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in the evaporator, I cut off the flare nuts and I soldered both lines. This way you never have to worry that there's a leak in that hard to get to spot.
All flares have micro scratches. All dry flare connections leak. Some are leaks are practically negligible some are significant. Nylog helps to compensate for the imperfections. Nothing beats good quality copper tubing, good quality flaring tools, good workmanship and proper torque at the flares. If you have done everything right, it should not leak. But the higher pressures and the changing frequency of the vibrations(due to inverters) can affect the tightness when the unit is running. So that is where Nylog comes in, it gives you peace of mind . Nylog is fully miscible with the refrigerant and it is based on the same oil used for the compressor - read the product data sheets in case of doubt. Just make sure you use Nylog Blue for HFC systems and Nylog Red for HCFC etc. You don't need a lot of Nylog, since it is only to fill in the micro scratches. Avoid Nylog on the threads and the back of the flare nut since the torque will be affected and the friction on the flare threads is necessary keep it from coming loose. Back in the days when everything ran on 60HZ, we had less issues, but with inverters resonance can cause excessive vibration at certain frequencies.
Fantastic. A well done professional demonstration. I have a split AC that leaks all its R22 refrigerant in about 8 months. 4 times I recharged the refrigerant and the result was always the same. The last technician found out that the leak is through the copper flare near to the outdoor unit. Although previous technicians cut the pipe and do new flares perfectly, only the last technician found the cause is due to cracks developed when they tighten the nut. Never thought about thread sealant thought. I never saw one using the digital pressure reader. Also, the last one was heating his refrigerant R22 cylinder to get the gas into the compressor. Never seen that before. This video has been very informative.
Fabulous Chanel love the content and how it is explained. I gained my F gas qualification for domestic refrigeration 5 years ago however never used the knowledge and left the course with many questions, this Chanel has answered them all. I find myself in the position of having to requalify and can't begin to tell you how much this Chanel will help me keep up the good work.
I've always used a teeny tiny bit of blue leak lock on flare face over 15 yrs and never a problem ever. I agree it fills in micro scratches. Good video!
I installed 5 heads mini split 6 years ago without all those things, and still I have not leaks, and system works good. Everything it is how training you are and experience.
@@eddiegomez3628 They come with fittings that are threaded on one side specifically for that in various sizes. Torque to specs, pressure test and keep it moving my friend. Here is a link rectorseal.com/products/pro-fit-quick-connect-group/
Yeah, we don't know if the Nylog side had any potential for leaks. But the one leak that occurred on the dry side, should have been re-sealed with Nylog to see if it worked.
I love your videos educating me every day with new things 1st time I see someone actually testing nylog there always a argument and I always say if you make the right flair u need to put nylog its not going to leak I will put oil just that the knots should go on easier really appreciate your effort you work I wish I can give more 👍 up
Awesome video and perfect timing. Just bought a mini split and will be practicing my flares just like you did to make sure I have it down before the install. I’ll be doing the nylog and torque to spec. I think I’ll end up brazing the indoor connections because I can. Wish you could order these things with braze connnections. I enjoy all your videos, keep up the good work.
@@sprockkets I'm interested in the effects of the Nylog as it pertains to the marring that was on the adapter side (ie the valve side on a system), not the copper side.
Just curious, did you inspect the wet flares after the test to see if any of those flares had nicks or scratches in them that the nylon may have sealed?
Are usually take apart all the flowers that leak to look at them and if I’m in a hurry I cut them out and throw them in my tool bag to take apart later. Most of the time they were bad flare you can tell when somebody did not ring the edge because it leaves a little remark when you compress it. Occasionally somebody has an absolutely perfect flair. End it still leaks Occasionally they’ll have a perfect flare but they over tightened it I kneeled and compress the copper and cause a fracture But what people don’t understand it’s not the perfect flare that always counts. It’s the tens of thousands of times the copper actually cycles between hot and cold air temperatures and higher and lower pressures literally causes a mechanical movement of friction on the fitting that literally O’Neils and where is the copper causing the fitting to loosen up or fracture. So it gets down to the physics of the actual molecular level of the copper at south failing due to temperature or pressure cycling not the flare surface itself Everybody gets too focused and caught up on the surface face of the flare and that’s not the whole equation
It's NYLOG, not nylon and the formulation is a company secret; it never dries. It does not harm the system, but reputable manufacturers like Daikin or LG recommend as a lubricant to use their refrigeration oil. Also, not every manufacturer will give you the torque for wet and dry. You will have LG recommending wet with their own oil, Daikin will ask for dry. The "over the counter" units/brands don't even go as deep into the matter regarding dry or wet torque. Rule of thumb, go with the specs of the fittings and lines and you can't fail. Use a clutch-like flearing tool. Stay safe!
