You are absolutely right. Its why us real world racing drivers particularly of the older/no data lower grip generation i.e 80's/90/mid 00's or drivers who have never worked with professional motorsport people struggle converting to ultimate pace in iRacing and why so many make excuses about simulators. BUT, without question this flaw in the tyre model helps develop the correct mental apparoach for serious real world motorsport because whilst it is fustrating and it isnt like a real race car behaves (unless its a TCR car on Dirrezas, which feel exactly like the iRacing tyre model) it DOES make the driver have to focus on their personal inputs to the controls and the cars response on a whole new, much more personaly focused level. Its why I recommend iRacing above all other sim titles to my customers and friends entering simulators for driver training.
No he's not right at all. There's no sense at all that you have to memorise brake, throttle or steering inputs. Nor does it make any sense to equate reacting to the way the car behaves with overdriving. It was just complete and total nonsense. Not the least anyone deluded these flaws, if they exist, will help you drive better in anything other than the flawed product. He'd probably find it easier convincing people that playing iracing is eventually going to give him long blonde curly hair than what he actually said.
@@michael1 I'm sorry we will have to agree to disagree. Motorsport is what I do, RW driver coaching is what I do, I've worked with and coached the best and the worst imagineable cars and people on track including an F1 world champion and thousands of racers over 35 years in motor racing, plus I've won a few championships missing out on another title only last year due to a mechanical failure despite the odds being against us even being in the top 3 at all. The point is modern race cars, i.e high down force, high tech support (GT3 cars in particular) need to be driven ALMOST like robots, the engineer wants that for the data that ultimately rules the pace of the car, he/she does not want a driver who cannot replicate or rather, memorise brake, throttle and steering input levels and replicate that to the tiniest of degrees every lap. The best drivers these days have that level of robotic FEEL and that is partly natural and largely rehursed within an environment. Motor racing is soooo expensive these days and modern cars are so easy to drive around 90 to 95% of what is by that point already bokers fast speeds, that serious upcomming drivers spend huge amounts of time on simulators and that is typicaly in iRacing. Whether they know it or not and most don't, because we dont really care, the NEED to replicate minute detail and not overdrive is a requirement of satisfiying the ego every time we enter a session. The fact the tyre model in iRacing is not perfect and bites overdriving is I agree annoying but it is also precisely why its a good training tool because it requires the driver to be more precise with subtle details that work with the known (thanks to the data) ultimate pace of the car. Do we like it.?.. no not really... is really bad? no not really... can we make it work...yes. Result improved driving ability for people who have in them to be that good. I know the tyre model is being changed and myslef and all my real world racing mates can't wait but the point being made in the video is actually like it or not very valid and something we've been talking about for years.
@@sim-dynamics24 thank you! I feel like most of what you just said was pulled straight from my brain lol. Couldn't agree more about the new tire ether although from the looks of things its been hit and miss so far with the aussie v8 and lotus 79 Turing out great but the gtp's not so much. I'm more on the oval side, and iracing's over emphasis on under driving to save the tires drives me nuts.
@@michael1 You are mixing up what is 1) a good training tool for specific things due to it isolating a specific skill set , precisely because it's unrealistic - think of like a reaction wall , tennis ball machine set up with specific shot , or some other abstraction of a specific part of an activity. 2) Vs a literal training tool that is realistic and contains all the same actions of a real world thing but maybe just slightly different , doing a full slalum course , doing lots of games of tennis , playing a flight sim that has all the dynamics or a racing sim like AC. Both can be great for training or getting better at an activity The first example accidently or intentionally forces a person doing it to work on a specific skill The second one would require a coach or the person doing the training to have awareness and then the person doing it to specifically isolate aspects within it , it's not forced by default. Both can work well the latter I think is generally more fun people typically want to be doing the activity they set out to do directly. But isolating specific skills and then practicing them from my understanding is a well established method of training with lots of evidence behind it , would need to find sources. Also teaching the components of an activity and being aware of those components has value. Both can work I'm sure but it's just interesting how this sort of thing happens when playing different simulators intentionally or accidentally.
I have just discovered you for my first time , you explain the tyre model extremely well with logical reasoning and although I haven't driven in IRacing because I can not afford the subscription fees, I believe your comments on IRacing. I am disabled and race on ACC and AC from my bed with all the equipment including the single screen and everything else mounted on a wooden console table that's on wheels and rolls over the bed to give a driving position. I'm nearly 70 , disabled and started Sim racing for the first time at 68 years old. I am not that quick with a PB of 2.02 at Silverstone in a Ferrari 296 on ACC. But I find the feel of the Force Feedback through the steering wheel much more immersive on AC compared to ACC. I would be interested in your thoughts on this and any useful tips that could help me improve my times on track . Thanks and best wishes Brian aka g0rlbm.
The best way to get quicker is to drive ranked online races where you are forced to get up to the pace of other drivers (rather than just changing the AI difficulty). Low fuel motorsport (LFM) do free ranked racing for AC and ACC. Once you start racing online you will quickly understand how far off the top drivers you are then you can start to use analytical tools like garage61 to compare your laps to those fast drivers: it will show you where they carry more speed and also show you exactly where and how they break, accelerate, etc. so you can understand not only where you are losing that time but how you can adjust your driving inputs to cut the gap.
I agree it hard to cool tires after OD but you have to drive so reckless to OH tires that’s it’s a moot point. So other than that it’s still best physics in all of sim racing.
I am a iR fanboy but as you have mentioned in both of your latest vids YOU are so right & I agree with you 100% - I drive for the competition (I am not that good around 2k)) but I really enjoy it & accept it for what it is - I started to delve int LMU which again I can see being another great sim with its own particular style required to drive / race in it - being 62 years young I have noticed particularly in iR everyone gets hung up on their irating instead of actually realizing what they are doing & why, not to mention where & more importantly to have fun & enjoy it even when you are taking out, as it will & does happen ..... Have a great day GM & a very Happy New Year to you - No you WILL not get me to unsubscribe I love your content such a fresh view / onions great value keep at it
It sounds weird but i went from the first Colin mcrae rally to real life rally driving. What cmr taught me and gave me a bit of an advantage was the ability to listen to pacenotes.
The tyre model and physics of whatever sim you use can easily be learnt and mastered, but that's only half of the tool of the sim. The other variable and just as useful tool for real world racing is the opponents. iRacing's player base and accountability with the protest system arguably provides this the best. Generally the larger the player base, the more people there are at the upper end of the bell curve to sharpen your racing against. Question is, is it better to be in top split there or be the big fish in a small pond (raceroom, rf2 etc) where the strength of field is likely lower.
i would like to add to my previous comment that i had a crazy situation. irl i also drive a porsche cayman, i found myself in a very dangerous situation where, after overtaking some cars during which i increased my speed a lot, i found in front of me a very tight curve, the speed was high and the asphalt was very wet because it was raining. not an ideal situation with a rear wheel drive and mid engine car. at that moment, in a split second, in my head i saw myself in the simulator driving on iracing, it was all automatic, i treated the car as if i were in the game and incredibly i managed to make the curve perfectly without losing control. i have to admit that the muscle mechanics worked wonders. sorry for my english, i'm italian.
