Pepper spray is one of those things I didn’t think I would ever carry before I did police academy. After experiencing it I realized just how disorienting it can be, and I’ve always carried it since starting patrol.
For me personally I love OC spray. I use to carry it as a sheriffs deputy, but now for the city department I work for they won’t allow OC and taser, because it could potentially catch on fire if both are used in conjunction. Which I get, but I mainly liked having OC spray for dogs. Off duty I carry Pom OC and it is fantastic I’ve used it several times this year on dogs and worked very affectively. Other than that I do carry the same exact asp collapsable I use for dogs, windows ect.
The OC taser 🔥 issue was dependent on the propellant utilised and repeated dousing (ie at least a full can or more) before it posed a fire hazard. MythBusters challenged it once and was also overly misrepresented in CSI.
@@dovesarygray8076right. Taser is a temporary and inconsistent 5-10 second ride on a dragon. Then it’s over until you go for another ride. OC is sitting in the dragons fire and there’s nothing you can do but let it suck. Wash it off. Burns all the way down and everything it touches or gets into to. Just a completely shit time. And has a track record that it works on or or at least significantly impairs the vast majority of people hit with it. And is a lot easier to carry with a fire arm as well than basically a small plastic fire arm shaped thing as well
It's a great tool in prisons and jails. We use it to break up fights, to stop riots like you mentioned, to prevent staff assaults, to conduct cell extractions through level 3 area OC exposure, and get get a resisting subject to cuff up or to comply. A lot of us Correctional Officers are exposed to OC so much that we are used to area contamination. So far, the Fox labs OC I carry every day has had a 100 percent success rate in gaining immediate compliance after deployment. Some departments may not allow Fox, but if it is an option, I highly recommend it. This was a great video.
Fox is great. Spraying a combo of that and phantom has avoided a few extractions. I wouldn't trust any other Sabre oc besides phantom, been proven to be garbage more than once.
As an armed security officer my company doesnt allow me to carry a baton or a taser due to potential liability. OC spray is the only less lethal option I have.
As a Prison Officer in HMP, we now carry PAVA. Amazing tool for crowd control and using it to keep distance in general. However inside such units, the cross fire is as fun as you can imagine.
I would greatly see the use of both of those, however in the UK Tasers and PAVA are classed as firearms and the issuing of PAVA has taken years. In training I was trained in the use and after care of deploying PAVA however getting issued it was a nightmare. I think it took around 4-5 months to get issued it. So up until that point I only carried a 21inch autolock baton. However still have never drawn either my baton or PAVA in the time I've worked in HMP.@@dustroys7239
I do security & carry LE grade Mk lll on duty, on occasion. In 2023, "excited" delirium is a big concern. Pepper sprays or OC might not be as effective as a suspect or EDP who's not on drugs, bath salts(Flakka).
I work for a medium-sized municipal agency in Arizona, and we are required to carry pepper spray and tasers, but not batons. We aren't issued batons but are trained in both the expandable and side handle PR-24 and can carry them if we want to. The city I work in is Phoenix adjacent and some of it is very urban and some is very rural, and some is suburban. Early on in my career, I was voluntold to join our riot squad but have stayed on it since, and I was deployed for days at a time during the Floyd riots. I have been trained in not only OC, riot baton/shield, but every less lethal munition you can fire from a launcher that you can think of. I am personally a big fan of OC spray. I have used the MK9s for riot control to great effect, I have deployed OC on combative subjects on the street and on barricaded subjects inside of structures, including cars. For regular patrol use I carry the Sabre Red MK4 stream. When deploying it on combative subjects it has only ever been when it is just me and them. Tasers are great but I don't trust them without a backup officer present because they are routinely defeated by clothing, I have yet to encounter someone that can fight through OC spray, but its also rare that I even have to spray, tase, or hit someone because I know how to talk to people. The most important skill any officer can have is their conversational skills. Your brain and mouth will get you farther than anything else, your tools should be for when that doesn't work although some people leave you no choice but to go to your tools.
At my current agency they require we carry all 3 less lethals to "not limit our oprions". Personally, I love OC and it is right up front on my belt. At my last agency however it was optional. So I kept my OC. I didn't carry my X2 or ASP.
I worked armed security for a huge homeless shelter in texas 32 acree big 5,000 plus people and OC was the only none leathel we had it seems to work better then the tazers PD had
Be aware OCs or pepper spray over time can degrade or wear down. I'd replace the OC after 3-5yr. Check the label or company. I prefer stream sprays over fog, gel.
@@thedudejackietreehorn note: weather & heat 🌡 can affect pepper spray or OC too. I would not rely on it in extreme heat. Do NOT store it in vehicles, cars.
I work in a smaller city where it is incredibly common to have a semi-feral dog that “almost” belongs to you. These people have nearly zero control over their dogs and they will bite a responding officer. Dogs constitute like 98% of my OC uses.
OC spray is effective. However, if you want something that takes the fight out of a subject, then I recommend OC spray with CS gas combined, works fantastic. Sabre makes this formulation.
A lot of agencies in Minnesota are switching to a brand called REPULS. It basically affects the eyes and skin with the burn feeling, but 0 breathing affects so it only affects who its on. The decontamination also only needs 1/2 a bottle of water and its done. Doesn’t re- activate. Pretty nifty.
