Tom did offer himself up, but only because he thought he was on the chopping block already. It’s sad that he didn’t see that Shiv was pleading for him. Then again, she never told him either because lord forbid shiv show anything that resembled caring.
i largely agree with your points, but Tom did throw out a couple reactive lines of his own, and she also raised some valid concerns of her own, such as the legal issues with Mattson. before the fight, Tom tried telling her to just give him space, and he was right because it wasn't the right time to have a productive conversation
I’d say the difference between Tom and Shiv in the fight, is while they are both similar people at the end of the day. Self interested, narcissistic, etc. Tom was speaking what he believed was the truth from what he saw. It was opinions he had been suppressing for awhile, whereas Shiv argued as a Sophist. Saying whatever she could so she wasn’t the loser, so that she wasn’t hurt the most. I’d say its the performances that sold me on this opinion, that Shiv’s points (while correct sometimes) were made on the fly, and Tom had been harboring his for awhile wondering if he should say them.
I really think Gerri is disappointed by Roman. He already fired her once for his dad and then he had the audacity to do it again but while insulting her saying she isn't good at her job. I understand why Gerri is saying fuck off at this point, I think she really thought he could do better
She said she was going to get fired because of the deal, and while it didn’t show what Kendall said to her, I imagine part of the ploy was to offer her immunity against Matsson/keep her onboard.
Yes I felt that was too easy. Wouldn’t someone in her position be subject to contracts that would forbid her from sharing inside information to a competitor/outsider?
I dont think Toms statement is consciously 'rewriting history', he brought up the idea of him going to prison just to see how against it his wife would be, only for her to tacitly imply she thinks its a pretty good idea. This followed by, as you said, Tom not seeing Shiv gunning for him and even thinking she was working against him, and you've got one big miscommunicatory disaster. At least that was my reading from what I can remember, and its also probably what you mean. But I dont remember thinking Tom was offering himself up because he wanted to be helpful of 'servile', but rather that he was simply fishing for a response which might prove his wife actually loved him. So in his eyes, she was going to let him go to prison, because she barely even tried to stop the opposite from happening, again, from his pov. Lemme know if this is off.
i hear ya. there were several scene with her where he was stressing about it, and she didn't truly acknowledge his pain because she wasn't worried about it (until the final one where she snapped at him, and then went over to comfort him) she comes from a world of elites, where they dont go to prison, so that explains why she didnt expect anyone to go to jail. but Tom's not from her world. so its understandable why her indifference at times might have made Tom feel like she didnt even care
Tom's finally sticking up for himself. It's unfortunate that the fight even happened though. Tom tried to get her to just give him space, but she pressed the issue. She then voiced her concerns about Mattson and betraying her brothers, but he was too broken to acknowledge her pain, so he replied that she would be fine. And it all went downhill from there I am hoping that they get their much needed rest, and have a healthier discussion in the morning Is that just wishful thinking though? lol
@@alannahprestaynofbraavos5759 Tom and Shiv are two narcissists in a relationship. They both desperately want love from one another, and no matter what one gives, its never enough. So I’d say its not just Shiv crying wolf.
There was a conversation between Tom, Shiv, and Scott around the middle of the episode about the Gojo acquisition, and who would remain in the company. Apparently, Scott heard Tom was "going somewhere else" and told him. Tom got very affected because he doesn't want to loose his paycheck. I think that was tom's real trigger for the fight with Shiv.
Wouldn't surprise me if the India discovery is a hoax to make Kendall look bad. Shiv is horrible, she only cares about herself and thinks she's smarter than she actually is. Shiv has always wanted to be in control but she's not smart enough to gain control on her own, Tom is easy to control and that's why Shiv stayed with him but now Tom is done with it.
would be one heck of a twist if Shiv actually maneuvers for Tom to be in control, as was their original plan. i dont foresee it. tbh, i dont not foresee it either. i have no idea whats going to happen! lol im wish they would just sell to Mattson and get out. because they are so much better to each other when the business isnt involved
I was kind of dreading hearing your take on the Tom/Shiv fight because overwhelming online discourse seems to act like Tom is a saint and that shiv was the only bad guy in the relationship as if they weren't both using eachother to their own gains so I was really happy that you didnt just straight up show Tom as a poor victim of Shiv. also, I didnt realize it initially but I really miss brian cox idk i miss hearing him yell at everyone😂 would be really interested in seeing a seperate video on your take on Tom and Shiv's relationship
The most tragic thing about their relationship is that there is a lot of misunderstanding and failures of communication. That is something that they can overcome though, and it might have started with this "airing it out" session. Hopefully, they have a followup in the morning after they get some rest =))
@@alannahprestaynofbraavos5759 same lol they're both too focused on what they want rather than what the other person wants. I also think shiv might want to abort the child and who knows maybe we might get to see the overturning of roe v wade play out in succession as well since the show often takes real life events and twists them around. It would be very relevant given the current political climate.
@@bridge4 Its sadly not looking like it, seeing how pissed Tom is at the beginning of the next episode Teaser. I really hope he doesn't go scorched earth here with the Roy family. Tom is not a villain I'd like to see
honestly I trust shiv's feeling more like I think she really loves Tom and I never really trust that he actually cares about her. like she's rightfully fucked up and mistrustful from her upbringing and of course selfish which is also a survival thing in that family, but I think Toms an opportunist and now he's exhausted from the games and loosing but I'm not sure he really cares about her. its more like he's been a martyr and now he's all pissed that he hasn't been rewarded or looked after when it's like really what does he offer? - he's shit at his job and phoney with her. I think he's gonna back stab her again and then either she'll attack him or he'll find out she tried to help him out and is pregnant. either way I see them destroying each other - I guess if we're going on all the shakespeare references, they would maybe be othello. hm then maybe rom is hamlet but like where kendal is almost like the uncle looking to take the dads place.
i feared Kendal would do that a few times, but thankfully, Logan installed some new glass protective barriers. I hear ya though. Tom's scene echoed Kendal's past scenes. Scary stuff
oh mannnn, thats a great point. i had sort of written her off. would be gnarly if she came back, especially if she has gathered herself and comes back with fire
I feel bad for both and I dont at the same time. Both of them went into the marriage with their own agendas. Both of them had the opportunity to call the marriage off but found the convenience of what that brought too good to pass up. Shiv was getting a lackey and Tom, status. He knew she was broken and she knew he wanted more so they both took advantage of those things. They placated each other to get what they wanted. Shiv set the tone their wedding night and slept with someone else after but couldn't take it when she was confronted with the prospect of Tom doing it. She only wanted it to happen on her terms. Knowing this, instead of Tom at the end of season 2 leaving her, he saw the opportunity to jockey for position when Logan looked to him for input in season 3. He also schemed so he would have had assurances in case he went to jail. They used each other and now it's all out there.
