Just discovered the channel as I've been looking at getting into Saga. Sounds like your journey has been very similar to mine and gauging from your reference points we must be similar age's (1982). When you say that you live in Bury is that Bury St Edmunds?
@@7thson726 o far out, you're just down the road from me as I live just south of Norwich. Do you know of any local groups that play Saga or host events?
@@jasonmountain68 ah nice one, not sure about Norwich but here in Bury there is a club that meets every other Sat from 3 - 10 pm and play all sorts, sure Saga would find some players 👍
Fantastic video Martin, my journey into historic wargaming was similar to yours, but started ten years earlier 😂 I play historic, scifi and fantasy games now. I enjoy the research when i get into a new historic period. And through gaming over many years i have made some fantastic friends and met many interesting folk who share a passion for the hobby.
Cheers mate, sounds like the best of all outcomes 👍 there are fantastic people in the hobby and I've made loads of mates I would never had the chance to without it 🙂
That Midwinter video actually made me unsubscribe from his channel. Sad but I thought that video was complete nonsense and there was no need for him to politicise historic wargaming in such a negative way.
Sounds very similar sorry this comment is so late I've only just got back into it after a year break due to life and work, now I found this looks like be watching you more often now.
Well said and so many things that could come out of my mouth....I have a similar TT life. :) The only point we might differ; I do kind of like removing casualities. ;)
I have been playing Historical War-games since 1974, and I enjoy the games, the painting and research, of the miniatures, and the comradery, that you get with playing games with friends, over such a long time, I have done many periods, but I always go back to Napoleonic, and Seven Years War, mainly in 15/18mm, most of my friends, have gone to 28mm, as their eye site is not as it was. I am still very interested in this hobby, and will only stop, when the nails get put in the lid...!!
Wargaming is a "lab" for me when doing a deep dive on reading about operation typhoon, for example. When if i give the germans another week of good weather before the mud? I enjoy it and adds to my reading experience.
Great video! Exactly what I was looking for. Think I may bust out my Silver Bayonet and do some quasi historical. I also have a few miniatures I can finish for Clash of Spears. Then I’ll ask some friends to try out both games. I am looking at Hail Caesar for my mass battle game. imperial Rome vs Gauls probably.
A great video that articulates superbly what I believe a lot of people in this hobby are thinking. You have set out perfectly why this is a hobby like no other, and brings joy to so many of us. I can only speak for myself, but the recent video by a prominent TH-camr that has set off all this discussion has annoyed many people on the historical wargaming side of this hobby. What I found most annoying is that it was just a lazy take on historical wargaming. No attempt was made to try and understand an aspect of miniature wargaming that midwinter minis was unfamiliar with. Instead, it went straight to, I don't understand it, so it must be bad, and those that disagree with me must be bad people.That is a poor way to approach any debate. What you have done, I think, is a brilliant video setting out why historical wargaming is a focus for good and why so many of us have devoted so much of our spare time to this amazing hobby.
"Playing as the Germans it was never really a problem till the Americans and the British ganged up on me.. " so historically accurate apart from the omission of the Soviets then? :D
Great video. Another inexpensive way of trying historical games is smaller scales, for example 10mm. Manufacturers like Lancer and Pendraken sell a complete army pack. Buy one without a distinctive uniform so any era before 1650, divide it between two friends, paint it, play.
Yes I'm addicted, I assume you have played kingmaker? I'm trying to limit myself to set earas but I'm a sucker 4 anything imagantive, couloufull and replayable
Yeah, I watched the Midwinter video and it was complete nonsense. I sort of feel like historical wargaming has bad branding. It's always the "H" word. You don't really see that in other entertainment mediums. Like, I might feel like playing a strategy game but don't want it to have orks and dragons, so I play Total War. Or Age of Empires. And those are all lumped into "strategy" alongside scifi and fantasy. They don't sell it as "historical." Same with movies. Saving Private Ryan is a war movie. It's not "the most historical history movie in all of history." And if you were to bring a kid who plays space soldiers to a wargaming convention, most everyone is going to try and convert them to historicals, but they go about it all, "this battle actually happened and here is a good history book on it." But that's making historical gaming sound like homework to that kid. He's playing mobile games on his phone at that point. Which is why I like your channel because you do two things. First, you don't take history so seriously and make up your own cool battles. Second, you paint your miniatures to a high tabletop standard that will inspire. I'd like to think if I was a 14 year old kid, I'd buy some Hail Caesar after watching this channel.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video 😁 thanks for taking the time to comment 👍 I feel that Historicals do suffer from a bit of a pre conception of crunchy, fusty rules with slow moving games and stuffy older players who care more about uniforms than fun. However it's our responsibility as a community to show that's not the case, that's the way to bring more people to our part of the hobby which is still part of the wider Wargaming hobby 👍
For me historical gaming, modelling/painting and historical research are three prongs of the same fork. It’s been a lifelong obsession since the age of six, and also a gateway drug to history and travel, since no matter the period or continent, there’s always a new conflict to discover, a new place to visit and a new culture to learn about. Though I love sci-fi and fantasy, I’ve never been tempted to wargame them. What would be the point? No real depth to them, no reality to simulate, nothing new to research, nowhere concrete to visit. As for best game to start, hands down it’s got to be Sharp Practice, probably Napoleonic in 15/18mm, as there’s just so much available, both minis and books, and you don’t need a lot of figures.
There are bad elements in all areas of table-top gaming, no one aspect of the hobby is free from utter plonkers who have some seriously ignorant viewpoints, or lack social skills or are rivet counters. A good introduction to wargaming and gives a flavour of historical gaming I'd recommend are Gangs of Rome, skirmish ancient gang warfare, and another is 02 Hundred Hours.
Secondary school, A level… translate for a Yank please. Great video and thank you I believe I know which video this was in response too and that disappointed me greatly.
No problem, secondary school is for ages 12-16 then A levels is what we call college which you go to from 16 - 18 (normally unless you go get a job or have an apprenticeship somewhere) and then you'd go to university or start work 🙂 more or less anyway Glad you enjoyed the video
I do love your first crusade army. I don't play historical wargames myself but I do collect the figures from a lot of these ranges and use them for my 3rd edition warhammer games.
As someone who started wargaming in 1971, I am so glad to see the hobby carrying on to the next generation. Also: Nice to see your face (I had been seeing your wife's face on screen during your Napoleonic videos, but only heard your voice). You are absolutely right to want to leave the units on the board as long as possible (and not remove casualties). I enjoy Napoleonics, and look forward to more of your Black Powder videos.
Who knew someone could just go on the internet and be positive about what they like instead of perpetuating the latest cycle of outrage! Maybe it will catch on.
