"My game, my rules and my table" - absoutely correct; and no one has the right to say you can't do that or to criticise you (or anyone else) for engaging in a hobby that you enjoy and which harms no one. I found this video while searching for painting tips for WotR figures as I'm starting to build a retinue for Never Mind the Billhooks; and I've just subscribed after watching. Thanks for sharing an interesting and informative insight into why you enjoy this hobby. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Really appreciate you taking the time to comment and glad you enjoyed the video. Absolutely, I'll play the way that makes the most sense and seems the most fun 👍
Absolutely loved this video and sat rivetted to it... and I realy like your level headed attitude to your hobby (I have absolutely zero time for the curent trend of kill joys within the hobby). Been a gamer all my life (with a passionate love for solo as well). I guess over the last 45 years or so, I`ve gathered a pretty eclectic range of interests (and models for them all), from Samarai, Ancients, Medieval, Fantasy, Lord of the Rings (even Xena and Conan), Napoleonics (including Scxarlet Pimpernel narratie play), Alemo, War of Independance and French Indian War, ACW, D&D, WWI and WWII, Sci-fi, Star Wars, Wild West, and many many more... so yeah, I really do enjoy my hobby, and am amazingly fortunate to have a wonderful wife who shares the hobby right alongside with me. I`m not a fussy modeler/painter and often chuckle to myself and think... the ol`fellas like me who come from a golden, almost pioneering age of gaming... do their models get sneered at when they cart them along to the clubs to play with and shand UP against the modern trend of `perfection ` painting and (practically) pro standard. Are their "Wargame standard" laughed out of the club, or do their models look out of place? That`s one of the joys of solo... I only have to please myself and have noone to tell me whats wrogn or right hehe.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Really pleased you enjoyed the video and thanks for sharing your story. There have been some great hobby journeys in the comments here 👍😁
As someone who started wargaming in 1971, I am so glad to see the hobby carrying on to the next generation. Also: Nice to see your face (I had been seeing your wife's face on screen during your Napoleonic videos, but only heard your voice). You are absolutely right to want to leave the units on the board as long as possible (and not remove casualties). I enjoy Napoleonics, and look forward to more of your Black Powder videos.
Fantastic video Martin, my journey into historic wargaming was similar to yours, but started ten years earlier 😂 I play historic, scifi and fantasy games now. I enjoy the research when i get into a new historic period. And through gaming over many years i have made some fantastic friends and met many interesting folk who share a passion for the hobby.
Cheers mate, sounds like the best of all outcomes 👍 there are fantastic people in the hobby and I've made loads of mates I would never had the chance to without it 🙂
Well said. I used to play Warhammer Fantasy in the 90s and early 2000's (4th and 5th, little bit of 6th). I've recently got into historical wargaming after years of reading about history and it's so much fun. There is a great club with a great bunch of lads. No one takes the history too seriously, it's all just fun and everyone has a real passion for history.
Nicely put. All wargaming is deeply personal. I enjoy reading about the history of different ages, both social and military, and wargaming is a good way to mix that with my joy of building and painting models.
Great vid, so true, I actually don't play much historical, I am still addicted to warhammer. But the video you reference made me pull my hair out, when I do play historical with a friend of mine we just play who we want! (the same as you do with warhammer!) Commenting as my Grandfather was also at Arnhem; captured, survived.
Really interesting and in-depth video about your personal journey into historical wargaming. Also I love how you went into detail about the transition from Warhammer/sci-fi to historical, which resonates with me a lot as I'm currently switching over from WH 40K to more historical games too. After seeing the other videos you mentioned online, this is by far the most mature and interesting take on why you/we play historical wargames. Thank you for your great content as always!
Cracking video that manages to stay positive throughout! I perfect not a response to that video from those who will not be named but also an excellent general video on historical wargaming and how there can be something for anyone!
Really pleased you like it, wanted to stay positive throughout as that's why I enjoy the hobby, if it becomes to down or negative then what's the point .. then it's like work 😅
Thanks Martin - really interesting. Each time I contemplate the navel of my own wargaming I keep coming back to my fascination with the splendour and variety of Napoleonic uniforms, en masse!
I like looking at the channels of people that comment on GOOD wargaming videos like yours. That’s where I seem to find the best content to watch. The comments section of your videos are a gathering of people that have been making my hobby life better for more than a decade. Thank you for sharing your hobby life with us, I will watch and rewatch until we’re all dead.
A great video that articulates superbly what I believe a lot of people in this hobby are thinking. You have set out perfectly why this is a hobby like no other, and brings joy to so many of us. I can only speak for myself, but the recent video by a prominent TH-camr that has set off all this discussion has annoyed many people on the historical wargaming side of this hobby. What I found most annoying is that it was just a lazy take on historical wargaming. No attempt was made to try and understand an aspect of miniature wargaming that midwinter minis was unfamiliar with. Instead, it went straight to, I don't understand it, so it must be bad, and those that disagree with me must be bad people.That is a poor way to approach any debate. What you have done, I think, is a brilliant video setting out why historical wargaming is a focus for good and why so many of us have devoted so much of our spare time to this amazing hobby.
Really enjoyed the video! For me the research of particular conflict is a big part why I love historical wargaming... the tactics, uniforms, weapons, battles, interesting characters. That said, my mind still wanders from time to time into some grimdark places, which mostly aren't related to GW (Turnip28, Planet 28, etc.). I know that this video was probably a consequence of an inner response to a particular video, and I do hope that many of folks that live in a GW bubble will see it, as I do consider it a nice introduction to historical wargaming for anyone with the slightest interest. BTW, I think rules/systems from Daniel Mersey could also serve as a nice intro level primers.
Great video. Another inexpensive way of trying historical games is smaller scales, for example 10mm. Manufacturers like Lancer and Pendraken sell a complete army pack. Buy one without a distinctive uniform so any era before 1650, divide it between two friends, paint it, play.
Great video Martin. I started with D and D then moved into Airfix Napoleonic wargaming having been given the book "the Wargame" by Donald Featherstone. I then , like you , kind of drifted away while at University but came back through GW and Warhammer which I played for many years till they pulled the plug on it. I then got into Infinity and Saga and Bolt action. Like you I studied History and love the research side of the hobby. I too would recommend Saga as a good entry point game. Dead man's hand is a fantastic system and there's a new game "what a Cowboy" just come out that I'm keen to try. Thanks for all your hard work putting out such excellent content. See you at Crackcon!
Thanks buddy glad you enjoyed it 👍 I had to leave TTRPGs out of the video otherwise it would have been 3 hours long, I can go on and on about campaigns, house rules and minis for them for ages 😅
Thanks very much. Being positive is the best way to get people to try new things. Plenty of Hail Caesar and Saga here on the channel, hope you enjoy looking into it 👍 give me a shout if I can help at all
Fantastic video Martin, totally agree with everything you said. Another reason I like historical gaming is for the what ifs of history, and trying to change the outcome of a certain period or battle on the tabletop. I also love doing the research into what ever army or period I’m doing
Nicely done mate. I am biased but I’d add to the games to try list with Sharp Practice. One box of Perry Minis or Warlord figures, and you have all the troops you need
As someone who was first introduced to Historical Wargaming at the age of 4 (English Civil War, Ancient, Napoleonic as well as WW1 and WW2), I'm 51 now. I started out using the Rules my Dad used in the 70's moved on to 40k and GW games, as well as Rouge Trooper and Chainsaw Warrior. I would say go for a Box set in a genre that interests you. and just have fun and see where the journey takes you. Brilliant Video as well sir.
Something very good came out of something truly execrable. A really great update full of enthusiasm, positivity and love for the hobby. Similar to you i dont do refights, I game the little actions that never got recorded. The clash between patrols, a partisan unit escaping encirclement etc. There's thousands of years of inspiration to delve into. A hobby for life.
Nice video !I started with D&D but especially loved painting the miniatures. Went into North American War of 1812 and then moved on to HYW. Love the content! Cheers from Canada Bob
Great video! Exactly what I was looking for. Think I may bust out my Silver Bayonet and do some quasi historical. I also have a few miniatures I can finish for Clash of Spears. Then I’ll ask some friends to try out both games. I am looking at Hail Caesar for my mass battle game. imperial Rome vs Gauls probably.
I do love your first crusade army. I don't play historical wargames myself but I do collect the figures from a lot of these ranges and use them for my 3rd edition warhammer games.
Well said and so many things that could come out of my mouth....I have a similar TT life. :) The only point we might differ; I do kind of like removing casualities. ;)
Good video. Informed, enthusiastic, and pretty comprehensive. These days I play most of my games using Neil Thomas' rules, they're simple, direct and well thought out. Glad your move was successful. Looking forward to seeing you get back to playing games.