That's not good. You want it to be a respiratory irritant too. Because that takes the fight out of the suspect. As an OC instructor, you want both involuntary eye closing and respiratory irritant. That gives you the best chance of the suspect to stop resisting or stop the suspect right in their tract.
i respect your opinion however i carry it since i’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it since it’s a small can i can easily fit on my belt
29 years LEO bas MP & Fed (now retired) and found OC a fantastic tool, if you use it soon enough. Yes, there’s cross contamination, but it’s much better in many situations than taser or baton.
Speaking as someone who was a big city repossessor and private investigator for almost 20 years in some of the most dystopian ghettos in America, pepper spray is absolutely awesome as long as your goal is not to take the other person in custody. Pepper spray is great for citizens and not so great for cops. I particularly like the combination cs/oc sprays.
General guidance. Follow your policy and applicable laws. Different roles, different tools. Ounces equal pounds the longer you work. Use of force in my area all less then lethal are same levels of force. Oc baton taser fist same thing. Use whatever is effective and legal for the situation. Never not use something or do something due to optics. If you do, eventually you are going to be hurt or killed. Stay safe.
Not sure what department you are with but just about every department I know of, including mine, still carries OC. TASERs are great, until they don't work which is about 50% of the time. If you train with OC and use it appropriately, its a great tool.
My department uses a lot of OC. Our most common method is with somebody who is actively fighting but we have some level of control, and the third officer sprays some on a rubber glove and rubs it in the suspects face. Minimizes contamination, and works great.
I have used my OC SPRAY Mark 3 safe life defense for 25 years now. It works better than my X-2 taser. I use my ASP now and then. I miss using my PR-24. I took off my taser.
When the taser became really popular, bunch of the motor cops stopped carrying their baton. They bought into the whole idea that the taser is the end all beat all solution because they have seen it work so many times. Now and days cops still want to rely on it but stopped carrying their pepperspray. IMO with how many times I have seen the taser fail and pepperspray work, I will continue to rely on pepperspray as an option but to always remember to transition as the less lethal option fails.
I'm big fan of OC spray but it has it's limitations. It works when applied correctly in the right situation. It's also effective on dogs if you spray their nose. I prefer it over shooting a dog. I currently don't work patrol anymore, so I don't carry it anymore. Also the police in my country don't carry a taser. Only special response teams have it. We just get Oc, baton and a firearm.
From watching Active Self Protection, it seems like Tasers have about a 50% effectiveness rate but OC spray is nearly always effective at taking the fight out of someone. A quick blast of OC can knock the resistance out of them as their face is now on metaphorical fire. Since the Taser is the new hotness it's what everyone wants to use. Both Tasers and OC have their uses and it's worth carrying both. If you use spray OC instead of fog it's less likely to get blown back.
You have to realize that what you watch of encounters on the internet is curated to maximize views. This does skew our perceptions of the world. Tasers when used as originally intended work gloriously. Policy and law have restricted how they can be used to ineffective methods. Oc is best used before the fight is really on. If you try it while clinched up with someone or as fists are flying...well everyone gets a dose.
I'm a civilian, but carry OC along with my sidearm. It would do something in an encounter, if you can get it on the face. Or alternately, it may render an interior space uninhabitable for a few minutes. If you just get it on skin or clothes, especially outdoors, its not worth much IMO. I've tried a couple, Sabre Red, the green one whatever that is, and currently another one. I buy the most expensive, best rated ones in a stream configuration. When the expiration on the can arrives I replace them and also take the opportunity to spray some on my arm or leg to see what I feel. Its basically nothing. A kerosene type smell and a slowly building heat that becomes mildly uncomfortable over a couple minutes. Wouldn't stop me from engaging with someone if I was a bad guy at all. I haven't tried getting it on my face and I'm sure that would be MUCH worse. To sum up if its not in the eyes or being inhaled its sort of worthless, at least that's my experience.
@security29 ok the phrasing was confusing because you said "as a security guard I am carrying," which would be on duty equipment. Idk if I was going for a walk maybe but to the grocery store or whatever probably wouldn't risk it because of carry concealed weapon
Used it ONCE, never again. It's not that it doesn't work (it doesn't some times but it does a lot).... It's because then YOU have to put your hands on them, and now You're Being exposed to it, especially if they are resisting. We're required to carry the Foam/Gel, but I never use it. Even with that stuff, it gets all over. Only time I'd use it is riot control (ERT Team) and we have on respirators. Besides, my dept, like many, Once you OC some one, we are prohibited from using Taser. If we're going hands on, we're going hands on. Tasers fail, and OC SUCKS to fight in.
