Everest 1996: The First Two Hours

แชร์
ฝัง
  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ธ.ค. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 77

  • @michaeltracy2356
    @michaeltracy2356  24 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Which "mistake" in Into Thin Air is the worst? www.youtube.com/@michaeltracy2356/community

  • @rabarbarum
    @rabarbarum 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +73

    Funny how Into Thin Air blames everything - Yasuko’s “inexperience”, Sandy Pittman’s coffee maker, Anatoli’s oxygen, even the wrath of Sagarmatha herself angered by people having sex in camp 2 - rather than look at the actual contributing factors, which are oxygen logistics, team rivalry and Krakauer’s own presence acting as a catalyst for Fischer and Hall’s bad decisions.

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  24 วันที่ผ่านมา +29

      That pretty much sums it up.

    • @EZ-df1cm
      @EZ-df1cm 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

      "Krakauer’s own presence acting as a catalyst for Fischer and Hall’s bad decisions" This detail is such a major factor in the whole saga and has been glossed over in most discussions. This would suit Krakauer and Outside magazine just fine, as it could potentially raise some deeper questions.

    • @p2g307
      @p2g307 19 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      I do not believe JK is in a position to reasonably speak to the impact of his presence and the rivalry... Possibly in retrospect with significant distance from the event, but certainly not in the period when he wrote the book. IMO, the ill intent and motivation of JK consistently mentioned in these vids and comments is exaggerated, I do hope he addresses the reasonable criticisms though.

    • @NoPitBullLeftBehind
      @NoPitBullLeftBehind 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      And Yasuko and Pittman had also completed 6 of the 7 summits, also Pittman had been climbing since she was I believe 12. I have never understood how Pittman's climbing experience is always down played.

    • @EZ-df1cm
      @EZ-df1cm 16 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@NoPitBullLeftBehind I would guess many of the people bagging her have no idea what life in the mountains is like. Even if she brought a yak load of luxuries, she is still living the camp life, and climbing on her own two feet. The often told image of her being carried on a litter to base camp then hauled up hills; is crap and needs to be challenged.

  • @julierak343
    @julierak343 21 วันที่ผ่านมา +17

    Julie here, the author of False Summit. Thank you for holding Krakauer to account. It's overdue. He has had a chance to behave responsibly and he has not yet done so.

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  21 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Good to see you. Thanks for dropping by.

    • @QED_
      @QED_ 18 วันที่ผ่านมา

      props

  • @pachi2800
    @pachi2800 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +26

    I've been so invested on everest for months now , idky I'm so hooked on these stories. Ty for always sharing your views

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  24 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

      Thanks for slogging it through. This video is a little dry, but it provides the best evidence that Krakauer's story is not only complete fiction but a deliberately constructed false narrative.

    • @Bob31415
      @Bob31415 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      I wish I had known that before buying the book.

  • @BHSNMrAdams
    @BHSNMrAdams 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

    Even by the standards of this channel, this is amazing research. Krakauer's switch to Adventure Consultants is almost like the jenga piece that ultimately brought the whole thing down. Not that it was his fault, but that clearly imbalanced both the material (oxygen) and political (rivalry between Hall and Fischer) situations that day. Even then it took mutliple additional steps to end up with bodies all over the mountain -- a sherpa turning around, a series of bad decisions, and of course the onset of a terrible storm -- but it seems likely that things would have turned our differently had Krakauer stayed with Mountain Madness. Again, that doesn't make it his fault, but it probably explains why his version of events is so different from others, and so inaccurate. A previous video shows him to have acted dubiously with regard to oxygen himself, which just adds to the sense that he has done all he can to deflect the kind of scrutiny he is getting here.

    • @maxcoldest7196
      @maxcoldest7196 24 วันที่ผ่านมา

      But after it was over he rolled up a couple of " fatties" to make sure he remembered ALL the details😑

  • @mapleleaf902
    @mapleleaf902 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    TY for the clarification of "Into thin Air" I did read this book as I was a former backcountry backpacker and harsh winter camper. I appreciate the ppl who enjoy this sport and challenge.