I´ve been in Iracing for 12 years, and still didn´t get the same joy of driving the KS2 in NetKar Pro, or feeling the weight of the car like when i first drove the Lotus Elise in the early access of Assetto Corsa, or being able to play with the tyre grip as with the McLaren 650S in RFactor2 during the McLaren´s World’s Fastest Gamer competition.
@@joshuadelorimier1619 All sims can be a training tool , but its interesting how specifically iracing selectively trains a specific thing due to it's nature at the limit.
I wonder if Max Verstappen’s ability to deal with a very unstable rear end came, at least partially, from being a top driver on iracing where you have to go right up to the very limit without ever going over it, i.e., red bull’s car has no room for error over the limit like those on iracing.
I joined iRacing for about 3 months, and never renewed my sub. Even as a person who thinks it's way outdated with a ridiculous pricing model, I completely agree with this. It made me noticeably better in a very short amount of time across every other sim.
This is a one of your best videos, thank you! What a fascinating subject. Trust me I don't normally comment on TH-cam videos. This is so true for me, I just want to add that this "unrealistic" way of making sim racing realistic is what fascinated me the most in iRacing, also mainly because it's incredible CONSISTENT! Over the past 30 years I tried many racing simulators/games and I have a few years of experience in amateur Go Karting and a couple of track days, but iRacing was the only sim that triggered the real racing driver mindset that I had felt in go karts because, if you want to be fast AND consistent like in go karting, you can't overdrive it! You need to learn your limit and the limit of the car, so simulators that let you constantly abuse and overdrive without consequences become way more "unrealistic" to me, even if the force feedback is the best or the handling feels more real!
All i know is when i was in a very serious pickle on the highway a few months ago, having a real world drivers license for 3-4 months, iracing muscle memory prevented me from becoming a statistic. Having to dodge a truck and two cars with locked up brakes while going 140+ km/h as i was preparing an overtake in the left lane to get to the emergency lane while avoiding the said truck and cars, stomping on the brakes, downshifting, correcting snaps and not losing control of the car and ultimately losing my life, i think Iracing physics are pretty alrite. And thinking about all those t1's ive had to go through in Iracing , just prepared me for this clutch moment of my life.
Well, it's up to race driver to figure out and drive fastest possible lap with any given conditions. Does not matter if they are real, simulated perfectly, mostly ok or simplified like in arcade games. Conditions are what they are, and it's the drivers challenge to exploit them to their best. Then at the end we just figure out who did the best. And that's it for racing or any other competitive sport out there really.
the point you are generally making is not wrong and i agree however the more intresting aspect is not in the aspect of adapting to specific conditions or physics but the nature in which one has to adapt and how many options there are. In reality and in a more realistic simulator , there will be more nuance to the "best" way and there might not even be a singular "best" way to do things ( sure what you did might be better than other people on a given day but that could be down to outright chance and often is) the thing with sims and even more so less realistic sims or specific types of sims is that they often have a super limited singular way to be the best which may not be that interesting or overly restrictive. This might still make them a valid training tool or an even better training tool for certain things such is the case with iracing.
Its still rubbish and nothing like a real tire / miles off AC1 or even AMS1 fundamentally the cars just slop around like a brick bobsled requiring ridiculous premeptive driving and little to no reactive driving if you want to be even moderately fast.
The M2 has NOT the new tire model. It is only available in SRF, Lotus 79 and GTP/LMP2 (this both will get readjusted for S2 due to very high grip, a bit too much on LMP2 and waaaay too much on GTP).
@@GamerMuscleVideosReactive driving is less optimal IRL too. Has always been. That’s why Verstappen is potentially a bit quicker than Alonso, for example. Ask peter windsor about this. Plus you can wrestle the lotus 79 as much as you want. Or try the SRF, reworked with several real drivers.
Well that's debatable , but in a sense the variability of real tires roads and a whole host of things means that even the least reactive driving in reality is still way way way more reactive driving than any racing simulator lol. As amazing as sims are they Are just so static predictable and simplistic in comparison to reality both flight and driving. As you would expect given how insane reality is.
Have you seen the episodes with Sebastian Jobe, going from sim to F1, really interesting when he was asked how does it feel compared to the sim. Lol. Worth a watch
Yah lol , I mean the porsche cup car in real life is so obviously absaluty nothing like i-racings 😆 - also any real car is not really directly comparable to any sim really in any direct way like the experance is just different even a go kart or anything really , reality is just a different thing even if some aspects of sims are very good or analgous so its funny when for promotion a real driver or person that drives something is emidiatly asked for how valid a sim is and even more funny when they basically have to skirt around a sim being a bit off but they cant say so directly. Its like when race drivers are asked what they thought of the car they just drove and its obvously massively off pace or team messed up or something but they have to say something neutral lol
@@GamerMuscleVideosiRacing Porsche Cup is atm the best in sim racing by a quite big margin. Ask Laurin Heinrich or Jeff Giassi. It was quite bad before. Got heavily reworked in summer (also tyres). These two drivers were in the feedback loop and tried more than 100 iterations.
@@f1_onboardsAC lol no driver can magically give feedback that fixes a massive underlying physics issue , the Porsche cup is obsurd in iracing. Porsche cup in real life very obviously drives way more online with RF2 , ACC , AC the iracing car drives like every other iracing car with ridiculous tire behavior at the limit. But sure it magnifies driving like a robot the most so for people that like rote memory driving or particularly narrow window of control the Porsche cup in iracing will sute them. A nice thing about PC in iracing is that half the grid crashes in first few laps on there own so it's a great way to gain some iRating if you know how to avoid iRacings tire issues.
Mate I’m new to iracing and enjoying it, but yeah trail braking in iracing is OcD, u can’t push with feel. You drive with feel you start losing time, drive from memory u gain time, bit sad really.
No hate but I’d love to know how many subscribers could get to and maintain say 4-5k IR in here even if the physics were spot on. I get the feeling it’s full of peeps permanently on struggle street, whether it be sims, real life, or heck even Mario Kart. Just a hunch! 😅 Good video though, you explained things well.
0:55 driving the v8 supercars is particularly silly, you can't hold any angle while sliding and you have to have your wheels straight for about 2 weeks in order to be full throttle in second gear edit: before people say "spool diff", go on ac and take the 935 or 962 out for a few laps, with 70's cold tires
@@XavierGoncalves89 play with setup and that will fix that. Go softer on rear springs and you will get a ton of traction. Roll centre also helps and so do bars. It's a car that responds incredibly well to setup. It's basically a fight with rear traction and getting the thing to turn. It also only has small tyres compared to something like a group C car with massive slicks (yes outdated) and weight near the rear wheels. iRacing could always be better but the supercar is probably one of the best Sim cars around in any Sim atm
I'm only halfway through this, but have you ever driven the MX-5 or skip barber cars in iRacing, I know that's a stupid question of course you have, those cars in particular have to be driven with slip angle, and sure maybe IR's version is less forgiving than other sims, that just makes it more rewarding to get it right. I spent the last month getting to grips with the IR Porsche cup car, and it ended up becoming my favorite because it also feels rewarding to get right, and the fact that you can't just stomp on the brake and divebomb people mean you have to actually race with skill. Are there times when I wish the "window" to save the car was bigger, yes of course, but it goes to your point about learning to underdrive is a skill in itself.
