it broke my heart back when I was a kid to see Rhinox who's once a peaceful rhino maximal transformer become a corrupt renegade Vehicon who wants both factions dead. It was a pretty cool idea though
Each of the three Vehicon Generals were the exact opposite of their original spark. Tankor was a mindless brute as opposed to the thoughtful scientist of Rhinox. Jetstorm a wisecracking sadist as opposed to the idealistic knight of silverbolt, and Thrust was cool and competent, unlike Waspinator.
@@andrewshouse9840 - yeah, but Jetstorm was changed back into Silverbolt in the animation, unlike Rhinox who died and kept being kind of evil i guess!...
@@Shadothecat - predacon rhinox?!... But he was an autobot or maximal (or whatever the name of the optimals group), and only changed because of being Tankor (or maybe because he really changed his own mind).
No, by "Predacon" Rhinox, he is making a reference to the Beast War episode where Megatron reprograms Rhinox into a Predacon. Rhinox becoming evil was foreshadowed long ago.
That was due ti his reprogram as Tankor and Megatron's ideals as he conquered Cybertron and is trying to remove his beast mode since he started the Beast Wars
Rhinox, such a calm complex of a genius character and somehow unlucky in many situations, the writers did a well job with this character, and it's end eventhough it wasn't pleasant to the fans of rhinox like me, made sense in the storyline... super sad ending of a once was the wisest and the smartest and biggest bot in the maximals party.
Rhinox turned evil willingly actually, he regained control and awareness of himself ! While Silverbot was also FREED in the same way as Rhinox, but didn't turn evil.
@@austinmorrison6953 That an in Beast Wars he turned Rhinox evil. But as result Rhinox almost took out Megatron and all of the Decepticons and almost took over. So Megatron learned that he had to dumb him down to make him obedient.
I’d take the Micheal bay designs over the new designs in this show. At least they still looked like Transformers. Man the character design in this show is hideous. The vehicons look great however
Also if I was in this show I would try to reason with him like this. Me: “Rhinox this isn’t you buddy. You were the kind of guy who stop to smell the flowers. You were a spiritual member of the team. And when Optimus was pinned by Megatron you used the Autobot ship and went kamikaze on his tin plated ass. Come on big guy remember who you truly are not this corruption of Megatron’s doing.”
You got me there. But still if Rhinox remember who he truly is and Silverbolt, well a knight in shining armor could use a rust remover. These two went a different path that totally messed them up. But at least Silverbolt got to see the ending. Say what do you think Dinobot, Tigertron, Airazor, and Depthcharge look like if they were techno organic?
@@Coyoteprime Tiger looking like a samurai. Airazor a archer Dinobot Dino legs for jumping power and sharpen claws extends out like wolverine. Depth charge Manta ray skin acts like an invisible cloak for him to be a sniper
@@Harrison0411 Same, this is honestly as bad as what was done to the Original Trio from Star Wars in the Disney Sequel Trilogy which is only made worse by the presents of the Thrawn Trilogy. I will say that Beast Machines and TDST aren't the worst of their respective series but they are still REALLY flawed.
@@ShadowSonic2make them completely different from who they were at their core, yes. It’s stupid as hell and terrible writing to do such a 180 for no valid reason. If you like Beast Machines by all means indulge this crap though.
Sadly all the vechicons look far better than the Maximal abominations. Seriously who even okayed Rattrap’s design and kept the maximals animals even in “robot” mode
I actually think this was due to toy sales. They probably thought they could only sell Optimus Prime head molds for so long before people got sick of them... Looking at Takara this feels so silly now.
@@Brucifer2 Hasbro try to sell the beast machines toys but they were overshadowed by fans imported the Japanese transformer toys overseas that time, suffice to say they did manage to sell the toys but wasn't too profitable due to fans ordering a Japanese transformer toys from Japan.
Everyone likes to say that this wasn't so bad because just like the episode dark designs, rhinox was reformatted into a bad guy, but the show debunks this. The other maximals came to the same conclusion we have where megatron must have messed with his spark, but both rhinox and optimus say that no, this is just rhinox now, with Optimus saying that Rhinox actually made his own choice, and Rhinox saying that he's not the old Rhinox because his experience as tankor made him change his mind and realized that megatron was right. I'm guessing the only reason his personality does a 180 after he rejoins the matrix is the same reason his personality changes once he gets captured and put into tankor, because the writing is just really sloppy and doesn't know how to organically make his character change.
I've heard a theory that he *did* get corrupted, but it was just slowly and thus his mind didn't realize until he was purged of it.. like people in the real world can change slowly and not notice until someone brings to their attention what they used to be like and it clicks how far they have changed
Tankor was Rhinox when Rhinox doesn't have his morals. The reprogramming, or shell program, didn't change anything, just locked those noble qualities, the Superego, away. This was clear when Silverbolt came back. His morals were too deeply ingrained in him for him to become what Rhinox did, but he has admitted how much he enjoyed being Jetstorm because it gave him freedom from his code of honor. It was no different for Rhinox, who is mind is far more logical than Silverbolt's. Being Tankor was freedom for Rhinox, a freedom from fear, logic, science and is just pure pleasure of feeling. That's what the Id of a person is: base instinct, pleasure. That's why he's convinced in how right Megatron's thinking is. It just felt better to not worry about consequences or logic, and as a result, morals. It's only when in the Matrix that he finally gets hold of himself because now nothing is holding those morals back anymore.
It's all about who could be easily manipulated. And Rhinox was. Yes, he was brainwashed in Dark Designs and proved to be more dangerous than Megatron as a predacon. But in Beast Machines, Megatron didn't brainwash Rhinox, Waspinator, and Silverbolt. Think of a PC with an OS written over the initial OS. That was the creation of Megatron's vehicons. Only difference was Rhinox came to agree with Megatron's concept of "The Organic Shall Be Eliminated." His own decision. Silverbolt would've gone down the same path and adopted being a destructive, vengeful, evil Vehicon. But, his love for Black Arachnia was his moral compass. Proof was he was ashamed at what he had done and become in her presence. If she weren't in his life, he'd join Rhinox in his crusade (or begin his own).
When you think about it... it does make sense Rhinox would turn bad. It already happened once when he got 'reprogrammed' into a Pred. And that was to the direct detriment of the entire Predacon camp, since he tried to work his way into being the head boss, and very nearly succeeded. So finding out Rhinox -- in Tankor -- wants to do the same again, but this time isn't under any influence...
@@insertcringynamehere6554 He wasn’t willingly turned evil. He was hit with a shell program that made him evil, only this time his maximal self was aware of it the entire time, and far longer than when he was reprogrammed as a pred. It left a mark on his psyche.
@@insertcringynamehere6554 I’m not entirely sure he did regain control. Yes he regained his memories, intellect, and voice, but I think he was still being influenced by the shell program. Plus since he still identified as Tankor, I think he was still Tankor with Rhinox’s intellect. This is also backed up by the fact that Optimus saw Rhinox in the Matrix back to his old self again.
They pulled Rhinox through the shell program instead of properly removing the shell program first. The result of this mingling was making him both Rhinox and Tankor, instead of only restoring Rhinox. The personalities unfortunately merged, the effect was similar by not identical to Beast Wars: Dark Designs, because now that they were merged the shell program could not simply be removed or reversed anymore. Rhinox was permanently altered. However once his spark rejoined the matrix, his true temperament returned untainted by Tankor. Silverbolt avoided this fate by being restored by Cyberton's ̶m̶a̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶i̶c̶e̶ organic core, rather than by hasty programming.
@@nyetloki He was disturbed and disrupted by what happened, but before long he started returning to his normal qualities. More of an understandable response to a traumatic event, rather than being forcibly altered into a different person. He was upset but it was SILVERBOLT being upset, not Silverbolt+Jetstorm.
An interesting theory, one I will gladly accept as my personal headcanon. Far better than to assume that any version of the Beast Wars Rhinox we saw, in any way, would willingly agree with Megatron’s philosophy and genuinely betray his comrades.
