I love how coddling CEOs so much has led to this instead of taking criticism to improve their product they instead say "teaacherrrr the consumers are bullying me"
Modern Buisness Practice rewards Higher ups who make bad decisions and are able to fire workers instead of getting punished, and even get a raise due to mass firing and tax write offs from failiures. This leads to a work ethic where bad leaders have no way of getting punished or fired.
Celebrity and Money worship has led up to this point "They make money so they must be good" "They're famous so they must be good" It's all controlled and manufactured
Shoutouts to Avi Arad for completely ignoring the criticism for his Sony Spiderman movies and potentially ruining the Zelda movie that he's in charge of
As somebody who's special interest is Zelda, it's gonna blow our expectations out of the water... For how shit it's gonna be. Expecting to see 'Nintendo Seal of Quality' memes all over Twitter when it comes out.
the worst part is aside from madam web you could make a interesting film based off of Kraven and Morbius because they have enough personal drama from their years of history to make a interesting film but you have to be REALLY smart with how you write them which isn't being practiced with those films. For reference Punisher was a spiderman villain at his inception.
I think the problem (apart from crap writing and production) is theses characters simply don’t work without the Marvel universe, not just Spidey himself. Kraven would’ve been awesome in the Black Panther films and the Spider-Girls from Madame Web could easily show up in the Daredevil street-level stuff. Without any kind of connective tissue, it’s just dull slop.
People tend to forget how much stuff in comics are spun off from other stuff in comics and wind up beloved pillars in their own right. My personal favorite: Wolverine was originally conceived of as a Hulk antagonist. They just rolled him into the Xmen because why not.
@The5lacker I genuinely didn't know that about wolverine but that makes him so much funnier in context. "We need a good antagonist for the Hulk, someone who can keep up with the strongest man alive. I know! Pissed off indestructible manlet with metal claws" I love comics lmao
Yeah, Moon Knight first appeared in Werewolf by Night, but he’s had nothing to do with for a long time. Character can work divorced from their OG appearances, but there needs to be substance to them.
It should be he tries to punch her and she catches his fist he says "Erm, What the Frag?" Then she punches him. there has to be a reason for him to say it.
@wil2560 well I was thinking he thinks he's blasted her to a pulp or something but when the smoke clears she's like waving him over to give his best shot. Your idea is good too. Either would suffice.
Madame Webb is a tragedy about two characters who have seen Madame Webb in advance, and whose conflicting attempts to make sure Madame Webb doesn't happen wind up causing it.
@@miguelnewmexico8641 Isn't it the opposite for shills and CEOs? You have to try very very hard to convince people that words don't have any kind of implication or meaning, that way you can hopefully trick them into believing whatever you want against their better judgement.
I think the amazing thing is that SONY actually weren't legally barred from using Spider-Man in their films, and as a result had every opportunity to introduce a live action Miles Morales, yet choose not to. So not only is this spiteful rights hoarding from Disney, its being that incompetent in working with what you have.
Sony is paying for their hubris. They had the opportunity to buy the entire Marvel franchise outright but just choose Spider-Man believing the other characters were worthless. Now they’re laughing stock desperately clutching the character like a kid in a supermarket
I finally watched Kraven last night and it’s crazy how little happened in that movie. Even with a 2 hour runtime it just felt like scenes just happened with no rhyme or reason. I loved it.
I think the most reasonable explanation for the pepsi can stuff is probably because while they were obligated to do those shots, the actress probably refused or sabotaged the placement. And no one in production cared or was sufficiently competent to ensure they actually did the advertisement properly.
The thing about New Coke is how much genuinely well thought out work and effort went into it. There was so much testing and surveys and ad buildup and it was all driven by a CEO actually going "we are losing market share, maybe we should try something new", which is the right thing to do! And it all fell apart because they didn't understand the fundamental reason Coke was popular, which was its unchanging nature. until they made it out of corn syrup instead of sugar and ruined it
That, and they also took old coke off the market to replace it with New Coke. They made a massive shift without caring about whether anyone wanted to go back or not.
@@redgunnit That's a good point. If they offered it as a new option instead of a total replacement they probably could've gotten away with it, but I imagine that's quite a bit more difficult in terms of mass manufacturing. Granted, making syrups for soda I imagine uses mostly the same machinery no matter the formula. I imagine the difficulty would be on the packaging side.
He showed up in Nosferatu and took me the rest of the way out of the movie, I was already dangling out of the story by that point And I love him as an actor, he seems like a decent person just showing up too much in things recently
Hell, a negative critic score drives a lot of people to pick up a movie they otherwise never would have watched. That's what happened to me with the Barbie movie at least, Sony has just died by apathy tbh
Everytime i remember the infamous Sony hack, that showed how much of a mess sony’s film division was, i genuily think Sony learned nothing from trying to make the Sinister Six without Spider-man, Venom and Spiderverse made them believe they were right and even then people crunched on the second Spiderverse film
@ that’s because Tom Rothman who was responsible for alot of the bad X-Men decissions eventually leaved Fox for… Sony, he is currently the one incharge of Spider-man at Sony currently btw
@@TheSonDowNo. People have got to stop pretending Venom is remotely redeemable. They couldn’t even get lamest symbiotes right let alone the likes of Carnage.
Hee hee, Lobo does sacrifice himself in front of Clark in Superman: Man of Tomorrow, and the next time we see Lobo Clark just goes: "...You could have mentioned the immortality." Lobo: "Heh heh, I like to keep people guessing."
Andrew got burned by Sony in ASM2 there was no way he was willing to do another movie. No Way Home was Marvel Studios therefore trustworthy as far as Spidey goes.
"The critics are wrong. Our movies are not bad. The audiences watched Venom and loved it. Therefore, our movies are good." ~ some Sony movie executive If that is the case, then why didn't people see the Morbius, Madame Webb and Kraven movies? If audience experience is the true metric for quality, then that means that Morbius, Webb, and Kraven still sucked because not a lot of people watched it in the theaters or had genuinely good stuff to say about it.
They can’t admit fault, they’re not gonna own up to the fact they were tricked into releasing Morbius again because they genuinely thought people liked them.
