Japan's Oni. Demonic, Cannibalistic, and a Totally Great Hosts? - Extra Mythology
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2023
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Oni, the monstrous demons of Japan. Dishonest and deceptive they stole women and brought misfortune to the villages of Japan. So, Emperor Ichijō sent his greatest and most pure warrior to slay this foul demon but Minamoto No Raikō soul would not be safe from the cunning Oni.
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Meh
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@@extrahistoryI love you a lot sadly I can’t afford your patreon I really want a extra video about Alvin york the most decorated us soldier in ww1
If the theories are true that Shuten Doji and many other famous Oni were actually ethnic and religious minorities who were demoted to monstrous subhumans in the retelling, it makes Minamoto no Raikō's inability to live with himself even more poignant.
Oh... oh.
Oh wow
yep，Raiko is a real history figure who was sent to eastern Japan to repel the local clans (many of them were ethnic minority group). Some of clans he defeated was later became the monsters in legend, like Tsuchigumo.
This also goes with the Tsuchigumo myth, where as were Minorities/renegade clans who rebelled against the rule of the court and fought using guerilla tactics as well as underground tunnels.
Due to the fact that Tsuchigumo means dirt/earth spider and in their story the Yōkai used underhanded tactics such as disguising as a human, really represent those minorities/clans in a derogatory manner.
That's unlikely I have scene similar theories about other mythical beings and these theories are widely rejected by scholars and academics that study these things. The origins of myths and legends are very complicated and often have multiple origins. Reducing their origin to villifing a ethnic group is a massive oversimplification.
I half expected the 4 mountain priests to be disguised Oni's luring him in.
Ha, I was thinking the same exact thing
Yeah, I was waiting for the twist to come.
I thought it was the rescued women (infiltrating the social circles of their victims and taking revenge for their killed king).
The way that I always heard it was that Shuten-douji didn't disguise himself while greeting the "priests" and was honest about serving them human meat (while being impressed that the "priests" eagerly ate it while claiming their order found it disrespectful to refuse a host's food). After having his head cut off, Shuten then chastised them by stating that the oni had never lied to them, yet they killed him by relying on lies.
Yep, same here. I think about it with my own issues. 😂 I'm a strict vegetarian with a lot of vegan preferences, but I also find it rude to turn down a host's meal or put them out of the way, even though it makes me sick.
Glad I have logical limits where I'll still side with my ethics over a host's comfort.
So, they're bad for lying, but kidnapping and killing women to eat somehow makes the Onii the true "virtuous" ones? 🤨🤨
@@derekbates4316 probably just meant "good in evil, evil in good" or yin-yang
@@srkuroburu
Bare in mind, the worst the good guys did was lie, and that's because if they were honest, everybody would've died, because the bad guys were KILLING FOLKS! 😮😮
If you lie to save your life, I guess according to Buddhism you're evil and must be condemned? And, new age dorks complain about the Bible being full of contradictions.
@@derekbates4316I think it’s less of the oni being evil and more of the samurai not following his own rules of honor.
I FULLY expected those Mountain Priests to be Oni! I was really surprised just how little the supposedly sneaky shapeshifting trickster actually fooled the hero, *and* The fact that it was the hero successfully fooling the villain. The "Good always triumphs over evil" message was simpler than I thought it would be too, until Raiko realised that in doing so he had soiled his honour.
I guess it was the GODS who tempted him to accomplish his mission dishonourably though, and even performed the vital step of drugging Shuten-Doji.
Plus this isn’t a new story, this is from ancient Japan so such themes were still new in conception. The weirdest part is that it’s actually more common Shuten was in fact female. They kidnapped women to make wine from their blood though.
"Maybe the real Oni were the deceptions and dishonor we committed along the way?"
Fun fact about Mt Oyama! It was very close to the POW camps in WW2. When Frank Evans, a Welsh POV went back to visit the area and remember his comrades after the war he had no idea where the camp was, so he asked locals where Mt Oyama was and found his way there easily. To this day in Yosanocho, a nearby town, there is a sign written in Welsh to commemorate the POWs there. A local man even translated Frank's memoir into Japanese for him.
There are Oni on some of the sewer grates as well in reference to the myths about Oni!
Very much recommend visitting Yosanocho in Kansai if anyone is thinking of visiting Japan. It's super near Amanohashidate, which is a really really beautiful part of Japan.