Great video. I got into wargaming a couple of years ago, after my friend in America got me to play Flames of war over the internet which I enjoyed .He told me to find a club and join up. I found a club in Cambridge and thought that I would not just turn up so I sent them some emails but I didn't get any response so I thought sod it I would leave it. My mate asked how I got on I said I was going to bother but he kept on at me, so I found another club which was really local so I joined what a great bunch of guys made me so welcome. I then started buying rule books and figs. And a awesome site on you tube ( 7th Son ) who has been so very helpful to me on my quest of putting together a W.O.T.R army thank you Martin. I just wish that I started wargaming years ago. Sorry for my long story cheers Grant
That's awesome mate, I'm so glad you found like minded people, and I'm glad you found my words helpful, always happy to help when it comes to the WOTR 😁
Very nice video. Going to give Warcry a go tonight, wish me luck! I got into wargaming via Terry Wise' introduction to wargaming using my older brother's Airfix WW2 and ACW collection, expanding into ancients and Napoleonic, then onto citadel miniatures, Dwarfs! Then back to historical and metals 15mm renaissance and Napoleonic. To make games cheaper to get into, we used card bases to practice with to see if we liked a game. Then bought the army if we did. I really enjoy the research and the painting, especially if the conflict is very niche/rare/obscure. Again great video, cannot wait for a hobby update, I need some motivation to complete my Byzantines over the thousand other projects on the go. Oh and be aware GW epic Horus Heresy is on it's way.....
@@7thson726 WC was a lot of fun, very simple to pick up, we played the original one as forgot about reactions which are in the new editon and will make it much more fun!
Good for you friend.. My take on Wargames for the last 50 years too and followed a very similar route albeit before you. Love your figs and approach to painting them.
@@7thson726 You are welcome. Love to see more of what I call the "super detailing" on the tutorials. Figures & Terrain pieces all the lovely eye candy etc.. Ideas, Characters. Vendettas developing between them a sort of narrative developing on the Crusades "Campaign" you are doing. Best of all love the Command bases Vignettes especially when they tell a "story" Keep going... All the best... Wayne
Another fantastic video. Barnet was brilliant. It was a good example of the best reasons to game, a good laugh, brilliant company and a wonderful tables full of lovingly painted miniatures. I agree about the freedom of historicals, I also rarely fight actual battles and the potential across thousands of years and thousands of theatres of war is vast.
Glad you liked it mate 😁 that game was ace, especially your division and Sam's doing exactly what happened historically (although now there is some evidence it was actually Gloucester that Oxford routed, not Hastings 🤔) 😁
Great chat. I have always been a historical gamer, Napoleonic and ww2. Just picked up The Judge Dread minatures game and it's giving me that enthusiasm to do some hobby again after a small break.
Thanks Martin for your contribution to the hobby. Your videos got me back into Black Powder and Hail Caesar, and encouraged me to get some toy soldiers on the table. I have many rule sets that I keep revisiting, and find Wargaming is the gift that keeps on giving. There is always a new project/period to try. Also thanks to battle reports like yours, and your PCP channel, I now feel part of a massive community of like minded people. Keep up the good work!
interesting storytelling. Personally, I prefer only historical games, as if you are immersed in an era. But the more diverse the games, the better, everyone can choose to their liking. Great release mate! 👏
I've just started getting into Historical Wargaming (long time sci-fi / fantasy wargamer). Currently building a 15th Century Albanian army. As a starter ruleset, I quite like the look of Never Mind the Billhooks. Includes a bit of history for each theatre to get you interested, a hobby section with painting and modelling and photos alongside rules explanations.
Awesome video and well explained. Like yourself I got into GW games in the mid 90's, and was an avid gamer till around 2007-08'ish. Recently got back into the hobby mainly due to an interest in historical wargaming, and again like yourself, prefer narrative skirmish type games. So far the ones that have piqued my interest most are Sharp Practice 2 for the black powder era, and Chain of Command for WW2. Have just finished painting a starter American Revolutionary force for Sharp Practice, and about to start working on their British counterparts.
Great video,i thought you covered things really well,personnally ive liked historical since i was a wee boy in the mid 70's enjoying the original airfix plastic figures,romans and britons were a big favourite.As i got older i got into d+d/fantasy and sci fi,although not a wargame as such, i really liked blood bowl.I like doing the research for historical games as i like history in general but i dont always stick to the historical outcome,make up my own scenario's too,like others im big on the "what if?" aspect.
Love the video. As I not done wargameing as long as you have I started about 5 years ago when I went to a modelling show and they had a wild west show in 28mm it's was great fun so when I went to a wargame event as I was on a budget thay had big bags of plans Indians going cheap so I was happy as the person who got me in to it gave me a lod of the 7th cavalry he did not want and now thanks to the Perry's boxes set of ACW plus bolt action as well that's about my historical background. 👍👍🤠🤠
Great video showcasing how good historical wargaming can be and the awesome community behind it. I’ve dabbled with painting historical minis but you’ve convinced me to jump into the gaming side!
Excellent video. The other video in question was laughable. I also started with 40K and WHFB but moved over to historicals. Love the research and reading through a period. Currently trying to decide if I should start a project for either the Baron's War or War of the Roses. Both very tempting. And my samurai have a lot waiting for attention
Great video. I started out with history and boardgames...Squad Leader back in 1981. Discovered Space Hulk around 1992 and 40K very soon after that. Now I am back into history boardgames, mainly with SPQR by GMT Games. And SAGA along with Oathmark using Romans and Gaul miniatures from Victrix.
Great video as always! Glad to see you survived the move. My wargaming journey is very similar to yours except I started in 1976 with Dungeons and Dragons. I, like you, enjoy the narrative style games that have a story line and character development. I started historical gaming in the 1990s , but found the rules and games somewhat tedious. I actually had taken some time off from gaming until I found your channel by accident and discovered you and your wife playing Dead Man's Hand and absolutely fell in love with the game. So, to a great extent, you and your wife revitalized my interest in gaming. I have since followed along and have became interested in building, painting, and playing Saga. I always look forward to your videos and am glad you are back in the saddle, so to speak.
Really positive video and a great way to address the slightly cack handed video that is definitely unlike that content creator I imagine prompted this. I generally play GW games but have recently started playing Barons War and love the content you have on this channel, despite not currently playing these games. Hope someone reaches out and invites the content creator to a historical war games club to show what it’s all about.
Hi Martin Great video, it was your battle reports that got me back into Napoleonic war gaming again. Haven’t done it for about 20 years, I’m trying very hard not to go into the war of the roses, but you are making it very hard😂. Keep up the great work.
Great video man! If you want to get back into fantasy, you should have a look at one page rules. My mate and I checked it out recently and loved it. It's what Age of Sigmar could've been if the bloat hadn't come back
I love the spectacle of a big game, I'm also drawn to some of the more esoteric campaigns and periods. That being said, for a newbie, I'd recommend picking a period and campaign that you find interesting and is reasonably well known. I'd then pick a set of large scale skirmish rules for it that people seem to like. That way finding an opponent and doing research will be relatively easy. I'd also choose a period and army that is easy to paint. Your investment won't be too big, you can get an army on the table reasonably quickly and, if it turns out not to be your bag, it should be relatively easy to sell or pass on the stuff. Keep it simple to start with. The two decade naval and land campaign you read about between 12th Century Chinese pirates and Borneoan headhunters fought using panel beaten Bolt Action rules can come later :-) But like our host says - remember to have fun.
Sorry for the slow reply, I missed this. I'd absolutely agree to jump in with a period that interests you, it makes everything a lot easier when planning. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 😁👍
Great video. Just one point - the first question someone wanting to get into historical wargaming should ask, before looking at rules, is what period of history they are most interested in. On rules to try out, it's worth mentioning the "blue book" rules from Osprey. It's also worth finding a local club and seeing what they play. I first encountered wargaming in the early 80s when I was about 10 or 11, having come across a book by Donald Featherstone that had been put back on the wrong shelf in my local library. I was intrigued so I took it out, then took out other books on the subject. I played some games with friends from my school-year but always hankered after proper wargaming. A-levels and university intervened and I forgot all about gaming until I was off long-term ill about 12 years ago. While I was stuck at home, I by chance came across a website of someone who was into space-ship games (using the Full Thrust rules) and that rekindled my interest, so I looked for a local club, found one that was conveniently between work and home, went along and haven't looked back since then (even if my bank balance and groaning floorboards may wish differently).
Good point 👍 I actually realised I don't own any of the blue book games from Osprey, but I've played a lot of them. I think that's part of the strength as they are easy to pick up and remember.
Welcome aboard, thanks for taking the time to comment. This is the good things about the hobby, there is always way more to discover, also, that's what makes it expensive 😅😁
Well done! A good way to confront the misinformation sometimes being provided elsewhere. Also, a good game for beginners with a relatively low entry cost could be Lion Rampant. Thanks for the quality of your content, congrats!😎👍
Agree with all your points and the idea of a narrative behind games is important to me too. I would add that I quite like playing games whereby history is reversed, and what if scenarios. To add to your getting players into historical games I think Lion Rampant set of games are good fun and very simple to play. Thanks as always for the video.