I am not a sworn law enforcement officer, nor have I been, and since I'm retirement age it is almost certain that I'll never be. OC is something I carry with me when not prohibited because I am more likely to get away from an attacker without injuring either of us than if I go hand-to-hand. Back in 1978 I had an encounter on the mess deck of the USS Tripoli as a Marine on mess duty. A group of sailors surrounded me and one tried to fight me--I threw a handful of black pepper in his face and moved to do him more harm but the fight was over. I had been filling pepper shakers and I expected the pepper would only distract him a moment or two, my opportunity to take him out of the fight--but he gasped and inhaled at least a tablespoon of that powdered pepper and didn't want to fight any more. Fight over--lucky me. That sailor seems to have been the amphibious task force boxing champ. I was out-classed. Pepper avoided injury. I did have help--another Marine from the avionics shop had my back. No need to do more damage. Better still, I was never again bothered by a sailor on the Tripoli. Specific tools for specific jobs--a baton used on green areas still creates bruises and contusions. Most confrontations are not deadly force, so using pistol bullets isn't justifiable. I'm sure that my purple belt in Kenpo Karate will impress people just as much as my Marine Corps hand-to-hand combat training way back when or the security guard handcuffing and baton training--no impression at all. Personal defense goals are get away from the person trying to hurt me, stop that person's unprovoked attack, get to safety--and follow through with appropriate action. Pepper spray is less than 100 % effective, there are contamination issues, the wind affects usefulness, there are other people in the area (always a consideration even when using only hands and feet), and most of all, hosing down someone and then standing there admiring my handywork will just get me stomped into the pavement. OC is a tool to gain time to do something else. I can easily imagine pepper spraying someone, cuffing them (and crying because the subject is now contaminated), then putting the subject in a closed patrol car and trying to drive to the station for booking. I'd have to wear a gas mask! When working as a security guard, any tear gas product was prohibited for me because of licensing issues and because "don't give nothin' away for free--the client didn't pay for an ARMED guard." Plus, tear gas in the war zone where I worked as an armed security guard was considered to be a war crime. I did experience CS in gas chambers during training--several times--but wasn't authorized to use CS, DM CN or OC as part of my official duties or while employed as a force professional. I used black pepper aboard the Tripoli because that's what I had. OC would have worked better as a distractor if I had it--but even black pepper required "decontamination" because there was pepper on the deck, on the tables, on the chairs, and I was lucky I didn't pepper myself. I learned to carry decontamination wipes with me when I carry pepper spray--I had a cannister of Mace activate in a pants pocket one time and I learned from that. Pepper spray is very limited. Sometimes OC is the wrong answer. Why carry what you don't need? My goal is learning something every day. Thanks--this video filled met today's goal.
So a different perspective here. When I used pepper spray (CDCR), many time it was on more than one perpetrator. That is it's niche. Though I never used a Taser, the problem was if you were to tase one guy, well someone is going to come to his aid, or in a at least one circumstance I was involve in the taser failed.
Wait what? I teavel reguarly around the nation and almost every cop i run into has OC. They just dont seem to keep ot on a belt location that is readily available. I think most cops now keep OC simply for dogs. Its probably a reguonal thing. Does OC work less effectively in cold, dry areas? I live in the south east and OC works bery well (i worked armed awcurity for 7 years and OC was so.erhing i reguarly used for dealing woth dogs and largw unruly crowds). Btw i found your videos 7 years ago and youre legit a major factor into why i progressed through the ranks at my job and also why i realized i wasnt fit to be an officer.
Took OC off my belt six years ago. I primarily work the expressway in a windy plains state. Doesn't usually work out well. Still carry baton and TASER. A simple display of TASER gets me compliance. Anyone who doesn't comply with that normally won't comply after getting OC'd either. If TASER is successfully deployed we might even get them secured while their muscles are locked. I'll save my eyes, any assisting units eyes, limited belt space, and my back.
I personally don’t carry it on my belt because no one wins with OC. I’ve been in fights and another deputy will pop OC now we’re still fighting but we’re all blind. I keep it in the door for aggressive dogs but as far as people go it’s a nope.
Former prison guard, so take this for what it's worth. Gel is exactly what it sounds like. It's a gel. It sorta works, kinda. I have seen and experienced the subject basically wiping the gel from wherever it hits them and throwing it back at us. It sucks. A spray, or fog, is somewhat better. A stream is the best imo, although you must always be aware that if indoors, you will be effected as well. Everyone will. Stream, good. Fog, meh especially outside.
Just as an additional fun point here. When I worked Mt. Olive in West Virginia, we had a yard riot (not really a riot riot but mass noncompliance and potential for things to heat up quickly) We had a backpack mounted OC with a hose connected to a sprayer. Looks kinda like an old flame thrower, but with pepper spray. I've seen it used probably three times and it absolutely clears the yard. It's awesome but as with any chemical spray, we all felt the burn that day. I've seen it used inside a block as well. Just a ridiculous amount of chemical blasted through the beanhole of the main door. Shut that party down.
Gel pepper spray is a thick heavy, dense substance (kind of Like the consistency of honey) and its main use is for indoor applications. The reason why is because it is a dense formula and it does not aerosolize (meaning it does not get into the air) so it won't contaminate others or the environment. It won't get into the AC and travel and contaminate others.
There is no such thing as regular pepper spray. It's liquid based. But the liquid formula can come out in different patters.... stream, spray, cone, or fog. The only one I recommend as an instructor is stream. Because you can basically control exactly where you want to spray the suspect. Of course as long as it's not windy. Stream is meant for ourdoors... not indoors. Because it can aerosolize and get into the air or AC and contaminate other people.
OC spray (suspect repellent) is far better than a stupid Taser or ASP (expandable) baton. Those batons are worthless. The Taser is about as worthless as a water ballon for police work. I’ve seen the taser fail more often than not. I preferred my Gonzales 415 sap and a straight stick, once my employer reauthorized them and after nearly 40 years of the PR-24.
10 year former correctional officer and I watched OC be ineffective too many times to ever trust it. One of my co workers got his hand broken because a guy took a whole can to the face who was not effected nearly as much as he was. Blinded and choked himself while the other guy attacked him almost unbothered. Being able to force compliance from outside of a cell was the best use I found, highly combative individuals refusing to be cuffed through the slot, you can apply it multiple times if needed and eventually the adrenalin wears off and they get tired of being in pain. OC has some uses but I agree they are niche.
In jail & prison most agencies usually have two different OC sprays for this exact scenario. Problem inmates usually develop a tolerance to the regular old saber red, that’s when you gotta bust out the fox or freeze +p.