@@wasohaMy primary gripe with that Silverbolt is that they deliberately tried to imply that deep down, he felt his code of ethics was a burden, something chaining him that Megatron “freed” him from. That he _enjoyed_ not caring about being evil and doing all of this type of behavior and was on some subliminal level happy to finally stop being restrained by that pesky morality. And I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy it. Silverbolt’s Code of Ethics was never something he felt _forced_ to abide by, it was something he _wanted_ to abide by. It wasn’t some artificial set of limitations he used to fit in or something, he _wanted_ to be a hero, he _liked_ who he was. He’s part dog, loyalty and decency are practically part of his CNA. While there were times Silverbolt felt a bit annoyed with aspects of his character, he never saw them as legitimate burdens, just parts of who he was as an individual. The Silverbolt of the old show would be utterly horrified at how he allowed himself to fall so low. To his credit, this Silverbolt is also ashamed of his actions, but it feels off to me that his response to a period of utter weakness wasn’t to try and redeem himself, but to completely discard his beliefs like that, to become so _embittered._ Horror, shock, anger at himself? Yes, but…not like this. They made a character who was basically defined by his unbreakable code of ethics, who no matter how bad things got stuck to his unwavering beliefs of right and wrong, and made it so that when left with nothing but the choice to discard his decency and enjoy apathy in the face of evil or resist to the end, he _willingly_ accepted it. The theory with Rhinox actually makes it worse in some ways, because of the sheer number of implications that has for both Rhinox and Silverbolt.
@@GP.Records It's not the worst Transformers series but with all its glaring continuity and character inconsistencies, yeah, it's best to not acknowledge it.
@@hewhoshallnotbenamed5168 When New 52 came out for DC, I said 'this is just like what they did to Beast Wars!' and sure enough, Dan Didio was also BM's show runner - telling the writers not to watch BW.
People often give shit to Rhinox going bad. But here's my theory. Rattrap actually failed to fully wake Rhinox up and the personality he had was simply Tankor with more access to Rhinox's memories and intellect.
You can make all the bullshit in universe theories you want. The fact is the show suffered without the great work of that voice actor and without the great character they developed during Beast Wars. And then making his some bad guy just added salt to the wounds. It was awful story writing.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy I disagree. Well, not that the show couldn't have done with more Richard Newman, though Paul Dobson did a good job in his run as Tankor. I also disagree with any theory that tries to deny Rhinox his agency; he may not have chosen to be captured and enslaved by Megatron, but once awakened, he did indeed choose to be a Vehicon or else his final after-death scene doesn't make much sense. What I disagree with is that it was awful writing. While not the only direction they could have taken Rhinox, Beast Machines was about how hard war actually is on a person (even if that person isn't a human being) and the dangers of extremism (Megatron and Primal were wrong Season 1). I didn't care for Beast Machines when it aired, but I've become fond of it after giving it a chance. It is still seriously flawed, but even when I disliked the series I recognized that the Rhinox/Tankor story was good, only suffering because they didn't allow Rhinox to function as a third-party long enough (or better still, successfully dethrone Megatron!). Given how out there Primal was at this point, I remember more than a few of us wanting Megatron or Rhinox/Tankor to "win". XP Now... if you don't like it, you don't like it. There is a difference between "This is something I don't like!" and "This is bad storytelling!".
One of Beast Machine's most unforgivable sins was the character assassination of Rhinox, who transformed from a spiritual man into a full-blown fascist off-screen.
Here was how I interpreted Rhinox's change. When Rhinox's memories were awakened within Tankorr, he still wasn't truly Rhinox. Remember back in that Season 1 episode of Beast Wars when Megatron brainwashed him and Rhinox became an evil mastermind? Think of it like that. You have a body with Vehicon programming and influence mixed with the memories and intelligence of Rhinox, making for the character you see here. Basically, that wasn't truly Rhinox. Once freed of Tankorr fully, Rhinox's spirit seems to be in line with the BW character we knew originally. Keeping in line with that earlier BW episode, it also makes sense why Megatron would make Rhinox stupid once turned into Tankorr. He knows what Rhinox is like when he's influenced to use his abilities and brain for more evil deeds and wanted to keep him fully in check, with contingencies in place just in case Rhinox's memories were awakened.
It's a good theory. Makes you wonder why this same logic wasn't applied to Silverbolt and Waspinator. You'd think Megatron would've made a contingency plan for them in case the Maximals got through to them as well.
Everytime I see clips of this show, all the characters look radically different compared to the last clip. at one point some of them literally just look like a mess of rainbow-chrome colored limbs.
Controversial opinion: This is actually a pretty good payoff to an earlier episode of Beast Wars. Previously Megatron reprogramed Rhinox into a Predacon and the result was Rhinox coming really close to a successful coup of the Predacon forces. Now he reprograms Rhinox into a Vehicon and makes him an idiot as a final insult, only to end up once again with "Rhinox with the brakes off" thanks to Rattrap.
I think what most people take issue with is insufficient justification for Rhinox's turn in Beast Wars. H doesn't seem to struggle with any real conflict between loyalty to his friends and his own belief being inline with what Megatron is doing it just sort of feels like, "Okay, Rhinox is back and now he's a bad guy." The return of Silverbolt was handled kinda awkwardly too with a bait and switch with Thrust but at least they didn't make Silverbolt an outright bad guy on the spot and instead just kinda reluctant and aloof at first.
I watched Beast Wars when I was going through High School and I liked it I thought it was a really good series continuing from G1 but Beast Machines was just crazy
@@micah1794 Maybe he sees something that I don't. I felt like they weren't given a proper budget and certain things felt either out of place or rushed. One of my biggest gripes was Megatron all of a sudden hating his beast form considering he never alluded to having a problem with it in the past.
@@albireotheredguard1599It was because his Transmetal 2 form was causing him too much mental instability because he didn't have the power boost from G1 Megs' spark anymore
Thinking back to the whole thing, I have to say that as saddening as it is, Rhinox's characterization made things work. Unlike Jetstorm, who was originally an idealistic ____, whose whole worldview nearly shattered, and Thrust, who was used to things due to ____'s background, Tankor was a shell-program with a very complex setting that made the ostensibly nicest Maximal into an evil mastermind. In reality, that can happen to anyone. That final scene still gets me, though, as well as one more shoutout in a later episode.
Joshua d'Estoville that what i been saying for years. the shell program corrupts the spark. like it did with black arracnia. the difference is the shell program during the best wars was a prototype.
Yeah, what happened here was that instead of Rhinox coming back his personality effectively merged with Tankors so the combined being had elements of both minds.
It's the only explanation that makes sense. Rinox was likely corrupted by the Tankor shell-program. It's even said in the Transformers Universe comics that when Primal revived Rinox, he told Primal how sorry he was for his actions as Tankor.
I personaly don't think that he betrayed the maximals willingly, his talk with Primal about the techno-organic conflict seems to imply that Tankor's evil influence corrupted his mind.
@@ijustgottahotdog as long as his spark stays in a vehicon body he would remain overwhelmed by Tankor's influence (like what happened when Rattrap tried to bring him back). If he got reformatted biologically (like what Blackarachnia did when she brought back Silverbolt) then he would return to being the noble maximal he was in Beast Wars.
@@livium9149 Oh like you mean if he got reformatted in time into a gnarly new Rhino he may have changed back. Just like how Silverbolt changed back when he was reformatted?
4:40 “My spark has rejoined the Matrix. I paid the price for my misguided deeds, but it is not too late for you. Embrace the true nature of your spark.”
I think the fans would have been more open to this twist if the writing leaned a little more into the “corrupted spark” angle. It would have played right in line with the episode Dark Designs.
@@ShadowSonic2 yes I’m currently going through the show again and I will vouch that it was said. That’s why I said “leaned a little more into the corrupted spark angle.”
Interestingly it seems like the actor for Rhinox agreed for you. Bob Skir said he intended for it to be Rhinox’s own choice to go down this path when he wrote the lines, but Paul Dobson played it more as if he had gone insane from his time as Tankor
@@mrmrmadlad9167 Even the writing supported it. When Rhinox's spirit talks to Primal and says he rejoined the Matrix, he was back to normal. He had to die and be cleansed by the Matrix to be properly restored.
Personally I’d like to see the Beast Machines Vehicons in a TF Prime design. Yes, I’m aware we had Vehicons in TFP, but I’ve always wondered what TFP-style versions of Strika, Obsidian, Thrust, Jetstorm and Tankor would look like
I think one of the biggest problems is that they were decidedly more organic than mechanical - not an even mix, and somewhat at odds with the show’s themes of balance.
They could of had this but the saga should of went into them fighting the high predicus,with different ideals then Megatron that would of made a difference.
I mean he tried taking over the world and killing Optimus and Megatron at the same time. He was also dangerously smart, hacking some of Megatron's robots. If he didn't die, he wouldn't realize the errors of his ways.
