3 Link Suspension 101 - What You Need To Know - Reckless Wrench Garage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 มิ.ย. 2024
- This episode is all about the 3 link suspension we are building on the Ranger! We explain anti dive and anti squat and how to use the 3 link calculator. If you are doing a solid axle swap, or want to build a 3 link suspension in general, we cover many of the guidelines for building a front 3 link suspension and what you need to know to do it yourself. All of the 3 link parts were sourced from Barnes 4WD and the links are below.
3 Link Calculator:
www.crawlpedia.com/4_link_sus...
irate4x4.com/resources/4-link...
Check out our Amazon Store:
www.amazon.com/shop/recklessw...
Want more details or have more questions, send us an email
recklesswrenchgarage@gmail.com - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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This video was a bit more technical than some we have done previously, did you like it? What are you wanting to build a 3 link suspension on?
Yup. The more technical the better as most videos are simply skipping that part and showing their install only. 1977 F-150 with 2002 D60 front, 2002 Sterling 10.5 rear.
Thank you! Sounds like a cool project 😎
I have two four link Kits that I’ve been neglecting to install on my 87 Toyota crawler. One of these days
This is a “simplified” but technical video. Awesome! You nailed it in my opinion. Dove deep enough with great explanation without going too far down the rabbit hole. Animations were a very nice touch too. It was helpful getting that picture in the audience’s mind. Overall more breakdown videos like this please!!
09 JKU stock locked dana 44’s 3 linked front and rear.
My build is a 1983 Nissan Patrol 160. I'm using Barnes kits front and rear. 3 link front, four link rear.
All Chevy drive train. Gen II LT1, TH400, twin stick NP205, Dana 60 front and 14 bolt rear.
Thanks for the explanation of anti dive/anti squat. Good stuff guys!
Just wanna say I've watched this video like 5 times while setting up my 3 Link. Thanks for the informative vidoe and instructions on how to work that calculator!
Looking Good Chris . looking forward to seeing the install
Great explanation of suspension geometry and the effects of different arrangements.
This video is awesome. I actually bought my first RC crawler. After 35 years in the RC hobby I'm fairly knowledgeable about independent suspension systems but I know nothing about solid axle suspensions. It's all new to me and its all so fascinating!
Thank you!
Dude - That was Awesome. I'm currently doing a front 3 link to go with my 4 linked rear that I did about 3 years ago. This was Awesome info, I Very much like the way you laid it out, doesn't seem to technical to me at all. Great job, thanks.
Great videos guys, thanks for all the work. Nice to see something actually informative on youtube. I'm looking to graduate from bolt-on to my first fabricated setup on a Ranger, and this is all invaluable information. Really appreciate the nod to Barnes. Really nice looking brackets and kits and their prices are really reasonable. Love both rigs BTW, the Ranger and Shortburban are cool AF..
Really great knowledge. I need to learn more since I am swapping one tons in my jeep Cherokee and I will need to make the front suspension. Thank you for a great video
Awesome Channel! I'm getting ready to tackle this on my 72 GMC. Very helpful. Looking forward to your install video.
Great video. Explained and answered all my questions in one video.
Built my entire long arm kit for my 2000 jeep grand Cherokee with all Barnes4wd, love their products. Very beefy for a great price.
Thank you guys for posting this! I was thinking about this today
Really great video! This was super helpful and made getting my 3 link setup a lot less intimidating
Thank you!
Awesome video guys. Very informative but still you were able to make it easily understandable
Awsome info. Great production with all the annotations. New subscriber!
Awesome video. My front 3 link is parallel and I’ve been wanting to kick out the lowers on the axle. As just a bit of triangulation.
Thanks that was simple enough for me to understand ,
Great info, thanks Chris.
Awesome, very informative. Thank you!
Very good overall explanation of the topic. New Sub, thanks for the content.
I like you guys doing it your way !
This Chris is better than Chris fix it. Dude don't stop this level of technical info, fucking brilliant, fuck the trolls.
Doing some mods to a hack of a suspension in a Comanche. Wish I could just get a “kit” but budget says no. So modifying a radius arm and converting to a true 3 link so this was very educational. Thanks for the info. Oh and I’m using all of Barnes stuff too so great plug👍🏻🇺🇸
Great video and explanation
More information in this video than half the internet lol, thanks guys, this cleared up a lot! One suggestion for a future video is a (rear) 4-link 101 with animations and explanations like you did with the Ranger here, since there's just as much misinformation on 4-links as well.
Thank you! Our previous 4 link builds made us want to make this video, doing a similar tech video on the rear is something we will probably do in the future
Very informative video!
Thanks. Lots of good info
Nice idea about using pvc for mock up
Well done, thank you.