Moral of the story: "You have become the very thing you swore to destroy!"
right, in many "epic killings" there is something very similar: in King Kong or godilla are examples of two "innocent monsters" who are killed for the "good of humanity"
“You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.”
Those Oni be looking like they're trying to take Max to where wild things are 😆😅🙃
Lol omg
OMG real talks I was thinking the exact same thing 😂😂😂
They do, don't they?
This is one of those Japanese tales that has many variations to it; one version I heard was that Raiko (real name Minamoto no Yorimitsu) was unafraid and unbothered by his use of deception, as he was willing to do whatever to accomplish any task given to him by clan and emperor. Another variation has Kintaro catching Shuten-doji and then being made one of Raiko's generals. Also, in the Heikei Monogatari, the diviner who determined that it was oni behind the abductions was Abe no Seimei, an onmyoji with a plethora of legends to his name and arguably one of the best known figures of Heian Japan.
Honestly, a one-off on the history of Minamoto no Yorimitsu, his retainers, or Seimei would be great as outside of legends and popular culture, figures from Heian-era Japan are not often discussed in the west. Or barring that, hearing more legends about the retainers or Seimei would be fun; there are so many to choose from.
I see a comparrison with the tale:
Theseus and the minotaur
Another vote for Heian Japan, we have oversaturation with Sengoku, and Japan has tons of media around Edo and Boshin War, older periods are overlooked.
For a warrior so guided by honor, attacking a foe in his sleep is certainly not honorable.
Imagine being a demon and a mountain priest you fed like an hour ago is poking uou in the side whispering profanities and insults holding a blade telling you he wants to fight.
Well that's exactly why he lost self-respect in the end, what makes the character so complex.
the oni king reminds me a bit of proto-teletubbie, then his final sentence, has a bit of the curse of the dragon Fáfnir when Sigurd slew him he said: "Ride there then, and thou shalt find gold enow to suffice thee for all thy life-days; yet shall that gold be thy bane, and the bane of every one soever who owns it."
I realise that it's probably a result of my disconnect from Japanese culture, but I love how utterly alien their folkloric creatures are compared to those of Europe 😊
Folklore in general is weird af if you think about them objectively.
North American : cannibals can mimic sounds
European : wow dwarfs let's help them
Asian : Did you point at that tree? Man your dead 💀
Did you do your clothes at night ? Man your dead 💀
They probably think the same looking at our folklores.
alien? lol as an asian, you're alien.
Related note, I love how understated remarks can become when filtered through translation. "They can change their appearance, I just can't respect that." is peak Japanese to English translation weirdness.
In Recent studies of Japanese history and mythology, people are starting to see Oni in a new and more humanized light. Real Oni were not Demons and Ogres, but Outsiders. Foreigners and people who refused to submit to the imperial court or conform to Imperial Japanese traditional customs.
Shuten-douji (Little Drunkard) was not born an Oni but a Human turned Oni. He was an Orphan left at a Buddhist monastery and turned out to be prestigious smart and had a talent for out drinking all the other monks, and he was proud of the things that made him unique but he had been told many times to conform and be like everybody else. This frustrated him and made him act out in rebellion. Then one night he got his hands on an Oni mask during a celebration and decided to go around scaring people and making mischief while wearing the mask. Then by daybreak he tried to take the mask off but it was permanently fixed onto his face! He had acted so much like an Oni that he turned into one and fled the village no longer being able to be accepted by society.
In this story where he's kidnapping women it wasn't just random women off the street, they were specifically women of the court who were probably hostages meant for ransom, not cannibalism. And if we are to take the Oni in this story as a metaphor for Foreigners then by appearing as a Man and acting as a generous host you could interpret it as them trying to be diplomatic by acting and presenting in accordance to Japanese customs
Huh warhammer can make use of it
Literally no actual historians actually believe this. Like most legends there are multiple versions of Shuten-douj. None of which are the true version. Any story that has lasted hundreds of years is going to have multiple variations. This version isn't any more true than other.
@@magnadramon0068 guys in the mountains pretty clearly are mythologized outlaws or rebels though... the legend doesn't make sense with being inspired by weather or animals, as it's about hospitality and looking like humans, even if we remove all possible connotations of xenophobia, it's still a story about paranoia and not trusting fellow humans who might look ordinary but be a demon all along... Ever seen the Thing? That kind of existential horror. Anyone can be "it", or an Oni in this case.
