Lets give him the benifit of doubt. You could vote for Vingegaard, Pogacar and MVDP on the mens side and skip the rest to highlight that those 3 were far better than the competetion.
In his defense he did state he the guy's age and the fact he was riding zone 2. 🤣 I might have mentioned his age but probably not the zone 2 thing. 🤣 No on second thought I wouldn't have said anything. In all seriousness keep up the hard work @BenjiNaesenTV
Jonas also thought that MvdP would win. He appreciated the award, and he was grateful to be the winner, but he also said that he's happy that he didn't have to vote because he believed several riders deserved it this year. It's hard to disagree with him on that.
For me, Jonas Vingegaard was 1st this season, but if Pogacar and MvdP had won then it would be perfectly understandable. For me, they were all three pretty dead even, which the points luckily reflect. I agree that the points should be weighed differently. It's insane some journalists would leave MvdP out of their top 5. Same with journalists not having Pogacar in their top 3. However, I will say that Jonas was actually out of the top 3 for two journalists which is also pretty insane. But he was definitely forgotten less than MvdP, yes.
Imo Jonas is "the rider of the year". What he showed in the tour de france was just on another level, and then he kept that level for the Vuelta. I understand a lot of cycling fans value Monuments and UCI world A LOT. But the media and the mainstream audience see Grand Tours as the greatest achievements in the sport. This prize is more subjective, while let's day the UCI rank is more objective based on points which Pogacar rightfully won.
Benji Naesen. You are the man. All your arguments are spot on. What a joke of awards.If your don't have Jonas, Mvdp and Pogi in top 3, you don't deserve being a cycling journalist. Period. Who of those 3, who should win is by far more difficult. In my opinion. 2023 The best overall rider in the world POGI. The best one day race Rider- Mvdp. The best GC rider in the world- Jonas. Not really difficult. Who should have the overall depends on preference and rating of races. 3 arguments for each of them winning. Pogi fans. Look at the versatile big races he won and throughout the calender. the best rider since Merxck in history Mvdp fans benji s argument. the best one day season in the last decade Jonas. The pure dominance in the tour 7 1/2 minutes to no 2(the new Merxck) the first to do basque, dauphine, the tour in one season and 2nd Vuelta, which he probably should have won, not given the special circumstances. difficult to choose. personally am just glad im witnessing the best cyclists and the most exiting times in road cycling since I started watching it(1985).
Well I should not be a chicken and not share my own take. If Jonas had won the Vuelta it would have been easy and I really hope that he will get the chance in 2024 because im sure he will win both with no accidents. But since he did not, here is my take on it. no 1 Mvdp. 2. Pogi. 3 Jonas. Mainly because I think that one day races should be rewarded highly in the cycling community. There is no discussion in my mind who the 2 top dogs in road cycling these last 2 years.- Pogi and Jonas. Hournable mentions this 2023. 4 roglic, what a year winning all gc races he entered except the Vuelta. 5. Remco. what a talent and a cycling machine. 6 . GC Kuss first man to do all 3 GT in one season and winning one of them in modern history of cycling.. If he had won the Vuelta on a different team and different circumstances he would have been higher on my list. Wout and Mads Pedersen should also be mentioned. Great times we live in. newcomers of the year. Felix Gall and skelmose. Ups forgot Tarling the new TT superstar of the future
Guys guys. Of course he was the best he could literally have taken the double a feat very few in history has doneI dont see how there even is a discussion. It is for sure that MVDP and Pogacar deserves a very high placement for sure they are the top 3. Second he won everything he entered excluding paris-niece which he came 3rd and Vuelta where he kind gifted it to his teammate. A TDF HAS to count for way more than the classics.
Why should it count way more? IMO You can't be the best overall cyclist in the world without starting 1 one day race. I think pogacar is clearly the best overall, he can do anything vingegaard or mvdp can, but not the other way around. The crash in Liege robbed him from another monument and from a decent TDF preparation.
@@koenverhelst5165 It has always been like this. TDF is by far the biggest race for a reason. Its tough and its were you divide the guy in the best form from the pack. Winning a 21 day race shows that you got the whole package. Jonas wins close to everything he touches, and does certainly have what it takes to win some of the classics. He won criterium de dauphine and tour of basque country this year. In complete domination. So did he at Gran Camino. Pogacar is an absolute great cyclist. But also overrated compared to Vingegaard. Everybody says he is the best. While Im not so sure this is actually the case if vingegaard trains for the races like the classics he could do it. Pogacar is the better sprinter yes. A classic is a 1 day race. Its not a 21 day race. It has to be rated way below in importance. The form of the people arriving is at the top in the tour de france. If you want to determine who is the strongest at something you give them a lot of it. Just like the worldchampionship in chess isnt decided in 1 match so TDF isnt decided in 1 day. And so endurance and all the necessary factors get into the game. Classics is more a specialists sort of game where it is far outweighed to the heavy guys but no the heaviest guys - sprinters. It is a 1 day max effort where it pays to have some muscle mass so Rolleur/Puncheur is the dominant type of rider. Its a specialist build. It falls apart when you mix it up in stage races. TDF has had a mixed bag of winners. Heavier rider in the mid 75kgs has won guys in 80 kgs has won. However that was probably enhanced by Doping. But in all you have to be overall very strong to win the TDF, in all categories. You cant fall flat on the ITT. You cant be a dork in the mountains. You cant let a breakout take too much time on the flats or in the crosswinds.
Journalist voting for Poland does not work for Eurosport for at least 4 years. He is currently under retirement and sometimes mentions in the interviews that he is not watching a lot of cycling. I loved him as a commentator, he was the best at his job, but if you choose someone who is not watching a lot of races only because you now him due to the fact he was L'Equipe employee in 80s, the system is wrong.
This is a common problem with most sporting awards. You have too many sports writers who aren't completely in touch with the sport or are somehow biased in their selection process. I think another reason for confusion is criteria. What does it mean to be the best cyclist? Best GC? Best 1-day? Best TT? All-around? Winner of the most important race? How do you weight all those factors if they are all part of the evaluation?
Nice that you made a Video These journalists really crack me up😂😂😂 I dont know the majority of them, but Orla having Phillipsen in 3rd gave me a proper headache
It's difficult to stack different types of cyclist up against each other because they target different races. Especially Vingegaard against MvdP. Vingegaard will crush MvdP in the mountains, but he will stand no chance against MvdP in classic one-day races. Pog can do both. Thats'why he's uniqe. But I have to agree with Benji here: MvdP had an unbelievable season. He deserved to win!
IMO, the biggest solution is changing the weight of the points. The other solutions also matter but it's mainly the points system that's the problem. It's baffling that MVDP, who had the most 1st place votes with 16, didn't win just because of journalists leaving him out of their top 5. The only reason Jonas won the voting is because he was consistently in like 2nd or 3rd in all of the lists along with 8 1st place votes. I think the weight of the points should be something like 10-6-4-2-1. Just make the 1st place vote actually matter the most and with quite a gap to the 2nd place vote because that's who the journalist thinks is the Velo d'Or.