@@MTBGarage it's not just about the window of controllable slip , it's more that you literally don't have basic handling techniques available to you , the sim literally forces a specific preemptive largely passive form of driving , in a sense it's more simplistic and restrictive but it forces you to be aware of steering angle and pedal input more than other sims precisely because of this. Apply what you learn in iracing to other sims and real cars and it will only make them even more rewarding as you are not trapped into a singular way of driving to the same degree and can be way more creative and also use more reactive and ballence based skills like a fast driver does in a real car , vs preemptive memory based skills.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I admit, I haven't listened to all of your arguments on this subject, but here's an experiment I am curious if you have tried? Load up AMS2 and try the default, default(+), fukutor, and then last try the rack force only ffb profile. IMO that test has been the only other sim where I understood what iracing is doing (rack force being the closest to iracing). It's more about what they are leaving out then what they put in, for better or worse. And just for clarity, I'm not saying iRacing is the best way, it is what it is, and it can produce the best online racing, if you happen to load up a lobby without clowns, which admittedly can be hard.
Exactly , this is how I drive and I think is the most affective way to get faster quickly and also is a much more fun way to drive especaily given 0 cost or risk with sims even in real life go karts i like to welly it around a bit at first and I think any track car id do the same thing ( on bits of road with space and run off lol) I do this with skiing and bikes and other activities you need to test and find out the limits and ball park for maximums available to then know what you can play with.
Finding your limit as fast as possible so you can start pushing it gently rather than getting recklessly over your limit is what makes the top 0.001% of drivers. Such an important skill, but requires a lot more practice the faster the cars get. This is what makes irl experience so important for those who want to do it professionally because you can't train that skill in a sim with zero consequences. That's how you grow your balls.
Mind blown. Is this really gamermuscle, or his evil twin? 😂 I pretty much only do iRacing now…so I’m a fan. I think this is pretty accurate. The downside is I think there’s a lot more rote memorization through repetition that separates skill levels in iRacing. No doubt the fast guys are just fast, though. Once you master a car in iRacing it’s just as “feel”-based as any other sim, even if it’s not “realistic” FFB.
I love the intro...please subscribe so you can unsubscribe when you get upset! What a great philosophy, to make the content you want and give your opinion openly. I laugh every time i hear this :-)
I have a question. If you're in the mazda and the rear starts to go sideways, it's basically goodnight Vienna every single time, otherwise known as "iracings terrible tyre model" that "they are working on." Here is my question. Since you can already drive like that in iracing (rally cross, super lites etc), why are they having so much trouble getting this fixed? I know they're different cars, with different power to weight ratios and all that jazz. But it still demonstrates that they know how to manipulate their physics engine to allow for a bit of slide and catch, so they must just be not fixing it on purpose right?
much like rain tires, dirt has their own unique tire model too. Also the newer cars like the SFL is most likely on a newer revisions of the tire model, or using new techniques for compounds & general construction basis. Gotta remember that not every car on iRacing is on the same version of tire model - they stopped naming them largely a few years ago (they only just mentioned that they have the v10 tire is in the works currently, where as there hasn't been a real mention since v7 prior). As a example, there's 2 oval cars (Sprint Car & Silver Crown) that are STILL on the v6 tire model - which was updated last nearly 10 years ago & haven't seen a major tire/physics update since (besides the new damage model & general bug fixes). Have to remember that each community/genre subset will see a swing in their direction as time evolves - so it's always a back & forth where fans of a specific car/genre of racing has to be a little patient
Agree with all of that but my point is they do know how to create a tyre model that you can use more realistically and they aren't implementing it, despite widespread acknowledgement that their tyre model is bad. Tbh, I'm hoping to hear from gamer muscle on this subject since he does have a much deeper understanding of this stuff than us lot.
@@redshift1058 this is all subjective. It depends who you ask which sim feels most realistic. I'm going to say this guys opinion probably doesnt hold the weight of all the IRL drivers who say it has the better physics. Having driven AC a LOT, i completely disagree with him saying that game is more realistic. AC is fun, but is very much a forza/gt style physics (arcade)
@@JSRacing61 The new road tires are still terrible on grand scheme of things with same core issues , main thing with dirt is that it probably does not have the surface heating issue and its fundimentally lower grip and slidy in the first place which alows for more time for things to happen , Generally less grippy / less peaky tires seem to be easear to somewhat realistically simulate , road tires , vintage tires , off road is generally done better in more sims than racing slicks even the dirt stuff in gt7 is not that bad.
Asseto corsa's road cars are very good. Their race cars are a bit like dough though. Road cars usually play better with over driving as well. So you might have some bias on realism based on real world experiences. Granted iracings slide a few times and your tyres are forever done on grip/too hot does suck haha
I don't drive road cars in real life , have driven a couple of real cars on slicks badly and have had quite a few passenger laps in GT4, random super cars and Radical SR3. AC does race cars better than any other sim specifically because of how it's tires work , the idea it only does road cars or does them better is a miyth , think about it how would it magically do road cars better than race cars ? Most people that I know in real life that are fast real world drivers (race cars) prefer AC over other sims. AC is still overly forgiving overly sluggish and has curb issues and some other exploits. But for the aspect of driving a race car in perfect conditions with by far the most detail for what the tires are doing no other sim comes close. RF2,AMS1 also up there generally speaking hopefully things keep improving.
The standard complaint about iracing - that the cars give up at the limit - is a massive oversimplification of the way the sim actually works. The tyres do not 'turn off' once you reach the limit - at all. You can drift over the limit and correct the car with minimal stress or laptime loss with the vast majority of the cars currently available. I can hop in a car I've never driven before, throw it about a bit, oversteer all over the place, and have no issues whatsoever. It won't be fast, but I also won't spin off the track. What iracing does discourage, is SPIKING the car over the limit. If you violently disturb the balance of the car with over the top inputs, and not just push the car over the limit, but push it dramatically over the limit, then yeah, you might just enter an unavoidable spin. That does make it a good training tool. It forces you to be smooth, precise, and delicate with your inputs. You do not, in any sense, 'memorize' the correct brake trace and simply repeat it - variable track conditions don't allow this, grip levels vary from session to session. Instead, you need to drive to the limit, but drive to the limit in a controlled manner. You don't get to fling the car miles over the limit, and then correct it. Push it gently over the limit, react, adjust. Driving cars aggressively, even in real life, seems impressive but is generally suboptimal. iRacing, if anything, can teach you to drive with more finesse, and stop you butchering your tyres by 'driving on the limit' via huge spikes over it, followed by over the top corrections. It might be more realistic to also allow you to drive in that way, too - I don't disagree. But as you said, it certainly makes iRacing a great tool to try to 'unlearn' that kind of driving style. It feels fast, but it rarely is.