im totally with ya in the "both had opprtunity to call the marriage off" bit. Greg had warned Tom, and Tom thought about it while getting dressed that day. so he could have called it off or at least spoken to her first, and he didnt
We've watched Shiv belittling Tom for 4 seasons, seeing how it all builds up in Tom and then when he finally vents she does the old bully technique "I thought you wanted me to pick on you". We see Shiv is hurt about what Tom says and like so many others just puts on her armor ready for battle. What I like about their relationship is that it is so realistic. Tom should have talked about these things early and non-confrontal like any therapist would say, but that's not how we humans work. So Tom keeps it in with the vague hope that she'll change all by herself, then when she doesn't (why would she, Tom hasn't communicated this with her) he feels betrayed and we get S3 finale. Finally he lets it all out and Shiv has never heard this side from him, she assumed he was fine with it since he didn't say anything. We are a species with both the communication of energy like other animals, but we are cursly blessed/ blessedly cursed with spoke language, and therefore we can go years masking our true emotions with our spoken language. Tbf, Tom and Shiv should have done some like psychedelic retreat, just talking would never work with them.
Matsson is cold, he's devious, and he doesn't even trust his own men. The reason he asked, "Oskar or Ebba??" is bc he planted fake stories with THEM, just like he planted the fake blood story with Shiv. This is how it will go down: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... (Matsson looks comically horrified, then laughs. He's tricked both Kendall AND Ebba into revealing their hands.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! etc, etc, and so on, and so on... And thanks for helping me smoke out Ebba. She's a tough one to crack. I really thought it was Oskar!" Anything Ebba or Oskar try to "reveal" about Mattson will be rendered null by all the b.s. he's fed them so no one will ever believe them.
I would believe this except Rome and Kendall both mention the blood thing to Ebba and she doesn’t deny it or act confused. It’s pretty clear he’s a shitty boss and weirdo. His mistrust is more that he know his team are incompetent and self-serving, and they tend to have loose lips. Not sure just how ingenious he is when he’s embarrassing himself at a party by trash talking the city he’s in and then dropping 4chan meme lines like “your numbers are gay” in a room full of stuffy old rich guys (completely misreading his audience). Matsson suspects the numbers are fishy, but that video clip probably won’t come up again because no one would really care now that the ball’s rolling
Revised Scene: This is how it will go down: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... (Ebba and Mattson smirk, triumphantly. They've tricked Kendall into revealing his hand.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! etc, etc, and so on, and so on...
My wife thinks Ebba is a plant. That it's all a ruse... there is no harrassment. There may be no "India numbers". It's entirely possible that Shiv was played. Mattson knows she's not that bright, and he appealed to her vanity and ambition, to use her as a wedge against her brothers. The show is telling us, over and over, that the foursome are actually really bad business people. They think they're hot, but they're fundamentally clueless and destructive.
That could be the case, and the actor Aleksander Skarsgard is a good enough actor to pull off that ruse, but in order for the blood and india stuff to be true, the character of Lukas (as well as Ebba) would have to be great actors too. is that part of their skill sets?
@@bridge4 Yeah, I'm not sure. I like theory but I think it's a bridge too far. I was a bit weirded out by the whole India thing, TBH. Like Ebba and Lukas would just throw around secret information to their opposition.
It’s funny that Willa gets so much animosity from the fans for being with Connor for money, while this is the exact same thing Tom has been doing with Shiv the whole time. He’s with her for money and status but somehow he’s like a fan favorite character.
I think the point is that “at least” they are honest, their marriage is an agreement openly talked and justify between Connor and Willa. In the other hand you have Tom and Shiv whose relationship is full of lies and hides.
fans dont like Willa?? really?? that shocks me. i looooove Willa. one scene that stands out was when Comfry kept trying to get Conner's jacket at Kendal's birthday party, and Willa snapped at her. Conner had the biggest smile on his face after that lol
I agree, I feel like the one piece the show is not subtle about is misogyny. The genius is that it reflects perfectly on our society. Regardless, my theory is that it’ll all come back to bite em in the end… Roman for harassing Gerri, Mattsson for harassing Ebba, Ken and Mattsson for fudging up the numbers, cruises situation, etc
When you are a woman, you go with the best offer. The sentence applies to men also.Willa, probably, was not going to get a better offer. She just has to accept Connor's furniture, which might be an easier job than Tom Wambsgans has by sitting on Shiv's. Tom got the offer of Shiv's time and being allowed to be her public other. Any other woman would be financially a step down. I have to give it to both for admitting that they are in it for the money, which is hard to overlook. Shiv and Connor know that the money is MAIN attraction.
Greg and oskar - was that another greg logan scene where oskar is initiating him? - I think maybe, since he was dancing with ebba so that means she accepts him and the next test would be if he has thick skin - I think it was a test he passed again and he's saying he thinks they hate him but I think he knows better and isn't telling Tom the truth when he says he's team kenro - he's team who ever wins/always playing all sides, but like Oskar said - he's a butcher with a smile.
unrelated, but i love when HBO rehires minor characters that they have relationships with in the past because it makes me smile to think that there are happy friendships out there (hahah im so corny). Oskar played "Lem Lemoncloak in Game of Thrones"
another theory - what if mattison doesn't actually intend on buying waystar and is really using them to negotiate a deal with another company? I think he has a big play happening and maybe this is all a distraction and game where he leaves them all fucked up. so in feb ebba is either in charge of another company or she's leaving with her golden parachute - either way that seemed like misdirect like she was saying something bad would happen but really it's prob something else.
I am starting to think the same. Mattson doesn’t really want Waystar, he is more like wanting to eliminate them as competitor. In a way Mattson also wants to blow up the agreement as Kendall but not for the same reasons. 😅
@@JotaP1n yeah or I had another idea that he maybe he does want the company but he doesn't see them as a threat cause really its between him and the board so if he makes them look bad, he can get the value lowered as well and really they're temp ceo's thinking they have more power than they really do.
I was thinking Matsson is Baiting Kendall with Gojo, he knew Kendall would go after the Failing Gojo just to beat him. Once Matsson gets the Money from the sell then he turns around and buys Pierce, a much better company than Gojo. Logan wanted Pierce and would have walked away from Gojo a failing company.