I completely agree with your points about the date of the nominees and the journalist not voting for five women. My top 3 on the men's side would also be Jonas, Pogi and MvdP in whatever order. However: 1. Unless someone releases an official power ranked list of races then opinions are going to wildly vary. For instance, why does the WC RR matter more than the WC TT? If given equal weighting suddenly Remco and MvdP's seasons get closer, especially if that voter further weighted Grand Tours where MvdP was mostly anonymous. Similarly, Philipsen comes into the conversation if a voter weighs the Green Jersey/being the World's Best Sprinter heavily. 2. This voting system got the top 3 you wanted to see and there was a gap to 4th so calling it 'irrelevant' because you disagree with a few dissenting votes feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Yes, he is. He could've easily won two GTs this year. Big leads in Dauphine and the TdF. He did the time trial of the year, maybe of several years. It's much more difficult to sustain form over three weeks than it is for a one-day race. Monuments are great but they are only one day.
Yeah, some of those votes were truly inexplicable. I think those are really good suggestions actually. Putting someone in first should definitely give them more of an advantage than 1 single point, specifically also because I feel that this would incentivize the jury to think about the voting even more. Of course, it’s not that big of a deal anyway who gets that award but that‘s also because of how people don’t take it seriously. If they want people to care about it, it would help to make it less frustrating to care about
The italian journalist not even putting down five names is inexcusable. It does not matter if this journalist doesn't follow women cycling closely, if you are in this space as your source of income you will know these names. If you don't - do your job and look up their acheviements during the year. If you can't be bothered to do that, don't vote at all.
Did you made the same complaints last year, or did the result suits you better then? You mention Pog beat Vingegaard in Paris- Nice, it was 1:39, but didn't mention that Vingegaard beat Pog with 7:29 in TdF
@@Queen-be6md What was the purpose with this video then? If he agreed, why then suggest another point system. The poll is total subjective and that's fair enough.
@@peha524 Listen to the video then. Benji is not complaining about Vingegaard winning Velo d'Or but about some journalists giving absurd votes like that German guy who didn't put Pogacar in his top5 or Philippa York who didn't put MVDP in her top5 and how these votes influence the final outcome.
There's probably some weighting that could be applied so that the most 1st place votes a rider has, the more heavily his 1st place votes get averaged in, or something like that.
Tour de France is always going to count for more than anything else in a lot of people's eyes so I get Jonas winning. Like you said, I think it would be better to have a larger point spread like 7, 5, 3, 2, 1 just so that top spot takes more consideration. As for the guy who couldn't name 5 women cyclists, get him off the voting panel IMHO, there are a ton of people more informed and whose opinion I value more.
Its like the Ballon d'Or. No one cares about your season, they care if they are a fan of you. I even suspect some people wanting a certain person to win and the not giving points to whoever they consider their biggest competitor.
Benji…is it crazy to look at which rider scored the most UCI points in the year and start there with assigning weighted points depending on how many points they scored? For example, the rider with the most points scores 10/10, second is 8/10, third 7/10, fourth 6/10 and so on for the first 9 riders. This is an objective measure that no one can dispute. Then give the journalists the chance to score subjectively again out of 10 in a similar scoring fashion. Thoughts?
Agree with most of your takes. But I disagree with your take every top 3 should be Vingegaard, MVDP and Pog in some order, Roglic has won almost anything he entered. He'd be my runner-up after Vingegaard. Based on the examples you show some of these journalists rate stage races more than classics, especially Tour. So not naming MVDP is understandable from that perspective for not winning stages there. Although I think it's uninformed. And it's hard to compare a sprinter to a GC rider. So the premise of 1 best cyclist over the year is probably flawed to start with.
"Best cyclist of the year" is not a mathematical truth, it's totally subjective There were various contenders to that title, all deserving of it, and my fav won so I'm happy with the results
Honestly even of monuments are hard to win and first of all hard to finish. Winning 5 big one day races and doing nothing the rest of rhe season isn't comparable to winning multiple stage races, winning stages in them and podiuming at other races all the rest of the year. This year van der poel had a great TdF and won races after his WC title, but for me he doesnt deserve to be for sure in the top 3. If he had won stages in grand tours i would say yeah he deserves for sure to be in top 3. For the other riders remco deserves to be 5th at best and top 4 i would put pog , rog, vingo and kuss in whatever order.
I do not agree with you Benji ! MVDP won very prestigious races of course (WC, and two monuments is incredible) but that's all... he is to irregular during the season contrary to philipsen or roglic, and the most important thing: did we saw him in the TDF as a competitive rider ? This is clearly the most important race of the Calendar (the 3rd most watched event in the world !!) so I completely understand that Philipsen (4stages and green jersey) was on that top 5 and not vdp. I hope you readed me and continue your vids !
IMO, it’s logical to only list three names. There is one trophy, and I might only give points to someone deserving. Think of the men’s side where only three names matter. Nobody cares if Roglič or Evenepoel gets 4th, and I wouldn’t want to give either of them points because they should not have a shot at the win. Also, I agree that forced ranking and assigned points for those rankings is imperfect. For example, what cyclist would have deserved 80% (4 vs. 5) of the points of Merckx when he was at his peak? Nobody. Another possible solution would be to allow each journalist 15 points to allocate as they see fit. If you want 15 points for MVDP, fine. If you want 5 each for the top three, fine. Of course, that system has a different set of flaws . . .
Grand tours rightfully should have extra weighting, with the Tour being the highest. The fact that Jonas could have won Vuelta himself should skew the award even more towards him
i dont think you can do a lot more as a classic rider than mvdp did this year, its kind of like w haaland at balon d'or who won a treble and smashed a goalscoring record in the best league itw. if they dont win it now they technically cant win it at all if we are going only off of performance. that being said these are always popularity contests, but JV winning is definitely way more justifiable than messi winning LOL
@@jeppeachtonnielsen6138 sure WVA could also go for the green jersey and ignore his teams goal of winning the tour with jonas. i dont really see the argument here, if the team decides philipsen is going for green should he just do whatever he wants?
@@jeppeachtonnielsen6138 it was clear mvdp was primarily focussing on the rainbow jersey and used TDF as a warm up and your argument is dogshit. mvdp and van aert are among the best riders in the world and no domestique-work they do can change that. if you dont think theyre among the best idk what to tell you. jonas should also have just won the vuelta and attacked kuss relentlessly right? by that logic pogacar shouldve won cause jonas was also riding as a domestique and cannot be the best.
You'd always have a debate when it is a community vote trying to compare performances that are of different calibers. I don't know what metric or what races they are taking into account since that could influence the results. But for me I'd say that Remco should be above Roglic, sure Roglic "beat" Remco at one GT and podiumed another but Remco had a stellar TT year with many wins including Worlds TT and many stage wins.
For me it's 1.tadej 2.mathieu 3.jonas 4.remco 5philipsen Jonas is 3rd simply because apart from the tour there is not much else he did. Philipsen is 5th because of his dominance in the tour sprints and sprints in general. Pogacar and Mathieu are top two because of the amount of prestigious wins they had over the season. Although pogi didn't win the tour I think he was and always will be the more exciting rider between him and Jonas And remco with his time trial win and performance overall takes 4th.