The whole character development was out of place, I mean sure Rhinox was the tech head of the Maximals but he respected nature and Primal oh boy, he throws all that he believes out of the window and becomes some kind of priest because some computer told him too without questioning it. Since when Megatron had such a hard on for the technology and hatred on his Beast Mode? He liked his Dragon Mode on Beast Wars, I mean ok change the character no problem there but show us how the said character came to such conclusion.
Rhinox did not choose to be this way as Megatron reprogrammed him into a mindless drone that was an extension of his own mind. Even when they had seemly brought him back they only recovered enough of him to realise who he use to be, even then his new program corrupted his old self. His voice actor even commented that scene where he's yelling at Optimus is suppose to show the corruption of Tankor is having on Rhinox. Showing he's not really Rhinox choosing to be evil but just Tankor becoming independent. Optimus was traumatized from seeing his planet from Megatron assimilating it all into his command. Remember the oracle was something they knew about back on Cybertron as part of Vector Prime. Even then the Oracle did actually tell him about striking a balance between organic and technology, he just was horrified at what Megatron did because of Technology, he assumed the opposite was for the best not realizing he was being the same as Megatron. Something the other Maximals called him out on. Megatron had always viewed himself as superior and different to the Maximals. He could have easily have seen how he kept losign was the result of his organic side. Then again he thought himself so superior he ignored he himself was organic.
Oracledk the one thing that pisses me off is that Optimus said rhinox made the choice. Either Optimus didn't realize that rhinox was reprogrammed and in turn Optimus is an idiot, or Rhinox is now evil on his own and as a result, they ruined Rhinox's character. Either way IMO it was only done just because Rhinox is too strong of a character to bring back (that, or they did it because there was no beast machines rhinox toy, which is just as stupid.)
There the simple fact the version of Rhinox they knew was gone. He became corrupted and was no different then the time he became a Predacon and at the time they had no way of fixing it. His systems was gone and replaced by Megatron and they didn't know how it worked. They figure it out later on but he was dead. Plus look at when he dies he back to normal, showing this really wasn't his actually choice. Tankor really was no different than an evil clone, HE WAS BRAINWASHED! Tankor acts exactly like Predacon Rhinox when he "free from Megatron's control" the only difference. Hard to say a character was ruined when they had no control of their actions. It was doen to once again show how messed up Megatron was. Think about it he turned arguably Optimus' best friend into an enemy. In Megatron's mind he imagines Optimus trying to find he friend without realizing he was actually following him the whole time.
Unfortunately poor rating ls caused certain things to be cut from the series proper. Like Primal and Megatron 2 were supposed to be driven insane from their connections made to the matrix and unicron. The idea is they received those connections from spark bonding with prime and megatron 1 during beast wars. Since they weren’t true Prime and Harold their sparks were corrupted. Primal corrupted by primous morals and optimis prime’s personality. Megatron 2 corrupted by unicron’s evil and megatron 1’s hatred of organic life.
The experiment in Beastwars dark designs did to Rhinox what happened to Tim Drake in Batman Beyond return of the Joker. That is what this sounds familiar to me.
i remember watching this when first came out and learning how tankor was rhinox... yeah that was one of those huge twists and all of my childhood to leave my jaw on the floor XD. but i dont really recall much of machines... i feel like they took it off air or moved it to some other station i didnt have.. or it was just at a time slot something else i wanted to watch was on. diffidently want to binge watch wars and machines now thought just because was such a neat series
RIP Rhinox- What I don't get Is that Rhinox said “I paid the price for my misguided deeds” when he was just poisoned in his mind,He protected life on prehistoric Earth, He's a maximal and never will be a bad guy, I'm sad to see he never got reformatted.
@@ShadowSonic2 nah it's edgy writing at its finest Neither Megatron or rhinox shown any kind of hate towards their beast forms in the original show, heck theres a lot of times when megatron enjoys his beast form but then out of nowhere they apparently always hated it And rhinox now wants to conquer cybertron? After all the shit he did with the maximals to save it Rattrap now is a coward instead of a cynical guy Waspinator being there just for the giggles Cybertron being now a technoorganic planet contradicting the story of the planet stablished in G1 Nah bro, if you like it thats ok but this show is a fucking mess
@@ShadowSonic2 no it’s called a missing chapter there was no reason for BW Megatron to hate beast modes if anything he liked them and Rhinox was made this way by Megatron soo
I've never watched this series and I don't think I want to considering what I've heard. The idea of Rhinox turning bad is well bad. It's not that episode of Beast Wars where he was reprogrammed. They should retcon this in some. As far as I'm concerned the Maximals returned home to Cybertron with Megatron and that's that.
watch it! seriously watch it, its really deep and well written, if transformers was like this today it would be great. this story was very good far better than whats come out in recent years
Agent Prime if you can get past the drastic change in characters (caused by the writers being instructed not to watch beast wars to prevent continuity lockout though BM ended up being more continuity heavy than BW regardless) it's good
+Agent Prime Aside from the part about Rhinox turning bad, I'd call everything else solid. It just seemed like the Rhinox wrote him off because they couldn't really think of anything else to do with him. Then again, what exactly can you do with a character that needs no story arc?
YOURE RIGHT THIS IS AN ACTUALLY DEEP SHOW I WATCHED EVERY EPISODE ON TELEVISION BACK WHEN IT AIRED. I HAVE IT ON DVD BOXSET ALSO! REALLY DEEP AND EMOTIONAL! EXCELLENT STORY LINE AND OVERALL SETTING!
Agent Prime I agree with you. I saw bits and pieces of _BM_ when it was originally on the air, and read about it as the years went by. And I say quite honestly that I am disappointed with where they took the Beast Era after _BW._ As far as I am concerned, the Beast Era ended with a happy Waspinator forgotten on Earth and that's that.
I wish Rhinox could have got a technoganic form and become a Maximal again, It's like every turn they screwed him out of getting a new form he had a transmetal toy but it never appeared on screen.
They could have made this work if they had done it differently like when Rhinox was awakened he could have been taken over by the Tankor personality which he couldn’t fight back against because he was too mentally weak due to being inactive for so long then Tankor with Rhinox’s memories becomes brilliantly evil that would have made a lot more sense as opposed to Rhinox himself choosing to become evil
It's too bad both this and Beast Wars is getting re-hated again all because of FREAKIN' G1!... I swear the 80's era in the Western side has been giving me a headache...
Writers can say what they like, but I stand by my own theory that the problem was that the Maximals REactivated Rhinox's core consciousness but didn't DEactivate the Tankor shell program. If nothing else, look at how the two personas are 'struggling' around the spark at 2:33; that suggests to me that neither of them are quite who they were originally, but have basically become fused together into something that isn't quite either, rather than Rhinox 'defecting' of his own free will.
He did, that's why he was fully aware of Rhinox coming back and he hardwired Tankor's body so he couldn't hurt him. He explained he was using Rhinox all along.
With Rhinox they explained it: His mind and very spark had been corrupted by the Shell Program, he wasn't really "Rhinox", he was a fusion of Rhinox with Tankor's programming. It took being killed and cleansed by the Matrix to fix him. Folks just can't handle it when a good guy isn't portrayed as "perfect".
@@ShadowSonic2 I'm pretty sure the writer intended it to be that Rhinox had seen both Megatron and Optimus's sides and DECIDED to go his own way, regardless of the shell program that made him Tankor. This, in turn, shits over everything about Rhinox in Beast Wars who was a peace-loving, flower sniffing leader-type by turning him into a flora and fauna-phobe who wants to destroy anything organic, and for what?! The shock of an old friend turning rogue? It's as if the writers didn't give a damn about Beast Wars (Which itself wasn't perfect, I will admit) and just wanted to do their own shit where everyones an asshole.
@@ShadowSonic2 And on the note of Rhinoxs bullshit turn, he should have SEVERE PTSD from having his spark removed, reprogrammed, put in a body built from the corpses of fallen cybertronians, and then set loose upon his friends. Just think what that would have done to him! But no! We have to have him turn bad because the guy who ripped out his spark, put it in a body made from the corpses of people and then reprogrammed to hunt his friends was actually on to something ragarding a techonologically pure Cybertron. It's almost like the writers are changing certain aspects of the characters while ignoring more obvious factors to push their theme of Technology vs Nature.
