ULTIMATE K-SERIES DROP-IN CAM TEST! - SKUNK2, TDi NORTH, DRAG CARTEL, DC5 JDM + HALTECH VS HONDATA!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.พ. 2021
- Our heavily anticipated K20 drop-in cam test is finally complete!
We teamed up with the legendary Honda tuner Jesse Halford from J Cal ECU Calibration and Paul West from TPW Engineering to conduct our ultimate k-series cam test.
The camshafts featured are as followed (In order of test):
OEM K20A Cam
Genuine Honda K20A DC5 JDM Cams - tinyurl.com/K20DC5Cam
Drag Cartel 8620 Billet Drop-in Cams - tinyurl.com/DragCartel
TDI North Ultimate Drop-in Cams - tinyurl.com/TDiNorth
Skunk2 Tuner Series Drop-in Cams - tinyurl.com/SKUNK2Cam
We also carried out our K20 ECU usability test between the renowned Hondata K-Pro and the Haltech Platinum Pro ECU. These were all put to the test on Mike's freshly built Time Attack K20 Civic EK!
You can find both ECU's used in these tests below:
Hondata K-Pro - tinyurl.com/HondataKPRO
Haltech Platinum Pro - tinyurl.com/HaltechECU
Want more of an in-depth breakdown? Read more from our blog! - www.tegiwaimports.com/blog/?p...
If you enjoyed this video then be sure to subscribe so you don't miss future tests! - th-cam.com/users/tegiwa?s...
Big thanks to everyone involved:
Paul West from TPW Engineering - / kingtuna
Motion Motorsport - / motionmotorsport1
Mikey Birch - / mikeybirch
Jesse Halford from J.Cal ECU Calibrations - / jcal-ecu-calibration-1...
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Facebook: / tegiwa
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Order Online:
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Tegiwa Euro: www.tegiwaeuro.com
#K20 #CamTest #CamshaftTesting - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
K-SERIES CAM TEST V2 VIDEO NOW LIVE!! 🎥 th-cam.com/video/OFhMZ8KmiJM/w-d-xo.html
We’re back with another cam test on Mike’s K20A2 powered Civic EK race car! This time we compare the drop-in cams against the Skunk2 Racing Ultra 1 cam!
In Honda World, 6500rpm is midrange 😂
Well if he reved them put to 9.5 it would be way more apparent
I think he should of reved all the cams to 9.5 just to show which ones can, 8.6 is a bit weak for some of those cams, you can clearly see they want to be reved higher
@@John.strong I agree, him saying that drop in cams aren't made to rev past 8.6k is completely wrong You upgrade your cams so you can rev higher than that.
Lol..but thats the truth..
@@John.strong but then you’d have to install upgraded valve springs too which kind of defeats the point of “drop in” cams no?
3-6 would be the midrange and unless u have a ported oil pump u shouldn’t rev past 9. Realistically revving past 8600 is unnecessary unless you have decent cams not stock cams with a little more lift lol aka drop in cams
Reall appreciate the time and effort put into this,these comparison videos are really helpful,subscribed
I would like to see a K24A3 with K20A2 Head test and a normal Intake Manifold like RBC/RRC.
Nice Test though and clearly the midrange winner would be the DC5 ones.
Amazing guys! Exactly the comparison and reading material I was looking for! Huge fan from singapore! 🇸🇬
This video deserves so much views.. very helpful
Thanks Jay!
Be sure to checkout our build series on this car! Part 1 is up - th-cam.com/video/up5D0flEGBk/w-d-xo.html
Oh man PLEASEEEE do more ultimate comparisons!!!
You guys are awesome for doing this ..thank you verymuch 👏
This is amazing info, reminds me of the cam test superstreet did. To this day their intake manifold data stands as a key piece of k series tuning information. The skunk 2 took me by surprise though! i had the drag cartels down for top spot
Awesome! Also Should do a Comparison test with Exhaust Manifolds.. there are just too many
100% this! So many Manifolds around that all claim to be "the best!"
brilliant compare on these ...well done
cheers guy amazing content! 👍🏻
Absolutely fantastic video !!!!!! Love it , are these readings wheel hp or flywheel hp rating?