@@A.Dude. yep been using it for a few years. But I cut off flares and silver braze them. Only a few times I ever leave them. I sell LG MUTI V VRF Heat recovery system and install.
@@milotorres6894 yes, I think we all have experience with having to undo and redo somebody Stay Brite solder on the R410 system The only way I would possibly you Stay Brite. Is if I were to use flares and attach them and then after attaching them up line stay Brite on top of the flare to seal it up 👍 that may get my approval as being reliable
My experience once it's a good flare it holds perfectly fine, never had to use nylog or any other form of lubricant ; taking human error out the equation leaks are mostly due to poor copper quality
I feel the same way, but not being a tradesman and just a DIY'er, the nylog is insurance to me. Installed my first mini split few weeks ago, intend to install 5 more for zone heating and cooling. 3 of those are rooms that are only used in rare occasions,m one being a garage.
Great video, but curious why you're recommending NOT using nylog on the threads. Unless the manufacturer clearly specifies that the torque values are for dry threads, it's good mechanical practice to never install threads dry... Is there something I'm missing where those torque values were given for dry threads? Dry threads are way more prone to binding and defects causing improper torque... Plus the inability of the flare nut to spin on the back of the copper tube - nylog on the backside of flare, front side, and threads, has been a flawless method for me.
Because my log as a lubricant and it changes the friction rate on the metal threads so when you’re using a torque wrench you’re actually overtorquing when you add lubricants on threads compared to dry It’s a physics thing engineers know about this is why automotive technicians when assembling engines there are specific bolts that I absolutely have warnings about not lubricating and dry only when assembling using torque wrench or what’s called torque to yield method. And if you add a lubricant you can severely over torque the thread material beyond the yield strength of the metal and it will fatigue and fail later on. In some severe cases depending on the materials used example iron bolts in aluminum blocks you can literally ripped the threads right out of the block if you use lubricant
@@coldfinger459sub0 I understand that - and acknowledged it, it's clear and common knowledge that lubricating threads increases torque... I'm asking a specific question on a technical level about whether or not the manufacturers provided torque ratings for DRY fasteners or not. Dry fasteners also result in decreased torque... This isn't a dissimilar metals, nor a torque to yield application... I already know what you're explaining. I'm asking if there is a specific requirement from the manufacturer not to, or if this is just individual preference... The majority of HVAC techs that use nylog use it on the threads as well. Especially with flare fittings these are coarse threads and machining quality is often low.
@@epiphany6 Easy answer is YES DRY... Technicians putting it on the threads are just guessing and making up their own method. It’s only to go on the surface of the face of the flare only And if you want to do that one little extra , less then drop on the back of the flare. But not on the threads
I had a big job last year that had 226 mini splits/cassette units multiple big VRF systems. The guys used torque wrenches and did everything to manufacture specifications. About 50-60 different mini splits leaked after running thats with nylog the flares were not tight enough.
@@HVACR-Airman and that’s exactly why we cut out all the flares and braised them with silver brace never have a leak again no problems. If you 100% remove all the flares you 100% remove all the leaks created by flares
Great video . I've used Indian head gasket shellac before on numerous flares etc .that was not meant to be disassembled . Never had one seep through it .
I had a unit last year I just couldnt get sealed... the Nylog helped but didnt resolve it.. we surmised there was a deformation in the shape of the flare fitting on the outdoor unit itself.. it was the 3/8 suction line that leaked.. i could see it at 150 PSI... we ended up using those little copper flare sealing discs.. they look like black plastic but are actually copper.. used those with a little refrigeration oil and its held since.. the unit was used extensively in heat mode this last winter was Long and Lingered on and on.. I havent checked it, however theres been no complaints on peformace...
I rub fridge oil on the flare and the threads, use a battery free manual flare block and a couple of adjustable spanners. I tried nylog once, the poxy bottle leaked everywhere, so went back to tried and tested.
600psi for Fujitsu and 500 for Mitsubishi is what I have been doing. Also the digital manifold is great since you see the 10th decimal drop when it’s leaking. Also the cone on the flare tool needs to be perfect or you scratch the flare end. What a pain in the ass.....
I too would like to know the answer to this question. I DIY'd my mini split and I double flared, no Nylog, no torque wrench. Pressure test passed and deep vacuum held. Thanks
You are never supposed to use anything on flare fittings, they are to be completely dry. If lubricant is used, the pressure between the flares will push the lubricant out over a period of time, depending on the viscosity, and the nut will have to be re tightened or re torqued.
