Thanks for the video and sharing your thoughts. I want to give my take on this. ME/CFS is a hyper reactive ANS disorder. Being in a chronic hyper state of flight or flight is detrimental to homeostasis. Explaining the massive array of symptoms. Bowels, energy and pain.. So why are we in this constant state of arousal? Conditioning... We fear and avoid a 30 minute walk, right?. Lets say we go on that walk, we get the symptoms, reinforcing the pathway in our brain that has associated that activity with danger. The body gives you protective signals to avoid danger by enabling fight or flight, creating symptoms, reinforcing that belief.. it goes round and round and round until it is deeply subconscious and autonomic. A conditioned over-reaction, one that was intended for bears and tigers but is now soooo sensitive it is triggered by something as minor as walking. Then this creeps into every corner of our lives. Walking, TV, washing, exercise, seeing friends, family and work. The list is endless right? This is why we simply can't push out of this. It takes a long time and must be done slowly. We must teach our subconscious that these activities are safe and give the body time to heal from the hyper aroused ANS. Creating an upward spiral, reversing how we got here in the first place.
Okay I have a theory about this, I’m not a scientist but just my experience. I think there are essentially two main factors at play here: persistent sympathetic activation that can be expressed in two ways (fight or flight or freeze and submit) and programming. Here’s what I mean. I think that to a degree with CFS we are always in sympathetic activation, meaning our body is always protecting against threats. For many of us this can cause what I’ll call “low symptoms”, which can consist of the heavy legs, fatigue, dizziness, pem, pain, etc. Then, you may notice that you have “high” symptoms that tend to appear when your not experiencing low symptoms, although some can coincide “anxiety, headaches, reaction to foods, tachycardia, high bp, feeling wired, etc.” but you see, all these symptoms, whether low or high are a result of the same sympathetic activation. Now the second part is programming. We get accustom to feeling a certain way so we begin to “feel that way” before we actually “feel that way” if that makes sense. For example, you may feel like shit when you wake up not necessarily because you slept poorly, but because you just automatically “feel like shit” because it’s a program. You may step into work and feel anxious, jittery and headachey not because your actually anxious but because your body is used to responding in that way... Before I got sick not only did I not have symptoms but life had a different “feel”, like time moved differently, events felt more vivid, energized, deeper. I think finding those feelings and training those feelings, where may be where my focus lies. I think Sarno is right about a lot of things, and you brought this up in the video, I think I’m done reflecting about past traumas and I’m going to focus on a positive now. I’ve had ups and downs on this journey, thanks for posting and helping me to never give up, we will all get there, 100 %
I really agree with this and although the emotional has been important to me on my journey it has been quieting my mind, mindfulness, and letting go of limiting beliefs that has made the most difference. For me, spending lots of time with the Three Principles understanding of the mind has been huge and for others The Lightning Process and DNRS have lead them to full recovery. Thus it is clear neuroplasticity is a big part of recovery.
My CFS symptoms - particularly what you describe as the "high symptoms" - just went through the roof with covid. Back in March I read about how shortness of breath is a symptom, and started worrying that as a CFS sufferer (which some may suggest makes me immuno-compromised) I was in grave danger, despite the logical part of my brain telling me I will be OK. Next thing you know, the chronic anxiety I experienced (along with fatigue etc) included a kind of sensation of shortness of breath. Coincidence? I doubt it. I think that understanding the root emotional traumas and where they stem from is important, but agree it may not be so much about reflecting on them endlessly. Once we understand and see that its the wiring, the programming etc that is at play, and see it for what it is. From there the journey I think is largely about dealing with negative thoughts, re-wiring the pathways by being open to new approaches and understanding at a deep level that there is organically nothing wrong with us. This includes I think avoiding Dr Google, patient forums (incl. debates within the CFS community), and even avoiding negative news or media (and most of it is negative). Its not the same as "pushing through it" and I think you and other may know what I mean. Its also more than acceptance (eg mindfulness etc)...although that can be very helpful too. While I never found a convincing argument from the "biologically based" camp, I think that dietary and lifestyle adjustments (which is essentially the best they have come up with so far in terms of clinically significant treatment) of course help ...but these things would help anyway if it is largely or completely caused by emotions/chronic stress. PS I found Dr. Schubiner's book and lectures helpful too.