@@Starwarp1 It was originally intended to be that, but everything right down to the acting says that he'd been corrupted by the shell program. IE, Rhinox didn't come back normally, his mind fused with Tankor. He didn't fully come back till he died and was cleansed by the Matrix
The Vehicons were the best part of this show, and the combination of revelation and betrayal demonstrated by Rhinox/Tankor is part of that. Some folks have elevated Rhinox to a weird place, so that they see his very realistic descent into "evil" and call it bad writing when it is good writing! Still, those who don't enjoy it don't enjoy it. What worries me are the folks that try to give Rhinox an excuse. Yeah, while the show was airing, it was possible that the Vehicon Shell-programming or something else was messing up Rhinox. We get to hear his conversation with Primal *after* Rhinox is dead and in full control of his faculties as a pure Spark. Rhinox warns Primal and when he does, it sounds like Rhinox is owning his actions as Tankor... much like Silverbolt, though confused the first time he was brought to the surface, later admits he was aware of what he was doing as Jetstorm and eventually came to enjoy it.
Man Rhinox ia suffering a imprisonment insanity after hes free his mind was fractured as Tankor now both personalitys are fused and became the insane Maximal Vehicon general who wants to rule Cybertron
Beast Machines was awesome because it was the sequel to Beast Wars. The only thing that was bad about Beast Machines were the non-show accurate toys. My favorite Beast Machines character of all-time was Savage/Noble. He was the only character in the series who would change from beast to beast. It makes sense because Savage/Noble was the only mutant transformer who was canon to the show. The Beast Wars Mutants toys were not related to the Beast Wars show series because the Beast Wars Mutants toys were not canon. Plus, I didn't like the idea of ruining Rhinox. Optimus Primal should have reformatted him into a Maximal techno-organic rhino. That could have worked. I can say the same thing about Thrust/Waspinator.
4:00 My last words to the G1 community after permanently becoming a Diaclone,Prime,BW,Unicron Trilogy,RID '01, and Animated fan only for the rest of my life: "Goodbye Geewunners, when we meet again? It will not be as allies..."
This is important commentary over how anyone can become corrupted if spoiled to high levels of power. Power makes some belive they can do anything. It leads to disaster and Chaus for them and for others. That is how most human dictatorships are being done and have been doing for a long long time.
it broke my heart back when I was a kid to see Rhinox who's once a peaceful rhino maximal transformer become a corrupt renegade Vehicon who wants both factions dead. It was a pretty cool idea though
Each of the three Vehicon Generals were the exact opposite of their original spark. Tankor was a mindless brute as opposed to the thoughtful scientist of Rhinox. Jetstorm a wisecracking sadist as opposed to the idealistic knight of silverbolt, and Thrust was cool and competent, unlike Waspinator.
@@andrewshouse9840 - yeah, but Jetstorm was changed back into Silverbolt in the animation, unlike Rhinox who died and kept being kind of evil i guess!...
Tankor acted more like predacon rhinox. Even had the ranting.
@@Shadothecat - predacon rhinox?!... But he was an autobot or maximal (or whatever the name of the optimals group), and only changed because of being Tankor (or maybe because he really changed his own mind).
No, by "Predacon" Rhinox, he is making a reference to the Beast War episode where Megatron reprograms Rhinox into a Predacon. Rhinox becoming evil was foreshadowed long ago.
Reminder, Rhinox was the one who defeated Megatron in Beast Wars.
Way to go Beast Machines
He who defeats the king must sit upon their throne
@@ExMedal Oooooh.
It makes sense
@@ExMedalOof!!!
That’s a good one
Theory: Rhinox started to hate nature when he saw how ugly the Maximals became
can you imagine how ugly his model would’ve been if they gave him the same treatment as the others
Good reason after seeing how the others became.
🤢
That was due ti his reprogram as Tankor and Megatron's ideals as he conquered Cybertron and is trying to remove his beast mode since he started the Beast Wars
@@jacobbreitha4299that is something I do not want to imagine
yep. terrible character design.
It's been over a decade and I'll still never forgive beast machines for killing Rhinox
I freaking hated that.
Me too but he brought in on himself
I'll never forgive them for that artstyle. Ugh.
@@totallyradwithjosie3225 I never forgive them for waspinator
Not as much as I won't forgive G1 for killing my favorite shows like Beast Wars and Armada...
What happened to rhino broke my heart, he was truly the best and most loyal maximal.
No Justice for the character. They made him into a villain.
Tankor was...Rhinox's dark side.
At least they got Silverbolt back.
I heard that Bob skier one of the writers on beast machines received death threats because of this
@@vgiannell5but they ditched his cool furor form for a goofy condor
Rhinox, such a calm complex of a genius character and somehow unlucky in many situations, the writers did a well job with this character, and it's end eventhough it wasn't pleasant to the fans of rhinox like me, made sense in the storyline... super sad ending of a once was the wisest and the smartest and biggest bot in the maximals party.
Rhinox turned evil willingly actually, he regained control and awareness of himself ! While Silverbot was also FREED in the same way as Rhinox, but didn't turn evil.
Suppose it does make sense for Megatron to turn Rhinox into an idiot to keep him in line.
@@eu29lex16 maybe it was some sort of program Megatron put in place? Maybe it messed with his head?
@@austinmorrison6953 It did. When he regained his memories he became corrupted due to the programme installed into him by Megatron.
@@austinmorrison6953 That an in Beast Wars he turned Rhinox evil. But as result Rhinox almost took out Megatron and all of the Decepticons and almost took over. So Megatron learned that he had to dumb him down to make him obedient.
those new desings gave me nightmares when i was a kid
Which is creepier, Optimus Primal's beast mode or robot mode?
MaxMOCs I think the Gorilla Mode is creepier but Blackarachnia's robot mode is more creepier and bontica too.
FINALLY. I thought I was the only one creeped out by the character design
Nothing will ever be as creepy as Transmutate.
I’d take the Micheal bay designs over the new designs in this show. At least they still looked like Transformers. Man the character design in this show is hideous. The vehicons look great however
I was introduced to Transformers from BeastWars. This show made 6yr old me flip over my playskool table
Beast wars was better mane
Prowl looks on proudly.
Sad that Rhinox was brainwashed, rinsed and dried.
the army does that to you.
This wasnt the first time rhinox was turn evil by megatron
There were hints at his blood lust in beast wars. This is just the finale of that
Am I the only one who wonders what Rhinox would look like if he was technoorganic? Like both beast and robot mode?
NO i do too. I remember they had a transmetal version of him
Also if I was in this show I would try to reason with him like this.
Me: “Rhinox this isn’t you buddy. You were the kind of guy who stop to smell the flowers. You were a spiritual member of the team. And when Optimus was pinned by Megatron you used the Autobot ship and went kamikaze on his tin plated ass. Come on big guy remember who you truly are not this corruption of Megatron’s doing.”
@@Coyoteprime Getting your soul ripped out does things to you
You got me there. But still if Rhinox remember who he truly is and Silverbolt, well a knight in shining armor could use a rust remover.
These two went a different path that totally messed them up. But at least Silverbolt got to see the ending.
Say what do you think Dinobot, Tigertron, Airazor, and Depthcharge look like if they were techno organic?
@@Coyoteprime Tiger looking like a samurai. Airazor a archer Dinobot Dino legs for jumping power and sharpen claws extends out like wolverine. Depth charge Manta ray skin acts like an invisible cloak for him to be a sniper
It's been many years and I still can't forgive what Bob Skir did to not only Rhinox, but Silverbolt, Rattrap, and everyone else.
I feel your pain....
@@Harrison0411 Same, this is honestly as bad as what was done to the Original Trio from Star Wars in the Disney Sequel Trilogy which is only made worse by the presents of the Thrawn Trilogy.
I will say that Beast Machines and TDST aren't the worst of their respective series but they are still REALLY flawed.
What, expand on them and make them more than goody-goods?
@@ShadowSonic2make them completely different from who they were at their core, yes. It’s stupid as hell and terrible writing to do such a 180 for no valid reason. If you like Beast Machines by all means indulge this crap though.
Guy was probably full of himself back then
Sadly all the vechicons look far better than the Maximal abominations. Seriously who even okayed Rattrap’s design and kept the maximals animals even in “robot” mode
Probably the same guy who made Optimus Primal a raving technophobe in Season 1.
Yeah, when you take a look at them you can understand why megatron was against beast modes.
I actually think this was due to toy sales. They probably thought they could only sell Optimus Prime head molds for so long before people got sick of them...
Looking at Takara this feels so silly now.
@@Brucifer2 Hasbro try to sell the beast machines toys but they were overshadowed by fans imported the Japanese transformer toys overseas that time, suffice to say they did manage to sell the toys but wasn't too profitable due to fans ordering a Japanese transformer toys from Japan.