Great video man! If you want to get back into fantasy, you should have a look at one page rules. My mate and I checked it out recently and loved it. It's what Age of Sigmar could've been if the bloat hadn't come back
Nicely done mate. I am biased but I’d add to the games to try list with Sharp Practice. One box of Perry Minis or Warlord figures, and you have all the troops you need
Thanks for this. As an old-school WHFB player who is wondering whether Warhammer the Old World is really worth getting into, or if there's anything 'better', this video is very interesting, but one big topic is left undiscussed: how does historical wargaming compare to warhammer for example when it comes to diversity of units and also rules. My big concern is that it will all be rather bland, because it must be realistic. For example, the difference between a pict and a roman legionary might be as big as i can imagine, but i will never get close to the diversity in units and rules and stats that you can think of in fantasy. So are all units very similar in historical gameing, and isn't that a bit ... boring? And if so, where does the excitement come from in its gameplay? In fantasy a large beast or dragon or extremely decked out elite unit might be very exciting to play (against), what could compare to that, other than the exceptional war elephant? Or how do the rules compare, are the rules more simple as well (as i assume the units are)? All these things are a total unknown to someone who only knows fantasy wargaming, but i'd love to know all this, it would make for a very interesting video i reckon
So firstly sorry for the delay in responding - I wanted to take some time to think about this as I think it's a great set of questions and I wanted to give it some thought. Also I think this would make a good topic for a video, and probably a section on the live stream. Regarding diversity of units, this is obviously hard to argue. Fantasy is only limited by your imagination, I can't argue that it's not awesome seeing a dragon for example smashing into a unit. However, historical wargaming, at least with the majority of the games I play, deals with things on a larger level. So in Warhammer for example, the individual soldier matters, a high elf spearmen for example has its own stats, whereas in Historical, it's the unit that has the stats, it generally doesn't matter how many people are in it. Also, when it comes to diversity I would say you are both right, but also wrong, it totally depends on what you're doing, which I realise is an unoriginal answer. So take the Wars of the Roses.as it's a set of civil wars in Britain the armies "look" similar as they have the same troop types, the flavour comes from the characters and the abilities that they confer on their units. However take the first crusade which I'm currently playing, the armies are incredibly diverse, the crusaders have knights, pilgrims, men at arms, archers mercenaries, warrior orders, even a unit of lunatics who were allegedly cannibals led by a knight with a scythe 😅 on the other side you have fast moving light cavalry archers, fanatical lunatics, chaps with siphon flamethrowers and greek fire grenades, chaps riding camels, assassins (possibly😂) and devices that were used by castle defenders to pluck wounded enemies from the bottom of castle walls and drag them up the walls where they could be displayed. All this matched with characters like Bohemond of Antioch, Kilij Arslan and others makes it a great setting for games. Having said all this though I do feel that historicals work best when playing with passionate people whose love for the game breaks through some of the seemingly "dull" stuff. I play fantasy, sci fi and historicals as they all scratch a different itch for me. If it would help illustrate how exciting the games can be id certainly recommend checking out some of the 1st Crusade games on the channel or the WOTR ones (especially the three siege games 😁) I may have gone off on a tangent here but I hope that helps explain it a little. I would certainly like to explore this further so I may well do a video discussing it 😁😅 hope you have a great weekend
@@7thson726 thanks a lot for your incredibly extensive answer, it does shed some light on the whole matter, although i must admit my preconceptions would take some hard proof to overturn haha. I will definitely check out some 1st crusade and WOTR games! And i'm glad to hear you think it's a good idea for a video, i really i'd be a whole new niche of video to compare games and gaming systems to eachother, which attracts people from both sides and broadens everyone's horizon
Great video. I got into wargaming a couple of years ago, after my friend in America got me to play Flames of war over the internet which I enjoyed .He told me to find a club and join up. I found a club in Cambridge and thought that I would not just turn up so I sent them some emails but I didn't get any response so I thought sod it I would leave it. My mate asked how I got on I said I was going to bother but he kept on at me, so I found another club which was really local so I joined what a great bunch of guys made me so welcome. I then started buying rule books and figs. And a awesome site on you tube ( 7th Son ) who has been so very helpful to me on my quest of putting together a W.O.T.R army thank you Martin. I just wish that I started wargaming years ago. Sorry for my long story cheers Grant
That's awesome mate, I'm so glad you found like minded people, and I'm glad you found my words helpful, always happy to help when it comes to the WOTR 😁
Absolutely loved this video and sat rivetted to it... and I realy like your level headed attitude to your hobby (I have absolutely zero time for the curent trend of kill joys within the hobby). Been a gamer all my life (with a passionate love for solo as well). I guess over the last 45 years or so, I`ve gathered a pretty eclectic range of interests (and models for them all), from Samarai, Ancients, Medieval, Fantasy, Lord of the Rings (even Xena and Conan), Napoleonics (including Scxarlet Pimpernel narratie play), Alemo, War of Independance and French Indian War, ACW, D&D, WWI and WWII, Sci-fi, Star Wars, Wild West, and many many more... so yeah, I really do enjoy my hobby, and am amazingly fortunate to have a wonderful wife who shares the hobby right alongside with me. I`m not a fussy modeler/painter and often chuckle to myself and think... the ol`fellas like me who come from a golden, almost pioneering age of gaming... do their models get sneered at when they cart them along to the clubs to play with and shand UP against the modern trend of `perfection ` painting and (practically) pro standard. Are their "Wargame standard" laughed out of the club, or do their models look out of place? That`s one of the joys of solo... I only have to please myself and have noone to tell me whats wrogn or right hehe.
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Really pleased you enjoyed the video and thanks for sharing your story. There have been some great hobby journeys in the comments here 👍😁
interesting storytelling. Personally, I prefer only historical games, as if you are immersed in an era. But the more diverse the games, the better, everyone can choose to their liking. Great release mate! 👏
A lot of the joy of historical war gaming for me - comes with the research involved in getting the correct look for my figures .(though i'm not a button counter) which leads to other interesting Historical facts which l would never have known about . I get as much fun from painting my figs and seeing them on the war gaming table as l do actually playing. I'm lucky enough to have a big shed for the hobby and to have figures for many periods . For me l do not understand the negative views - what next ban chess? - one of the oldest war games in History. Keep playing guys and enjoy what you do and may your dice roll high (or low) unless your playing me lol
Really enjoyed the video! For me the research of particular conflict is a big part why I love historical wargaming... the tactics, uniforms, weapons, battles, interesting characters. That said, my mind still wanders from time to time into some grimdark places, which mostly aren't related to GW (Turnip28, Planet 28, etc.). I know that this video was probably a consequence of an inner response to a particular video, and I do hope that many of folks that live in a GW bubble will see it, as I do consider it a nice introduction to historical wargaming for anyone with the slightest interest. BTW, I think rules/systems from Daniel Mersey could also serve as a nice intro level primers.
I completely feel you on Warhammer. Top tier lore and setting, but the minis are outrageously priced and the current rules look… complicated. I almost got back into it, but I think I’ll stick with historical/ 15mm fantasy.
I know exactly what you mean, I keep hovering on pushing the button on some 30k stuff but always back off at the last minute 😅 glad you liked the video 👍
Nicely put. All wargaming is deeply personal. I enjoy reading about the history of different ages, both social and military, and wargaming is a good way to mix that with my joy of building and painting models.
Well said. I used to play Warhammer Fantasy in the 90s and early 2000's (4th and 5th, little bit of 6th). I've recently got into historical wargaming after years of reading about history and it's so much fun. There is a great club with a great bunch of lads. No one takes the history too seriously, it's all just fun and everyone has a real passion for history.
Started wargaming with Napoleonics as a ten year old.(1970). Alongside of this, loved WW2 and skirmish games. Then I discovered Tolkien and became an avid fantasy gamer. Years later, and I have come full circle with Napoleonics again, only it's 18mm this time. It's like going out with your first love again (except less disappointing).😅
Brilliant video - some of the other videos out there on this topic alarmed me - they seem to present an either/or viewpoint akin to cancel culture, which is, in my opinion, as dangerous as the things they cancel. This video presented a mature and passionate viewpoint; a credit to historical gamers. Thank you.
Could you elaborate? I'm assuming you're referring to the sort of elitism some historical gamers seem to have (unfortunately a stereotype of us all now :/)
Great video and your minis show that you can get quite spectacle without resorting to fantasy. As for what games to get when starting out: SAGA - this one is a bit divisive in the community depending on taste. Its mechanics resemble those of board games using the battle board to give your units different abilities from turn to turn. Either you'll like this or not so much. Personally I like my games to be tactical rather than rely on gimmicks so I've avoided SAGA. Hail Caesar - a good game but it has some very Rick Priestly things in it with lots of random factors which can turn people off. Both the Command and the Morale system has huge RNG swings which can basically remove your army from the game without you having any ability to affect it. I'd recommend Swordpoint by Gripping Beast, Tercios by Liber Militum, Comitatus or Tree of Battles by Legio Wargames as alternatives to Hail Caesar. For the old school but greatly stream lined and improved Warhammer historical experience, check out War and Conquest by Scarab Miniatures. For skirmishes of all sorts, look no further than the family of Lion Rampant and its many spin offs by Osprey Publishing. The Rampant engine is a truly robust, simple and versatile one, producing great games with a smaller amount of minis. The variants cover everything from Vikings to Renaissance to Horse and Shot to 19th century games. And there are many fan made variants, for example for the Greek, Roman and Chariot periods.
Some excellent points, I think Saga is a good transitional game when coming from a Fantasy/sci fi background as it has those "gimmicky" elements. Totally agree about the Osprey blue books. Thanks for taking the time to put all that down. The list grows 😁👍
Fantastic video Martin, totally agree with everything you said. Another reason I like historical gaming is for the what ifs of history, and trying to change the outcome of a certain period or battle on the tabletop. I also love doing the research into what ever army or period I’m doing
Really interesting and in-depth video about your personal journey into historical wargaming. Also I love how you went into detail about the transition from Warhammer/sci-fi to historical, which resonates with me a lot as I'm currently switching over from WH 40K to more historical games too. After seeing the other videos you mentioned online, this is by far the most mature and interesting take on why you/we play historical wargames. Thank you for your great content as always!
Thanks very much. Being positive is the best way to get people to try new things. Plenty of Hail Caesar and Saga here on the channel, hope you enjoy looking into it 👍 give me a shout if I can help at all
Great video Martin. I started with D and D then moved into Airfix Napoleonic wargaming having been given the book "the Wargame" by Donald Featherstone. I then , like you , kind of drifted away while at University but came back through GW and Warhammer which I played for many years till they pulled the plug on it. I then got into Infinity and Saga and Bolt action. Like you I studied History and love the research side of the hobby. I too would recommend Saga as a good entry point game. Dead man's hand is a fantastic system and there's a new game "what a Cowboy" just come out that I'm keen to try. Thanks for all your hard work putting out such excellent content. See you at Crackcon!