I was always under the impression that the Sony’s Spider-Man Villain movies were a cynical exercise to keep the film rights and that NOBODY cared. My other conspiracy theory was that Marvel was somehow preventing them from making live-action Spider-Man stuff out of concepts people would actually watch. Why the **** else would you make a Madame Webb movie instead of a Spider-Gwen, Silk, or Jessica Drew movie. That’s dumb as **** Sony also seems hopelessly determined to make a Sinister Six movie. But No Way Home is as close as they will ever get
basically yes they're placeholder films to keep a grip on rights, these companies see more value in not letting other people have things even if it costs them more money because they need to own everything
@ I don’t think Sony Pictures is in a spot where they can afford to lose Spider-Man. Honestly, Venom and Spider-Verse should be enough to stop them from losing the rights. But they clearly live in fear of an unexpected delay getting them into trouble (when are we getting Spider-Verse 3 again?) So they HAVE to keep crap like Madame Webb in production for safety reasons
RIP Tony Todd. A couple years back I rewatched those films with friends and I was gobsmacked by him being in it, because I totally forgot he was there. For what scenes they give him he just steals the spotlight.
I think Lobo would be a perfect fit for an "enforcer" villain, because you could do a funny twist on the "villain's muscle turns good and fights their boss" by having lobo switch sides for an incredibly petty reason.
The better example would've been Edsel. How an entire brand's design language (it wasn't just 1 car, it was meant to be positioned between Mercury and Ford on a luxury scale) went through without a single person saying "Hey the car literally looks like pussy/toilet" is astounding. 3rd generation nepotism at its finest.
Here's how I know they're just working the refs and don't even believe this crap themselves: Madame Webb has tons of ADR, is aggressively re-edited, and in other ways screams "we desperately attempted to salvage this after principle photography." That's shit that only happens when a studio knows a movie is bad and is doing damage control. Once in a blue moon it works, but it's never the plan going in, it's always a desperate scramble to make a bad situation as good as you can.
Kraven is not terrible, it’s definitely not great… but not like even in the top ten of the worst Marvel/Marvel Adjacent movies. It’s closer to like the middle of the line stuff that Phase 4 has put out.
@@z-mac664 So I will restate this because it appears as though my comment got lost after posting it; I watched it with a free movie ticket with my family. I truly think that Kraven is at best a 6-7 out of 10, and a majority of it's issues are editing(Stilted conversations and weird dubbing issues being the biggest of which, as well as Sony movies outside of Venom obsessing over doing cuts from current time to the past, back to current time which hasn't worked since I'd say Iron Man 1), but of the Marvel movies that Marvel itself has put out within the last three years(Which is what I'm judging it on due to the release window) I'd watch it again over Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Thor 4, Doctor Strange 2, Ant-Man 3, and The Marvels.
Madame Webb, Kraven, and the Venom trilogy are dumb early 2000s superhero flick and I enjoyed it. This doesn’t mean early 2000s superhero movies weren’t the worst, or that these movies were good, just that it gave me nostalgia for a kind of bad movie I grew up with in my childhood. Also the old early 2000s superhero movies didn’t have tons of audio issues and dubover. WTF was up with that in Webb and Kraven???
6:17 In the USA, it's the same. I actually remember seeing an at that started off with that I thought was a guy drinking from a beer bottle, but then I watched that part again and saw that the cap was STILL ON, so basically all that happened was his lips touched a bottle cap and he acted like he just had a refreshing beer. (I think the ad might have been one of those ads where the beer company tells you to enjoy their drinks responsibly and don't drink and drive.)
I find it hilarious that in a time when nobody on this planet takes the opinion of any journalist seriously, the "critics" are the reason why these movies bomb.
could someone point to the Netflix story "that came out this week"? Tried googling about Netflix saying what they are doing out loud and all I see are articles for the audio description option. Also, could anyone tell me who Yimby is? I also tried to Google that, and all I saw was the other clip from this podcast, and the "yes in my back yard" movement.
As far as I can tell, I think Yimby is supposed to be Jimmy from Mouthwashing? idk for sure, I haven't watched Woolie play it, so I have no idea why they're calling him that.
In Mouthwashing (I think in the infirmary?) there's a note with a forced perspective drawing of one of the characters, Jimmy, with 'Yimby' written over it. Woolie has been running with the joke that Yimby is the true villain of Mouthwashing, and also saying the name funny.
I feel like a baby seeing Pat without any facial hair: who ARE you?? You imposter! But in actuality it looks fine just different. Nice change of pace. I know at one point he accidentally messed up and had to start over maybe he did that again.
I think what I found funny about the Kraven movie is that Kraven is actually a very beloved Spiderman villain that people would actually like to see if he wasn't following up 3 Vemon movies with incredibly mixed reception and two of the least appealing comic book movies in a landscape already burnt out on comic book movies.
The problem with Kraven is his best story is the one that relied on twenty years of rivalry with Spider-Man... and the story in which he died. You cannot tell that story without Spider-Man.
@@MrStath1986 I mean that's the problem with all of these movies to begin with. All of these characters were written to play off of Spiderman and then they took him away. So now you get stuff like Venom without his iconic spider theming because he only got that when he met Peter, or Madam Web being a young able bodied woman now that she's expected to be a marketable superhero. They tried to build a multi-million franchise out of forcing round pegs into square holes.
@@thelastchannelonyoutube At least with Venom, in more runs involving him he's more distant with Spidey then anything. Like they'll have their squabbles and whatnot but Venom/Eddie have a kid to look after now. They've more or less got over their grudge with him and as a result he isn't *outright* villainous anymore. Like sure the origins and some of the early plots *need* Spider-Man but most runs involving him nowadays? Don't really need him so to speak.
The thing about the venom movies is that they're still terrible movies, but Tom Hardy as Venom/Eddie are just so fun to watch onscreen that it doesn't really matter that everything else happening around them kinda sucks. You take away the fun protagonist and replace him with a stoic morbing man or a good guy version of an interesting villain, no one wants to see it.
They did de-age Dafoe in No Way Home, in one of his interviews he specifically says that they did de-age him and that it looks a bit weird and not that good.
Talking about the weird Madame Web product placement, don't ask me how this will all be able to be changed, apparently all the Pepsi product placement is on a timed contract. This means once the contract expires, if other companies want to bid on the product placement, they can and the pepsi will be CGI'd out and monster or redbull or whatever can be CGI'd in it's place. Also more ADR'd lines won't need to be added in.
