades on his subject matter, and he achieves moments of surprising beauty despite the brutality of that subject matter. The effect is cathartic in the way that, just as Dave says, "emotionally draining" music can be.
Thanks, Dave, for expanding my horizons with your learned and lively commentary!
Your welcome. I'm with you on the Reich--a very deep and moving piece.
I absolutely agree with all the works in your list, Dave. But I'd like to add some more, specially in order to promote them (if they needed).
-Brahms Piano Quintet and Clarinet Quintet. So quietly sad and nostalgic, and with those melodies full of tears under their beauty.
-Schnittke's Piano Quintet, It lets me absolutely devastated and emotionally exhausted, but at the same time I think it is haunting and a quite beautiful work.
Hey, I wanted to name the Schnittke! I agree about the Clarinet Quintet.
Great list! I'd add the Brahms Clarinet Quintet, the quintessence of autumnal musical melancholy, Schoenberg's Quartet No. 1, perhaps the most utterly exhausting chamber work ever, and Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time -- need I say more? Thanks!
The minor key middle section of the slow movement of the Brahms is intense, and I often find it emotionally overwhelming.
I missed your comment before posting something similar about the first Schoenberg. Hearing it live years ago, and actually paying attention and being committed to following the whole thing without tuning out, I found extremely challenging.
Some years ago at the Kennedy Center we were supposed to hear Marc Andre-Hamelin perform the Leo Ornstein Piano Quintet--ridiculously draining in its own right--but the pianist had wrenched his back and could not perform. So, the Pacifica Quartet brought down from NYC a clarinetist to perform with them the Brahms Clarinet Quartet instead. After the piece had finished, my wife turned to me and said, "I didn`t know the clarinet could be played like that." I don`t know if she was drained but at least was stunned, as was I. The clarinetist`s tone was round and luxurious and his pianissimos could barely be heard; his control was absolutely masterful. The clarinetist....the inimitable Anthony McGill. My first introduction to his art!
I too am surprised Dave didn't include Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time on this list.
@@jppitman1 You put off naming the clarinetist for excellent dramatic effect! I also heard him perform the Quintet (with the Pacifica, if I'm not mistaken.) On the technical level alone, his clarinet NEVER squeals. A great artist.
in addition to the two Shostakovich entries, the Schubert E-flat Piano Trio D. 929 would also make mine.
1st movement has IMO an icy cosmic feel in its development
2nd movement pairs what I call a "melt-down" climax in the "Wanderer" key of C# minor with the movement's parallel major, C major that feels unsettling at the same time
the Scherzo is a welcome respite, light in the outer sections, but with jolting sforzandi in the Trio that seem triumphant
the Finale, using the 2nd movement's theme, ends with a last-minute comeback that only Schubert could have done and that makes it so satisfying
This is a fantastic list. And you're right with Janácek: My mother loved opera and the great symphonies, especially Bruckner and Mahler, but detested chamber music. Then, I played for her a recording of Janácek 2nd quartet, and she was overwhelmed. "This is really a quartet?", she asked. Of course, she heard that it was a quartet, but this is a work, in which the instrumentation doesn't matter. It is, what it is.
Well, this time your list overlaps in a way with mine that it would be pointless to make my own complete list. I just want to mention four other works, which are for me equally emotionally draining.
1) BRITTEN - 3rd String Quartet: The work from a dying composer; a last attempt i the search for beauty, sometimes rough as in the folky scherzo, sometimes infinitely tender as in the 3rd movement, "Solo". And the last movement, this barcarolle: Incredible! Thats the boating song from Charon rowing the soul over the Styx; then this final cadence, which wants to force a triad, but is too weak, and all what's left is a single tone from the cello. For me, that's heartbreaking.
2) POULENC - Sonata for Oboe and Piano: What a strange, but marvellous work. The 1st and the 3rd movements are rather slowly, the middle movement is sort of a scherzo, but really jolly it is not. Poulenc writes a music of real bitterness. The melodies are of a pastoral flavor, but these shepherds have nothing to tell but sadness and loneliness. It pierces my heart every time I listen to this work.
3) Pavel HAAS: 3rd String Quartet - that's nearly as poweful and gripping as the Janácek. A work of turmoil sometimes, then bitter, then tender. I like it so much, but I cannot hear it so often because of it's impact on me.