Casa Rio dude the shortness of breath has been really bad for me lately too and I think this is also not a coincidence. I’m having a tough spirt at the moment because the gyms opened up and I also have two jobs (applied behavioral analyst and umpire) and I’m working anywhere from 8-10 or even twelve hour days and that’s with working out 5 times last week. The heaviness and brain fog the past couple days have gotten so fucking bad that I’m standing there calling pitches behind the mound (that’s what you do during covid in mass) and I’m having a panic attack virtually not being able to breath because I’m freaking out about how bad the symptoms are. And this morning I had a dream that one client cancelled a session via google meet this morning so I didn’t show up, only to realize that the session was never cancelled... on the way to work this morning I had the shortness of breath again, I watched some of these videos on the way in and I’m starting to feel a bit better... if these symptoms were caused by some sort of tissue damage, I’d be fucking dead. Period. I’m still here
~ I know that I'm late to the conversation here, but your comment really resonated with me. Using your example of sleep .. It doesn't seem to make any difference how well I slept, or how positive an attitude I went to bed with .. my ANS'/ Mind / Body's partnership appears to have developed its own story of what homeostasis should look like -- even when it looks like shit -- and its not about to jump out of the NeuroPathway ditch it's dug for itself. This same stubborn mal-adaptive programing has infiltrated into many areas in my life .. for example .. I can walk ten minutes back and forth on the porch with little problem; however, if I try to walk 5 minutes out in the garden, all hell breaks loose. I'm guessing that it's because I'd felt wretched a while ago while strolling through our innocent little garden, and now my brain associates the area with wretched feelings -- thus it is dangerous. ~Deep, murky ditch! 🥴
Dude, I will be applying to doctoral programs for Clinical Psychology next fall (fingers crossed I get in). I say that because you asked about professionals in this area/field. This is something I am VERY interested in researching (presuming I get accepted) and have personally explored- much like you. I think your critique is spot on. I bought Dr. Sarnos book and read it after stumbling across a few of your videos. I came to a similar conclusion. I think that due to chronic activation of the sympathetic (fight or flight) we become hyper-sensitive to our environment and/or any sensations. For me personally, I began viewing anything/everything as a threat because my brain was looking for something threatening. As I have begun to activate my para-sympathetic (rest and digest/relax) I am observing my body wanting to kick back into fight or flight. One of the biggest challenges is re-wiring my brain after years (but especially this past year) of feeling like “something is wrong with me; I am not in control of my symptoms; I’m not okay” etc.. One thing that stood out to me that I have fallen into is going back to childhood trauma and reliving it. I thought my symptoms were just repressed emotions. I think that due to MY trauma (speaking for myself) that initially they began as repressed emotions... meaning that I did not have the tools or understanding how to properly express them so I buried/suppressed/repressed them. Now, at 29, my brain still wants to access those neuro pathways because they are familiar. I have been trapped in the cycle of physiologically responding to trauma (activating fight or flight) even though I have processed through the emotions of that trauma MANY times through therapy. It’s like I’m caught in a glitch in the matrix. An endless cycle. Here’s the really beautiful shift that is happening right now (thanks to your videos and divine timing-I’m a spiritual guy): I have made a promise to myself that I won’t live in fear any longer. For me, the fear of my symptoms kicked me back into the emotional cycle of fight or flight which resurfaced the trauma/s and the cycle repeats. Now, when I have symptoms of pain (and trust me I still have them) I acknowledge them, remind myself I’m safe in this moment, my life is not being threatened, and I am okay. Then I take a centering breath (para-sympathetic/rest and relax). I have stepped into a freedom that is unlike anything I have ever experienced before. The freedom is a peace (restful state; free of fear) that has been calling me and EVERY other person who has gone through this-especially if you are reading this right now. I’m excited to hear about the progression in you and in others and share mine as well. God bless 🙏🏻!!
@@recoverfromcfs6707 it doesn’t mean it is going to be easy. It’s a daily reminder of “I’m safe, I’m okay, I’m not in any danger... these sensations will pass”. That is REALLY challenging when every unconscious part of me wants to revert back to what is comfortable (fear/fight/flight). You personally have been an inspiration to me. Funny how pathways cross when we are ready for them. I will say what I know about the brain is that the most difficult part of healing is going to be the first 62/64 days. Why that number? Because that’s how long it takes your neuro-pathways to form to where your body then starts to unconsciously adjust. I’ve always heard 30 days but that’s the case for someone who is healthy, not healing. It takes a little longer for those whose bodies are healing. I’m okay with that. I can be patient. QUESTION: I am curious though, is this something that you experienced? Were the first couple of months (give or take) pretty challenging?
