This game, vanilla or modded, literally hates anything above 16 inch. 16 inch (16.0-16.9) seems to be the sweet spot between reload, accuracy and damage. The second you go 17 or higher you handicap your BB as the game 100% penalizes you. Feels like it’s always been that way too.
Yeah, that about tracks for the "Super-Battleships" being designed in the early to mid 1940s before wartime shipbuilding pressures kicked in and carriers showed that a plane can reach longer than a shell.
I'm running a campain, with the Improvement Project, as Germany. In 1909 (or somewhere around), I built a Nelson-like dreadnought, which turned out to be so good they're still in service in 1960, having gone through no less than 6 refits. They're not the best ships in my fleet but I've decided that, in lore, they're some sort of a symbol and a good luck charm for my navy.
This is the reason I prefer “fast”battleships. My “Nelsons” often find themselves in a 1v1 against enemy BBs since no other gun can sink the enemy, and I’m out of torps(blame AI tokyo drift), and I don’t use cheese incendiary spam.
A couple of videos ago, you asked what could be the next campaign. How about an American 2.0 campaign with the limitations of the Washington Naval Treaty, but start in 1900. Just a thought.
i also made a 1950 british battleship, it has 5 quad 20.9 inch mounts, 1 at the front, 1 behind on a barbette behind it, 2 turrets behind the barbette on either side of the deck hms dreadnought style and 1 in the back, but i went for range instead of accuracy so it technically has 104.8 km ap range but it can't hit anything, it consistently loses to my 1934 off brand bismarck, funny enough the generated name it gave it was nelson and since i like to name ships after people i named it the HMS Nelson Sexton (after the creator of Unturned), and i call her nessy
You had nearly 50% accuracy reduction from damage right after that first long-range penetrating hit. But at 2.5 km, your accuracy was 100% and still all shells were missing. I have a very deep suspicion that the mod is messing things up, I've noticed such irregularities several times.
I play world of warships legends, 305 can do massive damage to broad side battleships. At about 10km. Is this replicated in this game? I want to make “machine gun battleships” as I would call it lol. Inspired off the Italian Cavour Battleship.
Imagine a modern one with VLS tubes in back . Look at al that space you can cram with missiles, add some CWIS and more anti ship missiles this this would be a Lordly BEAST!!! But...."there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ship today,"
Hey, i would argue that a massive ship like that would have more liabilities (maintenance of all weapon systems, building exclusive shells, other costs) than any real advantages, sure it would need a lot missiles for it to sink,but a carefully planned submarine attack would destroy this(atleast incapacitate) this behemoth. For such a large ship could be tracked very easily both by radar and sonar, infact even ground based cruise missile systems would be able to maim this ship, from afar. Big guns can do a lot of damage, but in the age of missiles all you need are (1) bunch of cruise missiles, (2) a few ballistic weapon systems, which can easily outrange those big guns
@@plasmabulb You're right. But but if it was a one-off, kind of like how the Missouri was brought back to life during the Gulf war for fire support those 20 inch guns can do a lot of boom boom to the baddies. 20-in guns don't have a point in modern warfare. But one lobbing 20 in shells at your enemy while you're protected in a battle group from all your said attackers. You can't intercept 20-in shells with anti-missile weapons. Whoever is on the receiving end is going to have a very very very bad day. Also if I'm not mistaken there are rocket assisted shells. That can extend the range even further. Granted any cruise missile greatly out range these guns but like I said you can't shoot down these shells but you shoot down Cruise missiles
@@cesarespinozaspain Not going to lie, I would like to see that. There is something about old, modernized battleships that is fascinating. And if you can delete entire mountain ranges with a barrage of the main guns thats even more impressive. But the biggest liability would be that if there is only one battleship, you will need to produce ammunition just for this single vessel. Which will make cost "explode". Kind of the same problem that the Zumwalt class was facing with their guns.
@@Gentleman...Driver I like your thinking but you're right it's kind of like when they brought the Missouri back for the Gulf war but I'm sure they had a stockpile of shells for those cannons. The point is if you're out there actively using these things the way they're meant to be used something has gone very very wrong in the world and somehow making 20 in shells well the government would make it work
@@cesarespinozaspain Yes, they had the stockpile for the 16 inch guns back then. To my understanding they would need to at least refurbish the ammunition if they want to use them today (if they have any left in stockpile). At least all four Iowa class battleships are still in a seaworthy status, so you could bring them all back. And if you had to, you could make new ammunition for all four of them, which would be cheaper. You are right. I am a pacifist. But somehow military equipment is fascinating to me. Hopefully we never have to use such things. That said: The battleship might return in Sourth Korea. But instead of guns, it would be covered in vertical launch tubes for missiles. There are studies if an arsenal ship would make sense for them.