Andrew is steering clear and good on him. Sony absolutely cannot be trusted with this franchise. They’re what Constain Films are to Resident Evil, pure poison. Two good animated movies aren’t enough either.
Could you imagine being the actress for Madame Web, being handed a Pepsi for a scene and instinctively go to open it and the director tells you no. Don't drink it. She doesnt drink it. She gets handed it ten times and never drinks it.
Did anyone else spend the first minute thinking "Why is Pat wearing a seatbelt?" before remembering everything about the dog. Also beardless Pat confuses and frightens me.
Everyone hatin till we get to the after credits and it’s revealed that Pepsi Man is in the universe and will teach her how to finally open the can and transform into a Pepsi hero. In the long awaited sequel of course.
Genuinely would've been fine with a venom based cinematic universe seeing as those are the most enjoyable movies of the sony verse. Also venom is cool.
@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat Late reply but yeah, the venom movies are much more digestible as you actually like venom and can deal with some of the nonsense in those movies. The first one is the best one but the other two are still worth watching once. Just go in with not too high expectations.
@@SpicypuffAs someone who actually likes the Venom comics and characters it feels you’re just playing devil’s advocate bud. They butchered the characters (especially Carnage) and even if you lower your expectations, they’re super boring as well. People only give it a pass because he looks like he does in the comics. It’s the same dumb mentality that makes people praise the Silent Hill movies or Welcome to Raccoon City.
Is the not opening the can bit so they dont have to open multiple if they have multiple takes of the same scene? My only logical explanation for a dumb problem.
I think the reason they don't put Spider-Man in the movies is because they have a contract with Tom Holland and would have to pay him millions of dollars so they just went with the cheap option.
Look all I’m saying is if they put Morbius in theaters a third time so people would actually 100% for real definitely go see it this time this would never have been a problem.
The original Sony/Marvel deal included Tom's appearances up until I believe Far From Home. In where Sony could have a MCU character (Tony, Fury, etc) for their films while Marvel could use him in others (Infinity War, Endgame). Then a new smaller deal was made amid the short-term fallout between Sony and Marvel which included his appearance in No Way Home and another appearance in an MCU film that hasn't been used yet (Doomsday or Secret Wars, or maybe both).
I think the worst part about Craven was how blatant they were in avoiding associating it with Spider-Man. I thought it was like a cool John Wick / equalizer / sisu movie Then after it comes out, there's all this talk about it being another Spider-Man spin-off failure, and I was like, "it's a Spider-Man movie??"
I was actually hype for a half-second when I heard the casting for Lobo, because I thought that there was a full-on Lobo movie coming out. And then my heart was immediately ripped out of my chest within five seconds, from hearing "...in Supergirl." I audibly shouted out "FUCK!" 🤣
Eh, I think it could be a good starting point for the character; he's a bounty hunter and a complete antithesis to characters like Kal and Kara. Have him first appear as someone after Kara and then go after the bad guys because they threaten his dolphins or whatever.
The Venom movies are great because of the underlying truth of all media: if you write your leads as if they were in a messy relationship, people will love that shit
Carnage looked cool, but boy was that movie bad. You didn't even really get proper carnage because of the age rating. I don't plan to ever watch the last one, just not worth it really
@chuckleshelicopterwigwamjo6305 Nah, that movie was fun as hell. I didn't need edgelord Carnage, I just wanted more Eddie and Venom relationship nonsense.
I just watched Venom 3 last night. The trailer itself already told me it was going to be bad compared to the other two, and I was right. It's not a terrible movie, but it's not good like the other two either. I think it having an in movie reason for them not being able to go full Venom mode often hamstrung it super hard, and the overall plot from minute 1 of the movie revolving around Knull felt like way too quick of a jump in stakes compared to the previous two movies. It's super obvious a fourth one is planned too since Knull himself was not dealt with and with the implications left at the end of the movie. I thought they did the first Venom movie perfectly and I liked the second one, especially since we finally got Carnage in a movie. But this one felt like it was both 30 minutes too long for the script they had, while also being 30 minutes too short for the story they really wanted to tell.
Venom 3 is just a Hulk movie. Seriously, drifter superhero on the run from the military and a relentless general in the desert. Big monster fight in the base at the end. All the Sony movies are bad, they’re as bad as the worst X-Men films and the entirely of Phase 4. It’s a waste of these characters and sooner Marvel gets the rights back the better.
These films alone might as well be behind making people groan at the concept of Superhero films (putting aside current MCU and the failed DCEU), even though there's still some great stuff coming out.
Absolutely. Not defending Marvel’s Phase 4 movies or crap shows like Secret Invasion, but Sony have pumped out these crap movies like crazy even when Marvel Studios took breaks.
they really aren't. i think the absolute state of phase 4 has contributed a lot more to that fatigue since there are people out in the world who actuallly care about the mcu.
With every time a CEO talks about a thing that was good but failed because everyone else is stupid, the more realistic I think Kale's plan of mind controlling the populace for no reason other than that he doesn't want to do marketing was
I know we're all supposed to be making fun of Netflix for its shows and movies where characters announce everything they're doing. . . but like, that's literally Jojo most of the time.
I kinda like the Venom movie probably the to come from these Sony movies by comparison. Movies like Madame Web are just 100% awful like you know it’s bad when some of the actors are realizing it’s shit before and after its release.
As someone who sick of superhero movies I'm glad Sony cancelled their superheroes cinematic universe but now they should've gone full on aboard on Venom with Tom Hardy at the helm. I want my goopy gay alien and his sweaty boyfriend's nonsense adventure, Sony! Spiderman can join sometimes, as a treat.
I know everyone hated Kraven but I honestly enjoyed the movie since I saw it as more of a SyFy original about a guy with superpowers than a Marvel Villain origin story. In contrast I hated Venom Last Dance. All those symbiotes on screen, wasted. Didn’t even bother seeing Madame Web.
It shouldn't be all that surprising that an exec of a major publicly traded corporation would lie. When the goals and their fiduciary responsibility is about keeping the share price up and keep investors holding on to their shares of course they aren't going to be 100% honest neither will they be 100% dishonest to prevent the risk of shareholder lawsuits. Notice his statement contains certain facts that are true and certain ones that are categorically false in order to muddy the narrative. The system pretty much incentivizes dishonesty, half truths and gaslighting. Because admitting to failure and taking responsibility or just even acknowledging reality in general results in tanking the share price at best or at worst lawsuits from shareholders or regulators.