Different missions, different tool-sets. I have a Mk3 anytime I'm wearing trousers. That, along with a higher-velocity tool, one each "oh, crap, I'm bleeding a lot" and "you're bleeding a lot" kits, light, blade and lighter. Pants-on, tools-on. But the OC is mission-driven when my purpose is to break contact. It's kept me out of emergency department and any paperwork on three separate occasions. Call me any names you like but, barring other considerations, I'm gonna beat feet, in lieu of a fight.
As an OC instructor, it is not a preferred method of carrying OC. Stream is the best for outdoors and GEL is best for indoor applications. With pepper ball guns, there is a higher risk of cross contamination when the capsule breaks.
Plus with pepper ball guns, you are aiming for center mass. When the capsule breaks, your hoping that the content gets inhaled by the suspect. And it's more of a respiratory irritant. For pepper ball guns, when the ball makes contact, when it breaks, it's more of a powder form. And it can go everywhere. Including if you or someone close by inhales it. Especially on a windy day.
The only reason why a pepper ball gun is beneficial is for the initial pain from getting hit by the ball (hoping that deters them). And the distance. The pepper ball usually can travel farther than the stream.
And I only recommend 2 brands. Not the one he is carrying. First defense and mace brand sucks. Only carry Sabre Red and Fox Labs. I've heard about POM. It's new and I personally have not tried it or used it. But it is for personal use. And there is not enough data for me to recommend POM.
Lets say it ! You don't carry it because you was train to kill first and ask questions later ( all for the officers safety ) . Having an OC spray on you an not using it before murdering 15yo kid would raise a questions in court room. Lawyer - " why didn't you use OC spray before reaching for your gun?" Cop - "Because they teach me to kill first , for my own safety of course"
i’m currently in college and debating getting a masters afterwards. but i’m very interested in law enforcement. all of it. can’t decide between a local PD or a “bigger picture” position in maybe the CIA or FBI. i speak 4 languages fluently and have a lot of travel history and both my parents work with the federal government (FAA and SBA) any advice from anyone? thanks.
Being able to speak multiple languages is already a huge advantage if going federal LE. I know most federal agencies want at least 3 years of police experience before they would consider. Not all of them (there are a lot of federal LE agencies). If you really want to do something like FBI, Secret Service, DEA, etc… I would recommend you get your foot in the door on the street whether it be local PD or state police. Police work is definitely not for everyone so keep that in mind. If you can handle being on the streets for 3 or more years then you already have a resume booster if you decide to go federal. Best of luck!
Also I wouldn’t recommend using the words “cop” and “pig” in the same sentence if you want to make yourself look good on a background investigation. Just a thought
FBI or CIA is a way better paying job. And if you can go federal, that's the way to go. They are always looking for people that can speak more than 1 language. You would definitely have an advantage over other applicants.
I would recommend trying fo get in contact with the FBI or CIA in your hometown and ask for a recruiter or to speak to an agent. I am sure they will be willing to help you.
We are required per policy to carry OC. I have never used it. Never threatened it. I just hate it so much that I don't want to use it and have it come back on me
Pepper spray is one of those things I didn’t think I would ever carry before I did police academy. After experiencing it I realized just how disorienting it can be, and I’ve always carried it since starting patrol.
For me personally I love OC spray. I use to carry it as a sheriffs deputy, but now for the city department I work for they won’t allow OC and taser, because it could potentially catch on fire if both are used in conjunction. Which I get, but I mainly liked having OC spray for dogs. Off duty I carry Pom OC and it is fantastic I’ve used it several times this year on dogs and worked very affectively. Other than that I do carry the same exact asp collapsable I use for dogs, windows ect.
The OC taser 🔥 issue was dependent on the propellant utilised and repeated dousing (ie at least a full can or more) before it posed a fire hazard. MythBusters challenged it once and was also overly misrepresented in CSI.
@@mb3558I brought it up, but my department doesn’t want to take any chances with the two, so taser and asp it is.
@@carson4388 I carry POM too and like it very much. I just wish they offered larger sizes, they're great people too.
@@carson4388 Mine is the same way. NO Taser after OC..... They also moved OC to the same UOF space as Taser.... So screw it.
OC still has a place in law enforcement. Have used it more effectively than tasers in certain situations.
So much same. I much prefer OC. Sure they can fight through it, but they can fight through the taser and OC lasts longer.
@@dovesarygray8076 me too
I've seen the taser fail more often than not. Had success with OC over the years.
@@forsakenmagic would you agree that the TASER is an "all or nothing" tool ie regarding effectiveness?
@@dovesarygray8076right. Taser is a temporary and inconsistent 5-10 second ride on a dragon. Then it’s over until you go for another ride. OC is sitting in the dragons fire and there’s nothing you can do but let it suck. Wash it off. Burns all the way down and everything it touches or gets into to. Just a completely shit time. And has a track record that it works on or or at least significantly impairs the vast majority of people hit with it. And is a lot easier to carry with a fire arm as well than basically a small plastic fire arm shaped thing as well
It's a great tool in prisons and jails. We use it to break up fights, to stop riots like you mentioned, to prevent staff assaults, to conduct cell extractions through level 3 area OC exposure, and get get a resisting subject to cuff up or to comply. A lot of us Correctional Officers are exposed to OC so much that we are used to area contamination. So far, the Fox labs OC I carry every day has had a 100 percent success rate in gaining immediate compliance after deployment. Some departments may not allow Fox, but if it is an option, I highly recommend it. This was a great video.