Sheesh these turrets are so immensely heavy my spoiled mind of a tournament-level balance modder can no longer bear seeing that in this here DIP mod. And these are relatively light British turrets, too, not Soviet turrets here!
Also, no wonder you partial-penned that mid-belt at 15:35 because that ship has ~18" outer belt, ~13" effective 1st inner belt, ~26" effective 2nd inner belt (which is actually illegal and over the max of what 1st layer allows 2nd one to be!), resulting in well above 50".
i would have made the forward belt much thicker because considering the angle you were sailing at most of the time, the forward belt was taking the brunt of the hits and suffering the most damage.
ithink when you hit the mid ship you also need to count the citadel armor, so for your shell to count as penetrated, you need to pierce the armor belt, and the citadel belt too,if you only pen the outer belt it will count as partial pen, that german BB have 18.5" outer belt + 6,7 inner cit belt + 6,6 second inner cit belt so in total you need to pen about 30" of armor to count as penetration☠, well i think thats how it works 14:40
More evidence that the 20in guns aren't worth it. Too heavy, too slow, and too much money in a campaign. Usually my "main line" battleships in the 1940's are running 16in guns of some sort and 1-4 (depending on country and budget) 18in superheavy "siege" ships. The siege ships are there just for tonnage and power projection as the 16in Main Line battleships generally out perform them in battle. You have to give up a lot for those big guns with not a lot given in return other than the occasional big number damage hit. I think it was your USA campaign with the Riker Class BB that showed this issue with the super heavy guns. I think in the 4 or 5 battles the Riker was in, it manage 1 big hit and that was it. THe rest of the fleet was carrying the battles. Also, for 18in and bigger guns, I tend to just do Super Heavy Standard shells. Plenty of penetration particularly for plunging shots (my preferred method for 15in and bigger), good damage, and better ricochet angles than the ballistic capped shells.
High-mark 18 inchers and up can still be useful though especially if the AI gives its BBs uniform 22 inch+ belts and tiny guns, which does happen quite frequently late game from what I've seen.
Actually its the engines that drive the cost of a ship in Dreadnoughts the most. 30 knot battleship where >80% of the cost of the ship is the engine? Pfft, yeah right.
Saying the ai does wierd things... Britain. Battlecruiser. 44 knots. Yeah. That was a thing. Good news? German 12.5 inch guns hammered that thing like it was nothing. Their Cruisers were harder to sink.
I believe UAD hates all guns over 16" in matter of accuracy, and there is no tech that helps with that; the only thing one can do is use them as quads in A B X setup or A X and fill up with smaller calibres (like A Y - main battery; B X on barbettes - secondary battery)
Hi Stealth. I know this has nothing to do with this game but I noticed that on Steam there is a follow up version of ICBM in development with proper ground war assets. I was just wondering if in the future could you maybe do a video on it?
Hey stealth. Has the state of the game improved a good amount? Been thinking of getting this game for me and my brother, so we can face each others boats lol when we were kids we used to pretend we had our own nations and we would “go to war” on Starwars Battlefront 2 (PS2) and Super Smash Bros Brawl (Wii). We would claim and take certain maps, and track casualties. We even made custom maps as forts in Smash bros.
Wouldn't say a good amount. Last year they've added some hulls and supposedly improved some AI but I haven't noticed. You can definitely play it with your brother by sharing designs. Should give you quite a bit of fun for your bucks
Thats what happens when you have stubby barrels...your accuracy goes to crap because the multiplier is crap. Also probably some modifiers on your handling/accuracy. Switching ammo types killed your aim as the HE shells have a much higher trajectory.
They even left space for a heli deck. Very forward thinking.
When you were at very close range you still had the ship on HE only 😉 (for the first battle)
Ah crap
@@Stealth17Gaming happens to all of us 😂
This game, vanilla or modded, literally hates anything above 16 inch. 16 inch (16.0-16.9) seems to be the sweet spot between reload, accuracy and damage. The second you go 17 or higher you handicap your BB as the game 100% penalizes you. Feels like it’s always been that way too.
