i met a 6.5 hater on my dad’s deer lease and I thought to myself he’s silly but I couldn’t remember what to tell him. Because I myself do not own a 6.5. Then when I got back from the lease I watched some more Spomer vids and re-realized about cartridge and grain choices. Dude said that every single deer he shot with his 6.5 ran away. Claimed perfect shot placement, as one may😅. But I couldn’t remember what to say and he was an older fella who would get offended if a 38 year old adult male(me) would take issue with him saying his 6.5 wasn’t worth crap for deer when, from videos I see my own self, that is obviously not true. But again I couldn’t remember to ask him about his specific cartridge choice in the moment we talked, hahhaha, because I myself do not yet own a 6.5. Since I am a cheapo and I like my old 30-30 and 243 that I’ve had since a boy.
Ron, I am impressed that an experienced rifleman like you would be open to suggestions from your audience! To be willing to adjust your holding and body positions allows for improvements over what you have long held as “Your Way”. That’s how we improve and or confirm our current practices. Well done. Pop Park
Great video. I have that same 1500 in a 6.5 prc and absolutely love it. Btw my 11 year old son has been binge watching every TH-cam video you have created so for that I thank you. I’d rather him learn off of your videos rather than play some goofy video game
Thanks Jeff. And a big shout out to your son. I trust you'll guide him in becoming the kind of responsible, helpful, honest, hard working man this world needs more of. Cheers.
Love the videos Ron. Keep'em coming. Love your wisdom and knowledge of the shooting world. Stuff like thus will be lost if we don't pay attention and kearn from someone like you and many others that have and know the same things. I could watch your videos all day.
I have a pro chrono and during these short days I’m not able to shoot too far into the evening. I decided to go to ace hardware and buy two cheap $6 mechanics light and I duct taped them to the light defusers over each sensor. It worked surprisingly well… great video Ron! Thanks for working on copper loads, it helps us Californians out!
Best thing I ever did for my reloading process is I got rid of that same chronograph you’re using. Magneto Speed although not perfect it seems to be pretty close. Ever since I bought that I have way more confidence in my work.
I load with IMR7828 SSC for my 6.5x55 and my 260 Remington (also for my .375 and 30-338). While I was in my Lee loading manual, I noticed that the 6.5 Creedmore used the exact loads of 7828 as both of my 6.5s. I've shot the 260 Rem with the max weight of 7828 and 140 gr spire points out to 400 Yds, and it was very accurate combination.
I use the same powder as you in my 6.5 Swede and my mix gives me 2,850 fps +/- about 15fps or so, and I have found it accurate too though I use 139gr Lapua Scenar bullets target shooting. Nice One 👍🏻 Regards, Steve (UK)
Mr. Ron, I use 127 grain LRX bullets from Barnes and it works great. Got an antelope at 440 yards, behind the shoulder but still dropped her. Exit wound was small but internal damage was great. And that was from 16" barrel and fairly mild load, only 2500fps at the muzzle.
Very educational. Thanks for showing the use of the ballistic calculator. I always did the old saw of zeroung for about 1.5" high at 100 yds. Seeing some things online, and your use of ballistic charts in the videos, i realize i need to be higher at 100 with most stuff. So i need to adjust a few things. That Howa is doing incredibly well. Wonder if it comes in a 7mm-08. I have been contemplating an upper end Vanguard thus chambered, and since Howa builds those (at least the barreled actions, anyway), i should consider the Howa line. Wouldn't mind the mini action in 7.62x39 either.......
We live way off the paved road too (in western NC). Was walking the pups the other evening, (coyotes are bad again and won't let my little one walk by himself after dark!!!) Had a doe and her little one watch us walking, funny how used to us they can get🙂 She usually gives birth to twins, so its unusual for her to have one... Have fun Ron, and good luck on your hunt!!! Always enjoy your informative shows!!!
I like the fact that you show true life experiences . I do not miss using those light sensor chronys. But yes agree with before mentioned give garmin a call I bet they will send one to you for review and or maybe to keep for a mister Ron Spomer
Hello Ron. I had a similar problem with my chronograph today. I was shooting at 100yrds and had 2 black circles to aim at on the left side of my target stand and 2 on the right. When shooting at the targets on the left my chronograph did not register. But when I shot at the targets on the right the chronograph worked fine. Turned out the bullets passing through the chronograph on the left were just missing the sensors. The bullets on the right were passing over the sensors and worked fine. I made a slight chronograph adjustment and no more issues. The chronograph sensors are not that wide so you have to make sure your bullets pass over them when shooting a target with left and right aiming points. This might not be your problem but it's something to keep in mind.
Thanks for the tip, Nils, but those angled steel rods atop my chrono are supposed to outline the edges of what the light traps "see," so I should have been good. I also cleaned those sensors. Sometimes they can get covered in dust or bird droppings etc. I'll dig deeper and figure things out. I also want to check out the new Garmin chrono.