Jonas was second in the Vuelta, won Basque Country, Dauphine and numerous stages throughout the year. Not sure how this counts as nothing. I would agree though that Pogi was the best cyclist this year since he combined being the second best classics rider with being the second or third best stage racer.
The women's voting is horrible but at least they created a separate women's award recently. AvV had a fucking unreal year and didn't win it when they just had one award.
Exactly, but I didn't mention it because I didn't want the video to just be a Velo d'Or roast, and more of a constructive criticism, as they technically fixed that problem you mentioned.
5-4-3-2-1 seems wrong on a number of levels. It would seem to be better to have a pool of votes, say 20 votes and they can be assigned between at most 5 riders. That would "fix" the Italian (who maybe didn't think there were more than 3 women riders worthy of winning). Also it means that if a group of riders are considered head and shoulders above everyone else then that would be more obvious. Also it could give an outlet to those who think there were 3 excellent riders in 2023 and it's too hard to separate them (also is the first rider really worth nearly twice as many points as 3rd?). It also seems strange that someone came up with this nominee list in the first place. Why not have the journalists who are voting make their selection from all registered competitors. OK you might see a (random nationality) journalist pick 5 riders of that nationality but if there are 5 riders of that nationality in the current nominations list then that could happen anyway.
He definitely isn't the best cyclist just the best GT rider this year. Despite breaking his wrist, Pogo had over 1000 UCI points more than Jonas which is totally absurd.
Vingegaard winning the Velo d'Or trophy in 2023 proves the irrelevance of the award. It should just automatically go to the winner of the Tour de France. What would it take for a non-Tour winner to win? Perhaps dominance of the the major one day races of the year (plus another WC in a non-road category)? Nope, that was MvdP. Maybe a more versatile rider who wins 2 monuments, a WC podium, 2nd in the TdF, and multiple one-week stage races? Nope, that was Pogi. You would be hard-pressed to imagine a realistic scenario that trumps victory at the TdF. Despite MvdP's amazing season I will say that Pogi's 3rd place at Worlds is the tie-breaker 😁 Pogi 1st, MvdP 2nd, Jonas 3rd, Philipsen 4th, Merckx 5th.
Maybe you should take à look at the recipients of velo d'or last 10 years... most of them never won tdf, and apart from Froome, the only 2 who did, Pogi and Jonas, got it after their 2nd win of tdf
@@annegkst8266Fair point. I hadn't considered the multiplier effect of a 2nd TdF win for Jonas. So if Jonas wins the TdF again next year then a rider could potentially win 3 monuments + a WC and 2nd at the TdF, and multiple 1 week stage races and classics - and not win the Velo d'Or. I get it now. How does this add relevance to the award...?
If you look at the data objectively I think there’s no valid argument for rating MVDP > Pogacar, unless you value the WC win so, so much higher than everything else on the calendar. You’d basically have to argue that winning WC (vs finishing 3rd) is better than 2nd at the Tour + 2 stages, winning Fleche, AGR AND winning Paris Nice. Let’s look at the results head to head: They have the same amount of monuments. MVDP was 1st at worlds where Pogi was 3rd, so an advantage to MVDP there. Moving forward from there it gets ugly for MVDP. Pogi got 2 stage wins at TDF + 2nd overall, while MVDP got no results at the Tour. Big advantage Pogi. Pogi has 2 more WT 1 day wins (big ones too) vs MVDPs 0. Advantage Pogi. Pogi won Paris Nice and Andalucia which is obviously far better than Belgium Tour. Advantage Pogi. Pogi has 17 wins vs MVDPs 6. Advantage Pogi. Finally, rankings aren’t perfect but Pogi has 3309 pcs points vs MVDPs 1709 - almost double. To those rating MVDP higher, I challenge you to design an objective ranking system where MVDP actually ends up on top. quote: www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/17fiu1q/comment/k6alhdf/?context=3
If you weight the GT more than a 1 day monument then it starts making sense. Lets be realistic to win GC of a grand tour is 21 x 1 day races, to win the TDF is the best cyclists in the world at their best levels, so it shoukd be weighted mire. And Jonas couldve won the Vuelta 2023, roglic and GC KUSS was no match
All these kind of trophees are not relevant anyway, nobody gives a damn about it, and next year nobody will know the winner of this season anymore. Then take in account the ridiculous way points are given to gain this trophee and the fact that some freelance journalists also have a voice.... Well that does say enough. 4 of those freelance reporters did not even have Pogacar, Vingegaard or van der Poel in there personal top five to just give you a example. Who the best rider was is free for debate and not important at all. Some will say Pogacar, although others will say that he did get his ass kicked for a second year in a row in the Tour and that he didn't win any Grand Tour in two and a half year time. So by definition he can never be the best. Some will say that Van der Poel should have won it, but other will contradict this by saying that he only won two races at World Tour level this season + a World Championship, while riders like Vingegaard, Roglic and Pogacar won a mulititude of that amount of World Tour races. Meaning that we will always keep those kind of discussions..... At least in cycling we are not as sick as football where we just give the Ballon d'ore to a player that is active in a competition that has zero importance in the world of football, and who became World Champion with Argentina because the FIFA decided to have a finale between the main players sponsored by Quatar. (Both Messi and Mbappe playde at PSG sponsored by Quatar, and a World Championship in Quatar. And Argentina did only reach the final because of the six or seven very convenient penalties. In a non corrupt world Argentina would not have survived the first play round.) But okay .... In cycling you could still say that Vingegaard was the best in 2023. Won the Tour, podium in the Vuelta that he could have won, and next to that he won about every race he participated in this season except Paris-Nice were he finished on the podium. Some people will argue that he did not participate in any of the classics. And that is correct. but on the other hand Evenepoel, van der Poel and Pogacar didn't win a Grand Tour. Chosing Vingegaard is at least a lot more logic than chosing Messi.
The 16 mist knowledgeable for the mens and 16mist knowledgeable for the women should vote. The italian dude should be banned. Good points Benji. Id vote Pogi, breadth of disciplines hes successful in is crazy. Both JV and mVdP see him as competition at their races - thats nuts. AND he didnt even enter TdF on proper prep owing to his mid season injury - you and Lantern Rouge forget that.
Joke of an award; when one of the greatest ever cyclists has never been recognised says it all; N1no Schurter!! Most of these 'so called' journalists are clueless - and most wouldn't know a MTB if it ran over them.
Vingo won the Tour de France by 7:30. The tour is worth ten classics. MVP's performance was amazing, but he isn't competitive as a GC rider. Pogi didn't win any grand tours, and lost the Tour by a massive amount. He was out of it in the second week.The voting shouldn't even be as close as it was. The points system doesn't reflect the realities of the sport. Vingo won the super bowl of the sport in a blowout. He is the best. If a football team is undefeated all season, and then loses the championship in a blowout, they are not the best team. It's the same in bike racing. All the other races pale in importance to the biggest race of the year. Let's get real here.
it is irrelevant by how much he lost the tour, he still came in 2nd and won more important races than Jonas throguhout the season. Surely the tour puts a bit weight into the result and the result is fine. Your comparison about the tour being worth 10 classics comes out of nowhere, winning the tour de france gives you 1300 UCI points, whilst winning 1 monument gives you 800 points, on the other hand winning a classics gives you either 400 or 500 UCI points depending on the WT classic so no, it isn't worth "10" classics.