Very interesting and informati,ve. Separately, I would like to understand the machanical strength of the joint. If the joint was jostled, bumped, moved or bent, how does that affect the flare connection? (dry or wet). Also, i would like to understand how rotating the fitting in a way that would scratch or mar the surface of the compression joint. How much would you rotate the joint, before it starts to leak? Thanks.
I would like a list of the tools and lubricant used. I have been to several of my local supply companies and have yet to come across one that carries a tork wrench like that. I have worked on heat pumps that see 550psi on the heating cycle. So it’s important it is correct.
@UHURU! That’s actually what we had to do , after that they sent a factory rep put the service too on the system and recorded several hours of run time . Now the system has a ten year warranty It’s a ten ton city multi system
I generally put refrigerant oil on a lint free clean cloth and wipe all the faces. And I've never used a torque wrench knock wood haven't had a problem so far. 🍺🍺🥃🥃🍺🍇🏌 Stay safe. Retired(werk'n) keyboard super tech. Wear your safety glasses.
trick is use the flare tool and make your flare 99% the other 1% will flare when thightening down never had a leak that way. an old man thought me that trick
Great video as usual. so, what's your opinion/experience with Rectorseals' Pro-Fit quick connects BTW, love your manual/books. They are great for insomnia reading, I just need to re-read the chapters during the day because I remember only half(at best) from the night before. They are worth their weight! :~)
Flare fittings suck on 410a systems. I started using the flare seals as they work very well. The combination of high pressures and temperature changes make flare connections a very poor choice for high pressure refrigerant. If they were double flare fittings, we wouldn't have any leaks.
@@rivergate950 Yes, but update, I no longer use them. I had a couple issues where they were torqued and then must have compressed over time and then started leaking. I've had really good luck using the spin flare tool, no leaks yet. Little nylog and a torque wrench and should be good to go.
@@MrDeviousdom thanks, so you are using the spin flare bits that go into a drill to make your flares now? I think I will stick with my eccentrick block flare set.
@@rivergate950 yeah, from my experience, and I make a lot of flares, it works better than the eccentric flaring tool. One of the main reasons is that you do not have to deburr the inside of the tubing before flaring with the spin tool. Do whatever works for you
I found a tiny leak on my sman380v where the low side screws into the black manifold. I have not removed it and resealed it yet. I found it by drawing a vaccum on just the gauges down to 120 micron and put nylog around all the manifold fittings and instantly stopped losing vacuum. Held the vacuum for 30 mins hoping the nylog would be sucked into the leak. So far still good.
I know a lot of people hate using Teflon tape on the threads of those flared connections. However, what I do is i put just a very small amount on the threads without going over the lip connection, just the thread portion. I use nylog in the lip and on the back of the other nut that spins and call it a day. Now, there is an argument that metal to metal connection on those threads is the way to do it but damn, there are so many ideas out there from techs and from manufacturers that you don't know what you "should" do. I think Mitsubishi says that nylog is not recommended for their unit.. Go figure. 🤷♂️
Even if they don’t leak now you have two devices that are relying on mechanical friction and compression. Now add 100,00 or 1 million cycles or less of pressure raising and falling expanding and contracting the line set in a linear fashion on top of that I had 1 million cycles of heating and cooling as the system cycles on and off or up and down in temperature. Expansion and contraction of the two fitting face surfaces themselves including the threads. Mechanical items on friction at some point always fail in every industry in every application. They are actually moving to surfaces back in for scuffing and gallon each other at the molecular level. Cut out all flares and silver braised them done deal
@@coldfinger459sub0 These preinsulated line sets are very thin. Nowhere close to L copper. By the time you flare it it is work hardened and very thin. When you bubble the flare and then double it it has a second ring of copper that acts as a soft gasket. This folded over inner portion of the flare is not work hardened and acts as a soft gasket. I use an expensive Mastercool hydraulic flare tool but it only goes to 1/2. Rigid makes one that goes to 1/2 for around a hundred bucks. Try it, do a video, you will see it short order it is a far superior flare. By the way we do cupronicket brake lines also. Very similar to copper. We use to hammer flare 2" K copper for water services. When we were finished we would have to anneal the flare because it was work hardened. I anneal my copper oil pan drain gasket also in the same fashion but these line set flares are so thin you cant anneal them without melting them. Try it and tell me what you think.