"And if your conscience is bothering you, you should soothe it with the knowledge that you may have just saved all of Japan. And all it cost was the life of one Oni-King and the self-respect of one Samurai"-A Simple Tailor
I'm sorry, but can i ask what's this refer to ? The " a simple tailor" I mean
@@adamdamiri4823This is a Star Trek reference. Specifically, from Deep Space 9.
@@eskarinakatz7723I belive the tailor's name was Eri-no-Garaku.
Shuten-Doji is an interesting character on its own as part of the "Three Great Evils" of Japan along with Tamamo-no-mae who has gotten much internet notice due to the fate/ franchise and Emperor Sutoku
There was a bunch of posts about Tamamo-no-Mae when the Killing Stone broke itself a while ago. It would be fun to see her in Extra Mythology, too.
@@kokuinomusume oh the meme of the event
I know Shuten-Doji and Tamno-no-mae(although had no clue they were a part of a group) but who's the third of the great evils?
@@toekneemart5597 not really sure due to lack of pop culture reference, but from illustrations, it would appear that Emperor Sutoku was a Tengu of sort who, according to folklore, haunted Japan after his abdication and exile causing the fall of the Imperial Court and the series of civil unrest and droughts along with the rise to power of Samurai clans that followed after his death
@@TheRevanchrist neat
Well if you don't know then I guess I'll look up the group myself later
Oh. So that's why in FGO Raiko is said to be part oni. Interesting.
Some say that Shuten Douji was, once, a human monk himself before his depravity caused him to become one of the most fearsome oni of all time.
That intro be crazy
Third eye on the face does sound great for emergency purposes
100% Better dice rolls for any perception check.
You really need to flag this as current events. Convince the masses that Prime Minister Fumio Kishida is, in fact, a shapeshifting demon.
Why?
@@haven_lady675why not?
@@haven_lady675 Because chaos reigns
I mean, hey, at least he, like the US, wants to keep their military and economic power in check.
But they didn’t get Ibaraki…
The banana survived to fight another day
And then the spirit from Dead by Daylight shows up and goes "its spiritin time" and spirits all over the place.
Truly one of the spirits of all time.
I liked the depiktion of the hamon on the swords!
Ads a nice touch.
"Oni have no honor; disguisijg themselves and attacking by surprise. Now lets disguise ourselves and attack him while he is asleep."
I love the irony that the man obsessed with honor chose to sneak in under false pretenses, (presumably)eat human flesh, then assassinate them while they were sleeping off the poison they ingested, instead of the "honorable" option of marching to the gate and challenging them to a duel. The best part was that the mountian priests turned out to be Gods, Instead of Oni sent to trick them like I expected.
As a follow-up to your Napoleon in Egypt series, I think it would be fascinating to do a series on the history of Egypt AFTER the French were ousted. Things didn't exactly return to normal, nor were they the least bit uneventful. Muhammad Ali's seizure of power from the Mamluks, his early reforms, the "Arab Renaissance", his efforts to hold onto power against the Ottomans, an early pan-Arab movement(?), one of the most successful modernizations/Westernizations of the 19th century (not Japan successful, but still pretty impressive), then the gradual fall of a vibrant, forward-looking Egypt as his successors squandered their wealth and power and the Europeans gradually took over, turning Egypt into yet another colony, but with one of the most important locations for the world economy and positioned right in the middle of the Arab world, ready for Egypt's important role in post-colonial history.
There have been so many examples of movements throughout Africa and Asia to reform rapidly in the face of Western encroachment after centuries of slow economic and political decline, and there's a lot to explore about why this particular case failed in the way that it did. We're still seeing many examples of military coups or revolutions installing new states that are trying to turn around a struggling country; it's a kinda timeless story at this point, and the legacy of Muhammad Ali and his successors are still pretty controversial. As one of the earliest examples, and one that did succeed for a while, yet whose failure helped to usher in a new age of imperialism in the Middle East, I think a series on 19th-century Egypt would be fascinating, and I hope you guys read this and consider it.
"How sad, you priests! You said you do not lie. There is nothing false in the words of demons."
One of the three great evil yokai ( along with the fox Tamamo no Mae, who should get her own video, and either the oni Otakemaru or Sutoku, an Emperor of Japan) who was the son of the Yamata no orochi; born human, and turned into an oni after putting on a mask, creating mischief, and finding that he could not remove it, was undone because he showed hospitality.
I have heard that this story was a metaphor, the oni representing the "uncivilized" mountain people, who were rebels or a different group, and thus killing them was justifiable.