It's been a challenging decade and a half give or take ;) Well for me it's been a steady increase in activity in the past couple of years with some minor setbacks (which in the past would have been major). In other words they were lapses, not relapses. And the reason is that I didn't get sucked into the fear, but reminded myself. I don't know know about the 60 days thing or whatever because I'm starting from bed bound and each new increase brings new fears. I would tell people to be prepared for the marathon and not focus too much on time periods. The very focus on how long it takes is just another fearful thought/behavior. :) Another thing that complicates the picture is that I was learning and refining my approach as I went along. And I had periods of increased doubt that slowed me down. Perhaps if I started doing everything correctly from day zero maybe the 60 days thing would make more sense. I didn't fully recognize how pervasive my anxiety/perfectionism is. And I discovered different aspects of it as I went along. Once I started being more active and living life, I had a new set of things to work through. It's a lot to handle all at once, so I had to focus on different areas while putting other areas on maintenance so to speak. So basically real life recovery is messy. A lot messier than neural pathway studies and such. Then there are external stressors out of your control. For example, there is this pandemic. And in general life happens.
@@recoverfromcfs6707 I appreciate the thoughtful response. I can only imagine where you are coming from. I 100% agree that it’s a process. I also feel like it’s a good reminder not to become too obsessed with setting goals but more so on the process itself. I’m certain I will experience lapses (not relapses) along my journey as well. I will gently remind myself of the promise I made (that I will not live/exist in a place of fear) and continue to work towards rest and relax. I guess, in a way, I feel like you are saying (and I’m beginning to experience this as well) that stepping into the rest, peace and freedom brings an entirely new set of challenges that will be the hardest thing I do in life... not to say that living through a chronic state of pain and suffering isn’t hard. It’s horrific. It’s just a different type of difficult. I do think we begin at different places along our paths. I was bed bound for a few weeks but was able to become semi-functional. The only reason I didn’t have to quit my job was because of covid and I was able to work from home. I really appreciate your perspective and it is encouraging for me to be reminded that this is a life long endeavor. Waking up everyday and remembering the promise I made to myself.
I am with you that the key emotional work is being aware in the present!!! Being aware and feeling my emotions has been really helpful in my recovery, but, for me, changing thoughts and beliefs and quieting my mind have been the things that have really brought down my nervous system. Some people do not do any emotional work and fully recovery with the Lightning Process, DNRS, etc. so obviously feeling emotions is not necessary to heal. I feel about 80-90% recovered and I am very aware of emotions that come up during the day and often do a somatic meditation daily to feel what I need to feel, but do no other emotional work that as found doing more than this (like journaling etc) really did not bring me forward.
Eveline L. Yeah I agree. I might actually go back to DNRS (I tried it last year, didn’t work for me) but I don’t think it would have worked without Sarno for me anyways. It really didn’t sink in the way it did with him, not to mention Annie Hopper is corny as hell lol. But I think the combined knowledge of Sarno, and utilizing the positive thoughts with Harper will be really helpful
I only journal if now if something happens in the present and I just need to get it out of my system so to speak. Just to express how I feel here and now. And also sometimes it helps me come up with constructive solutions as well. But stopped journaling about the past a while go and I don't think I'm ever going back.
Eveline L. Also, so happy to hear about your recovery! Would you put that percentage in terms of what you can accomplish or how you feel or both? I would say I’m 85-90 percent functional and it’s hard to put a percentage on how I feel because each day is different and I get a range of different symptoms, unfortunately with some new ones coming on, but also with some getting better. Most of the time I feel pretty bad one way or another but I’m thankful for the level of functioning I have, I can even workout pretty intensely just with an increase in symptoms
@@6473n64m19 For me it has not been adding positive thoughts but understanding that we are always living in the feeling of our thinking and that is what gives us our experience of life (Three Principles) so that it no longer makes sense to have stressful thinking, worry, thinking about symptoms, etc. have negative thoughts about myself,etc..). Spending lots of time of with the 3Ps, mediation, mindfulness, listen to Eckart Tolle audiobooks over and over, doing lots of parasympethetic breathing (belly breathing with long exhale) throughout the day and I have really quieted my mind and this has been the biggest thing for me. That being said so many people have recovered with DNRS and The Lightening Process, and my approach or those approaches all both deal with thoughts.
what do you think of "neural retraining " programs like DNRS, Gupta? They emphasise not entertaining negative thoughts, so discourage journalling which makes you recall bad events.