@@anthonyspadafora1384 I completely agree with you the double flares that we do on stainless steel brake lines Ford high-pressure diesel lines are far superior than anything else double flair has been the high standard even back in my dad‘s day when he was young and when he showed me for making double flares for brake line. And using copper for even engine head gaskets work for decades. But when it comes to threaded flare fittings it’s the actual heating and cooling and mechanical friction of the threads themselves expanding and contracting over tens of thousands of cycles the copper just cannot handle it has nothing to do with how great the flare faces and how well it seals. It’s just a physics behind the problem with copper. This way many decades ago they stopped using copper on cars for any kind of lines fuel lines brake lines vacuum lines anything. Because of the vibration of a vehicle and the constant heating and cooling of components they would always fail. And we’re copper is superior for some sort of stationary pressurized fluid or need some mechanical strength with the most extreme durability they will use absolutely no flare fittings and everything will be silver brace.. Even in aerospace they have different levels of reliability and they only only trust copper and flares with mechanical bonded friction threaded fittings up to a certain degree and then they switch over to silver brazing when they step up to the next level of permanent reliability. It just comes down to the fact that mechanical fiction fittings relying on the spring tension of two metal parts threaded together eventually fail. Yes the thicker copper is nicer it’s heavier duty and it’s more reliable but it’s still copper and that lies the problem when using it under friction fittings with high pressure vibrations and pull stations and cycling between extreme cold and heat the mechanical aspect of the friction fittings always fail. I won 110% agree with you I was introduced to the master cool flaring tool when I was a child see my father I know exactly what you’re talking about they are far superior but when used with high-pressure refrigerant with the pool stations vibrations in hot and cold expansion and contraction it still comes down to it it’s copper that’s the one failure point and it’s the friction of the threads that give. if you used thick copper double flared properly torqued and then went over it with silver brazing then I would say it’s a successful flair
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in the evaporator, I cut off the flare nuts and I soldered both lines. This way you never have to worry that there's a leak in that hard to get to spot.
You should have taken the bad flare face and added some nylog i feel it would have actually sealed it up ,
not forever it will leak at some point
Everything leaks! But in this case, leak is to small in that time frame to detect.
You are good teacher! Keep your teaching at this levels! 👍
All flares have micro scratches. All dry flare connections leak. Some are leaks are practically negligible some are significant. Nylog helps to compensate for the imperfections. Nothing beats good quality copper tubing, good quality flaring tools, good workmanship and proper torque at the flares. If you have done everything right, it should not leak. But the higher pressures and the changing frequency of the vibrations(due to inverters) can affect the tightness when the unit is running. So that is where Nylog comes in, it gives you peace of mind . Nylog is fully miscible with the refrigerant and it is based on the same oil used for the compressor - read the product data sheets in case of doubt. Just make sure you use Nylog Blue for HFC systems and Nylog Red for HCFC etc. You don't need a lot of Nylog, since it is only to fill in the micro scratches. Avoid Nylog on the threads and the back of the flare nut since the torque will be affected and the friction on the flare threads is necessary keep it from coming loose. Back in the days when everything ran on 60HZ, we had less issues, but with inverters resonance can cause excessive vibration at certain frequencies.
Fantastic. A well done professional demonstration. I have a split AC that leaks all its R22 refrigerant in about 8 months. 4 times I recharged the refrigerant and the result was always the same. The last technician found out that the leak is through the copper flare near to the outdoor unit. Although previous technicians cut the pipe and do new flares perfectly, only the last technician found the cause is due to cracks developed when they tighten the nut. Never thought about thread sealant thought. I never saw one using the digital pressure reader. Also, the last one was heating his refrigerant R22 cylinder to get the gas into the compressor. Never seen that before. This video has been very informative.
Fabulous Chanel love the content and how it is explained. I gained my F gas qualification for domestic refrigeration 5 years ago however never used the knowledge and left the course with many questions, this Chanel has answered them all. I find myself in the position of having to requalify and can't begin to tell you how much this Chanel will help me keep up the good work.
I've always used a teeny tiny bit of blue leak lock on flare face over 15 yrs and never a problem ever. I agree it fills in micro scratches. Good video!
I installed 5 heads mini split 6 years ago without all those things, and still I have not leaks, and system works good. Everything it is how training you are and experience.
Good job!
No more flares for me I use the rector seal fittings. You should do a video on those if you can sir. Good Video!!!
👍 that's a good point 👍
What about where you have to thread on the nut at service port on the heatpump for the minisplit system. Does rector seal have something for that?
@@eddiegomez3628 They come with fittings that are threaded on one side specifically for that in various sizes. Torque to specs, pressure test and keep it moving my friend. Here is a link rectorseal.com/products/pro-fit-quick-connect-group/
@@eddiegomez3628 the fitting threads onto where the flare nut would normally go then you just slide the line into it.
Did you look at the link I sent? yes they do...