@@nysashchasam1307 Yah they don't "turn off" but they lose productive behavior and slop and lose the spring back and snap real tires tend to have. It's just semantics I don't think anyone literally means "turn off" well outside some of the older tires or some specific things in iracing where that does happen lol. Light cars with down force negate it and are more natural in iracing ( same with RF1 and other sims DF just stabilizes everything) but everything or just about everything has the same issue. Basically means a person can't drive by naturally rotating the car with all 4 wheels in more aggressive slip and then control that properly. Driving over the limit in iracing is effectively a locked trajectory pre defined power slide and basically all corners and driving in iracing is pre defined prity much entirely by corner entry speed and the sim basically blocking any entry mid and corner wheel adjustments or trajectory adjustments it's worse the closer you get to that very binary limit in iracing that's very defined. In other sims and reality there is more range to the controllable slip and more range when actually on the limit making it not a case of finding the exact train line that iracing tends to be , or at best making that exact train line way way way harder to find or even requiring wheel input and ballence to hold the optimal line as apposed to racing when you specifically want to be holding the wheel at a set angle. A big thing that no sim seems to get right is that real life also has this spontaneous micro on off behavior where for a fraction of a second it's like tires, a tire (parts of a tire ? Lol) are massively over limit (maybe grip drop , bumps something else ) but then immediately it comes back to where the car was before that micro slip. This happens even on bicycles totally probably , different mechanism but when the wheel momentarily loses grip steps out or you get a tiny bit of air but then it settles down right away so you have a flash of very low or no grip but bike instantly becomes stable again when grip returns. Sims just don't have that variability
I understand. Let's all practice driving on ice so we can drive better on a normal road. In the sim-racing world then why not take a good sim, reduce the road grip level and do the same? Not sure why I would have to pay iRacing to do that.
well yes for pure fun might as well just play a realistic sim in the first place , but its still interesting from a training perspective focusing on a specific thing and making people aware of that. and yes you could specifically design a sim to do this intentionally making something unrealistically unforgiving to force a specific driving style or approach. iracing just happens to do it accidently , as well as just the differences with each sim and how if you play different sims and get ok at them it will help you better understand each other sim you play or even approaching different things in real life.
If we use this logic then everyone would be quick with a logitech g29 but it is so far from the truth. One thing I found with iracing csl dd is a nightmare constant clipping and if you tone it down there isn't enough feeling the 60hz feedback is appuling it's a 15 year old game. And also if your going to race real cars you need a understanding of what that feels like and iracing feels very numb as a whole as a training tool rfactor is a way better tool lemons ultimate is brilliant you can feel the brakes locking the abs kicking in you get that sence of kicking as you do in real life. Now I will get alot of hate from the purists who drive a ford st and have a simulator and just play iracing I'm a 3k driver. I used my own simulator csl dd mclaren wheel v3 pedals etc then I tried my friends setup what costs around 12k I instantly found nearly a second I could get to around the 5k mark. I see what your trying to say but motoursports is a reacting sport in real life the grip changes all the time somthing iracing can't provide on iracing your nearly doing the same lap over and over in real life this just isn't true specially in the UK at the more northern tracks I started sim racing before real life racing and I got quicker in iracing once I started karting purely because of muscle memory and I couldn't predict what the car was going to do but I can never find the limit in iracinf with my setup due to clipping and lack of feedback where other sims I can set very fast times be way more consistent but the issue is iracing has the biggest player base making it the easier choice for that reason alone but I don't enjoy driving it as much
@@thenameisblonde2473 Actually the G25/27/29 offers the same sort of value. Not that everyone would be quick obviously, but they are also not with dd's eather. But due to it's lack of detail and lack of speed a g29 specifically forces a driver to learn and Internalise physics and even manually apply corrective forces if they do want to be good with a g29 , that a DD wheel or real car wheel would do automatically. Precisely due to it's unrealistic limited nature if you want to be good with a g27 you have to learn skills and knowledge you might not even think about with a real car. I'd imagine a person that has managed to be good at a sim with a g25 or can be good with a g25/g27 will likely be able to then apply this knowledge to a better wheel base as well. And you will find that fast drivers are fast regardless of equipment. I know with myself I specifically understand steering mechanics and aspects of wheel input ffb and corrective wheel speeds because I went through gamepad , momo black , G25 , T300. Thats not to say you can't also just get good with good equipment or a realistic sim I'm the first place but the point is there is value to isolating and abstracting skills. I don't disagree about the reality of real driving and that iracing ends up being a bit dull and missing the point / joy of driving in many ways 😆
@@GamerMuscleVideos instead of talking put it to the test then get a g29 and i want you to use your knowledge of steering mechanics to the test lets see if you could compete on iracing at the level your at now. anyone can make something sound intelligent lets put your theory to the test?
I literally SimRaced with a g25 for 5 years... Lots of people have done streams and gameplay with g25 , dan Gray last year did a whole thing using g29 . It's not a new idea or concept and is all besides the point of what I explained.
I think this is the wrong advice for beginners. Learning to underdrive is a lot easier than the other way around. My suspicion was confirmed in the 2024 Ferrari esports championship. The best iracing driver was almost 2 seconds slower in AC and ACC. In contrast, the AC and ACC drivers were well in the mix in Iracing. I think that Iracing is good for sharpening your awareness of the limit and finessing your inputs, but only if you are already an experienced driver.
I think I agree as maybe under driving is more common than over driving for most people. I'd imagine for go kart kids over driving is more common but for most people it's under driving. Would depend on the type of driver as to how value limited physics engine or specific physics engine would offer. The video was not really advice for drivers but more just explaining the nature of iracing .
I'm not sure anybody, ever has said that iracing has the best physics. For better physics there is AMS1, AMS2, RF2, RF2, R3E, AC, ACC, Project cars 1, project cars 2, all forza, all gran turismo. But, for well populated and well managed online multiplayer racing where you can get a full grid at any time of the day or night, iracing absolutely shits on all the titles I just mentioned. It's incredibly frustrating 😅
You are absolutely right. Its why us real world racing drivers particularly of the older/no data lower grip generation i.e 80's/90/mid 00's or drivers who have never worked with professional motorsport people struggle converting to ultimate pace in iRacing and why so many make excuses about simulators. BUT, without question this flaw in the tyre model helps develop the correct mental apparoach for serious real world motorsport because whilst it is fustrating and it isnt like a real race car behaves (unless its a TCR car on Dirrezas, which feel exactly like the iRacing tyre model) it DOES make the driver have to focus on their personal inputs to the controls and the cars response on a whole new, much more personaly focused level. Its why I recommend iRacing above all other sim titles to my customers and friends entering simulators for driver training.
No he's not right at all. There's no sense at all that you have to memorise brake, throttle or steering inputs. Nor does it make any sense to equate reacting to the way the car behaves with overdriving. It was just complete and total nonsense. Not the least anyone deluded these flaws, if they exist, will help you drive better in anything other than the flawed product. He'd probably find it easier convincing people that playing iracing is eventually going to give him long blonde curly hair than what he actually said.
@@michael1”memorizing” marks and inputs is what you do in real life… (reference points?)
Real life just has more variables to mess you up.