The points should be adjusted then. Do sponsors pay $6 million dollar salaries to win Amstel Gold? The general public doesn't even know there are other races than the tour. Pogi's directors are going to adjust his spring schedule so he peaks at the tour. They think his run up was a mistake. They would gladly trade those wins for the tour. He's an awesome rider. But, he lost. Maybe he can do it next year. The races are won on the road. And he was soundly defeated in the race that matters to the riders, the teams, and the public. @@Queen-be6md
so if a TDF = 100 classics, then any rider that does not have the build of a GC rider is just a second rate cyclist? There is so much wrong with that kind of thinking.
It was 10, not 100. And, not second rate. But, not the best, either. The winner of the Tour is the best rider. And yes, biology plays a role. Some people have bigger lungs, hearts and legs. A 7' basketball player is more likely to be a good center than someone 5'10". What is wrong is your display of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. The least knowledgeable people over estimate their ability more than anyone else.@@paminafernandezcamacho920
I have decided to develop a point system that will determine the best cyclist of the season. The UCI and Procyclingstats have their systems, but they place too much value on second and third places and small races. I have decided to celebrate the races the way everyone feels. That is, that victory is the most and second place is much less. And fourth place is almost nothing. And also, stage victories do not have as much importance as the systems used give them. At the same time, the right system will simply determine the most successful one. - That is, as the riders and fans themselves feel. So the most points are earned for the Tour de France. Less for Monuments, WC and Giro and Vuelta. And less for all other races. The most for victory and significantly less for second and third place and again significantly less for fourth and other places. Only symbolically, then some points for the victory in the stage. Second place in the stage is nothing, no one cares. A simple, completely self-explanatory system. So you won't have to research who won the Tour, the Monuments and everything else in a given year and immediately see who did the most according to the coefficient.
Agreed that a case could be made for Jonas, MvdP and Pogacar, for me, the weakest of those cases would be Pogacar (I would put him 3rd). While an overall 'Cyclist of the Year' is interesting, having an award for the additionally for the Best 1-day Rider and the Best Stage Race Rider, as additional categories would allow someone to be recognized appropriately.
First this sounds like a title for ROAD cyclists. So what about dedicated track or cyclocross riders? Nothing but a desperate attempt copy the ranking system of tennis. Epic Fail👎
if this included all disciplines, it's just laughable that Puck Pieterse wasn't on the list. PFP (who won the best French award) and Fem van Empel could also have been there.
@@paminafernandezcamacho920 The ladies crossover disciplines a ton and need to be graded as such. My vote would have been. Lotte, Demi, AVV. Lotte beat up folks in track, road and Jr Men's. She raced 5 Kermesse and top 5'd four of them. I bet those teens on the podium with her framed the pictures. If Puck can keep growing she is going to be a rock star.
JV is invisible for 80% of the season. There are at least 3 other riders whose presence overwhelms JV. It's BS and only reflects lazy journalists seeing very little outside of TdF. Pog,Rog and MVDP were much more visible. So there's visible and risible.....well actually it ain't JVs fault that some journos are blind and lazy.
LMAO Jonas rode more races than MVDP, has way more race days and wins He is invisible to you because you don't watch the races where your fav doesn't appear He rode 2 fu*king GTs this year, plus other races, from February to October
@@annegkst8266 Against whom did he ride? As a rabid JV fan (apparently) you seem to have caught the disease of intolerance. I am not alone in doubting the validity of JVs selection. And Benji makes some good arguments for it also. I watched every race where JV was except Danish champs. I have a right to my view. He has no presense in the overall season ...except July.
Thats just simply not true. Jonas won races from February till September (Vuelta stages). I wouldn’t put him at number 1 but claiming he’s invisible for the entire season except July is simply objectively false.
@roberteastwood6937 lmao I say various riders are deserving of the title, when you yourself claim Jonas is undeserving, has no presence all year and bla bla bla, but I'm the one who is intolerant ??? Saying Jonas had no competition on his races appart tdf is just dismissing of the whole peloton
@@roberteastwood6937 But that's just bullshit. You cannot say you have watched every race he appears and then say he has no presence except for July. He raced in February, March, April, June, July, August and September. He has around 20 race days more than Pogacar and MvdP this year. Jonas podiumed every race he entered. He won the majority of them. He won a lot of stages too. He was consistently up against most of the top 10 at the Tour throughout the year and totally smashed them except in one single race where he had some personal issues going on - and even then he still finished 3rd. Not only did he win the Tour with 7:29 minutes, he also won the Dauphine with the biggest margin in 30 years. The Dauphine and Basque Country are the biggest 1-week stage races of the season, he won both of them too. He would have won the Vuelta, his 2nd GT of the season, if not for the fact that it meant he'd have to take the red jersey from his teammate and he didn't want to do that.
The italian journalist not even bothered to look through the nominee list to at least fake it is insane
Lets give him the benifit of doubt. You could vote for Vingegaard, Pogacar and MVDP on the mens side and skip the rest to highlight that those 3 were far better than the competetion.
Good point
I would vote for benji as the best cyclist for 2023. When you hammered that old guy in your zwift race. Legendary!!😁
😂
In his defense he did state he the guy's age and the fact he was riding zone 2. 🤣 I might have mentioned his age but probably not the zone 2 thing. 🤣 No on second thought I wouldn't have said anything. In all seriousness keep up the hard work @BenjiNaesenTV
Brian Holm: It’s harder to win a 3 week race than a 1 day race…
Not really an accurate take. Completely depends on your physiology. Vingegaard has no chance in most one-day races.
@@BenjiNaesenTV Pogacar disagrees with you in the latest Flobikes interview..
Jonas also thought that MvdP would win. He appreciated the award, and he was grateful to be the winner, but he also said that he's happy that he didn't have to vote because he believed several riders deserved it this year. It's hard to disagree with him on that.
He was being modest.
hes just being humble
For me, Jonas Vingegaard was 1st this season, but if Pogacar and MvdP had won then it would be perfectly understandable. For me, they were all three pretty dead even, which the points luckily reflect.
I agree that the points should be weighed differently. It's insane some journalists would leave MvdP out of their top 5. Same with journalists not having Pogacar in their top 3. However, I will say that Jonas was actually out of the top 3 for two journalists which is also pretty insane. But he was definitely forgotten less than MvdP, yes.
Imo Jonas is "the rider of the year". What he showed in the tour de france was just on another level, and then he kept that level for the Vuelta. I understand a lot of cycling fans value Monuments and UCI world A LOT. But the media and the mainstream audience see Grand Tours as the greatest achievements in the sport. This prize is more subjective, while let's day the UCI rank is more objective based on points which Pogacar rightfully won.