@@JotaP1n Just a guess, you know how these writers are, they will go a totally different direction next episode. Just like Tom, they make it look like he's finished, but Tom knows about all the Cruise Ship Sexual Harrassment and the Deaths, he could use against them.
Re Shiv and Tom... I think they were being almost entirely honest in their fight. Fom Tom's perspective, he truly believed Shiv had thrown him to the wolves. She did very little to convince him otherwise. Why? Power. All the children (except for Conor) use uncertainty as a weapon over people, including their loved ones. They're mercurial and cruel by nature, and by design. Tom love/hates Shiv, in spite of himself. He knows what she's about. But Shiv is his meal ticket, and Tom's version of romantic love involves nice shirts and watches and fine mansions. But Shiv does not love Tom. She doesn't even seem to really like him. (It's hard to genuinely like another person if you don't like yourself.) I think that Shiv fears that Tom -- and others -- won't give her approval. And she doesn't need to keep that approval. It's a weapon. Notice how she repeateedly throws his back in his face? For Shiv, "love" is a weapon. When Shiv doesn't get and control approval/status, we get the genuine Sad Shiv. She's upset because she knows that the things Tom said about her are true. Shiv is a child. All four of the children are just that: children. They're essentially trust-fund kids, still trying to show daddy that they're worthy, even though they all secretly hate daddy.
im with ya. the funeral could be a very important moment in their lives though. it might be the closure that Shiv and her brothers finally need to reassess and begin growing up
thats a good point. he's got to have a speech writer, right? Conner probably had a better speech prepared, but he had to pull an audible when he found out that the scandals were coming to light. so his ad-hoc speech was very impersonal, causing it to be awkwardly funny lol
I am team Tom. Shiv used Tom to her disposal. Tom loves Shiv but was always put 2nd to Logan. As dysfunctional as the dynamic is, Tom is rational for the most part, not emotionally damaged by the first gen of the Roy business. Shiv is doing exactly what Tom did in season 3, undermining and backstabbing. Tom is realizing and becoming his own person outside of Logan and Shiv.
that's intersting that you said that. i was actually reflecting on how i'd seen comments on an MMA forum, where someone said the show would be nothing without Logan. but offing him in episode 3 has allowed the rest of the story enough time to play out without feeling rushed
@@bridge4 people that Say that the show is nothing without logan are wrong. He is not even the main character ,Ken is. the show has many amazing characters , Logan was one on them. They all have interesting stories and arcs that needs to be resolved.
Definitely one of the better takes on this fight, since you actually looked back on their previous actions, as well as the context, rather than simply taking their words at face value.
Tom has become my favorite character, so I bought into most of what he said during my first watch. I'm not a night person (I actually fell asleep 40 minutes before the show aired, went through 1 REM cycle probably, and woke up when the show was 40 minutes in. so i watched it a little delayed, starting writing a script, and went to bed as usual. in the morning, i started from scratch when i wasn't as biased from my love for Tom's character and the stellar deliver of his lines I'm still probably more team Tom than team Shiv, but I'm actually pulling for her now too =))
@@gbeach85, nope! I think she always thought he was a pathetic Lil perv. Just playing him. Maybe she felt a little sorry for him at some point….. but that’s the extent of it. Lol
in some ways, he's lying to himself about stuff due to misunderstandings and insecurities. He needs to get some sleep, and also believe more in himself. Loving Shiv is fine, but Tom's got to love himself too! =))
Are the India numbers truly shaky? If I were Ebba, even if I were so horribly angry with my ex, I’m not sure I’d go blabbing to the competition without getting something out of it. If she just wanted to hurt Lukas, she could have leaked the story to the press. Everything seems too staged. From Lukas “confessing” to Shiv about his bad behavior…making himself “vulnerable” to her to draw her into a (false?) sense of intimacy that netted him backstage access without having to truly promise her anything in return. Then such a public fight at the party, being so horrible to Ebba in front of his enemies. Wouldn’t Lukas assume the Roy kids might try to “flip” Ebba now that they conveniently see with their own eyes how she’s treated and might assume she’d want revenge? And then Ebba herself, giving up damaging company secrets after a laughable attempt at empathy from Kendall. I’m not sure if I’m right to be skeptical or even what Mattsen would gain by orchestrating these leaks. Certainly the impulsive Holocaust tweet shows he might not be as smart as he thinks. I don’t know…maybe the show is trying an “Emperor has no clothes” reveal to show that this tech genius is really just an idiot with good PR who got lucky. Surely if he’s NOT actually orchestrating the whole thing and he’s truly trusting Shiv with such sensitive info, and having a completely unnecessary fight with his ex in the company of his enemies, then he’s much worse at business than any of the Roy kids, including poor delusional Connor, who has been interested in politics from a very early age.
please dont take this the wrong way. the "interested politics from a very early age" line doesnt resonate with me the way it does with so many fans. but your post had me invested. so i was in a certain headspace as i was reading. and the way way you snuck it in at the end of this post worked well. i laughed out loud lol. well played!
Somebody said below that a lot of people believe Tom is a saint in comparison to Shiv, I think this is wrong. I think what the issue is is it's rare we have this kind of relationship dynamic in television where the power imbalance is so in favor of the woman in relation to the man. Shiv has a tremendous amount of power over Tom, I mean, he even asked her for permission to kick Nate out of his own wedding in Season 1. And still the relationship would mostly survive and be relatively peaceful, but Shiv tends to sabotage it by constantly abusing the power she has over him, and not really considering the long term consequences: i.e. building up an enemy, who has the most intimate knowledge about her.
I'm upset you threw out the six pages about Tom and Shiv, that was the most powerful scene in the episode. I would've loved you to spend 20 minutes on it.
it was kind of rambly since i was just going line by line. i just uploaded a video where i dug into some of the bigger arguments though in case you're bored. im not sure its good, but i spent a good 22+ hours on it, so i tried my best lol
not sure if i said it here, but I get ramsay and myranda (game of thrones) vibes from lucas and ebba and totally don't believe she would betray him - especially that quickly to people she doesn't know well and as an introvert and even how they are together all the time. like thats def his inner inner circle and mattison is not stupid even though he's seemed it a little lately. also ken and rom are inexperienced and really find out things too easily and never do follow through.