For one thing their transformations actually look like transforming instead of the Maximals shapeshifting
Everyone likes to say that this wasn't so bad because just like the episode dark designs, rhinox was reformatted into a bad guy, but the show debunks this. The other maximals came to the same conclusion we have where megatron must have messed with his spark, but both rhinox and optimus say that no, this is just rhinox now, with Optimus saying that Rhinox actually made his own choice, and Rhinox saying that he's not the old Rhinox because his experience as tankor made him change his mind and realized that megatron was right. I'm guessing the only reason his personality does a 180 after he rejoins the matrix is the same reason his personality changes once he gets captured and put into tankor, because the writing is just really sloppy and doesn't know how to organically make his character change.
I've heard a theory that he *did* get corrupted, but it was just slowly and thus his mind didn't realize until he was purged of it.. like people in the real world can change slowly and not notice until someone brings to their attention what they used to be like and it clicks how far they have changed
Tankor was Rhinox when Rhinox doesn't have his morals. The reprogramming, or shell program, didn't change anything, just locked those noble qualities, the Superego, away. This was clear when Silverbolt came back. His morals were too deeply ingrained in him for him to become what Rhinox did, but he has admitted how much he enjoyed being Jetstorm because it gave him freedom from his code of honor. It was no different for Rhinox, who is mind is far more logical than Silverbolt's.
Being Tankor was freedom for Rhinox, a freedom from fear, logic, science and is just pure pleasure of feeling. That's what the Id of a person is: base instinct, pleasure. That's why he's convinced in how right Megatron's thinking is. It just felt better to not worry about consequences or logic, and as a result, morals.
It's only when in the Matrix that he finally gets hold of himself because now nothing is holding those morals back anymore.
It's all about who could be easily manipulated. And Rhinox was. Yes, he was brainwashed in Dark Designs and proved to be more dangerous than Megatron as a predacon. But in Beast Machines, Megatron didn't brainwash Rhinox, Waspinator, and Silverbolt. Think of a PC with an OS written over the initial OS. That was the creation of Megatron's vehicons. Only difference was Rhinox came to agree with Megatron's concept of "The Organic Shall Be Eliminated." His own decision.
Silverbolt would've gone down the same path and adopted being a destructive, vengeful, evil Vehicon. But, his love for Black Arachnia was his moral compass. Proof was he was ashamed at what he had done and become in her presence. If she weren't in his life, he'd join Rhinox in his crusade (or begin his own).
Damn all this was good clarity, never seen these shows but this alone has me interested.
Nah. He just fused with Tankor personality.
2:32
They even visually showed it.
When you think about it... it does make sense Rhinox would turn bad. It already happened once when he got 'reprogrammed' into a Pred. And that was to the direct detriment of the entire Predacon camp, since he tried to work his way into being the head boss, and very nearly succeeded. So finding out Rhinox -- in Tankor -- wants to do the same again, but this time isn't under any influence...
But rhinox wouldn’t willingly turn evil
@@insertcringynamehere6554 He wasn’t willingly turned evil. He was hit with a shell program that made him evil, only this time his maximal self was aware of it the entire time, and far longer than when he was reprogrammed as a pred. It left a mark on his psyche.
@@Arthus850 but rhinox wouldn’t turn evil after he regained control
@@insertcringynamehere6554 I’m not entirely sure he did regain control. Yes he regained his memories, intellect, and voice, but I think he was still being influenced by the shell program. Plus since he still identified as Tankor, I think he was still Tankor with Rhinox’s intellect. This is also backed up by the fact that Optimus saw Rhinox in the Matrix back to his old self again.
If theyd like mentioned that maybe it wouldn't have sucked so much but no he just randomly decided megatron was right and ruined his character
They pulled Rhinox through the shell program instead of properly removing the shell program first. The result of this mingling was making him both Rhinox and Tankor, instead of only restoring Rhinox. The personalities unfortunately merged, the effect was similar by not identical to Beast Wars: Dark Designs, because now that they were merged the shell program could not simply be removed or reversed anymore. Rhinox was permanently altered. However once his spark rejoined the matrix, his true temperament returned untainted by Tankor. Silverbolt avoided this fate by being restored by Cyberton's ̶m̶a̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶p̶l̶o̶t̶ ̶d̶e̶v̶i̶c̶e̶ organic core, rather than by hasty programming.
Condorbolt was very much changed from silverbolt
@@nyetloki He was disturbed and disrupted by what happened, but before long he started returning to his normal qualities. More of an understandable response to a traumatic event, rather than being forcibly altered into a different person. He was upset but it was SILVERBOLT being upset, not Silverbolt+Jetstorm.
An interesting theory, one I will gladly accept as my personal headcanon. Far better than to assume that any version of the Beast Wars Rhinox we saw, in any way, would willingly agree with Megatron’s philosophy and genuinely betray his comrades.
@@wasohaMy primary gripe with that Silverbolt is that they deliberately tried to imply that deep down, he felt his code of ethics was a burden, something chaining him that Megatron “freed” him from. That he _enjoyed_ not caring about being evil and doing all of this type of behavior and was on some subliminal level happy to finally stop being restrained by that pesky morality. And I’m sorry, but I just don’t buy it. Silverbolt’s Code of Ethics was never something he felt _forced_ to abide by, it was something he _wanted_ to abide by. It wasn’t some artificial set of limitations he used to fit in or something, he _wanted_ to be a hero, he _liked_ who he was. He’s part dog, loyalty and decency are practically part of his CNA. While there were times Silverbolt felt a bit annoyed with aspects of his character, he never saw them as legitimate burdens, just parts of who he was as an individual. The Silverbolt of the old show would be utterly horrified at how he allowed himself to fall so low. To his credit, this Silverbolt is also ashamed of his actions, but it feels off to me that his response to a period of utter weakness wasn’t to try and redeem himself, but to completely discard his beliefs like that, to become so _embittered._ Horror, shock, anger at himself? Yes, but…not like this. They made a character who was basically defined by his unbreakable code of ethics, who no matter how bad things got stuck to his unwavering beliefs of right and wrong, and made it so that when left with nothing but the choice to discard his decency and enjoy apathy in the face of evil or resist to the end, he _willingly_ accepted it. The theory with Rhinox actually makes it worse in some ways, because of the sheer number of implications that has for both Rhinox and Silverbolt.
This series felt like a trippy fever dream after beast wars
That's honestly the best summary of Beast Machines.
This show is so stupid I don’t even acknowledge it. Beast Wars all the way.
@@GP.Records It's not the worst Transformers series but with all its glaring continuity and character inconsistencies, yeah, it's best to not acknowledge it.
@@hewhoshallnotbenamed5168 When New 52 came out for DC, I said 'this is just like what they did to Beast Wars!' and sure enough, Dan Didio was also BM's show runner - telling the writers not to watch BW.
Well, if you tell your writers to ignore the original when writing a sequel, this is what you get.
People often give shit to Rhinox going bad. But here's my theory. Rattrap actually failed to fully wake Rhinox up and the personality he had was simply Tankor with more access to Rhinox's memories and intellect.
MegaManDBZX I think it's that Rhinox and Tankor fused into one being.
That kinda makes sense.
Or Rhinox just made the wrong call. Which explains Rhinox's post-death warning to Primal about not making the same mistakes he (Rhinox) had made. ;)
You can make all the bullshit in universe theories you want. The fact is the show suffered without the great work of that voice actor and without the great character they developed during Beast Wars. And then making his some bad guy just added salt to the wounds. It was awful story writing.
@@AleksandrStrizhevskiy I disagree. Well, not that the show couldn't have done with more Richard Newman, though Paul Dobson did a good job in his run as Tankor. I also disagree with any theory that tries to deny Rhinox his agency; he may not have chosen to be captured and enslaved by Megatron, but once awakened, he did indeed choose to be a Vehicon or else his final after-death scene doesn't make much sense.
What I disagree with is that it was awful writing. While not the only direction they could have taken Rhinox, Beast Machines was about how hard war actually is on a person (even if that person isn't a human being) and the dangers of extremism (Megatron and Primal were wrong Season 1). I didn't care for Beast Machines when it aired, but I've become fond of it after giving it a chance. It is still seriously flawed, but even when I disliked the series I recognized that the Rhinox/Tankor story was good, only suffering because they didn't allow Rhinox to function as a third-party long enough (or better still, successfully dethrone Megatron!). Given how out there Primal was at this point, I remember more than a few of us wanting Megatron or Rhinox/Tankor to "win". XP
Now... if you don't like it, you don't like it. There is a difference between "This is something I don't like!" and "This is bad storytelling!".