I think Gupta has the right idea. The presentation/delivery doesn't resonate with me, but I think could be helpful to some people. Don't know anything about DNSR.
I also came to this conclusion when I read Dr. Sarno's books. I don't think that the brain "creates" the symptoms as a distraction. I think the symptoms just happen as a result of the nervous system/brain stem response to internal stress. This internal stress could be caused by having high expectations of oneself, trying to be perfect, taking on too much responsibility, and most importantly, not being true to oneself (suppressing emotions, avoiding confrontation, ignoring core impulses). The conditioning is a layer on top of this that gives the symptoms a life of their own so to speak.
Absolutely, the process is helpful but easy to find similar CBT techniques for free online. I don't regret doing it but it is seemingly only part of my recovery process as I have a more emotional componant. Clearly it's the answer for some however I wish they wouldn't market it the way they do as a cure as it leads to disappointment for some. I also think they should charge a fraction of what they do!
Hey nice video, I also felt unsure about the explanation of the symptoms as a distraction. Your explanation makes intuitively a little more sense. However I was thinking that humans do have a tendency to look for controlled pain when they are under a lot of stress. Think about self mutilation, or even thinks like very spicy food in a less harmful way. I guess, there could also be an unconscious wish for this which could result in symptoms. What do you think? When I think about my own symptoms, I do feel in a weird way a little attached to them. Somewhere they do feel like they prevent me from fully feeling and being in the world, and that brings a certain kind of safety. If I were to imagine myself fully feeling and being present, a certain fear comes up. For me it's mostly at the core a fear of feeling inferior. I think it's very valuable to think about whether we are psychologically attached to our symptoms. Anyway I do agree we shouldn't focus on finding that suppressed feeling, and start stressing out about it. Only if it were that this stress would become another distraction. But still it could be valuable to look for a feeling that we are being distracted from, not necessarily in the past from old trauma's, but in the present. For me right now I think it is the feeling of inferiority. The weird thing is that the symptoms also make me feel inferior, so they are not a perfect distraction, but rather a controlled simulation of inferiority felt from outside condemning. I wonder how this works. I guess there is always an attraction towards our fears. edit: probably it feels weird to say that the brain creates symptoms, because it feels like it is a rational guy that thinks it's handy to create symptoms. A more intuitive explanation could be that it just feels better to deal with controlled pain that couldn't cause much danger from outside, like people making you feel inferior. And so the symptoms just come up more naturally, as in cause and effect... without seeing the brain as some autonomous architect, like you get the feeling with Sarno's explanation
I think Doctor Sarno is right only partialy. I usualy see increase of symptoms when Im under some mental discomfort, but its also fight or flight thing when Im exercising too much. Brain is very complicated and our state is result of many different things together. The hardest part for me is to be able to work mentaly, that generates disbalance and sleep disturbes :-(
Maybe a personal question, but do you feel like you’ve plateaued a bit? Is that’s why you’re making the video? If so I feel that way too it’s all good :)
Nah, i haven't plateaued. I'm continuing to progress steadily. I've actually been working (programming) a lot. Like full time, but working on my own project, not a job. Working out and everything. But like you, still have symptoms.
Where was your fybro in diffarant places I have intermittent ones and constant shoulders armpit s 2 years this location heal pain from rest 10 pelvic pain 26 years though git better stretching diet have hypomobility.mist folks do and Asperger's OCD before
Thanks for the video and sharing your thoughts.
I want to give my take on this.
ME/CFS is a hyper reactive ANS disorder.
Being in a chronic hyper state of flight or flight is detrimental to homeostasis. Explaining the massive array of symptoms. Bowels, energy and pain..
So why are we in this constant state of arousal? Conditioning... We fear and avoid a 30 minute walk, right?. Lets say we go on that walk, we get the symptoms, reinforcing the pathway in our brain that has associated that activity with danger. The body gives you protective signals to avoid danger by enabling fight or flight, creating symptoms, reinforcing that belief.. it goes round and round and round until it is deeply subconscious and autonomic. A conditioned over-reaction, one that was intended for bears and tigers but is now soooo sensitive it is triggered by something as minor as walking.
Then this creeps into every corner of our lives. Walking, TV, washing, exercise, seeing friends, family and work. The list is endless right?