I'm not sure I'm following the exact linkage you've got to Ramsay and Myranda. but this comment made me smile regardless. shoutout to Ramsay and Myranda!! and high level, im totally with you. Ebba has shown disgust at times (and I almost feel wrong with what I'm about to say since we are probably supposed to view their relationship as toxic), but in my head canon, I feel like they are a really healthy couple lol, it might just be because they are both good looking actors with strong personalities. so i WANT them to be happy. i dunno....
Oh it’s not a plot thing, more the vibe where you think he’s evil and she’s a victim but really she’s just as bad or worse so it’s kind of scary cause trusting her is like falling into a trap like they’re both sadists.
possible rom direction - he makes piece with gerri like maybe he say something nice at the funeral and she helps him out with kendal - they always had a weird relationship so I think he'd be able to fix it when he picks himself up and goes on the charm offense especially since people and going behind the scenes has always been his strength and its time for him to have a sort of win.
hey gina. im with you. they teased a potential plot point, but id be shocked if Roman and Gerri don't at least begin to rebuild their relationship (i guess the lawsuit plot point would become even more interesting in that case, if someone else slandered her. but is there actually time for that? i doubt it)
Shiv finally having a reality check. Just rewatched s1 and she is so clearly a horrible person. God she deserved what she got from Tom. Also, can't wait for Roman to implode.
My three theories about the India numbers: Theory 1: Matsson is cold, he's devious, and he doesn't even trust his own men. The reason he asked, "Oskar or Ebba??" is bc he planted fake stories with THEM, just like he planted the fake blood story with Shiv. Ebba got annoyed with him and told his secret bc their relationship is as tumultuous as the Roy's is with each other. Scene: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... (Matsson looks comically horrified, then laughs. He's tricked both Kendall AND Ebba into revealing their hands.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! etc, etc, and so on, and so on... And thanks for helping me smoke out Ebba. She's a tough one to crack. I really thought it was Oskar!" The End *Anything Ebba or Oskar try to "reveal" about Mattson will be rendered null by all the b.s. he's fed them, like he's fed the "blood and hair gifts" story to the investigator, so no one will ever believe them if they go public. Theory 2: Matsson is generally devious, but Ebba &Oskar are in on it, and feeding false info to Kendall &Roman FOR him. Revised Scene: This is how it will go down: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... (Ebba and Mattson smirk, triumphantly. They've tricked Kendall into revealing his hand.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! (Kendall is devastated and excuses himself to the bathroom to do cocaine.) **The boys go down in a blaze of incompetence bc they DID NOT DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH TO SUPPORT EBBA'S STORY. Theory 3: It is what it seems to be - Matsson is just a perverted IDIOT with a BIG MOUTH, and the Roys WIN. 3rd Revised Scene: This is how it will go down: Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL! Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about??? Kendall: Ebba told me.... Roman: AND we did the research. It's TRUE, man. Do you even know how many people are IN India? Matsson: What? Yeah, sure... who doesn't? (Mattson smirks, but weakly. He's beaten.) Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!! Roman: Maybe. Maybe. But we made our numbers REAL, man. No one cares if we lied bc we made them money. ... You make your own reality. My Dad said that. ***This one is my favorite.
Bedtime for Bonzo was a film, not a show, and yes, starring Ronald Reagan and you don't need me to tell you, there is the internet. Search before you write. You'll sound smarter!
lol. i thought about double checking and rewriting that line, but it was part of personal type tangent, so i wrote and said it that way intentionally as a way of trying to let people inside my experience as opposed to just delivering dry info, which is what i normally do
Gerri is awesome, so I won't fault her for her next move regardless. But I feel like she still views him like a son, so I'm not sure she's reached the point of being able to sink him. But we will see soon! =))
@@emjay5983 she's always been on the thicker side of the pendulum.....even in season one. Season one she should have lost 10 pounds.... She's an actress..... you'd think she'd be smart enough to keep weight off....that last scene of the past episode where she was in bed and couldn't sleep.....kinda disgusting. Some idiot married her (her and that wretched comic amy schumer).
Tom did offer himself up, but only because he thought he was on the chopping block already. It’s sad that he didn’t see that Shiv was pleading for him. Then again, she never told him either because lord forbid shiv show anything that resembled caring.
It's the whole problem with Shiv --- the inability to deal with her emotions and anyone else's emotions.
i largely agree with your points, but Tom did throw out a couple reactive lines of his own, and she also raised some valid concerns of her own, such as the legal issues with Mattson. before the fight, Tom tried telling her to just give him space, and he was right because it wasn't the right time to have a productive conversation
It's like 4 seasons of built up anger finally projecting out. That scene had me so gripped!! Hope Sarah and Matthew get their well deserved Emmys.
hear, hear! the passion in the deliver of some of their lines was so friggen good. they are both brilliant actors!
They did 🎉
I’d say the difference between Tom and Shiv in the fight, is while they are both similar people at the end of the day. Self interested, narcissistic, etc. Tom was speaking what he believed was the truth from what he saw. It was opinions he had been suppressing for awhile, whereas Shiv argued as a Sophist. Saying whatever she could so she wasn’t the loser, so that she wasn’t hurt the most. I’d say its the performances that sold me on this opinion, that Shiv’s points (while correct sometimes) were made on the fly, and Tom had been harboring his for awhile wondering if he should say them.
Very well put
Gerri knows her worth lol
hell yeah. i love Gerri!!
I really think Gerri is disappointed by Roman. He already fired her once for his dad and then he had the audacity to do it again but while insulting her saying she isn't good at her job. I understand why Gerri is saying fuck off at this point, I think she really thought he could do better
that line where she said she could have gotten him there was soooo good. i cant believe i forgot to mention it. good call!
It felt reaaaaaaally weird how easy Ebba gave Roman and Kendall so much critical information
She said she was going to get fired because of the deal, and while it didn’t show what Kendall said to her, I imagine part of the ploy was to offer her immunity against Matsson/keep her onboard.
Emotions are a bitch sometimes it was not unrealistic to me
Why wouldn’t she🤷🏻♀️
Way toooo convenient
Yes I felt that was too easy.
Wouldn’t someone in her position be subject to contracts that would forbid her from sharing inside information to a competitor/outsider?
Yes, #TeamTomandShiv love each other. My hope is that they come to this realization and leave Royco to raise their child and TRY to be happy.
Your balanced and nuanced breakdown of shiv/tom's fight has gained you a subscriber. Keep it coming!
thanks for that. i look forward to chatting with ya =))
I dont think Toms statement is consciously 'rewriting history', he brought up the idea of him going to prison just to see how against it his wife would be, only for her to tacitly imply she thinks its a pretty good idea. This followed by, as you said, Tom not seeing Shiv gunning for him and even thinking she was working against him, and you've got one big miscommunicatory disaster.