Note that mountains were traditional outpost for bandits who preyed on travelers, which isn't mutually exclusive with rebels or any other group government doesn't like.
Hey Extra History!
I love your vids but i want to say some stuff you forgot:
1. The priests did not join Raiko and his men, they just gave him the sake and a divine helmet.
2. And the divine helmet was what protected Raiko, not two regular helmets.
Anyways thanks for the awesome vid!
There seem to by many versions of this tale. In some, there are 3 monks, not 4. Some where Shuten and the other Oni disguise themselves in the fort, others where they always show their true forms. That's what happens when stories are passed down for centuries.
Nothing like an extremely well-produced and informative video to remind you just how thoroughly a certain mobile game has ruined your perception of history.
Stop.
Hahahaha I know exactly what you're talking about
I'd recommend Gaijin Goombah's video on Shuten Doji. He approaches it specifically from the angle of said mobile game and where it's historically accurate, and where there are... embellishments... He also seems to tell a version of this tale that is different to the one told in this video.
What game is that?
@@umonly5681 Fate Grand Order. In it, both of the main characters of this video are women, Shuten Doji is petite and Minamo-no-rakio has breasts larger than her head.
Raiko: I… lied. I am nothing more than dishonorable cur!
My brother in Christ, you killed a kidnapping cannibal demon that was like 10x your height, and saved numerous captives.
And did so by betraying everything he believed in.
Think of it as the lite version of all the traumatized people who had their own ideas of war being glorious before WWI left them mentally and spiritually broken.
My brother in Amaterasu
@@KuroeNezumiundercover cop would be a closer comparison i think. I feel like the "protect the innocent" principle usually takes priority over "Dont lie".
Batman logic
There is another japanese legend with similar tones: the fight of Prince Yamato Takeru against a bunch of pirates.
The prince won the fight by disguising himself as a woman and offering poisoned sake to the pirates. His father, the Emperor Keiko, was furious because he used deception instead of fighting with honor, and Yamato Takeru abandoned the court for a long time. He returned several years later, carrying a sword called Kusaragi.
“Demonic, Cannibalistic, and a Totally Great Host!”
OH MY GOD THEY’RE MAKING A VIDEO ON BILL GATES!!
Raikou: I hate deception.
Also Raiko: Let's use deception. (But we'll feel sorry after.)
I was honestly surprised none of the people they met were oni in disguise
This channel is as rad as mountain priests
It's funny that the whole "use guile to triumph over a cannibal ogre" deal is often used in european mythology but by weak characters like a young boy or a cat, not a knight in shining armor. So the morals are much more clear-cut.
This potential cannibalism episode was made possible with Hello Fresh!
Japan's way of saying...."You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain"
"Great party, bro." [draws sword] "Time to die!"
Ahh. Truly an authentic Japanese tale. When given the option to make a direct refusal or reluctantly agree to eat human meat, there is clearly only one choice.
Demon got his priorities right
In the end he became the monster he swore he would kill
Samurai ... practiced deception on a daily basis, like these dudes never told the truth, frequently betrayed alliances and basically acted identically to European feudal lords. It was the Ninja clans that served the Samurai who were loyal and honorable, so honorable that later Shogun leaders would deliberately taint that honor by passing off Samurai lies and plots as from the Ninja clans.
That was a great twist n probably the best use of the “we’re not so different u n I” trope
Can't remember if you guys have covered the tale of Yamata no Orochi, but I'd love to see you animate it
Linfamy channel did a great video on this folk tale. That's where I heard it 1st. Absolutely love this tale.
I was very surprised that the four mountain priests weren't the Oni in disguise.
So, a powerful warrior, whose people are under attack by a strange, overwhelming force, uses stealth, deception, and chemical weapons to defeat them, while praying at shrines along the way and losing his honor in the process? Is this the story of Raikou, or the Ghost of Tsushima?
Already watched this twelve times
I love this channel
We love you!
Love how he showed bill cypher like 2 minutes in
The more I think about it the more the oni are like bill cypher and his bubble prison for Mabel
For a man of and about honor, he was quick to use the tactics of dishonest assassins
Are you telling me Shuten Doji is not a loli and Raikou is not a busty milf?
Unfortunately Fate franchise loves genderflipping characters like that
_[ara ara maa maa intensifies]_
@@MaxHDAvenger why unfortunately? Especially since they made the characters from this legend so cool.
Definitely enjoyed this video about Raikou and Shuten.