man i wanna foray into reloading but i’m a city dweller in an apartment soooooo it doesn’t seem very realistic to me at the current point. I gotta settle for just traveling out to the range to practice with store bought stuff which ain’t half bad i suppose
A friend of mine used to have his press and measure mounted on a wood top attached to a small rolling tool chest (which would serve as the base for a 2 or 3 piece set). The drawers gave him additional storage space. I think it was an old Craftsman, but i am sure ones like it are still made by somebody. I think i saw something like it in an article on small space reloading too. The Kobalt line at Lowe's is pretty good. My bench is actually one of their medium size workbenches. Even came with a power strip and a light. My other thought is something like a simple nightstand from a garage sale or thrift store. You might have to add some plywood on top, but that should be easy. And drawers would give yoy storage space. Many have open bottom areas, which would give you storage space. Also, you could add some weight down there for extra stability. Sonething like shot bags, weight plates, or better yet lots of bullets! Like the 500 count boxes of cast handgun bullets. A nightstand might be a liitle low, but u could probably make a base for it to raise it up, and scee it together. It could be something as simple as a couple of pieces of 2x4 or 4x4 screwed together on each end of the nightstand. Or pieces on each side of the nightstand, forming a square base. I realize you may not have a place to cut lumber, but surely one of your friends has a garage or a driveway (and a circular saw) where you can. You can pay him back with a 12 pack, and maybe he might even want to load with you. Anyway, a few random thoughts. Hope they help. I feel your pain. I have lived in small places for some time now. My bench and all my loading stuff, safe, most of the collection, books, outdoor gear, appliances, rolling tool box etc are all in storage. Good luck. Hope it works out for you
Dear Ron. Darkening the bullet has very very rarely worked for me but I tried something else that DID Work. (I have a Caldwell version of a “Sky screen” type of Chrono’…) that looks like yours there. Think about it Ron. How do these Skyscreen type devices work…..?? You need a reasonable amount of strong, un-flickering light to come through the screens and then on into those two registering light cells; one that starts the timer and the other that stops it, giving the velocity of the projectile that crosses between them. The light needs to be fairly directly impinging on the screens from above, then to those registering light cells, with the projectile crossing between those two elements. With your machine setup as you had it - with the sunlight coming in from more or less at 90* off to the side in that low Winter sun, the line of sight from light source, through the screens, interrupted by the bullet(s) and on in to the recording light cells just won’t happen!! It’s out of step! The way to get this to work is to do as I do and tip your chrono over on its side, (with the screens being on the sunny side) and then shooting between screens and chrono body as usual. It seems a bit weird but it will then work as it should, with strong stable light coming straight through those screens, going over the passing bullets then on into the chrono body to be recorded over the light cells! Try it Ron and I think you won’t be disappointed… Kindest Regards, Steve Makin (UK)
Thanks for that darkened-bullet tip/trick! Who'dathunkit! Agreed with "I think I'm in Love!" Bought one for my son, loved the light weight! And low recoil at the range was so nice and easy! And definitely the rifle can shoot better groups than I can do off a roled-up jacket!
Mr Ron I have the same chronograph and I tilt it towards the sun. And it works just fine . I’ve been using the same one for 10 years 😅. Thank you for your videos, Keep up the good work
Ron, in my search for ways to use a chronograph indoors with a PCP rifle, take a look at the attached YT video I found. If your chrony uses similar technology, it might work better, even outdoors, with a light source a little brighter than the sun sitting near the horizon. The light sensors gather light from the direction the V wire mounts and diffuser plastic panels point (in other words, almost straight up) and work best with near infrared light indoors, but also work less effectively with white light. With the sun so low on the horizon in northern USA, you just ain't getting enough light on the sensors, so as another commenter has suggested, it wouldn't hurt to try tilting the chrony, but you might also try just adding a couple of light pucks (Harbor Freight has the blue ones for next to nothing) taped to the diffuser panels as at least one TH-camr has done. Note the data sheet graph in this video that shows the peak sensitivity is with infrared light although white light is also detected: th-cam.com/video/LfZtyHXMN7k/w-d-xo.html
Great video Ron. Sorry I missed the start but jumped back to the beginning and caught it all. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and the Spomer clan.
I was a little disappointed with my ruger american in 6.5 until I saw who tee who shoot some really good groups with hornady black. So I found some and tried it and got the same results
I have the same rifle and found Norma Whitetail 140gr to be very accurate. Currently on sale at Palmetto State for $ 30 a box. I’ve also had amazing groups with their proprietary ammo in 6.5 CM. At $20 - $23 a box it’s an incredible value and as a reloader i appreciate that the brass is very good quality. Lapua or Norma brass are my historical favorites ($1 per case). But getting loaded ammunition at the same price is hard to pass up.
I've played around with that ballistics calculator literally hundreds of times. Nerd central. But mostly pistol type bullets from handguns and/or lever actions. Also .30-30 blunt projectiles. It really gives a person a mental image of the capability of a given load and shooting platform, rather than just assuming a bullet is doing the same thing at a target as what is written on an ammo box.
Ron, I don't know if you tried this but sometimes choreographs (Light-based)if the battery is weak just won't pick up the bullet I would disconnect the battery and let the unit set for a couple of minutes then install a fresh new battery.
Howas suck my new carbon stalker is still at legacy arms…i received it brand new with barrel pinned to one side of the stock and blueing missing on the bolt and they sound like zippers when you work the action…I just got a used browning medallion and talk about quality for the same price…I now compare howas to the fax machine from office space…
Ron, If your mount will allow it, tilting the chronograph into the light direction can really help in the situation shown. If you can lean it over far enough, it is almost like having the sun directly overhead. Any tip angle change will change the reflection angle between bullet and chronograph and can help with glint. I can usually get things working with just a few trial shots/tip angles this way.
Huh, never thought of that, but makes sense. Thanks Roger. That's what I love about this venue. We all share and benefit from one another's discoveries.
Thank you for going through all of these iterations, it does help with the notes. Noting all of these details elevates our craft and allows us to position our intention exactly where we want it. 🦊Riki2Tails
Hey ron a few tricks to help your chrony. Make sure the eyes are clean Battery full Arches are clean Use a flashlight to shine down on the chrony Block sunlight coming from an angle.
I looked up that Garmin Xero C1 chrono. It uses radar to detect the bullet. Light shouldnt ever be a problem. Kinda like the Lab Radar chrono but much smaller. I have a Shooting Chrony, the green pro model. It has the readout on a cord. I have it set up so i can clamp the read out to the edge of my bench and a tri pod to hold up the sensors. I even sprung for the printer. I shoot a string and staple the printed read out to the taget and write notes on the target. I then put these targets in a notebook. I have such a notebook for each firearm. Anytime I want to reference the data on a firearm i just pull the note book out and have most every shot taken with that firearm. It still works fine. Being a bit of an electrical tinkerer, i built adaptes to power my chrono and printer from a 10 ah 12 battery. The one i use on my boat to power the sonar units. One on each end of the boat. This saves fooling around with weak or dead batteries. Having the printer option is on reason I bought the Shooting Chrony. I know they went out of business,so whe this one quits I'll figure something out then.