I wish when people talk about/make thumbnails with movies that are "bad"'s score, they'd use audience scores. It makes it seem disingenuous when people use critic scores since critics can't gauge a movie properly or truthfully.
Remember when Carpenter's The Thing was lambasted by critics AND audiences and it took years for the "no, idiots, this rocks" tide to turn? Review scores are neither the map nor the territory, they're a data point that may prove right or wrong or entirely subjectively over time.
they use the critic scores in the thumbnail because the argument you're trying to make right now is the exact argument that the sony exec they're quoting is making. and he's wrong.
"the audience loved venom" Well I stopped watching before a half hour because I thought it sucked, and most people are so starved of quality entertainment that they'll accept something like it and sing its praises simply because it's at least not as awful as all the other options.
It’s also a complete waste of a Spider-Woman movie, hell it’s not even a Spider-Woman movie, they choose a character nobody cared about just because she’s mystical and can justify spin-offs. Now if they do a Jessica Drew movie, it’s gonna be tainted.
I'll say it, i enjoyed venom but it's a VERY low bar of enjoyment. Anything afterward was on them, thy could've done it at the same level but they just did the bar lower with every movie they've done 🤣☠ EDIT: I believe that sony didnt use Tom because (other than the actors not wanting to work, which is weird for Tom knowing uncharted) Sony doesnt want the movies to be tied to disney mcu so they could have a chance to cash on their own "spiderman" ips... only LOGICAL thing i can think 😂
I didn’t watch Venom 1 and 2, but watching Last Dance felt like my brain was melting. The idea that the monster in that movie only hunts Eddie and kills people when Venom is completely transformed with Eddie is a dumb rule. And the ending where they just give up is such an unsatisfying resolution. Not to mention those scientist ladies sacrificing their lab and coworkers for their Symbiote fetish made me hate them so much, especially when Venom basically invalidates their efforts to save both of them. The writing in that movie was brain dead. Were all of these not-Spidermen movies written in a week by the same person?
"Way more people would come see our bad movies if movie critics would stop telling them how bad our movies are."
"Really unfair of those public health inspectors telling our customers that rats poop on their food."
everyone*
Time to Morb again!
"yes, we are very smart".
I love how coddling CEOs so much has led to this
instead of taking criticism to improve their product they instead say "teaacherrrr the consumers are bullying me"
Modern Buisness Practice rewards Higher ups who make bad decisions and are able to fire workers instead of getting punished, and even get a raise due to mass firing and tax write offs from failiures. This leads to a work ethic where bad leaders have no way of getting punished or fired.
@@erhanjpg1467 Luigi, luigi, oh yeah, oh yeah.
...and then they Fail upwards while using tokenized marginal identities as shields
Celebrity and Money worship has led up to this point
"They make money so they must be good"
"They're famous so they must be good"
It's all controlled and manufactured
@@erhanjpg1467similar to Uwe Boll.
Am I so out of touch?
No, it's the critics that are wrong.
@@theotherjared9824 it was the world that did it.
Now there are times where everyone is in fact wrong, this is certainly not one of them
Classic Simpson meme!
Shoutouts to Avi Arad for completely ignoring the criticism for his Sony Spiderman movies and potentially ruining the Zelda movie that he's in charge of
As somebody who's special interest is Zelda, it's gonna blow our expectations out of the water... For how shit it's gonna be. Expecting to see 'Nintendo Seal of Quality' memes all over Twitter when it comes out.
@@nahman3836 boy you really got me heated for the start of that comment
Let's hope it is not as bad
@@Dracobyte I've learned that it's best to expect garbage even if you hope for something good. It got me through Alita Battle Angel.
“Crucifried”
-Woolie
Big the cat literally crucifried Jesus
the worst part is aside from madam web you could make a interesting film based off of Kraven and Morbius because they have enough personal drama from their years of history to make a interesting film but you have to be REALLY smart with how you write them which isn't being practiced with those films. For reference Punisher was a spiderman villain at his inception.
I think the problem (apart from crap writing and production) is theses characters simply don’t work without the Marvel universe, not just Spidey himself.
Kraven would’ve been awesome in the Black Panther films and the Spider-Girls from Madame Web could easily show up in the Daredevil street-level stuff. Without any kind of connective tissue, it’s just dull slop.
People tend to forget how much stuff in comics are spun off from other stuff in comics and wind up beloved pillars in their own right.
My personal favorite: Wolverine was originally conceived of as a Hulk antagonist. They just rolled him into the Xmen because why not.
^ this
@The5lacker I genuinely didn't know that about wolverine but that makes him so much funnier in context. "We need a good antagonist for the Hulk, someone who can keep up with the strongest man alive. I know! Pissed off indestructible manlet with metal claws" I love comics lmao
Yeah, Moon Knight first appeared in Werewolf by Night, but he’s had nothing to do with for a long time. Character can work divorced from their OG appearances, but there needs to be substance to them.
If Lobo unironically said. "Erm, what the frag?" Before getting decked by Supergirl id love that.
It should be he tries to punch her and she catches his fist he says "Erm, What the Frag?" Then she punches him. there has to be a reason for him to say it.
@wil2560 well I was thinking he thinks he's blasted her to a pulp or something but when the smoke clears she's like waving him over to give his best shot. Your idea is good too. Either would suffice.
Yeyeye
The real hero of Madame Webb was Pepsiman all along
Have a Pepsi... Next stage is stuck in my head forever 😂
Madame Webb is a tragedy about two characters who have seen Madame Webb in advance, and whose conflicting attempts to make sure Madame Webb doesn't happen wind up causing it.
Pepsi for tv game
Pepsimaaaann!!
Man why cant I get a million dollar job where all I have to do is be as delusional as possible and simp for a major corpo?
You werent born surrounded with rich delusional people or in california
have you tried inheriting an emerald mine?
Try buying things and pretending you invented them by yourself, then work your way from there?
learning what words mean would be a good start.
@@miguelnewmexico8641 Isn't it the opposite for shills and CEOs? You have to try very very hard to convince people that words don't have any kind of implication or meaning, that way you can hopefully trick them into believing whatever you want against their better judgement.