Never thought I would see the day that the word kickass would be spoken in an Extra Mythology video.
Fact or fiction; oni are allergic to soy?
fax
Nice that they mention Illuminati! Haha, I got that one 😂
I also like ten sounds effect. It makes the demon way MORE interesting. 😊
Was it me or did I see something that resembled bill cypher somewhere near the beginning
It's a Lemon Demon.
Gotta love those mountain priests 3:50
Thank you for the video.
What a coincidence this video being uploaded the exact same day Minamoto no Raikō got a new buff on the JP server of Fate/Grand Order? 😄
Ooooh her Buster steroid became 3-turn and it gave her an additional 30% battery, nice
Love these midweek videos guys! You rock!🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤❤
When I think of Oni, I think of the Pokémon Ogerpon and then I’m happy
The sword (allegedly) used to kill Doji still exists today as a National Treasure of Japan. It was given the name Dojigiri ("Doji slayer" or "Doji cutter").
Thanks👍🏼
You guys have to do a video on the dullahan from irish mythology or the duppy from Jamaican folklore
PANR has tuned in.
Thanks for hanging out with us PANR!
@@extrahistory of course! Thank you for making quality content!
Ahh if only they had Hello Fresh in ancient japan!?
But then we wouldn't have wonderful tale's and myths to tell..🎉
Awesome 👍🏾
Fantastic
I am very sad to hear that the TV show teen Wolf appropriated the name in Japanese culture while also doing it completely and correctly but I'm not surprised but I love learning about the true culture
That two helmet stack took me out lmao
Bro these Mountain Priests be bussing Fr . No cap .
Why does Shuten Doji look cute tho 6:26
6:55
"Not just one, but two helmets"
Why does that soumd like something out of a Monty Python film?
"Stand down foul demon! You cannot defeat me for I have the mighty power of two helmets!"
Never trust a priest
It’s a sad story, but completely true
Wait where's tanjiro and their friends i mean the other one who work a freaking boar mask ?
I was in an HOA once, it was just like that
I would tell Minamoto no Raiko that in war, sometimes deception is needed to achieve victory. Also is it really dishonourable to deceive someone who has no honour themselves because of their own heinous and deceitful acts? Yes, there might be the argument of “two wrongs don’t make a right”, but just think, the demon king playing model host was in of itself a deception and he and his minions would most likely have killed the priests (real and fake alike) in their sleep and ate them too. At least that’s how I see it. Also, if there is an argument that priests are protected by the gods or something, do you really think a demon would pass up the chance to stick it to the divine? P.S yes I knows the gods disguised as priests would have most likely intervened if that happened but that just goes to show how the two types of beings can come into conflict with each other and how the divine, and thus the epitome of honour, still use deception.
Not that I in any way an expert in samurai traditions, but - at least in the glorified way it was hold up later - I think rationalizing his deeds simply would not work. It does not matter if you have no chances, if you doom yourself to certain death - keeping your honour is what only matters.
Of course real life samurais acted often not so noble - but this is a story and Minamoto no Raiko (as the hero of the story) had no excuse - at least not to himself - to abandon his code. The ends NEVER justifies the means.
You should do some welsh mythology
Using deception against Oni is simply fighting fire with fire
What about the part where they moved to some mountain in the Yatsugatake Mountains?
Damm, that is a good story
Japanese Creatures are always so interesting
At face value, this is trying to equate using disguise to murder and cannibalism... like comparing perfidy with violent war crimes.
I thought this story about a Samurai Warrior who found an "eye of Oni" and finally can defeat Onis and upgrade his magic power by absorbing Oni's souls 😁
gotta love those mountain priests!
Who has awakened me!?
- King Oni
Oh that’s a good story
4:25 Why does this mysterious detail keeping coming up in worldwide mythology?
I just don't get it. It's supposed to be a tale of goodly heroes destroying evil, right? But it's so ambiguous. As mentioned at the end, he wins through trickery and slaughters his enemy while asleep. This is more at home in Yiddish folklore where the hero wins through being clever. Just seems so antithetical to the ideas of honor.
I learnt about the oni from Jackie-Chan adventures who had them as antagonists
Basically is like going for your quest with four Gandalfs
A DOUBLE HELMET OF LESSONS
Cool
A lot of characters were left out in this retelling, like Shuten-Doji's right-hand man, Ibaraki-Doji.
Oh hey *Kaido.*
Suten?!?
But amazing vid