Thank you for doing this video
To clear any confusion about the final chart it goes as followed:
Stock K20A2 Cam
DC5 FD2 JDM CAM
TDi North Cam
Drag Cartel Cam
Skunk2 Cam
Try matching the TSX exhaust cam with the stock k20 intake cams.
can you do a video on how to shoot flames with haltech please
How would boost change the results?
@@alitoroganan2442 its easy..
You go in the fuel map..play the datalog.look at the cells at your launch control rpm
Just make one cell pig rich...pop pop...can also play with timing but just start with that.
@@upnorthviking823 is it safe mate
Thank-You so much mates for the info.
K-Series Gang.
I’m from the US and am just learning about Tegiwa. This is a great video and I also am becoming a fan of the parts they make. The EP3 exhaust looks great.
You are a god for making this
Very good video, cheers from Brazil! I have a k20 w/ skunk2 cam and was think to change to cartel but gonna still with them
Good interesting video that, something I particularly enjoyed.
Also shout out Jesse, top guy
Yeeee real honda content
Great video
Thank you for your time
Alignment on point
MAN LIKE JESSE! Loving the K Series comparison tests, smashing it 🔥
So cool seeing all this from tegiwa. When i had my ep3 id drool over their air intake lol. I was a broke high school kid though so just had a gutted airbox (although that typically outperforms every intake besides teg's).
Now im looking into a k swapped mr2 and seeing where the scene is with all this stuff. Refreshing to see direct comparisons instead of guesswork!
Great bit about the Haltech at the end. You will sell loads with detailed info like that!
haltech doesn't support the factory o2 sensor, best bang for buck is still a honda ecu for me
Iirc Haltech supports narrow band O2 sensors, it does not support wideband O2 sensors on JDM cars. But as I have learnt from the "guru" -"it shoots flames!" Think you will find best bang for buck is Hondavert. 😉
@@daveeaster7770 yep hondavert but no expansions or anything but yea
K series gold in this video.... Take notes!
Excellent video, im not a fan of the intake so close to the header tho.
Wow great video. I understand this was a drop in test, but was wondering what kind of HP and torque differences there might be if piston to valve and valve to valve were measured, cams were degreed in, and cam position was optimized on the dyno?
Great efforts and happy to see this test as I was thinking about drop in cams as my next upgrade, I know it is hard to make overlay for all the cams on one sheet, I did and compared all the results doing overlays myself to see a better comparison, to my surprise, DC5 was the best out of all of them from VTEC to where it peaks, skunk2 being the only one that had better power after 7800rpm, TDI was the closer one after 6500rpm but dc5 cams held the edge until they peaked. My only question, does the dc5 cams lose power after 8400rpm? as it is the only one that has been tested to 8400 where all the others were tested to 8600, and thanks for sharing this, no need to change my cams as I am mostly between 5k-8k 🤣
For USDM guys note that 05-06 K20Z1 cams are K20a DC5 spec.
Would it be worth while reviving the old forum arguments and do a header shootout on a b18c? Also id love to see a cam comparison on a b18c too
So, what cams do you guys recommend on a FBO car?
Greetz!
9.7hrs flagerate on that job sir book also states to let engine sit for an additional 4 hrs after its completly reassembled for all the components to have an overall equal ambient temp as well
the cam swap itself can be preformed in under 2 hrs yes easy, but you still need to.. degree engine, adjust valves, and let it sit for hrs before you start it
would like to see K24 test
I would like to see the 06-08 tsx camshafts compare to these camshafts.
I feel the same. I read years back there's a hybrid cam swap using like a z3/dc5r intake cam and the 06-08 RBB exhaust cam. Or vice versa. Apparently it's pretty impressive?
With the haltech plug and play does it require the CAN I/O 12 Expander Box? I'm running 93Octane.
Thanks for the video, good information. Which cams were in the stock engine? At the beginning you say it was K20a2 then in the chart put K20A which is the DC5 cams?
Hi, the first test was the stock cams K20A2, and the second test was the DC5 JDM cams.
Apologies for any confusion!