I don't understand how they turned Rhinox the gentle giant of the Maximals into a cold calculating technonazi.
Rhinox and Tankor's minds and directives fused together to create the Evil Rhinox, he didn't just turn bad.
Because Dan DiDio loves that kind of character assassination.
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache That too.
@@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache he's been getting away with it for decades, wow
It's the corrupted Rhinox from Beast Wars from dark design. He sounds like the predicon version
One of Beast Machine's most unforgivable sins was the character assassination of Rhinox, who transformed from a spiritual man into a full-blown fascist off-screen.
It's not character assassination, Rhinox's mind became blended with Tankor and it corrupted him too far to be restored
Here was how I interpreted Rhinox's change.
When Rhinox's memories were awakened within Tankorr, he still wasn't truly Rhinox. Remember back in that Season 1 episode of Beast Wars when Megatron brainwashed him and Rhinox became an evil mastermind? Think of it like that. You have a body with Vehicon programming and influence mixed with the memories and intelligence of Rhinox, making for the character you see here. Basically, that wasn't truly Rhinox. Once freed of Tankorr fully, Rhinox's spirit seems to be in line with the BW character we knew originally.
Keeping in line with that earlier BW episode, it also makes sense why Megatron would make Rhinox stupid once turned into Tankorr. He knows what Rhinox is like when he's influenced to use his abilities and brain for more evil deeds and wanted to keep him fully in check, with contingencies in place just in case Rhinox's memories were awakened.
hm interesting theory
It's a good theory. Makes you wonder why this same logic wasn't applied to Silverbolt and Waspinator. You'd think Megatron would've made a contingency plan for them in case the Maximals got through to them as well.
good question
Lets be honest Waspinator would have been cool with it, like he said when he was "awakened" he was a cool bikerbot now.
Jericho Strayker yup
Authors BETRAYED us with that. Seriously. You must not go this far chasing an idea of a wonderful twist.
0:33 damn rattrap, there is such a thing called consent -_-
damn bro you got the whole squad laughing.
Everytime I see clips of this show, all the characters look radically different compared to the last clip. at one point some of them literally just look like a mess of rainbow-chrome colored limbs.
Yeah they budget was a mess and notably the designs were not based on toys at first
3D cgi was not on the level. and while they tried to avoid some of the previous season animation horrorsm they didn't quite manage
@@serPomiz Show sucked honestly
@@madcap3450 Wait for it...
@@mechanwhal6590 Wait for what? The shows well over a decade old
I remember how much I loved beast wars when I was a kid. I treasured it. Then this abomination came about. My childhood was ended that day
Agreed i h8 it & SOMEHOW, i stomached watching it all.
Luckily for me, i hated the design so much that i never even watched it to begin with
I still have to watch it because
According to an unwritten law of transformers
😰all transformers shows must be watched at least once.
@@ECtoysOfficial But, is it okay if i skip Japanese transformers? Like scramble city, headmasters, victory
Controversial opinion: This is actually a pretty good payoff to an earlier episode of Beast Wars. Previously Megatron reprogramed Rhinox into a Predacon and the result was Rhinox coming really close to a successful coup of the Predacon forces. Now he reprograms Rhinox into a Vehicon and makes him an idiot as a final insult, only to end up once again with "Rhinox with the brakes off" thanks to Rattrap.
I think what most people take issue with is insufficient justification for Rhinox's turn in Beast Wars. H doesn't seem to struggle with any real conflict between loyalty to his friends and his own belief being inline with what Megatron is doing it just sort of feels like, "Okay, Rhinox is back and now he's a bad guy." The return of Silverbolt was handled kinda awkwardly too with a bait and switch with Thrust but at least they didn't make Silverbolt an outright bad guy on the spot and instead just kinda reluctant and aloof at first.
@@177SCmarothats how it happens in real life,i thought it was well done
I watched Beast Wars when I was going through High School and I liked it I thought it was a really good series continuing from G1 but Beast Machines was just crazy
I am so glad i somehow missed this show.
This show was so cool, I loved it!
Good on you, I really hated this series.
@@albireotheredguard1599 lol
@@micah1794 Maybe he sees something that I don't. I felt like they weren't given a proper budget and certain things felt either out of place or rushed. One of my biggest gripes was Megatron all of a sudden hating his beast form considering he never alluded to having a problem with it in the past.
@@albireotheredguard1599It was because his Transmetal 2 form was causing him too much mental instability because he didn't have the power boost from G1 Megs' spark anymore
Thinking back to the whole thing, I have to say that as saddening as it is, Rhinox's characterization made things work. Unlike Jetstorm, who was originally an idealistic ____, whose whole worldview nearly shattered, and Thrust, who was used to things due to ____'s background, Tankor was a shell-program with a very complex setting that made the ostensibly nicest Maximal into an evil mastermind. In reality, that can happen to anyone. That final scene still gets me, though, as well as one more shoutout in a later episode.
Joshua d'Estoville that what i been saying for years. the shell program corrupts the spark. like it did with black arracnia. the difference is the shell program during the best wars was a prototype.
Yeah, what happened here was that instead of Rhinox coming back his personality effectively merged with Tankors so the combined being had elements of both minds.
holy rhino
so Rhinox was corrupted by the mind programming of Tankor?
It's the only explanation that makes sense. Rinox was likely corrupted by the Tankor shell-program. It's even said in the Transformers Universe comics that when Primal revived Rinox, he told Primal how sorry he was for his actions as Tankor.
I like to pretend beast machines never happened and it ended with beast wars
Yeah same here
But the toys were good
Beast machines? what is that? i never heard that one before, somekind of cancelled transformer show?
Same.
Beast machines was the best series. It ended the entire transformer series. It was end game. Its time to grow up.
The show is actually pretty good.
Kinda wonder if the writer for that IDW comic where an alt. universe Rhinox blasted off an alt. universe Tankor was quite unhappy about this series.
I was big into the fandom at the time and This was one of the bigger moments of fan rage
So basically not only did Rhinox go insane and turn evil, he enjoys being evil. Talk about twisted
Leaving Rhinox evil was the writers mistake
But he didn't though he joined the matrix so technically he was purified in a sense of all his bad things he did.
I was so disappointed that Rhinox went corrupt and switched to the dark side..
I personaly don't think that he betrayed the maximals willingly, his talk with Primal about the techno-organic conflict seems to imply that Tankor's evil influence corrupted his mind.
@@livium9149 Oh I see like he was corrupted and he could have been scanned cleaned but it never happened?
Don't you mean switched to the darksyd
@@ijustgottahotdog as long as his spark stays in a vehicon body he would remain overwhelmed by Tankor's influence (like what happened when Rattrap tried to bring him back).
If he got reformatted biologically (like what Blackarachnia did when she brought back Silverbolt) then he would return to being the noble maximal he was in Beast Wars.
@@livium9149 Oh like you mean if he got reformatted in time into a gnarly new Rhino he may have changed back. Just like how Silverbolt changed back when he was reformatted?
4:40 “My spark has rejoined the Matrix. I paid the price for my misguided deeds, but it is not too late for you. Embrace the true nature of your spark.”
in summary, Rhinox tells monkey "Change da world. My final message. Good bye..."
Tankor looks like krekka from bionicle
TotalAnarkey hek u right
TotalAnarkey yeah maybe
Yeah he does
Who is Nidikki?
@@carloaguilar3651 An ex Toa who went rogue and got mutated into a freakish form.
that transition from the mental talk with primal to I WILL NOT BE DENIED is so smooth
This story arc was a knife in the heart. To see rhinox corrupted into this was heartbreaking. I genuinely cried at it.
This show was beyond its years. Loved watching it as a teen.
I think the fans would have been more open to this twist if the writing leaned a little more into the “corrupted spark” angle. It would have played right in line with the episode Dark Designs.
The show DID say "Wait, maybe his Spark has been corrupted?" at one point.
@@ShadowSonic2 yes I’m currently going through the show again and I will vouch that it was said. That’s why I said “leaned a little more into the corrupted spark angle.”
Interestingly it seems like the actor for Rhinox agreed for you. Bob Skir said he intended for it to be Rhinox’s own choice to go down this path when he wrote the lines, but Paul Dobson played it more as if he had gone insane from his time as Tankor
@@mrmrmadlad9167 Even the writing supported it. When Rhinox's spirit talks to Primal and says he rejoined the Matrix, he was back to normal. He had to die and be cleansed by the Matrix to be properly restored.