Fox is great. Spraying a combo of that and phantom has avoided a few extractions. I wouldn't trust any other Sabre oc besides phantom, been proven to be garbage more than once.
I love OC, it works 99% of the time whereas Tasers are 50% at best.
Pepper gel only, NEVER fog!!!!!
@@derweibhaiwhy?
As an armed security officer my company doesnt allow me to carry a baton or a taser due to potential liability. OC spray is the only less lethal option I have.
As a Prison Officer in HMP, we now carry PAVA. Amazing tool for crowd control and using it to keep distance in general. However inside such units, the cross fire is as fun as you can imagine.
We carry MK2s inside our prisons. We also carry the X2 tasers. For crowd control we have pepper ball launchers
I would greatly see the use of both of those, however in the UK Tasers and PAVA are classed as firearms and the issuing of PAVA has taken years. In training I was trained in the use and after care of deploying PAVA however getting issued it was a nightmare. I think it took around 4-5 months to get issued it. So up until that point I only carried a 21inch autolock baton. However still have never drawn either my baton or PAVA in the time I've worked in HMP.@@dustroys7239
Spare a thought for those of us who have mandatory carry
Honestly, I still carry OC on my belt. It is small enough (MK3 can) to not be in the way, and it is an additional tool that I can use.
I do security & carry LE grade Mk lll on duty, on occasion. In 2023, "excited" delirium is a big concern. Pepper sprays or OC might not be as effective as a suspect or EDP who's not on drugs, bath salts(Flakka).
I work for a medium-sized municipal agency in Arizona, and we are required to carry pepper spray and tasers, but not batons. We aren't issued batons but are trained in both the expandable and side handle PR-24 and can carry them if we want to.
The city I work in is Phoenix adjacent and some of it is very urban and some is very rural, and some is suburban.
Early on in my career, I was voluntold to join our riot squad but have stayed on it since, and I was deployed for days at a time during the Floyd riots. I have been trained in not only OC, riot baton/shield, but every less lethal munition you can fire from a launcher that you can think of.
I am personally a big fan of OC spray. I have used the MK9s for riot control to great effect, I have deployed OC on combative subjects on the street and on barricaded subjects inside of structures, including cars.
For regular patrol use I carry the Sabre Red MK4 stream. When deploying it on combative subjects it has only ever been when it is just me and them. Tasers are great but I don't trust them without a backup officer present because they are routinely defeated by clothing, I have yet to encounter someone that can fight through OC spray, but its also rare that I even have to spray, tase, or hit someone because I know how to talk to people.
The most important skill any officer can have is their conversational skills. Your brain and mouth will get you farther than anything else, your tools should be for when that doesn't work although some people leave you no choice but to go to your tools.
Yep. Your best tool is the one above your shoulders!
you get a dose 👆, You get a dose! 👈, YOU get a dose! 👆
_Everybody_ gets a dose of O.C. spray!
As a Corrections Officer I’ve seen OC spray be wayyy more effective than a taser. But that’s just my .02
At my current agency they require we carry all 3 less lethals to "not limit our oprions". Personally, I love OC and it is right up front on my belt. At my last agency however it was optional. So I kept my OC. I didn't carry my X2 or ASP.
I worked armed security for a huge homeless shelter in texas 32 acree big 5,000 plus people and OC was the only none leathel we had it seems to work better then the tazers PD had
Be aware OCs or pepper spray over time can degrade or wear down. I'd replace the OC after 3-5yr. Check the label or company. I prefer stream sprays over fog, gel.
I’ve heard of guys deploying their old aerosol OC only to have it soak their hand and not spray in a nice stream as intended.
@@thedudejackietreehorn note: weather & heat 🌡 can affect pepper spray or OC too. I would not rely on it in extreme heat. Do NOT store it in vehicles, cars.
I can tell you from experience that the aerosol propellant will absolutely go bad in some brands
I work in a smaller city where it is incredibly common to have a semi-feral dog that “almost” belongs to you. These people have nearly zero control over their dogs and they will bite a responding officer.
Dogs constitute like 98% of my OC uses.
I believe in having options. Anything to avoid pulling the trigger.
Exactly. Having options. I agree 100%
OC spray is effective. However, if you want something that takes the fight out of a subject, then I recommend OC spray with CS gas combined, works fantastic. Sabre makes this formulation.
A lot of agencies in Minnesota are switching to a brand called REPULS. It basically affects the eyes and skin with the burn feeling, but 0 breathing affects so it only affects who its on. The decontamination also only needs 1/2 a bottle of water and its done. Doesn’t re- activate. Pretty nifty.
That's not good. You want it to be a respiratory irritant too. Because that takes the fight out of the suspect. As an OC instructor, you want both involuntary eye closing and respiratory irritant. That gives you the best chance of the suspect to stop resisting or stop the suspect right in their tract.
i respect your opinion however i carry it since i’d rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it since it’s a small can i can easily fit on my belt
29 years LEO bas MP & Fed (now retired) and found OC a fantastic tool, if you use it soon enough. Yes, there’s cross contamination, but it’s much better in many situations than taser or baton.
Speaking as someone who was a big city repossessor and private investigator for almost 20 years in some of the most dystopian ghettos in America, pepper spray is absolutely awesome as long as your goal is not to take the other person in custody. Pepper spray is great for citizens and not so great for cops.
I particularly like the combination cs/oc sprays.