Would have been interesting if you had put Nylog on the leaking dry fitting. Would of shown if Nylog would help a minor damaged flare joint.
I use nylog all the time great stuff
Yes, I thought would fix it with Nylog... but nope...
Yeah, we don't know if the Nylog side had any potential for leaks. But the one leak that occurred on the dry side, should have been re-sealed with Nylog to see if it worked.
Thankyou for doing the lab work for the busy techs....
These videos are awesome. Simply laid out and concise.
Mitsubishi actually calls for it in the install instructions. It's called a hydrolicseal. I do them on all mini splits.
like flaretite? man they're super expensive
@@lordjaashin that nylog blue works good or some good old fashion refrigerant oil. I've had no problems with any of those methods.
@@EvesterGaming ya nylog blue is much much better than flaretite price wise and i never had any leaks with nylog blue on flares
I love your videos educating me every day with new things 1st time I see someone actually testing nylog there always a argument and I always say if you make the right flair u need to put nylog its not going to leak I will put oil just that the knots should go on easier really appreciate your effort you work I wish I can give more 👍 up
Without torque-wrench over-torque is pretty common. We repaired many, guys over tighten and over time the nut cracks especially on heating mode
Awesome video and perfect timing. Just bought a mini split and will be practicing my flares just like you did to make sure I have it down before the install. I’ll be doing the nylog and torque to spec. I think I’ll end up brazing the indoor connections because I can. Wish you could order these things with braze connnections.
I enjoy all your videos, keep up the good work.
Do it right with the right tools and you don't need to braze. Esp if you're not doing it with nitrogen.
I would wash with nitrogen.
Very informative video.
I’m thinking correct torque and good flares are where it really matters.
Of course dry flares work. Nylon didn’t exist until relatively recently.
Would be nice if you would of tried putting some nylog on that leaking flare to see if it would stop leaking
THIS!
Technically you could, but flares are a one time use thing. If you have to remove it you have to make a new flare as it won't hold putting it back in.
@@sprockkets I'm interested in the effects of the Nylog as it pertains to the marring that was on the adapter side (ie the valve side on a system), not the copper side.
thanks, Craig for sharing the awesome video!!!!.
Glad you enjoyed it!
never seen anyone use a torque wrench in the field lol
I imagine it's mainly to level the playing field between the two.
I mean if u done it like 1000 times already u can probably torque it in your sleep lol.
I did but stopped because it still leaked even when I used it
It would of been great to have retested the dry flare that leaked wet to see if the leaked still existed!
Nylog will gum up the works. There are multiple strainers in some mini split systems. Use sparingly.
Been interesting to Nylog the leaky flare to see any change in performance.
You should never have a dry connection before nylog came we would use a dab of refrigerant oil on the connectors
Thank you for your videos but I have opinion can explain about tools 🧰 and system devices you used to fixing problems
A helium leak detector has sensitivity capability of about 1cc/30yr., FWIW
Just curious, did you inspect the wet flares after the test to see if any of those flares had nicks or scratches in them that the nylon may have sealed?
Are usually take apart all the flowers that leak to look at them and if I’m in a hurry I cut them out and throw them in my tool bag to take apart later.
Most of the time they were bad flare you can tell when somebody did not ring the edge because it leaves a little remark when you compress it.
Occasionally somebody has an absolutely perfect flair. End it still leaks
Occasionally they’ll have a perfect flare but they over tightened it I kneeled and compress the copper and cause a fracture
But what people don’t understand it’s not the perfect flare that always counts.
It’s the tens of thousands of times the copper actually cycles between hot and cold air temperatures and higher and lower pressures literally causes a mechanical movement of friction on the fitting that literally O’Neils and where is the copper causing the fitting to loosen up or fracture.
So it gets down to the physics of the actual molecular level of the copper at south failing due to temperature or pressure cycling not the flare surface itself
Everybody gets too focused and caught up on the surface face of the flare and that’s not the whole equation
It's NYLOG, not nylon and the formulation is a company secret; it never dries. It does not harm the system, but reputable manufacturers like Daikin or LG recommend as a lubricant to use their refrigeration oil. Also, not every manufacturer will give you the torque for wet and dry. You will have LG recommending wet with their own oil, Daikin will ask for dry. The "over the counter" units/brands don't even go as deep into the matter regarding dry or wet torque. Rule of thumb, go with the specs of the fittings and lines and you can't fail. Use a clutch-like flearing tool. Stay safe!
@@A.Dude. yep been using it for a few years. But I cut off flares and silver braze them. Only a few times I ever leave them.
I sell LG MUTI V VRF Heat recovery system and install.