Shots fired!!! Well done Benji calling out those “professional” journalists 👍🏻
Benji Naesen. You are the man. All your arguments are spot on. What a joke of awards.If your don't have Jonas, Mvdp and Pogi in top 3, you don't deserve being a cycling journalist. Period. Who of those 3, who should win is by far more difficult. In my opinion. 2023 The best overall rider in the world POGI. The best one day race Rider- Mvdp. The best GC rider in the world- Jonas. Not really difficult. Who should have the overall depends on preference and rating of races.
3 arguments for each of them winning.
Pogi fans. Look at the versatile big races he won and throughout the calender. the best rider since Merxck in history
Mvdp fans benji s argument. the best one day season in the last decade
Jonas. The pure dominance in the tour 7 1/2 minutes to no 2(the new Merxck) the first to do basque, dauphine, the tour in one season and 2nd Vuelta, which he probably should have won, not given the special circumstances. difficult to choose. personally am just glad im witnessing the best cyclists and the most exiting times in road cycling since I started watching it(1985).
Well I should not be a chicken and not share my own take. If Jonas had won the Vuelta it would have been easy and I really hope that he will get the chance in 2024 because im sure he will win both with no accidents. But since he did not, here is my take on it.
no 1 Mvdp. 2. Pogi. 3 Jonas. Mainly because I think that one day races should be rewarded highly in the cycling community. There is no discussion in my mind who the 2 top dogs in road cycling these last 2 years.- Pogi and Jonas. Hournable mentions this 2023. 4 roglic, what a year winning all gc races he entered except the Vuelta. 5. Remco. what a talent and a cycling machine. 6 . GC Kuss first man to do all 3 GT in one season and winning one of them in modern history of cycling.. If he had won the Vuelta on a different team and different circumstances he would have been higher on my list. Wout and Mads Pedersen should also be mentioned. Great times we live in. newcomers of the year. Felix Gall and skelmose. Ups forgot Tarling the new TT superstar of the future
The italian journalist not even knowing Realini and Longo Borghini
Guys guys. Of course he was the best he could literally have taken the double a feat very few in history has doneI dont see how there even is a discussion. It is for sure that MVDP and Pogacar deserves a very high placement for sure they are the top 3. Second he won everything he entered excluding paris-niece which he came 3rd and Vuelta where he kind gifted it to his teammate. A TDF HAS to count for way more than the classics.
Why should it count way more? IMO You can't be the best overall cyclist in the world without starting 1 one day race. I think pogacar is clearly the best overall, he can do anything vingegaard or mvdp can, but not the other way around. The crash in Liege robbed him from another monument and from a decent TDF preparation.
@@koenverhelst5165 It has always been like this. TDF is by far the biggest race for a reason. Its tough and its were you divide the guy in the best form from the pack. Winning a 21 day race shows that you got the whole package.
Jonas wins close to everything he touches, and does certainly have what it takes to win some of the classics. He won criterium de dauphine and tour of basque country this year. In complete domination. So did he at Gran Camino.
Pogacar is an absolute great cyclist. But also overrated compared to Vingegaard. Everybody says he is the best. While Im not so sure this is actually the case if vingegaard trains for the races like the classics he could do it. Pogacar is the better sprinter yes.
A classic is a 1 day race. Its not a 21 day race. It has to be rated way below in importance. The form of the people arriving is at the top in the tour de france.
If you want to determine who is the strongest at something you give them a lot of it. Just like the worldchampionship in chess isnt decided in 1 match so TDF isnt decided in 1 day. And so endurance and all the necessary factors get into the game.
Classics is more a specialists sort of game where it is far outweighed to the heavy guys but no the heaviest guys - sprinters. It is a 1 day max effort where it pays to have some muscle mass so Rolleur/Puncheur is the dominant type of rider. Its a specialist build. It falls apart when you mix it up in stage races.
TDF has had a mixed bag of winners. Heavier rider in the mid 75kgs has won guys in 80 kgs has won. However that was probably enhanced by Doping. But in all you have to be overall very strong to win the TDF, in all categories. You cant fall flat on the ITT. You cant be a dork in the mountains. You cant let a breakout take too much time on the flats or in the crosswinds.
Journalist voting for Poland does not work for Eurosport for at least 4 years. He is currently under retirement and sometimes mentions in the interviews that he is not watching a lot of cycling. I loved him as a commentator, he was the best at his job, but if you choose someone who is not watching a lot of races only because you now him due to the fact he was L'Equipe employee in 80s, the system is wrong.
This is a common problem with most sporting awards. You have too many sports writers who aren't completely in touch with the sport or are somehow biased in their selection process. I think another reason for confusion is criteria. What does it mean to be the best cyclist? Best GC? Best 1-day? Best TT? All-around? Winner of the most important race? How do you weight all those factors if they are all part of the evaluation?
POGI, JV top 2 for sure.. no question.. MVDP 3rd.
Nice that you made a Video
These journalists really crack me up😂😂😂
I dont know the majority of them, but Orla having Phillipsen in 3rd gave me a proper headache
It's difficult to stack different types of cyclist up against each other because they target different races. Especially Vingegaard against MvdP. Vingegaard will crush MvdP in the mountains, but he will stand no chance against MvdP in classic one-day races. Pog can do both. Thats'why he's uniqe. But I have to agree with Benji here: MvdP had an unbelievable season. He deserved to win!
Pog, MVdP, Vinny.
That attack by Pogacar in Stage 6 of the Tour will live long in the memory. It was a thing of beauty.
IMO, the biggest solution is changing the weight of the points. The other solutions also matter but it's mainly the points system that's the problem. It's baffling that MVDP, who had the most 1st place votes with 16, didn't win just because of journalists leaving him out of their top 5. The only reason Jonas won the voting is because he was consistently in like 2nd or 3rd in all of the lists along with 8 1st place votes.
I think the weight of the points should be something like 10-6-4-2-1. Just make the 1st place vote actually matter the most and with quite a gap to the 2nd place vote because that's who the journalist thinks is the Velo d'Or.
Top class rant Benji
I completely agree with your points about the date of the nominees and the journalist not voting for five women. My top 3 on the men's side would also be Jonas, Pogi and MvdP in whatever order. However:
1. Unless someone releases an official power ranked list of races then opinions are going to wildly vary. For instance, why does the WC RR matter more than the WC TT? If given equal weighting suddenly Remco and MvdP's seasons get closer, especially if that voter further weighted Grand Tours where MvdP was mostly anonymous. Similarly, Philipsen comes into the conversation if a voter weighs the Green Jersey/being the World's Best Sprinter heavily.
2. This voting system got the top 3 you wanted to see and there was a gap to 4th so calling it 'irrelevant' because you disagree with a few dissenting votes feels like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Well said Benji!
Love your outspokenness! You tell them, Benji!
Yes, he is. He could've easily won two GTs this year. Big leads in Dauphine and the TdF. He did the time trial of the year, maybe of several years. It's much more difficult to sustain form over three weeks than it is for a one-day race. Monuments are great but they are only one day.
Cheers Benji, Ii didn't even know about this award.