General guidance. Follow your policy and applicable laws. Different roles, different tools. Ounces equal pounds the longer you work. Use of force in my area all less then lethal are same levels of force. Oc baton taser fist same thing. Use whatever is effective and legal for the situation. Never not use something or do something due to optics. If you do, eventually you are going to be hurt or killed. Stay safe.
Not sure what department you are with but just about every department I know of, including mine, still carries OC. TASERs are great, until they don't work which is about 50% of the time. If you train with OC and use it appropriately, its a great tool.
My department uses a lot of OC. Our most common method is with somebody who is actively fighting but we have some level of control, and the third officer sprays some on a rubber glove and rubs it in the suspects face. Minimizes contamination, and works great.
I carried oc when driving a cab and doing repossession work. It came in handy on occasion
I have used my OC SPRAY Mark 3 safe life defense for 25 years now. It works better than my X-2 taser. I use my ASP now and then. I miss using my PR-24. I took off my taser.
When the taser became really popular, bunch of the motor cops stopped carrying their baton. They bought into the whole idea that the taser is the end all beat all solution because they have seen it work so many times. Now and days cops still want to rely on it but stopped carrying their pepperspray. IMO with how many times I have seen the taser fail and pepperspray work, I will continue to rely on pepperspray as an option but to always remember to transition as the less lethal option fails.
I'm big fan of OC spray but it has it's limitations. It works when applied correctly in the right situation. It's also effective on dogs if you spray their nose. I prefer it over shooting a dog. I currently don't work patrol anymore, so I don't carry it anymore. Also the police in my country don't carry a taser. Only special response teams have it. We just get Oc, baton and a firearm.
From watching Active Self Protection, it seems like Tasers have about a 50% effectiveness rate but OC spray is nearly always effective at taking the fight out of someone. A quick blast of OC can knock the resistance out of them as their face is now on metaphorical fire. Since the Taser is the new hotness it's what everyone wants to use. Both Tasers and OC have their uses and it's worth carrying both. If you use spray OC instead of fog it's less likely to get blown back.
You have to realize that what you watch of encounters on the internet is curated to maximize views. This does skew our perceptions of the world. Tasers when used as originally intended work gloriously. Policy and law have restricted how they can be used to ineffective methods. Oc is best used before the fight is really on. If you try it while clinched up with someone or as fists are flying...well everyone gets a dose.
With OC, there is about a 2% probability that it won't work.
It normally won't work on someone that's high or someone that is used to cayenne pepper.
@@bdogg20101 I guess that would depend on what your definition of "worked" is.
I'm a civilian, but carry OC along with my sidearm. It would do something in an encounter, if you can get it on the face. Or alternately, it may render an interior space uninhabitable for a few minutes. If you just get it on skin or clothes, especially outdoors, its not worth much IMO. I've tried a couple, Sabre Red, the green one whatever that is, and currently another one. I buy the most expensive, best rated ones in a stream configuration. When the expiration on the can arrives I replace them and also take the opportunity to spray some on my arm or leg to see what I feel. Its basically nothing. A kerosene type smell and a slowly building heat that becomes mildly uncomfortable over a couple minutes. Wouldn't stop me from engaging with someone if I was a bad guy at all. I haven't tried getting it on my face and I'm sure that would be MUCH worse. To sum up if its not in the eyes or being inhaled its sort of worthless, at least that's my experience.
O/C has been great when working 1up.
I am Canadian as a security guard I am carrying Saber dog spray
That's very risky imo, possession of weapon charges are easy to come by. Unless your site has a constant dog threat.
@@venz8201 no I am only carrying it off duty , I am all good
@security29 ok the phrasing was confusing because you said "as a security guard I am carrying," which would be on duty equipment.
Idk if I was going for a walk maybe but to the grocery store or whatever probably wouldn't risk it because of carry concealed weapon
It depends. It is all about the laws. I know in certain states if you spray a human with bear or dog pepper spray, you open yourself up to a lawsuit.
@@bdogg20101 very true
Bodily injury use here in Australia, remains a good public order option in the street of the city outside pubs and clubs, etc
Used it ONCE, never again.
It's not that it doesn't work (it doesn't some times but it does a lot)....
It's because then YOU have to put your hands on them, and now You're Being exposed to it, especially if they are resisting.
We're required to carry the Foam/Gel, but I never use it. Even with that stuff, it gets all over. Only time I'd use it is riot control (ERT Team) and we have on respirators.
Besides, my dept, like many, Once you OC some one, we are prohibited from using Taser.
If we're going hands on, we're going hands on. Tasers fail, and OC SUCKS to fight in.
When i was on a dept. I was sprayed with oc. I carried all the time. I now have saber . Gell with blue dye. Have no problem recommending it.
I think it’s foolish to limit your options.
My agency requires me to carry it on my duty belt. I would opt out if I was allowed to
I am not a sworn law enforcement officer, nor have I been, and since I'm retirement age it is almost certain that I'll never be. OC is something I carry with me when not prohibited because I am more likely to get away from an attacker without injuring either of us than if I go hand-to-hand. Back in 1978 I had an encounter on the mess deck of the USS Tripoli as a Marine on mess duty. A group of sailors surrounded me and one tried to fight me--I threw a handful of black pepper in his face and moved to do him more harm but the fight was over. I had been filling pepper shakers and I expected the pepper would only distract him a moment or two, my opportunity to take him out of the fight--but he gasped and inhaled at least a tablespoon of that powdered pepper and didn't want to fight any more. Fight over--lucky me. That sailor seems to have been the amphibious task force boxing champ. I was out-classed. Pepper avoided injury. I did have help--another Marine from the avionics shop had my back. No need to do more damage.