Wargaming is a "lab" for me when doing a deep dive on reading about operation typhoon, for example. When if i give the germans another week of good weather before the mud? I enjoy it and adds to my reading experience.
Outstanding video! For games that are a unit on a base, try Impetus. For skirmish and larger battles try the various rules by Ganesha Games. For a great game with an average of 30 miniatures in an _army_, De Bellis Antiquitatus (DBA) by Phil Barker of Wargames Research Group (WRG) fame one of the Grandads (in his 90's and still active) of Miniatures Wargaming (Rick Priestly started with WRG 4th edition rules!).
I completely feel you on Warhammer. Top tier lore and setting, but the minis are outrageously priced and the current rules look… complicated. I almost got back into it, but I think I’ll stick with historical/ 15mm fantasy.
I know exactly what you mean, I keep hovering on pushing the button on some 30k stuff but always back off at the last minute 😅 glad you liked the video 👍
Great video and your minis show that you can get quite spectacle without resorting to fantasy. As for what games to get when starting out: SAGA - this one is a bit divisive in the community depending on taste. Its mechanics resemble those of board games using the battle board to give your units different abilities from turn to turn. Either you'll like this or not so much. Personally I like my games to be tactical rather than rely on gimmicks so I've avoided SAGA. Hail Caesar - a good game but it has some very Rick Priestly things in it with lots of random factors which can turn people off. Both the Command and the Morale system has huge RNG swings which can basically remove your army from the game without you having any ability to affect it. I'd recommend Swordpoint by Gripping Beast, Tercios by Liber Militum, Comitatus or Tree of Battles by Legio Wargames as alternatives to Hail Caesar. For the old school but greatly stream lined and improved Warhammer historical experience, check out War and Conquest by Scarab Miniatures. For skirmishes of all sorts, look no further than the family of Lion Rampant and its many spin offs by Osprey Publishing. The Rampant engine is a truly robust, simple and versatile one, producing great games with a smaller amount of minis. The variants cover everything from Vikings to Renaissance to Horse and Shot to 19th century games. And there are many fan made variants, for example for the Greek, Roman and Chariot periods.
Some excellent points, I think Saga is a good transitional game when coming from a Fantasy/sci fi background as it has those "gimmicky" elements. Totally agree about the Osprey blue books. Thanks for taking the time to put all that down. The list grows 😁👍
I stated with historical in the 1960's. In the early 1990's, I did Warhammer Fantasy and 40K. At 75 years of age. I'm back to historicals. I saw the movie ZULU and started gaming with Black Powder. This was a great video! I've subscribed.
My original experience with wargaming was rather formal as I was put in a military, boarding school at age 7 through to 18. Initially we just used Crimean War figures to learn drill field maneuvers and basic tactical terms but in junior high school (7th & 8th level classes) we began learning platoon & squad level field tactics. In high school things graduated to the grand strategy level with units being reduced to board game cardboard chits and formal education & hands on artillery education. After graduating, like you, my money went to simply surviving since my family disowned me for VERY publicly opposing the Vietnam War, after all the money and effort they'd put into my private school education and a congressional appointment to one of the military academies. But I never lost my love of military history or miniatures. I was drafted and saw the worst of war's reality. When I got back I discovered Ral Partha & Tom Mier's gorgeous fantasy and historical sculpts and a free rules set from them as well and I was off. Painting the figures gave me great peace and the fantasy battles between medieval lord or Tolkien's monsters gave me great fun and were far away from machine guns & mortar attacks. In the 90's I connected with a club & eventually got a job at a game shop & my collection exploded. I'm still working on figures I got there 10 or 12 years ago. I can't do 20th century, especially tank warfare, I lost too many friends in that reality, it makes me anxious and I don't sleep well. Napoleonics has got it's claws into me and I can't stop collecting & painting all those crazy bright uniforms & game tactics. The history is fascinating and the "What Ifs" infinite on both a gaming and history level. This hobby has helped me through some of the worst times in my life and crowned some of the best with joy. I love it. Hugs !
Wow, thank you for sharing that. What a journey, it's amazing all the stories I've now heard off the back of this video and so how many of us came to the hobby for similar reasons but from totally different backgrounds 👍 thanks for taking the time to comment
Great game Saga, I seem to play Age of Vikings more than anything. Lots of nice looking armies to collect in AOC and loads of companies that make minis for them, good choice 👍
Great vid; good encouragement for historical wargames. There are a huge number of periods to pick from - Ancients to Modern .... pick one that peaks an interest; do you want to play small skirmish games or bigger battles - it's all out there. Fig scale is very much a matter of preference & there are quite a range of sizes to choose from 2mm (get out the microscope) - 54mm (old toy soldier size - not bad for the small skirmish, but pricey). The current fashion is for 28mm, but some of the smaller scales can give a better impression for bigger battles. Don't necessarily get hung up on popular manufacturers; don't deride the 'good old fashioned' 1/72 scale as this is a cheap way into the hobby.
Great video I'm just starting ancients coming from bolt action and I agree, so far I haven't spent alot or acquired alot to get going. Two games I'd recommend which I think you would like #1 middle earth strategy battle game. Quite good fun And #2 marvel crisis made by the legion guys it's a great game really became my number 1 very quickly. If you like marvel of coarse.
The starter box is pretty good value gives you ten hero's. I was thinking the same but you don't have to buy any rules or supplements only the characters you want
Good to hear you're continuing the 1st crusade games! It's maybe my favorite time in medieval history! I have recently started painting samurais and I'm considering starting a battle report on the battle of sekigahara. I can't wait to see those Byzantines of yours!! :)
Good work on this. Why do we play historical wargames? Because we love it, that’s why. Scale, rules, size of action, historical periods, there is so much to work with who needs fantasy or Sc-Fi is a more interesting question, when we have the whole of human history to game in? And, that to decry fantasy and sci-Fi, if people want to do that crack on and enjoy, it’s just game at the end of day.
This is how you go about explaining historical wargaming and why you are into it. I very much appreciate not being accused of being a Nazi or believing in their ideology because I fancy their vehicles and such and want to build models of them and paint them. History is very important to me. I have always loved history and when I discovered wargaming it was a natural place for me to start. I like a variety of periods and I find that when I start out on a project it makes me do research and that is the appeal there. I also find that painting these miniatures or building these model kits is a great way to honor the past. That is something warhammer players who only dwell in the Games workshop bubble will never understand. I feel the people making the videos that pretty much insulted a great number of historical wargamers are doing so to get attention for some warped reason. All I can say is if a channel/individual accused me of being a Nazi or any number of things from history because I paint this or collect that is to simply sit and spin. I don't have tolerance for that crap and quite frankly only individuals of low intelligence (looking at you Guy) use these buzzwords floating about society now to start labeling people whatever they want so they have a reason to insult them. At any rate nice video sorry for the rant.
@@rangda_prime I can believe that. I feel it is extremely uncalled for to call someone a Nazi simply for collecting and painting models and miniatures of the Germans in ww2. I do feel that 40k players mostly have their heads up their rears but that is another issue. I think Guy is flat out an ignorant individual who isn't worth anymore of my time.
Brilliant video - some of the other videos out there on this topic alarmed me - they seem to present an either/or viewpoint akin to cancel culture, which is, in my opinion, as dangerous as the things they cancel. This video presented a mature and passionate viewpoint; a credit to historical gamers. Thank you.
Could you elaborate? I'm assuming you're referring to the sort of elitism some historical gamers seem to have (unfortunately a stereotype of us all now :/)
For new players I would suggest trying out one of the Commands and Colours games like samurai battles or ancients. You get everything you need in the box and can dip your toes into wargaming without the daunting task of needing to collect and paint minis from scratch. Another nice beginner rules system os One Hour Wargames, it even has a little preamble about how to get into wargaming and finding minis. The rules are simple to learn and dont require too many minis (3-6 units a side). The rules encompass several periods so new players can dip their toes into what they find most interesting. I haven't played any of the Paper boys games, but imagine that these could be a cheap way to get into historical wargaming as well. After all, people who are completely new to the hobby most likely don't have friends who already play which they can borrow minis from. In that case, starting might be extra daunting since you'll need to collect two armies. Being able to bang out some paper minis extra quick and getting some games in might give enough early dopamine to take the plunge and collect 3D minis.
Another set of excellent suggestions, as I scroll through the comments the need for a written list of all these systems 👍 Thanks for taking the time to comment
I played a bit of 40k when I was about 14 but then like this man I saw the light of historical wargaming and now I'm a gentleman doing a gentleman's hobby and not a total dork
Very useful and interesting video, Martin 👍. I’m not sure I’ve ever considered myself a particular type of gamer, just a gamer 😀. Currently I’m playing lots of historical games, but still interested in all sort of fantasy and sci-fi stories as well.