16 sports casters isn't enough. You have to cover both men's and woman's to be included. And you have to wait until the end of the season,
Yeah, some of those votes were truly inexplicable. I think those are really good suggestions actually. Putting someone in first should definitely give them more of an advantage than 1 single point, specifically also because I feel that this would incentivize the jury to think about the voting even more. Of course, it’s not that big of a deal anyway who gets that award but that‘s also because of how people don’t take it seriously. If they want people to care about it, it would help to make it less frustrating to care about
Next time Angry Benji feels the need to drop an Fbomb how about "OH hamburgers." Great rant this episode.
Gilbert 2011 is also competitive with MVDP's one day season. Still, your point stands.
The italian journalist not even putting down five names is inexcusable. It does not matter if this journalist doesn't follow women cycling closely, if you are in this space as your source of income you will know these names. If you don't - do your job and look up their acheviements during the year. If you can't be bothered to do that, don't vote at all.
Did you made the same complaints last year, or did the result suits you better then? You mention Pog beat Vingegaard in Paris- Nice, it was 1:39, but didn't mention that Vingegaard beat Pog with 7:29 in TdF
He's not complaining about jonas being 1st, are you looking to create drama here out of nowhere
@@Queen-be6md What was the purpose with this video then?
If he agreed, why then suggest another point system.
The poll is total subjective and that's fair enough.
@@peha524 And pog beat jonas by 6hrs in Flanders and Lombardia. Oh wait..
@@peha524 Listen to the video then. Benji is not complaining about Vingegaard winning Velo d'Or but about some journalists giving absurd votes like that German guy who didn't put Pogacar in his top5 or Philippa York who didn't put MVDP in her top5 and how these votes influence the final outcome.
@@pedrodiogo4807 Philippa York is actually a man, born Robert Millar.
Funny how times have changed.
There's probably some weighting that could be applied so that the most 1st place votes a rider has, the more heavily his 1st place votes get averaged in, or something like that.
Benji, don’t be so polite…just speak your mind!😂. Anyway, I cant wait for the L’Equipe review of the LRCP ‘23 awards. The Empire Strikes Back? 😉
On-point rant.
Tour de France is always going to count for more than anything else in a lot of people's eyes so I get Jonas winning. Like you said, I think it would be better to have a larger point spread like 7, 5, 3, 2, 1 just so that top spot takes more consideration. As for the guy who couldn't name 5 women cyclists, get him off the voting panel IMHO, there are a ton of people more informed and whose opinion I value more.
Great summary and totally agree.
Its like the Ballon d'Or. No one cares about your season, they care if they are a fan of you. I even suspect some people wanting a certain person to win and the not giving points to whoever they consider their biggest competitor.
Benji…is it crazy to look at which rider scored the most UCI points in the year and start there with assigning weighted points depending on how many points they scored? For example, the rider with the most points scores 10/10, second is 8/10, third 7/10, fourth 6/10 and so on for the first 9 riders. This is an objective measure that no one can dispute. Then give the journalists the chance to score subjectively again out of 10 in a similar scoring fashion. Thoughts?
you tell them Benji
Not even writing down five names down for the women's award, come on 😭
tom boonen 2012 one day record is pretty insane too, however no WC
Agree with most of your takes. But I disagree with your take every top 3 should be Vingegaard, MVDP and Pog in some order, Roglic has won almost anything he entered. He'd be my runner-up after Vingegaard. Based on the examples you show some of these journalists rate stage races more than classics, especially Tour. So not naming MVDP is understandable from that perspective for not winning stages there. Although I think it's uninformed. And it's hard to compare a sprinter to a GC rider. So the premise of 1 best cyclist over the year is probably flawed to start with.
"Best cyclist of the year" is not a mathematical truth, it's totally subjective
There were various contenders to that title, all deserving of it, and my fav won so I'm happy with the results
Honestly even of monuments are hard to win and first of all hard to finish. Winning 5 big one day races and doing nothing the rest of rhe season isn't comparable to winning multiple stage races, winning stages in them and podiuming at other races all the rest of the year. This year van der poel had a great TdF and won races after his WC title, but for me he doesnt deserve to be for sure in the top 3. If he had won stages in grand tours i would say yeah he deserves for sure to be in top 3. For the other riders remco deserves to be 5th at best and top 4 i would put pog , rog, vingo and kuss in whatever order.
Good points
I do not agree with you Benji !
MVDP won very prestigious races of course (WC, and two monuments is incredible) but that's all... he is to irregular during the season contrary to philipsen or roglic, and the most important thing: did we saw him in the TDF as a competitive rider ? This is clearly the most important race of the Calendar (the 3rd most watched event in the world !!) so I completely understand that Philipsen (4stages and green jersey) was on that top 5 and not vdp.
I hope you readed me and continue your vids !
IMO, it’s logical to only list three names. There is one trophy, and I might only give points to someone deserving. Think of the men’s side where only three names matter. Nobody cares if Roglič or Evenepoel gets 4th, and I wouldn’t want to give either of them points because they should not have a shot at the win.
Also, I agree that forced ranking and assigned points for those rankings is imperfect. For example, what cyclist would have deserved 80% (4 vs. 5) of the points of Merckx when he was at his peak? Nobody. Another possible solution would be to allow each journalist 15 points to allocate as they see fit. If you want 15 points for MVDP, fine. If you want 5 each for the top three, fine. Of course, that system has a different set of flaws . . .
Grand tours rightfully should have extra weighting, with the Tour being the highest. The fact that Jonas could have won Vuelta himself should skew the award even more towards him
i dont think you can do a lot more as a classic rider than mvdp did this year, its kind of like w haaland at balon d'or who won a treble and smashed a goalscoring record in the best league itw. if they dont win it now they technically cant win it at all if we are going only off of performance. that being said these are always popularity contests, but JV winning is definitely way more justifiable than messi winning LOL
@@jeppeachtonnielsen6138 sure WVA could also go for the green jersey and ignore his teams goal of winning the tour with jonas. i dont really see the argument here, if the team decides philipsen is going for green should he just do whatever he wants?
@@jeppeachtonnielsen6138 it was clear mvdp was primarily focussing on the rainbow jersey and used TDF as a warm up and your argument is dogshit. mvdp and van aert are among the best riders in the world and no domestique-work they do can change that. if you dont think theyre among the best idk what to tell you. jonas should also have just won the vuelta and attacked kuss relentlessly right? by that logic pogacar shouldve won cause jonas was also riding as a domestique and cannot be the best.
You'd always have a debate when it is a community vote trying to compare performances that are of different calibers.
I don't know what metric or what races they are taking into account since that could influence the results. But for me I'd say that Remco should be above Roglic, sure Roglic "beat" Remco at one GT and podiumed another but Remco had a stellar TT year with many wins including Worlds TT and many stage wins.
For me it's
1.tadej
2.mathieu
3.jonas
4.remco
5philipsen
Jonas is 3rd simply because apart from the tour there is not much else he did. Philipsen is 5th because of his dominance in the tour sprints and sprints in general. Pogacar and Mathieu are top two because of the amount of prestigious wins they had over the season. Although pogi didn't win the tour I think he was and always will be the more exciting rider between him and Jonas And remco with his time trial win and performance overall takes 4th.