@@tegiwa Great thanks for the quick reply
In my k20a2 i ended up going for tegiwa headers, m2 intake, 70mm tb, dc5 cams. Since i track alot of hours straight, basicaly sunday morning since 8h30 till 12h30, only stoping to piss, refuel, check tire pressure, i needed the best cam between 4500 to 8000 rpms. I have the rev limit to 8600, but change gears at 8000 to save the engine
Skunk has the best bang for your buck
#Tegiwa. Can the drag cartels 3.2 work with the stock bottom end k20a with full supporting mods? It is Known that the bottom end can handle up to 500hp. The 2 liter bottom end is sqaure whereas the k24 is undersquared.
wonder the effects with boost :)
I'm guessing the gains would be alot more substantial in a K24a2 over a K20a2? As I have a (JDM) CL9 Accord Euro Type S with FBO which I'm about to build with bigger cams and 50°vtc gear and a few other goodies 🤗
Will you guys ever do a stage 2 cam shoot out? DC 2.2 vs BC stage 2 vs skunk2 stage 2 etc?
We have recently released another cam test comparing these DIC to the Skunk2 Racing Ultra 1 Cam! You can find that video here - th-cam.com/video/OFhMZ8KmiJM/w-d-xo.html
lads dumb question, what did you use in that haltech to dump that huge flame is it the anti lag launch or the anti lag rally, cheers
All that room in the shop and they got him working in the cold doing a cam swap
Engines had to cool down completely stone cold before the next test so leaving Jim outside worked well! 😂😂
@@tungscrx makes sense
Is the valve clearance still the same when you fit these drop in cams?
I have Fn2 turbo 470+ hp what is better from this drop i cmashafts for boost?or the oem is ok and no defrence?thx alot
Do you need to limit the vtc on k20 with any of the drop in cams
i have fn2 turbo i want ot change the oem cams to skunk2 drop in or bc stage or another cams?car is more then 470 hp and i have 80 lbs springs need to change ?thx alot
Helo boss im a k20 owmer here in the Philippines.
Stock k20. What can you advice..? Do i need to change camshaft?
Are there any draw backs from DIC? Like does it loose any lower down torque? Or reduce revs without the valve springs being uprated?
I've seen the drag cartels taken to 8600 on stock springs but I'm personally going to run 8400 just to be safe... the lift is .7mm more than k20z3 cams so I wouldn't risk it
Hi there, have you guys try 12.5:1 CR and use those Drop in cams please? Its for Honda K24
Is it worth testing cam without tune to begin with ????
I hope you guys can answer this because I’m always late to the party.
Would u recommend skunk2 DIC on a stock k20z3 with single valve springs revving to 8300. Stock z3 oil pump. E85, I,H,E
Hi, I suggest watching our most recent cam test video which goes into more detail on the DIC and the Skunk2 Ultra 1 camshaft! - th-cam.com/video/OFhMZ8KmiJM/w-d-xo.html
That should help make your decision!
@@tegiwa thank u so very much for your response. Watching now.
Skunk2 pro stage 3 cam
Cam setup that really should be tested is OEM PRC/RBC/PRB intake cam matched with an RBB OEM US TSX exhaust cam. That should have better results then these high dollar after markets.
Also I’ve heard that setup is best for all motor street setups while boost setups tend to make more power on a 06-08 US TSX intake and exhaust cam.
I am currently making 250 whp on a k24k20 with this k20 intake can match with 24 exhaust cam on e85.
No valve contact issues?? 50degree vtc ?
@@amirudinpuaad5743 none. You don’t start having those issue until your using a higher compression piston and bigger cams. In which case you’d lock the cam anyway.
Usually up to stage 3 cams you shouldnt have an issue with contact.
One thing which I didn't catch in the video....are the dyno figures all from the base tune that was on the car with the stock cams, or has each one had the fuelling/ignition and crucially - the VVT optimised on the dyno?
All tunes were optimised for best performance from each Cams.
@@tungscrx thank you sir
How would these results vary on a k24?
Nice video, I’m wondering if you let the engine cool and reset the valve clearance when swapping the cams?
Yes, the engine was cooled down and valve clearances done with every cam change.
@@tegiwa tuned for each set as well?
Which ECU WAS BETTER? HALTECH OR HONDATA?