It's funny the way we decide to distinguish ourselves from other parts of the hobby. I guess it's just that need for some level of autonomy 👍 glad you enjoyed it
Great video that demonstrates how positive this hobby can be regardless of whether its historical or fantasy/scifi. I play both historical and scifi, I enjoy the research and historical battles that ask ‘what if?’, how changing some of the historical context might have changed the outcome of the battle. I also enjoy the idea of Imaginations (though mainly for scifi, although the different nations are often inspired by a historical nation (I have one space fleet inspired by the Italian Warring states!)). I do think that you can choose to avoid certain historical periods or events if they make you uncomfortable, but that’s my choice not something I have the right to impose on others (For example, I avoid the whole Pony Wars thing as I live in an area with many first nations who still have significant challenges dealing with the long term fallout of colonialism so for me it just feels far too current and real. I can appreciate someone from Scunthorpe not have the same day to day lived experience however). Once again, great reasoned and positive perspective on Historical Wargaming
Thanks for this. As an old-school WHFB player who is wondering whether Warhammer the Old World is really worth getting into, or if there's anything 'better', this video is very interesting, but one big topic is left undiscussed: how does historical wargaming compare to warhammer for example when it comes to diversity of units and also rules. My big concern is that it will all be rather bland, because it must be realistic. For example, the difference between a pict and a roman legionary might be as big as i can imagine, but i will never get close to the diversity in units and rules and stats that you can think of in fantasy. So are all units very similar in historical gameing, and isn't that a bit ... boring? And if so, where does the excitement come from in its gameplay? In fantasy a large beast or dragon or extremely decked out elite unit might be very exciting to play (against), what could compare to that, other than the exceptional war elephant? Or how do the rules compare, are the rules more simple as well (as i assume the units are)? All these things are a total unknown to someone who only knows fantasy wargaming, but i'd love to know all this, it would make for a very interesting video i reckon
So firstly sorry for the delay in responding - I wanted to take some time to think about this as I think it's a great set of questions and I wanted to give it some thought. Also I think this would make a good topic for a video, and probably a section on the live stream. Regarding diversity of units, this is obviously hard to argue. Fantasy is only limited by your imagination, I can't argue that it's not awesome seeing a dragon for example smashing into a unit. However, historical wargaming, at least with the majority of the games I play, deals with things on a larger level. So in Warhammer for example, the individual soldier matters, a high elf spearmen for example has its own stats, whereas in Historical, it's the unit that has the stats, it generally doesn't matter how many people are in it. Also, when it comes to diversity I would say you are both right, but also wrong, it totally depends on what you're doing, which I realise is an unoriginal answer. So take the Wars of the Roses.as it's a set of civil wars in Britain the armies "look" similar as they have the same troop types, the flavour comes from the characters and the abilities that they confer on their units. However take the first crusade which I'm currently playing, the armies are incredibly diverse, the crusaders have knights, pilgrims, men at arms, archers mercenaries, warrior orders, even a unit of lunatics who were allegedly cannibals led by a knight with a scythe 😅 on the other side you have fast moving light cavalry archers, fanatical lunatics, chaps with siphon flamethrowers and greek fire grenades, chaps riding camels, assassins (possibly😂) and devices that were used by castle defenders to pluck wounded enemies from the bottom of castle walls and drag them up the walls where they could be displayed. All this matched with characters like Bohemond of Antioch, Kilij Arslan and others makes it a great setting for games. Having said all this though I do feel that historicals work best when playing with passionate people whose love for the game breaks through some of the seemingly "dull" stuff. I play fantasy, sci fi and historicals as they all scratch a different itch for me. If it would help illustrate how exciting the games can be id certainly recommend checking out some of the 1st Crusade games on the channel or the WOTR ones (especially the three siege games 😁) I may have gone off on a tangent here but I hope that helps explain it a little. I would certainly like to explore this further so I may well do a video discussing it 😁😅 hope you have a great weekend
@@7thson726 thanks a lot for your incredibly extensive answer, it does shed some light on the whole matter, although i must admit my preconceptions would take some hard proof to overturn haha. I will definitely check out some 1st crusade and WOTR games! And i'm glad to hear you think it's a good idea for a video, i really i'd be a whole new niche of video to compare games and gaming systems to eachother, which attracts people from both sides and broadens everyone's horizon
This is how you do a video talking about Historical wargames! Great job!
Glad you like it buddy 👍😁
Anyone who doesn't like points systems is OK with me. Enjoyed the video.
Absolutely 👍😁 glad you enjoyed it
"My game, my rules and my table" - absoutely correct; and no one has the right to say you can't do that or to criticise you (or anyone else) for engaging in a hobby that you enjoy and which harms no one. I found this video while searching for painting tips for WotR figures as I'm starting to build a retinue for Never Mind the Billhooks; and I've just subscribed after watching. Thanks for sharing an interesting and informative insight into why you enjoy this hobby. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Really appreciate you taking the time to comment and glad you enjoyed the video. Absolutely, I'll play the way that makes the most sense and seems the most fun 👍
This is why i prefer board games over computer wargames. "My table and rules". Cant tweak a computer game
This really brings out the the best in our hobby
Thanks very much 👍
Absolutely loved this video and sat rivetted to it... and I realy like your level headed attitude to your hobby (I have absolutely zero time for the curent trend of kill joys within the hobby). Been a gamer all my life (with a passionate love for solo as well). I guess over the last 45 years or so, I`ve gathered a pretty eclectic range of interests (and models for them all), from Samarai, Ancients, Medieval, Fantasy, Lord of the Rings (even Xena and Conan), Napoleonics (including Scxarlet Pimpernel narratie play), Alemo, War of Independance and French Indian War, ACW, D&D, WWI and WWII, Sci-fi, Star Wars, Wild West, and many many more... so yeah, I really do enjoy my hobby, and am amazingly fortunate to have a wonderful wife who shares the hobby right alongside with me. I`m not a fussy modeler/painter and often chuckle to myself and think... the ol`fellas like me who come from a golden, almost pioneering age of gaming... do their models get sneered at when they cart them along to the clubs to play with and shand UP against the modern trend of `perfection ` painting and (practically) pro standard. Are their "Wargame standard" laughed out of the club, or do their models look out of place? That`s one of the joys of solo... I only have to please myself and have noone to tell me whats wrogn or right hehe.
Scure the typos :-)
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Really pleased you enjoyed the video and thanks for sharing your story. There have been some great hobby journeys in the comments here 👍😁
As someone who started wargaming in 1971, I am so glad to see the hobby carrying on to the next generation. Also: Nice to see your face (I had been seeing your wife's face on screen during your Napoleonic videos, but only heard your voice). You are absolutely right to want to leave the units on the board as long as possible (and not remove casualties). I enjoy Napoleonics, and look forward to more of your Black Powder videos.
I want my models to spend as long on there as possible 😅 not always possible with my rolling, especially when playing my wife 👍😁
He'd been seeing your wife 😳
@@DJRockford83 during the Napoleonic Battle reports 😁
Fantastic video Martin, my journey into historic wargaming was similar to yours, but started ten years earlier 😂
I play historic, scifi and fantasy games now.
I enjoy the research when i get into a new historic period. And through gaming over many years i have made some fantastic friends and met many interesting folk who share a passion for the hobby.
Cheers mate, sounds like the best of all outcomes 👍 there are fantastic people in the hobby and I've made loads of mates I would never had the chance to without it 🙂
Well said. I used to play Warhammer Fantasy in the 90s and early 2000's (4th and 5th, little bit of 6th). I've recently got into historical wargaming after years of reading about history and it's so much fun. There is a great club with a great bunch of lads. No one takes the history too seriously, it's all just fun and everyone has a real passion for history.
Brilliant, glad you enjoyed the video 👍
Nicely put. All wargaming is deeply personal. I enjoy reading about the history of different ages, both social and military, and wargaming is a good way to mix that with my joy of building and painting models.
Thank you 👍
Really enjoyed this Martin, very nicely done. Mostly excellently positive as well. 🙂
Cheers mate, really pleased you enjoyed it 👍
100% agree. Excellent video. Keep up the great content 🙌🏻
Thanks buddy 👍 will do 😁
Hoorah for wargaming variety! Well done Martin!
Cheers buddy 😁
Great vid, so true, I actually don't play much historical, I am still addicted to warhammer. But the video you reference made me pull my hair out, when I do play historical with a friend of mine we just play who we want! (the same as you do with warhammer!)
Commenting as my Grandfather was also at Arnhem; captured, survived.
Glad you enjoyed it dude, thanks for watching 👍
Finally got around to watching this! Thanks!
Hope you enjoyed it, thanks for watching
Outstanding video. Completely agree on points systems. Once you introduce points, you enter the realm of the tournament, but not a battle.