I think the amazing thing is that SONY actually weren't legally barred from using Spider-Man in their films, and as a result had every opportunity to introduce a live action Miles Morales, yet choose not to. So not only is this spiteful rights hoarding from Disney, its being that incompetent in working with what you have.
Sony is paying for their hubris. They had the opportunity to buy the entire Marvel franchise outright but just choose Spider-Man believing the other characters were worthless.
Now they’re laughing stock desperately clutching the character like a kid in a supermarket
Mike Morales hahahahah good one
@@DANCERcow what?
I finally watched Kraven last night and it’s crazy how little happened in that movie. Even with a 2 hour runtime it just felt like scenes just happened with no rhyme or reason. I loved it.
I think the most reasonable explanation for the pepsi can stuff is probably because while they were obligated to do those shots, the actress probably refused or sabotaged the placement. And no one in production cared or was sufficiently competent to ensure they actually did the advertisement properly.
That was my thought too, this was the most that Dakota Johnson was able to do in terms of preserving her integrity.
The thing about New Coke is how much genuinely well thought out work and effort went into it. There was so much testing and surveys and ad buildup and it was all driven by a CEO actually going "we are losing market share, maybe we should try something new", which is the right thing to do! And it all fell apart because they didn't understand the fundamental reason Coke was popular, which was its unchanging nature.
until they made it out of corn syrup instead of sugar and ruined it
That, and they also took old coke off the market to replace it with New Coke. They made a massive shift without caring about whether anyone wanted to go back or not.
@@redgunnit That's a good point. If they offered it as a new option instead of a total replacement they probably could've gotten away with it, but I imagine that's quite a bit more difficult in terms of mass manufacturing.
Granted, making syrups for soda I imagine uses mostly the same machinery no matter the formula. I imagine the difficulty would be on the packaging side.
corn syrup *is* sugar. deal with it, nerd.
Its stupid because customers couldn't actually tell the difference anyway so they could have just slowly replaced the sugar with corn syrup
@@miguelnewmexico8641 That's like saying that molasses and syrup are the same thing. In spirit yes, in practice... No.
Willem Dafoe as literally anyone ever is a great idea.
Willem Dafoe as Gordon Ramsay
My dream casting is Willem Dafoe as Visser 3.
He showed up in Nosferatu and took me the rest of the way out of the movie, I was already dangling out of the story by that point
And I love him as an actor, he seems like a decent person just showing up too much in things recently
it just made my head explode that all 3 of these movies were the same year, jesus christ
It is genuinely unbelievable how much power weird execs and fanboys act like critics have. When they have barely any
Any scapegoat necessary to avoid thinking about the actual problems with the things they say they like or engaging in any amount of self improvement
@@z-mac664They also don’t want to admit they’re literally only making these movies to retain the rights.
Hell, a negative critic score drives a lot of people to pick up a movie they otherwise never would have watched. That's what happened to me with the Barbie movie at least, Sony has just died by apathy tbh
Everytime i remember the infamous Sony hack, that showed how much of a mess sony’s film division was, i genuily think Sony learned nothing from trying to make the Sinister Six without Spider-man, Venom and Spiderverse made them believe they were right and even then people crunched on the second Spiderverse film
Somehow Sony owning spider man turned out really bad but fox owning Deadpool actually worked out great
@ that’s because Tom Rothman who was responsible for alot of the bad X-Men decissions eventually leaved Fox for… Sony, he is currently the one incharge of Spider-man at Sony currently btw
They lucked out with venom tho
How's that trilogy going 3 years later
@@TheSonDowNo. People have got to stop pretending Venom is remotely redeemable. They couldn’t even get lamest symbiotes right let alone the likes of Carnage.
I hope Lobo sacrifices himself in Supergirl but then goes "yeah I'm not dead. Healing factor and all".
Hee hee, Lobo does sacrifice himself in front of Clark in Superman: Man of Tomorrow, and the next time we see Lobo Clark just goes: "...You could have mentioned the immortality."
Lobo: "Heh heh, I like to keep people guessing."
No Pat. They can't use Tom Holland. Marvel Disney told them no. They CAN use Andrew Garfield and didn't even bother
Andrew got burned by Sony in ASM2 there was no way he was willing to do another movie. No Way Home was Marvel Studios therefore trustworthy as far as Spidey goes.
Yup!
I gotta say, @8:01 Pat, this is why we love you.
"The critics are wrong. Our movies are not bad. The audiences watched Venom and loved it. Therefore, our movies are good." ~ some Sony movie executive
If that is the case, then why didn't people see the Morbius, Madame Webb and Kraven movies?
If audience experience is the true metric for quality, then that means that Morbius, Webb, and Kraven still sucked because not a lot of people watched it in the theaters or had genuinely good stuff to say about it.
They can’t admit fault, they’re not gonna own up to the fact they were tricked into releasing Morbius again because they genuinely thought people liked them.
I kinda like Venom can’t say same for the others though.
Pierce Brosnan was killer as Doctor Fate in Black Adam. Movie's saving grace.
I was always under the impression that the Sony’s Spider-Man Villain movies were a cynical exercise to keep the film rights and that NOBODY cared.
My other conspiracy theory was that Marvel was somehow preventing them from making live-action Spider-Man stuff out of concepts people would actually watch. Why the **** else would you make a Madame Webb movie instead of a Spider-Gwen, Silk, or Jessica Drew movie. That’s dumb as ****
Sony also seems hopelessly determined to make a Sinister Six movie. But No Way Home is as close as they will ever get
basically yes they're placeholder films to keep a grip on rights, these companies see more value in not letting other people have things even if it costs them more money because they need to own everything
@ I don’t think Sony Pictures is in a spot where they can afford to lose Spider-Man. Honestly, Venom and Spider-Verse should be enough to stop them from losing the rights. But they clearly live in fear of an unexpected delay getting them into trouble (when are we getting Spider-Verse 3 again?) So they HAVE to keep crap like Madame Webb in production for safety reasons
madame Webb should've been final destination 6 and the villain is the mortician.
just have the most brutal deaths and fake outs as her powers grow to avoid death from a serial killer trying to extend his life.
Who, Tony Todd? That'd be great
@rudeboyspodcast RIP but yeah.