Better still, I was never again bothered by a sailor on the Tripoli.
Specific tools for specific jobs--a baton used on green areas still creates bruises and contusions. Most confrontations are not deadly force, so using pistol bullets isn't justifiable. I'm sure that my purple belt in Kenpo Karate will impress people just as much as my Marine Corps hand-to-hand combat training way back when or the security guard handcuffing and baton training--no impression at all. Personal defense goals are get away from the person trying to hurt me, stop that person's unprovoked attack, get to safety--and follow through with appropriate action. Pepper spray is less than 100 % effective, there are contamination issues, the wind affects usefulness, there are other people in the area (always a consideration even when using only hands and feet), and most of all, hosing down someone and then standing there admiring my handywork will just get me stomped into the pavement. OC is a tool to gain time to do something else. I can easily imagine pepper spraying someone, cuffing them (and crying because the subject is now contaminated), then putting the subject in a closed patrol car and trying to drive to the station for booking. I'd have to wear a gas mask!
When working as a security guard, any tear gas product was prohibited for me because of licensing issues and because "don't give nothin' away for free--the client didn't pay for an ARMED guard." Plus, tear gas in the war zone where I worked as an armed security guard was considered to be a war crime. I did experience CS in gas chambers during training--several times--but wasn't authorized to use CS, DM CN or OC as part of my official duties or while employed as a force professional.
I used black pepper aboard the Tripoli because that's what I had. OC would have worked better as a distractor if I had it--but even black pepper required "decontamination" because there was pepper on the deck, on the tables, on the chairs, and I was lucky I didn't pepper myself. I learned to carry decontamination wipes with me when I carry pepper spray--I had a cannister of Mace activate in a pants pocket one time and I learned from that. Pepper spray is very limited. Sometimes OC is the wrong answer. Why carry what you don't need?
My goal is learning something every day. Thanks--this video filled met today's goal.
So a different perspective here. When I used pepper spray (CDCR), many time it was on more than one perpetrator. That is it's niche. Though I never used a Taser, the problem was if you were to tase one guy, well someone is going to come to his aid, or in a at least one circumstance I was involve in the taser failed.
Wait what? I teavel reguarly around the nation and almost every cop i run into has OC. They just dont seem to keep ot on a belt location that is readily available. I think most cops now keep OC simply for dogs.
Its probably a reguonal thing. Does OC work less effectively in cold, dry areas? I live in the south east and OC works bery well (i worked armed awcurity for 7 years and OC was so.erhing i reguarly used for dealing woth dogs and largw unruly crowds).
Btw i found your videos 7 years ago and youre legit a major factor into why i progressed through the ranks at my job and also why i realized i wasnt fit to be an officer.
Carried OC for years on the job and never used it except on an attacking dog. Worked well on the dog.
Took OC off my belt six years ago. I primarily work the expressway in a windy plains state. Doesn't usually work out well. Still carry baton and TASER. A simple display of TASER gets me compliance. Anyone who doesn't comply with that normally won't comply after getting OC'd either. If TASER is successfully deployed we might even get them secured while their muscles are locked. I'll save my eyes, any assisting units eyes, limited belt space, and my back.
I personally don’t carry it on my belt because no one wins with OC. I’ve been in fights and another deputy will pop OC now we’re still fighting but we’re all blind. I keep it in the door for aggressive dogs but as far as people go it’s a nope.
It fits my budget nicely. Thx For the video Tommy.
They still carry OC in my city.
I've had extreme success with my MK4, MK9, MK 46 in a Correctional environment.
Thank you for sharing
As an unarmed security officer I carry a can of mace brand pepper gel. What’s the difference between a Gel based spray and a “regular” chemical spray?
Former prison guard, so take this for what it's worth.
Gel is exactly what it sounds like. It's a gel. It sorta works, kinda.
I have seen and experienced the subject basically wiping the gel from wherever it hits them and throwing it back at us. It sucks.
A spray, or fog, is somewhat better. A stream is the best imo, although you must always be aware that if indoors, you will be effected as well. Everyone will.
Stream, good. Fog, meh especially outside.
Just as an additional fun point here.
When I worked Mt. Olive in West Virginia, we had a yard riot (not really a riot riot but mass noncompliance and potential for things to heat up quickly)
We had a backpack mounted OC with a hose connected to a sprayer. Looks kinda like an old flame thrower, but with pepper spray.
I've seen it used probably three times and it absolutely clears the yard. It's awesome but as with any chemical spray, we all felt the burn that day.
I've seen it used inside a block as well. Just a ridiculous amount of chemical blasted through the beanhole of the main door. Shut that party down.
Gel pepper spray is a thick heavy, dense substance (kind of Like the consistency of honey) and its main use is for indoor applications. The reason why is because it is a dense formula and it does not aerosolize (meaning it does not get into the air) so it won't contaminate others or the environment. It won't get into the AC and travel and contaminate others.
There is no such thing as regular pepper spray. It's liquid based. But the liquid formula can come out in different patters.... stream, spray, cone, or fog.
The only one I recommend as an instructor is stream. Because you can basically control exactly where you want to spray the suspect. Of course as long as it's not windy.
Stream is meant for ourdoors... not indoors. Because it can aerosolize and get into the air or AC and contaminate other people.
So it depends on what you plan to use it for and where you plan to use it.