At least that was my reading from what I can remember, and its also probably what you mean. But I dont remember thinking Tom was offering himself up because he wanted to be helpful of 'servile', but rather that he was simply fishing for a response which might prove his wife actually loved him. So in his eyes, she was going to let him go to prison, because she barely even tried to stop the opposite from happening, again, from his pov.
Lemme know if this is off.
i hear ya. there were several scene with her where he was stressing about it, and she didn't truly acknowledge his pain because she wasn't worried about it (until the final one where she snapped at him, and then went over to comfort him)
she comes from a world of elites, where they dont go to prison, so that explains why she didnt expect anyone to go to jail. but Tom's not from her world. so its understandable why her indifference at times might have made Tom feel like she didnt even care
I was loving Tom tearing into Shiv
Tom's finally sticking up for himself. It's unfortunate that the fight even happened though. Tom tried to get her to just give him space, but she pressed the issue. She then voiced her concerns about Mattson and betraying her brothers, but he was too broken to acknowledge her pain, so he replied that she would be fine. And it all went downhill from there
I am hoping that they get their much needed rest, and have a healthier discussion in the morning
Is that just wishful thinking though? lol
@@bridge4yes, lol. There were quite a few things said that you really can’t take back. Especially the mother thing. Tom’s a savage
@@bridge4 was Tom too broken, or did he just not believe her? Kind of like the boy who cried wolf?
I hope Tom kills (bussiness wise) Shiv. She deserves it.
@@alannahprestaynofbraavos5759 Tom and Shiv are two narcissists in a relationship. They both desperately want love from one another, and no matter what one gives, its never enough. So I’d say its not just Shiv crying wolf.
There was a conversation between Tom, Shiv, and Scott around the middle of the episode about the Gojo acquisition, and who would remain in the company. Apparently, Scott heard Tom was "going somewhere else" and told him. Tom got very affected because he doesn't want to loose his paycheck. I think that was tom's real trigger for the fight with Shiv.
i hear ya. that was Tom's primary concern for sure. fear of being fired and sadness that his wife just laughed it off
Wouldn't surprise me if the India discovery is a hoax to make Kendall look bad. Shiv is horrible, she only cares about herself and thinks she's smarter than she actually is. Shiv has always wanted to be in control but she's not smart enough to gain control on her own, Tom is easy to control and that's why Shiv stayed with him but now Tom is done with it.
how would india be a hoax, Ebba talked to the brothers and Mattson also reluctantly admitted to Shiv
would be one heck of a twist if Shiv actually maneuvers for Tom to be in control, as was their original plan. i dont foresee it. tbh, i dont not foresee it either. i have no idea whats going to happen! lol
im wish they would just sell to Mattson and get out. because they are so much better to each other when the business isnt involved
I was kind of dreading hearing your take on the Tom/Shiv fight because overwhelming online discourse seems to act like Tom is a saint and that shiv was the only bad guy in the relationship as if they weren't both using eachother to their own gains so I was really happy that you didnt just straight up show Tom as a poor victim of Shiv. also, I didnt realize it initially but I really miss brian cox idk i miss hearing him yell at everyone😂
would be really interested in seeing a seperate video on your take on Tom and Shiv's relationship
The most tragic thing about their relationship is that there is a lot of misunderstanding and failures of communication. That is something that they can overcome though, and it might have started with this "airing it out" session. Hopefully, they have a followup in the morning after they get some rest =))
@@bridge4 they are both narcissists. I can’t see it working.
@@alannahprestaynofbraavos5759 same lol they're both too focused on what they want rather than what the other person wants. I also think shiv might want to abort the child and who knows maybe we might get to see the overturning of roe v wade play out in succession as well since the show often takes real life events and twists them around. It would be very relevant given the current political climate.
@@bridge4 Its sadly not looking like it, seeing how pissed Tom is at the beginning of the next episode Teaser. I really hope he doesn't go scorched earth here with the Roy family. Tom is not a villain I'd like to see
honestly I trust shiv's feeling more like I think she really loves Tom and I never really trust that he actually cares about her. like she's rightfully fucked up and mistrustful from her upbringing and of course selfish which is also a survival thing in that family, but I think Toms an opportunist and now he's exhausted from the games and loosing but I'm not sure he really cares about her. its more like he's been a martyr and now he's all pissed that he hasn't been rewarded or looked after when it's like really what does he offer? - he's shit at his job and phoney with her. I think he's gonna back stab her again and then either she'll attack him or he'll find out she tried to help him out and is pregnant. either way I see them destroying each other - I guess if we're going on all the shakespeare references, they would maybe be othello. hm then maybe rom is hamlet but like where kendal is almost like the uncle looking to take the dads place.
I was deadset Tom was going to jump off that balcony
i feared Kendal would do that a few times, but thankfully, Logan installed some new glass protective barriers. I hear ya though. Tom's scene echoed Kendal's past scenes. Scary stuff
Thanks for linking those two fights between Tom and Shiv
one was technically a love making scene lol. granted, Shiv was having more fun than Tom
It’s been a few weeks that we haven’t heard from Kerry, and I can’t help to wonder if she will show up in the funeral episode 🙈
oh mannnn, thats a great point. i had sort of written her off. would be gnarly if she came back, especially if she has gathered herself and comes back with fire
Shiv loves Tom and treats tom in the same way that Tom treats Gregg.
I feel bad for both and I dont at the same time. Both of them went into the marriage with their own agendas. Both of them had the opportunity to call the marriage off but found the convenience of what that brought too good to pass up. Shiv was getting a lackey and Tom, status. He knew she was broken and she knew he wanted more so they both took advantage of those things. They placated each other to get what they wanted. Shiv set the tone their wedding night and slept with someone else after but couldn't take it when she was confronted with the prospect of Tom doing it. She only wanted it to happen on her terms. Knowing this, instead of Tom at the end of season 2 leaving her, he saw the opportunity to jockey for position when Logan looked to him for input in season 3. He also schemed so he would have had assurances in case he went to jail. They used each other and now it's all out there.
im totally with ya in the "both had opprtunity to call the marriage off" bit. Greg had warned Tom, and Tom thought about it while getting dressed that day. so he could have called it off or at least spoken to her first, and he didnt
We've watched Shiv belittling Tom for 4 seasons, seeing how it all builds up in Tom and then when he finally vents she does the old bully technique "I thought you wanted me to pick on you". We see Shiv is hurt about what Tom says and like so many others just puts on her armor ready for battle.