4pistons cams? 👀
awesome test, i still would go with drag cartel or skunk 2, i heard alot of rumors on skunk 2 cams being crap for K engine but for B they are king, i do need a cam for My K but stupid california emissions stop everything
Allways choose billet cams fabrication because of wear
I run the drag cartels dic first.... since 2019 the dc 2.2 since 24.000 km without Problems on the Street. Drag cartels win for me.... With the 2.2 is euro4 Regulation no problem with the german emmison test called abgasuntersuchung 😋
@@brunomanco7529 ....wrong
@@Earl_VTEC What wheel hp are you running with the drag cartels? This kinda info is mind numbingly difficult to come by on the forums? Im pushing 212whp 159tq with 3.5 intake, plm header, 3 inch full race exhaust and tune. Was thinking about supercharging it but would rather cam it if the gains are worth it.
MOVE! They’re communist’s running Cali and your car will very soon be ILLEGAL ENTIRELY.
Great video. I'm looking for more power in my jdm dc5 k20a in ek hatch. Was thinking drag cartel dic with 52mm itbs. I wondering what gains will be. I have 3 inch exhaust with v4 hondata. I'm currently at 200whp
Seems a little low. You should be able to get 230 from that motor
@@PolishedMobileDetailing503 in aus most are getting that. But most Video I watch everyone's getting over 200
@@kseriesdan9722 bruh you know we have the lowest reading dynamometer in the world lol, we're rolling it like a mustang dyno lol
@@alitoroganan2442 what in aus. If so yes I know. Lol compared to the world but America and UK are getting the 1/4 mile times also. So I'm feeling aus tuners are ripping us off if we only get 200whp and rest of world gets 230whp
@@kseriesdan9722 sheeet I hope not man but what if yea.. maybe driver mod??? tires? track? where you situated
Not revving these cams to 9-10k is a waste. What springs were they running?
K24 will these cans work good on a supercharged stock k24 wit just a 50vtc stock springs n valve wit a 4 piston oil pump 2000cc injectors hood exit header
Hi Jean Perez, which cams are you referring to?
Thanks.
Know anyone running keslford 179b ? Need some info on them
Right when the video started I thought it was a fart sound effect 😂 ohh Hondas
Yo does that k20 have valve springs and retainers or complety stock motor ????
Hi! Its stock.
Dam thats good for k20 stock i have a 05 k24a2 tsx motor with acura type s oil pump and vtc type s cam gear all new chains all type s i wanna make 260
Seems like the Skunk 2 has the best HP per $$$ value.
Looks like Jesse will be mapping mine soon !
What injectors are being run ?
That's what we love to hear!! And Grams 550cc.
@@tegiwa what HP would stock injectors be good until running roughly same set up with your skunk 2 DIC
@@user-op1tx5ki7n rdx injectors are good for practically any naturally aspirated set up. People run them to 300 whp
I remember back when there was a just a skunk one
This test proves what I have been saying for years- the K series engines aren't like the B and D series where you could gain 20+ HP with drop in cams with no downsides, these engines already have great cams from the factory. About all upgrading to non OEM cams in a K series does is waste your money and risk breaking the timing chain tensioner. If you are building a race engine with an unlimited budget and longevity isn't a concern than go for it, but other than that my advice is to save your money and keep your reliable OEM cams
Totally agree, Like upgrading the sleeves when the stock sleeves hold 500hp easy with a good tune
What? You do realize these are all "drop in cams" right? They are considered safe to run on stock valve train... you can pick up a ton of horsepower with bigger cams that require valve spring kits... people are making 300+ wheel on drag cartel 3.2 and stage 4 cams...
@@tylerb9471 I think you misunderstood my comment. What I meant to say is that the gains aren't there when upgrading cams on a K series engines like on previous engines. On a D17, a drop in cam can gain 20-30HP with no reliability downside. Definitely a noticeable gain on a sub 130HP engine. On a K20 or K24 you may gain 10HP from drop in cams, but there is a reliability downside and the reality is that gaining 10HP on a 200+HP engine isn't that noticeable. I looked at several dyno charts and every one I have seen has shown minimal gains from upgrading cams similar to what this video shows, only around 8-12HP. Read about the timing chain tensioner problems that these engines can have with aftermarket cams. Some are safer than others and there are aftermarket tensioners available that are less problematic, but they are still known to fail at a much higher rate than an OEM tensioner with OEM cams. A tensioner failure can easily destroy the whole engine, these are interference engines. If you want to spend $1K to gain 10HP and risk blowing your engine up then that's your choice, but I am gonna be sticking with my 06 TSX cams.
@@averyalexander2303 well said
@@averyalexander2303 even if you upgrade valve spring & retainers??
