Thank you for all your effort over the past few months, for anyone considering a Heat Pump installation your real world observations and comprehensive Data gathering has been invaluable 👍
I’m just a little bit west of you in Dorset. I had a Vaillant 5kW HP installed in Feb, so March was my first full month. It was a Heatgeek install. I’ve done nothing with Insulation, but had 3 rads upgraded. March figures were 216 kWh for Heating with a COP of 4.4, and 103 kWh for DHW with a COP of 3.1. Not on full WC yet, but will be for next winter. Thermostat is set for 19° 08.00 - 16.00, 20° 16.00-22.00 and set back to 17° overnight. DHW set at 55°, heats once a day at midday to make the most of any Solar. I too have 15mm copper with 10mm microbore dropping down to the rads. My total energy bill for March was 40% lower than the same period last year. Total energy usage in kWh was 60% lower. Similar to your findings, we are benefiting from a consistently warmer and more comfortable house and are so glad we did it.
@@UpsideDownFork thanks I watched it live (It randomly popped up in my feed over lunch) Here's my response comment I posted there: "I was told by the MyEnergi Eddi product manager at the everything electric show that they will be releasing a new variant of the Eddi called the Eddi+ in the coming months to do exactly what you said with firing up the heatpump rather than the immersion when there's lots of excess solar"
Hi mate, Really enjoy your channel. Back in November, when you got your heat pump installed, I ended up chatting with a BG surveyor who inquired if I had microbore pipes and if I was open to replacing them. I mentioned I wasn't keen on shelling out an extra 2-3k since I believed, like Heat Geek and others, that it's possible to successfully install a heat pump with microbore pipes. Lol, they ended up cancelling my appointment, stating they don't do installations with microbore pipes. Just gave them a call this morning to mention that BS managed to install yours and it's working great. They've just rescheduled my survey. Fingers crossed they don't cancel on me again. 😃
My headlines for March are: electric bill £41.52, 1st full month of HP, charging EV, running all house power. But best news is Octopus owe me approximately £15 off this as they have not been accounting for my feed-in (15p per KW about 100KW this month). Compared to last March I paid £76+ on electric, £185+ gas had no EV to charge at this time either. I think I’m better off! I need to access my data for HP, fine tune CoP but hoping can only get better. Downside: HP ruins your personal thermostat, like you other peoples homes feel cold, turned up car heating. House us warm/comfortable ALL the time despite costing alot less to achieve.
Great video, our house is 1989 and am thinking about switching to a heat pump even though our boiler isn't that old, gutted the BUS grant wasn't about when we had the boiler changed! We have microbore too and looks to be like yours where it drops down off of a larger pipe. Have been adding larger, fancier rads as we've been doing the house up so just hope they will be fine when we do make the switch 🤞 Have decided to go solar PV & battery first as we use far more elec than gas which I hope will be in the next month or so! The deniers/sceptics will always moan. Doesn't matter how much you show them the costs/data that something works, be that PV, ASHP, EV's etc. they will always claim to know more that those presenting the information. Keep up the good work for those of us with an open mind!!
Can't wait for a bit of nerding out tomorrow morning when this video is released! I have to say that I really look forward to your videos. I really like the format where you release a new video on the Saturday morning and review the comments during the week. Your asking ALL the same questions that I've asked about heat pumps, but unfortunately I still don't have one as the installers in Ireland are sh1te and the HP manufacturers aren't much better, lacking Vaillant, Ebac, or any of the decent UK brands. Keep up the great work!
newarkcylinders.co.uk/products/hg-series-cylinders/ That's where I would start. There are also some cheaper cylinders that perform better than Vailant's own because they have a larger coil surface area. Good luck!
excellent video. In summary i have done a similar install. Bigger heat pump installed about the same time. My house is nice and warm plus the cost is about 1/3-1/2 of what the gas was the year before. I had similar cost savings last winter
It did come with a British Gas homecare bundle which covers the heat pump for 5 years and the rest of the system for the first year. No service plan besides that.
I have a Daikin MXL 18,000 BTU enhanced capacity inverter driven compressor system in Canada. It is a cold climate heat pump. It works extremely well, maintaining 22 C down to -12 C outside on a 1,100 square feet home.