@@coldfinger459sub0 staybrite 8 has been recommended as best solder for tie in on system .👍✌️💪🤙🤔
@@milotorres6894 yes, I think we all have experience with having to undo and redo somebody Stay Brite solder on the R410 system
The only way I would possibly you Stay Brite. Is if I were to use flares and attach them and then after attaching them up line stay Brite on top of the flare to seal it up 👍 that may get my approval as being reliable
My experience once it's a good flare it holds perfectly fine, never had to use nylog or any other form of lubricant ; taking human error out the equation leaks are mostly due to poor copper quality
I feel the same way, but not being a tradesman and just a DIY'er, the nylog is insurance to me. Installed my first mini split few weeks ago, intend to install 5 more for zone heating and cooling. 3 of those are rooms that are only used in rare occasions,m one being a garage.
What matters more is the flare face on the copper. Can't have any scratches or lips or imperfections.
Great video, but curious why you're recommending NOT using nylog on the threads.
Unless the manufacturer clearly specifies that the torque values are for dry threads, it's good mechanical practice to never install threads dry... Is there something I'm missing where those torque values were given for dry threads?
Dry threads are way more prone to binding and defects causing improper torque... Plus the inability of the flare nut to spin on the back of the copper tube - nylog on the backside of flare, front side, and threads, has been a flawless method for me.
Because my log as a lubricant and it changes the friction rate on the metal threads so when you’re using a torque wrench you’re actually overtorquing when you add lubricants on threads compared to dry
It’s a physics thing engineers know about this is why automotive technicians when assembling engines there are specific bolts that I absolutely have warnings about not lubricating and dry only when assembling using torque wrench or what’s called torque to yield method.
And if you add a lubricant you can severely over torque the thread material beyond the yield strength of the metal and it will fatigue and fail later on.
In some severe cases depending on the materials used example iron bolts in aluminum blocks you can literally ripped the threads right out of the block if you use lubricant
@@coldfinger459sub0 I understand that - and acknowledged it, it's clear and common knowledge that lubricating threads increases torque...
I'm asking a specific question on a technical level about whether or not the manufacturers provided torque ratings for DRY fasteners or not.
Dry fasteners also result in decreased torque...
This isn't a dissimilar metals, nor a torque to yield application...
I already know what you're explaining. I'm asking if there is a specific requirement from the manufacturer not to, or if this is just individual preference...
The majority of HVAC techs that use nylog use it on the threads as well. Especially with flare fittings these are coarse threads and machining quality is often low.
@@epiphany6 Easy answer is YES DRY...
Technicians putting it on the threads are just guessing and making up their own method.
It’s only to go on the surface of the face of the flare only
And if you want to do that one little extra , less then drop on the back of the flare.
But not on the threads
I had a big job last year that had 226 mini splits/cassette units multiple big VRF systems. The guys used torque wrenches and did everything to manufacture specifications. About 50-60 different mini splits leaked after running thats with nylog the flares were not tight enough.
@@HVACR-Airman and that’s exactly why we cut out all the flares and braised them with silver brace never have a leak again no problems.
If you 100% remove all the flares you 100% remove all the leaks created by flares
Great video . I've used Indian head gasket shellac before on numerous flares etc .that was not meant to be disassembled . Never had one seep through it .
I had a unit last year I just couldnt get sealed... the Nylog helped but didnt resolve it.. we surmised there was a deformation in the shape of the flare fitting on the outdoor unit itself.. it was the 3/8 suction line that leaked.. i could see it at 150 PSI... we ended up using those little copper flare sealing discs.. they look like black plastic but are actually copper.. used those with a little refrigeration oil and its held since.. the unit was used extensively in heat mode this last winter was Long and Lingered on and on.. I havent checked it, however theres been no complaints on peformace...
I rub fridge oil on the flare and the threads, use a battery free manual flare block and a couple of adjustable spanners. I tried nylog once, the poxy bottle leaked everywhere, so went back to tried and tested.
Excellent Video ! What's the Make and Model of the flare tool that you are using ?
I will like to get that leak bubbles and the nylon that will be very helpful for my small job
Pro Tech thread sealant seems to work great... wish my local supply house sold nylog
Johnstone does
600psi for Fujitsu and 500 for Mitsubishi is what I have been doing. Also the digital manifold is great since you see the 10th decimal drop when it’s leaking. Also the cone on the flare tool needs to be perfect or you scratch the flare end. What a pain in the ass.....
Flares are a crap shoot , swaglock comprssion fittings for life . Up to 10,000 psi on these things .
where can i buy those double ended flare couplings, no supply house sells them in my area
Im digging that intro!!!!!!!!
could you do the same test but with double flare? is double flare better ? How about toque specification with double flare? it apply the same?