When I am bench shooting a hunting rifle I do not do free recoil. It is hard to get to the forend though to hold it down. So Instead when I bench shoot a hunting rifle with a bag or rest I will put my forward hand on top of the scope bell to hold the rifle down. The weight of my arm is usually enough since I am a pretty big guy. It works well for me. My hunting rifles are fairly light weight and if I did not do that the muzzle rise from a bench would be a bit much!
that tripod has a ball mount. should have angled it into the sun to reduce the possible error. also should have brought out a lightweight 22 on the second trip to test the chrono before burning your test loads to possibly get no data
i saw you on Backfire's video at shot show. looks like caldwell and labradar both have newer models of chronographs to compete with garmin's new one. did you check em out? seems like you need a new one.
best load depends on calibre bullet weight to suit the use to be followed, one of those new Berger loads will be interesting depending on velocity and shootability of course. a light creed for hiking with a variety of loads for different purposes carried just in case.
Highly interested in this rifle Ron and was interested to know if you were able to get it to group well with the Barnes Vor-Tx ammo mentioned in the previous video on this rifle. Thank you Ron.
Ron, you ever see the Zapruder film of the terminal ballistics for the 6.5 Carcano? In your experience, have you ever taken game and had the same results? I've saw the same results, 50 meters with a standard 5.56 w/69gr Sierra Match King HPBT. That game dropped straight down.
RON, please do a review on the Garmin XERO chronograph sence you need a new one ;) also funny how the howa shoots compared to the vanguard, fox and hen house routine.
Ron, I can see you wanting to use your original style of shooting.....i think 98% of us would prefer to think that you're comfortable and do things like you have for decades. You do you
Perhaps you need to add some sun shades to your chrono. Light cardboard cut a bit longer than the uprights that hold up your diffusures and a bit longer than the chrono. Tape one to each side if the chrono. This will stop light from coming in from the sides. You may still need to add some overhead lights on the diffusures. This will direct light down at the sensors.
It didn't look like it was cold enough (either day) to be outside the chronograph's operating temperature range. Is it possible that the sensors were dirty?
This is my only hobby other than treework and all I do…loadin 95gr v max in hornady cases with rem mag primers and h4350 gettin 3550fps to 3666fps accordin how hard I wanna work brass…br-2 primers I like but only have few left and just grabbed 2k mags to try..lee beam scales and getting better sd’s and es’s everyday…hope to get the high end lab scale someday and get as consistent as I can…130sierra tmk and tgk are great 6.5 bullets
It seems to be. I think the free recoiling forend I've been using for decades is fine with heavy, target-style rifles, but lightweights like this Howa do better with a bit of control.
I can’t believe I’m going to suggest something to Ron Spomer, but I noticed you have seating rings on your hammer bullets. If you were to use a Sinclair expander mandrel to size up your necks they wouldn’t push in so hard just my two cents worth.
Thanks, Big, but those are relief grooves on the Hammer bullets, similar to those on the Barnes TSX and family. Copper bullets with relief grooves put less surface area in contact with the bore and give dipslaced copper a space in which to flow. All of this aids precision, seems to increase MV due to less friction, and reduces fouling. The Hammer grooves are double radius. This minimizes the surface area touching the bore even more than do traditional right-angle grooves. I am not crimping my loads.
I just don't see being able to guage velocity like that shooting uphill. Bullet drop tables go out the window when shooting uphill. Am I missing something?
CAn you put up a piece of cardboard to block the sun light from directly hitting the chronograph light detectors? If the only source of light they can detect is the sun light hitting the sky screens, then the bullet can create a distinct shadow. If that does not work, and the battery is good, then it is likely too cold. Transistors have a temperature range in which they can work effectively, and it the air temperature may be below that.
Forever just like a 308. I bought a Savage 12FV in 6.5Cm almost 10 years ago, I go thru 500-600 rounds a year and last time I bore scoped the barrel there was no fire checking in the leade and the bore looked pristine and it was still shooting down to .3moa with my 123gr Win748 handloads.
@@lancekrystoff9619 Well, all that may be true. I personally am not recoil sensitive at all, and I am of very average build in all ways. The few times I have taken multiple shots at a running deer, usually while standing in an open field, I didn't notice the recoil. Just not an issue. By the way, where I live, we use shotguns, so I have a Savage 210F (the original one) with a 24" rifled barrel and shoot 3" heavy saboted rounds. I am sure the recoil impulse will be much greater than the 6.5CM. As for sound, you do realize that deer, and most other game do not know about action at a distance. Through much experience (although not nearly as much as Ron), I find that the deer do not avoid areas where they heard loud sounds. What I have observed and was first told by a very experienced relative who hunted long before I was born, is that after a short time, the deer will often circle around to the same spot. There was a reason they were there in the first place. If the sound issue is for the shooter, then what I have found is that I generally take one shot, and no more than three. I do not wear hearing protection hunting and have suffered no ill effects. This applies to both the shotgun and my .44 Mag revolver. The only exception might be if you are in a blind of some sort, but then you can wear conventional hearing protection. You certainly aren't going to hear the deer from in there. So, all that said, I think that this is just another example of using a new gadget just because it is new. My opinion of course.
@@louisgiokas2206”All that may be true” because it is. Plain and simple. Short of weight, or barrel length, there is really no disadvantage to using a suppressor, yet there are many advantages. Are they a necessity? Absolutely not. They aren’t anything new, either. They’ve just gained in popularity due to their advantages. I’m not a recoil sensitive shooter either. I’ve hunted with a number of different rifles and cartridges over the years, but I’ve hunted primarily with a 7mm Rem Mag since I was about 16. The noise factor really doesn’t make a significant difference to me either. As far as deer hearing a shot, I can’t disagree that it probably doesn’t make a super significant difference. If you’re not shooting subsonic, there’s still a report when firing anyway. However, it certainly doesn’t seem to disturb the peace in the woods as much upon shooting, and things calm down way quicker. With varmints, they are far more advantageous. Just a couple weekends ago I called in a pair of coyotes. I didn’t have my suppressor on my.22-250 that day for some reason, but it certainly would’ve made killing the second one easier . The second dog had me pegged after the first shot, and ran to a draw a couple hundred yards away from me where I assume he stood barking at me for a couple minutes before I could coax him back into sight. Your opinion is your opinion and you are undoubtedly entitled to it, but it is largely based on misinformation or lack of information on the matter. That is my opinion.