Thanks for your videos! They are really helpful, I have got a Vaillant 7kW heatpump installed last friday with the setup exactly as yours (45L buffer). I am trying to figure out how to get the OEM Level 3 monitoring setup. I have seen a couple of videos about it but was wondering if you have some advise on how you setup yours. Is it something I can do myself, though by the looks of it, it seems as if help from a plumber+electrician would be advisable. Thoughts?
Thanks for your comment. I've replied in this video: th-cam.com/video/u6J-Ba-6-jI/w-d-xo.html In essence, I have the Vaillant gateway that gives me access to their sensors and reports.
@@UpsideDownFork Thanks, I also have the Vaillant gateway installed. I can see the COP and energy used and heat generated on the myVaillant app but not sure how you come up with the nice graphs with flow/return temperature, indoor/outdoor temperature, electricity used and heat generated. Any advise on how to get those setup? Thanks again!
@@nikunjsingh78 Ah, I see. You need the ebus adapter for that so it can send to emoncms which will talk to heatpumpmonitor.org. See more here: community.openenergymonitor.org/t/ebus-hardware-adapter-and-ebusd-software-thread/24176
Great review, many thanks It’s very difficult to compare between the last two winters because December 22 was brutally cold. So cold that my Mondeo gave in for the first time ever, and my Zoe range was reduced to 90 miles from a usual 125 winter range. That was the headline anyway, I can’t remember the rest of the winter, but comparing against this winter which must be one of the warmest on record isn’t a good comparison One more thought, does humidity affect CoP? Logically I would have thought it does. If so is this something you could integrate into your figures for next winter? I finally have a survey date from Octopus for my heat pump installation, six months after placing the deposit! 🤞🏼they honour the desktop quote and I can reach my own net zero
You can look up how much a new one would be (somewhere like Screwfix) but they're pretty cheap. There's such a range of sizes that I think you'd be unlikely to find anyone looking for a second hand radiator.
@@robinbennett5994it depends! We changed a few and the standard ones were slow to sell and didn’t make much (£10-20 each) but we had some ‘designer’ ones (which were hopeless from a heat output point of view) which people practically queued up for and made reasonable prices.
Superb content yet again 👍 I’d be interested to know which HP you think is better than the Vailent,I watch EV man and he has the same unit as you and tends to know what he’s talking about so they must be pretty decent I’m guessing?
Thanks for your comment. I've replied in this video: th-cam.com/video/u6J-Ba-6-jI/w-d-xo.html The conservatory roof replacement knocked off 1800W from our whole house heat loss. The loft insulation improvement reduced the heat loss by 250W. The two combined knocked off just over 2kW
Thanks for the detailed info unless I missed it I do not think you mentioned how much your installation cost which would be handy to know. I just saw let’s go electric ( you tuber) who after the £7500 grant only paid £500 if this was typical it would be a no brainier. I am with Octopus and would like Solar Battery and a heat pump but Octopus do not do installations in my area (Taunton Somerset).I filled in an application to British Gas who I understand pass on enquiries to independent installers.So far out of all of the companies that have reached out to me none of them do heat pumps.I would prefer to deal with just one company can anyone recommend anyone that does all three in my area. Thanks Mike
My installation was closer to £4000 after the grant for several reasons. I had no radiators or pipework in some areas of the building which needed some quite substantial work. I opted to upgrade from the cheaper Daikin to the more expensive Vaillant unit also. Still very happy with the value for money that we got.
I don’t have the money for solar so it would be difficult for me to guess what my savings would be , still enjoyed the video though very detailed, thanks.
Regarding dhw. I don't understand how it does not last until the morning. It should not lose more than a few deg in 18h? I would think with all your solar I would think a little loss in efficency and running the dhw a few degrees hotter? Would be better financially and emmisions stand point. Also cop might be tiny bit better in a warm afternoon?
@@cancerman3954 I wish we could! We have young children who bath. We do have an Aqualisa Q shower which has a digital thermostatic controller and memory settings, so we choose the program which sets the temperature at 38 degrees for example and displays a countdown timer of 7 minutes. Once the timer reaches zero, it cuts off the water. However annoying it is, it's saved us a lot of hot water.