4) Joseph HOROVITZ: 5th Quartet - Horovitz was a really funny composer. He had a natural gift for melody and humour. He wrote for Gerard Hoffnung and for the TV-series "Rumpole". Maybe, his music is a little lightweight, but full of charm. But the 5th quartet shows a completely other side. Being jewish, Horovitz had to flee from Vienna in the time of the nazi barbarians, and he went to England. The 5th quartet deals with the emigration, with the loss of people and home. There are two quotations: One is the nazi-song "Die Fahne hoch", and then comes, infinitely nostalgic and tender, the Wienerlied "Mei Muattal woa a Weanarin" (my mother was from Vienna). The whole work lasts about 16 minutes, but afterwards one is emotionally exhausted.
That’s a great list. The Crumb and Janacek works I have not heard before, so new music to explore. A great talk too. The late Schubert works are indeed superb. I personally would have chosen string quartet No.14, but they are all worth consideration. There was a time when I even found it hard to listen to no.14, it just choked me up.
That tremolo with tinnitus in the last movement of Smetana’s string quartet No. 1 is a bit like horrifying scream of Mahler 10th. And after that, there’s a fate-accepting-like calm ending section. Draining but wonderful. Janacek’s No. 2 is a frantic man’s music. It’s the musical spring-out or maybe coming-out. Beyond my ability of describing. Crazy but wonderful.
I recall the late Charles Rosen getting a bit grumpy in a BBC discussion during a Schubert anniversary. "There is no such thing as late Schubert it's all early!" Great list.
And therein lies the tragedy. At 50, Schubert MIGHT have been... His "late" works point to the ethereal and the time-denying.
@@bigg2988 It's worth noting, however, that Schubert knew he was either going to die young or lose his mind (to syphilis,) and so we can perhaps say his late period was hastened. Graham Johnson's commentary on Der Leiermann suggests the figure represents Schubert's dread at what his music-making might become.
Yes, it's Second Viennese School, but I think Berg's Chamber Concerto runs a gamut of emotions well beyond dispair and horror. And as someone else already mentioned, Schnittke's Piano Quintet also ensures emotional drainage, as most of his music.
It's one of Schnittke's best works (possibly his best).
That's a very interesting list, thank you for the input (I have to hear Black Angels). I'd add to my list two russian works: Shostakovich's 15th Quartet. It's austere and painful but also beautiful in it's way of expression. Also on my list would be Tchaikovsky's 3rd quartet esp. for the 3rd movement. After this the joyful finale is a bit hard to take.
My Beethoven pick would've been the Op. 132 if just for the Heiliger Dankgesang. That may be the single most emotionally taxing piece of music ever written. I don't like the Grosse Fugue as the ending of Op. 130. It completely overwhelms the rest of the work. It's like driving along a beautiful and striking landscape and all the sudden you drive straight into an apocalyptic hellscape.
For Shostakovich, the 8th is an obvious pick, but the 15th is just as effective. It's such a stark, austere piece that wrings so much out of so little. Shostakovich wrote a lot about death, but I don't think he ever so perfectly captured the feeling of death approaching in the silence and space, that void around and between the notes. When the Jerusalem Quartet recorded the works live (available on TH-cam) I think they made a good choice to play the 15th without the house lights and only tiny clip-on lights illuminating the score.
My addition would've been Schnittke's Piano Quintet.
This is spot on. The best of your drainage series!
Great list as always. I personally have a soft spot for the Piano trio #2 by Frank Bridge. Maybe not as well known as the ones you mentioned, but an affecting piece nonetheless.
Excellent choices. I'd like to nominate the second movement of Robert Schumann's Piano Quintet in E-flat Major Op. 44 -- and Olivier Messiaen's "Quatuor pour la fin du temps". The Schumann figures in my Ph.D. dissertation "The Byron Operas" about the affective response in Romantic poetry as conveyed through music. There is a sense of struggle against fate in this music. I find it deeply moving.
If you researched the Schumann, then I assume you know that Mendelssohn played the piano for the first performance (Schumann was ill), and later quoted that slow movement theme in the first movement of his Op. 66 piano trio.
Nice drainage list - not that I can seriously entertain the idea of upbeat and happy Dave Hurwitz ever being emotionally drained !