What I like about their relationship is that it is so realistic. Tom should have talked about these things early and non-confrontal like any therapist would say, but that's not how we humans work. So Tom keeps it in with the vague hope that she'll change all by herself, then when she doesn't (why would she, Tom hasn't communicated this with her) he feels betrayed and we get S3 finale. Finally he lets it all out and Shiv has never heard this side from him, she assumed he was fine with it since he didn't say anything.
We are a species with both the communication of energy like other animals, but we are cursly blessed/ blessedly cursed with spoke language, and therefore we can go years masking our true emotions with our spoken language. Tbf, Tom and Shiv should have done some like psychedelic retreat, just talking would never work with them.
awesome post!!!
Matsson is cold, he's devious, and he doesn't even trust his own men. The reason he asked, "Oskar or Ebba??" is bc he planted fake stories with THEM, just like he planted the fake blood story with Shiv.
This is how it will go down:
Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL!
Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about???
Kendall: Ebba told me....
(Matsson looks comically horrified, then laughs. He's tricked both Kendall AND Ebba into revealing their hands.)
Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!!
etc, etc, and so on, and so on... And thanks for helping me smoke out Ebba. She's a tough one to crack. I really thought it was Oskar!"
Anything Ebba or Oskar try to "reveal" about Mattson will be rendered null by all the b.s. he's fed them so no one will ever believe them.
I would believe this except Rome and Kendall both mention the blood thing to Ebba and she doesn’t deny it or act confused. It’s pretty clear he’s a shitty boss and weirdo.
His mistrust is more that he know his team are incompetent and self-serving, and they tend to have loose lips.
Not sure just how ingenious he is when he’s embarrassing himself at a party by trash talking the city he’s in and then dropping 4chan meme lines like “your numbers are gay” in a room full of stuffy old rich guys (completely misreading his audience).
Matsson suspects the numbers are fishy, but that video clip probably won’t come up again because no one would really care now that the ball’s rolling
@@YungM.D. DANG IT. You're right. You destroyed my theory. here we go, then:
Revised Scene:
This is how it will go down:
Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL!
Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about???
Kendall: Ebba told me....
(Ebba and Mattson smirk, triumphantly. They've tricked Kendall into revealing his hand.)
Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!!
etc, etc, and so on, and so on...
But that's prolly wrong, too, now.
Wait, wonder how anyone besides Shiv found out Matsson's been sending EBBA that stuff???
My wife thinks Ebba is a plant. That it's all a ruse... there is no harrassment.
There may be no "India numbers".
It's entirely possible that Shiv was played.
Mattson knows she's not that bright, and he appealed to her vanity and ambition, to use her as a wedge against her brothers.
The show is telling us, over and over, that the foursome are actually really bad business people. They think they're hot, but they're fundamentally clueless and destructive.
That could be the case, and the actor Aleksander Skarsgard is a good enough actor to pull off that ruse, but in order for the blood and india stuff to be true, the character of Lukas (as well as Ebba) would have to be great actors too. is that part of their skill sets?
@@bridge4 Yeah, I'm not sure.
I like theory but I think it's a bridge too far.
I was a bit weirded out by the whole India thing, TBH. Like Ebba and Lukas would just throw around secret information to their opposition.
It’s funny that Willa gets so much animosity from the fans for being with Connor for money, while this is the exact same thing Tom has been doing with Shiv the whole time. He’s with her for money and status but somehow he’s like a fan favorite character.
I think the point is that “at least” they are honest, their marriage is an agreement openly talked and justify between Connor and Willa. In the other hand you have Tom and Shiv whose relationship is full of lies and hides.
fans dont like Willa?? really?? that shocks me. i looooove Willa. one scene that stands out was when Comfry kept trying to get Conner's jacket at Kendal's birthday party, and Willa snapped at her. Conner had the biggest smile on his face after that lol
I agree, I feel like the one piece the show is not subtle about is misogyny. The genius is that it reflects perfectly on our society. Regardless, my theory is that it’ll all come back to bite em in the end… Roman for harassing Gerri, Mattsson for harassing Ebba, Ken and Mattsson for fudging up the numbers, cruises situation, etc
When you are a woman, you go with the best offer. The sentence applies to men also.Willa, probably, was not going to get a better offer. She just has to accept Connor's furniture, which might be an easier job than Tom Wambsgans has by sitting on Shiv's.
Tom got the offer of Shiv's time and being allowed to be her public other. Any other woman would be financially a step down. I have to give it to both for admitting that they are in it for the money, which is hard to overlook. Shiv and Connor know that the money is MAIN attraction.
Greg and oskar - was that another greg logan scene where oskar is initiating him? - I think maybe, since he was dancing with ebba so that means she accepts him and the next test would be if he has thick skin - I think it was a test he passed again and he's saying he thinks they hate him but I think he knows better and isn't telling Tom the truth when he says he's team kenro - he's team who ever wins/always playing all sides, but like Oskar said - he's a butcher with a smile.
unrelated, but i love when HBO rehires minor characters that they have relationships with in the past because it makes me smile to think that there are happy friendships out there (hahah im so corny). Oskar played "Lem Lemoncloak in Game of Thrones"
another theory - what if mattison doesn't actually intend on buying waystar and is really using them to negotiate a deal with another company? I think he has a big play happening and maybe this is all a distraction and game where he leaves them all fucked up. so in feb ebba is either in charge of another company or she's leaving with her golden parachute - either way that seemed like misdirect like she was saying something bad would happen but really it's prob something else.
I am starting to think the same. Mattson doesn’t really want Waystar, he is more like wanting to eliminate them as competitor. In a way Mattson also wants to blow up the agreement as Kendall but not for the same reasons. 😅
@@JotaP1n yeah or I had another idea that he maybe he does want the company but he doesn't see them as a threat cause really its between him and the board so if he makes them look bad, he can get the value lowered as well and really they're temp ceo's thinking they have more power than they really do.
I was thinking Matsson is Baiting Kendall with Gojo, he knew Kendall would go after the Failing Gojo just to beat him. Once Matsson gets the Money from the sell then he turns around and buys Pierce, a much better company than Gojo. Logan wanted Pierce and would have walked away from Gojo a failing company.
@@lestonthompson8495 that makes a lot of sense!
@@JotaP1n Just a guess, you know how these writers are, they will go a totally different direction next episode. Just like Tom, they make it look like he's finished, but Tom knows about all the Cruise Ship Sexual Harrassment and the Deaths, he could use against them.