A 24 year old boiler starting from an efficiency of 60% would be way down to around 30-40% efficiency, a new condensing combi starting @93% efficiency would have saved 60-70% of the 1.7 tons of carbon stated for atleast a tenth to twentieth of the equipment price of heat pump. I fitted 2 stoves and a biomass/pellet stove 20 years ago & still going strong. Not used any gas for last 2 years after Putins antics, spend around £450 on briquettes/pellets per year- zone use to hall pellet stove in morning & lounge afternoon to evening 24-27degree comfort most of day where it's needed i.e where we are located. I would have serious doubt about the number of skilled heat pumps engineers available for any repairs & can see a lot of these failing before 10 year time frame due to relatively simple issues
@@UpsideDownFork . Thanks , watched most of your latest upload. My boiler uses between 7200 and 7700 kWh per year according to Octopus- last years was definitely 7200 as I added up all my bills for the year. My previous, smaller house 1997 was definitely colder than my present one - no cavity or underfloor insulation in the old one. 2003 House is occupied all day so thermostat 18C 6-9am . 20C 12-1. 19C 5.30-10pm. Thermostat also has set back temps so never goes below 17c during the day. If anyone complained of being cold we turned it up to about 20c. I do find anything above 12C outside and the heating doesn’t click on.
Just checked and my gas boiler is 75.4 efficienct from new, even with those figures and a cop of 4.1 it would save £175 odd per year. Assuming my boiler was actually hitting that efficiency which is unlikely.
Did you cost your solar electric as free? If so that's wrong as it should be costed at your best available export rate, consumed solar now has a cost. It does of course depend on what export tariff's you have available depending on your import tariff. PS. Our gas bill for 2023 was £787, for a five bedroom detached house, so not to dissimilar to your yearly gas cost with the boiler. As you may remember more solar, and then an ASHP are my plans.
This is true. But once done it's not a repeating cost. Like with combi boiler, a replacement is quite cheap but the inital instal of a combi central heating system is expensive. Also if your motivation is reducing emissions its a bargain compared to an ev. Unless you are comuting a huge amount.
@angiej4865 agreed. We did it on the 5k grant. But in the end the grants are small fry compared to the staggering fines we face if the UK fails to meet net zero targets set out in the Paris agreement. The fines would be a spectacular waste of tax. Spend it fixing the problems.....
@stuartburns8657 true again. Mass environmental migration or catastrophic uk flooding or drought of our once green and present land might motivate a few. With a bit of luck not too little to late. Hopefully gas will stop being subsidised too.
Interesting you sharing this, but you'd gone from pretty much the worse gas boiler with modest insulation to top tech HP with good loft insulation. Its kind of like the EVangalists who go from a £40k 30mpg performance car, to an EV, and then proclaim EV's will save everyone money! We're in a 4 bed detached, 1997 built cavity wall house. I did the loft leg / 300mm non compressed insulation topup in October. Still on a boiler, and our shower is a mixer, so boiler feed. 2 adults and 2 late teenage girls. 2023 gas bill (Octopus) was £495. Each person's circumstances are different, but with our microbore piping (not necessarily a show stopper) ripping out the majority or radiators on top of a HP. Payback would be 10+ years I suspect. This granted doesn't take into account our PV and battery setup, but I see the HP was robbing Peter to pay Paul energy usage wise?
Very true, replacing the boiler with a more efficient boiler and doing the radiators would mean as much lower flow temperature which work have reduced his gas cost massively. I doubt the efficiency figures for the old boiler as I have a potterton and that according to the data sheet is 80% efficient. He is claiming 60% for his old boiler when new and that the old boiler has a sticky valve which should have been picked up on a service because of it was leaking gas that could have been explosive or Britsh Gas were bullshitting him (not uncommon with British Gas) I’m not anti heatpumps but there is a slightly fanatical tilt to EV and heat pump enthusiasts to the point where they exclude some of the cost to justify their position. Likewise the anti heatpump brigade do state a lot of worst case scenarios and fear mongering. There is a happy medium which I think this chap has achieved too a degree.
Surely any improvement that improves savings and reduces CO2 is an improvement? By your own admission you've invested in your house and reduced your output so I don't see it being any different to EV owners or people who choose HPs. EV's do save money, on the right set up. My electricity bill has gone up significantly since I started driving an EV, but Peter(electricity) is cheaper than Paul (petrol), so I come out on top. Even compared to a 52 mpg petrol car I'm paying about a 1/7th of the price in fuel.