Great talk and great suggestion that this collection be used for a beginning for those new to chamber music. I listen to it almost every day. You inspired me to listen to Schubert's quintet again. My read on this ultra-masterpiece is that it energizes me: conversational first movement, pray-like slow-movement. Lots of energy in the last two movements though the trio of the scherzo is rather dark. I find Brahms piano quintet in F minor to be much more draining: the first movement's exhaustive development, the slow movement's deep melancholy, a thunderous scherzo. The finale remains dark with that shuffling main theme. I find this quintet quite draining!
Thanks David. For me I would have included the G major quartet by Dvorak and my favourite Beethoven is his 15th. Also I think I would have chosen the Bartok no. 2 string quartet (possibly in preference to the Janacek).
I agree on Bartok, although my choice would be No. 5.
Yes to the Dvorak. What a piece!
The slow movement of Dvorak’s G major string quartet (no. 13) is one of the most emotionally devastating pieces of music ever written, chamber or not. Those who dismiss Dvorak as a “light” composer clearly haven’t heard it!
@@kylejohnson8877 totally agree. Masterpiece.
Hello Dave,
I would certainly want to include on my list the Brahms Piano Quartet no. 3, Op. 60. It was associated with Goethe’s tragic character of Werther, and with Brahms’ own love for Clara. Its first movement is incredibly intense and very heartbreakingly tragic, the Scherzo is a pounding, galloping frenzy of passion, the slow movement is one of the most achingly beautiful, tear-inducing outpouring of emotion that Brahms or anyone ever wrote. He is sometimes in his other works holding back, but not here. The Finale is a passionate whirlwind interrupted by a bizarre chorale tune answered by sarcastic descending arpeggios, and the whole piece ends in exhaustion and then a surprising loud major chord that is not at all an apotheosis but rather a jolt. It is truly an amazing and draining masterpiece.
I remember Brahms himself wrote about this as being akin to holding a loaded pistol to the protagonist's / composer's head.
First movement of the first string quartet of Bartok for me
David, I was about to castigate you for not including a Janacek quartet and there was "Intimate Letters" at the very end. A wonderful selection of music to boot. Many thanks.
P. S.: GREAT calls on both the Czech stalwarts! Smetana's Quartet is as impactful as they come, while Janacek's "Intimate Letters" is probably my Top 5 Chamber music favorite all-time (for all that's worth...). On a short note, his Quartet No. 1, "Kreutzer sonata", is pretty gripping in its own right (fitting with all your tropes for impactful, incl., in some interpretations, also jealousy and domestic violence). But yes, the No. 2, "Intimate Letters", is unreachable. If only every man could love like that, and be gifted to express it!
A work I consider to be in every list is Ernest Bloch's String Quartet No. 1. A monumental piece that tests players' stamina. It lasts almost an hour long. Still the recording to be beaten is the one on Decca by the Griller Quartet (in mono).
Bloch’s Piano Quintet no. 1 is the first work that springs to my mind when I see the title of this video. A dark, gripping, hauntingly lyrical work and the peaceful ending is like finally reaching the light at the end of a dark tunnel. A work in a similar vein is Leo Ornstein’s equally fantastic piano quintet.
Talking about those sad minuets, I'd like to make you a proposition, Dave. Would you consider a talk about "dances macabres", wich there are so many in the classical music repertory?
I sure would. But as you say, there are so many!
I like the idea and don't think it's that big a problem that there are so many. Every list is incomplete and arbitrary!
I thought you would also do songs. But thinking about it... the research alone could be draining in all aspects, from time to exhaustion. Thanks for these tips!
For myself, it would probably be something by Schumann.
Great list! I would only add Janacek’s Quartet No. 1 which I find as emotionally draining as the Second. But then as you said, any of Beethoven’s or Schubert’s late quartets could make the list, as well as Smetana’s No. 2
I'm with you about the Janacek! It's my own favorite of the two, and in fact, I've had difficulty listening to the Second during the past year or so. I know I'll find my way back to it without much difficulty. But that galloping passage in the last movement of the First is powerful.
I wonder if anyone has mentioned the Poulenc Clarinet Sonata, written as response to the death of Honegger? The music is filled with pain-filled yelps from the clarinet, and then at one point the clarinet just repeats the same arpeggio back and forth for many measures, as if the hardest resignation has been encountered to a terrible loss. What a great work, and very draining.
Top 10 greatest composers for the human voice.
Top 10 composers who made music moves forward the most, progress.
I suppose those are suggestions for Dave's further purveys of Classical insights.