@@lancekrystoff9619 Misinformation? Look who is peddling misinformation. You totally ignore the evolution of hunting rifles over the last 20 years. They have become lighter and handier. Adding cans on the end makes them bulkier, more unwieldly and heavier. This is fine for static hunting. Go for it. But if I am going be on the move through different types of terrain without a gun bearer, then no thanks. Come on man!
@@louisgiokas2206 Where in my comment did I say anything that was “misinformation?” You seem to have missed the part of my comment where I talk about weight/barrel length being the only significant disadvantages to a suppressor. I clearly recall stating that in my comment. There’s also a relatively easy solution for that disadvantage, too. A hunter who is on the move a lot could likely enjoy the benefits of a shorter barrel on his rifle in a cartridge such as a .308 which works well with a short barrel. With a 16-18” barrel that could put your overall length WITH a 6” can at a maximum of 26”, and there are plenty of suppressors such as the Silencer Central Banish .30 which is modular and can be shortened. The trade off there would be the report from the shot would be a bit louder. Still better than without. I also said that they’re certainly not a necessity when hunting any game. My Dad and I have one already in a trust with two more that should arrive within the year barring the ATF does their part in an efficient manner, which I admit is a big ask. We don’t use it every time we go afield, but it’s certainly been a useful tool, and we’ve never really regretted bringing it along when we did. You also talk about rifles becoming generally lighter over the years, which is absolutely true. There are suppressors designed specifically for backcountry hunting. There are also plenty of guys that are more than content with toting around 7-8 or even 9 lb rifles in the backcountry. A suppressor certainly isn’t conducive to or even worth the potential added weight in all situations. I had already implied that in my original comment. You said before that you deer hunt with shotguns. I personally wouldn’t even live in a state that required the use of shotguns or muzzleloaders only. A suppressor probably might not even be worth the investment to you. So be it. Fact of the matter is, it’s not a coincidence that more and more people are purchasing suppressors. As certain places become more and more developed, it’s only going to become more practical to own one, even if for no other reason than mitigating the “nosy neighbor” factor.
I put a piece of cardboard over the top of my chronograph. Only when the sun is to bright. Cloudy days are the only time it works properly. Never have issues with cardboard over the top.
I think I overdo my ethics when I over do my reloading for accuracy with hunting bullets, it don't take five rounds for me either, but my first shot is the only one I will need. I have been hand loading for 45 years, and I still don't know anything.
Ron: it is time for the Garmin. Rationalize it by claiming you save money by having to reshoot shots. I cannot wait to throw my MagnetSpeed in the trash.
Not major reasons other than the Swaros are more streamlined, a bit lighter in weight, esp. the Z3 and 5 series. I've hunted with many Zeiss and they are excellent.
You said you had three inches of drop at 300 yards but is that truly the case. It would be the case if the barrel were not aimed upward but level with earth so to speak. If it were level with earth the drop could be truly measured. Aren't you determining how much elevation to hold to allow only a 3 inch drop below zero at 300 yards?
i met a 6.5 hater on my dad’s deer lease and I thought to myself he’s silly but I couldn’t remember what to tell him. Because I myself do not own a 6.5. Then when I got back from the lease I watched some more Spomer vids and re-realized about cartridge and grain choices. Dude said that every single deer he shot with his 6.5 ran away. Claimed perfect shot placement, as one may😅. But I couldn’t remember what to say and he was an older fella who would get offended if a 38 year old adult male(me) would take issue with him saying his 6.5 wasn’t worth crap for deer when, from videos I see my own self, that is obviously not true. But again I couldn’t remember to ask him about his specific cartridge choice in the moment we talked, hahhaha, because I myself do not yet own a 6.5. Since I am a cheapo and I like my old 30-30 and 243 that I’ve had since a boy.
I have seen maximum loads developed in winter blow primers on hot summer day . I like the honesty of your tests.
You are the only one I have seen who showed how to use a ballistic chart in a clear and easy to understand way. Thank you.
Somebody needs a Garmin chronograph
Personally, I like my Magnetospeed chronograph, but that's just me.
The new Garmin Xero C1 chronograph looks promising.
Yes its so EZZZZZZZ
The new Garmin is the way to go. No more issues like Ron is having. I’ve fought with that too many times.
Literally was gonna say the same thing lol
Sometimes things just don't work out perfectly. There's no
Shame in struggling a bit. You
Are a great role model for all
Of us shooters.
Ron, I am impressed that an experienced rifleman like you would be open to suggestions from your audience! To be willing to adjust your holding and body positions allows for improvements over what you have long held as “Your Way”. That’s how we improve and or confirm our current practices. Well done. Pop Park
Awesome cant wait. Hopefully youtube notifies me this time. Ill probably just make a reminder on my phone timer/alarm clock.
Great video. I have that same 1500 in a 6.5 prc and absolutely love it. Btw my 11 year old son has been binge watching every TH-cam video you have created so for that I thank you. I’d rather him learn off of your videos rather than play some goofy video game
Thanks Jeff. And a big shout out to your son. I trust you'll guide him in becoming the kind of responsible, helpful, honest, hard working man this world needs more of. Cheers.
I just knocked off work and tuned into the channel. I would say I had a nice day because I learnt something from Ron
Love the videos Ron. Keep'em coming. Love your wisdom and knowledge of the shooting world. Stuff like thus will be lost if we don't pay attention and kearn from someone like you and many others that have and know the same things. I could watch your videos all day.
Pleased you're enjoying, Darren. Thanks for your kind words.
I have a pro chrono and during these short days I’m not able to shoot too far into the evening. I decided to go to ace hardware and buy two cheap $6 mechanics light and I duct taped them to the light defusers over each sensor. It worked surprisingly well… great video Ron! Thanks for working on copper loads, it helps us Californians out!
Did the same to get mine to work for checking air guns in the garage. Works a treat.