@@B0jangle5 That's good mpg to have been moving from. We avg 55mpg for both our diesels. As you (and I) say, its a personal calculation. Wifie 100% wfh, and its only the youngest child school run mileage which will end in 70 days when she finishes secondary school. I work 3.5 miles away, so 140 miles a month, or about 1500 pa when you factor in leave etc. The closest EV in terms of matching our main car (Nissan Qashqai) is the MGZS EV. At least closest in terms of what I'm willing to pay, not able to mind! Despite a driveway and a time of day tariff, it makes no (negative) financial sense for us to swap. Putting aside they're fully paid off and in good condition, when I was paying the £216pm loan, I obviously can't get close to those rates now. Insurance would go up £214 pa, and in 2025 I'll be paying VED. Bear in mind the Nissan is £20 VED and ulez free! Oh, and £500-750 for the charger install. Its both more financially beneficial and ecologically responsible to hang on and sweat what we have. The panacea IS saving money and the planet, but the 99% will only be willing to do the latter if the former condition is met
I moved from a 21mpg 5l v8 to a model 3 performance. Still have the performance, but obviously my costs have fallen through the floor. His gas costs are similar to mine, and I have a 20 yr old Gloworm 40ff. Debating what to do when it eventually stops working.
@@stuartburns8657 Good points, my personal reasons were more due to the lease contract I was on ending so it was beneficial to swap cars. My motivation was largely driven by reducing the amount I gave to oil and gas companies, but by the time I'd started test driving them I was hooked so I would have been happy even if it worked out slightly more.
I know you like to quote the Co2 saved figures but for the majority of people this is irrelevant and it’s about saving money against a gas/oil boiler. It’s a shame that every install is individual to each house. Also the people I speak to can’t get their heads around the fact that you have to run an air source heat pump 24/7 through the winter months to make the savings.
For some (like me) it's massively relevant (and cost saving is almost as important but a good bonus). For others, env benefits are a bonus, and for those that really don't give 2 shoots about the env, then at least they're saving a bit of money and normally having a warmer house (as long as it's been setup and run properly).
£59 for the month/? Sorry is this April fool? Or have you installed the heating in a dolls house. That would be every 2-3 days for me. You must be running it at 16 degrees.
What heating method do you have? If it's a heat pump it might be that it's massively cycling causing huge power draw. That could be down to a number of factors but usually poor system design and unit oversizing are the most common.
I have a similar setup to UpsideDownFork’s and we used 334 kWh for heating alone (heating my 3 bed detached house to 21 C). At price cap rate that would be around £81 for the month. But, you can get much better rates than that so the figure he quoted is correct.
You have a pathway to neutralise your energy bills with solar/battery/HP - and make profit - which is not possible sticking to endless gas bills/maintenance.
@@Lawrence7of9 disagree; unless you’re exploiting cheap overnight energy prices. The rest, when including time variations of capital your argument is plan false. Test comes from someone who has solar and batteries
Thank you for all your effort over the past few months, for anyone considering a Heat Pump installation your real world observations and comprehensive Data gathering has been invaluable 👍
Thanks for your comment. I've replied in this video: th-cam.com/video/u6J-Ba-6-jI/w-d-xo.html
I’m just a little bit west of you in Dorset. I had a Vaillant 5kW HP installed in Feb, so March was my first full month. It was a Heatgeek install. I’ve done nothing with Insulation, but had 3 rads upgraded.
March figures were 216 kWh for Heating with a COP of 4.4, and 103 kWh for DHW with a COP of 3.1. Not on full WC yet, but will be for next winter. Thermostat is set for 19° 08.00 - 16.00, 20° 16.00-22.00 and set back to 17° overnight. DHW set at 55°, heats once a day at midday to make the most of any Solar.
I too have 15mm copper with 10mm microbore dropping down to the rads.
My total energy bill for March was 40% lower than the same period last year. Total energy usage in kWh was 60% lower.
Similar to your findings, we are benefiting from a consistently warmer and more comfortable house and are so glad we did it.
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I'd be interested in how you can use home assistant to improve things, but that's definitely the nerd in me 🤓
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@@UpsideDownFork thanks I watched it live (It randomly popped up in my feed over lunch)
Here's my response comment I posted there:
"I was told by the MyEnergi Eddi product manager at the everything electric show that they will be releasing a new variant of the Eddi called the Eddi+ in the coming months to do exactly what you said with firing up the heatpump rather than the immersion when there's lots of excess solar"
Your videos have been very useful. Thanks for taking the time to share your research and experiences.