  • @jakual339
    @jakual339 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +8

    Another great video; I appreciate the extra detail you add to make it possible for non-climbers to follow along easily with the logic. I've definitely learned a lot about this particular incident through your videos, but also more generally about what kinds of details to pay attention to when reading accounts about climbing, when checking whether an account is trustworthy, or whether someone is trying to deceive me.

  • @reminded
    @reminded 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

    I’m glad that people are finally turning a more critical eye toward Krakauer’s narrative. It’s so hard to learn about this disaster in a way that doesn’t rely on his narrative as being the definitively correct one despite how many other accounts have since been published that contradict his.

    • @amyepstein4868
      @amyepstein4868 9 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      You hit the nail on the head when you wrote how difficult it was to rely on this book to learn about this disaster.
      Sad and scary that people read the insults and accusations of those he was so obviously biased against...and read this as if it was truth.😵‍💫🤯

  • @teripittman
    @teripittman 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I think the problem, for some folks, is that you have to read several accounts to discover the issues Into Thin Air. The more accounts I read, the more confusing it gets. Ithink I need a chart on the wall :) I appreciate the work you do on these videos. They focus on critical items I tend to overlook.

  • @JohnDavidHays
    @JohnDavidHays 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +24

    Isn’t it interesting how so many “mysteries” are not so mysterious when the “material culture,” in this case oxygen bottles, are examined in context.

    • @azteca8037
      @azteca8037 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      I love that someone details this as much as this channel has continuously

    • @henryplantagenet219
      @henryplantagenet219 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      It’s not about heroic deeds, it’s all about logistics;-)

  • @TheMjp16
    @TheMjp16 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Another riveting video! Thank you 👍🏾.

  • @TheSaxon.
    @TheSaxon. 25 วันที่ผ่านมา +22

    Krakauer's new revised edition may top 500 pages. 😂

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  25 วันที่ผ่านมา +27

      He should just publish Scott Fischer's photos. They tell the accurate story.

    • @Angelsdemons679
      @Angelsdemons679 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Imo, he should let sleeping dogs lie.. Don't open a can of worms. ... He will be ridiculed even more. The readers have seen through his tricks and lies and mirages... He is not the only source of information presently as he was in the past.

    • @HELPMYCAPSLOCKISSTUCK
      @HELPMYCAPSLOCKISSTUCK 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      @@Angelsdemons679 what does he care? he's laughing all the way to the bank while opening royalty checks for life

    • @OIICE
      @OIICE 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Michael, what would have prevented MM from just giving those extra bottles to AC (besides rivalry) for Krakauer’s use? I can’t imagine that neither Fischer nor Hall wouldn’t have realize this at base camp. From what all I have read about Scott Fischer, he was a very giving and caring person. I would appreciate your thoughts.

    • @stormtrooper9404
      @stormtrooper9404 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      @@OIICENothing 🤷🏼
      MM could have simply resold those bottles to AC, as is the usual practice there.
      But you aren't listening carefully..
      The problem is not the number of bottles, but their carrying up to the South Summit.
      AC didn't had enough sherpas for that task to begin with..
      So Rob obviously had made a shamble of a plan, pushing with less and gambling that they would made it somehow 🤷🏼

  • @martybaggenmusic
    @martybaggenmusic 19 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Michael... in spite of the fact that that highest peak I've probably been on is the hill where my parents' house was, I am completely drawn in to the mountaineering sagas, many of which you so aptly describe. If I could snap my fingers, somehow there would be an animation of all the moving parts of this particular venture from 1996. In fact, an animation of each different version would be an extraordinary method for visually demonstrating the discrepancies. Your style and attention to detail would lend itself to virtually any other genre and I wish you had, and probably will ultimately attain, 1M subscribers.

  • @shewearsfunnyhat
    @shewearsfunnyhat 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Thank you understanding the oxygen situation has helped me better understand what was going on.