Thanks buddy glad you enjoyed it 👍 I had to leave TTRPGs out of the video otherwise it would have been 3 hours long, I can go on and on about campaigns, house rules and minis for them for ages 😅
Great vid, so true, I actually don't play much historical, I am still addicted to warhammer. But the video you reference made me pull my hair out, when I do play historical with a friend of mine we just play who we want! (the same as you do with warhammer!) Commenting as my Grandfather was also at Arnhem; captured, survived.
Cracking video that manages to stay positive throughout! I perfect not a response to that video from those who will not be named but also an excellent general video on historical wargaming and how there can be something for anyone!
Really pleased you like it, wanted to stay positive throughout as that's why I enjoy the hobby, if it becomes to down or negative then what's the point .. then it's like work 😅
My original experience with wargaming was rather formal as I was put in a military, boarding school at age 7 through to 18. Initially we just used Crimean War figures to learn drill field maneuvers and basic tactical terms but in junior high school (7th & 8th level classes) we began learning platoon & squad level field tactics. In high school things graduated to the grand strategy level with units being reduced to board game cardboard chits and formal education & hands on artillery education. After graduating, like you, my money went to simply surviving since my family disowned me for VERY publicly opposing the Vietnam War, after all the money and effort they'd put into my private school education and a congressional appointment to one of the military academies. But I never lost my love of military history or miniatures. I was drafted and saw the worst of war's reality. When I got back I discovered Ral Partha & Tom Mier's gorgeous fantasy and historical sculpts and a free rules set from them as well and I was off. Painting the figures gave me great peace and the fantasy battles between medieval lord or Tolkien's monsters gave me great fun and were far away from machine guns & mortar attacks. In the 90's I connected with a club & eventually got a job at a game shop & my collection exploded. I'm still working on figures I got there 10 or 12 years ago. I can't do 20th century, especially tank warfare, I lost too many friends in that reality, it makes me anxious and I don't sleep well. Napoleonics has got it's claws into me and I can't stop collecting & painting all those crazy bright uniforms & game tactics. The history is fascinating and the "What Ifs" infinite on both a gaming and history level. This hobby has helped me through some of the worst times in my life and crowned some of the best with joy. I love it. Hugs !
Wow, thank you for sharing that. What a journey, it's amazing all the stories I've now heard off the back of this video and so how many of us came to the hobby for similar reasons but from totally different backgrounds 👍 thanks for taking the time to comment
"My game, my rules and my table" - absoutely correct; and no one has the right to say you can't do that or to criticise you (or anyone else) for engaging in a hobby that you enjoy and which harms no one. I found this video while searching for painting tips for WotR figures as I'm starting to build a retinue for Never Mind the Billhooks; and I've just subscribed after watching. Thanks for sharing an interesting and informative insight into why you enjoy this hobby. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Really appreciate you taking the time to comment and glad you enjoyed the video. Absolutely, I'll play the way that makes the most sense and seems the most fun 👍
Nice video !I started with D&D but especially loved painting the miniatures. Went into North American War of 1812 and then moved on to HYW. Love the content! Cheers from Canada Bob
Haha slightly 😅 if people are talking about historical gaming for once I didn't want it to be all negative and felt I could just add my experience of the hobby so people could see a positive. By next weekend everyone will have forgotten historical gaming is a thing and moved on 😁
@7th Son That's what I'm hoping for I did sound an alarm in the last Holy Diver Show I got 3 flags and the one for nudity stuck. And that was before midwinter released their video 👻😵💫
Great video,i thought you covered things really well,personnally ive liked historical since i was a wee boy in the mid 70's enjoying the original airfix plastic figures,romans and britons were a big favourite.As i got older i got into d+d/fantasy and sci fi,although not a wargame as such, i really liked blood bowl.I like doing the research for historical games as i like history in general but i dont always stick to the historical outcome,make up my own scenario's too,like others im big on the "what if?" aspect.
The real problem of this discussion is that it has created a false narrative that people have to justify themselves and their interests against baseless accusations and presumption.
For new players I would suggest trying out one of the Commands and Colours games like samurai battles or ancients. You get everything you need in the box and can dip your toes into wargaming without the daunting task of needing to collect and paint minis from scratch. Another nice beginner rules system os One Hour Wargames, it even has a little preamble about how to get into wargaming and finding minis. The rules are simple to learn and dont require too many minis (3-6 units a side). The rules encompass several periods so new players can dip their toes into what they find most interesting. I haven't played any of the Paper boys games, but imagine that these could be a cheap way to get into historical wargaming as well. After all, people who are completely new to the hobby most likely don't have friends who already play which they can borrow minis from. In that case, starting might be extra daunting since you'll need to collect two armies. Being able to bang out some paper minis extra quick and getting some games in might give enough early dopamine to take the plunge and collect 3D minis.
Another set of excellent suggestions, as I scroll through the comments the need for a written list of all these systems 👍 Thanks for taking the time to comment
Very nice video. Going to give Warcry a go tonight, wish me luck! I got into wargaming via Terry Wise' introduction to wargaming using my older brother's Airfix WW2 and ACW collection, expanding into ancients and Napoleonic, then onto citadel miniatures, Dwarfs! Then back to historical and metals 15mm renaissance and Napoleonic. To make games cheaper to get into, we used card bases to practice with to see if we liked a game. Then bought the army if we did. I really enjoy the research and the painting, especially if the conflict is very niche/rare/obscure. Again great video, cannot wait for a hobby update, I need some motivation to complete my Byzantines over the thousand other projects on the go. Oh and be aware GW epic Horus Heresy is on it's way.....
@@7thson726 WC was a lot of fun, very simple to pick up, we played the original one as forgot about reactions which are in the new editon and will make it much more fun!
Great video I'm just starting ancients coming from bolt action and I agree, so far I haven't spent alot or acquired alot to get going. Two games I'd recommend which I think you would like #1 middle earth strategy battle game. Quite good fun And #2 marvel crisis made by the legion guys it's a great game really became my number 1 very quickly. If you like marvel of coarse.
The starter box is pretty good value gives you ten hero's. I was thinking the same but you don't have to buy any rules or supplements only the characters you want
Love the video. As I not done wargameing as long as you have I started about 5 years ago when I went to a modelling show and they had a wild west show in 28mm it's was great fun so when I went to a wargame event as I was on a budget thay had big bags of plans Indians going cheap so I was happy as the person who got me in to it gave me a lod of the 7th cavalry he did not want and now thanks to the Perry's boxes set of ACW plus bolt action as well that's about my historical background. 👍👍🤠🤠
As someone who was first introduced to Historical Wargaming at the age of 4 (English Civil War, Ancient, Napoleonic as well as WW1 and WW2), I'm 51 now. I started out using the Rules my Dad used in the 70's moved on to 40k and GW games, as well as Rouge Trooper and Chainsaw Warrior. I would say go for a Box set in a genre that interests you. and just have fun and see where the journey takes you. Brilliant Video as well sir.
As a cheap intro to Ancient and Mediaeval gaming, DBA is pretty good. The rules and lists are all in one book, and the armies are small enough that you won't break the bank. Most people play with 15mm or 6mm figures, but there's no reason you can't use larger figures. With the ranges of 1/72 plastic figures now available, it's possible to get an army very cheaply.
My road to historical gaming started out with D&D. I was painting a lot of minis for that and a few other roleplaying games (and a LOT of Tamiya 1/35 scale tanks and stuff), when afriend mentioned Warhammer Fantasy Battles. So I could play a game with all my minis instead of letting them collect dust! Shortly after that Rogue Trader came out and we began to branch out into scifi. I played a lot of both games thru all their editions until 7th Edition 40k (also around the time that the Old World ended). I REALLY disliked 7th Ed 40k and stopped playing GW games altogether (aside from the occaisional attempt to revive a Mordheim campaign). A couple of years prior, a friend introduced me to a group who played 15mm Napoleonics weekly, and I got hooked. I had always been interested in British history, so I was looking forward to building a Brit army. Unfortunately, all the other major powers were very well represented (as well as one guy who had the entire Wuerttemburg army!), so I wound up with the 1813 Prussians since all the other armies were set up for post-1812. I found I actually enjoyed reading about the Prussian army in researching their uniforms and formatiions. Then came Bolt Action, LaSalle, Blucher, Cruel Seas, Blood Red Skies, and a host of others. My slogan became, "As long as I can push dice and throw lead I'm happy". I now play a lot of mostly skirmish games, withy the random big battle game thrown in. For Flames of War I started out with Soviets (I was a Russian transcriber in the Army and learned to speak and read/write the language) so I could paint my own 'patriotic' slogans on my tanks. Thus I have a T-34/85 command tank proudly emblazoned "Where are Moose and Squirrel?" in Russian, among others. I also have a large German force so I can play folks who don't want to play on the Eastern front. I am not a fascist, a communist, or any other -ist ypu care to name. I JUST PLAY GAMES! Another good intro game is Little Wars TV's Ravenfeast. It, too is a Viking Age skirmish game, but the rules are free on their website. For the price it's a GREAT game.