This is why we simply can't push out of this. It takes a long time and must be done slowly. We must teach our subconscious that these activities are safe and give the body time to heal from the hyper aroused ANS. Creating an upward spiral, reversing how we got here in the first place.
Sorry for the essay ☝️
Yes!!!
I agree 100% and have seen this play out in my own recovery
How are you going on.ive been exercise hour dayb3 years Oct. Though helped sinus pelvic pain skeleton upper body same strength
I'm loving your video updates. Keep them coming. I can't wait till you and me and all the other people following you are fully recovered!
It’s also helpful to view your health problems as a perpetuated process instead of structural damage.
Miss you brother! I hope you return with more videos again one day.
Okay I have a theory about this, I’m not a scientist but just my experience. I think there are essentially two main factors at play here: persistent sympathetic activation that can be expressed in two ways (fight or flight or freeze and submit) and programming. Here’s what I mean. I think that to a degree with CFS we are always in sympathetic activation, meaning our body is always protecting against threats. For many of us this can cause what I’ll call “low symptoms”, which can consist of the heavy legs, fatigue, dizziness, pem, pain, etc. Then, you may notice that you have “high” symptoms that tend to appear when your not experiencing low symptoms, although some can coincide “anxiety, headaches, reaction to foods, tachycardia, high bp, feeling wired, etc.” but you see, all these symptoms, whether low or high are a result of the same sympathetic activation. Now the second part is programming. We get accustom to feeling a certain way so we begin to “feel that way” before we actually “feel that way” if that makes sense. For example, you may feel like shit when you wake up not necessarily because you slept poorly, but because you just automatically “feel like shit” because it’s a program. You may step into work and feel anxious, jittery and headachey not because your actually anxious but because your body is used to responding in that way... Before I got sick not only did I not have symptoms but life had a different “feel”, like time moved differently, events felt more vivid, energized, deeper. I think finding those feelings and training those feelings, where may be where my focus lies. I think Sarno is right about a lot of things, and you brought this up in the video, I think I’m done reflecting about past traumas and I’m going to focus on a positive now. I’ve had ups and downs on this journey, thanks for posting and helping me to never give up, we will all get there, 100 %
I really agree with this and although the emotional has been important to me on my journey it has been quieting my mind, mindfulness, and letting go of limiting beliefs that has made the most difference. For me, spending lots of time with the Three Principles understanding of the mind has been huge and for others The Lightning Process and DNRS have lead them to full recovery. Thus it is clear neuroplasticity is a big part of recovery.
thanks for your thoughts. I tend to agree or see merit in this. All the best
My CFS symptoms - particularly what you describe as the "high symptoms" - just went through the roof with covid. Back in March I read about how shortness of breath is a symptom, and started worrying that as a CFS sufferer (which some may suggest makes me immuno-compromised) I was in grave danger, despite the logical part of my brain telling me I will be OK. Next thing you know, the chronic anxiety I experienced (along with fatigue etc) included a kind of sensation of shortness of breath. Coincidence? I doubt it.
I think that understanding the root emotional traumas and where they stem from is important, but agree it may not be so much about reflecting on them endlessly. Once we understand and see that its the wiring, the programming etc that is at play, and see it for what it is. From there the journey I think is largely about dealing with negative thoughts, re-wiring the pathways by being open to new approaches and understanding at a deep level that there is organically nothing wrong with us. This includes I think avoiding Dr Google, patient forums (incl. debates within the CFS community), and even avoiding negative news or media (and most of it is negative). Its not the same as "pushing through it" and I think you and other may know what I mean. Its also more than acceptance (eg mindfulness etc)...although that can be very helpful too.
While I never found a convincing argument from the "biologically based" camp, I think that dietary and lifestyle adjustments (which is essentially the best they have come up with so far in terms of clinically significant treatment) of course help ...but these things would help anyway if it is largely or completely caused by emotions/chronic stress.
PS I found Dr. Schubiner's book and lectures helpful too.
Casa Rio dude the shortness of breath has been really bad for me lately too and I think this is also not a coincidence. I’m having a tough spirt at the moment because the gyms opened up and I also have two jobs (applied behavioral analyst and umpire) and I’m working anywhere from 8-10 or even twelve hour days and that’s with working out 5 times last week. The heaviness and brain fog the past couple days have gotten so fucking bad that I’m standing there calling pitches behind the mound (that’s what you do during covid in mass) and I’m having a panic attack virtually not being able to breath because I’m freaking out about how bad the symptoms are. And this morning I had a dream that one client cancelled a session via google meet this morning so I didn’t show up, only to realize that the session was never cancelled... on the way to work this morning I had the shortness of breath again, I watched some of these videos on the way in and I’m starting to feel a bit better... if these symptoms were caused by some sort of tissue damage, I’d be fucking dead. Period. I’m still here
~ I know that I'm late to the conversation here, but your comment really resonated with me.