Nice axle! 😎
Good job dude!
Well explained !
great video !!!
Good informative video! Enjoyed it.
Thank you, hopefully it was useful!
there must be an inside joke with the word "shank" cuz hommie couldn't say it without a laugh. fantastic work!
Barnes is awesome free shipping over 50 dollars beats other builder supplys and the shipping was quick
Thanks man!
thanks for sharing
Nice info .....Thanks
I have no desire to put a 3 link on my truck...but I did do it on my 1/10 truck! I learned a few things I didn't know nor would have thought about that still applies but in a smaller scale.
Thank you
Hey Cris! André from Brazil! Greeeeeeat video! Thank you so much! Some doubts! I don't know how high my car is going to be. Depending on the clearance a have for my links (oil pan and oil filter), I"ll use more or less lift and that will change the CG.
Just used Barnes4wd d60 xj swap truss kit along with all the FK jmx heims they sell along with their Superduty d60 high steer arms.
Great episode. Too short tho should be longer😊
I could tell from the moment I first saw you that you really really knew your Shanks.
All jokes aside, Sick video and it will come in handy whel I 3 link my yota. I got an XJ with 4links and yota axles some vlowns havked the sheet out of this thing. Looks like it was a mint XJ sport but either way I got 4 links, yota axles and highsteer lol
Bought link brackets from Barnes and this spring it is on.
I Leaf sas'd a 91 Hilux surf 12 years ago and rear leafed it, sold it for bills my woman accumulated her not knowing what all went into that thing, let my pick this thing up to redeem that lol she's in for a treat.
Very very informative video.can you teach us the watts link too?
What are some of the advantages/disadvantages when comparing a 4-link vs a 3-link suspension system? I've never dealt with either.
awesome
build it big guy
Good stuff! Now come build mine. Lol
Hey man love the videos very helpful. I have a 2000 ranger 4x4 and I dont know where to look for info about this stuff so I watch yall. Is there a specific place you look for info on all this or is it trial and error? Thanks for the advice very much appreciated.
Daily driver but get a wild hair to dip off on a powerline every now and then lol thanks again!!
One of the reasons I made this video is because a lot of the information is scattered around forums and web sites on the internet. Pirate 4x4 has the most technical information, but sometimes it is difficult to find good posts that have the info you need
really great video on a complicated engineering topic. instant sub! but, as a structural engineer, i will add that these difference arent AS noticeable in real life as they may seem. its almost better to optimize what you have based on your mounting points, like building a big complicated control arm mount with 100% perfect geometry is less desirable than something that say mounts directly to the frame with 80% perfect geometry. there is a give and take to both sides
Thanks for watching and thanks for the compliments! You are correct, there is always a fine balance between working with the stock chassis and cutting everything up and building something custom. Most people probably can't tell the difference when driving a vehicle at various anti-dive values
When i did my 3 link. I literally winged it. I Just took some measurements and its actually not bad. My heims clack a lot. Ill swap them out for rebuildable joints.
No doubt, you can throw it together without going in depth and it may turn out good enough. The main benefit to going into detail with the measurements is the ability to predict how the suspension will react and you know where to make changes.
Colton Doyle go with some Johnny joints
I have a Toyota echo. I like to do three link on the axle. With coils. any suggestions welcomed!!!
Can I mount my outer bars from the axle to the frame from the top of the axle and the centre bar to frame to the bottom of the axle. I will have air ride and I need the drop clearance from engine crossmember 11:59 to Dana 44
Essa suspensão precisa da panhard lateral do chassi pro diferencial?
What about the 25% separation. How does that affects flex? And the 5" to 6" frame link separation?
How do you input measurements for a vehicle that doesn’t exist yet? Center mas hight, is that on stock tires or the tires you want to run?
This is an amazing video. Helps me understand the science behind the 3 link suspension. I do have a question, what would happen if I have my upper link be the same length as my lower link?
If the upper and lower are the same length your pinion would pretty much stay where it's pointed throughout suspension travel and your steering caster will change through suspension travel. A lot of people make them the same length because they need the pinion angle and sacrifice better steering geometry during travel
@@RecklessWrenchGarage if upper and lower are the same length, the axle will remain exactly in the same position, with the caster exactly as it was.(and should be).
What about the 3rd link horizontal position? How that changes articulation and strengh? I already know that in my case the 3rd is gonna be positioned closer to the tyre than to the differential
Hey just a weird question here. Can you put the upper link under the axel? I’m building a rat rod with 3 link solid front axle. But on the top side of the axle is going to get real busy with air bags and mounts, etc. But under the axle is free and clear
Great info! Sometime in the near future I wanna build my K30. Gotta build my shop first 😭
You can always build it in the driveway like us 🤣
Hey there, had an accident in my ranger and am thinking of doing this same thing with the Barnes kit.