Yeah, that about tracks for the "Super-Battleships" being designed in the early to mid 1940s before wartime shipbuilding pressures kicked in and carriers showed that a plane can reach longer than a shell.
looks like you had the cross eyed gunners from a previous video sneak on board that first Nelson
I'm running a campain, with the Improvement Project, as Germany. In 1909 (or somewhere around), I built a Nelson-like dreadnought, which turned out to be so good they're still in service in 1960, having gone through no less than 6 refits. They're not the best ships in my fleet but I've decided that, in lore, they're some sort of a symbol and a good luck charm for my navy.
They used to call me 20-inch Nelson in high school
This is the reason I prefer “fast”battleships. My “Nelsons” often find themselves in a 1v1 against enemy BBs since no other gun can sink the enemy, and I’m out of torps(blame AI tokyo drift), and I don’t use cheese incendiary spam.
A couple of videos ago, you asked what could be the next campaign. How about an American 2.0 campaign with the limitations of the Washington Naval Treaty, but start in 1900. Just a thought.
i also made a 1950 british battleship, it has 5 quad 20.9 inch mounts, 1 at the front, 1 behind on a barbette behind it, 2 turrets behind the barbette on either side of the deck hms dreadnought style and 1 in the back, but i went for range instead of accuracy so it technically has 104.8 km ap range but it can't hit anything, it consistently loses to my 1934 off brand bismarck, funny enough the generated name it gave it was nelson and since i like to name ships after people i named it the HMS Nelson Sexton (after the creator of Unturned), and i call her nessy
You had nearly 50% accuracy reduction from damage right after that first long-range penetrating hit. But at 2.5 km, your accuracy was 100% and still all shells were missing. I have a very deep suspicion that the mod is messing things up, I've noticed such irregularities several times.
this is why i never use 20 inch in my campaigns
I play world of warships legends, 305 can do massive damage to broad side battleships. At about 10km. Is this replicated in this game? I want to make “machine gun battleships” as I would call it lol. Inspired off the Italian Cavour Battleship.
If you want to use 20" guns you *have* to use a better engine than the Diesel Engine. The hp/ton value drives the engine weight the most.
Imagine a modern one with VLS tubes in back . Look at al that space you can cram with missiles, add some CWIS and more anti ship missiles this this would be a Lordly BEAST!!!
But...."there seems to be something wrong with our bloody ship today,"
Hey, i would argue that a massive ship like that would have more liabilities (maintenance of all weapon systems, building exclusive shells, other costs) than any real advantages, sure it would need a lot missiles for it to sink,but a carefully planned submarine attack would destroy this(atleast incapacitate) this behemoth. For such a large ship could be tracked very easily both by radar and sonar, infact even ground based cruise missile systems would be able to maim this ship, from afar.
Big guns can do a lot of damage, but in the age of missiles all you need are (1) bunch of cruise missiles, (2) a few ballistic weapon systems, which can easily outrange those big guns
@@plasmabulb You're right. But but if it was a one-off, kind of like how the Missouri was brought back to life during the Gulf war for fire support those 20 inch guns can do a lot of boom boom to the baddies. 20-in guns don't have a point in modern warfare. But one lobbing 20 in shells at your enemy while you're protected in a battle group from all your said attackers. You can't intercept 20-in shells with anti-missile weapons.
Whoever is on the receiving end is going to have a very very very bad day. Also if I'm not mistaken there are rocket assisted shells. That can extend the range even further.
Granted any cruise missile greatly out range these guns but like I said you can't shoot down these shells but you shoot down Cruise missiles
@@cesarespinozaspain Not going to lie, I would like to see that. There is something about old, modernized battleships that is fascinating. And if you can delete entire mountain ranges with a barrage of the main guns thats even more impressive. But the biggest liability would be that if there is only one battleship, you will need to produce ammunition just for this single vessel. Which will make cost "explode". Kind of the same problem that the Zumwalt class was facing with their guns.
@@Gentleman...Driver I like your thinking but you're right it's kind of like when they brought the Missouri back for the Gulf war but I'm sure they had a stockpile of shells for those cannons.
The point is if you're out there actively using these things the way they're meant to be used something has gone very very wrong in the world and somehow making 20 in shells well the government would make it work
@@cesarespinozaspain Yes, they had the stockpile for the 16 inch guns back then. To my understanding they would need to at least refurbish the ammunition if they want to use them today (if they have any left in stockpile). At least all four Iowa class battleships are still in a seaworthy status, so you could bring them all back. And if you had to, you could make new ammunition for all four of them, which would be cheaper.
You are right. I am a pacifist. But somehow military equipment is fascinating to me. Hopefully we never have to use such things.