In your footsteps, I would add:
Top 10 greatest UNKNOWN [well relatively] composers of every epoch - Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, (Post-)Romantic [could expand this to Top-20], Impressionist, Modern... Could make for some interesting debates what makes a person's output WORTH knowing.
The arranger for The Washington Symphonic Brass did a treatment of parts of the Shostakovich 8th. It is one HELL of a barn-burner because he gives the rapid 1/16th note section to the trombones, who, even though they are among Washington`s best, must have looked at their parts and cried, "WTF!!!" It sure taxed our Magnapans. They were themselves drained.
Schoenberg's String Trio does it for me, I think it’s pretty intense and brooding; surely more than the stereotypical offset of sounds, that 2nd Viennese composers are casually being associated with.
I agree - my own first thought after considering Dave's list. What a work!
I played viola in that trio in college - we rehearsed until we had it nearly memorised, and we gave at least five performances. It was truly draining for us. How many of our listeners were drained I can't say. I'm quite sure we didn't do it total justice. It's hard as hell.
I was thinking of this the String Trio also. I think I remember it was written as an evocation of a terrible illness the composer had gone through. or maybe it was dental work? Excruciatingly great music!
@@ppfuchs Heart attack - got one of those injections directly into the heart.
@@marknewkirk4322 Yikes!
There is just so much chamber music of the draining sort, cudos for reducing it all to ten pieces. The Crumb piece I didn't know and found it right away -- it's quite something. Also, thinking about my personal list, I found I had quite a bias -- chamber music is a personal matter indeed, more so than symphonic music. While not being able to kick any of your pieces from the list -- the two Shostakovichs, the Mozart, the Schubert, the Mendelssohn were set in my mind as well. I would include two violin sonatas: Brahms in G and Janácek, which gets me every time. I feel some of Brahms' clarinet stuff must be included here, but I find it hard to choose. Berg's Lyric Suite has been mentioned; I would add Reger's D-minor quartet op. 74.
I was just thinking of making a case for the Brahms G Major Violin Sonata! Its mood, however, is far from tragic, which made me hesitate. But it's deeply joyous, especially at the moment of that delicate ending. (I confess, the middle movement I find less affecting than either of the other two.)
My own emotions are drained by the Brahms piano trio 3 in C minor - something to do with the high compression volatility; like the double concerto but without a jolly finale. The one I - er- enjoy is the Rose -Stern -Istomin performance. Heard it when a kid and was blown away - no holds barred, no prisoners taken.
Great list as usual. If I was to add one more, I would add Ernest Chausson, Piano Quartet Op.30. It is a piece that really tugs at my heart strings. Deeply moving.
Don't know Crumb, and the two Shostakovich not well enough to argue (which I'm not goin to do anyway). Before listening, I made a mental list of what I'd be sure to encounter in your talk. Some right (Janaek, Mendelssohn, Beethoven (even if I chose op. 132 because of the Heiliger Dankgesang) but two I was sure to encounter weren't mentioned. No Brahms! Mister Autumn did know a bit about plumbing, and my choice would have been the clarinet quintet - a piece that for many years I was unable to listen to because of what it did to me. Luckily, that's now in the past.
The other was a very, very near miss. You had the Smetana quartet (and a worthy choice it is), and immediately after that asked: "How many tragic piano trios do we know?" when introducig the Haydn. Well, erm, Smetana's! That shattering g-minor trio drains me more effectively than the first quartet, but - as always - you drainage may vary, and apparently does.
Wouter van Doorn
There were three pieces I was hoping to see, Black angels, Shostakovich piano trio, and Tchaikovsky piano trio. Besides the absence of the last one I was very satisfied.
Shostakovich originally started writing his second trio in memory of his close friend Ivan Sollertinsky, whose sudden death was a considerable blow to the composer. But while composing it, Shostakovich the Judeophile heard of the liberation of the Majdanek death camp, and thus the last movement of the trio is a harrowing Danse Macabre with that famous Jewish theme. Years ago, when my mother heard it played on my stereo equipment, she said it was actually a working-out of an old version of Am Yisroel Chay (The People of Israel liveth) - in the minor mode. If true, then Shostakovich created here one of the starkest examples of black humor - and that is obviously a huge understatement. Alas, although I've tried many times to locate the original, I never did.