@@michael1 I'm sorry we will have to agree to disagree. Motorsport is what I do, RW driver coaching is what I do, I've worked with and coached the best and the worst imagineable cars and people on track including an F1 world champion and thousands of racers over 35 years in motor racing, plus I've won a few championships missing out on another title only last year due to a mechanical failure despite the odds being against us even being in the top 3 at all. The point is modern race cars, i.e high down force, high tech support (GT3 cars in particular) need to be driven ALMOST like robots, the engineer wants that for the data that ultimately rules the pace of the car, he/she does not want a driver who cannot replicate or rather, memorise brake, throttle and steering input levels and replicate that to the tiniest of degrees every lap. The best drivers these days have that level of robotic FEEL and that is partly natural and largely rehursed within an environment. Motor racing is soooo expensive these days and modern cars are so easy to drive around 90 to 95% of what is by that point already bokers fast speeds, that serious upcomming drivers spend huge amounts of time on simulators and that is typicaly in iRacing. Whether they know it or not and most don't, because we dont really care, the NEED to replicate minute detail and not overdrive is a requirement of satisfiying the ego every time we enter a session. The fact the tyre model in iRacing is not perfect and bites overdriving is I agree annoying but it is also precisely why its a good training tool because it requires the driver to be more precise with subtle details that work with the known (thanks to the data) ultimate pace of the car. Do we like it.?.. no not really... is really bad? no not really... can we make it work...yes. Result improved driving ability for people who have in them to be that good.
I know the tyre model is being changed and myslef and all my real world racing mates can't wait but the point being made in the video is actually like it or not very valid and something we've been talking about for years.
@@sim-dynamics24 thank you! I feel like most of what you just said was pulled straight from my brain lol. Couldn't agree more about the new tire ether although from the looks of things its been hit and miss so far with the aussie v8 and lotus 79 Turing out great but the gtp's not so much. I'm more on the oval side, and iracing's over emphasis on under driving to save the tires drives me nuts.
@@michael1 You are mixing up what is
1) a good training tool for specific things due to it isolating a specific skill set , precisely because it's unrealistic - think of like a reaction wall , tennis ball machine set up with specific shot , or some other abstraction of a specific part of an activity.
2) Vs a literal training tool that is realistic and contains all the same actions of a real world thing but maybe just slightly different , doing a full slalum course , doing lots of games of tennis , playing a flight sim that has all the dynamics or a racing sim like AC.
Both can be great for training or getting better at an activity
The first example accidently or intentionally forces a person doing it to work on a specific skill
The second one would require a coach or the person doing the training to have awareness and then the person doing it to specifically isolate aspects within it , it's not forced by default.
Both can work well the latter I think is generally more fun people typically want to be doing the activity they set out to do directly.
But isolating specific skills and then practicing them from my understanding is a well established method of training with lots of evidence behind it , would need to find sources.
Also teaching the components of an activity and being aware of those components has value.
Both can work I'm sure but it's just interesting how this sort of thing happens when playing different simulators intentionally or accidentally.
I have just discovered you for my first time , you explain the tyre model extremely well with logical reasoning and although I haven't driven in IRacing because I can not afford the subscription fees, I believe your comments on IRacing. I am disabled and race on ACC and AC from my bed with all the equipment including the single screen and everything else mounted on a wooden console table that's on wheels and rolls over the bed to give a driving position. I'm nearly 70 , disabled and started Sim racing for the first time at 68 years old. I am not that quick with a PB of 2.02 at Silverstone in a Ferrari 296 on ACC. But I find the feel of the Force Feedback through the steering wheel much more immersive on AC compared to ACC. I would be interested in your thoughts on this and any useful tips that could help me improve my times on track . Thanks and best wishes Brian aka g0rlbm.
The best way to get quicker is to drive ranked online races where you are forced to get up to the pace of other drivers (rather than just changing the AI difficulty). Low fuel motorsport (LFM) do free ranked racing for AC and ACC. Once you start racing online you will quickly understand how far off the top drivers you are then you can start to use analytical tools like garage61 to compare your laps to those fast drivers: it will show you where they carry more speed and also show you exactly where and how they break, accelerate, etc. so you can understand not only where you are losing that time but how you can adjust your driving inputs to cut the gap.
Iracing sounds like it is the perfect sim for accountants.
Hey!
Accountants like to overdrive! 😝
I agree it hard to cool tires after OD but you have to drive so reckless to OH tires that’s it’s a moot point. So other than that it’s still best physics in all of sim racing.
I am a iR fanboy but as you have mentioned in both of your latest vids YOU are so right & I agree with you 100% - I drive for the competition (I am not that good around 2k)) but I really enjoy it & accept it for what it is - I started to delve int LMU which again I can see being another great sim with its own particular style required to drive / race in it - being 62 years young I have noticed particularly in iR everyone gets hung up on their irating instead of actually realizing what they are doing & why, not to mention where & more importantly to have fun & enjoy it even when you are taking out, as it will & does happen ..... Have a great day GM & a very Happy New Year to you - No you WILL not get me to unsubscribe I love your content such a fresh view / onions great value keep at it
It sounds weird but i went from the first Colin mcrae rally to real life rally driving. What cmr taught me and gave me a bit of an advantage was the ability to listen to pacenotes.
The tyre model and physics of whatever sim you use can easily be learnt and mastered, but that's only half of the tool of the sim. The other variable and just as useful tool for real world racing is the opponents. iRacing's player base and accountability with the protest system arguably provides this the best. Generally the larger the player base, the more people there are at the upper end of the bell curve to sharpen your racing against. Question is, is it better to be in top split there or be the big fish in a small pond (raceroom, rf2 etc) where the strength of field is likely lower.
i would like to add to my previous comment that i had a crazy situation. irl i also drive a porsche cayman, i found myself in a very dangerous situation where, after overtaking some cars during which i increased my speed a lot, i found in front of me a very tight curve, the speed was high and the asphalt was very wet because it was raining. not an ideal situation with a rear wheel drive and mid engine car. at that moment, in a split second, in my head i saw myself in the simulator driving on iracing, it was all automatic, i treated the car as if i were in the game and incredibly i managed to make the curve perfectly without losing control. i have to admit that the muscle mechanics worked wonders. sorry for my english, i'm italian.
I´ve been in Iracing for 12 years, and still didn´t get the same joy of driving the KS2 in NetKar Pro, or feeling the weight of the car like when i first drove the Lotus Elise in the early access of Assetto Corsa, or being able to play with the tyre grip as with the McLaren 650S in RFactor2 during the McLaren´s World’s Fastest Gamer competition.
about a year ago I totally told you that it was training tool and not a simulator but glad you found the light.
@@joshuadelorimier1619 All sims can be a training tool , but its interesting how specifically iracing selectively trains a specific thing due to it's nature at the limit.
I´ve been saying this for ages word for word. Thank you for this video.
I wonder if Max Verstappen’s ability to deal with a very unstable rear end came, at least partially, from being a top driver on iracing where you have to go right up to the very limit without ever going over it, i.e., red bull’s car has no room for error over the limit like those on iracing.
I think it comes from Dutch waffles to be honest.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I'll have to give them a go and see if my rating starts to improve.
I will say iracing has taught me more about throttle control than any other sim
I joined iRacing for about 3 months, and never renewed my sub. Even as a person who thinks it's way outdated with a ridiculous pricing model, I completely agree with this. It made me noticeably better in a very short amount of time across every other sim.