Best thing I ever did for my reloading process is I got rid of that same chronograph you’re using.
Magneto Speed although not perfect it seems to be pretty close. Ever since I bought that I have way more confidence in my work.
Great video as always. I like the caliber and use it regularly but with the 129 grain bullet. Merry Christmas and have a great new year!
I load with IMR7828 SSC for my 6.5x55 and my 260 Remington (also for my .375 and 30-338). While I was in my Lee loading manual, I noticed that the 6.5 Creedmore used the exact loads of 7828 as both of my 6.5s. I've shot the 260 Rem with the max weight of 7828 and 140 gr spire points out to 400 Yds, and it was very accurate combination.
I use the same powder as you in my 6.5 Swede and my mix gives me 2,850 fps +/- about 15fps or so, and I have found it accurate too though I use 139gr Lapua Scenar bullets target shooting.
Nice One 👍🏻
Regards,
Steve (UK)
Mr. Ron, I use 127 grain LRX bullets from Barnes and it works great. Got an antelope at 440 yards, behind the shoulder but still dropped her. Exit wound was small but internal damage was great. And that was from 16" barrel and fairly mild load, only 2500fps at the muzzle.
My opinion, Barnes knows full copper a lot better than Ham'r does.
@@exothermal.sprocket I agree. Personality I didn't try hammer but few close friends did and I think Barnes performs better.
Very educational. Thanks for showing the use of the ballistic calculator. I always did the old saw of zeroung for about 1.5" high at 100 yds. Seeing some things online, and your use of ballistic charts in the videos, i realize i need to be higher at 100 with most stuff. So i need to adjust a few things.
That Howa is doing incredibly well. Wonder if it comes in a 7mm-08. I have been contemplating an upper end Vanguard thus chambered, and since Howa builds those (at least the barreled actions, anyway), i should consider the Howa line. Wouldn't mind the mini action in 7.62x39 either.......
We live way off the paved road too (in western NC). Was walking the pups the other evening, (coyotes are bad again and won't let my little one walk by himself after dark!!!) Had a doe and her little one watch us walking, funny how used to us they can get🙂 She usually gives birth to twins, so its unusual for her to have one... Have fun Ron, and good luck on your hunt!!!
Always enjoy your informative shows!!!
n7565,
She has one fawn, the coyotes got the other . . .
☆
I like the fact that you show true life experiences . I do not miss using those light sensor chronys. But yes agree with before mentioned give garmin a call I bet they will send one to you for review and or maybe to keep for a mister Ron Spomer
Might need to put new vacuum tubes in that chronograph.
Hello Ron. I had a similar problem with my chronograph today. I was shooting at 100yrds and had 2 black circles to aim at on the left side of my target stand and 2 on the right. When shooting at the targets on the left my chronograph did not register. But when I shot at the targets on the right the chronograph worked fine. Turned out the bullets passing through the chronograph on the left were just missing the sensors. The bullets on the right were passing over the sensors and worked fine. I made a slight chronograph adjustment and no more issues. The chronograph sensors are not that wide so you have to make sure your bullets pass over them when shooting a target with left and right aiming points. This might not be your problem but it's something to keep in mind.
Thanks for the tip, Nils, but those angled steel rods atop my chrono are supposed to outline the edges of what the light traps "see," so I should have been good. I also cleaned those sensors. Sometimes they can get covered in dust or bird droppings etc. I'll dig deeper and figure things out. I also want to check out the new Garmin chrono.
man i wanna foray into reloading but i’m a city dweller in an apartment soooooo it doesn’t seem very realistic to me at the current point. I gotta settle for just traveling out to the range to practice with store bought stuff which ain’t half bad i suppose
A friend of mine used to have his press and measure mounted on a wood top attached to a small rolling tool chest (which would serve as the base for a 2 or 3 piece set). The drawers gave him additional storage space. I think it was an old Craftsman, but i am sure ones like it are still made by somebody. I think i saw something like it in an article on small space reloading too. The Kobalt line at Lowe's is pretty good. My bench is actually one of their medium size workbenches. Even came with a power strip and a light.
My other thought is something like a simple nightstand from a garage sale or thrift store. You might have to add some plywood on top, but that should be easy. And drawers would give yoy storage space. Many have open bottom areas, which would give you storage space. Also, you could add some weight down there for extra stability. Sonething like shot bags, weight plates, or better yet lots of bullets! Like the 500 count boxes of cast handgun bullets.
A nightstand might be a liitle low, but u could probably make a base for it to raise it up, and scee it together. It could be something as simple as a couple of pieces of 2x4 or 4x4 screwed together on each end of the nightstand. Or pieces on each side of the nightstand, forming a square base. I realize you may not have a place to cut lumber, but surely one of your friends has a garage or a driveway (and a circular saw) where you can. You can pay him back with a 12 pack, and maybe he might even want to load with you.
Anyway, a few random thoughts. Hope they help. I feel your pain. I have lived in small places for some time now. My bench and all my loading stuff, safe, most of the collection, books, outdoor gear, appliances, rolling tool box etc are all in storage.
Good luck. Hope it works out for you
Dear Ron.
Darkening the bullet has very very rarely worked for me but I tried something else that DID Work. (I have a Caldwell version of a “Sky screen” type of Chrono’…) that looks like yours there.
Think about it Ron. How do these Skyscreen type devices work…..??
You need a reasonable amount of strong, un-flickering light to come through the screens and then on into those two registering light cells; one that starts the timer and the other that stops it, giving the velocity of the projectile that crosses between them. The light needs to be fairly directly impinging on the screens from above, then to those registering light cells, with the projectile crossing between those two elements.
With your machine setup as you had it - with the sunlight coming in from more or less at 90* off to the side in that low Winter sun, the line of sight from light source, through the screens, interrupted by the bullet(s) and on in to the recording light cells just won’t happen!! It’s out of step! The way to get this to work is to do as I do and tip your chrono over on its side, (with the screens being on the sunny side) and then shooting between screens and chrono body as usual.
It seems a bit weird but it will then work as it should, with strong stable light coming straight through those screens, going over the passing bullets then on into the chrono body to be recorded over the light cells!