Thanks very much. I've gone right off points, it just detracts from what could be an excellent narrative 👍
Thanks!
You're welcome my friend 👍
Really interesting and in-depth video about your personal journey into historical wargaming.
Also I love how you went into detail about the transition from Warhammer/sci-fi to historical, which resonates with me a lot as I'm currently switching over from WH 40K to more historical games too.
After seeing the other videos you mentioned online, this is by far the most mature and interesting take on why you/we play historical wargames.
Thank you for your great content as always!
Really appreciate it, thanks for watching 👍
Cracking video that manages to stay positive throughout! I perfect not a response to that video from those who will not be named but also an excellent general video on historical wargaming and how there can be something for anyone!
Really pleased you like it, wanted to stay positive throughout as that's why I enjoy the hobby, if it becomes to down or negative then what's the point .. then it's like work 😅
Thanks Martin - really interesting. Each time I contemplate the navel of my own wargaming I keep coming back to my fascination with the splendour and variety of Napoleonic uniforms, en masse!
Thanks for watching buddy 👍
I like looking at the channels of people that comment on GOOD wargaming videos like yours. That’s where I seem to find the best content to watch. The comments section of your videos are a gathering of people that have been making my hobby life better for more than a decade. Thank you for sharing your hobby life with us, I will watch and rewatch until we’re all dead.
Thank you so much, I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time to comment 👍
Really interesting talk Martin, was great to listen to and some wonderful points made.
Thanks buddy, glad you enjoyed it 👍
Wargaming is a rich & wonderful hobby. Great vid m8.
Thanks buddy 👍
A great video that articulates superbly what I believe a lot of people in this hobby are thinking. You have set out perfectly why this is a hobby like no other, and brings joy to so many of us. I can only speak for myself, but the recent video by a prominent TH-camr that has set off all this discussion has annoyed many people on the historical wargaming side of this hobby.
What I found most annoying is that it was just a lazy take on historical wargaming. No attempt was made to try and understand an aspect of miniature wargaming that midwinter minis was unfamiliar with. Instead, it went straight to, I don't understand it, so it must be bad, and those that disagree with me must be bad people.That is a poor way to approach any debate.
What you have done, I think, is a brilliant video setting out why historical wargaming is a focus for good and why so many of us have devoted so much of our spare time to this amazing hobby.
Thank you buddy, really appreciate that 🙂👍
Another quality video! (Bonus points for Doomsday book)
Haha wouldn't be without it 😁
Really enjoyed the video! For me the research of particular conflict is a big part why I love historical wargaming... the tactics, uniforms, weapons, battles, interesting characters. That said, my mind still wanders from time to time into some grimdark places, which mostly aren't related to GW (Turnip28, Planet 28, etc.).
I know that this video was probably a consequence of an inner response to a particular video, and I do hope that many of folks that live in a GW bubble will see it, as I do consider it a nice introduction to historical wargaming for anyone with the slightest interest.
BTW, I think rules/systems from Daniel Mersey could also serve as a nice intro level primers.
Thanks for the recommendation, I feel a list of these games may be worthwhile 👍
Glad you enjoyed the vid 😁
Thank you for your thoughts.
Welcome back online.
Hope your move went as smoothly as possible.
Glad to be back 👍 all went well, still a few bits and bobs to sort out but more or less done
Great video. Another inexpensive way of trying historical games is smaller scales, for example 10mm. Manufacturers like Lancer and Pendraken sell a complete army pack. Buy one without a distinctive uniform so any era before 1650, divide it between two friends, paint it, play.
Thanks 👍 this is very true, easy to pick up a force in 10 or 6 mm and try a ruleset out first to see if you like it
Bravo on a great video! 30 year wargaming and counting, just starting ECW and loving it. Cheers from Virginia 🇺🇸
Appreciate it, thank you 👍😁 awesome you're starting ECW, have you picked a side?
@@7thson726 Have to paint both since no one around here ever heard of a Civil War other than ours. But I prefer Royalists.
Omg! That white dwarf with the bunker was the first one I got too! I bought it after getting Space Crusade for Christmas.
I had that bunker for years 😅
You're a class act, Martin. Well said.
Thanks dude 👍
Great video Martin. I started with D and D then moved into Airfix Napoleonic wargaming having been given the book "the Wargame" by Donald Featherstone. I then , like you , kind of drifted away while at University but came back through GW and Warhammer which I played for many years till they pulled the plug on it. I then got into Infinity and Saga and Bolt action. Like you I studied History and love the research side of the hobby. I too would recommend Saga as a good entry point game. Dead man's hand is a fantastic system and there's a new game "what a Cowboy" just come out that I'm keen to try. Thanks for all your hard work putting out such excellent content. See you at Crackcon!
Thanks buddy glad you enjoyed it 👍 I had to leave TTRPGs out of the video otherwise it would have been 3 hours long, I can go on and on about campaigns, house rules and minis for them for ages 😅
Brilliant, positive video. You've definitely piqued my interest in Saga and Hail Caeser
Thanks very much. Being positive is the best way to get people to try new things. Plenty of Hail Caesar and Saga here on the channel, hope you enjoy looking into it 👍 give me a shout if I can help at all
Fantastic video Martin, totally agree with everything you said. Another reason I like historical gaming is for the what ifs of history, and trying to change the outcome of a certain period or battle on the tabletop. I also love doing the research into what ever army or period I’m doing
Thanks mate, really pleased you enjoyed it 👍
Nicely done mate. I am biased but I’d add to the games to try list with Sharp Practice. One box of Perry Minis or Warlord figures, and you have all the troops you need
Absolutely, great shout, maybe a list is in order for the PCP. Beginner friendly historical games 😁
As someone who was first introduced to Historical Wargaming at the age of 4 (English Civil War, Ancient, Napoleonic as well as WW1 and WW2), I'm 51 now. I started out using the Rules my Dad used in the 70's moved on to 40k and GW games, as well as Rouge Trooper and Chainsaw Warrior. I would say go for a Box set in a genre that interests you. and just have fun and see where the journey takes you. Brilliant Video as well sir.
Really appreciate it, thanks 👍
Something very good came out of something truly execrable. A really great update full of enthusiasm, positivity and love for the hobby. Similar to you i dont do refights, I game the little actions that never got recorded. The clash between patrols, a partisan unit escaping encirclement etc. There's thousands of years of inspiration to delve into. A hobby for life.
Really pleased you enjoyed it 👍😁
Nice video !I started with D&D but especially loved painting the miniatures.
Went into North American War of 1812 and then moved on to HYW.
Love the content!
Cheers from Canada
Bob
Thanks my friend, Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Great video! Exactly what I was looking for. Think I may bust out my Silver Bayonet and do some quasi historical. I also have a few miniatures I can finish for Clash of Spears. Then I’ll ask some friends to try out both games. I am looking at Hail Caesar for my mass battle game. imperial Rome vs Gauls probably.
Awesome, thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. Hail Caesar works well for that for sure. I do keep meaning to try Silver Bayonet 👍
Great insight on how to enjoy war games👍👍
If you don't enjoy it what's the point 👍 best way to advertise it to people is to show how fun and rewarding it can be, Thanks for watching
Really enjoyed this Martin
Thanks buddy, really appreciate it 👍
Such a wholesome video! Thanks for making it.
No problem, glad you enjoyed it 👍
I do love your first crusade army. I don't play historical wargames myself but I do collect the figures from a lot of these ranges and use them for my 3rd edition warhammer games.
Thanks, its nice to hear you like the project, I'm looking forward to getting it on the table soon 👍
Well said and so many things that could come out of my mouth....I have a similar TT life. :) The only point we might differ; I do kind of like removing casualities. ;)
Haha I think we can let that one lie 😁 thanks for watching and taking the time to comment, glad you enjoyed the video
Good video. Informed, enthusiastic, and pretty comprehensive. These days I play most of my games using Neil Thomas' rules, they're simple, direct and well thought out. Glad your move was successful. Looking forward to seeing you get back to playing games.
Didn't know you had a youtube channel Paul, subscribed! :)
@@GermyBugger I try to keep up with the cool kids. Thanks for the sub.
Thanks mate, glad you enjoyed it 👍 I also didn't realise you had a channel, some lovely work on there, have subbed as well 😁
@@7thson726 Thank you.
Well said and I agree completely. Historical gaming is so rewarding and rich in creativity. ⚔️
Cheers 👍 there are so many awesome stories to tell it's only limited by the restrictions you place on yourself
Great video. I got into wargaming a couple of years ago, after my friend in America got me to play Flames of war over the internet which I enjoyed .He told me to find a club and join up. I found a club in Cambridge and thought that I would not just turn up so I sent them some emails but I didn't get any response so I thought sod it I would leave it.