  • @kensilverstone1656
    @kensilverstone1656 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    The oxygen bottles, as you have described several times, are the key to the failure of this mission and the death of the experienced guides. Other commentators and writers seem to ignore the critical roles of the oxygen bottles and exactly how many were present at the South Summit and how full, or not full, they were. I am also convinced by your facts and logic that "Into Thin Air" is not a reliable record of a number of key items.

  • @kamakaziozzie3038
    @kamakaziozzie3038 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    Another Micheal Tracy video dropped, gotta see what’s new ⚡️

  • @eric-wb7gj
    @eric-wb7gj 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    TY Michael 🙏🙏

  • @ultramarinetoo
    @ultramarinetoo 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +22

    "Follow the money" becomes "follow the O2" on Everest.
    @Michael Tracy: can you please put all these videos on a playlist so they can just run on?

  • @wakeizland
    @wakeizland 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    I believe Scott Fischer was unwell on summit day, had been sick and was moving slowly. Not sure if he could have taken the lead with his team that day, even if Hall had asked him.

  • @dmdebruijn
    @dmdebruijn 22 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Can we have a playlist for everest 1996

  • @elektrenai219
    @elektrenai219 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Just read Krakauer's book Michael.After watching your vids for the past year I have to say the book seems like a fairytale 🧚‍♀

  • @azteca8037
    @azteca8037 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    I always believed Krakauer stole Yasuko's oxygen while they were alone and knew they were running out fast and he left her making her believe he helped with her switch tanks but stole at least the only "full" one left at the cache.
    Perhaps.
    Either way, he abandoned her. But i understand under those circumstances i suppose its inevitable to happen thats why i stay off mountains.

  • @FloydyBB
    @FloydyBB 24 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Hello Michael, another great video.
    Michael , have you watched Thom Pollard's recent Q&A video? I think he indirectly refers to you, this was on the back of me questioning if he took a photo of Mallory's face, which if I'm honest I can't figure out his answer. Your thoughts would be appreciated. Best Wishes.

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  24 วันที่ผ่านมา +14

      I contacted the reporter that he originally told he took the photos to. That reporter didn't have his original notes as it was years ago, but stated he would not have written it if Pollard had not told it to him.
      Thom's entire channel is based around being "attacked" by people spreading "lies." I don't really get into all his highly questionable statements because at this point he has no credibility. If he has some photos or videos he wants to release, then great, I hope he does. But other than that, his only value is comic relief -- for which he provides plenty.

    • @ESCAPEGOAT.
      @ESCAPEGOAT. 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @FloydyBB I have seen that stream live, first i thought he would ignore your question. His answers regarding those things are vague wishy-washy, often referring to his upcoming book as if he will answer all things there, what i highly doubt.

    • @FloydyBB
      @FloydyBB 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      ​@@ESCAPEGOAT. I've gone back and listened again to the recording from Thom's Q&A. The question asked was did he take a photo of Mallory's face. Thom's response was 'There are no pictures broadcast or no photograph exists of his face" As I understand, Thom was the commissioned photo/videographer on that expedition. Mallory's body had been examined and buried days prior by Anker et al, then Pollard (and another whose name escapes me) exhumed the body from the temporary burial site for Thom to then lift the body to go underneath it to in order to look at his face. Why go to such lengths if you aren't recording any images of that moment.

  • @jeffreychandler8418
    @jeffreychandler8418 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    my favorite conspiracy is that Jon K. the well known journalist, just happened to witness one of the most tragic mount everest stories, and had zero influence in that :)

  • @windmilldoc
    @windmilldoc 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Michael, you have shown the photo of you climbing the snow pyramid just below the summit, but have you done a full video on your own climb?
    Thanks.

  • @dustinandtarynwolfe5540
    @dustinandtarynwolfe5540 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I wish there was a way to watch these in order. I always run to the end of a video that has two parts then have no clue how to find the next in the series.

  • @mikeellis4345
    @mikeellis4345 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +7

    So a non paying climber who for some reason switched late to another team didn’t automatically “bring” his allocated oxygen bottles with him? That’s mountain madness indeed.