Try it Ron and I think you won’t be disappointed…
Kindest Regards,
Steve Makin (UK)
Some battery powered LED lights might do the trick
Thanks for the video, you just saved me a lot of time load testing 😊
Thanks for that darkened-bullet tip/trick! Who'dathunkit! Agreed with "I think I'm in Love!" Bought one for my son, loved the light weight! And low recoil at the range was so nice and easy! And definitely the rifle can shoot better groups than I can do off a roled-up jacket!
Mr Ron I have the same chronograph and I tilt it towards the sun. And it works just fine . I’ve been using the same one for 10 years 😅. Thank you for your videos, Keep up the good work
If a bullet goes through at an angle you will have incorrect readings. Buy Doppler and don’t look back.
Ron, in my search for ways to use a chronograph indoors with a PCP rifle, take a look at the attached YT video I found. If your chrony uses similar technology, it might work better, even outdoors, with a light source a little brighter than the sun sitting near the horizon. The light sensors gather light from the direction the V wire mounts and diffuser plastic panels point (in other words, almost straight up) and work best with near infrared light indoors, but also work less effectively with white light. With the sun so low on the horizon in northern USA, you just ain't getting enough light on the sensors, so as another commenter has suggested, it wouldn't hurt to try tilting the chrony, but you might also try just adding a couple of light pucks (Harbor Freight has the blue ones for next to nothing) taped to the diffuser panels as at least one TH-camr has done. Note the data sheet graph in this video that shows the peak sensitivity is with infrared light although white light is also detected: th-cam.com/video/LfZtyHXMN7k/w-d-xo.html
Great video Ron. Sorry I missed the start but jumped back to the beginning and caught it all. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you and the Spomer clan.
I was a little disappointed with my ruger american in 6.5 until I saw who tee who shoot some really good groups with hornady black. So I found some and tried it and got the same results
I have the same rifle and found Norma Whitetail 140gr to be very accurate. Currently on sale at Palmetto State for $ 30 a box. I’ve also had amazing groups with their proprietary ammo in 6.5 CM. At $20 - $23 a box it’s an incredible value and as a reloader i appreciate that the brass is very good quality. Lapua or Norma brass are my historical favorites ($1 per case). But getting loaded ammunition at the same price is hard to pass up.
Loved that,
Thank you.
I've played around with that ballistics calculator literally hundreds of times. Nerd central. But mostly pistol type bullets from handguns and/or lever actions. Also .30-30 blunt projectiles. It really gives a person a mental image of the capability of a given load and shooting platform, rather than just assuming a bullet is doing the same thing at a target as what is written on an ammo box.
Ron, I don't know if you tried this but sometimes choreographs (Light-based)if the battery is weak just won't pick up the bullet I would disconnect the battery and let the unit set for a couple of minutes then install a fresh new battery.
instead of hlding the forend down, try resting your hand over the front of the scope, worked wonders for me
The Real Gunsmith channel, or Randy Selby, has a video on this that taught me the benefits of this as well.
@@robertneal4112 that's where I learnt. Helped me greatly
Don’t touch the barrel when it’s free floated
@@DocHudson420 it's not touching the barrel
Time to get Garman to send you one of their new Xero chronographs.
Howas suck my new carbon stalker is still at legacy arms…i received it brand new with barrel pinned to one side of the stock and blueing missing on the bolt and they sound like zippers when you work the action…I just got a used browning medallion and talk about quality for the same price…I now compare howas to the fax machine from office space…
Ron, If your mount will allow it, tilting the chronograph into the light direction can really help in the situation shown. If you can lean it over far enough, it is almost like having the sun directly overhead. Any tip angle change will change the reflection angle between bullet and chronograph and can help with glint. I can usually get things working with just a few trial shots/tip angles this way.
Huh, never thought of that, but makes sense. Thanks Roger. That's what I love about this venue. We all share and benefit from one another's discoveries.
Oh yeah Merry Christmas.
WATCHING FROM DOLES GA.!!!!!!!
Never heard of it...
But then again, you probably never heard of Missoula, Mt. neither . . .
☆
Thank you for going through all of these iterations, it does help with the notes. Noting all of these details elevates our craft and allows us to position our intention exactly where we want it. 🦊Riki2Tails
Merry Christmas all. Howdy Ron😁
Did you enter the correct scope height???
Should be center to center of scope to bore
Makes a difference in NC
Hey ron a few tricks to help your chrony.
Make sure the eyes are clean
Battery full
Arches are clean
Use a flashlight to shine down on the chrony
Block sunlight coming from an angle.
I looked up that Garmin Xero C1 chrono. It uses radar to detect the bullet. Light shouldnt ever be a problem. Kinda like the Lab Radar chrono but much smaller.
I have a Shooting Chrony, the green pro model. It has the readout on a cord. I have it set up so i can clamp the read out to the edge of my bench and a tri pod to hold up the sensors. I even sprung for the printer. I shoot a string and staple the printed read out to the taget and write notes on the target. I then put these targets in a notebook. I have such a notebook for each firearm. Anytime I want to reference the data on a firearm i just pull the note book out and have most every shot taken with that firearm.
It still works fine. Being a bit of an electrical tinkerer, i built adaptes to power my chrono and printer from a 10 ah 12 battery. The one i use on my boat to power the sonar units. One on each end of the boat. This saves fooling around with weak or dead batteries.
Having the printer option is on reason I bought the Shooting Chrony. I know they went out of business,so whe this one quits I'll figure something out then.
When I am bench shooting a hunting rifle I do not do free recoil. It is hard to get to the forend though to hold it down. So Instead when I bench shoot a hunting rifle with a bag or rest I will put my forward hand on top of the scope bell to hold the rifle down. The weight of my arm is usually enough since I am a pretty big guy. It works well for me. My hunting rifles are fairly light weight and if I did not do that the muzzle rise from a bench would be a bit much!