Re Shiv and Tom... I think they were being almost entirely honest in their fight.
Fom Tom's perspective, he truly believed Shiv had thrown him to the wolves. She did very little to convince him otherwise. Why? Power. All the children (except for Conor) use uncertainty as a weapon over people, including their loved ones. They're mercurial and cruel by nature, and by design.
Tom love/hates Shiv, in spite of himself. He knows what she's about. But Shiv is his meal ticket, and Tom's version of romantic love involves nice shirts and watches and fine mansions.
But Shiv does not love Tom.
She doesn't even seem to really like him. (It's hard to genuinely like another person if you don't like yourself.)
I think that Shiv fears that Tom -- and others -- won't give her approval.
And she doesn't need to keep that approval. It's a weapon. Notice how she repeateedly throws his back in his face? For Shiv, "love" is a weapon.
When Shiv doesn't get and control approval/status, we get the genuine Sad Shiv.
She's upset because she knows that the things Tom said about her are true.
Shiv is a child. All four of the children are just that: children.
They're essentially trust-fund kids, still trying to show daddy that they're worthy, even though they all secretly hate daddy.
im with ya. the funeral could be a very important moment in their lives though. it might be the closure that Shiv and her brothers finally need to reassess and begin growing up
@@bridge4 Indeed. Though I'm fully expecting Roman to go full Roman on it though!
I never understood why Conner who had already decided to run didn’t have a speechwriter on his team to write MO’s eulogy.
thats a good point. he's got to have a speech writer, right?
Conner probably had a better speech prepared, but he had to pull an audible when he found out that the scandals were coming to light. so his ad-hoc speech was very impersonal, causing it to be awkwardly funny lol
your breakdowns are the best
i dunno about that, but i put a lot of time into them, so i appreciate the kind words =)))
I am team Tom. Shiv used Tom to her disposal. Tom loves Shiv but was always put 2nd to Logan. As dysfunctional as the dynamic is, Tom is rational for the most part, not emotionally damaged by the first gen of the Roy business. Shiv is doing exactly what Tom did in season 3, undermining and backstabbing. Tom is realizing and becoming his own person outside of Logan and Shiv.
oh man i hope the show ends with Greg saying goodbye to all the viewers.
The series ends with Greg firing us
lol well played
that's intersting that you said that. i was actually reflecting on how i'd seen comments on an MMA forum, where someone said the show would be nothing without Logan. but offing him in episode 3 has allowed the rest of the story enough time to play out without feeling rushed
@@bridge4 people that Say that the show is nothing without logan are wrong. He is not even the main character ,Ken is. the show has many amazing characters , Logan was one on them. They all have interesting stories and arcs that needs to be resolved.
Great video, awesome editing work!
Oscar Lemoncloak 😂 maybe the Brotherhood and the Hound will make an appearance
Tom is such a wuss that he’s like “MAYBE” you shouldn’t be a mother. Sad!
lol, he's a softy for sure
Definitely one of the better takes on this fight, since you actually looked back on their previous actions, as well as the context, rather than simply taking their words at face value.
Tom has become my favorite character, so I bought into most of what he said during my first watch. I'm not a night person (I actually fell asleep 40 minutes before the show aired, went through 1 REM cycle probably, and woke up when the show was 40 minutes in. so i watched it a little delayed, starting writing a script, and went to bed as usual. in the morning, i started from scratch when i wasn't as biased from my love for Tom's character and the stellar deliver of his lines
I'm still probably more team Tom than team Shiv, but I'm actually pulling for her now too =))
Look up Bonzo goes to Bitburg, Reagan was 100% called Bonzo. Good catch.
the Ramones! (i dont think i know that song) the second verse has nods to some topics of this season so far\
@@bridge4 the alternate song title is “my brain is hanging upside down” because joey didn’t want to upset dee dee, who was a Reaganite.
Gerri doesn't care about Roman anymore.
Did she ever really? I’m genuinely asking
@@gbeach85, nope! I think she always thought he was a pathetic Lil perv. Just playing him. Maybe she felt a little sorry for him at some point….. but that’s the extent of it. Lol
thats interesting that y'all see their relationship so differently. my take (which could be way off), is that she loves the weirdo like a son
@@bridge4, could be! 🤷♀️We shall see! Love this show. Sunday can’t come soon enough.
@@bridge4 I agree but only because my mom also would give me handjobs
please do break down their talking points!! re: shiv and tom
omggg you actually did! you're the best
Tom is such a liar!!😢
in some ways, he's lying to himself about stuff due to misunderstandings and insecurities. He needs to get some sleep, and also believe more in himself. Loving Shiv is fine, but Tom's got to love himself too! =))
Are the India numbers truly shaky? If I were Ebba, even if I were so horribly angry with my ex, I’m not sure I’d go blabbing to the competition without getting something out of it. If she just wanted to hurt Lukas, she could have leaked the story to the press.
Everything seems too staged. From Lukas “confessing” to Shiv about his bad behavior…making himself “vulnerable” to her to draw her into a (false?) sense of intimacy that netted him backstage access without having to truly promise her anything in return. Then such a public fight at the party, being so horrible to Ebba in front of his enemies. Wouldn’t Lukas assume the Roy kids might try to “flip” Ebba now that they conveniently see with their own eyes how she’s treated and might assume she’d want revenge? And then Ebba herself, giving up damaging company secrets after a laughable attempt
at empathy from Kendall.
I’m not sure if I’m right to be skeptical or even what Mattsen would gain by orchestrating these leaks. Certainly the impulsive Holocaust tweet shows he might not be as smart as he thinks. I don’t know…maybe the show is trying an “Emperor has no clothes” reveal to show that this tech genius is really just an idiot with good PR who got lucky. Surely if he’s NOT actually orchestrating the whole thing and he’s truly trusting Shiv with such sensitive info, and having a completely unnecessary fight with his ex in the company of his enemies, then he’s much worse at business than any of the Roy kids, including poor delusional Connor, who has been interested in politics from a very early age.
please dont take this the wrong way. the "interested politics from a very early age" line doesnt resonate with me the way it does with so many fans. but your post had me invested. so i was in a certain headspace as i was reading. and the way way you snuck it in at the end of this post worked well. i laughed out loud lol. well played!