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Hi mate, Really enjoy your channel. Back in November, when you got your heat pump installed, I ended up chatting with a BG surveyor who inquired if I had microbore pipes and if I was open to replacing them. I mentioned I wasn't keen on shelling out an extra 2-3k since I believed, like Heat Geek and others, that it's possible to successfully install a heat pump with microbore pipes. Lol, they ended up cancelling my appointment, stating they don't do installations with microbore pipes. Just gave them a call this morning to mention that BS managed to install yours and it's working great. They've just rescheduled my survey. Fingers crossed they don't cancel on me again. 😃
Good luck 👍
My headlines for March are: electric bill £41.52, 1st full month of HP, charging EV, running all house power. But best news is Octopus owe me approximately £15 off this as they have not been accounting for my feed-in (15p per KW about 100KW this month). Compared to last March I paid £76+ on electric, £185+ gas had no EV to charge at this time either. I think I’m better off! I need to access my data for HP, fine tune CoP but hoping can only get better.
Downside: HP ruins your personal thermostat, like you other peoples homes feel cold, turned up car heating. House us warm/comfortable ALL the time despite costing alot less to achieve.
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Great video, our house is 1989 and am thinking about switching to a heat pump even though our boiler isn't that old, gutted the BUS grant wasn't about when we had the boiler changed! We have microbore too and looks to be like yours where it drops down off of a larger pipe. Have been adding larger, fancier rads as we've been doing the house up so just hope they will be fine when we do make the switch 🤞 Have decided to go solar PV & battery first as we use far more elec than gas which I hope will be in the next month or so!
The deniers/sceptics will always moan. Doesn't matter how much you show them the costs/data that something works, be that PV, ASHP, EV's etc. they will always claim to know more that those presenting the information. Keep up the good work for those of us with an open mind!!
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Can't wait for a bit of nerding out tomorrow morning when this video is released! I have to say that I really look forward to your videos. I really like the format where you release a new video on the Saturday morning and review the comments during the week. Your asking ALL the same questions that I've asked about heat pumps, but unfortunately I still don't have one as the installers in Ireland are sh1te and the HP manufacturers aren't much better, lacking Vaillant, Ebac, or any of the decent UK brands. Keep up the great work!
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Sorry if I've missed it, but what room temperature(s) do you aim for?
@@wag-on 20-21 throughout the day.
Which hot water tank would you recommend? You mentioned a few times there are much better ones out there
newarkcylinders.co.uk/products/hg-series-cylinders/
That's where I would start.
There are also some cheaper cylinders that perform better than Vailant's own because they have a larger coil surface area.
Good luck!
@@UpsideDownFork thank you so much!
excellent video. In summary i have done a similar install. Bigger heat pump installed about the same time. My house is nice and warm plus the cost is about 1/3-1/2 of what the gas was the year before. I had similar cost savings last winter
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Excellent. Do you have a maintenance contract or service plan on your heat pump?
It did come with a British Gas homecare bundle which covers the heat pump for 5 years and the rest of the system for the first year.
No service plan besides that.
I have a Daikin MXL 18,000 BTU enhanced capacity inverter driven compressor system in Canada. It is a cold climate heat pump. It works extremely well, maintaining 22 C down to -12 C outside on a 1,100 square feet home.
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Thanks for your videos! They are really helpful, I have got a Vaillant 7kW heatpump installed last friday with the setup exactly as yours (45L buffer). I am trying to figure out how to get the OEM Level 3 monitoring setup. I have seen a couple of videos about it but was wondering if you have some advise on how you setup yours. Is it something I can do myself, though by the looks of it, it seems as if help from a plumber+electrician would be advisable. Thoughts?
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In essence, I have the Vaillant gateway that gives me access to their sensors and reports.
@@UpsideDownFork Thanks, I also have the Vaillant gateway installed. I can see the COP and energy used and heat generated on the myVaillant app but not sure how you come up with the nice graphs with flow/return temperature, indoor/outdoor temperature, electricity used and heat generated. Any advise on how to get those setup? Thanks again!