Merry Christmas Ron , Thanks for Sharing all Year 🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄🎄
Hey Ron. Great video
Thank you
that tripod has a ball mount. should have angled it into the sun to reduce the possible error.
also should have brought out a lightweight 22 on the second trip to test the chrono before burning your test loads to possibly get no data
i saw you on Backfire's video at shot show. looks like caldwell and labradar both have newer models of chronographs to compete with garmin's new one. did you check em out? seems like you need a new one.
Another Great Video Ron 💯💥💥💥💥💥💥💥
I really enjoy these videos, thank you :)
Merry Christmas Ron & to the rest of the Spomer family.
What do you think about the Howa 1500 super lite ?
I’m impressed with how clean your reloading bench is😎
Mine is a big messy🤪
Perspective! I think mine is too cluttered and messy. If cleanliness is next to godliness, I'm a devil.
best load depends on calibre bullet weight to suit the use to be followed, one of those new Berger loads will be interesting depending on velocity and shootability of course. a light creed for hiking with a variety of loads for different purposes carried just in case.
My the best load is 41gr H4350 + 127 Barnes (2700fps) or 140gr ELD, group less than 0.5MOA by 5 shots but I have Tikka :)
Highly interested in this rifle Ron and was interested to know if you were able to get it to group well with the Barnes Vor-Tx ammo mentioned in the previous video on this rifle. Thank you Ron.
Ron, interesting video as always. Any game in those mountains behind you? That's a nice landscape!
For deer try the 99 Hammer Hunters, been testing 2 years , great results on deer and pigs
That chronograph is as old as you are😂😂😂😂 and myself
Couple of card board sheets between the screens solves all your problem Ron, that what I do, take it a step further you can spray it black
Time for a Magento or Garmin chrono! Sucks to see you fighting with that one
Use a black sharpie to color up the shiny bullet to help with detection. Worked for me in a similar situation.
Yes indeed. I tried that in this video. You must have missed that part. Didn't work this time.
Garmin chrono supposed to be the best one yet!! I’m going to pick one up in April .. great upload really like those howa rifles
Ron...get a LabRadar system. I have used a few different types of chronographs and recommend the LabRadar.
Are you going to have to readjust the load(s) for summer temperatures?
Ron, you ever see the Zapruder film of the terminal ballistics for the 6.5 Carcano? In your experience, have you ever taken game and had the same results? I've saw the same results, 50 meters with a standard 5.56 w/69gr Sierra Match King HPBT. That game dropped straight down.
RON, please do a review on the Garmin XERO chronograph sence you need a new one ;) also funny how the howa shoots compared to the vanguard, fox and hen house routine.
Ron,
I can see you wanting to use your original style of shooting.....i think 98% of us would prefer to think that you're comfortable and do things like you have for decades.
You do you
Wonder if you angel it towards the sun! Even if it’s at a angle should read right
Years ago, Nosler made a 100 grn 6.5 mm Partition bullet which would give whitetails a real spanking.
Perhaps you need to add some sun shades to your chrono. Light cardboard cut a bit longer than the uprights that hold up your diffusures and a bit longer than the chrono. Tape one to each side if the chrono. This will stop light from coming in from the sides. You may still need to add some overhead lights on the diffusures. This will direct light down at the sensors.
It didn't look like it was cold enough (either day) to be outside the chronograph's operating temperature range. Is it possible that the sensors were dirty?
Magneto Speed doesn't have those issues for just checking velocity.
Love you Ron Spomer but it Still shocks me that Ron has an antique light tripping chronograph that works maybe 50% of the time.
Time to get a Garmin xero C1
absolutely....that thing he is using is total CRAP
This is my only hobby other than treework and all I do…loadin 95gr v max in hornady cases with rem mag primers and h4350 gettin 3550fps to 3666fps accordin how hard I wanna work brass…br-2 primers I like but only have few left and just grabbed 2k mags to try..lee beam scales and getting better sd’s and es’s everyday…hope to get the high end lab scale someday and get as consistent as I can…130sierra tmk and tgk are great 6.5 bullets
Looks like your seating die is making a mark on the bullet.
Is the holding the forend improving your accuracy? What are your thoughts?
It seems to be. I think the free recoiling forend I've been using for decades is fine with heavy, target-style rifles, but lightweights like this Howa do better with a bit of control.
I can’t believe I’m going to suggest something to Ron Spomer, but I noticed you have seating rings on your hammer bullets. If you were to use a Sinclair expander mandrel to size up your necks they wouldn’t push in so hard just my two cents worth.
Thanks, Big, but those are relief grooves on the Hammer bullets, similar to those on the Barnes TSX and family. Copper bullets with relief grooves put less surface area in contact with the bore and give dipslaced copper a space in which to flow. All of this aids precision, seems to increase MV due to less friction, and reduces fouling. The Hammer grooves are double radius. This minimizes the surface area touching the bore even more than do traditional right-angle grooves. I am not crimping my loads.
How are you liking the banish backcountry? I have one waiting for approval.
Love it.
Turn the crono upside down!!! Works every time!
Have a look at the new FX Chronograph
What height mounts do you run on the Howa Ron?
Hey Ron, I think you should ask Santa for the new Garmin chrono. 🦌🦌🦌🦌🦌🦌🦌🦌🦌🎅
New garmin x zero I see in the near future ron….my Caldwell was a gimmie so I make due
I just don't see being able to guage velocity like that shooting uphill. Bullet drop tables go out the window when shooting uphill. Am I missing something?
Swarovski is a rusty scope, well, which ones are the shiny ones then?
What rings and mounts are you using?
Ron are you in central Utah?
No disrespect intended. I just do not get the current trend of adding length and unwieldyness to rifles. Thanks for all the good info Ron
Better ask Santa for a new chronograph. 🎄
I like the 6.5-300 WEATHERBY it does not have much drop.
I load my 6.5creed with n555 and barnes lr 127 to 3021ft/s (921m/s). Sub 1/2 moa @ 100m (6-10mm). Es 13ft/s (4m/s).
CAn you put up a piece of cardboard to block the sun light from directly hitting the chronograph light detectors? If the only source of light they can detect is the sun light hitting the sky screens, then the bullet can create a distinct shadow. If that does not work, and the battery is good, then it is likely too cold. Transistors have a temperature range in which they can work effectively, and it the air temperature may be below that.