Using your example of sleep ..
It doesn't seem to make any difference how well I slept, or how positive an attitude I went to bed with .. my ANS'/ Mind / Body's partnership appears to have developed its own story of what homeostasis should look like -- even when it looks like shit -- and its not about to jump out of the NeuroPathway ditch it's dug for itself.
This same stubborn mal-adaptive programing has infiltrated into many areas in my life .. for example .. I can walk ten minutes back and forth on the porch with little problem; however, if I try to walk 5 minutes out in the garden, all hell breaks loose.
I'm guessing that it's because I'd felt wretched a while ago while strolling through our innocent little garden, and now my brain associates the area with wretched feelings -- thus it is dangerous.
~Deep, murky ditch! 🥴
So glad to hear this. I reached the exact same conclusion months ago. When the nervous system gets overwhelmed, the body has to give.
Agreed. EMDR / Hypnotherapy does help to process the emotions. The way Dr Sarno describes to do it in " homework" actually produces MORE fear.
Dude,
I will be applying to doctoral programs for Clinical Psychology next fall (fingers crossed I get in). I say that because you asked about professionals in this area/field. This is something I am VERY interested in researching (presuming I get accepted) and have personally explored- much like you. I think your critique is spot on. I bought Dr. Sarnos book and read it after stumbling across a few of your videos. I came to a similar conclusion. I think that due to chronic activation of the sympathetic (fight or flight) we become hyper-sensitive to our environment and/or any sensations.
For me personally, I began viewing anything/everything as a threat because my brain was looking for something threatening. As I have begun to activate my para-sympathetic (rest and digest/relax) I am observing my body wanting to kick back into fight or flight. One of the biggest challenges is re-wiring my brain after years (but especially this past year) of feeling like “something is wrong with me; I am not in control of my symptoms; I’m not okay” etc..
One thing that stood out to me that I have fallen into is going back to childhood trauma and reliving it. I thought my symptoms were just repressed emotions. I think that due to MY trauma (speaking for myself) that initially they began as repressed emotions... meaning that I did not have the tools or understanding how to properly express them so I buried/suppressed/repressed them. Now, at 29, my brain still wants to access those neuro pathways because they are familiar. I have been trapped in the cycle of physiologically responding to trauma (activating fight or flight) even though I have processed through the emotions of that trauma MANY times through therapy. It’s like I’m caught in a glitch in the matrix. An endless cycle.
Here’s the really beautiful shift that is happening right now (thanks to your videos and divine timing-I’m a spiritual guy): I have made a promise to myself that I won’t live in fear any longer. For me, the fear of my symptoms kicked me back into the emotional cycle of fight or flight which resurfaced the trauma/s and the cycle repeats. Now, when I have symptoms of pain (and trust me I still have them) I acknowledge them, remind myself I’m safe in this moment, my life is not being threatened, and I am okay. Then I take a centering breath (para-sympathetic/rest and relax). I have stepped into a freedom that is unlike anything I have ever experienced before. The freedom is a peace (restful state; free of fear) that has been calling me and EVERY other person who has gone through this-especially if you are reading this right now. I’m excited to hear about the progression in you and in others and share mine as well. God bless 🙏🏻!!
Thank you for a beautiful comment. Yeah, eventually it gets easier to let go of fear and relax. It takes awareness and practice.
@@recoverfromcfs6707 it doesn’t mean it is going to be easy. It’s a daily reminder of “I’m safe, I’m okay, I’m not in any danger... these sensations will pass”. That is REALLY challenging when every unconscious part of me wants to revert back to what is comfortable (fear/fight/flight). You personally have been an inspiration to me. Funny how pathways cross when we are ready for them.
I will say what I know about the brain is that the most difficult part of healing is going to be the first 62/64 days. Why that number? Because that’s how long it takes your neuro-pathways to form to where your body then starts to unconsciously adjust. I’ve always heard 30 days but that’s the case for someone who is healthy, not healing. It takes a little longer for those whose bodies are healing. I’m okay with that. I can be patient.