@@nikunjsingh78 Ah, I see. You need the ebus adapter for that so it can send to emoncms which will talk to heatpumpmonitor.org.
See more here: community.openenergymonitor.org/t/ebus-hardware-adapter-and-ebusd-software-thread/24176
How much would an electric comet boiler cost in comparison? 14.4 kw
Great review, many thanks
It’s very difficult to compare between the last two winters because December 22 was brutally cold. So cold that my Mondeo gave in for the first time ever, and my Zoe range was reduced to 90 miles from a usual 125 winter range. That was the headline anyway, I can’t remember the rest of the winter, but comparing against this winter which must be one of the warmest on record isn’t a good comparison
One more thought, does humidity affect CoP? Logically I would have thought it does. If so is this something you could integrate into your figures for next winter?
I finally have a survey date from Octopus for my heat pump installation, six months after placing the deposit! 🤞🏼they honour the desktop quote and I can reach my own net zero
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Great video. Really interesting and showing that this tech is for everyone in every type of house.
Thank you for the comment!
Did you sell your old radiators? I've got a couple old ones and wondering whether they'd get anything on marketplace?
You can look up how much a new one would be (somewhere like Screwfix) but they're pretty cheap. There's such a range of sizes that I think you'd be unlikely to find anyone looking for a second hand radiator.
@@robinbennett5994it depends! We changed a few and the standard ones were slow to sell and didn’t make much (£10-20 each) but we had some ‘designer’ ones (which were hopeless from a heat output point of view) which people practically queued up for and made reasonable prices.
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Superb content yet again 👍 I’d be interested to know which HP you think is better than the Vailent,I watch EV man and he has the same unit as you and tends to know what he’s talking about so they must be pretty decent I’m guessing?
It was the hot water tank he said that could be better, if that's what you're referring to. Be interesting to know which tank of course.
Thanks for pointing out 😂
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How do u think the attic insulation improved your heat loss?.
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The conservatory roof replacement knocked off 1800W from our whole house heat loss.
The loft insulation improvement reduced the heat loss by 250W.
The two combined knocked off just over 2kW
What are the annual service costs of you HP if you were to call the Mfr out?
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Thanks for the detailed info unless I missed it I do not think you mentioned how much your installation cost which would be handy to know.
I just saw let’s go electric ( you tuber) who after the £7500 grant only paid £500 if this was typical it would be a no brainier.
I am with Octopus and would like Solar Battery and a heat pump but Octopus do not do installations in my area (Taunton Somerset).I filled in an application to British Gas who I understand pass on enquiries to independent installers.So far out of all of the companies that have reached out to me none of them do heat pumps.I would prefer to deal with just one company can anyone recommend
anyone that does all three in my area.
Thanks
Mike
My installation was closer to £4000 after the grant for several reasons. I had no radiators or pipework in some areas of the building which needed some quite substantial work. I opted to upgrade from the cheaper Daikin to the more expensive Vaillant unit also.
Still very happy with the value for money that we got.
Can you share your spreadsheet? I would like to do the same on my system
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Send me an e-mail to upsidedownfork@outlook.com
@@UpsideDownFork Thanks, I have sent you an email
Do you have batteries?
@@trailblazer7108 nope
I don’t have the money for solar so it would be difficult for me to guess what my savings would be , still enjoyed the video though very detailed, thanks.
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Regarding dhw. I don't understand how it does not last until the morning. It should not lose more than a few deg in 18h? I would think with all your solar I would think a little loss in efficency and running the dhw a few degrees hotter? Would be better financially and emmisions stand point. Also cop might be tiny bit better in a warm afternoon?
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How do you manage 5 showers from 1 tank???
@@cancerman3954 I wish we could! We have young children who bath. We do have an Aqualisa Q shower which has a digital thermostatic controller and memory settings, so we choose the program which sets the temperature at 38 degrees for example and displays a countdown timer of 7 minutes. Once the timer reaches zero, it cuts off the water.
However annoying it is, it's saved us a lot of hot water.