I too would like to know the answer to this question.
I DIY'd my mini split and I double flared, no Nylog, no torque wrench. Pressure test passed and deep vacuum held. Thanks
You are never supposed to use anything on flare fittings, they are to be completely dry. If lubricant is used, the pressure between the flares will push the lubricant out over a period of time, depending on the viscosity, and the nut will have to be re tightened or re torqued.
Very interesting and informati,ve. Separately, I would like to understand the machanical strength of the joint. If the joint was jostled, bumped, moved or bent, how does that affect the flare connection? (dry or wet). Also, i would like to understand how rotating the fitting in a way that would scratch or mar the surface of the compression joint. How much would you rotate the joint, before it starts to leak? Thanks.
good job i enjoyed this video!!!!
Glad you enjoyed!
I would like a list of the tools and lubricant used. I have been to several of my local supply companies and have yet to come across one that carries a tork wrench like that.
I have worked on heat pumps that see 550psi on the heating cycle. So it’s important it is correct.
Nice job! Thank you!
Glad you liked it!
The Mitsubishi city multi leak check is pretty thorough
600# for 24 hours then a triple evac they want 250 microns for 6 hours if I recall correctly
@UHURU!
That’s actually what we had to do , after that they sent a factory rep put the service too on the system and recorded several hours of run time . Now the system has a ten year warranty
It’s a ten ton city multi system
@UHURU! Not practical. It's the correct way of doing the install . Maybe that's why they don't ask you to come back because your doing it wrong.
Good video like to see controlled test
Great Vid...Craig ☺️👌
I generally put refrigerant oil on a lint free clean cloth and wipe all the faces.
And I've never used a torque wrench knock wood haven't had a problem so far.
🍺🍺🥃🥃🍺🍇🏌
Stay safe.
Retired(werk'n) keyboard super tech.
Wear your safety glasses.
trick is use the flare tool and make your flare 99% the other 1% will flare when thightening down never had a leak that way. an old man thought me that trick
Nice tools
Great video as usual. so, what's your opinion/experience with Rectorseals' Pro-Fit quick connects BTW, love your manual/books. They are great for insomnia reading, I just need to re-read the chapters during the day because I remember only half(at best) from the night before. They are worth their weight! :~)
Why do only mini splits have flare fittings at the compressor and full size split systems have sweat fittings?
Helpful video. Thanks
awesome video!
How about trying double flares single squeeze themselves out they use double flares in brake lines they don't leak do it right the first time
Flare fittings suck on 410a systems. I started using the flare seals as they work very well. The combination of high pressures and temperature changes make flare connections a very poor choice for high pressure refrigerant. If they were double flare fittings, we wouldn't have any leaks.
what kind of flare seals? the purple teflon ones? th-cam.com/video/tz9jDJ-b6tg/w-d-xo.html
@@rivergate950 Yes, but update, I no longer use them. I had a couple issues where they were torqued and then must have compressed over time and then started leaking. I've had really good luck using the spin flare tool, no leaks yet. Little nylog and a torque wrench and should be good to go.
@@MrDeviousdom thanks, so you are using the spin flare bits that go into a drill to make your flares now? I think I will stick with my eccentrick block flare set.
@@rivergate950 yeah, from my experience, and I make a lot of flares, it works better than the eccentric flaring tool. One of the main reasons is that you do not have to deburr the inside of the tubing before flaring with the spin tool. Do whatever works for you
thank you teacher
Any time
@@acservicetechchannel
Thanks 👍👍👍
Does Nylog have a shelf life? I install about 1 mini split per year, my Nylog is about 2 years old, it didn't seem to flow properly when I needed it.
Thank you.
Why is it so hard for people to make flares not leak lol, this guy does it on a work be ch and still gets leaks unbelieveable
Says the plumber….
What can cause low side suction side copper pipe not to feel cold when I touch it when the ac is running? The house seems to be getting cold okay.
In my country is only available red nylog, is it safe to use it on HFC mini-splits since it’s only for CFC and HCFC?? 🤔
I have 3 sets of Fieldpiece digital manifolds, they all tick down on both high and low sides. I don't trust them for leak detecting.
I found a tiny leak on my sman380v where the low side screws into the black manifold. I have not removed it and resealed it yet. I found it by drawing a vaccum on just the gauges down to 120 micron and put nylog around all the manifold fittings and instantly stopped losing vacuum. Held the vacuum for 30 mins hoping the nylog would be sucked into the leak. So far still good.
awesome thanks
We want explain on device and tools like this and name this it
I want this box how much?