    • @usmc6157
      @usmc6157 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      Exactly…amazing isn’t it?

    • @davidrennie8197
      @davidrennie8197 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

      That would be the responsibility of at least Rob Hall or possibly Scott Fischer as well, not Jon's. Another commentator says Jon's place on his original team was taken up by another climber

    • @EZ-df1cm
      @EZ-df1cm 17 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@davidrennie8197 "Another commentator" is full of shit. JK goes on for some time about how he felt bad that Mountain Madness missed out to Adventure Consultants at the last minute, and how pissed Scott was over it. One wonders what "another commentator's" intentions were; to simply manufacture something to muddy the fact that there was indeed a late logistics change. Perhaps trying to avoid spotlighting the impact this change and the climber involved (JK) had on both expeditions, and the leaders resulting choices.

    • @davidrennie8197
      @davidrennie8197 17 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@EZ-df1cm Well, JK was beholden to the magazine/website paying for everything and would have had v little influence on it

    • @EZ-df1cm
      @EZ-df1cm 16 วันที่ผ่านมา

      @@davidrennie8197 I was pointing at your uncredited reference to "commentators".
      Two things wrong with this.
      1. It's exactly what Michael Tracy has been attacking - unsubstantiated claims either manufactured or copied verbatim.
      2. The comment could easily be seen as running cover for a questionable issue. That is to say JK's Mountain Madness position was out of his (and Outside Magazine's) hands, therefore his presence had no bearing whatsoever on the situation. Of course it did. A journalist from and enormous media outlet with the potential to boost either company's market to the stratosphere. That's influential to everyone involved.

  • @verachocholova7078
    @verachocholova7078 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I love how Michael gets increasingly frustrated with Krakauer with every new video. It´s like, "Here we are again, Krakauer. Why?" Why?!

  • @jjzap2935
    @jjzap2935 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    I can't help but think "I wish Ms. Hill would have sued Krakauer for defamation". Also Ms. Hill filled Krakauer's spot on the MM team so I wouldn't think there would have been extra oxygen because the # on the MM team would have been the same.
    Thanks again Mr Tracy for your work on this incident!!

  • @CopperleafCLC
    @CopperleafCLC 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Imagine if Krakauer climbed with mountain madness and how the story would be written. Anatoli/Fischer would be the Hero’s and Hall the evil villain and the truth would be muddled.

    • @amyepstein4868
      @amyepstein4868 9 วันที่ผ่านมา

      You are correct...there would have been a very different story. I never thought about that aspect before. Thank you.
      As far as truth getting muddled...🤔🤔.
      I found so many opinions...so many accusations...so much blame..
      I did not even consider the book as a source of fact.
      But I am chuckling at this image of him dragging his suitcase from camp to camp...

  • @karlostvall2665
    @karlostvall2665 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    So did Chuldum turn around to assist Fischbeck down, or for some other reason? Can anyone help me understand this?

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +5

      Fischbeck didn't need assistance -- he just didn't feel fit enough to continue. The only account for Chuldum's turn around is that provided in the Himalayan Database, and it simply says he turned around. Later, Chuldum would get carbon monoxide poisoning from a bad cooker. I highly suspect the cooker was bad prior to him departing and likely the reason he turned around was the initial symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning. For whatever reason, Krakauer chose not to investigate this angle or at least chose not to write about what he found. Hopefully, he adds some clarification to this issue in his upcoming corrections to his book.

  • @soloban81
    @soloban81 22 วันที่ผ่านมา

    How much does a full
    Bottle weigh?

  • @winkieblink7625
    @winkieblink7625 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    Jon Krakauer was a non paying client, and used an extra bottle? ….and never wrote it as such in his book? This changes my thoughts. AND….Now I can understand why Krakauer went MIA for at least 15 plus years after book publication and would not give any interviews or talks regarding his book. I can only find one large assembly talk.