My mate asked how I got on I said I was going to bother but he kept on at me, so I found another club which was really local so I joined what a great bunch of guys made me so welcome. I then started buying rule books and figs. And a awesome site on you tube ( 7th Son ) who has been so very helpful to me on my quest of putting together a W.O.T.R army thank you Martin. I just wish that I started wargaming years ago. Sorry for my long story cheers Grant
That's awesome mate, I'm so glad you found like minded people, and I'm glad you found my words helpful, always happy to help when it comes to the WOTR 😁
Very nice video. Going to give Warcry a go tonight, wish me luck! I got into wargaming via Terry Wise' introduction to wargaming using my older brother's Airfix WW2 and ACW collection, expanding into ancients and Napoleonic, then onto citadel miniatures, Dwarfs! Then back to historical and metals 15mm renaissance and Napoleonic. To make games cheaper to get into, we used card bases to practice with to see if we liked a game. Then bought the army if we did. I really enjoy the research and the painting, especially if the conflict is very niche/rare/obscure. Again great video, cannot wait for a hobby update, I need some motivation to complete my Byzantines over the thousand other projects on the go. Oh and be aware GW epic Horus Heresy is on it's way.....
Haha Byzantines and Crusade update is on the way. Let me know how Warcry was, I'm very very tempted by it 👍
@@7thson726 WC was a lot of fun, very simple to pick up, we played the original one as forgot about reactions which are in the new editon and will make it much more fun!
Good for you friend.. My take on Wargames for the last 50 years too and followed a very similar route albeit before you. Love your figs and approach to painting them.
Thanks 😁 appreciate it
@@7thson726 You are welcome.
Love to see more of what I call the "super detailing" on the tutorials. Figures & Terrain pieces all the lovely eye candy etc..
Ideas, Characters. Vendettas developing between them a sort of narrative developing on the Crusades "Campaign" you are doing. Best of all love the Command bases Vignettes especially when they tell a "story"
Keep going...
All the best...
Wayne
Nice talk and intro to historical wargaming! Thank you!
You're welcome 👍😁 glad you enjoyed it
Another fantastic video. Barnet was brilliant. It was a good example of the best reasons to game, a good laugh, brilliant company and a wonderful tables full of lovingly painted miniatures. I agree about the freedom of historicals, I also rarely fight actual battles and the potential across thousands of years and thousands of theatres of war is vast.
Glad you liked it mate 😁 that game was ace, especially your division and Sam's doing exactly what happened historically (although now there is some evidence it was actually Gloucester that Oxford routed, not Hastings 🤔) 😁
Great chat. I have always been a historical gamer, Napoleonic and ww2. Just picked up The Judge Dread minatures game and it's giving me that enthusiasm to do some hobby again after a small break.
Judge Dredd is another one I want to play 😅
Thanks Martin for your contribution to the hobby. Your videos got me back into Black Powder and Hail Caesar, and encouraged me to get some toy soldiers on the table. I have many rule sets that I keep revisiting, and find Wargaming is the gift that keeps on giving. There is always a new project/period to try. Also thanks to battle reports like yours, and your PCP channel, I now feel part of a massive community of like minded people. Keep up the good work!
You're more than welcome 👍 thanks for taking the time to watch and comment
interesting storytelling. Personally, I prefer only historical games, as if you are immersed in an era. But the more diverse the games, the better, everyone can choose to their liking. Great release mate! 👏
Really appreciate dude, take care of yourself 👍
I've just started getting into Historical Wargaming (long time sci-fi / fantasy wargamer). Currently building a 15th Century Albanian army. As a starter ruleset, I quite like the look of Never Mind the Billhooks. Includes a bit of history for each theatre to get you interested, a hobby section with painting and modelling and photos alongside rules explanations.
Thanks for taking the time to comment and welcome to historical gaming 😁👍
Great take on that ham fisted vid doing the rounds. Well done Martin. Also made without hypocritical sponsorship too!
Cheers Paul, really glad you liked it 👍🙂
Excellent! Very much enjoy your point of view on historical gaming
Thanks for taking the time to comment 👍
Awesome video and well explained. Like yourself I got into GW games in the mid 90's, and was an avid gamer till around 2007-08'ish. Recently got back into the hobby mainly due to an interest in historical wargaming, and again like yourself, prefer narrative skirmish type games. So far the ones that have piqued my interest most are Sharp Practice 2 for the black powder era, and Chain of Command for WW2. Have just finished painting a starter American Revolutionary force for Sharp Practice, and about to start working on their British counterparts.
Chain of command is good fun as is sharp practice, thanks for taking the time to watch 👍
Great video,i thought you covered things really well,personnally ive liked historical since i was a wee boy in the mid 70's enjoying the original airfix plastic figures,romans and britons were a big favourite.As i got older i got into d+d/fantasy and sci fi,although not a wargame as such, i really liked blood bowl.I like doing the research for historical games as i like history in general but i dont always stick to the historical outcome,make up my own scenario's too,like others im big on the "what if?" aspect.
Thanks for watching 👍 I agree, I just find historicals are another avenue to explore awesome narratives 🙂
Love the video. As I not done wargameing as long as you have I started about 5 years ago when I went to a modelling show and they had a wild west show in 28mm it's was great fun so when I went to a wargame event as I was on a budget thay had big bags of plans Indians going cheap so I was happy as the person who got me in to it gave me a lod of the 7th cavalry he did not want and now thanks to the Perry's boxes set of ACW plus bolt action as well that's about my historical background. 👍👍🤠🤠
Fantastic, what a way to start 👍
Great video showcasing how good historical wargaming can be and the awesome community behind it. I’ve dabbled with painting historical minis but you’ve convinced me to jump into the gaming side!
Fantastic, thanks for checking it out 👍 which game you looking at?
I’ve gone with saga - already ordered the rulebook and age of Hannibal supplement 😂
@@miniaturemiddleearth7376 I take it you've checked out the awesome Elephant kits from Victrix 😁 and you get 2 in there
Excellent video. The other video in question was laughable. I also started with 40K and WHFB but moved over to historicals. Love the research and reading through a period. Currently trying to decide if I should start a project for either the Baron's War or War of the Roses. Both very tempting. And my samurai have a lot waiting for attention
Well I'm biased but the WOTR would get my vote haha 😅 thanks for watching
Great video. I started out with history and boardgames...Squad Leader back in 1981. Discovered Space Hulk around 1992 and 40K very soon after that. Now I am back into history boardgames, mainly with SPQR by GMT Games. And SAGA along with Oathmark using Romans and Gaul miniatures from Victrix.
Thanks for watching 👍 I'd forgotten about Space Hulk, that was a brutal game
Great video as always! Glad to see you survived the move. My wargaming journey is very similar to yours except I started in 1976 with Dungeons and Dragons. I, like you, enjoy the narrative style games that have a story line and character development. I started historical gaming in the 1990s , but found the rules and games somewhat tedious. I actually had taken some time off from gaming until I found your channel by accident and discovered you and your wife playing Dead Man's Hand and absolutely fell in love with the game. So, to a great extent, you and your wife revitalized my interest in gaming. I have since followed along and have became interested in building, painting, and playing Saga. I always look forward to your videos and am glad you are back in the saddle, so to speak.
That's so awesome to hear, thank you 😁 that means alot to myself and Hayley so thanks for taking the time to comment 👍
Really positive video and a great way to address the slightly cack handed video that is definitely unlike that content creator I imagine prompted this.
I generally play GW games but have recently started playing Barons War and love the content you have on this channel, despite not currently playing these games.
Hope someone reaches out and invites the content creator to a historical war games club to show what it’s all about.
Barons War is a cracking game, shortly going to be on the channel here as well 😉 glad you liked the video 👍
Hi Martin
Great video, it was your battle reports that got me back into Napoleonic war gaming again. Haven’t done it for about 20 years, I’m trying very hard not to go into the war of the roses, but you are making it very hard😂.
Keep up the great work.
Haha go for it, something for everyone in the WOTR 😁 Glad you liked the video
Great video man! If you want to get back into fantasy, you should have a look at one page rules. My mate and I checked it out recently and loved it. It's what Age of Sigmar could've been if the bloat hadn't come back
I'll take a look thank you 😁
I love the spectacle of a big game, I'm also drawn to some of the more esoteric campaigns and periods. That being said, for a newbie, I'd recommend picking a period and campaign that you find interesting and is reasonably well known. I'd then pick a set of large scale skirmish rules for it that people seem to like. That way finding an opponent and doing research will be relatively easy. I'd also choose a period and army that is easy to paint. Your investment won't be too big, you can get an army on the table reasonably quickly and, if it turns out not to be your bag, it should be relatively easy to sell or pass on the stuff.
Keep it simple to start with. The two decade naval and land campaign you read about between 12th Century Chinese pirates and Borneoan headhunters fought using panel beaten Bolt Action rules can come later :-) But like our host says - remember to have fun.