I'd love to see the beast wars characters in a TF Prime design
@bryan diaz varela Onyx prime right?
Animated had Waspinator and Black arachnia, it could work.
A shame we never got badass Dinobots in Prime, all we got was a green barney
@@kennethsatria6607 “Green Barney” LMAO
Personally I’d like to see the Beast Machines Vehicons in a TF Prime design.
Yes, I’m aware we had Vehicons in TFP, but I’ve always wondered what TFP-style versions of Strika, Obsidian, Thrust, Jetstorm and Tankor would look like
These clips literally show how good this show could have at least LOOKED if they just updated the style of BW.
I think one of the biggest problems is that they were decidedly more organic than mechanical - not an even mix, and somewhat at odds with the show’s themes of balance.
They could of had this but the saga should of went into them fighting the high predicus,with different ideals then Megatron that would of made a difference.
this scenc broke me all those many years ago... and still does today
If anything, Tigertron always hated having to fight, and if he was alive, it would've made more sense to me if he turned evil.
Damn, this feels like the cyber initiative from mortal kombat
As a kid this was a HUGE moment
Remember the writers weren’t allowed to watch the original series. So they didn’t rly know what they were working with.
Really? That's dumb!
Beast Machines was just plain weird. It went all mystical.
the entire series feel like a fever dream now,Miss the times when we were kids
Rhinox before beast machines: hey Hasbro when am I going to get my transmetal upgrade?
Hasbro: N O……
The “Stay Away From Me” sounded like he wanted to keep Optimus safe from him instead of the other way around.
This is the last time I'll speak of beast machines
If you are never going to speak of Beast Machines then get out of you tube and take your mean and dishonest comment's with you!
@@humangirl2122 easy there it's a jobby reference I get it
Say what you want but Beastmachines will always hold a special void in my soul that Michael Bay can't even begin to comprehend.
Vehicon with honor who keep maximal heart...rip
I mean he tried taking over the world and killing Optimus and Megatron at the same time.
He was also dangerously smart, hacking some of Megatron's robots.
If he didn't die, he wouldn't realize the errors of his ways.
What ? No he didnt do either of those things
What a fever dream this show was
Rinox became a filthy traitor and I’m still pissed about it.
The whole character development was out of place, I mean sure Rhinox was the tech head of the Maximals but he respected nature and Primal oh boy, he throws all that he believes out of the window and becomes some kind of priest because some computer told him too without questioning it.
Since when Megatron had such a hard on for the technology and hatred on his Beast Mode? He liked his Dragon Mode on Beast Wars, I mean ok change the character no problem there but show us how the said character came to such conclusion.
Rhinox did not choose to be this way as Megatron reprogrammed him into a mindless drone that was an extension of his own mind. Even when they had seemly brought him back they only recovered enough of him to realise who he use to be, even then his new program corrupted his old self. His voice actor even commented that scene where he's yelling at Optimus is suppose to show the corruption of Tankor is having on Rhinox. Showing he's not really Rhinox choosing to be evil but just Tankor becoming independent.
Optimus was traumatized from seeing his planet from Megatron assimilating it all into his command. Remember the oracle was something they knew about back on Cybertron as part of Vector Prime. Even then the Oracle did actually tell him about striking a balance between organic and technology, he just was horrified at what Megatron did because of Technology, he assumed the opposite was for the best not realizing he was being the same as Megatron. Something the other Maximals called him out on.
Megatron had always viewed himself as superior and different to the Maximals. He could have easily have seen how he kept losign was the result of his organic side. Then again he thought himself so superior he ignored he himself was organic.
Oracledk the one thing that pisses me off is that Optimus said rhinox made the choice. Either Optimus didn't realize that rhinox was reprogrammed and in turn Optimus is an idiot, or Rhinox is now evil on his own and as a result, they ruined Rhinox's character. Either way IMO it was only done just because Rhinox is too strong of a character to bring back (that, or they did it because there was no beast machines rhinox toy, which is just as stupid.)
There the simple fact the version of Rhinox they knew was gone. He became corrupted and was no different then the time he became a Predacon and at the time they had no way of fixing it. His systems was gone and replaced by Megatron and they didn't know how it worked. They figure it out later on but he was dead.
Plus look at when he dies he back to normal, showing this really wasn't his actually choice. Tankor really was no different than an evil clone, HE WAS BRAINWASHED! Tankor acts exactly like Predacon Rhinox when he "free from Megatron's control" the only difference.
Hard to say a character was ruined when they had no control of their actions. It was doen to once again show how messed up Megatron was. Think about it he turned arguably Optimus' best friend into an enemy. In Megatron's mind he imagines Optimus trying to find he friend without realizing he was actually following him the whole time.
I really enjoyed the writing and stories of Beast Wars, when I saw Beast Machines it was totally not what I loved about Beast Wars.
Unfortunately poor rating ls caused certain things to be cut from the series proper. Like Primal and Megatron 2 were supposed to be driven insane from their connections made to the matrix and unicron. The idea is they received those connections from spark bonding with prime and megatron 1 during beast wars. Since they weren’t true Prime and Harold their sparks were corrupted. Primal corrupted by primous morals and optimis prime’s personality. Megatron 2 corrupted by unicron’s evil and megatron 1’s hatred of organic life.
So if Megatron is like Hitler, then doesnt Rhinox represent Mussolini?
Devin Leber no he's Stalin
@@AwesomeMooseSmile I feel like Megatron is more like Stalin, given his iron control over everything.
This show did Rhinox dirty, but my heart breaks when Cheetor tries to reach through to his friend.
way to piss on a great character
It made sense though, his spark had been corrupted by the Tankor program. And anyways, people always have a hard time accepting a good guy going bad.
Sean Whitehall Not as bad as what they did to Silverbolt.
Sean Whitehall You would not be saying that if Rhinox and Tankor were separate entities in the show.
Sean Whitehall wait till you see what they did to silverbolt
way to do something different with a great character
Rhinox,
Our old buddy 😥
So let me get this straight, both megatron and rhinox had a hatred for there beast modes during beast wars but they never said anything about it
The joy of Rhinox
@@Gojirawars03 oh, it’s you.
Stupid writing at its finest
Oh so Rhinox and Mgeatron didn’t hate there beast modes until they got back home
The experiment in Beastwars dark designs did to Rhinox what happened to Tim Drake in Batman Beyond return of the Joker. That is what this sounds familiar to me.
RIP rhinox.
Can I just pretend Rhinox was brainwashed by Megatron and his time as Tankor?
It funny that Rhinox’s personality matched his time as a Pred during Beast Wars
If Ultra Magnus, Rhinox, Grimlock, Dinobot, Shockwave and Jetfire were a team, they would defeat everyone, including Unicron.
They did such a good job with the original beast wars designs I don’t know how they were so off with beast machines
Look how they massacred my boy
Anyone else watching Optimus like "s'up uncle Phil"
Finkel is einhorn, einhorn is finkel omg it’s a rhinox!!!
Einhorn*
@@sdc3536 lol I remixed the heck out of that, thanks
So. This really feels like how Ajani fell to Phyrexia in MTG lore when you think of it.
Imagine if Tankor had REMAINED as an evil Rhinox throughout the entire series...all the way until he was actually the last villain standing...
i remember watching this when first came out and learning how tankor was rhinox... yeah that was one of those huge twists and all of my childhood to leave my jaw on the floor XD. but i dont really recall much of machines... i feel like they took it off air or moved it to some other station i didnt have.. or it was just at a time slot something else i wanted to watch was on. diffidently want to binge watch wars and machines now thought just because was such a neat series
RIP Rhinox- What I don't get Is that Rhinox said “I paid the price for my misguided deeds” when he was just poisoned in his mind,He protected life on prehistoric Earth, He's a maximal and never will be a bad guy, I'm sad to see he never got reformatted.
Rhinox was brought back to life in The Transformers legends comic after beast machines (Which is Canon) and i'm glad Rhinox Got a Happy ending
This is what we call character development assassination.
No, it's called an intelligent plot.