I just listened to a recording of "Am Yisroel Chay" and can't hear a resemblance.
@@ThreadBomb As I said, it depends on the version - there are quite a few musical settings of this text. Obviously, what I'm referring to is some old, traditional one (might be by an unknown composer). Well, I guess it should be left for folklore experts and ethnomusicologists to figure that one out...
Just discovered the Crumb from you, it really, *really* scared me. Loved it
I'm so glad. Thanks for reporting back. Those electric insects are quite something, aren't they?
@@DavesClassicalGuide absolutely
I haven't even watched the video yet (but certainly will). GREAT list. Mozart quintet - devastating. (Even - in its own way - the finale. It doesn't "take away the pain" - not for me, anyway). Mendelssohn quartet - Felix raging against god.
I would select Beethoven's 15th String Quartet over any other as the most draining. I'm always moved by the "holy song of thanksgiving" (I don't do German), and feel that the quartet was one of Beethoven's most personal expressions (as was the last piano sonata, which made your list).
I would propose an alternative Shostakovich Quartet--the 11th. I have no musical basis for this, but I've always felt when listening to Shostakovich's quartets the influence of Beethoven's C sharp minor quartet. Superficially at least, the 11th is structurally similar to Beethoven's quartet: both have seven movements, although I cannot tell if the 11th shares the arched structure. But the 11th reflects a similar range of moods, from humorous to sad, in short order.
I'll have to dig out my Kronos recording of Black Angels.
I agree with you about the A Minor Quartet, especially the slow movement. There's nothing like it.
For me, a piece that certainly belongs on this list is Korngold’s ‘Vier Lieder des Abschieds/ Four Songs of Parting’. It’s like listening to the Trio from the end of ‘Der Rosenkavalier’.
Your brilliant list, plus many excellent suggestions from commentators, leaves little room for further additions. However!....I recently heard Weinberg's Piano Trio for the first time: a work of pulverising intensity that left me limp and exhausted.
Mieczyslaw Weinberg is almost a league of his own for (accessible) 20th Century music... and that bearing in mind how few of his works have really been recorded so far! I would suggest to everyone investigating the relatively fresh recording of his 2nd and (ESPECIALLY) 21st Symphonies by the allied forces of Mirga Gražinytė-Tyla / Birmingham and Gidon Kremer / Kremerata Baltica.
I am sadly lacking in experience in the chamber music field, even though it is a genre I very much enjoy. The only piece from the list I know is Mozart's Quintet. That would make my own meagre list, but topping it would be Schubert's Death and the Maiden. The first time I listened to it, I was totally unprepared. My copy of it is by the Amadeus Quartert and it is paired with the Trout Quintet, which is the entire reason why I got the CD. Death and the Maiden was a shock to the system after the joyous Trout, and I was quite unsettled by it. It made such an impression that I didn't listen to it again for many months later. I have since played it a few times recently, and really come to appreciate its haunted, jagged sound, particularly the slow movement.
No argument at all with your selection of the Haydn F-sharp minor piano trio-an excellent choice. An obvious alternate one would have been the Op. 20 No. 5 F minor string quartet.
And as for tragic minuets, a shout-out to the D minor finale of his Symphony No. 26…
A most excellent list with which I concur wholeheartedly, except for doubling-up on Shostakovich. Instead, consider Brahms' Piano Quartet #1 in G minor. Not for nothing was it chosen to accompany one of the moodiest, most tragic of French films, Monsieur Hire.
I think that in the last movement of his g minor quintet Mozart takes us to a special place in classical music where in effect he says 'I just can`t go on any more like this; it`s just too painful' and ends with a happy tune which still sounds like a running away.
Stupid remark about the quintet, isn't it? That happy ending is exactly as Mr McMurchie describes it, and it's a legitimate and very touching emotional response to what has come before.
I think Beethoven’s 14th string quartet is very emotional.
It is even though the central Adagio (4th momevent) is a very tough piece to classify and pull off, while grosse fuge is indeed tougher in itself and as a finale It hits you really emotionally, I agree with dave
I would add Shostakovich 14th quartet Also
My list would include Arnold Schoenberg's Verklärte Nacht (not to be played during breastfeeding--it will drive both the mother and child crazy), Olivier Messiaen's Quartet for the End of Time and Francisco Guerrero's Zayin. I attended a performance of the latter work by the Arditti Quartet in Madrid. When I left, I realised that I had not switched off my cell phone, but luckily nobody called me during the concert. I would have killed myself.