I keep looking at Ravensfeast, definitely one I want to try and may indeed use for my mini Maldon project. My mate showed me Blucher and that's another one I'd definitely like to check out. Some great games on that list 👍🙂
Great game Saga, I seem to play Age of Vikings more than anything. Lots of nice looking armies to collect in AOC and loads of companies that make minis for them, good choice 👍
Outstanding video! For games that are a unit on a base, try Impetus. For skirmish and larger battles try the various rules by Ganesha Games. For a great game with an average of 30 miniatures in an _army_, De Bellis Antiquitatus (DBA) by Phil Barker of Wargames Research Group (WRG) fame one of the Grandads (in his 90's and still active) of Miniatures Wargaming (Rick Priestly started with WRG 4th edition rules!).
Good video, but I would like to add Muskets and Tomahawks and the 2 additions, Lion rampant and Dragon rampant and even Oathmark. All are skirmish games with a reasonable model count. You can start an English 100year war army with 1 Perry box, for instance, 4 units at 24 points, 36 figures.
Thanks 👍 I did think about M&T but I thought that to a player who is coming from a GW mind set something more familiar would be step one. Don't get me wrong I love M&T, it's one of my favourite systems but I see it as a good second step, so a bit like - 40K > Lion Rampant > M&T 👍
Welcome aboard, thanks for taking the time to comment. This is the good things about the hobby, there is always way more to discover, also, that's what makes it expensive 😅😁
Well done! A good way to confront the misinformation sometimes being provided elsewhere. Also, a good game for beginners with a relatively low entry cost could be Lion Rampant. Thanks for the quality of your content, congrats!😎👍
I started writing and it turned into a dissertation. The short version. Mid Winter Mini's in all innocence asked a stupid question out of naivety and genuine ignorance and people have deliberately misinterpreted it. I game all sorts of different military war games but have two projects on the go at the moment. To recreate the battle of Allam El Haifa, Monty's first desert victory over Rommel. I know a British victory so it should not be spoken of. The second project is a clash between a US Marine Regt and a Mongol Tumen. About 1200 men v 10,000. A muppet proposed it on a video and said the Marines would bottle it. Of course they would because he took everything off them and all they had was bad language to fight back with. But though it is technically fantasy, I wanted to game it with all the weapons the Marines would have at Regimental level except, air power, heavy artillery and AFV 's. Because with that stuff it is a done deal, (See the anime The Gate). And I got news for people, if a super sonic round does not penetrate Marine body armour, the arrows from a horse bow wont.
Excellent video. The other video in question was laughable. I also started with 40K and WHFB but moved over to historicals. Love the research and reading through a period. Currently trying to decide if I should start a project for either the Baron's War or War of the Roses. Both very tempting. And my samurai have a lot waiting for attention
Started with Heroquest for me, yep same with me for uni, and yeah I'm now looking at historicals. The recent MWM video has somewhat triggered the FU gland in my brain though so may have to play Germans 😂
Hi Martin Great video, it was your battle reports that got me back into Napoleonic war gaming again. Haven’t done it for about 20 years, I’m trying very hard not to go into the war of the roses, but you are making it very hard😂. Keep up the great work.
Good work on this. Why do we play historical wargames? Because we love it, that’s why. Scale, rules, size of action, historical periods, there is so much to work with who needs fantasy or Sc-Fi is a more interesting question, when we have the whole of human history to game in? And, that to decry fantasy and sci-Fi, if people want to do that crack on and enjoy, it’s just game at the end of day.
Really positive video and a great way to address the slightly cack handed video that is definitely unlike that content creator I imagine prompted this. I generally play GW games but have recently started playing Barons War and love the content you have on this channel, despite not currently playing these games. Hope someone reaches out and invites the content creator to a historical war games club to show what it’s all about.
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This is how you do a video talking about Historical wargames! Great job!
Glad you like it buddy 👍😁
Just discovered the channel as I've been looking at getting into Saga. Sounds like your journey has been very similar to mine and gauging from your reference points we must be similar age's (1982). When you say that you live in Bury is that Bury St Edmunds?
Hi there, thanks for taking the time to comment, sounds similar, 84 for me, and yeah it's Bury St Edmunds 👍
@@7thson726 o far out, you're just down the road from me as I live just south of Norwich. Do you know of any local groups that play Saga or host events?
@@jasonmountain68 ah nice one, not sure about Norwich but here in Bury there is a club that meets every other Sat from 3 - 10 pm and play all sorts, sure Saga would find some players 👍
@@7thson726 I think I know the one, went there a long time ago to play Warmachine.
Fantastic video Martin, my journey into historic wargaming was similar to yours, but started ten years earlier 😂
I play historic, scifi and fantasy games now.
I enjoy the research when i get into a new historic period. And through gaming over many years i have made some fantastic friends and met many interesting folk who share a passion for the hobby.
Cheers mate, sounds like the best of all outcomes 👍 there are fantastic people in the hobby and I've made loads of mates I would never had the chance to without it 🙂
That Midwinter video actually made me unsubscribe from his channel. Sad but I thought that video was complete nonsense and there was no need for him to politicise historic wargaming in such a negative way.
This seems to be a common response I have seen
Anyone who doesn't like points systems is OK with me. Enjoyed the video.
Absolutely 👍😁 glad you enjoyed it
Sounds very similar sorry this comment is so late I've only just got back into it after a year break due to life and work, now I found this looks like be watching you more often now.
Thanks for watching and welcome aboard 👍
Well said and so many things that could come out of my mouth....I have a similar TT life. :) The only point we might differ; I do kind of like removing casualities. ;)
Haha I think we can let that one lie 😁 thanks for watching and taking the time to comment, glad you enjoyed the video
I have been playing Historical War-games since 1974, and I enjoy the games, the painting and research, of the miniatures, and the comradery, that you get with playing games with friends, over such a long time, I have done many periods, but I always go back to Napoleonic, and Seven Years War, mainly in 15/18mm, most of my friends, have gone to 28mm, as their eye site is not as it was. I am still very interested in this hobby, and will only stop, when the nails get put in the lid...!!
Amen, couldn't agree more. Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 👍
Wargaming is a "lab" for me when doing a deep dive on reading about operation typhoon, for example. When if i give the germans another week of good weather before the mud? I enjoy it and adds to my reading experience.
Great points, I feel very similar about the hobby 👍
Great video! Exactly what I was looking for. Think I may bust out my Silver Bayonet and do some quasi historical. I also have a few miniatures I can finish for Clash of Spears. Then I’ll ask some friends to try out both games. I am looking at Hail Caesar for my mass battle game. imperial Rome vs Gauls probably.
Awesome, thanks for watching and taking the time to comment. Hail Caesar works well for that for sure. I do keep meaning to try Silver Bayonet 👍
A great video that articulates superbly what I believe a lot of people in this hobby are thinking. You have set out perfectly why this is a hobby like no other, and brings joy to so many of us. I can only speak for myself, but the recent video by a prominent TH-camr that has set off all this discussion has annoyed many people on the historical wargaming side of this hobby.
What I found most annoying is that it was just a lazy take on historical wargaming. No attempt was made to try and understand an aspect of miniature wargaming that midwinter minis was unfamiliar with. Instead, it went straight to, I don't understand it, so it must be bad, and those that disagree with me must be bad people.That is a poor way to approach any debate.
What you have done, I think, is a brilliant video setting out why historical wargaming is a focus for good and why so many of us have devoted so much of our spare time to this amazing hobby.
Thank you buddy, really appreciate that 🙂👍
"Playing as the Germans it was never really a problem till the Americans and the British ganged up on me.. " so historically accurate apart from the omission of the Soviets then? :D
Essentially yes 😅
Great video. Another inexpensive way of trying historical games is smaller scales, for example 10mm. Manufacturers like Lancer and Pendraken sell a complete army pack. Buy one without a distinctive uniform so any era before 1650, divide it between two friends, paint it, play.