A 24 year old boiler starting from an efficiency of 60% would be way down to around 30-40% efficiency, a new condensing combi starting @93% efficiency would have saved 60-70% of the 1.7 tons of carbon stated for atleast a tenth to twentieth of the equipment price of heat pump. I fitted 2 stoves and a biomass/pellet stove 20 years ago & still going strong. Not used any gas for last 2 years after Putins antics, spend around £450 on briquettes/pellets per year- zone use to hall pellet stove in morning & lounge afternoon to evening 24-27degree comfort most of day where it's needed i.e where we are located. I would have serious doubt about the number of skilled heat pumps engineers available for any repairs & can see a lot of these failing before 10 year time frame due to relatively simple issues
That's not how boiler efficiency works I'm afraid.
Your gas estimate was way above mine, similar sized house but no conservatory. 2003 year build house, 8 year old WB combi, set at 53C.
Same. 4 bed detached (small though) 1997 mixer shower.
2023 £495 (excluding standing charge I just realised)
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@@UpsideDownFork . Thanks , watched most of your latest upload. My boiler uses between 7200 and 7700 kWh per year according to Octopus- last years was definitely 7200 as I added up all my bills for the year. My previous, smaller house 1997 was definitely colder than my present one - no cavity or underfloor insulation in the old one. 2003 House is occupied all day so thermostat 18C 6-9am . 20C 12-1. 19C 5.30-10pm. Thermostat also has set back temps so never goes below 17c during the day. If anyone complained of being cold we turned it up to about 20c. I do find anything above 12C outside and the heating doesn’t click on.
@@bordersw1239 Sounds good! Please tell me you have an old Mercedes W123.
@@UpsideDownFork . Oh, I wish!
Just checked and my gas boiler is 75.4 efficienct from new, even with those figures and a cop of 4.1 it would save £175 odd per year. Assuming my boiler was actually hitting that efficiency which is unlikely.
Scop even
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Did you cost your solar electric as free? If so that's wrong as it should be costed at your best available export rate, consumed solar now has a cost. It does of course depend on what export tariff's you have available depending on your import tariff. PS. Our gas bill for 2023 was £787, for a five bedroom detached house, so not to dissimilar to your yearly gas cost with the boiler. As you may remember more solar, and then an ASHP are my plans.
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The issue with heat pumps are the installation costs...
This is true. But once done it's not a repeating cost. Like with combi boiler, a replacement is quite cheap but the inital instal of a combi central heating system is expensive. Also if your motivation is reducing emissions its a bargain compared to an ev. Unless you are comuting a huge amount.
I wouldn't be considering it if it wasn't for the £7500 government grant.
@angiej4865 agreed. We did it on the 5k grant. But in the end the grants are small fry compared to the staggering fines we face if the UK fails to meet net zero targets set out in the Paris agreement. The fines would be a spectacular waste of tax. Spend it fixing the problems.....
Our 2023 gas costs where £495.
Sadly the vast majority of ppl will be motivated by financial savings, not Co2 savings
@stuartburns8657 true again. Mass environmental migration or catastrophic uk flooding or drought of our once green and present land might motivate a few. With a bit of luck not too little to late. Hopefully gas will stop being subsidised too.
Interesting you sharing this, but you'd gone from pretty much the worse gas boiler with modest insulation to top tech HP with good loft insulation.
Its kind of like the EVangalists who go from a £40k 30mpg performance car, to an EV, and then proclaim EV's will save everyone money!
We're in a 4 bed detached, 1997 built cavity wall house. I did the loft leg / 300mm non compressed insulation topup in October.
Still on a boiler, and our shower is a mixer, so boiler feed. 2 adults and 2 late teenage girls.
2023 gas bill (Octopus) was £495.
Each person's circumstances are different, but with our microbore piping (not necessarily a show stopper) ripping out the majority or radiators on top of a HP. Payback would be 10+ years I suspect.
This granted doesn't take into account our PV and battery setup, but I see the HP was robbing Peter to pay Paul energy usage wise?
Very true, replacing the boiler with a more efficient boiler and doing the radiators would mean as much lower flow temperature which work have reduced his gas cost massively.
I doubt the efficiency figures for the old boiler as I have a potterton and that according to the data sheet is 80% efficient. He is claiming 60% for his old boiler when new and that the old boiler has a sticky valve which should have been picked up on a service because of it was leaking gas that could have been explosive or Britsh Gas were bullshitting him (not uncommon with British Gas)
I’m not anti heatpumps but there is a slightly fanatical tilt to EV and heat pump enthusiasts to the point where they exclude some of the cost to justify their position. Likewise the anti heatpump brigade do state a lot of worst case scenarios and fear mongering. There is a happy medium which I think this chap has achieved too a degree.