This is a one of your best videos, thank you! What a fascinating subject. Trust me I don't normally comment on TH-cam videos. This is so true for me, I just want to add that this "unrealistic" way of making sim racing realistic is what fascinated me the most in iRacing, also mainly because it's incredible CONSISTENT! Over the past 30 years I tried many racing simulators/games and I have a few years of experience in amateur Go Karting and a couple of track days, but iRacing was the only sim that triggered the real racing driver mindset that I had felt in go karts because, if you want to be fast AND consistent like in go karting, you can't overdrive it! You need to learn your limit and the limit of the car, so simulators that let you constantly abuse and overdrive without consequences become way more "unrealistic" to me, even if the force feedback is the best or the handling feels more real!
iRacing has certainly done something to you, being a better simracer is not in the top 5....
All i know is when i was in a very serious pickle on the highway a few months ago, having a real world drivers license for 3-4 months, iracing muscle memory prevented me from becoming a statistic. Having to dodge a truck and two cars with locked up brakes while going 140+ km/h as i was preparing an overtake in the left lane to get to the emergency lane while avoiding the said truck and cars, stomping on the brakes, downshifting, correcting snaps and not losing control of the car and ultimately losing my life, i think Iracing physics are pretty alrite. And thinking about all those t1's ive had to go through in Iracing , just prepared me for this clutch moment of my life.
Comment for the algorithm.
a strange thing that happens to me is that after a period of LMU I re-start iracing again and I'm faster than before, incredible
Literally just had this same conversation with my friends the other day. Spot on
Daniel Gray needs to hire GamerMuscle to help him make content more than a few times a year haha. The man is grinding! Love to see it. 💪
Well, it's up to race driver to figure out and drive fastest possible lap with any given conditions. Does not matter if they are real, simulated perfectly, mostly ok or simplified like in arcade games. Conditions are what they are, and it's the drivers challenge to exploit them to their best. Then at the end we just figure out who did the best. And that's it for racing or any other competitive sport out there really.
the point you are generally making is not wrong and i agree however the more intresting aspect is not in the aspect of adapting to specific conditions or physics but the nature in which one has to adapt and how many options there are.
In reality and in a more realistic simulator , there will be more nuance to the "best" way and there might not even be a singular "best" way to do things ( sure what you did might be better than other people on a given day but that could be down to outright chance and often is)
the thing with sims and even more so less realistic sims or specific types of sims is that they often have a super limited singular way to be the best which may not be that interesting or overly restrictive. This might still make them a valid training tool or an even better training tool for certain things such is the case with iracing.
How about the new tyre model on some iracing cars? On the new bmw m2 cs for example
Its still rubbish and nothing like a real tire / miles off AC1 or even AMS1 fundamentally the cars just slop around like a brick bobsled requiring ridiculous premeptive driving and little to no reactive driving if you want to be even moderately fast.
The M2 has NOT the new tire model. It is only available in SRF, Lotus 79 and GTP/LMP2 (this both will get readjusted for S2 due to very high grip, a bit too much on LMP2 and waaaay too much on GTP).
@@GamerMuscleVideosReactive driving is less optimal IRL too. Has always been. That’s why Verstappen is potentially a bit quicker than Alonso, for example. Ask peter windsor about this.
Plus you can wrestle the lotus 79 as much as you want. Or try the SRF, reworked with several real drivers.
Well that's debatable , but in a sense the variability of real tires roads and a whole host of things means that even the least reactive driving in reality is still way way way more reactive driving than any racing simulator lol.
As amazing as sims are they
Are just so static predictable and simplistic in comparison to reality both flight and driving.
As you would expect given how insane reality is.
Have you seen the episodes with Sebastian Jobe, going from sim to F1, really interesting when he was asked how does it feel compared to the sim. Lol. Worth a watch
Yah lol , I mean the porsche cup car in real life is so obviously absaluty nothing like i-racings 😆 - also any real car is not really directly comparable to any sim really in any direct way like the experance is just different even a go kart or anything really , reality is just a different thing even if some aspects of sims are very good or analgous so its funny when for promotion a real driver or person that drives something is emidiatly asked for how valid a sim is and even more funny when they basically have to skirt around a sim being a bit off but they cant say so directly. Its like when race drivers are asked what they thought of the car they just drove and its obvously massively off pace or team messed up or something but they have to say something neutral lol
@@GamerMuscleVideosiRacing Porsche Cup is atm the best in sim racing by a quite big margin. Ask Laurin Heinrich or Jeff Giassi.
It was quite bad before. Got heavily reworked in summer (also tyres). These two drivers were in the feedback loop and tried more than 100 iterations.
@@f1_onboardsAC lol no driver can magically give feedback that fixes a massive underlying physics issue , the Porsche cup is obsurd in iracing.
Porsche cup in real life very obviously drives way more online with RF2 , ACC , AC the iracing car drives like every other iracing car with ridiculous tire behavior at the limit.
But sure it magnifies driving like a robot the most so for people that like rote memory driving or particularly narrow window of control the Porsche cup in iracing will sute them.
A nice thing about PC in iracing is that half the grid crashes in first few laps on there own so it's a great way to gain some iRating if you know how to avoid iRacings tire issues.
Mate I’m new to iracing and enjoying it, but yeah trail braking in iracing is OcD, u can’t push with feel. You drive with feel you start losing time, drive from memory u gain time, bit sad really.
No hate but I’d love to know how many subscribers could get to and maintain say 4-5k IR in here even if the physics were spot on. I get the feeling it’s full of peeps permanently on struggle street, whether it be sims, real life, or heck even Mario Kart. Just a hunch! 😅 Good video though, you explained things well.
0:55 driving the v8 supercars is particularly silly, you can't hold any angle while sliding and you have to have your wheels straight for about 2 weeks in order to be full throttle in second gear
edit: before people say "spool diff", go on ac and take the 935 or 962 out for a few laps, with 70's cold tires
@@XavierGoncalves89 play with setup and that will fix that. Go softer on rear springs and you will get a ton of traction. Roll centre also helps and so do bars. It's a car that responds incredibly well to setup. It's basically a fight with rear traction and getting the thing to turn. It also only has small tyres compared to something like a group C car with massive slicks (yes outdated) and weight near the rear wheels. iRacing could always be better but the supercar is probably one of the best Sim cars around in any Sim atm
I'm only halfway through this, but have you ever driven the MX-5 or skip barber cars in iRacing, I know that's a stupid question of course you have, those cars in particular have to be driven with slip angle, and sure maybe IR's version is less forgiving than other sims, that just makes it more rewarding to get it right. I spent the last month getting to grips with the IR Porsche cup car, and it ended up becoming my favorite because it also feels rewarding to get right, and the fact that you can't just stomp on the brake and divebomb people mean you have to actually race with skill. Are there times when I wish the "window" to save the car was bigger, yes of course, but it goes to your point about learning to underdrive is a skill in itself.
@@MTBGarage it's not just about the window of controllable slip , it's more that you literally don't have basic handling techniques available to you , the sim literally forces a specific preemptive largely passive form of driving , in a sense it's more simplistic and restrictive but it forces you to be aware of steering angle and pedal input more than other sims precisely because of this.