RIP Tony Todd. A couple years back I rewatched those films with friends and I was gobsmacked by him being in it, because I totally forgot he was there. For what scenes they give him he just steals the spotlight.
Kraven: It has what viewers Krave
I think Lobo would be a perfect fit for an "enforcer" villain, because you could do a funny twist on the "villain's muscle turns good and fights their boss" by having lobo switch sides for an incredibly petty reason.
The only thing stupid about new coke is that they told you they changed something.
The better example would've been Edsel. How an entire brand's design language (it wasn't just 1 car, it was meant to be positioned between Mercury and Ford on a luxury scale) went through without a single person saying "Hey the car literally looks like pussy/toilet" is astounding. 3rd generation nepotism at its finest.
Didn't they start adding in corn syrup since that whole debacle?
@@TheHeavyModdthe switch from sugar to corn syrup was made when they brought back "coke classic", yeah. (only in north america though)
Here's how I know they're just working the refs and don't even believe this crap themselves: Madame Webb has tons of ADR, is aggressively re-edited, and in other ways screams "we desperately attempted to salvage this after principle photography." That's shit that only happens when a studio knows a movie is bad and is doing damage control. Once in a blue moon it works, but it's never the plan going in, it's always a desperate scramble to make a bad situation as good as you can.
Thanks for another videoclip!
Pat: they should have had William dafoe play spider man
Woolie: let him cook
Me: let him cook
Pat: but he's still in high school
Me: LET HIM COOK
This was also The Rock's cope for Red One, claiming that the success on Amazon Prime means its *totally* a great movie.
Avi Arad,truly the biggest of Marvel villains
Him, Tom Rothman and Zeb Wells can all go dive under a tractor. Each one of them are hacks.
Apparently kraven is so bad it's not even playing in a theater near me, despite it coming out less than a month ago, lol
Kraven is not terrible, it’s definitely not great… but not like even in the top ten of the worst Marvel/Marvel Adjacent movies.
It’s closer to like the middle of the line stuff that Phase 4 has put out.
I think youre insane.
@@sigma190betaSONY SUIT DETECTED! EXECUTIVE IN CHAT!
Wait, that came out?!
@@z-mac664 So I will restate this because it appears as though my comment got lost after posting it;
I watched it with a free movie ticket with my family. I truly think that Kraven is at best a 6-7 out of 10, and a majority of it's issues are editing(Stilted conversations and weird dubbing issues being the biggest of which, as well as Sony movies outside of Venom obsessing over doing cuts from current time to the past, back to current time which hasn't worked since I'd say Iron Man 1), but of the Marvel movies that Marvel itself has put out within the last three years(Which is what I'm judging it on due to the release window) I'd watch it again over Black Widow, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Thor 4, Doctor Strange 2, Ant-Man 3, and The Marvels.
Sony is that Skinner “Am I so out of touch? No it’s the children are wrong” meme personified.
Buffy has a scene where a balding man in his mid to late 30s unironically acts like the other highschoolers and nobody says anything
I don't remember that, but I assume magic was involved.
Was that Joss Whedon's self-insert fantasy?
Madame Webb, Kraven, and the Venom trilogy are dumb early 2000s superhero flick and I enjoyed it.
This doesn’t mean early 2000s superhero movies weren’t the worst, or that these movies were good, just that it gave me nostalgia for a kind of bad movie I grew up with in my childhood.
Also the old early 2000s superhero movies didn’t have tons of audio issues and dubover. WTF was up with that in Webb and Kraven???
6:17 In the USA, it's the same. I actually remember seeing an at that started off with that I thought was a guy drinking from a beer bottle, but then I watched that part again and saw that the cap was STILL ON, so basically all that happened was his lips touched a bottle cap and he acted like he just had a refreshing beer. (I think the ad might have been one of those ads where the beer company tells you to enjoy their drinks responsibly and don't drink and drive.)
In the USA I think the rule is you can't drink the alcohol in an ad if the actor is alone. They have to be in a public venue.
I find it hilarious that in a time when nobody on this planet takes the opinion of any journalist seriously, the "critics" are the reason why these movies bomb.
could someone point to the Netflix story "that came out this week"? Tried googling about Netflix saying what they are doing out loud and all I see are articles for the audio description option. Also, could anyone tell me who Yimby is? I also tried to Google that, and all I saw was the other clip from this podcast, and the "yes in my back yard" movement.
As far as I can tell, I think Yimby is supposed to be Jimmy from Mouthwashing? idk for sure, I haven't watched Woolie play it, so I have no idea why they're calling him that.
In Mouthwashing (I think in the infirmary?) there's a note with a forced perspective drawing of one of the characters, Jimmy, with 'Yimby' written over it. Woolie has been running with the joke that Yimby is the true villain of Mouthwashing, and also saying the name funny.
I feel like a baby seeing Pat without any facial hair: who ARE you?? You imposter!
But in actuality it looks fine just different. Nice change of pace. I know at one point he accidentally messed up and had to start over maybe he did that again.
I think what I found funny about the Kraven movie is that Kraven is actually a very beloved Spiderman villain that people would actually like to see if he wasn't following up 3 Vemon movies with incredibly mixed reception and two of the least appealing comic book movies in a landscape already burnt out on comic book movies.
The problem with Kraven is his best story is the one that relied on twenty years of rivalry with Spider-Man... and the story in which he died. You cannot tell that story without Spider-Man.
@@MrStath1986 I mean that's the problem with all of these movies to begin with. All of these characters were written to play off of Spiderman and then they took him away. So now you get stuff like Venom without his iconic spider theming because he only got that when he met Peter, or Madam Web being a young able bodied woman now that she's expected to be a marketable superhero. They tried to build a multi-million franchise out of forcing round pegs into square holes.
@@thelastchannelonyoutube At least with Venom, in more runs involving him he's more distant with Spidey then anything. Like they'll have their squabbles and whatnot but Venom/Eddie have a kid to look after now. They've more or less got over their grudge with him and as a result he isn't *outright* villainous anymore. Like sure the origins and some of the early plots *need* Spider-Man but most runs involving him nowadays? Don't really need him so to speak.
The thing about the venom movies is that they're still terrible movies, but Tom Hardy as Venom/Eddie are just so fun to watch onscreen that it doesn't really matter that everything else happening around them kinda sucks. You take away the fun protagonist and replace him with a stoic morbing man or a good guy version of an interesting villain, no one wants to see it.