I have a Dana 30 and wanna do coilovers and just swap to electric power steering.
I’m curious how the rig handles on road, noise etc. it’s my ranch/camp truck and sees more street than dirt but still climbs up in the hills for firewood and camping trips.
Also, 2x wheel travel. How am I gonna know what that will be? I thought that coil and shock absorber would be defined after everything in place
What min max angle does the upper left no bar to the frame need to be
I'm currently building 3-link suspension on 2 of my trucks. Ok they are RC cars but very similar to the real thing. On 1 truck I triangulated the lower links the opposite of what you say: wide on the chassis and narrow toward the axle. I noticed a quite a bit of flexsteer. So I should chance this to what you suggest: wide on the axle and slightly narrow toward the chassis to eliminate this flexsteer?
Awesome video! Cleared up so much misinformation and confusion created by people that don’t want us to know so they can charge out the butt to do it.
I have a question on center of gravity. Y’all measure to the upper bell housing bolt. I read that you should weigh the truck to find it. Is the bell housing bolt accurate enough? Scales are stupid expensive and I haven’t found any place to rent them.
I have an 86 Chevy 4x4 and I plan to go to a link setup. Thanks for the video!
For the purposes of the calculator the upper bell housing bolt works fine. It's a rough estimate but it gets pretty close
Cat certified truck scales usually found at truck stops. 12$ . also grain elevators and scrap yards usually have scales. Not as accurate though. Posted for future reference.
How exactly do you find the 3 link calcutor?
Dose it mater with your Center portion comes in at the bottom or can you turn it around to go in at the top
So what happens if you're upper and lower links are parallel?
So how long should your upper link be in relation to your lower links? I’ve heard your lower links should be 75 percent as long as your upper link
what is the tube size for 4 link suspension ???
When I converted my 77 GMC Jimmy to a 3 link I thought my head was going to explode from all the info on the web. In the end I focused on link separation and instant center. I didn’t use any calculators just a degree finder a tape measure and a lot of trial and error. I sourced most of my parts from Ballistic Fabrication but modified every bracket I bought to make it work. Check out a short clip on my TH-cam page. Anyone can do it just take your time.
Stumbled across this vid as I'm doing research on Barns 4wd link kits. Do you have a vid on your shock choices for this set up?
Glad you stumbled in! For the front 3 link setup I went with 14 inch king coilovers and a hydraulic bump stop. I had these coilovers initially on my radius arm setup, I briefly talked about them in one of our first videos about link suspension. It would have been on 2017 so it's a pretty old video. I did update these shocks later on by adding fox DSC reservoirs to them for better tunability and performance. That is in my shock tuning video from a couple years ago.
Great information. Where can I get one of those hoodies. I love it.
We sell t shirts and hoodies through t spring but anything else is on our website Recklesswrenchgarage.com
Thanks for watching!
Going to be building a 3 link for my 05 grand cherokee since no one makes them anymore and came across this video. With it being the rear, would the length of lowers compared to uppers be as big of a deal? Or what are your recommendations as far as lengths go? Longer lower, shorter upper, vice versa? Thanks for the info as well. The video was very helpful. May be looking into a SAS soon as well. IFS is poo and very restricting with no aftermarket support on the WK
For the rear the bigger consideration is pinion angle through travel. The front you have to worry about steering caster but the rear is easier. Set it up so your pinion and driveshaft work well through travel and send it!
@@RecklessWrenchGarage good deal! Thanks!!
with those upper links forming a triangle, in theory you would not need a panhard bar, would you? especially if you use short upper links. many trucks(full size trucks) use that on their rear axles.(and for example land rover)
Correct, that’s how the rear is on both of our trucks. This front axle is only a 3 link though, so it does require a panhard bar.
How much caster is on that axle?
Anti-dive 100% is the best? For all purposes
I like this video🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙🤙
I would like to find a channel like this in Spanish, I like this topic, do you know of any channel in Spanish? Thanks greetings
How much caster is on that axle
11:06 why not go with a watts link setup instead of a panhard bar? As that’ll keep it as centered as possible
A few reasons;
-The bracketry required to run a watts link could interfere with ground clearance.
-A watts link setup has to attach in the center of the axle and reaches to both sides of the frame. This will cause interference with the steering components.
-With the amount of travel we’re getting up front, a watts link wouldn’t be ideal.
Overall, it’s really just a lot more parts to try fitting in front of the axle, under the frame, without binding, or causing interference.
What bracket did you use to attach the arm above the diff?
The one showed in this video was a custom made one from plate. When I installed this axle under the Ranger I had to move the upper mount to the passenger side for clearence
Why are you getting rid of the Dana 44 you have put front now?