Thanks 👍 this is very true, easy to pick up a force in 10 or 6 mm and try a ruleset out first to see if you like it
Yes I'm addicted, I assume you have played kingmaker? I'm trying to limit myself to set earas but I'm a sucker 4 anything imagantive, couloufull and replayable
I have indeed 👍 I'm the same, there are a couple I haven't started yet but there are always plans in the back of the mind
Yeah, I watched the Midwinter video and it was complete nonsense. I sort of feel like historical wargaming has bad branding. It's always the "H" word. You don't really see that in other entertainment mediums. Like, I might feel like playing a strategy game but don't want it to have orks and dragons, so I play Total War. Or Age of Empires. And those are all lumped into "strategy" alongside scifi and fantasy. They don't sell it as "historical." Same with movies. Saving Private Ryan is a war movie. It's not "the most historical history movie in all of history." And if you were to bring a kid who plays space soldiers to a wargaming convention, most everyone is going to try and convert them to historicals, but they go about it all, "this battle actually happened and here is a good history book on it." But that's making historical gaming sound like homework to that kid. He's playing mobile games on his phone at that point. Which is why I like your channel because you do two things. First, you don't take history so seriously and make up your own cool battles. Second, you paint your miniatures to a high tabletop standard that will inspire. I'd like to think if I was a 14 year old kid, I'd buy some Hail Caesar after watching this channel.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video 😁 thanks for taking the time to comment 👍
I feel that Historicals do suffer from a bit of a pre conception of crunchy, fusty rules with slow moving games and stuffy older players who care more about uniforms than fun. However it's our responsibility as a community to show that's not the case, that's the way to bring more people to our part of the hobby which is still part of the wider Wargaming hobby 👍
For me historical gaming, modelling/painting and historical research are three prongs of the same fork. It’s been a lifelong obsession since the age of six, and also a gateway drug to history and travel, since no matter the period or continent, there’s always a new conflict to discover, a new place to visit and a new culture to learn about.
Though I love sci-fi and fantasy, I’ve never been tempted to wargame them. What would be the point? No real depth to them, no reality to simulate, nothing new to research, nowhere concrete to visit.
As for best game to start, hands down it’s got to be Sharp Practice, probably Napoleonic in 15/18mm, as there’s just so much available, both minis and books, and you don’t need a lot of figures.
Another good shout for Sharp Practice there, I really need to make a list 😁 thanks for watching 👍
There are bad elements in all areas of table-top gaming, no one aspect of the hobby is free from utter plonkers who have some seriously ignorant viewpoints, or lack social skills or are rivet counters.
A good introduction to wargaming and gives a flavour of historical gaming I'd recommend are Gangs of Rome, skirmish ancient gang warfare, and another is 02 Hundred Hours.
Thanks very much, thanks for taking the time to comment 😁👍
B-b-but MidWit Minis said if I play historical wargames, I have to play the *gulp* baddies!
😅
Really enjoyed this Martin, very nicely done. Mostly excellently positive as well. 🙂
Cheers mate, really pleased you enjoyed it 👍
Secondary school, A level… translate for a Yank please. Great video and thank you I believe I know which video this was in response too and that disappointed me greatly.
No problem, secondary school is for ages 12-16 then A levels is what we call college which you go to from 16 - 18 (normally unless you go get a job or have an apprenticeship somewhere) and then you'd go to university or start work 🙂 more or less anyway
Glad you enjoyed the video
I do love your first crusade army. I don't play historical wargames myself but I do collect the figures from a lot of these ranges and use them for my 3rd edition warhammer games.
Thanks, its nice to hear you like the project, I'm looking forward to getting it on the table soon 👍
If you are aware of the dark lore of 40K , I would hate to think what conclusions you could draw about 40K players?
I think Eisenhorn has one of the darkest storylines of any genre 👍
As someone who started wargaming in 1971, I am so glad to see the hobby carrying on to the next generation. Also: Nice to see your face (I had been seeing your wife's face on screen during your Napoleonic videos, but only heard your voice). You are absolutely right to want to leave the units on the board as long as possible (and not remove casualties). I enjoy Napoleonics, and look forward to more of your Black Powder videos.
I want my models to spend as long on there as possible 😅 not always possible with my rolling, especially when playing my wife 👍😁
He'd been seeing your wife 😳
@@DJRockford83 during the Napoleonic Battle reports 😁
Who knew someone could just go on the internet and be positive about what they like instead of perpetuating the latest cycle of outrage! Maybe it will catch on.
Haha very true, hopefully we can all keep positive and bring more people to the hobby 👍
Great video man! If you want to get back into fantasy, you should have a look at one page rules. My mate and I checked it out recently and loved it. It's what Age of Sigmar could've been if the bloat hadn't come back
I'll take a look thank you 😁
I started off with ww2 which was airfix now am just started a few months back battle of Waterloo form warlord games and am really getting in to this
That's a great way to get back into it 👍
Nicely done mate. I am biased but I’d add to the games to try list with Sharp Practice. One box of Perry Minis or Warlord figures, and you have all the troops you need
Absolutely, great shout, maybe a list is in order for the PCP. Beginner friendly historical games 😁
Excellent :-)
Thank you
I have never like midwinter minis. but from what im hearing besides the historical thing, no wonder i dont like him or his content.
There is a wide variety on here that's for sure, thanks for dropping in 👍
Me and my brother in law want to start with a historical wargame. What do you recommend to start with?
Is there a particular period you're interested in, like ancient Rome, American civil war, WWII?
Wargames Atlantic do some great STLs these days too.
They do, I try not to look at them otherwise I'll get lost down a hole 😅
Wargaming is a rich & wonderful hobby. Great vid m8.
Thanks buddy 👍
Thanks for this. As an old-school WHFB player who is wondering whether Warhammer the Old World is really worth getting into, or if there's anything 'better', this video is very interesting, but one big topic is left undiscussed: how does historical wargaming compare to warhammer for example when it comes to diversity of units and also rules. My big concern is that it will all be rather bland, because it must be realistic. For example, the difference between a pict and a roman legionary might be as big as i can imagine, but i will never get close to the diversity in units and rules and stats that you can think of in fantasy. So are all units very similar in historical gameing, and isn't that a bit ... boring? And if so, where does the excitement come from in its gameplay? In fantasy a large beast or dragon or extremely decked out elite unit might be very exciting to play (against), what could compare to that, other than the exceptional war elephant? Or how do the rules compare, are the rules more simple as well (as i assume the units are)? All these things are a total unknown to someone who only knows fantasy wargaming, but i'd love to know all this, it would make for a very interesting video i reckon
So firstly sorry for the delay in responding - I wanted to take some time to think about this as I think it's a great set of questions and I wanted to give it some thought. Also I think this would make a good topic for a video, and probably a section on the live stream.
Regarding diversity of units, this is obviously hard to argue. Fantasy is only limited by your imagination, I can't argue that it's not awesome seeing a dragon for example smashing into a unit. However, historical wargaming, at least with the majority of the games I play, deals with things on a larger level. So in Warhammer for example, the individual soldier matters, a high elf spearmen for example has its own stats, whereas in Historical, it's the unit that has the stats, it generally doesn't matter how many people are in it. Also, when it comes to diversity I would say you are both right, but also wrong, it totally depends on what you're doing, which I realise is an unoriginal answer.
So take the Wars of the Roses.as it's a set of civil wars in Britain the armies "look" similar as they have the same troop types, the flavour comes from the characters and the abilities that they confer on their units. However take the first crusade which I'm currently playing, the armies are incredibly diverse, the crusaders have knights, pilgrims, men at arms, archers mercenaries, warrior orders, even a unit of lunatics who were allegedly cannibals led by a knight with a scythe 😅 on the other side you have fast moving light cavalry archers, fanatical lunatics, chaps with siphon flamethrowers and greek fire grenades, chaps riding camels, assassins (possibly😂) and devices that were used by castle defenders to pluck wounded enemies from the bottom of castle walls and drag them up the walls where they could be displayed. All this matched with characters like Bohemond of Antioch, Kilij Arslan and others makes it a great setting for games.
Having said all this though I do feel that historicals work best when playing with passionate people whose love for the game breaks through some of the seemingly "dull" stuff.
I play fantasy, sci fi and historicals as they all scratch a different itch for me. If it would help illustrate how exciting the games can be id certainly recommend checking out some of the 1st Crusade games on the channel or the WOTR ones (especially the three siege games 😁)
I may have gone off on a tangent here but I hope that helps explain it a little.
I would certainly like to explore this further so I may well do a video discussing it 😁😅 hope you have a great weekend
@@7thson726 thanks a lot for your incredibly extensive answer, it does shed some light on the whole matter, although i must admit my preconceptions would take some hard proof to overturn haha. I will definitely check out some 1st crusade and WOTR games! And i'm glad to hear you think it's a good idea for a video, i really i'd be a whole new niche of video to compare games and gaming systems to eachother, which attracts people from both sides and broadens everyone's horizon
It sounds as if you would like "Matrix Games". I have never tried one myself.