I'd rather watch Tom Hardy be entertaining in other things that don't suck
They did de-age Dafoe in No Way Home, in one of his interviews he specifically says that they did de-age him and that it looks a bit weird and not that good.
10:00 pretty sure they've been saying hes gonna be lobo for a couple years already
100% sure ive seen it before now
They lost their chance for an IRL Lobo when Randy Savage died
I remember when you guys first started talking about kraven YEARS ago. Can't believe that fart finally eeked out
Talking about the weird Madame Web product placement, don't ask me how this will all be able to be changed, apparently all the Pepsi product placement is on a timed contract. This means once the contract expires, if other companies want to bid on the product placement, they can and the pepsi will be CGI'd out and monster or redbull or whatever can be CGI'd in it's place. Also more ADR'd lines won't need to be added in.
They'll give us this shit but not an amazing spider man 3
Andrew is steering clear and good on him. Sony absolutely cannot be trusted with this franchise. They’re what Constain Films are to Resident Evil, pure poison.
Two good animated movies aren’t enough either.
Could you imagine being the actress for Madame Web, being handed a Pepsi for a scene and instinctively go to open it and the director tells you no. Don't drink it. She doesnt drink it. She gets handed it ten times and never drinks it.
Did anyone else spend the first minute thinking "Why is Pat wearing a seatbelt?" before remembering everything about the dog. Also beardless Pat confuses and frightens me.
The fact deadpool and wolverine was the only one in the green from the mcu last year man i love passion projects from caring actors
Did any other MCU movie come out last year?
@@Kango234 not so anyone noticed
Everyone hatin till we get to the after credits and it’s revealed that Pepsi Man is in the universe and will teach her how to finally open the can and transform into a Pepsi hero. In the long awaited sequel of course.
Oof, that Pepsi cut gave me severe second-hand embarrassment.
Its extra funny when the madame web trailer did more for its word of mouth than any critic on its release
Genuinely would've been fine with a venom based cinematic universe seeing as those are the most enjoyable movies of the sony verse. Also venom is cool.
They are? Damn
@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat Late reply but yeah, the venom movies are much more digestible as you actually like venom and can deal with some of the nonsense in those movies. The first one is the best one but the other two are still worth watching once. Just go in with not too high expectations.
@@SpicypuffAs someone who actually likes the Venom comics and characters it feels you’re just playing devil’s advocate bud. They butchered the characters (especially Carnage) and even if you lower your expectations, they’re super boring as well.
People only give it a pass because he looks like he does in the comics. It’s the same dumb mentality that makes people praise the Silent Hill movies or Welcome to Raccoon City.
Is the not opening the can bit so they dont have to open multiple if they have multiple takes of the same scene? My only logical explanation for a dumb problem.
I think the reason they don't put Spider-Man in the movies is because they have a contract with Tom Holland and would have to pay him millions of dollars so they just went with the cheap option.
Look all I’m saying is if they put Morbius in theaters a third time so people would actually 100% for real definitely go see it this time this would never have been a problem.
I would absolutely watch a "How do you do, fellow kids" Willem Dafoe spiderman movie.
7:40 thats why the villain of madame webb is not-spiderman
The original Sony/Marvel deal included Tom's appearances up until I believe Far From Home. In where Sony could have a MCU character (Tony, Fury, etc) for their films while Marvel could use him in others (Infinity War, Endgame). Then a new smaller deal was made amid the short-term fallout between Sony and Marvel which included his appearance in No Way Home and another appearance in an MCU film that hasn't been used yet (Doomsday or Secret Wars, or maybe both).
I always forget there's a different Euphoria regular people know about.
Pat being shaved scares me a little...
Relevant song recommendation: Redesign Your Logo, by Neil Cicierega.
“Madame Webb is really good when you don’t have critics in your ear telling you how bad it is”
I think the worst part about Craven was how blatant they were in avoiding associating it with Spider-Man. I thought it was like a cool John Wick / equalizer / sisu movie
Then after it comes out, there's all this talk about it being another Spider-Man spin-off failure, and I was like, "it's a Spider-Man movie??"
I was actually hype for a half-second when I heard the casting for Lobo, because I thought that there was a full-on Lobo movie coming out.
And then my heart was immediately ripped out of my chest within five seconds, from hearing "...in Supergirl."
I audibly shouted out "FUCK!" 🤣
Eh, I think it could be a good starting point for the character; he's a bounty hunter and a complete antithesis to characters like Kal and Kara. Have him first appear as someone after Kara and then go after the bad guys because they threaten his dolphins or whatever.
My God does she know how cans work?!
Bold strategy, trying to gaslight people into not believing they're lying eyes and ears. Let's see if it works out for them.
I could see Wille Dafoe as like old Spiderman mentoring Mayday Par-
No, high-school Willem Dafoe is better.
The Venom movies are unironically great, but that's more in spite of Sony than as a result of the intended franchising.
The Venom movies are great because of the underlying truth of all media: if you write your leads as if they were in a messy relationship, people will love that shit
@The5lacker Tom Hardy helps too. He's great as a greasy sack of shit. Love it.
@@The5lackerDisagree. They’ve okay Hulk movies. But completely crap on Venom, Carnage and rest of the symbiotes. People just have Stockholm syndrome.
Carnage looked cool, but boy was that movie bad. You didn't even really get proper carnage because of the age rating. I don't plan to ever watch the last one, just not worth it really
@chuckleshelicopterwigwamjo6305 Nah, that movie was fun as hell. I didn't need edgelord Carnage, I just wanted more Eddie and Venom relationship nonsense.
Unpopular opinion I guess but I liked him as Aquaman, he was fun and the character needed some love and enthusiasm.
I just watched Venom 3 last night. The trailer itself already told me it was going to be bad compared to the other two, and I was right. It's not a terrible movie, but it's not good like the other two either.
I think it having an in movie reason for them not being able to go full Venom mode often hamstrung it super hard, and the overall plot from minute 1 of the movie revolving around Knull felt like way too quick of a jump in stakes compared to the previous two movies. It's super obvious a fourth one is planned too since Knull himself was not dealt with and with the implications left at the end of the movie.
I thought they did the first Venom movie perfectly and I liked the second one, especially since we finally got Carnage in a movie. But this one felt like it was both 30 minutes too long for the script they had, while also being 30 minutes too short for the story they really wanted to tell.