I heard this after the clip on orchestral works. So glad you mentioned the Shostakovich Trio No. 2. Though the 8th Symphony has considerable merit as music,. the statement it makes about the war (inasmuch as any music can be a statement) seems more generalized. The trio, I think, is more powerful because it is so personal, prompted by the death of Ivan Sollertinsky, a close and longtime friend of Shostakovich. One of the last things Sollertinsky did before his death at age 41 was to give remarks on the symphony at one of its first performances. His death was related to pre-existing health problems that were exacerbated because of his need to evacuate Leningrad. I had long assumed the Jewish flavor in the finale (so much like the "Dance of the Dead" in "The Dybbuk") had something to do with Sollertinsky himself, but it might actually be more a tribute to his native city, Vitebsk, the site of a ghetto massacre by Nazis in 1941. I've seen little information on how much Shostakovich knew about the Holocaust when the trio was composed (from late 1943), but it's possible he knew a lot more at that point than most people in the US.
You mention the Haydn Piano Trio #40 in f-sharp minor. I had trouble finding it, because in everything I look at it's #26. (In the Peters edition it was apparently #2.) My references are the Beaux Arts Trio set, the New Grove Dictionary of 1980, and the Rosemary Hughes Haydn biography in a Collier paperback (1963). The reference in the Grove has a note to see an entry on Symphony 102, which is how I know they're referring to the same trio that you speak about.
Aren't double numbering systems fun?
Honestly I was just eager to see which Beethoven quartet you included hahahaha. 13 is my favorite so, as we say nowadays, you passed the vibe check Mr Hurwitz. I'd like to add perhaps mozart quartet 15, Caroline Shaw Partita for 8 voices, Prokofiev violin sonata no 1, Brahms clarinet quintet, Dvorak piano quintet, and haydn 7 last words for quartet.
Considering there 1) won't be another talk on this topic and 2) you would have to really dig deep to compile decent list of 10 emotionally draining concertos, I would just like to add the Berg Violin Concerto to this pile of emotional drainage you have presented us with in these last few talks.
That woodwind Bach chorale in the second movement just hits you like a punch to the gut and it's absolutely amazing.
Schubert, Schumann, and Tchaikovsky, among others, considered Beethoven's opus 131 to be the greatest ever piece of chamber music and who am I to disagree? The finale rips my heart out with every listening.
For my own personal list, I would add Donald Tovey’s Piano Quartet and Josef Labor’s Piano Quintet, both in e minor.
Nothing by Brahms? Always thought his Piano Quintet to be very draining. Don't you love / dread those piano competition semi-finals where you get the Brahms and Franck piano quintets (both in F minor) in the same afternoon?
Oh, F Minor! Drainage inc.
In all the commentary I've ever read on the Quintet, I've never seen anyone mention how emotionally intense the minor key middle section of the Adagio is. The string tremolos really take me to the edge.
Do you have a recommendation for the George Crumb? I’ve seen a few but don’t know which to choose. Thanks
Get the version on Bridge, part of the label's complete Crumb edition.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you so much!
Let’s throw in Verklarte Nacht, in its original chamber version. At least as an honorable mention.
I’d have opted for Beethoven’s op.131 instead, but as you say there are a number of good options.
Shostakovich’s 15th quartet is draining, but the two you picked are better pieces.
The Bach d minor partita for violin deserves mention just because of the Chaconne.
I agree about Verklärte Nacht.
Hi Dave! I was inspired this morning by your "bad day" videos with the idea of a related series of videos of composers' works which least reflect their voice or signature...For example, Beethoven's Wellington's Victory has always struck me as drek that he wrote just for the money and very unBeethovenish...In other words, composers just putting notes on a page without their inspiration or personality...Just a suggestion...Thanks!
Well, I love Wellington's Victory, but I see your point.
@@pablov1973 All I said was that I like it. I didn't say it was a masterpiece.
Besides the Brahms clarinet quintet, I’m surprised no one has suggested the Bartók sixth quartet. Also, if you take away the “emotionally” and leave it at just “draining” then the first Schoenberg quartet… to actually try to follow it and understand it for me at least is extremely exhausting.
Surprised no one's mentioned the Ravel Piano Trio - the third movement is just heartbreaking.