QUESTION:
I am curious though, is this something that you experienced? Were the first couple of months (give or take) pretty challenging?
It's been a challenging decade and a half give or take ;)
Well for me it's been a steady increase in activity in the past couple of years with some minor setbacks (which in the past would have been major). In other words they were lapses, not relapses. And the reason is that I didn't get sucked into the fear, but reminded myself.
I don't know know about the 60 days thing or whatever because I'm starting from bed bound and each new increase brings new fears. I would tell people to be prepared for the marathon and not focus too much on time periods. The very focus on how long it takes is just another fearful thought/behavior. :)
Another thing that complicates the picture is that I was learning and refining my approach as I went along. And I had periods of increased doubt that slowed me down. Perhaps if I started doing everything correctly from day zero maybe the 60 days thing would make more sense.
I didn't fully recognize how pervasive my anxiety/perfectionism is. And I discovered different aspects of it as I went along. Once I started being more active and living life, I had a new set of things to work through. It's a lot to handle all at once, so I had to focus on different areas while putting other areas on maintenance so to speak.
So basically real life recovery is messy. A lot messier than neural pathway studies and such. Then there are external stressors out of your control. For example, there is this pandemic. And in general life happens.
@@recoverfromcfs6707 I appreciate the thoughtful response. I can only imagine where you are coming from. I 100% agree that it’s a process. I also feel like it’s a good reminder not to become too obsessed with setting goals but more so on the process itself. I’m certain I will experience lapses (not relapses) along my journey as well. I will gently remind myself of the promise I made (that I will not live/exist in a place of fear) and continue to work towards rest and relax.
I guess, in a way, I feel like you are saying (and I’m beginning to experience this as well) that stepping into the rest, peace and freedom brings an entirely new set of challenges that will be the hardest thing I do in life... not to say that living through a chronic state of pain and suffering isn’t hard. It’s horrific. It’s just a different type of difficult.
I do think we begin at different places along our paths. I was bed bound for a few weeks but was able to become semi-functional. The only reason I didn’t have to quit my job was because of covid and I was able to work from home. I really appreciate your perspective and it is encouraging for me to be reminded that this is a life long endeavor. Waking up everyday and remembering the promise I made to myself.
I am with you that the key emotional work is being aware in the present!!! Being aware and feeling my emotions has been really helpful in my recovery, but, for me, changing thoughts and beliefs and quieting my mind have been the things that have really brought down my nervous system. Some people do not do any emotional work and fully recovery with the Lightning Process, DNRS, etc. so obviously feeling emotions is not necessary to heal. I feel about 80-90% recovered and I am very aware of emotions that come up during the day and often do a somatic meditation daily to feel what I need to feel, but do no other emotional work that as found doing more than this (like journaling etc) really did not bring me forward.
Eveline L. Yeah I agree. I might actually go back to DNRS (I tried it last year, didn’t work for me) but I don’t think it would have worked without Sarno for me anyways. It really didn’t sink in the way it did with him, not to mention Annie Hopper is corny as hell lol. But I think the combined knowledge of Sarno, and utilizing the positive thoughts with Harper will be really helpful
I only journal if now if something happens in the present and I just need to get it out of my system so to speak. Just to express how I feel here and now. And also sometimes it helps me come up with constructive solutions as well.
But stopped journaling about the past a while go and I don't think I'm ever going back.
Eveline L. Also, so happy to hear about your recovery! Would you put that percentage in terms of what you can accomplish or how you feel or both? I would say I’m 85-90 percent functional and it’s hard to put a percentage on how I feel because each day is different and I get a range of different symptoms, unfortunately with some new ones coming on, but also with some getting better. Most of the time I feel pretty bad one way or another but I’m thankful for the level of functioning I have, I can even workout pretty intensely just with an increase in symptoms
@@6473n64m19 For me it has not been adding positive thoughts but understanding that we are always living in the feeling of our thinking and that is what gives us our experience of life (Three Principles) so that it no longer makes sense to have stressful thinking, worry, thinking about symptoms, etc. have negative thoughts about myself,etc..). Spending lots of time of with the 3Ps, mediation, mindfulness, listen to Eckart Tolle audiobooks over and over, doing lots of parasympethetic breathing (belly breathing with long exhale) throughout the day and I have really quieted my mind and this has been the biggest thing for me. That being said so many people have recovered with DNRS and The Lightening Process, and my approach or those approaches all both deal with thoughts.