So tegiwa buy k20 ecus
What stages afreum these cams. The drag cartel
So confused. I've never seen such small gains from DIC on a K series, generally, I've observed 15-20whp.. I may have missed it but was a 50° VTC wheel used, 3-inch exhaust?
OEM VTC gear and yes 3" exhaust.
You'd probably see that extra 5ish hp from a better intake. Not sure the size of the tb either. Id like to see a ported rbc on this set up instead of that manifold. The skunk2 ultra tends to do better on 2.4's or revving to the moon on built k20s.
@@reidmitchell1980 I keep forgetting this was a K20 not a K24. The lack of hp gains has me stumped, I think as you mentioned the IM must be choking it a bit.
@@lw1878 yeah I think with a better intake and revving past the 8600rpms they'd see close to an extra 5hp. Usually though the drag cartels on a k20 are good for around 10hp with basic bolt ons. Raise the compression, port the head and better intake and those same cams revvd to 9500rpm would be really nice. I have a k20z3 and I've been going back and forth on which cams to get. Drag cartel dics are my top choice. For reliability and power. I have all the supporting bolt ons just need to install my rrc oil pump and the cams and time to have some fun 😆
Is there a reason the air filter is right next to the header still.. this is a nice car, aside from
Driving in wet weather it’s losing power from that style intake.
This was temporary for the test. Mike is continuing to work on the car ready for Time Attack, so stay tuned for the final build!
That's even where spoon and mugen place there intake
So I would say it works
Most of the fresh air that comes in, Comes from between hood and windshield not from front of car, and if you think about it your radiator is hot too
Cold air intakes ruin alot of daily drivers
Massive props to Tigiwa for putting this out there. I think plenty of people would have buried this info! Anyone who drops a grand with labour for 9hp gain wants their head examined. Take that money and swap in a k24A3 from an accord. Has the same cams as USDM K24A2 that Americans rave about. Those motors regularly hit 300hp with not a lot of work.
You might see 260 in a k24a3 with good quality bolt ons, 70+mmTB, 3" exh, 50 deg VTC and K20 oil pump. 300hp isn't possible without building the engine, as you can only safely rev it to 7500 on stock internals.
@@yetidh9 nah, sorry to say you're wrong on all fronts, my friend Richard Holdener ran a stock K24a2 to 8700rpm on Skunk2s own dyno making over 60 pulls, not a hint of an issue with the stock pump, it's an old wife's tail. Plus they made North of 300hp multiple times testing cams, intakes, and headers. P.s. k24a2 and a3 are same motor just usdm and edm numbers.
I should also mention that they ran that same bone stock K24 with stock oil pump not k20 pump, with boltons and a 75mm turbo to 647hp so again it's just not true that stock can't make big power. They did ruin one stock damper that they changed out for another stock damper!
@@cantgoslow No tuner I have spoken to would rev a stock k24a3 over 7500. It's just not safe. The oil pump isn't the issue it's the piston speed and you can calculate those yourself. At 7500, it's roughly the same as a K20 at 8600. So if you only rev your engine to 7500, you can't make 300whp. You need more revs which you just kindly confirmed.
@@yetidh9 so what you're saying is you've chatted with some un-named 'tuners' who don't 'think' you can run a K24 over 7500rpm. And I'm saying Richard Holdener, one of the most revered tuners and engine builders in the world-- his famous Big bang theory 1500hp 4.8ltr truck motor is Internet meme lore-- actually ran a bone stock k24 at 8700rpm on perhaps the most famous Honda dyno, making over 60 pulls which is mammoth load on any motor, and made 647hp. To be frank those 'tuners' need to do less guessing and more proving because their guessing doesn't seem to be worth much
@@cantgoslow Maybe the smaller tuners don't want to risk their customers' engines. Why do Honda set the K24 Rev limit at 7300? My guess it's to be on the safe side and I'm happy to take their advice.
So with a tune these cams would make a fair bit more power correct?
Upgrades generally need accompanying ECU programming to get the best out of them. Having a custom fuel map tailored to the particular upgrades fitted is going to make the best results.
I believe every set of cams was tuned for optimum by J.Cal
bro, come one.....whats with the nasty valve cover
Is the DC5 & FD2 cam the same ?