Surely any improvement that improves savings and reduces CO2 is an improvement? By your own admission you've invested in your house and reduced your output so I don't see it being any different to EV owners or people who choose HPs.
EV's do save money, on the right set up. My electricity bill has gone up significantly since I started driving an EV, but Peter(electricity) is cheaper than Paul (petrol), so I come out on top. Even compared to a 52 mpg petrol car I'm paying about a 1/7th of the price in fuel.
@@B0jangle5 That's good mpg to have been moving from.
We avg 55mpg for both our diesels.
As you (and I) say, its a personal calculation.
Wifie 100% wfh, and its only the youngest child school run mileage which will end in 70 days when she finishes secondary school.
I work 3.5 miles away, so 140 miles a month, or about 1500 pa when you factor in leave etc.
The closest EV in terms of matching our main car (Nissan Qashqai) is the MGZS EV.
At least closest in terms of what I'm willing to pay, not able to mind!
Despite a driveway and a time of day tariff, it makes no (negative) financial sense for us to swap.
Putting aside they're fully paid off and in good condition, when I was paying the £216pm loan, I obviously can't get close to those rates now. Insurance would go up £214 pa, and in 2025 I'll be paying VED.
Bear in mind the Nissan is £20 VED and ulez free!
Oh, and £500-750 for the charger install.
Its both more financially beneficial and ecologically responsible to hang on and sweat what we have.
The panacea IS saving money and the planet, but the 99% will only be willing to do the latter if the former condition is met
I moved from a 21mpg 5l v8 to a model 3 performance. Still have the performance, but obviously my costs have fallen through the floor.
His gas costs are similar to mine, and I have a 20 yr old Gloworm 40ff. Debating what to do when it eventually stops working.
@@stuartburns8657 Good points, my personal reasons were more due to the lease contract I was on ending so it was beneficial to swap cars. My motivation was largely driven by reducing the amount I gave to oil and gas companies, but by the time I'd started test driving them I was hooked so I would have been happy even if it worked out slightly more.
I know you like to quote the Co2 saved figures but for the majority of people this is irrelevant and it’s about saving money against a gas/oil boiler. It’s a shame that every install is individual to each house. Also the people I speak to can’t get their heads around the fact that you have to run an air source heat pump 24/7 through the winter months to make the savings.
For quite a lot of people looking at HP in 2024 it is relevant
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For some (like me) it's massively relevant (and cost saving is almost as important but a good bonus). For others, env benefits are a bonus, and for those that really don't give 2 shoots about the env, then at least they're saving a bit of money and normally having a warmer house (as long as it's been setup and run properly).
£59 for the month/? Sorry is this April fool? Or have you installed the heating in a dolls house. That would be every 2-3 days for me. You must be running it at 16 degrees.
What heating method do you have? If it's a heat pump it might be that it's massively cycling causing huge power draw. That could be down to a number of factors but usually poor system design and unit oversizing are the most common.
I have a similar setup to UpsideDownFork’s and we used 334 kWh for heating alone (heating my 3 bed detached house to 21 C). At price cap rate that would be around £81 for the month. But, you can get much better rates than that so the figure he quoted is correct.
Ours was £62 (Octopus Tracker) 4 bed house. Temp set at 19 night 20 for the day and 22 in the evening.
You must have made a mistake or living in a castle as you're spending £590 a month on heating and hot water?
You might want to try heating your home with the windows shut, you must be getting through 100's kWh a day
Given the savings v installation of the heat pump and solar, it's not worth it.
Depends what you mean by “worth”
Worth it to the planet and your grand kids ????
@@chriss4949 given there are disposal issues I’m not sure what you mean by planet or grandkids. I’m planting trees, so..
You have a pathway to neutralise your energy bills with solar/battery/HP - and make profit - which is not possible sticking to endless gas bills/maintenance.
@@Lawrence7of9 disagree; unless you’re exploiting cheap overnight energy prices. The rest, when including time variations of capital your argument is plan false. Test comes from someone who has solar and batteries
@@AEG_UK2020so why exactly are you here then? I don't get people who spend their time watching videos on things they don't want/like.
test
Testing what? Your keyboard is working.