Sorry for the slow reply, I missed this. I'd absolutely agree to jump in with a period that interests you, it makes everything a lot easier when planning. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 😁👍
A great video and promotion for our hobby.
Cheers Andy, appreciate it 👍
Very interesting hearing your journey into historical wargaming. Particularly, , from someone coming from a sci -fi fantasy background.
Appreciate that thanks very much 👍 it's been an interesting journey for sure
Your videos encourage me to finish painting my Black Powder 28mm, thanks!
Brilliant, and thank you as well for the supertanker 👍😁 which army are you painting for Black Powder?
@@7thson726 Pennisular British and French, almost finished the two starter boxes.
Well done Martin, Just Sheer Quality!👍
Thanks buddy 👍
Great video. And good round up of the hobby as a whole.👍
Thanks buddy 👍
Good video on the subject . For an ancients starter game you could try DBA , its easy then to expand the forces for games with more figures .
Thanks very much, I need to put a list together of these games I think haha 👍
Great vid. Really interesting thoughts.
Thanks 👍😁
Great video. Just one point - the first question someone wanting to get into historical wargaming should ask, before looking at rules, is what period of history they are most interested in.
On rules to try out, it's worth mentioning the "blue book" rules from Osprey. It's also worth finding a local club and seeing what they play.
I first encountered wargaming in the early 80s when I was about 10 or 11, having come across a book by Donald Featherstone that had been put back on the wrong shelf in my local library. I was intrigued so I took it out, then took out other books on the subject. I played some games with friends from my school-year but always hankered after proper wargaming. A-levels and university intervened and I forgot all about gaming until I was off long-term ill about 12 years ago. While I was stuck at home, I by chance came across a website of someone who was into space-ship games (using the Full Thrust rules) and that rekindled my interest, so I looked for a local club, found one that was conveniently between work and home, went along and haven't looked back since then (even if my bank balance and groaning floorboards may wish differently).
Good point 👍 I actually realised I don't own any of the blue book games from Osprey, but I've played a lot of them. I think that's part of the strength as they are easy to pick up and remember.
Great video! Its funny that I would discover your channel because some other video causing a ruckus among wargamers.
Welcome aboard, thanks for taking the time to comment. This is the good things about the hobby, there is always way more to discover, also, that's what makes it expensive 😅😁
Well done! A good way to confront the misinformation sometimes being provided elsewhere. Also, a good game for beginners with a relatively low entry cost could be Lion Rampant. Thanks for the quality of your content, congrats!😎👍
You're very welcome, thanks for watching 👍
I started off with ww2 which was airfix now am just started a few months back battle of Waterloo form warlord games and am really getting in to this
That's a great way to get back into it 👍
Agree with all your points and the idea of a narrative behind games is important to me too. I would add that I quite like playing games whereby history is reversed, and what if scenarios. To add to your getting players into historical games I think Lion Rampant set of games are good fun and very simple to play. Thanks as always for the video.
Glad you liked it 😁👍
Wargaming is a "lab" for me when doing a deep dive on reading about operation typhoon, for example. When if i give the germans another week of good weather before the mud? I enjoy it and adds to my reading experience.
Great points, I feel very similar about the hobby 👍
Outstanding video!
For games that are a unit on a base, try Impetus. For skirmish and larger battles try the various rules by Ganesha Games. For a great game with an average of 30 miniatures in an _army_, De Bellis Antiquitatus (DBA) by Phil Barker of Wargames Research Group (WRG) fame one of the Grandads (in his 90's and still active) of Miniatures Wargaming (Rick Priestly started with WRG 4th edition rules!).
Impetus is one I've had the rules for for ages but not yet tried, maybe it's time to give it a go 😁👍
Great content mate.
Thank you buddy 👍
I completely feel you on Warhammer. Top tier lore and setting, but the minis are outrageously priced and the current rules look… complicated. I almost got back into it, but I think I’ll stick with historical/ 15mm fantasy.
I know exactly what you mean, I keep hovering on pushing the button on some 30k stuff but always back off at the last minute 😅 glad you liked the video 👍
Great video and your minis show that you can get quite spectacle without resorting to fantasy. As for what games to get when starting out:
SAGA - this one is a bit divisive in the community depending on taste. Its mechanics resemble those of board games using the battle board to give your units different abilities from turn to turn. Either you'll like this or not so much. Personally I like my games to be tactical rather than rely on gimmicks so I've avoided SAGA.
Hail Caesar - a good game but it has some very Rick Priestly things in it with lots of random factors which can turn people off. Both the Command and the Morale system has huge RNG swings which can basically remove your army from the game without you having any ability to affect it. I'd recommend Swordpoint by Gripping Beast, Tercios by Liber Militum, Comitatus or Tree of Battles by Legio Wargames as alternatives to Hail Caesar. For the old school but greatly stream lined and improved Warhammer historical experience, check out War and Conquest by Scarab Miniatures.
For skirmishes of all sorts, look no further than the family of Lion Rampant and its many spin offs by Osprey Publishing. The Rampant engine is a truly robust, simple and versatile one, producing great games with a smaller amount of minis. The variants cover everything from Vikings to Renaissance to Horse and Shot to 19th century games. And there are many fan made variants, for example for the Greek, Roman and Chariot periods.
Some excellent points, I think Saga is a good transitional game when coming from a Fantasy/sci fi background as it has those "gimmicky" elements. Totally agree about the Osprey blue books. Thanks for taking the time to put all that down. The list grows 😁👍
I stated with historical in the 1960's. In the early 1990's, I did Warhammer Fantasy and 40K. At 75 years of age. I'm back to historicals. I saw the movie ZULU and started gaming with Black Powder. This was a great video! I've subscribed.
Welcome aboard 👍 thanks for taking the time to comment. I'm currently working on my Anglo Zulu war stuff, making my way through the Naval Brigade 😁
My original experience with wargaming was rather formal as I was put in a military, boarding school at age 7 through to 18. Initially we just used Crimean War figures to learn drill field maneuvers and basic tactical terms but in junior high school (7th & 8th level classes) we began learning platoon & squad level field tactics. In high school things graduated to the grand strategy level with units being reduced to board game cardboard chits and formal education & hands on artillery education. After graduating, like you, my money went to simply surviving since my family disowned me for VERY publicly opposing the Vietnam War, after all the money and effort they'd put into my private school education and a congressional appointment to one of the military academies. But I never lost my love of military history or miniatures. I was drafted and saw the worst of war's reality. When I got back I discovered Ral Partha & Tom Mier's gorgeous fantasy and historical sculpts and a free rules set from them as well and I was off. Painting the figures gave me great peace and the fantasy battles between medieval lord or Tolkien's monsters gave me great fun and were far away from machine guns & mortar attacks. In the 90's I connected with a club & eventually got a job at a game shop & my collection exploded. I'm still working on figures I got there 10 or 12 years ago. I can't do 20th century, especially tank warfare, I lost too many friends in that reality, it makes me anxious and I don't sleep well. Napoleonics has got it's claws into me and I can't stop collecting & painting all those crazy bright uniforms & game tactics. The history is fascinating and the "What Ifs" infinite on both a gaming and history level. This hobby has helped me through some of the worst times in my life and crowned some of the best with joy. I love it. Hugs !
Wow, thank you for sharing that. What a journey, it's amazing all the stories I've now heard off the back of this video and so how many of us came to the hobby for similar reasons but from totally different backgrounds 👍 thanks for taking the time to comment
@@7thson726 No worries. Make more battle reports, yours are the best, Please. Cheers !
I started playing saga a few months ago and highly enjoy the system. the Vikings were my first choice and now looking at forces for the crusades era.
Great game Saga, I seem to play Age of Vikings more than anything. Lots of nice looking armies to collect in AOC and loads of companies that make minis for them, good choice 👍
Great vid; good encouragement for historical wargames. There are a huge number of periods to pick from - Ancients to Modern .... pick one that peaks an interest; do you want to play small skirmish games or bigger battles - it's all out there.
Fig scale is very much a matter of preference & there are quite a range of sizes to choose from 2mm (get out the microscope) - 54mm (old toy soldier size - not bad for the small skirmish, but pricey). The current fashion is for 28mm, but some of the smaller scales can give a better impression for bigger battles. Don't necessarily get hung up on popular manufacturers; don't deride the 'good old fashioned' 1/72 scale as this is a cheap way into the hobby.
Thanks very much, some great advice there 👍
Great video I'm just starting ancients coming from bolt action and I agree, so far I haven't spent alot or acquired alot to get going.
Two games I'd recommend which I think you would like #1 middle earth strategy battle game. Quite good fun
And #2 marvel crisis made by the legion guys it's a great game really became my number 1 very quickly. If you like marvel of coarse.