I love the Mendelssohn F minor quartet, but I'm not sure I've ever heard anyone milk that slow movement to the utmost. BTW, I have a theory that this quartet was the original model for Mahler's 6th.
I absolutely agree about the ending of the Mozart quintet - the "happiness" is ironic, not sincere. Some performers don't get that, or at least are not able to convey it.
Great lists in all of this series. May be cheating here but I find the Bach Chaconne to be simultaneously draining and exhilarating. I always have to take quiet time after hearing it.
The first piece it springs in my mind is Rachmaninof piano trio n. 1
Shostakovich String Quartet No 10, the Allegretto furioso punches you so hard that it kicks you knock out. Draining and almost lethal. That man had some aggression in himself.
Good for him. Necessary for survival in that historical medium.
Franck's Piano Quintet in F minor should be in this list too.
Yes!! That second movement aahh.
My addition: Berg - Lyric Suite.
Question for Dave: I heartily agree about the Shosty pieces and I'd like to ask about the origin of the amazing "Jewish" theme that they have in common. Is it original, or a traditional tune he appropriated? Thanks in advance.
As far as I know it's original.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thanks. Certainly, one of his most memorable and pregnant themes.
I recall from Artur Rubinstein's glorious memoirs that he wanted those famous bars of the Schubert String Quintet etched on his gravestone.
BTW I'm surprised that Pachelbel's Canon hasn't been nominated - so many cellists burst into tears at the thought of having to play it ... again and again for the rest of their lives.
I think any list of emotionally draining music would not be complete without Galina Ustvolskaya's Grand Duet for piano and cello. When first hearing an Ustvolskaya composition, I can't remember which one, Stravinsky sarcastically stated (a parapharase), that's what the Soviet Union/Iron curtain sounds like! This music is dark and unrelenting......
If someone want to discover Shostakovich, he has to begin from Chamber symphony.
No, not really. There are many options.
Smetana's Piano Trio begins with an agonized theme and finds a sort of consolation, perhaps mixed with bravado, towards the end. My favorite example not on this list.
Really, what is it with F Minor / F sharp Minor? Whenever I see that notation, even for an unknown piece, it is an almost sure pointer I can count on some SAD entertainment, if the oxymoron makes any sense. :)
By "heeding the F Minor", I came across, to give but one example off the "beaten path", Norbert Burgmuller's Piano concerto and Piano sonata, both in the fateful desolate key. Too little known, probably, to be entered into the Top-10 of emotionally draining music, but anyone is well advised to check these works out! Boy do they sound tragic, for such a young man!.. It is as if he saw his fate written in front of him.
Why only a single Concerto and a single Sonata?.. Well, Norbert (to differentiate from his Paris-based bro Friedrich, a friend of Liszt and productive composer of happy "champagne" / operetta style - go figure what was in the genes!) was a child of the Early Romanticism through and through, who died of epylepsia at mere 26. He could have been the next big hope of post-Beethoven German musical establishment. Mendelssohn, for one, called his loss irretrievable for the musical world, and composed a funeral march in the youth's honor. The trivia is very interesting, but the point is, Norbert Burgmuller ought to be considered for the Hall of Fame of F Minor Classics.
Lmao the three chamber works which I listen to a lot are on this list (was the same with the piano one too) I seem to like draining piecrs
And - you seem to like Alkan! Those two go well together.
Most Emotionally Draining Piece of Chamber Music: Franck: Violin Sonata in A major
Really? It's a masterpiece but I'm not sure it fits this bill.
Driving home from work a couple days ago Sirius XM played Smetata's Festive Symphony from the early 1850's and revised in 1881. I like it. (but not necessarily emotionally drained) What do you think of it?
It's festive! Very enjoyable.
No love for the Mahler quartet movement?
Not for this discussion.
@@DavesClassicalGuide But a great theme! If anyone loves Mahler and somehow does not know the "Quartetsatz" (I found such people), must correct that at once.
It was used in the movie Shutter Island, my first exposure to this deep and moving piece.
My list:
Gabriel Faure piano quartet no.2
Jean Hure piano quintet
Nikolai Medtner violin sonata no.2&3
Gabriel Pierne piano quintet
Sergei Taneyev piano quartet & quintet
Louis Vierne violin sonata & piano quintet
Schoenberg Verklarte Nacht
Love all of them! The Huré is a hidden masterwork if there ever was one!