I'll look into it 👍
@@7thson726 Chris Engel is the name of who invented them.
Great video. I got into wargaming a couple of years ago, after my friend in America got me to play Flames of war over the internet which I enjoyed .He told me to find a club and join up. I found a club in Cambridge and thought that I would not just turn up so I sent them some emails but I didn't get any response so I thought sod it I would leave it.
My mate asked how I got on I said I was going to bother but he kept on at me, so I found another club which was really local so I joined what a great bunch of guys made me so welcome. I then started buying rule books and figs. And a awesome site on you tube ( 7th Son ) who has been so very helpful to me on my quest of putting together a W.O.T.R army thank you Martin. I just wish that I started wargaming years ago. Sorry for my long story cheers Grant
That's awesome mate, I'm so glad you found like minded people, and I'm glad you found my words helpful, always happy to help when it comes to the WOTR 😁
Good video on the subject . For an ancients starter game you could try DBA , its easy then to expand the forces for games with more figures .
Thanks very much, I need to put a list together of these games I think haha 👍
Absolutely loved this video and sat rivetted to it... and I realy like your level headed attitude to your hobby (I have absolutely zero time for the curent trend of kill joys within the hobby). Been a gamer all my life (with a passionate love for solo as well). I guess over the last 45 years or so, I`ve gathered a pretty eclectic range of interests (and models for them all), from Samarai, Ancients, Medieval, Fantasy, Lord of the Rings (even Xena and Conan), Napoleonics (including Scxarlet Pimpernel narratie play), Alemo, War of Independance and French Indian War, ACW, D&D, WWI and WWII, Sci-fi, Star Wars, Wild West, and many many more... so yeah, I really do enjoy my hobby, and am amazingly fortunate to have a wonderful wife who shares the hobby right alongside with me. I`m not a fussy modeler/painter and often chuckle to myself and think... the ol`fellas like me who come from a golden, almost pioneering age of gaming... do their models get sneered at when they cart them along to the clubs to play with and shand UP against the modern trend of `perfection ` painting and (practically) pro standard. Are their "Wargame standard" laughed out of the club, or do their models look out of place? That`s one of the joys of solo... I only have to please myself and have noone to tell me whats wrogn or right hehe.
Scure the typos :-)
Thanks for taking the time to comment. Really pleased you enjoyed the video and thanks for sharing your story. There have been some great hobby journeys in the comments here 👍😁
interesting storytelling. Personally, I prefer only historical games, as if you are immersed in an era. But the more diverse the games, the better, everyone can choose to their liking. Great release mate! 👏
Really appreciate dude, take care of yourself 👍
A lot of the joy of historical war gaming for me - comes with the research involved in getting the correct look for my figures .(though i'm not a button counter) which leads to other interesting Historical facts which l would never have known about . I get as much fun from painting my figs and seeing them on the war gaming table as l do actually playing. I'm lucky enough to have a big shed for the hobby and to have figures for many periods . For me l do not understand the negative views - what next ban chess? - one of the oldest war games in History. Keep playing guys and enjoy what you do and may your dice roll high (or low) unless your playing me lol
Absolutely, we'll set out 👍
Your videos encourage me to finish painting my Black Powder 28mm, thanks!
Brilliant, and thank you as well for the supertanker 👍😁 which army are you painting for Black Powder?
@@7thson726 Pennisular British and French, almost finished the two starter boxes.
Really enjoyed the video! For me the research of particular conflict is a big part why I love historical wargaming... the tactics, uniforms, weapons, battles, interesting characters. That said, my mind still wanders from time to time into some grimdark places, which mostly aren't related to GW (Turnip28, Planet 28, etc.).
I know that this video was probably a consequence of an inner response to a particular video, and I do hope that many of folks that live in a GW bubble will see it, as I do consider it a nice introduction to historical wargaming for anyone with the slightest interest.
BTW, I think rules/systems from Daniel Mersey could also serve as a nice intro level primers.
Thanks for the recommendation, I feel a list of these games may be worthwhile 👍
Glad you enjoyed the vid 😁
I completely feel you on Warhammer. Top tier lore and setting, but the minis are outrageously priced and the current rules look… complicated. I almost got back into it, but I think I’ll stick with historical/ 15mm fantasy.
I know exactly what you mean, I keep hovering on pushing the button on some 30k stuff but always back off at the last minute 😅 glad you liked the video 👍
And not because you are a you know who?
Absolutely
Nicely put. All wargaming is deeply personal. I enjoy reading about the history of different ages, both social and military, and wargaming is a good way to mix that with my joy of building and painting models.
Thank you 👍
Well said. I used to play Warhammer Fantasy in the 90s and early 2000's (4th and 5th, little bit of 6th). I've recently got into historical wargaming after years of reading about history and it's so much fun. There is a great club with a great bunch of lads. No one takes the history too seriously, it's all just fun and everyone has a real passion for history.
Brilliant, glad you enjoyed the video 👍
Started wargaming with Napoleonics as a ten year old.(1970). Alongside of this, loved WW2 and skirmish games.
Then I discovered Tolkien and became an avid fantasy gamer.
Years later, and I have come full circle with Napoleonics again, only it's 18mm this time.
It's like going out with your first love again (except less disappointing).😅
Haha 😅 thanks watching, I do like Tolkein, I keep thinking of doing a Hail Caesar army but LOTR based
Brilliant video - some of the other videos out there on this topic alarmed me - they seem to present an either/or viewpoint akin to cancel culture, which is, in my opinion, as dangerous as the things they cancel. This video presented a mature and passionate viewpoint; a credit to historical gamers. Thank you.
Really appreciate that, thank you 👍🙂
Could you elaborate? I'm assuming you're referring to the sort of elitism some historical gamers seem to have (unfortunately a stereotype of us all now :/)
You're a class act, Martin. Well said.
Thanks dude 👍
Now there's a mug to die for!
Thanks, father's Day present from the daughters... Via my wife 😅
Well said and I agree completely. Historical gaming is so rewarding and rich in creativity. ⚔️
Cheers 👍 there are so many awesome stories to tell it's only limited by the restrictions you place on yourself
Let me know if you'd like a copy of Battlegroup to have a look at...
@piersbrand3539 I'm way ahead of you. I keep waving the books under his nose!
Hi Piers, that would be brilliant, thank you, it's one of the systems I keep meaning to get round to 👍
Great video and your minis show that you can get quite spectacle without resorting to fantasy. As for what games to get when starting out:
SAGA - this one is a bit divisive in the community depending on taste. Its mechanics resemble those of board games using the battle board to give your units different abilities from turn to turn. Either you'll like this or not so much. Personally I like my games to be tactical rather than rely on gimmicks so I've avoided SAGA.
Hail Caesar - a good game but it has some very Rick Priestly things in it with lots of random factors which can turn people off. Both the Command and the Morale system has huge RNG swings which can basically remove your army from the game without you having any ability to affect it. I'd recommend Swordpoint by Gripping Beast, Tercios by Liber Militum, Comitatus or Tree of Battles by Legio Wargames as alternatives to Hail Caesar. For the old school but greatly stream lined and improved Warhammer historical experience, check out War and Conquest by Scarab Miniatures.
For skirmishes of all sorts, look no further than the family of Lion Rampant and its many spin offs by Osprey Publishing. The Rampant engine is a truly robust, simple and versatile one, producing great games with a smaller amount of minis. The variants cover everything from Vikings to Renaissance to Horse and Shot to 19th century games. And there are many fan made variants, for example for the Greek, Roman and Chariot periods.
Some excellent points, I think Saga is a good transitional game when coming from a Fantasy/sci fi background as it has those "gimmicky" elements. Totally agree about the Osprey blue books. Thanks for taking the time to put all that down. The list grows 😁👍
This really brings out the the best in our hobby
Thanks very much 👍
Fantastic video Martin, totally agree with everything you said. Another reason I like historical gaming is for the what ifs of history, and trying to change the outcome of a certain period or battle on the tabletop. I also love doing the research into what ever army or period I’m doing
Thanks mate, really pleased you enjoyed it 👍
Another quality video! (Bonus points for Doomsday book)
Haha wouldn't be without it 😁
Really interesting and in-depth video about your personal journey into historical wargaming.
Also I love how you went into detail about the transition from Warhammer/sci-fi to historical, which resonates with me a lot as I'm currently switching over from WH 40K to more historical games too.
After seeing the other videos you mentioned online, this is by far the most mature and interesting take on why you/we play historical wargames.
Thank you for your great content as always!