@@ShadowSonic2 nah it's edgy writing at its finest
Neither Megatron or rhinox shown any kind of hate towards their beast forms in the original show, heck theres a lot of times when megatron enjoys his beast form but then out of nowhere they apparently always hated it
And rhinox now wants to conquer cybertron? After all the shit he did with the maximals to save it
Rattrap now is a coward instead of a cynical guy
Waspinator being there just for the giggles
Cybertron being now a technoorganic planet contradicting the story of the planet stablished in G1
Nah bro, if you like it thats ok but this show is a fucking mess
@@ShadowSonic2 no it’s called a missing chapter there was no reason for BW Megatron to hate beast modes if anything he liked them and Rhinox was made this way by Megatron soo
@@blacksoldier430No, it was all supported within the plot if you paid attention
@@o.8.p149He hated his beast mode due to his merge with G1 Megatron, who hated organic beings
2:58
コンボイ/マイクロン伝説 : rhinox? thank the matrix you're alive.
I've never watched this series and I don't think I want to considering what I've heard. The idea of Rhinox turning bad is well bad. It's not that episode of Beast Wars where he was reprogrammed. They should retcon this in some. As far as I'm concerned the Maximals returned home to Cybertron with Megatron and that's that.
watch it! seriously watch it, its really deep and well written, if transformers was like this today it would be great. this story was very good far better than whats come out in recent years
Agent Prime if you can get past the drastic change in characters (caused by the writers being instructed not to watch beast wars to prevent continuity lockout though BM ended up being more continuity heavy than BW regardless) it's good
+Agent Prime Aside from the part about Rhinox turning bad, I'd call everything else solid. It just seemed like the Rhinox wrote him off because they couldn't really think of anything else to do with him. Then again, what exactly can you do with a character that needs no story arc?
YOURE RIGHT THIS IS AN ACTUALLY DEEP SHOW I WATCHED EVERY EPISODE ON TELEVISION BACK WHEN IT AIRED. I HAVE IT ON DVD BOXSET ALSO! REALLY DEEP AND EMOTIONAL! EXCELLENT STORY LINE AND OVERALL SETTING!
Agent Prime
I agree with you. I saw bits and pieces of _BM_ when it was originally on the air, and read about it as the years went by. And I say quite honestly that I am disappointed with where they took the Beast Era after _BW._ As far as I am concerned, the Beast Era ended with a happy Waspinator forgotten on Earth and that's that.
When people forget that this is the Predicon personality of Rhinox that was awakened
I wish Rhinox could have got a technoganic form and become a Maximal again, It's like every turn they screwed him out of getting a new form he had a transmetal toy but it never appeared on screen.
I'd go mad if i was locked in my own body with no control too.
I can only imagine the monster I'd be if someone unlocked the cage after so many years.
They could have made this work if they had done it differently like when Rhinox was awakened he could have been taken over by the Tankor personality which he couldn’t fight back against because he was too mentally weak due to being inactive for so long then Tankor with Rhinox’s memories becomes brilliantly evil that would have made a lot more sense as opposed to Rhinox himself choosing to become evil
Beast Machines is extremely underrated. The story is so interesting and complex
Agreed
It's too bad both this and Beast Wars is getting re-hated again all because of FREAKIN' G1!...
I swear the 80's era in the Western side has been giving me a headache...
@@monster-mecha_enthusiast_2002 when has Beast Wars been hated on in recent years
Almost 1 million views but only 2 comments
It’s not even 3/4 of a million views...
I guess Coppa fucked off.
Anyway this section just got opened.
@@jayjay86443 yeah
TH-cam nukes comments when a video gets marked for kids. After it’s no longer marked as such, any old comments are deleted
Writers can say what they like, but I stand by my own theory that the problem was that the Maximals REactivated Rhinox's core consciousness but didn't DEactivate the Tankor shell program.
If nothing else, look at how the two personas are 'struggling' around the spark at 2:33; that suggests to me that neither of them are quite who they were originally, but have basically become fused together into something that isn't quite either, rather than Rhinox 'defecting' of his own free will.
i kinda felt bad for rhinox in the end. i hope he found peace in the matrix.
You would think Megatron learned his lesson last time about reprogramming Rhinox in Tankor's body with his spark
He did, that's why he was fully aware of Rhinox coming back and he hardwired Tankor's body so he couldn't hurt him. He explained he was using Rhinox all along.
I only just realised he tricked primal into finding the plasma energy chamber
Thank god for supplementary material to properly redeem Rhinox and also Transformers Legends Manga to give him a happy ending.
Its funny how much BM Rhinox and TLJ Luke Skywalker have in common in terms of utter character destruction.
With Rhinox they explained it: His mind and very spark had been corrupted by the Shell Program, he wasn't really "Rhinox", he was a fusion of Rhinox with Tankor's programming. It took being killed and cleansed by the Matrix to fix him.
Folks just can't handle it when a good guy isn't portrayed as "perfect".
@@ShadowSonic2 I'm pretty sure the writer intended it to be that Rhinox had seen both Megatron and Optimus's sides and DECIDED to go his own way, regardless of the shell program that made him Tankor. This, in turn, shits over everything about Rhinox in Beast Wars who was a peace-loving, flower sniffing leader-type by turning him into a flora and fauna-phobe who wants to destroy anything organic, and for what?! The shock of an old friend turning rogue? It's as if the writers didn't give a damn about Beast Wars (Which itself wasn't perfect, I will admit) and just wanted to do their own shit where everyones an asshole.
@@ShadowSonic2 And on the note of Rhinoxs bullshit turn, he should have SEVERE PTSD from having his spark removed, reprogrammed, put in a body built from the corpses of fallen cybertronians, and then set loose upon his friends. Just think what that would have done to him! But no! We have to have him turn bad because the guy who ripped out his spark, put it in a body made from the corpses of people and then reprogrammed to hunt his friends was actually on to something ragarding a techonologically pure Cybertron. It's almost like the writers are changing certain aspects of the characters while ignoring more obvious factors to push their theme of Technology vs Nature.
@@Starwarp1 It was originally intended to be that, but everything right down to the acting says that he'd been corrupted by the shell program.
IE, Rhinox didn't come back normally, his mind fused with Tankor. He didn't fully come back till he died and was cleansed by the Matrix
I can at least begin to comprehend this one. But TLJ… ain’t canon to me.
I don't care what anyone says, I love the Rhinox twist
God, I loved this show.
The Vehicons were the best part of this show, and the combination of revelation and betrayal demonstrated by Rhinox/Tankor is part of that. Some folks have elevated Rhinox to a weird place, so that they see his very realistic descent into "evil" and call it bad writing when it is good writing!
Still, those who don't enjoy it don't enjoy it. What worries me are the folks that try to give Rhinox an excuse. Yeah, while the show was airing, it was possible that the Vehicon Shell-programming or something else was messing up Rhinox. We get to hear his conversation with Primal *after* Rhinox is dead and in full control of his faculties as a pure Spark. Rhinox warns Primal and when he does, it sounds like Rhinox is owning his actions as Tankor... much like Silverbolt, though confused the first time he was brought to the surface, later admits he was aware of what he was doing as Jetstorm and eventually came to enjoy it.
Thank you, Anakin Skywalker, for saving Cybertron and Optimus Prime.
Man Rhinox ia suffering a imprisonment insanity after hes free his mind was fractured as Tankor now both personalitys are fused and became the insane Maximal Vehicon general who wants to rule Cybertron
Beast Machines was awesome because it was the sequel to Beast Wars. The only thing that was bad about Beast Machines were the non-show accurate toys. My favorite Beast Machines character of all-time was Savage/Noble. He was the only character in the series who would change from beast to beast. It makes sense because Savage/Noble was the only mutant transformer who was canon to the show. The Beast Wars Mutants toys were not related to the Beast Wars show series because the Beast Wars Mutants toys were not canon. Plus, I didn't like the idea of ruining Rhinox. Optimus Primal should have reformatted him into a Maximal techno-organic rhino. That could have worked. I can say the same thing about Thrust/Waspinator.
Dustin Nunn funny thing is, they actually made a beast machines waspinator, but it was called buzzsaw.
I would've liked waspinator as a maximal in beast machines especially in beast wars he said he was sick of being a predacon
Rattrap: say it ain't so
4:00
My last words to the G1 community after permanently becoming a Diaclone,Prime,BW,Unicron Trilogy,RID '01, and Animated fan only for the rest of my life:
"Goodbye Geewunners, when we meet again? It will not be as allies..."
I did really like how Cheeto’s evolved throughout bm. The one thing they did right. Showing what a leader he could become
This is important commentary over how anyone can become corrupted if spoiled to high levels of power. Power makes some belive they can do anything. It leads to disaster and Chaus for them and for others. That is how most human dictatorships are being done and have been doing for a long long time.
Ratrapp kills an old friend
Rattrap: *giggles*