Jonas was second in the Vuelta, won Basque Country, Dauphine and numerous stages throughout the year. Not sure how this counts as nothing. I would agree though that Pogi was the best cyclist this year since he combined being the second best classics rider with being the second or third best stage racer.
Thats true tbh. He played a big part in kuss win
Also how is tog not on the list
Just let riders’ Palmares do the talking and people can work out for themselves who is the best, or who their favourite is. Simple.
That’s disgusting that the voter couldn’t be bothered to understand who was on the women’s side.
The women's voting is horrible but at least they created a separate women's award recently. AvV had a fucking unreal year and didn't win it when they just had one award.
Exactly, but I didn't mention it because I didn't want the video to just be a Velo d'Or roast, and more of a constructive criticism, as they technically fixed that problem you mentioned.
5-4-3-2-1 seems wrong on a number of levels. It would seem to be better to have a pool of votes, say 20 votes and they can be assigned between at most 5 riders. That would "fix" the Italian (who maybe didn't think there were more than 3 women riders worthy of winning). Also it means that if a group of riders are considered head and shoulders above everyone else then that would be more obvious. Also it could give an outlet to those who think there were 3 excellent riders in 2023 and it's too hard to separate them (also is the first rider really worth nearly twice as many points as 3rd?).
It also seems strange that someone came up with this nominee list in the first place. Why not have the journalists who are voting make their selection from all registered competitors. OK you might see a (random nationality) journalist pick 5 riders of that nationality but if there are 5 riders of that nationality in the current nominations list then that could happen anyway.
MvP no GT stage win in 2023 !!
French organisation, Jonas wins the Tour, Jonas wins the price 😶🌫️
Why would Sepp even get mention... Awkward
These awards are as meaningless as the Balon dor for football.
Of course not. He was the best Grand Tour rider, but that's only half of cycling.
Good one Benji but if you want L'equippe to listen you better do your podcast in French because they don't want to understand English.👍👋
He definitely isn't the best cyclist just the best GT rider this year. Despite breaking his wrist, Pogo had over 1000 UCI points more than Jonas which is totally absurd.
Vingegaard winning the Velo d'Or trophy in 2023 proves the irrelevance of the award. It should just automatically go to the winner of the Tour de France. What would it take for a non-Tour winner to win? Perhaps dominance of the the major one day races of the year (plus another WC in a non-road category)? Nope, that was MvdP. Maybe a more versatile rider who wins 2 monuments, a WC podium, 2nd in the TdF, and multiple one-week stage races? Nope, that was Pogi. You would be hard-pressed to imagine a realistic scenario that trumps victory at the TdF. Despite MvdP's amazing season I will say that Pogi's 3rd place at Worlds is the tie-breaker 😁 Pogi 1st, MvdP 2nd, Jonas 3rd, Philipsen 4th, Merckx 5th.
Maybe you should take à look at the recipients of velo d'or last 10 years... most of them never won tdf, and apart from Froome, the only 2 who did, Pogi and Jonas, got it after their 2nd win of tdf
@@annegkst8266Fair point. I hadn't considered the multiplier effect of a 2nd TdF win for Jonas. So if Jonas wins the TdF again next year then a rider could potentially win 3 monuments + a WC and 2nd at the TdF, and multiple 1 week stage races and classics - and not win the Velo d'Or. I get it now. How does this add relevance to the award...?
@MalcolmTroon you purposefully misinterpreted what I wrote but ok...
If they rank women, it will eventually be men on the top of the list. Trans lives matters, more than womens lives, apparently. :).
If you look at the data objectively I think there’s no valid argument for rating MVDP > Pogacar, unless you value the WC win so, so much higher than everything else on the calendar. You’d basically have to argue that winning WC (vs finishing 3rd) is better than 2nd at the Tour + 2 stages, winning Fleche, AGR AND winning Paris Nice.
Let’s look at the results head to head:
They have the same amount of monuments.
MVDP was 1st at worlds where Pogi was 3rd, so an advantage to MVDP there.
Moving forward from there it gets ugly for MVDP. Pogi got 2 stage wins at TDF + 2nd overall, while MVDP got no results at the Tour. Big advantage Pogi.
Pogi has 2 more WT 1 day wins (big ones too) vs MVDPs 0. Advantage Pogi.
Pogi won Paris Nice and Andalucia which is obviously far better than Belgium Tour. Advantage Pogi.
Pogi has 17 wins vs MVDPs 6. Advantage Pogi.
Finally, rankings aren’t perfect but Pogi has 3309 pcs points vs MVDPs 1709 - almost double.
To those rating MVDP higher, I challenge you to design an objective ranking system where MVDP actually ends up on top.
quote: www.reddit.com/r/peloton/comments/17fiu1q/comment/k6alhdf/?context=3
If you weight the GT more than a 1 day monument then it starts making sense. Lets be realistic to win GC of a grand tour is 21 x 1 day races, to win the TDF is the best cyclists in the world at their best levels, so it shoukd be weighted mire. And Jonas couldve won the Vuelta 2023, roglic and GC KUSS was no match
Depends, I'd rather win Roubaix or the world championships than the Vuelta but not the Giro or TdF.
maybe, if he could only ride his bike handless 😂
No
All these kind of trophees are not relevant anyway, nobody gives a damn about it, and next year nobody will know the winner of this season anymore. Then take in account the ridiculous way points are given to gain this trophee and the fact that some freelance journalists also have a voice.... Well that does say enough. 4 of those freelance reporters did not even have Pogacar, Vingegaard or van der Poel in there personal top five to just give you a example.
Who the best rider was is free for debate and not important at all. Some will say Pogacar, although others will say that he did get his ass kicked for a second year in a row in the Tour and that he didn't win any Grand Tour in two and a half year time. So by definition he can never be the best.
Some will say that Van der Poel should have won it, but other will contradict this by saying that he only won two races at World Tour level this season + a World Championship, while riders like Vingegaard, Roglic and Pogacar won a mulititude of that amount of World Tour races.
Meaning that we will always keep those kind of discussions.....
At least in cycling we are not as sick as football where we just give the Ballon d'ore to a player that is active in a competition that has zero importance in the world of football, and who became World Champion with Argentina because the FIFA decided to have a finale between the main players sponsored by Quatar. (Both Messi and Mbappe playde at PSG sponsored by Quatar, and a World Championship in Quatar. And Argentina did only reach the final because of the six or seven very convenient penalties. In a non corrupt world Argentina would not have survived the first play round.) But okay ....
In cycling you could still say that Vingegaard was the best in 2023. Won the Tour, podium in the Vuelta that he could have won, and next to that he won about every race he participated in this season except Paris-Nice were he finished on the podium. Some people will argue that he did not participate in any of the classics. And that is correct. but on the other hand Evenepoel, van der Poel and Pogacar didn't win a Grand Tour.
Chosing Vingegaard is at least a lot more logic than chosing Messi.
Least prestigious prize in cycling 🤣
The 16 mist knowledgeable for the mens and 16mist knowledgeable for the women should vote. The italian dude should be banned.