Venom 3 is just a Hulk movie. Seriously, drifter superhero on the run from the military and a relentless general in the desert. Big monster fight in the base at the end.
All the Sony movies are bad, they’re as bad as the worst X-Men films and the entirely of Phase 4. It’s a waste of these characters and sooner Marvel gets the rights back the better.
@@li-limandragon9287 please get medicated.
I like how you are sticking with the bit that 301 is 300.
They should have had Jamison be spiderman
These films alone might as well be behind making people groan at the concept of Superhero films (putting aside current MCU and the failed DCEU), even though there's still some great stuff coming out.
Absolutely. Not defending Marvel’s Phase 4 movies or crap shows like Secret Invasion, but Sony have pumped out these crap movies like crazy even when Marvel Studios took breaks.
they really aren't. i think the absolute state of phase 4 has contributed a lot more to that fatigue since there are people out in the world who actuallly care about the mcu.
If sony sold their movie division I'd buy so much of their stock.
Honestly as out of touch as he is I can appreciate someone being so ride or die for their employees that they'll look at dogshit and call it gold lmao
Crucifried?
Feed the monster
I thought we had found out that critics don't actually influence audiences though?
hey maybe in the 9th live action spiderman movie we'll finally get fuckin spiderwoman or spidergwen or miles
With every time a CEO talks about a thing that was good but failed because everyone else is stupid, the more realistic I think Kale's plan of mind controlling the populace for no reason other than that he doesn't want to do marketing was
listening to these guys never gets old lmaaaaoo
I know we're all supposed to be making fun of Netflix for its shows and movies where characters announce everything they're doing. . .
but like, that's literally Jojo most of the time.
Maybe its cause i have a head cold right now, but for some reason Pat looks like he is A.I.
I kinda like the Venom movie probably the to come from these Sony movies by comparison. Movies like Madame Web are just 100% awful like you know it’s bad when some of the actors are realizing it’s shit before and after its release.
As someone who sick of superhero movies I'm glad Sony cancelled their superheroes cinematic universe but now they should've gone full on aboard on Venom with Tom Hardy at the helm. I want my goopy gay alien and his sweaty boyfriend's nonsense adventure, Sony! Spiderman can join sometimes, as a treat.
I know everyone hated Kraven but I honestly enjoyed the movie since I saw it as more of a SyFy original about a guy with superpowers than a Marvel Villain origin story. In contrast I hated Venom Last Dance. All those symbiotes on screen, wasted.
Didn’t even bother seeing Madame Web.
The guy never watched the movie or he did and has to lie super hard into believing Madam Web is good.
It shouldn't be all that surprising that an exec of a major publicly traded corporation would lie. When the goals and their fiduciary responsibility is about keeping the share price up and keep investors holding on to their shares of course they aren't going to be 100% honest neither will they be 100% dishonest to prevent the risk of shareholder lawsuits. Notice his statement contains certain facts that are true and certain ones that are categorically false in order to muddy the narrative. The system pretty much incentivizes dishonesty, half truths and gaslighting. Because admitting to failure and taking responsibility or just even acknowledging reality in general results in tanking the share price at best or at worst lawsuits from shareholders or regulators.
It’s like George Lucas bullshitting himself about the phantom menace
@@crimsondynamo615At least Lucas admitted he went too far in places. Sony is gonna act like they’re producing gold while smeared with poo.
@@crimsondynamo615george lucas was the first person ever to say there was something wrong with the movie.
I wish when people talk about/make thumbnails with movies that are "bad"'s score, they'd use audience scores.
It makes it seem disingenuous when people use critic scores since critics can't gauge a movie properly or truthfully.
Remember when Carpenter's The Thing was lambasted by critics AND audiences and it took years for the "no, idiots, this rocks" tide to turn? Review scores are neither the map nor the territory, they're a data point that may prove right or wrong or entirely subjectively over time.
@@TruKriegsaffeNo9 cool, now name an example that more modern instead of the already known factoid.
@@Zeradias it reads to me that the dude is more agreeing with you than anything. so why are you trying to start shit?
they use the critic scores in the thumbnail because the argument you're trying to make right now is the exact argument that the sony exec they're quoting is making. and he's wrong.
When's Cyberpunk?
"the audience loved venom" Well I stopped watching before a half hour because I thought it sucked, and most people are so starved of quality entertainment that they'll accept something like it and sing its praises simply because it's at least not as awful as all the other options.
"The movie was good!" -Man who has not watched it
I watched Madame Webb when it was on Netflix with a friend.
No. It is not good. It is incredibly braindead and bad.
It’s also a complete waste of a Spider-Woman movie, hell it’s not even a Spider-Woman movie, they choose a character nobody cared about just because she’s mystical and can justify spin-offs.
Now if they do a Jessica Drew movie, it’s gonna be tainted.
I'll say it, i enjoyed venom but it's a VERY low bar of enjoyment. Anything afterward was on them, thy could've done it at the same level but they just did the bar lower with every movie they've done 🤣☠
EDIT: I believe that sony didnt use Tom because (other than the actors not wanting to work, which is weird for Tom knowing uncharted) Sony doesnt want the movies to be tied to disney mcu so they could have a chance to cash on their own "spiderman" ips... only LOGICAL thing i can think 😂
TheMorbnMadameKrave trilogy is finally complete *smokes a candy cigarette *
I don't know what's worse - Sony's denial or Pat without hair
There's more than one baby in that house, apparently.
I didn’t watch Venom 1 and 2, but watching Last Dance felt like my brain was melting. The idea that the monster in that movie only hunts Eddie and kills people when Venom is completely transformed with Eddie is a dumb rule. And the ending where they just give up is such an unsatisfying resolution. Not to mention those scientist ladies sacrificing their lab and coworkers for their Symbiote fetish made me hate them so much, especially when Venom basically invalidates their efforts to save both of them.
The writing in that movie was brain dead. Were all of these not-Spidermen movies written in a week by the same person?
Madame Web IS great. Best comedy of the decade. Put that shit on, bring people over to watch, drink a little and it's a blast.
*The Venom movies are not good moves* 😑 they’re just slightly above Madam Webb, Morbin Time and Kraven. It was all awful. People just made excuses