Does anyone know any good channel, video on tooic how to service AHU? Swegon or any other simillar.
can i use a 12 cfm vacuum pump on a 23 steer mini split ductless system?
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Bullshit I have done more then 10,000 fitting done only 50 had leaked and that was my fault not tightening it enough
They just selling something which is not needed.
Mythbuster))
Why in 2021 do we flare this junk? You can't tell me there isn't a better way to do these
👍🇹🇷🤳🛠️
Do you actually have a point? Do a micron test instead of wasting so much time to prove nothing! Oh, sorry, you are in search of jobs... My bad...
I know a lot of people hate using Teflon tape on the threads of those flared connections. However, what I do is i put just a very small amount on the threads without going over the lip connection, just the thread portion. I use nylog in the lip and on the back of the other nut that spins and call it a day. Now, there is an argument that metal to metal connection on those threads is the way to do it but damn, there are so many ideas out there from techs and from manufacturers that you don't know what you "should" do.
I think Mitsubishi says that nylog is not recommended for their unit.. Go figure. 🤷♂️
Even if they don’t leak now you have two devices that are relying on mechanical friction and compression.
Now add 100,00 or 1 million cycles or less of pressure raising and falling expanding and contracting the line set in a linear fashion on top of that I had 1 million cycles of heating and cooling as the system cycles on and off or up and down in temperature. Expansion and contraction of the two fitting face surfaces themselves including the threads.
Mechanical items on friction at some point always fail in every industry in every application. They are actually moving to surfaces back in for scuffing and gallon each other at the molecular level.
Cut out all flares and silver braised them done deal
No need for that. We double flare our joints just like we do stainless brake lines that run at 1400 psi. Double flares are simple and they work.
@@anthonyspadafora1384 but we’re not dealing with stainless steel here we’re still dealing with copper doesn’t make a difference metal fatigue
@@coldfinger459sub0 These preinsulated line sets are very thin. Nowhere close to L copper. By the time you flare it it is work hardened and very thin. When you bubble the flare and then double it it has a second ring of copper that acts as a soft gasket. This folded over inner portion of the flare is not work hardened and acts as a soft gasket. I use an expensive Mastercool hydraulic flare tool but it only goes to 1/2. Rigid makes one that goes to 1/2 for around a hundred bucks. Try it, do a video, you will see it short order it is a far superior flare. By the way we do cupronicket brake lines also. Very similar to copper. We use to hammer flare 2" K copper for water services. When we were finished we would have to anneal the flare because it was work hardened. I anneal my copper oil pan drain gasket also in the same fashion but these line set flares are so thin you cant anneal them without melting them. Try it and tell me what you think.
@@coldfinger459sub0 www.fridgeandac.com/2019/08/double-thickness-flare/
@@anthonyspadafora1384 I completely agree with you the double flares that we do on stainless steel brake lines Ford high-pressure diesel lines are far superior than anything else double flair has been the high standard even back in my dad‘s day when he was young and when he showed me for making double flares for brake line.
And using copper for even engine head gaskets work for decades.
But when it comes to threaded flare fittings it’s the actual heating and cooling and mechanical friction of the threads themselves expanding and contracting over tens of thousands of cycles the copper just cannot handle it has nothing to do with how great the flare faces and how well it seals.
It’s just a physics behind the problem with copper. This way many decades ago they stopped using copper on cars for any kind of lines fuel lines brake lines vacuum lines anything.
Because of the vibration of a vehicle and the constant heating and cooling of components they would always fail.
And we’re copper is superior for some sort of stationary pressurized fluid or need some mechanical strength with the most extreme durability they will use absolutely no flare fittings and everything will be silver brace..
Even in aerospace they have different levels of reliability and they only only trust copper and flares with mechanical bonded friction threaded fittings up to a certain degree and then they switch over to silver brazing when they step up to the next level of permanent reliability.
It just comes down to the fact that mechanical fiction fittings relying on the spring tension of two metal parts threaded together eventually fail.
Yes the thicker copper is nicer it’s heavier duty and it’s more reliable but it’s still copper and that lies the problem when using it under friction fittings with high pressure vibrations and pull stations and cycling between extreme cold and heat the mechanical aspect of the friction fittings always fail.
I won 110% agree with you I was introduced to the master cool flaring tool when I was a child see my father I know exactly what you’re talking about they are far superior but when used with high-pressure refrigerant with the pool stations vibrations in hot and cold expansion and contraction it still comes down to it it’s copper that’s the one failure point and it’s the friction of the threads that give.
if you used thick copper double flared properly torqued and then went over it with silver brazing then I would say it’s a successful flair