Good points Benji.
Id vote Pogi, breadth of disciplines hes successful in is crazy.
Both JV and mVdP see him as competition at their races - thats nuts.
AND he didnt even enter TdF on proper prep owing to his mid season injury - you and Lantern Rouge forget that.
Joke of an award; when one of the greatest ever cyclists has never been recognised says it all; N1no Schurter!! Most of these 'so called' journalists are clueless - and most wouldn't know a MTB if it ran over them.
stop having journos voting for awards
short answer, No.
Vingo won the Tour de France by 7:30. The tour is worth ten classics. MVP's performance was amazing, but he isn't competitive as a GC rider. Pogi didn't win any grand tours, and lost the Tour by a massive amount. He was out of it in the second week.The voting shouldn't even be as close as it was.
The points system doesn't reflect the realities of the sport. Vingo won the super bowl of the sport in a blowout. He is the best. If a football team is undefeated all season, and then loses the championship in a blowout, they are not the best team. It's the same in bike racing. All the other races pale in importance to the biggest race of the year. Let's get real here.
it is irrelevant by how much he lost the tour, he still came in 2nd and won more important races than Jonas throguhout the season. Surely the tour puts a bit weight into the result and the result is fine. Your comparison about the tour being worth 10 classics comes out of nowhere, winning the tour de france gives you 1300 UCI points, whilst winning 1 monument gives you 800 points, on the other hand winning a classics gives you either 400 or 500 UCI points depending on the WT classic so no, it isn't worth "10" classics.
The points should be adjusted then. Do sponsors pay $6 million dollar salaries to win Amstel Gold? The general public doesn't even know there are other races than the tour. Pogi's directors are going to adjust his spring schedule so he peaks at the tour. They think his run up was a mistake. They would gladly trade those wins for the tour. He's an awesome rider. But, he lost. Maybe he can do it next year. The races are won on the road. And he was soundly defeated in the race that matters to the riders, the teams, and the public. @@Queen-be6md
so if a TDF = 100 classics, then any rider that does not have the build of a GC rider is just a second rate cyclist? There is so much wrong with that kind of thinking.
It was 10, not 100. And, not second rate. But, not the best, either. The winner of the Tour is the best rider.
And yes, biology plays a role. Some people have bigger lungs, hearts and legs. A 7' basketball player is more likely to be a good center than someone 5'10".
What is wrong is your display of the Dunning-Kruger Effect. The least knowledgeable people over estimate their ability more than anyone else.@@paminafernandezcamacho920
Its funny because i think the rides them selfs don't even care about these bs ratings
I have decided to develop a point system that will determine the best cyclist of the season. The UCI and Procyclingstats have their systems, but they place too much value on second and third places and small races. I have decided to celebrate the races the way everyone feels. That is, that victory is the most and second place is much less. And fourth place is almost nothing. And also, stage victories do not have as much importance as the systems used give them. At the same time, the right system will simply determine the most successful one. - That is, as the riders and fans themselves feel. So the most points are earned for the Tour de France. Less for Monuments, WC and Giro and Vuelta. And less for all other races. The most for victory and significantly less for second and third place and again significantly less for fourth and other places. Only symbolically, then some points for the victory in the stage. Second place in the stage is nothing, no one cares. A simple, completely self-explanatory system. So you won't have to research who won the Tour, the Monuments and everything else in a given year and immediately see who did the most according to the coefficient.
So basically, winning the tour counts. the other 11 months of the year are not important?
Agreed that a case could be made for Jonas, MvdP and Pogacar, for me, the weakest of those cases would be Pogacar (I would put him 3rd). While an overall 'Cyclist of the Year' is interesting, having an award for the additionally for the Best 1-day Rider and the Best Stage Race Rider, as additional categories would allow someone to be recognized appropriately.
😊vingegaard and Roglic aren’t in the top three in my opinion.
If you close both your eyes and one of your ears with which you only listen to TJV+LR propaganda, yeah for sure
On PEDs Jonas is the best for sure!
First this sounds like a title for ROAD cyclists. So what about dedicated track or cyclocross riders? Nothing but a desperate attempt copy the ranking system of tennis. Epic Fail👎
Last year, Harrie Lavreysen finished 7th. Cyclists that solely do other disciplines never win because the jury are mostly road cycling journalists.
What about MTB-ers?? These journalists need to open their eyes and watch other disciplines.....
Honestly, there should just be different trophies for different disciplines or it should be very clear it is meant to be about 1 discipline.@@Andy_ATB
if this included all disciplines, it's just laughable that Puck Pieterse wasn't on the list. PFP (who won the best French award) and Fem van Empel could also have been there.
@@paminafernandezcamacho920 The ladies crossover disciplines a ton and need to be graded as such. My vote would have been. Lotte, Demi, AVV. Lotte beat up folks in track, road and Jr Men's. She raced 5 Kermesse and top 5'd four of them. I bet those teens on the podium with her framed the pictures. If Puck can keep growing she is going to be a rock star.
Benji for UCI president!! And chair of the United Nations and president of the World Bank....
Yep dumb award
JV is invisible for 80% of the season. There are at least 3 other riders whose presence overwhelms JV. It's BS and only reflects lazy journalists seeing very little outside of TdF. Pog,Rog and MVDP were much more visible. So there's visible and risible.....well actually it ain't JVs fault that some journos are blind and lazy.
LMAO Jonas rode more races than MVDP, has way more race days and wins
He is invisible to you because you don't watch the races where your fav doesn't appear
He rode 2 fu*king GTs this year, plus other races, from February to October
@@annegkst8266 Against whom did he ride? As a rabid JV fan (apparently) you seem to have caught the disease of intolerance. I am not alone in doubting the validity of JVs selection. And Benji makes some good arguments for it also. I watched every race where JV was except Danish champs. I have a right to my view. He has no presense in the overall season ...except July.
Thats just simply not true. Jonas won races from February till September (Vuelta stages). I wouldn’t put him at number 1 but claiming he’s invisible for the entire season except July is simply objectively false.
@roberteastwood6937 lmao I say various riders are deserving of the title, when you yourself claim Jonas is undeserving, has no presence all year and bla bla bla, but I'm the one who is intolerant ??? Saying Jonas had no competition on his races appart tdf is just dismissing of the whole peloton
@@roberteastwood6937 But that's just bullshit. You cannot say you have watched every race he appears and then say he has no presence except for July. He raced in February, March, April, June, July, August and September. He has around 20 race days more than Pogacar and MvdP this year.
Jonas podiumed every race he entered. He won the majority of them. He won a lot of stages too. He was consistently up against most of the top 10 at the Tour throughout the year and totally smashed them except in one single race where he had some personal issues going on - and even then he still finished 3rd.
Not only did he win the Tour with 7:29 minutes, he also won the Dauphine with the biggest margin in 30 years. The Dauphine and Basque Country are the biggest 1-week stage races of the season, he won both of them too. He would have won the Vuelta, his 2nd GT of the season, if not for the fact that it meant he'd have to take the red jersey from his teammate and he didn't want to do that.