What is the average barrel life of the 6.5 creedmoor?
Forever just like a 308. I bought a Savage 12FV in 6.5Cm almost 10 years ago, I go thru 500-600 rounds a year and last time I bore scoped the barrel there was no fire checking in the leade and the bore looked pristine and it was still shooting down to .3moa with my 123gr Win748 handloads.
What is with the suppressor on a deer rifle? Is it for you, or for the deer?
Suppressors tend to reduce recoil and sound. Both are advantageous when hunting.
@@lancekrystoff9619 Well, all that may be true.
I personally am not recoil sensitive at all, and I am of very average build in all ways. The few times I have taken multiple shots at a running deer, usually while standing in an open field, I didn't notice the recoil. Just not an issue. By the way, where I live, we use shotguns, so I have a Savage 210F (the original one) with a 24" rifled barrel and shoot 3" heavy saboted rounds. I am sure the recoil impulse will be much greater than the 6.5CM.
As for sound, you do realize that deer, and most other game do not know about action at a distance. Through much experience (although not nearly as much as Ron), I find that the deer do not avoid areas where they heard loud sounds. What I have observed and was first told by a very experienced relative who hunted long before I was born, is that after a short time, the deer will often circle around to the same spot. There was a reason they were there in the first place.
If the sound issue is for the shooter, then what I have found is that I generally take one shot, and no more than three. I do not wear hearing protection hunting and have suffered no ill effects. This applies to both the shotgun and my .44 Mag revolver. The only exception might be if you are in a blind of some sort, but then you can wear conventional hearing protection. You certainly aren't going to hear the deer from in there.
So, all that said, I think that this is just another example of using a new gadget just because it is new. My opinion of course.
@@louisgiokas2206”All that may be true” because it is. Plain and simple. Short of weight, or barrel length, there is really no disadvantage to using a suppressor, yet there are many advantages. Are they a necessity? Absolutely not. They aren’t anything new, either. They’ve just gained in popularity due to their advantages.
I’m not a recoil sensitive shooter either. I’ve hunted with a number of different rifles and cartridges over the years, but I’ve hunted primarily with a 7mm Rem Mag since I was about 16. The noise factor really doesn’t make a significant difference to me either.
As far as deer hearing a shot, I can’t disagree that it probably doesn’t make a super significant difference. If you’re not shooting subsonic, there’s still a report when firing anyway. However, it certainly doesn’t seem to disturb the peace in the woods as much upon shooting, and things calm down way quicker.
With varmints, they are far more advantageous. Just a couple weekends ago I called in a pair of coyotes. I didn’t have my suppressor on my.22-250 that day for some reason, but it certainly would’ve made killing the second one easier . The second dog had me pegged after the first shot, and ran to a draw a couple hundred yards away from me where I assume he stood barking at me for a couple minutes before I could coax him back into sight.
Your opinion is your opinion and you are undoubtedly entitled to it, but it is largely based on misinformation or lack of information on the matter. That is my opinion.
@@lancekrystoff9619 Misinformation? Look who is peddling misinformation. You totally ignore the evolution of hunting rifles over the last 20 years. They have become lighter and handier. Adding cans on the end makes them bulkier, more unwieldly and heavier. This is fine for static hunting. Go for it. But if I am going be on the move through different types of terrain without a gun bearer, then no thanks.
Come on man!
@@louisgiokas2206 Where in my comment did I say anything that was “misinformation?” You seem to have missed the part of my comment where I talk about weight/barrel length being the only significant disadvantages to a suppressor. I clearly recall stating that in my comment.
There’s also a relatively easy solution for that disadvantage, too. A hunter who is on the move a lot could likely enjoy the benefits of a shorter barrel on his rifle in a cartridge such as a .308 which works well with a short barrel. With a 16-18” barrel that could put your overall length WITH a 6” can at a maximum of 26”, and there are plenty of suppressors such as the Silencer Central Banish .30 which is modular and can be shortened. The trade off there would be the report from the shot would be a bit louder. Still better than without.
I also said that they’re certainly not a necessity when hunting any game. My Dad and I have one already in a trust with two more that should arrive within the year barring the ATF does their part in an efficient manner, which I admit is a big ask. We don’t use it every time we go afield, but it’s certainly been a useful tool, and we’ve never really regretted bringing it along when we did.
You also talk about rifles becoming generally lighter over the years, which is absolutely true. There are suppressors designed specifically for backcountry hunting. There are also plenty of guys that are more than content with toting around 7-8 or even 9 lb rifles in the backcountry.
A suppressor certainly isn’t conducive to or even worth the potential added weight in all situations. I had already implied that in my original comment. You said before that you deer hunt with shotguns. I personally wouldn’t even live in a state that required the use of shotguns or muzzleloaders only. A suppressor probably might not even be worth the investment to you. So be it.
Fact of the matter is, it’s not a coincidence that more and more people are purchasing suppressors. As certain places become more and more developed, it’s only going to become more practical to own one, even if for no other reason than mitigating the “nosy neighbor” factor.
Maybe get a garmin chronograph. I can't afford one, but maybe you do.
I put a piece of cardboard over the top of my chronograph. Only when the sun is to bright. Cloudy days are the only time it works properly. Never have issues with cardboard over the top.
I think I overdo my ethics when I over do my reloading for accuracy with hunting bullets, it don't take five rounds for me either, but my first shot is the only one I will need. I have been hand loading for 45 years, and I still don't know anything.
Ron: it is time for the Garmin. Rationalize it by claiming you save money by having to reshoot shots. I cannot wait to throw my MagnetSpeed in the trash.
Why do you use Swarovski optics instead of Zeiss?
Not major reasons other than the Swaros are more streamlined, a bit lighter in weight, esp. the Z3 and 5 series. I've hunted with many Zeiss and they are excellent.
You said you had three inches of drop at 300 yards but is that truly the case. It would be the case if the barrel were not aimed upward but level with earth so to speak. If it were level with earth the drop could be truly measured. Aren't you determining how much elevation to hold to allow only a 3 inch drop below zero at 300 yards?