Apply what you learn in iracing to other sims and real cars and it will only make them even more rewarding as you are not trapped into a singular way of driving to the same degree and can be way more creative and also use more reactive and ballence based skills like a fast driver does in a real car , vs preemptive memory based skills.
@@GamerMuscleVideos I admit, I haven't listened to all of your arguments on this subject, but here's an experiment I am curious if you have tried? Load up AMS2 and try the default, default(+), fukutor, and then last try the rack force only ffb profile. IMO that test has been the only other sim where I understood what iracing is doing (rack force being the closest to iracing). It's more about what they are leaving out then what they put in, for better or worse. And just for clarity, I'm not saying iRacing is the best way, it is what it is, and it can produce the best online racing, if you happen to load up a lobby without clowns, which admittedly can be hard.
I feel like you are gaslighting the ispend developers here. Well done! Bravo 🙌
I like to overdrive and dial it back from there which is probably why I absolutely hated iRacing!
Exactly , this is how I drive and I think is the most affective way to get faster quickly and also is a much more fun way to drive especaily given 0 cost or risk with sims even in real life go karts i like to welly it around a bit at first and I think any track car id do the same thing ( on bits of road with space and run off lol) I do this with skiing and bikes and other activities you need to test and find out the limits and ball park for maximums available to then know what you can play with.
Finding your limit as fast as possible so you can start pushing it gently rather than getting recklessly over your limit is what makes the top 0.001% of drivers. Such an important skill, but requires a lot more practice the faster the cars get. This is what makes irl experience so important for those who want to do it professionally because you can't train that skill in a sim with zero consequences.
That's how you grow your balls.
@@RyJones90 You can overdrive any car except GT3s.
You are absolutely right about one thing, I'm a bit upset 😂
Coming next: How losing 500k in a casino then getting divorced made me a better human being.
Well that would be character building !
I mean the real analogy would be achieving that with play money or something to learn the lesson cheaply.
I knew there had to be reason for all this i-racing positivity...coffee 😂
Okay. This comment section is entirely too positive. What happened?
6:40 Thats because ultimately everything really boils down to a skill issue.
This guy say iracing is Unrealistic when F1 drivers and gt3 drivers say is realistic this guy is a joke
So why doesn't it let me win ??
Triggering... my left eyelid has not stopped twitching since I watched this !
Mind blown. Is this really gamermuscle, or his evil twin? 😂
I pretty much only do iRacing now…so I’m a fan. I think this is pretty accurate. The downside is I think there’s a lot more rote memorization through repetition that separates skill levels in iRacing. No doubt the fast guys are just fast, though. Once you master a car in iRacing it’s just as “feel”-based as any other sim, even if it’s not “realistic” FFB.
I love the intro...please subscribe so you can unsubscribe when you get upset! What a great philosophy, to make the content you want and give your opinion openly. I laugh every time i hear this :-)
I have a question.
If you're in the mazda and the rear starts to go sideways, it's basically goodnight Vienna every single time, otherwise known as "iracings terrible tyre model" that "they are working on."
Here is my question.
Since you can already drive like that in iracing (rally cross, super lites etc), why are they having so much trouble getting this fixed?
I know they're different cars, with different power to weight ratios and all that jazz. But it still demonstrates that they know how to manipulate their physics engine to allow for a bit of slide and catch, so they must just be not fixing it on purpose right?
much like rain tires, dirt has their own unique tire model too. Also the newer cars like the SFL is most likely on a newer revisions of the tire model, or using new techniques for compounds & general construction basis.
Gotta remember that not every car on iRacing is on the same version of tire model - they stopped naming them largely a few years ago (they only just mentioned that they have the v10 tire is in the works currently, where as there hasn't been a real mention since v7 prior). As a example, there's 2 oval cars (Sprint Car & Silver Crown) that are STILL on the v6 tire model - which was updated last nearly 10 years ago & haven't seen a major tire/physics update since (besides the new damage model & general bug fixes). Have to remember that each community/genre subset will see a swing in their direction as time evolves - so it's always a back & forth where fans of a specific car/genre of racing has to be a little patient
Agree with all of that but my point is they do know how to create a tyre model that you can use more realistically and they aren't implementing it, despite widespread acknowledgement that their tyre model is bad.
Tbh, I'm hoping to hear from gamer muscle on this subject since he does have a much deeper understanding of this stuff than us lot.
@@redshift1058 this is all subjective. It depends who you ask which sim feels most realistic. I'm going to say this guys opinion probably doesnt hold the weight of all the IRL drivers who say it has the better physics. Having driven AC a LOT, i completely disagree with him saying that game is more realistic. AC is fun, but is very much a forza/gt style physics (arcade)
@@06keaserAbsolutely. He makes a living from this.
@@JSRacing61 The new road tires are still terrible on grand scheme of things with same core issues , main thing with dirt is that it probably does not have the surface heating issue and its fundimentally lower grip and slidy in the first place which alows for more time for things to happen , Generally less grippy / less peaky tires seem to be easear to somewhat realistically simulate , road tires , vintage tires , off road is generally done better in more sims than racing slicks even the dirt stuff in gt7 is not that bad.
I unsubscribed just to subscribe again.
I subscribed just to unsubscribe again.
Asseto corsa's road cars are very good. Their race cars are a bit like dough though. Road cars usually play better with over driving as well. So you might have some bias on realism based on real world experiences. Granted iracings slide a few times and your tyres are forever done on grip/too hot does suck haha
I don't drive road cars in real life , have driven a couple of real cars on slicks badly and have had quite a few passenger laps in GT4, random super cars and Radical SR3.
AC does race cars better than any other sim specifically because of how it's tires work , the idea it only does road cars or does them better is a miyth , think about it how would it magically do road cars better than race cars ?
Most people that I know in real life that are fast real world drivers (race cars) prefer AC over other sims.
AC is still overly forgiving overly sluggish and has curb issues and some other exploits.
But for the aspect of driving a race car in perfect conditions with by far the most detail for what the tires are doing no other sim comes close.
RF2,AMS1 also up there generally speaking hopefully things keep improving.
The standard complaint about iracing - that the cars give up at the limit - is a massive oversimplification of the way the sim actually works.
The tyres do not 'turn off' once you reach the limit - at all. You can drift over the limit and correct the car with minimal stress or laptime loss with the vast majority of the cars currently available. I can hop in a car I've never driven before, throw it about a bit, oversteer all over the place, and have no issues whatsoever. It won't be fast, but I also won't spin off the track.
What iracing does discourage, is SPIKING the car over the limit. If you violently disturb the balance of the car with over the top inputs, and not just push the car over the limit, but push it dramatically over the limit, then yeah, you might just enter an unavoidable spin.
That does make it a good training tool. It forces you to be smooth, precise, and delicate with your inputs. You do not, in any sense, 'memorize' the correct brake trace and simply repeat it - variable track conditions don't allow this, grip levels vary from session to session. Instead, you need to drive to the limit, but drive to the limit in a controlled manner. You don't get to fling the car miles over the limit, and then correct it. Push it gently over the limit, react, adjust.