That said: The battleship might return in Sourth Korea. But instead of guns, it would be covered in vertical launch tubes for missiles. There are studies if an arsenal ship would make sense for them.
Sheesh these turrets are so immensely heavy my spoiled mind of a tournament-level balance modder can no longer bear seeing that in this here DIP mod. And these are relatively light British turrets, too, not Soviet turrets here!
Also, no wonder you partial-penned that mid-belt at 15:35 because that ship has ~18" outer belt, ~13" effective 1st inner belt, ~26" effective 2nd inner belt (which is actually illegal and over the max of what 1st layer allows 2nd one to be!), resulting in well above 50".
To be fair, a ship like that would never be fighting without an escort so there shouldn't be anyone orbiting you :)
i would have made the forward belt much thicker because considering the angle you were sailing at most of the time, the forward belt was taking the brunt of the hits and suffering the most damage.
ithink when you hit the mid ship you also need to count the citadel armor, so for your shell to count as penetrated, you need to pierce the armor belt, and the citadel belt too,if you only pen the outer belt it will count as partial pen, that german BB have 18.5" outer belt + 6,7 inner cit belt + 6,6 second inner cit belt so in total you need to pen about 30" of armor to count as penetration☠, well i think thats how it works 14:40
More evidence that the 20in guns aren't worth it. Too heavy, too slow, and too much money in a campaign. Usually my "main line" battleships in the 1940's are running 16in guns of some sort and 1-4 (depending on country and budget) 18in superheavy "siege" ships. The siege ships are there just for tonnage and power projection as the 16in Main Line battleships generally out perform them in battle. You have to give up a lot for those big guns with not a lot given in return other than the occasional big number damage hit. I think it was your USA campaign with the Riker Class BB that showed this issue with the super heavy guns. I think in the 4 or 5 battles the Riker was in, it manage 1 big hit and that was it. THe rest of the fleet was carrying the battles. Also, for 18in and bigger guns, I tend to just do Super Heavy Standard shells. Plenty of penetration particularly for plunging shots (my preferred method for 15in and bigger), good damage, and better ricochet angles than the ballistic capped shells.
High-mark 18 inchers and up can still be useful though especially if the AI gives its BBs uniform 22 inch+ belts and tiny guns, which does happen quite frequently late game from what I've seen.
Actually its the engines that drive the cost of a ship in Dreadnoughts the most. 30 knot battleship where >80% of the cost of the ship is the engine? Pfft, yeah right.
Saying the ai does wierd things...
Britain. Battlecruiser. 44 knots. Yeah. That was a thing. Good news? German 12.5 inch guns hammered that thing like it was nothing. Their Cruisers were harder to sink.
stealth maybe the game forgets the range when you change the amunion your shooting from AP to HE and has to find the range again
you could have fit missile launchers on the back or a helicopter pad on this ship if it was the 1950s
Put a torpedo launcher and an 8" gun on the stern. That'll stop the death spiral at the end.
I believe UAD hates all guns over 16" in matter of accuracy, and there is no tech that helps with that; the only thing one can do is use them as quads in A B X setup or A X and fill up with smaller calibres (like A Y - main battery; B X on barbettes - secondary battery)
Hi Stealth. I know this has nothing to do with this game but I noticed that on Steam there is a follow up version of ICBM in development with proper ground war assets. I was just wondering if in the future could you maybe do a video on it?
Yes I'm eagerly awaiting its arrival!
The Revenge of the Nel-Rods!
Hey stealth. Has the state of the game improved a good amount? Been thinking of getting this game for me and my brother, so we can face each others boats lol when we were kids we used to pretend we had our own nations and we would “go to war” on Starwars Battlefront 2 (PS2) and Super Smash Bros Brawl (Wii). We would claim and take certain maps, and track casualties. We even made custom maps as forts in Smash bros.
Wouldn't say a good amount. Last year they've added some hulls and supposedly improved some AI but I haven't noticed. You can definitely play it with your brother by sharing designs. Should give you quite a bit of fun for your bucks
You need to balance your ships. The aft or rear weight offset should be Zero to 0.1%
Thats what happens when you have stubby barrels...your accuracy goes to crap because the multiplier is crap. Also probably some modifiers on your handling/accuracy. Switching ammo types killed your aim as the HE shells have a much higher trajectory.
Luv it
Game is broken you hit something that close with a 20 inch shell be like butter touching lava
These 20 inch guns seem really bad
Useless design. Take a Battle Cruiser and fit in 7 48cm and 4 35 guns with 50km range. Try it 🤣👍
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