Indoors- Gel
Outdoors Stream
I carried a stick and then was forced to either carry oc or a taser. I took the taser but i also knew that it is only 40% effective.
OC spray (suspect repellent) is far better than a stupid Taser or ASP (expandable) baton. Those batons are worthless. The Taser is about as worthless as a water ballon for police work. I’ve seen the taser fail more often than not. I preferred my Gonzales 415 sap and a straight stick, once my employer reauthorized them and after nearly 40 years of the PR-24.
Jesus I just got sprayed today in the academy and easily the worst experience I could imagine.
10 year former correctional officer and I watched OC be ineffective too many times to ever trust it. One of my co workers got his hand broken because a guy took a whole can to the face who was not effected nearly as much as he was. Blinded and choked himself while the other guy attacked him almost unbothered. Being able to force compliance from outside of a cell was the best use I found, highly combative individuals refusing to be cuffed through the slot, you can apply it multiple times if needed and eventually the adrenalin wears off and they get tired of being in pain.
OC has some uses but I agree they are niche.
In jail & prison most agencies usually have two different OC sprays for this exact scenario. Problem inmates usually develop a tolerance to the regular old saber red, that’s when you gotta bust out the fox or freeze +p.
@@turbolegend3976 Same issue. If its worse for them its worse for you.. Ouchy
It depends on the brand. Unless it's Sabre Red or Fox Labs, no sense carry OC. The other brands sucks.
Different missions, different tool-sets.
I have a Mk3 anytime I'm wearing trousers. That, along with a higher-velocity tool, one each "oh, crap, I'm bleeding a lot" and "you're bleeding a lot" kits, light, blade and lighter.
Pants-on, tools-on.
But the OC is mission-driven when my purpose is to break contact. It's kept me out of emergency department and any paperwork on three separate occasions. Call me any names you like but, barring other considerations, I'm gonna beat feet, in lieu of a fight.
I carry the Sabre aim and fire pepper gel gun.
It's a gel I think gel is a lot better.
Just got sprayed. Top 3 worst pains in my life.
Exactly! Where you are it just doesn't make sense. Most departments just go full on lethal force anyway nowadays.
What's your take on pepperball guns for LE or personal self defence?
As an OC instructor, it is not a preferred method of carrying OC. Stream is the best for outdoors and GEL is best for indoor applications. With pepper ball guns, there is a higher risk of cross contamination when the capsule breaks.
Plus with pepper ball guns, you are aiming for center mass. When the capsule breaks, your hoping that the content gets inhaled by the suspect. And it's more of a respiratory irritant.
For pepper ball guns, when the ball makes contact, when it breaks, it's more of a powder form. And it can go everywhere. Including if you or someone close by inhales it. Especially on a windy day.
The only reason why a pepper ball gun is beneficial is for the initial pain from getting hit by the ball (hoping that deters them). And the distance. The pepper ball usually can travel farther than the stream.
And I only recommend 2 brands. Not the one he is carrying. First defense and mace brand sucks.
Only carry Sabre Red and Fox Labs.
I've heard about POM. It's new and I personally have not tried it or used it. But it is for personal use. And there is not enough data for me to recommend POM.
I hope that helps.
It's because partners keep spraying each other 😂😂
Lets say it ! You don't carry it because you was train to kill first and ask questions later ( all for the officers safety ) . Having an OC spray on you an not using it before murdering 15yo kid would raise a questions in court room.
Lawyer - " why didn't you use OC spray before reaching for your gun?"
Cop - "Because they teach me to kill first , for my own safety of course"
I carry it every day
We use Sabre phantom
Tasers also dont work 50% of the time
Freeze +P is very VERY effective on aggressive dogs. And using it doesn’t result in a UOR being written. 🤫
i’m currently in college and debating getting a masters afterwards. but i’m very interested in law enforcement. all of it. can’t decide between a local PD or a “bigger picture” position in maybe the CIA or FBI. i speak 4 languages fluently and have a lot of travel history and both my parents work with the federal government (FAA and SBA)
any advice from anyone? thanks.
Being able to speak multiple languages is already a huge advantage if going federal LE. I know most federal agencies want at least 3 years of police experience before they would consider. Not all of them (there are a lot of federal LE agencies). If you really want to do something like FBI, Secret Service, DEA, etc… I would recommend you get your foot in the door on the street whether it be local PD or state police. Police work is definitely not for everyone so keep that in mind. If you can handle being on the streets for 3 or more years then you already have a resume booster if you decide to go federal. Best of luck!
Also I wouldn’t recommend using the words “cop” and “pig” in the same sentence if you want to make yourself look good on a background investigation. Just a thought
FBI or CIA is a way better paying job. And if you can go federal, that's the way to go. They are always looking for people that can speak more than 1 language. You would definitely have an advantage over other applicants.
I would recommend trying fo get in contact with the FBI or CIA in your hometown and ask for a recruiter or to speak to an agent. I am sure they will be willing to help you.
Did you say a guy hiding behind a furnish? This stuff highly flammable lol
Not all of them are, the one I carry by Sabre is non-flammable
In animal control, its best not to leave home without it.
It depends on the brand too. The brand that you have First Defense is crap. The only 2 companies that make OC that is reputable is Sabre and Fox Labs.
Im plain clothes basically
We are required per policy to carry OC. I have never used it. Never threatened it. I just hate it so much that I don't want to use it and have it come back on me
carry skunk spray, instead 😄
Just carry a skunk instead.
skunk spray is like pepper spray, except it stops people, instead of making them angrier 😄@@bdogg20101