Driving cars aggressively, even in real life, seems impressive but is generally suboptimal. iRacing, if anything, can teach you to drive with more finesse, and stop you butchering your tyres by 'driving on the limit' via huge spikes over it, followed by over the top corrections.
It might be more realistic to also allow you to drive in that way, too - I don't disagree. But as you said, it certainly makes iRacing a great tool to try to 'unlearn' that kind of driving style. It feels fast, but it rarely is.
@@nysashchasam1307 Yah they don't "turn off" but they lose productive behavior and slop and lose the spring back and snap real tires tend to have.
It's just semantics I don't think anyone literally means "turn off" well outside some of the older tires or some specific things in iracing where that does happen lol.
Light cars with down force negate it and are more natural in iracing ( same with RF1 and other sims DF just stabilizes everything) but everything or just about everything has the same issue.
Basically means a person can't drive by naturally rotating the car with all 4 wheels in more aggressive slip and then control that properly.
Driving over the limit in iracing is effectively a locked trajectory pre defined power slide
and basically all corners and driving in iracing is pre defined prity much entirely by corner entry speed and the sim basically blocking any entry mid and corner wheel adjustments or trajectory adjustments it's worse the closer you get to that very binary limit in iracing that's very defined.
In other sims and reality there is more range to the controllable slip and more range when actually on the limit making it not a case of finding the exact train line that iracing tends to be , or at best making that exact train line way way way harder to find or even requiring wheel input and ballence to hold the optimal line as apposed to racing when you specifically want to be holding the wheel at a set angle.
A big thing that no sim seems to get right is that real life also has this spontaneous micro on off behavior where for a fraction of a second it's like tires, a tire (parts of a tire ? Lol) are massively over limit (maybe grip drop , bumps something else ) but then immediately it comes back to where the car was before that micro slip.
This happens even on bicycles totally probably , different mechanism but when the wheel momentarily loses grip steps out or you get a tiny bit of air but then it settles down right away so you have a flash of very low or no grip but bike instantly becomes stable again when grip returns.
Sims just don't have that variability
Always look on the briiiiight side of life 🎵🎵🎵🎵
I understand. Let's all practice driving on ice so we can drive better on a normal road. In the sim-racing world then why not take a good sim, reduce the road grip level and do the same? Not sure why I would have to pay iRacing to do that.
well yes for pure fun might as well just play a realistic sim in the first place , but its still interesting from a training perspective focusing on a specific thing and making people aware of that. and yes you could specifically design a sim to do this intentionally making something unrealistically unforgiving to force a specific driving style or approach.
iracing just happens to do it accidently , as well as just the differences with each sim and how if you play different sims and get ok at them it will help you better understand each other sim you play or even approaching different things in real life.
This positivity is getting pathological!
IRacing refuses to fix this. It’s only been 16 years
If we use this logic then everyone would be quick with a logitech g29 but it is so far from the truth.
One thing I found with iracing csl dd is a nightmare constant clipping and if you tone it down there isn't enough feeling the 60hz feedback is appuling it's a 15 year old game.
And also if your going to race real cars you need a understanding of what that feels like and iracing feels very numb as a whole as a training tool rfactor is a way better tool lemons ultimate is brilliant you can feel the brakes locking the abs kicking in you get that sence of kicking as you do in real life.
Now I will get alot of hate from the purists who drive a ford st and have a simulator and just play iracing I'm a 3k driver.
I used my own simulator csl dd mclaren wheel v3 pedals etc then I tried my friends setup what costs around 12k I instantly found nearly a second I could get to around the 5k mark.
I see what your trying to say but motoursports is a reacting sport in real life the grip changes all the time somthing iracing can't provide on iracing your nearly doing the same lap over and over in real life this just isn't true specially in the UK at the more northern tracks I started sim racing before real life racing and I got quicker in iracing once I started karting purely because of muscle memory and I couldn't predict what the car was going to do but I can never find the limit in iracinf with my setup due to clipping and lack of feedback where other sims I can set very fast times be way more consistent but the issue is iracing has the biggest player base making it the easier choice for that reason alone but I don't enjoy driving it as much
@@thenameisblonde2473 Actually the G25/27/29 offers the same sort of value.
Not that everyone would be quick obviously, but they are also not with dd's eather.
But due to it's lack of detail and lack of speed a g29 specifically forces a driver to learn and Internalise physics and even manually apply corrective forces if they do want to be good with a g29 , that a DD wheel or real car wheel would do automatically.
Precisely due to it's unrealistic limited nature if you want to be good with a g27 you have to learn skills and knowledge you might not even think about with a real car.
I'd imagine a person that has managed to be good at a sim with a g25 or can be good with a g25/g27 will likely be able to then apply this knowledge to a better wheel base as well.
And you will find that fast drivers are fast regardless of equipment.
I know with myself I specifically understand steering mechanics and aspects of wheel input ffb and corrective wheel speeds because I went through gamepad , momo black , G25 , T300.
Thats not to say you can't also just get good with good equipment or a realistic sim I'm the first place but the point is there is value to isolating and abstracting skills.
I don't disagree about the reality of real driving and that iracing ends up being a bit dull and missing the point / joy of driving in many ways 😆
@@GamerMuscleVideos instead of talking put it to the test then get a g29 and i want you to use your knowledge of steering mechanics to the test lets see if you could compete on iracing at the level your at now.
anyone can make something sound intelligent lets put your theory to the test?
also if all this was true i have friends that are fastrer than me in sim but cant even get close in a kart explain this?
I literally SimRaced with a g25 for 5 years... Lots of people have done streams and gameplay with g25 , dan Gray last year did a whole thing using g29 . It's not a new idea or concept and is all besides the point of what I explained.
I don't think you understand what is being said in the video.
agreed
Youre just trolling at this point
I think this is the wrong advice for beginners. Learning to underdrive is a lot easier than the other way around. My suspicion was confirmed in the 2024 Ferrari esports championship. The best iracing driver was almost 2 seconds slower in AC and ACC. In contrast, the AC and ACC drivers were well in the mix in Iracing.
I think that Iracing is good for sharpening your awareness of the limit and finessing your inputs, but only if you are already an experienced driver.
I think I agree as maybe under driving is more common than over driving for most people.
I'd imagine for go kart kids over driving is more common but for most people it's under driving.
Would depend on the type of driver as to how value limited physics engine or specific physics engine would offer.
The video was not really advice for drivers but more just explaining the nature of iracing .
I cane for the comments but left disappointed
Listening to a decade of 'iracing got the best physics' , and now that i'm tip toeing into it, everyone taking a 💩 on it 🤡.
Best simulator of racing. Is the issue. It's the same almost as racing to rc cars in a international race. It's still racing.
I'm not sure anybody, ever has said that iracing has the best physics. For better physics there is AMS1, AMS2, RF2, RF2, R3E, AC, ACC, Project cars 1, project cars 2, all forza, all gran turismo.
But, for well populated and well managed online multiplayer racing where you can get a full grid at any time of the day or night, iracing absolutely shits on all the titles I just mentioned. It's incredibly frustrating 😅
Sorry RF1
Gran turismo and forza lmao
Fair enough, I was taking the piss with those two, but I stand firmly by the rest of the list 😂
Still pesc butthurt😂
video sounds like iracing copium.