@@6473n64m19 same
Oh wow this is SUCH a great video, thank you 😊 🙏🦄
what do you think of "neural retraining " programs like DNRS, Gupta? They emphasise not entertaining negative thoughts, so discourage journalling which makes you recall bad events.
I think Gupta has the right idea. The presentation/delivery doesn't resonate with me, but I think could be helpful to some people. Don't know anything about DNSR.
RecoverFromCFS DNSR is about rewiring limbic system of the brain or retraining your thoughts/mind.
Perfect!!!! Thank you so much!!!
11:23 YES. The viscious cycle. Once we think of it that way, and also understand the mind-body insights of Dr Sarno, I think that is the main thing.
I also came to this conclusion when I read Dr. Sarno's books. I don't think that the brain "creates" the symptoms as a distraction. I think the symptoms just happen as a result of the nervous system/brain stem response to internal stress. This internal stress could be caused by having high expectations of oneself, trying to be perfect, taking on too much responsibility, and most importantly, not being true to oneself (suppressing emotions, avoiding confrontation, ignoring core impulses). The conditioning is a layer on top of this that gives the symptoms a life of their own so to speak.
Nicely, and succinctly put.
great video...have u tried the lightning process
I know about the lightning process. I haven't done it. I feel it's some good techniques wrapped in a lot of marketing to charge too much money.
I did it and you are right
Absolutely, the process is helpful but easy to find similar CBT techniques for free online. I don't regret doing it but it is seemingly only part of my recovery process as I have a more emotional componant. Clearly it's the answer for some however I wish they wouldn't market it the way they do as a cure as it leads to disappointment for some. I also think they should charge a fraction of what they do!
@@recoverfromcfs6707 £600 down the drain for me on a technique I could describe in 5 minutes flat!
this was extremely helpful, thank you
Hey nice video, I also felt unsure about the explanation of the symptoms as a distraction. Your explanation makes intuitively a little more sense.
However I was thinking that humans do have a tendency to look for controlled pain when they are under a lot of stress. Think about self mutilation, or even thinks like very spicy food in a less harmful way. I guess, there could also be an unconscious wish for this which could result in symptoms. What do you think?
When I think about my own symptoms, I do feel in a weird way a little attached to them. Somewhere they do feel like they prevent me from fully feeling and being in the world, and that brings a certain kind of safety. If I were to imagine myself fully feeling and being present, a certain fear comes up. For me it's mostly at the core a fear of feeling inferior. I think it's very valuable to think about whether we are psychologically attached to our symptoms.
Anyway I do agree we shouldn't focus on finding that suppressed feeling, and start stressing out about it. Only if it were that this stress would become another distraction. But still it could be valuable to look for a feeling that we are being distracted from, not necessarily in the past from old trauma's, but in the present. For me right now I think it is the feeling of inferiority. The weird thing is that the symptoms also make me feel inferior, so they are not a perfect distraction, but rather a controlled simulation of inferiority felt from outside condemning. I wonder how this works. I guess there is always an attraction towards our fears.
edit: probably it feels weird to say that the brain creates symptoms, because it feels like it is a rational guy that thinks it's handy to create symptoms. A more intuitive explanation could be that it just feels better to deal with controlled pain that couldn't cause much danger from outside, like people making you feel inferior. And so the symptoms just come up more naturally, as in cause and effect... without seeing the brain as some autonomous architect, like you get the feeling with Sarno's explanation
I think Doctor Sarno is right only partialy. I usualy see increase of symptoms when Im under some mental discomfort, but its also fight or flight thing when Im exercising too much. Brain is very complicated and our state is result of many different things together. The hardest part for me is to be able to work mentaly, that generates disbalance and sleep disturbes :-(
Maybe a personal question, but do you feel like you’ve plateaued a bit? Is that’s why you’re making the video? If so I feel that way too it’s all good :)
Nah, i haven't plateaued. I'm continuing to progress steadily. I've actually been working (programming) a lot. Like full time, but working on my own project, not a job. Working out and everything. But like you, still have symptoms.
RecoverFromCFS awesome man I’m so happy to hear that, it’s inspiring
Fantastic video.
What about if you have sibo and brain fog
Where was your fybro in diffarant places I have intermittent ones and constant shoulders armpit s 2 years this location heal pain from rest 10 pelvic pain 26 years though git better stretching diet have hypomobility.mist folks do and Asperger's OCD before