Hi, yes it is - www.tegiwaimports.com/genuine-honda-dc5-fd2-jdm-cams-camshafts-k-series-k20a-k20a2.html
yes
@@tegiwa how much extra would it make just from being dropped into an FD2 with its higher comp & few other things that are better head flow being one of them ?
@@chrismurphy6285 Probably a test you'll never see in this country
Got to let that graph eat till 9000 minimum 😂
Thanks for the video guys!! So did a 3inch exhaust system and a Skunk2 ultra only make 240hp on a stock k20a2? Normally they always exceeded 250hp with these bolt ons 🤔
No, most K20A2s make 240 hp (at the crank) with full bolt-ons (as in, 70 mm TB, intake and intake manifold, engine-back exhaust system). Anything over 240 hp (at the crank) needs drop in cams.
@@nvl2691 depends on the dyno. Mine's full bolt ons and got 242 at a dyno and 256 at another.
@@TheRaceAcer Exactly, but most dynos runs average at about 240 hp with said modifications.
The best thing to do would be to get a few runs done before modifications, then after modifications, and compare the power increase in percentage.
@@nvl2691 Ive seen literally hundreds of K20A2 make over 250 at the crank/flywheel with basic bolt ons
@@kristianharley7231 That's really odd, because here in Switzerland most EP3s top out at 240 hp FBO tuned, and most FN2s top out at 230-235 hp FBO tuned.
what fuel?
Tesco Momentum 99.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
Motorcycle power
My 8 gen accord has the KA24A2 engine. What can I do to get it to 300HP keeping it NA? Thanks!
I read I can throw on a turbo and make 500 with stock internals but I would like to know can I reach 300 HP with stock internals NA, but swapping out exhaust, manifold, intake, weight and a tune. Just wondering if it’s possible or do I have to upgrade the cams, pistons and valve train? Thanks!
Nice Comparison
If they could give more rpm it could gain even more extra hp :)
My setup with stock engine, modded RSP Intake Manifold, aem v2 Coldairintake, SSR style header, 70mm Tegiwa Catback and 200cpi was about 245 max rpm 8600
Now with toda a3 cams and Toda Valvesprings and max 9100rpm, what you think or estimate how much they gained?
Interesting. Not really worth the outlay for me then for the outlay/gains. I’d just get the Skunk2 tuner cams, springs and retainers for not much more than the DC and TDI drop ins cost.
LSD comparison would be good and good excuse for a trackday. My car came with a Quaife ATB but apparently the M Factory/Wavetrack is much better if you listen to the internet.
Mfactory is better, but not worth the change if u allready have the quaife. Invest in larger wheels. I have the mfactory now with 255/40r17 at front. I had 235/40 but they werent enough
Will ant of these cams work on a k20a4 in a crv id be curious to see the results
No
@@abdullahsekai4279 will have to do the head swap then lol 😆
Have to swap your pistons if you plan on running a k20 head with that bottom end
Guessing you meant k24a4 in your original comment ^
@@tylerb9471 nah bud k20a4
Try TbMotorworxs cams!!!!
I hate hearing "it is what it is"
Everything, is in fact, what it is...
It would be impossible for it not to be
Is what it is
It is what it is
It is a test , yes , but not really a 100% true test. All those cams goes past your limiter set at. On a 2 liter at that stroke all those will make more power after your limiter
So basicly you dont feel any difference
cams are not enough. go eith proper stage2. sprins, retainers, pump, lighweight flywheel, adjustable, cam gear, injectors. tune up with hondata k pro so you got 250hp+ na
£72 per Bhp gain on the shunk2 😂
Ain’t no way the butt dyno will feel it that small gain.
you're right, except that on the street you would feel the gain in torque at lower revs which is where this cam is quite differnet to the rest. Off track, you ask for power from the engine a lot more often when it's at 4500rpm than for the brief period it's over 8k. Driving round at 6k+ all the time would soon become tiring. Like the tuner said -depends what you're building the engine for.
So over 600 pounds for 9hp 😂 would be better off with a ebay turbo kit
Keep the standards cams, spend the money on a WON kit. £/bhp is vastly better value for money
Won Kit???
@@highthai7 wizards of nitrous
All you really have to do is upgrade the springs, retainers and seats and maybe a port and polish to the head and you would be ok. The k series engines love air flow