Somebody said below that a lot of people believe Tom is a saint in comparison to Shiv, I think this is wrong. I think what the issue is is it's rare we have this kind of relationship dynamic in television where the power imbalance is so in favor of the woman in relation to the man. Shiv has a tremendous amount of power over Tom, I mean, he even asked her for permission to kick Nate out of his own wedding in Season 1. And still the relationship would mostly survive and be relatively peaceful, but Shiv tends to sabotage it by constantly abusing the power she has over him, and not really considering the long term consequences: i.e. building up an enemy, who has the most intimate knowledge about her.
I'm upset you threw out the six pages about Tom and Shiv, that was the most powerful scene in the episode. I would've loved you to spend 20 minutes on it.
it was kind of rambly since i was just going line by line. i just uploaded a video where i dug into some of the bigger arguments though in case you're bored. im not sure its good, but i spent a good 22+ hours on it, so i tried my best lol
Conner and Willa have the healthiest marriage in the show. At least they get each other's input and have a level of respect.
not sure if i said it here, but I get ramsay and myranda (game of thrones) vibes from lucas and ebba and totally don't believe she would betray him - especially that quickly to people she doesn't know well and as an introvert and even how they are together all the time. like thats def his inner inner circle and mattison is not stupid even though he's seemed it a little lately. also ken and rom are inexperienced and really find out things too easily and never do follow through.
I'm not sure I'm following the exact linkage you've got to Ramsay and Myranda. but this comment made me smile regardless. shoutout to Ramsay and Myranda!!
and high level, im totally with you. Ebba has shown disgust at times (and I almost feel wrong with what I'm about to say since we are probably supposed to view their relationship as toxic), but in my head canon, I feel like they are a really healthy couple
lol, it might just be because they are both good looking actors with strong personalities. so i WANT them to be happy. i dunno....
Oh it’s not a plot thing, more the vibe where you think he’s evil and she’s a victim but really she’s just as bad or worse so it’s kind of scary cause trusting her is like falling into a trap like they’re both sadists.
Succession is not GOT
Bridge the gap!
possible rom direction - he makes piece with gerri like maybe he say something nice at the funeral and she helps him out with kendal - they always had a weird relationship so I think he'd be able to fix it when he picks himself up and goes on the charm offense especially since people and going behind the scenes has always been his strength and its time for him to have a sort of win.
hey gina. im with you. they teased a potential plot point, but id be shocked if Roman and Gerri don't at least begin to rebuild their relationship (i guess the lawsuit plot point would become even more interesting in that case, if someone else slandered her. but is there actually time for that? i doubt it)
Yeah maybe it’s wishful thinking but I just want rom and Gerri back to semi caring about each other. Like the siblings all deserve a little love ha
Shiv finally having a reality check. Just rewatched s1 and she is so clearly a horrible person. God she deserved what she got from Tom.
Also, can't wait for Roman to implode.
You think Roman is going to implode?!?! How so??
If the roles were reversed the same people in his comments section will also root for shiv if she outburst like Tom
My three theories about the India numbers:
Theory 1:
Matsson is cold, he's devious, and he doesn't even trust his own men. The reason he asked, "Oskar or Ebba??" is bc he planted fake stories with THEM, just like he planted the fake blood story with Shiv. Ebba got annoyed with him and told his secret bc their relationship is as tumultuous as the Roy's is with each other.
Scene:
Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL!
Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about???
Kendall: Ebba told me....
(Matsson looks comically horrified, then laughs. He's tricked both Kendall AND Ebba into revealing their hands.)
Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!!
etc, etc, and so on, and so on... And thanks for helping me smoke out Ebba. She's a tough one to crack. I really thought it was Oskar!"
The End
*Anything Ebba or Oskar try to "reveal" about Mattson will be rendered null by all the b.s. he's fed them, like he's fed the "blood and hair gifts" story to the investigator, so no one will ever believe them if they go public.
Theory 2:
Matsson is generally devious, but Ebba &Oskar are in on it, and feeding false info to Kendall &Roman FOR him.
Revised Scene:
This is how it will go down:
Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL!
Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about???
Kendall: Ebba told me....
(Ebba and Mattson smirk, triumphantly. They've tricked Kendall into revealing his hand.)
Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!!
(Kendall is devastated and excuses himself to the bathroom to do cocaine.)
**The boys go down in a blaze of incompetence bc they DID NOT DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH TO SUPPORT EBBA'S STORY.
Theory 3:
It is what it seems to be - Matsson is just a perverted IDIOT with a BIG MOUTH, and the Roys WIN.
3rd Revised Scene:
This is how it will go down:
Kendall: Mattson's numbers are BULL!
Mattson: What my numbers are SOLID. What are ypu talking about???
Kendall: Ebba told me....
Roman: AND we did the research. It's TRUE, man. Do you even know how many people are IN India?
Matsson: What? Yeah, sure... who doesn't?
(Mattson smirks, but weakly. He's beaten.)
Mattson: You wanna talk about NUMBERS???? How about YOUR numbers on Living+??? You think we wouldnt see that edit? That's what we DO!!! Heck, it wasn't even very GOOD! How 2002 of you!!!
Roman: Maybe. Maybe. But we made our numbers REAL, man. No one cares if we lied bc we made them money.
...
You make your own reality. My Dad said that.
***This one is my favorite.
Bro…you got to give us those 2 pages/6 minutes on Tom & Shiv. Not worthy.
Bedtime for Bonzo was a film, not a show, and yes, starring Ronald Reagan and you don't need me to tell you, there is the internet. Search before you write. You'll sound smarter!
lol. i thought about double checking and rewriting that line, but it was part of personal type tangent, so i wrote and said it that way intentionally as a way of trying to let people inside my experience as opposed to just delivering dry info, which is what i normally do
@@bridge4 well, words are just complicated air flow, right? ;)
B...
“It was great to see Rava”?? Like Why…
Gerri is out for Gerri. What serves her interest?
Of course she’d flip on Roman.
Gerri is awesome, so I won't fault her for her next move regardless. But I feel like she still views him like a son, so I'm not sure she's reached the point of being able to sink him. But we will see soon! =))
The show is still quality but its not the same without brian cox.
Gynocentric Review
F**king idiot ! There were female writers in this show !
Shiv needs to lose 20 pounds
Bruh she just had a baby irl
@@YungM.D.
bruh....she needs to lose 20 lbs.
She was actually pregnant while they were filming. I think she might be due this month.
@@emjay5983
she's always been on the thicker side of the pendulum.....even in season one. Season one she should have lost 10 pounds....
She's an actress..... you'd think she'd be smart enough to keep weight off....that last scene of the past episode where she was in bed and couldn't sleep.....kinda disgusting. Some idiot married her (her and that wretched comic amy schumer).
You’re gross