Out front*
The V8, low gears and 37s lasted for a long time without issue. I recently broke a u-joint and shaft and it spurred me to upgrade. I always had to drive conservative on the trail due to concerns of breakage. I may want 40 inch tires in the future so I'm just building for that.
Just a question. If the link is built with 33s and a decision is made to go 35s, will it make a difference?
The link seperation at the axle end may need to be changed with larger tires. The bigger the tire, the more torque will be working against the upper link trying to "roll" the axle over. A jump from 33 to 35 probably wouldn't warrant changing the geometry. A jump to a 37 or a 40, I would suggest making sure you have adequate seperation for the increased forces.
RecklessWrenchGarage awesome. Thanks much for the response guys. Stay safe.
So do you have to solid axle swap in order to do this?
Yes
So what's better 3 link or 4 link
There are many variables in comparing the two. There are a few types of different four links that have different pros and cons. The biggest factor in a four link is packaging the links in a frame and body setup. Many vehicles cannot fit a four link easily without major relocation of components or a custom fabricated frame
I think it's ironic that what everyone calls a 3 link is technically a 4 link and a 4 link is a 5 link. I have a true 3 link on a VW/Chevy Hybrid. A arm upper with lower control arms and coil overs in front and 3/4 elliptic leaves in the rear. Working great since 2002
Yeah the terminology can be weird. But there are 4 links, that only have 4 links. The two rear link suspensions we built are setup that way.
What axle side lower track bar mount is that? I know top is barnes4wd.
That is a custom fabricated piece
@@RecklessWrenchGarage okay thanks, I replayed all the front axle videos and there wasn't any mention or details on it. Unless I missed it? Like the design for sure for my idea on my build.
Yeah that bracket was already on the axle housing when I bought it used so I don't have any video of it
@@RecklessWrenchGarage thanks man I appreciate it. Looks like its slight clocked outward towards front of truck? Which works nicely to match how you moved the top bracket as far forward as possible to help clear the K member etc.
@@RecklessWrenchGarage wonder if this bracket would be similarly offset to the one your running.. www.barnes4wd.com/316-Thick-Offset-Axle-Panhard-Bracket_p_351.html
Any reason you didnt go with a 4 link
Mostly due to space availability. There isn’t enough room to fit an upper link on both sides.
Why did it take so long to make this video?!?
All you were doing was talking about the optimum dive angle with your magnum shafts and having the appropriate size shank to....finish the job?
Did I get that right???
🤣😂🤣
Great detail. I learned a few things and can see why it took a bit to make a clear and concise video.
Still looking forward to a garage tour or tool box tour!
There's few things better than an extended magnum shank
@@RecklessWrenchGarage agreed!
👍👍👍👍🔝
I noticed that both of your lower-link axle-mounts are horizontal and seem to purposely put your lower links in a direct line with your axle tube. I'm not a suspension expert but I believe this is a mistake and will create a lot of slop in your axle when accelerating or decelerating; when your axle pulls forward, the whole axle will easily rotate backward. When you apply the brakes or decelerate, the whole axle will EASILY rotate forward, much more so than if the link mount was directly below the axle tube. Both scenarios messes with your pinion angle. This is why factory axles have their lower links directly below the axle tube so that any slop in your joints does not account for as much axle tube rotation, and factory suspension parts need to last a long time. You should expect this characteristic to show up early and worsen exponentially as your link joints begin to wear in and wear out. I understand that you're attempting to have as much clearance as possible but I would like to predict that your pinon angle is going to do some very funny things! I've never seen it done, but I believe link mounts directly above the axle tube should also be acceptable, but at the expense of front drive shaft extension during suspension travel.
Controlling the axle wrap or "roll" is done by gaining seperation between the upper and lower links. Since the lower links are not below the axle centerline, the upper link will have to be built higher to help manage that.
Where’s Kris?
Hiding. 😆
I just left the PVC way cheaper
😂😂😂
gear info get a mic instead of speaking so far from the mic . thanks bruh!
yr mama
Maybe start by getting rid of that shity solid axle lol irs is far better
You're face is quite
REALLY you don't know the differnce between a panard bar and a track bar...... and you're giving advice on suspension WTF
Please elaborate and explain the difference...
It the same thing.... 🤔
The link that provides lateral location of the axle is a track bar... Invented by the panhard auto company of france... The same thing as panhard bar. You comment on a Suspension video and don't know that panhard and track bars are the same thing Wtf?
Paul Debenham A Panhard bar and track bar are one in the same.
I’m assuming you’re confusing those with a diagonal bar, which essentially serves the same purpose, but is mounted different and only really used on drag cars.