Really appreciate it, thanks for watching 👍
Brilliant, positive video. You've definitely piqued my interest in Saga and Hail Caeser
Thanks very much. Being positive is the best way to get people to try new things. Plenty of Hail Caesar and Saga here on the channel, hope you enjoy looking into it 👍 give me a shout if I can help at all
Really enjoyed this Martin
Thanks buddy, really appreciate it 👍
Great video Martin. I started with D and D then moved into Airfix Napoleonic wargaming having been given the book "the Wargame" by Donald Featherstone. I then , like you , kind of drifted away while at University but came back through GW and Warhammer which I played for many years till they pulled the plug on it. I then got into Infinity and Saga and Bolt action. Like you I studied History and love the research side of the hobby. I too would recommend Saga as a good entry point game. Dead man's hand is a fantastic system and there's a new game "what a Cowboy" just come out that I'm keen to try. Thanks for all your hard work putting out such excellent content. See you at Crackcon!
Thanks buddy glad you enjoyed it 👍 I had to leave TTRPGs out of the video otherwise it would have been 3 hours long, I can go on and on about campaigns, house rules and minis for them for ages 😅
Great vid, so true, I actually don't play much historical, I am still addicted to warhammer. But the video you reference made me pull my hair out, when I do play historical with a friend of mine we just play who we want! (the same as you do with warhammer!)
Commenting as my Grandfather was also at Arnhem; captured, survived.
Glad you enjoyed it dude, thanks for watching 👍
Cracking video that manages to stay positive throughout! I perfect not a response to that video from those who will not be named but also an excellent general video on historical wargaming and how there can be something for anyone!
Really pleased you like it, wanted to stay positive throughout as that's why I enjoy the hobby, if it becomes to down or negative then what's the point .. then it's like work 😅
My original experience with wargaming was rather formal as I was put in a military, boarding school at age 7 through to 18. Initially we just used Crimean War figures to learn drill field maneuvers and basic tactical terms but in junior high school (7th & 8th level classes) we began learning platoon & squad level field tactics. In high school things graduated to the grand strategy level with units being reduced to board game cardboard chits and formal education & hands on artillery education. After graduating, like you, my money went to simply surviving since my family disowned me for VERY publicly opposing the Vietnam War, after all the money and effort they'd put into my private school education and a congressional appointment to one of the military academies. But I never lost my love of military history or miniatures. I was drafted and saw the worst of war's reality. When I got back I discovered Ral Partha & Tom Mier's gorgeous fantasy and historical sculpts and a free rules set from them as well and I was off. Painting the figures gave me great peace and the fantasy battles between medieval lord or Tolkien's monsters gave me great fun and were far away from machine guns & mortar attacks. In the 90's I connected with a club & eventually got a job at a game shop & my collection exploded. I'm still working on figures I got there 10 or 12 years ago. I can't do 20th century, especially tank warfare, I lost too many friends in that reality, it makes me anxious and I don't sleep well. Napoleonics has got it's claws into me and I can't stop collecting & painting all those crazy bright uniforms & game tactics. The history is fascinating and the "What Ifs" infinite on both a gaming and history level. This hobby has helped me through some of the worst times in my life and crowned some of the best with joy. I love it. Hugs !
Wow, thank you for sharing that. What a journey, it's amazing all the stories I've now heard off the back of this video and so how many of us came to the hobby for similar reasons but from totally different backgrounds 👍 thanks for taking the time to comment
@@7thson726 No worries. Make more battle reports, yours are the best, Please. Cheers !
Great insight on how to enjoy war games👍👍
If you don't enjoy it what's the point 👍 best way to advertise it to people is to show how fun and rewarding it can be, Thanks for watching
This is the way.
😁👍
Spot on Martin 👍
Thanks VK 👍
This was so good
Thank you 👍
"My game, my rules and my table" - absoutely correct; and no one has the right to say you can't do that or to criticise you (or anyone else) for engaging in a hobby that you enjoy and which harms no one. I found this video while searching for painting tips for WotR figures as I'm starting to build a retinue for Never Mind the Billhooks; and I've just subscribed after watching. Thanks for sharing an interesting and informative insight into why you enjoy this hobby. I look forward to watching more of your videos.
Really appreciate you taking the time to comment and glad you enjoyed the video. Absolutely, I'll play the way that makes the most sense and seems the most fun 👍
This is why i prefer board games over computer wargames. "My table and rules". Cant tweak a computer game
Nice video !I started with D&D but especially loved painting the miniatures.
Went into North American War of 1812 and then moved on to HYW.
Love the content!
Cheers from Canada
Bob
Thanks my friend, Glad you enjoyed it 👍
Algorithm 👻
Haha slightly 😅 if people are talking about historical gaming for once I didn't want it to be all negative and felt I could just add my experience of the hobby so people could see a positive. By next weekend everyone will have forgotten historical gaming is a thing and moved on 😁
@7th Son That's what I'm hoping for I did sound an alarm in the last Holy Diver Show I got 3 flags and the one for nudity stuck.
And that was before midwinter released their video 👻😵💫
Great video,i thought you covered things really well,personnally ive liked historical since i was a wee boy in the mid 70's enjoying the original airfix plastic figures,romans and britons were a big favourite.As i got older i got into d+d/fantasy and sci fi,although not a wargame as such, i really liked blood bowl.I like doing the research for historical games as i like history in general but i dont always stick to the historical outcome,make up my own scenario's too,like others im big on the "what if?" aspect.
Thanks for watching 👍 I agree, I just find historicals are another avenue to explore awesome narratives 🙂
The real problem of this discussion is that it has created a false narrative that people have to justify themselves and their interests against baseless accusations and presumption.
To some degree yes it has, though now I wish I'd made a video like this a while ago just for anyone who was looking at getting into historicals 👍
For new players I would suggest trying out one of the Commands and Colours games like samurai battles or ancients. You get everything you need in the box and can dip your toes into wargaming without the daunting task of needing to collect and paint minis from scratch.
Another nice beginner rules system os One Hour Wargames, it even has a little preamble about how to get into wargaming and finding minis. The rules are simple to learn and dont require too many minis (3-6 units a side). The rules encompass several periods so new players can dip their toes into what they find most interesting.
I haven't played any of the Paper boys games, but imagine that these could be a cheap way to get into historical wargaming as well. After all, people who are completely new to the hobby most likely don't have friends who already play which they can borrow minis from. In that case, starting might be extra daunting since you'll need to collect two armies. Being able to bang out some paper minis extra quick and getting some games in might give enough early dopamine to take the plunge and collect 3D minis.
Another set of excellent suggestions, as I scroll through the comments the need for a written list of all these systems 👍
Thanks for taking the time to comment
Thanks!
You're welcome my friend 👍
Very nice video. Going to give Warcry a go tonight, wish me luck! I got into wargaming via Terry Wise' introduction to wargaming using my older brother's Airfix WW2 and ACW collection, expanding into ancients and Napoleonic, then onto citadel miniatures, Dwarfs! Then back to historical and metals 15mm renaissance and Napoleonic. To make games cheaper to get into, we used card bases to practice with to see if we liked a game. Then bought the army if we did. I really enjoy the research and the painting, especially if the conflict is very niche/rare/obscure. Again great video, cannot wait for a hobby update, I need some motivation to complete my Byzantines over the thousand other projects on the go. Oh and be aware GW epic Horus Heresy is on it's way.....
Haha Byzantines and Crusade update is on the way. Let me know how Warcry was, I'm very very tempted by it 👍
@@7thson726 WC was a lot of fun, very simple to pick up, we played the original one as forgot about reactions which are in the new editon and will make it much more fun!
Such a wholesome video! Thanks for making it.
No problem, glad you enjoyed it 👍
Great video I'm just starting ancients coming from bolt action and I agree, so far I haven't spent alot or acquired alot to get going.
Two games I'd recommend which I think you would like #1 middle earth strategy battle game. Quite good fun
And #2 marvel crisis made by the legion guys it's a great game really became my number 1 very quickly. If you like marvel of coarse.
I do enjoy MESBG, I need to play more. Haven't tried Crisis Protocol yet as I think it will lead to alot of money being spent 😅
The starter box is pretty good value gives you ten hero's. I was thinking the same but you don't have to buy any rules or supplements only the characters you want
@@hobbyspotnz2833 don't tempt me 😅 I have seen some of the models and they are stunning
Love the video. As I not done wargameing as long as you have I started about 5 years ago when I went to a modelling show and they had a wild west show in 28mm it's was great fun so when I went to a wargame event as I was on a budget thay had big bags of plans Indians going cheap so I was happy as the person who got me in to it gave me a lod of the 7th cavalry he did not want and now thanks to the Perry's boxes set of ACW plus bolt action as well that's about my historical background. 👍👍🤠🤠
Fantastic, what a way to start 👍
As someone who was first introduced to Historical Wargaming at the age of 4 (English Civil War, Ancient, Napoleonic as well as WW1 and WW2), I'm 51 now. I started out using the Rules my Dad used in the 70's moved on to 40k and GW games, as well as Rouge Trooper and Chainsaw Warrior. I would say go for a Box set in a genre that interests you. and just have fun and see where the journey takes you. Brilliant Video as well sir.