I do enjoy MESBG, I need to play more. Haven't tried Crisis Protocol yet as I think it will lead to alot of money being spent 😅
The starter box is pretty good value gives you ten hero's. I was thinking the same but you don't have to buy any rules or supplements only the characters you want
@@hobbyspotnz2833 don't tempt me 😅 I have seen some of the models and they are stunning
This was so good
Thank you 👍
Good to hear you're continuing the 1st crusade games! It's maybe my favorite time in medieval history! I have recently started painting samurais and I'm considering starting a battle report on the battle of sekigahara. I can't wait to see those Byzantines of yours!! :)
I would love to see that. I have had an interest in that battle ever since I got Kessen on the PS2 when it came out 😁👍 thanks for watching my friend
@@7thson726 You're my favorite streamer on historical wargaming and the one who actually got me into it! Can't wait for your next battle report!
@@pavloskonstantinidis4038 thanks 😁 got one coming soon 👍
Good work on this. Why do we play historical wargames? Because we love it, that’s why. Scale, rules, size of action, historical periods, there is so much to work with who needs fantasy or Sc-Fi is a more interesting question, when we have the whole of human history to game in? And, that to decry fantasy and sci-Fi, if people want to do that crack on and enjoy, it’s just game at the end of day.
Cheers, glad you liked it. Absolutely, no point in doing something if you're not passionate about it 👍😁
This is how you go about explaining historical wargaming and why you are into it. I very much appreciate not being accused of being a Nazi or believing in their ideology because I fancy their vehicles and such and want to build models of them and paint them. History is very important to me. I have always loved history and when I discovered wargaming it was a natural place for me to start. I like a variety of periods and I find that when I start out on a project it makes me do research and that is the appeal there. I also find that painting these miniatures or building these model kits is a great way to honor the past. That is something warhammer players who only dwell in the Games workshop bubble will never understand. I feel the people making the videos that pretty much insulted a great number of historical wargamers are doing so to get attention for some warped reason. All I can say is if a channel/individual accused me of being a Nazi or any number of things from history because I paint this or collect that is to simply sit and spin. I don't have tolerance for that crap and quite frankly only individuals of low intelligence (looking at you Guy) use these buzzwords floating about society now to start labeling people whatever they want so they have a reason to insult them. At any rate nice video sorry for the rant.
To be fair, if any game has a problem with Neo-Nazis and such being attracted to it, it's really Warhammer 40K, ironically enough.
@@rangda_prime I can believe that. I feel it is extremely uncalled for to call someone a Nazi simply for collecting and painting models and miniatures of the Germans in ww2. I do feel that 40k players mostly have their heads up their rears but that is another issue. I think Guy is flat out an ignorant individual who isn't worth anymore of my time.
Thanks for taking the time to watch the video and then comment 👍
@@7thson726 You're quite welcome.
Brilliant video - some of the other videos out there on this topic alarmed me - they seem to present an either/or viewpoint akin to cancel culture, which is, in my opinion, as dangerous as the things they cancel. This video presented a mature and passionate viewpoint; a credit to historical gamers. Thank you.
Really appreciate that, thank you 👍🙂
Could you elaborate? I'm assuming you're referring to the sort of elitism some historical gamers seem to have (unfortunately a stereotype of us all now :/)
For new players I would suggest trying out one of the Commands and Colours games like samurai battles or ancients. You get everything you need in the box and can dip your toes into wargaming without the daunting task of needing to collect and paint minis from scratch.
Another nice beginner rules system os One Hour Wargames, it even has a little preamble about how to get into wargaming and finding minis. The rules are simple to learn and dont require too many minis (3-6 units a side). The rules encompass several periods so new players can dip their toes into what they find most interesting.
I haven't played any of the Paper boys games, but imagine that these could be a cheap way to get into historical wargaming as well. After all, people who are completely new to the hobby most likely don't have friends who already play which they can borrow minis from. In that case, starting might be extra daunting since you'll need to collect two armies. Being able to bang out some paper minis extra quick and getting some games in might give enough early dopamine to take the plunge and collect 3D minis.
Another set of excellent suggestions, as I scroll through the comments the need for a written list of all these systems 👍
Thanks for taking the time to comment
I played a bit of 40k when I was about 14 but then like this man I saw the light of historical wargaming and now I'm a gentleman doing a gentleman's hobby and not a total dork
I would still be up for playing 40k but it would be way down the list. So many games so little time 😁
Very nice video 😊👍🏻
Thank you 👍
Very useful and interesting video, Martin 👍. I’m not sure I’ve ever considered myself a particular type of gamer, just a gamer 😀. Currently I’m playing lots of historical games, but still interested in all sort of fantasy and sci-fi stories as well.
It's funny the way we decide to distinguish ourselves from other parts of the hobby. I guess it's just that need for some level of autonomy 👍 glad you enjoyed it
Great video that demonstrates how positive this hobby can be regardless of whether its historical or fantasy/scifi. I play both historical and scifi, I enjoy the research and historical battles that ask ‘what if?’, how changing some of the historical context might have changed the outcome of the battle. I also enjoy the idea of Imaginations (though mainly for scifi, although the different nations are often inspired by a historical nation (I have one space fleet inspired by the Italian Warring states!)). I do think that you can choose to avoid certain historical periods or events if they make you uncomfortable, but that’s my choice not something I have the right to impose on others (For example, I avoid the whole Pony Wars thing as I live in an area with many first nations who still have significant challenges dealing with the long term fallout of colonialism so for me it just feels far too current and real. I can appreciate someone from Scunthorpe not have the same day to day lived experience however). Once again, great reasoned and positive perspective on Historical Wargaming
Thanks so much for taking the time to comment. Really well set out and reasoned 👍
Thanks for this. As an old-school WHFB player who is wondering whether Warhammer the Old World is really worth getting into, or if there's anything 'better', this video is very interesting, but one big topic is left undiscussed: how does historical wargaming compare to warhammer for example when it comes to diversity of units and also rules. My big concern is that it will all be rather bland, because it must be realistic. For example, the difference between a pict and a roman legionary might be as big as i can imagine, but i will never get close to the diversity in units and rules and stats that you can think of in fantasy. So are all units very similar in historical gameing, and isn't that a bit ... boring? And if so, where does the excitement come from in its gameplay? In fantasy a large beast or dragon or extremely decked out elite unit might be very exciting to play (against), what could compare to that, other than the exceptional war elephant? Or how do the rules compare, are the rules more simple as well (as i assume the units are)? All these things are a total unknown to someone who only knows fantasy wargaming, but i'd love to know all this, it would make for a very interesting video i reckon
So firstly sorry for the delay in responding - I wanted to take some time to think about this as I think it's a great set of questions and I wanted to give it some thought. Also I think this would make a good topic for a video, and probably a section on the live stream.
Regarding diversity of units, this is obviously hard to argue. Fantasy is only limited by your imagination, I can't argue that it's not awesome seeing a dragon for example smashing into a unit. However, historical wargaming, at least with the majority of the games I play, deals with things on a larger level. So in Warhammer for example, the individual soldier matters, a high elf spearmen for example has its own stats, whereas in Historical, it's the unit that has the stats, it generally doesn't matter how many people are in it. Also, when it comes to diversity I would say you are both right, but also wrong, it totally depends on what you're doing, which I realise is an unoriginal answer.
So take the Wars of the Roses.as it's a set of civil wars in Britain the armies "look" similar as they have the same troop types, the flavour comes from the characters and the abilities that they confer on their units. However take the first crusade which I'm currently playing, the armies are incredibly diverse, the crusaders have knights, pilgrims, men at arms, archers mercenaries, warrior orders, even a unit of lunatics who were allegedly cannibals led by a knight with a scythe 😅 on the other side you have fast moving light cavalry archers, fanatical lunatics, chaps with siphon flamethrowers and greek fire grenades, chaps riding camels, assassins (possibly😂) and devices that were used by castle defenders to pluck wounded enemies from the bottom of castle walls and drag them up the walls where they could be displayed. All this matched with characters like Bohemond of Antioch, Kilij Arslan and others makes it a great setting for games.
Having said all this though I do feel that historicals work best when playing with passionate people whose love for the game breaks through some of the seemingly "dull" stuff.
I play fantasy, sci fi and historicals as they all scratch a different itch for me. If it would help illustrate how exciting the games can be id certainly recommend checking out some of the 1st Crusade games on the channel or the WOTR ones (especially the three siege games 😁)
I may have gone off on a tangent here but I hope that helps explain it a little.
I would certainly like to explore this further so I may well do a video discussing it 😁😅 hope you have a great weekend
@@7thson726 thanks a lot for your incredibly extensive answer, it does shed some light on the whole matter, although i must admit my preconceptions would take some hard proof to overturn haha. I will definitely check out some 1st crusade and WOTR games! And i'm glad to hear you think it's a good idea for a video, i really i'd be a whole new niche of video to compare games and gaming systems to eachother, which attracts people from both sides and broadens everyone's horizon