  • @usmc6157
    @usmc6157 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    How does this Krakauer fella get so much of this wrong in his account of how things happened? What’s his end game in continuously getting events wrong, what was in it for him? Got to be more than meets the eye here.

  • @winkieblink7625
    @winkieblink7625 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I’m ASTOUNDED the disparity of the oxygen bottle count. From my overall general Everest reading each (client climbers to be clear) usually gets 2 bottles going up (and even stashes the balance of a bottle of that air if not used because of any number of reasons…to save for the descent, TO ADD to the 2 bottles of air allocated for the descent….and the Sherpas are carrying & stashing descending bottles for the clients. Krakauer only states 1 bottle for each way. *I must re read his book* I’ve always enjoyed Krakauer’s books (Non Fiction). He’s an exceptional story teller. It puzzles me why he would write THAT bottle count if it were not true. He had EVERYTHING to lose in that area of credibleness. I was an early Everest / mountain climbing reader in 1996 when Into Thin Air was published. Just curious….did the company guides make an error in ordering?….possibly planning on less clients then ending up with more having to adjust the overall bottles per client? Feel free to help me understand this.

  • @tyesalhus5604
    @tyesalhus5604 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Jon Jon Jon. What is your malfunction. I’m not sure why people think that they can pull the wool over people’s eyes. You see it in our society everywhere. It’s crazy that some people don’t think they will be fact checked because of their status or privilege. It’s very sad.

  • @pizzafrenzyman
    @pizzafrenzyman 20 วันที่ผ่านมา

    So Dorje didn't summit since he only had 2 bottles, and no reserve at South Summit?

    • @groshikovvladimir679
      @groshikovvladimir679 20 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      "From Everest’s summit Hall radioed at 2:15 p.m. that he and his two strong Sherpas, both already Everest summiters themselves, Ang Dorje (also known as
      Chuldim) and Norbu, were at the top, and he could see coming towards him his client Hansen ...Now Hall said he would wait for Hansen, the last of his clients to approach the summit; the other two guides, Groom and Harris, were moving down, he reported, and he was sending Ang Dorje and Norbu down with his successful Japanese client, Mrs. Yasuko Namba."
      (Seasonal Stories for the Nepalese Himalaya 1985-2014 by Elizabeth Hawley, p181).

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  20 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Please re-watch the video as it explains the issue with Ang Dorje's oxygen. We don't know exactly how many bottles any of the Sherpa carried on AC because Krakauer left out that important piece of information. We know it for Rob Hall's 1994 expedition and the 1996 MM Sherpa, but for some reason "investigative journalist" Jon Krakauer did not put that information in his award winning book.
      As for Hall sending Dorje and Norbu down with Namba, this did not happen -- though it is not clear why. Ang Dorge waited on the summit with Hall for some period of time and would have passed Namba on the way down at around the Balcony. It is not clear why Ang Dorje didn't assist Namba at that time, but the most likely explanation was that she was descending with Krakauer and he didn't feel she needed further assistance at that time. Krakauer, of course, has a different version of events where he was nowhere hear Namba at that time.

  • @RSimpkinuk57
    @RSimpkinuk57 23 วันที่ผ่านมา

    Any evidence when and why Chuldem Sherpa turned back? Before Frank Fischbeck, with him or after him? Sent back as an escort, even? (Taske and Hutchison descending together in daylight, then Kasischke, with two Sherpa due to follow a while after, that would be one thing; Fischbeck on his own in the dark would be another.)

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      The information is scant. Hopefully Krakauer clarifies that point when he makes the corrections to his book.

  • @sharonsplat
    @sharonsplat 23 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Well... my daughter was assigned Krakauer in her English class. Am I annoyed. Yes. Am I back... also yes. Someone who lies is more annoying than someone who doesn't defend the less fortunate.

    • @michaeltracy2356
      @michaeltracy2356  23 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

      Hopefully, it is in a Creative Fiction class.

  • @DL-cs6fz
    @DL-cs6fz 6 วันที่ผ่านมา

    I don’t believe ANYTHING. J K says.