Really appreciate it, thanks 👍
As a cheap intro to Ancient and Mediaeval gaming, DBA is pretty good. The rules and lists are all in one book, and the armies are small enough that you won't break the bank. Most people play with 15mm or 6mm figures, but there's no reason you can't use larger figures. With the ranges of 1/72 plastic figures now available, it's possible to get an army very cheaply.
Very true, thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 🙂
My road to historical gaming started out with D&D. I was painting a lot of minis for that and a few other roleplaying games (and a LOT of Tamiya 1/35 scale tanks and stuff), when afriend mentioned Warhammer Fantasy Battles. So I could play a game with all my minis instead of letting them collect dust! Shortly after that Rogue Trader came out and we began to branch out into scifi. I played a lot of both games thru all their editions until 7th Edition 40k (also around the time that the Old World ended). I REALLY disliked 7th Ed 40k and stopped playing GW games altogether (aside from the occaisional attempt to revive a Mordheim campaign).
A couple of years prior, a friend introduced me to a group who played 15mm Napoleonics weekly, and I got hooked. I had always been interested in British history, so I was looking forward to building a Brit army. Unfortunately, all the other major powers were very well represented (as well as one guy who had the entire Wuerttemburg army!), so I wound up with the 1813 Prussians since all the other armies were set up for post-1812.
I found I actually enjoyed reading about the Prussian army in researching their uniforms and formatiions.
Then came Bolt Action, LaSalle, Blucher, Cruel Seas, Blood Red Skies, and a host of others. My slogan became, "As long as I can push dice and throw lead I'm happy". I now play a lot of mostly skirmish games, withy the random big battle game thrown in.
For Flames of War I started out with Soviets (I was a Russian transcriber in the Army and learned to speak and read/write the language) so I could paint my own 'patriotic' slogans on my tanks. Thus I have a T-34/85 command tank proudly emblazoned "Where are Moose and Squirrel?" in Russian, among others. I also have a large German force so I can play folks who don't want to play on the Eastern front.
I am not a fascist, a communist, or any other -ist ypu care to name. I JUST PLAY GAMES!
Another good intro game is Little Wars TV's Ravenfeast. It, too is a Viking Age skirmish game, but the rules are free on their website. For the price it's a GREAT game.
I keep looking at Ravensfeast, definitely one I want to try and may indeed use for my mini Maldon project. My mate showed me Blucher and that's another one I'd definitely like to check out. Some great games on that list 👍🙂
I started playing saga a few months ago and highly enjoy the system. the Vikings were my first choice and now looking at forces for the crusades era.
Great game Saga, I seem to play Age of Vikings more than anything. Lots of nice looking armies to collect in AOC and loads of companies that make minis for them, good choice 👍
Outstanding video!
For games that are a unit on a base, try Impetus. For skirmish and larger battles try the various rules by Ganesha Games. For a great game with an average of 30 miniatures in an _army_, De Bellis Antiquitatus (DBA) by Phil Barker of Wargames Research Group (WRG) fame one of the Grandads (in his 90's and still active) of Miniatures Wargaming (Rick Priestly started with WRG 4th edition rules!).
Impetus is one I've had the rules for for ages but not yet tried, maybe it's time to give it a go 😁👍
Good video, but I would like to add Muskets and Tomahawks and the 2 additions, Lion rampant and Dragon rampant and even Oathmark. All are skirmish games with a reasonable model count. You can start an English 100year war army with 1 Perry box, for instance, 4 units at 24 points, 36 figures.
Thanks 👍 I did think about M&T but I thought that to a player who is coming from a GW mind set something more familiar would be step one. Don't get me wrong I love M&T, it's one of my favourite systems but I see it as a good second step, so a bit like - 40K > Lion Rampant > M&T 👍
Thank you for your thoughts.
Welcome back online.
Hope your move went as smoothly as possible.
Glad to be back 👍 all went well, still a few bits and bobs to sort out but more or less done
Really interesting talk Martin, was great to listen to and some wonderful points made.
Thanks buddy, glad you enjoyed it 👍
Very interesting hearing your journey into historical wargaming. Particularly, , from someone coming from a sci -fi fantasy background.
Appreciate that thanks very much 👍 it's been an interesting journey for sure
Great video! Its funny that I would discover your channel because some other video causing a ruckus among wargamers.
Welcome aboard, thanks for taking the time to comment. This is the good things about the hobby, there is always way more to discover, also, that's what makes it expensive 😅😁
Well done! A good way to confront the misinformation sometimes being provided elsewhere. Also, a good game for beginners with a relatively low entry cost could be Lion Rampant. Thanks for the quality of your content, congrats!😎👍
You're very welcome, thanks for watching 👍
You obviously know that GW is bringing back the Old World 🌍 the starter sets going to be Bretonnians V Tomb Kings
I heard this, going to be keeping my eye on developments there 👀
I started writing and it turned into a dissertation. The short version. Mid Winter Mini's in all innocence asked a stupid question out of naivety and genuine ignorance and people have deliberately misinterpreted it.
I game all sorts of different military war games but have two projects on the go at the moment. To recreate the battle of Allam El Haifa, Monty's first desert victory over Rommel. I know a British victory so it should not be spoken of.
The second project is a clash between a US Marine Regt and a Mongol Tumen. About 1200 men v 10,000. A muppet proposed it on a video and said the Marines would bottle it. Of course they would because he took everything off them and all they had was bad language to fight back with. But though it is technically fantasy, I wanted to game it with all the weapons the Marines would have at Regimental level except, air power, heavy artillery and AFV 's. Because with that stuff it is a done deal, (See the anime The Gate). And I got news for people, if a super sonic round does not penetrate Marine body armour, the arrows from a horse bow wont.
That sounds really interesting though as you say I think the Mongols aren't exactly going to be having an easy time of it 👍
Excellent video. The other video in question was laughable. I also started with 40K and WHFB but moved over to historicals. Love the research and reading through a period. Currently trying to decide if I should start a project for either the Baron's War or War of the Roses. Both very tempting. And my samurai have a lot waiting for attention
Well I'm biased but the WOTR would get my vote haha 😅 thanks for watching
Bravo on a great video! 30 year wargaming and counting, just starting ECW and loving it. Cheers from Virginia 🇺🇸
Appreciate it, thank you 👍😁 awesome you're starting ECW, have you picked a side?
@@7thson726 Have to paint both since no one around here ever heard of a Civil War other than ours. But I prefer Royalists.
Started with Heroquest for me, yep same with me for uni, and yeah I'm now looking at historicals. The recent MWM video has somewhat triggered the FU gland in my brain though so may have to play Germans 😂
Haha there are so many possible historical projects it's like the most awesome buffet of plastic and metal you could ask for 😁
I’ve always wanted to try painting a ACW Confederate Army in 40mm do you know of any company that makes this scale ?
I actually thought the Perry's did some 40mm but they may just be Napoleonic 🤔
Hoorah for wargaming variety! Well done Martin!
Cheers buddy 😁
Hi Martin
Great video, it was your battle reports that got me back into Napoleonic war gaming again. Haven’t done it for about 20 years, I’m trying very hard not to go into the war of the roses, but you are making it very hard😂.
Keep up the great work.
Haha go for it, something for everyone in the WOTR 😁 Glad you liked the video
Good work on this. Why do we play historical wargames? Because we love it, that’s why. Scale, rules, size of action, historical periods, there is so much to work with who needs fantasy or Sc-Fi is a more interesting question, when we have the whole of human history to game in? And, that to decry fantasy and sci-Fi, if people want to do that crack on and enjoy, it’s just game at the end of day.
Cheers, glad you liked it. Absolutely, no point in doing something if you're not passionate about it 👍😁
Really positive video and a great way to address the slightly cack handed video that is definitely unlike that content creator I imagine prompted this.
I generally play GW games but have recently started playing Barons War and love the content you have on this channel, despite not currently playing these games.
Hope someone reaches out and invites the content creator to a historical war games club to show what it’s all about.
Barons War is a cracking game, shortly going to be on the channel here as well 😉 glad you liked the video 👍
Holy shit! Hey dude, you just randomly popped up on my yt feed. Small world! How's things?
Haha hey there 😁👍 yeah I'm no too bad cheers, how are you keeping?
Good evening , do you have a top 3 in historical wargames with their rules , according to your preferences ? Ps ; Your battle reports are classy 😃
My top 3 would be
Hail Caesar (and back powder & pikei & shotte as they are more or less the same
Saga
And Test of Honour