White Vinegar VS. Apple Cider Vinegar - Which is better for rusting metal?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 พ.ย. 2019
- Because I've recently received several questions about why I use white vinegar over apple cider vinegar, I figured I'd just make a video about it. And as a bonus, you'll get to see if I can get a piece of stainless steel to rust as well.
If you can't get to a grocery store, below is an Amazon link through my Amazon Affiliate program.
1 gallon Distilled White Vinegar
amzn.to/2Drh2RM
1 gallon Apple Cider Vinegar
amzn.to/34B64VN
Thank you for taking the time to watch my video.
I am a creator of things, a metal artist, a maker of stuff, a woodworker, a welder, and a bohemian traveler of the world.
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I rely solely on creating and building custom projects from metal and or wood. If there is something you would like to have created, then you can either reach out to me here on TH-cam, email me at rogueartist@artfullyrogue.com or check me out on my other social media platforms.
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When I first started thinking about getting into metal arts a year ago, it was your door videos that really hooked me. I found it so cool you were getting effects I’d always wondered about with plain ol vinegar. Then I saw the rest of your videos and thought “I gotta give this a try”. Thanks Doug 🙏🏻
And look at you now! You are creating some amazing art!
Ha! Thanks man.
Awesome! Thank you so much for taking the time to create these videos.
My pleasure!
Thanks so much! I was cleaning a railroad spike and was trying to decide which to use.
Very informative. You make it look easy. Can't wait to try it out
You can do it!
Another informative video! Thanks, Doug.
Thanks Jim. I'm hoping to expand on metal finishes with household items. :)
I'm a blacksmith and have been looking for some new patinas to use in my more sculptural work. I can't wait to play around with this! Thank you so much, Doug.
I think I might have to make a video about the gun blue and copper sulfate you did, but only once I played around with it for a bit.
This channel is going to be big, glad to be within the first batch of subscribers. :)
Thank you very much Tikki!
Fun experiment! Really cool effects.
Thank you 🤗
Thanks! Just what I needed!
Glad I could help!
Thanks Doug very inspiring again !
Thanks for checking it out Rene
I always found it ironic that you can use vinegar to remove rust and to add rust.
Right! I was having the same conversation today about that.
I'm glad I saw this video before doing some of the work I'm planning. I'll make sure I get all of the vinegar off when I'm done removing the rust.
Heh...ironic...
@@grownupgaming7225 also don't forget to soak the objects in baking soda and water for 10 minutes afterwards. Baking soda is a base which will neutralize the vinegar.
Yeah. I learned that when I put it on my fucking Tuatahi axe!!! 😡
Awesome!! I made a metal barn door using your technique.
Excellent! So many cool projects can be made evener cooler with vinegar
Good info. I’m trying Metal shaving (prerusted shaving).sprinkling rusted parts to lay in patterns. Straight vinegar applied. Placed in the hot sun
Heat helps. I've noticed that I get better results in the summer time vs. winter time.
Doug , Great Video Like your Style. Learn alot .
Hope you had a great Thanksgiving. Good too see you !!
Happy Thanksgiving to you as well! So the bus is officially in the shop! :)
@@ArtfullyRogue 😎
Thanks for the video Doug.
Thanks Colin! Wishing you and your family happy holidays.
Thanks Doug, same goes for you and yours.
I just used both on the patina job I did for the interior panels of my Dodge D100. I used the Apple Cider Vinegar first, just because that's what I had on-hand, but when I ran out (before being able to apply any to the last panel), I bought some White Vinegar. For me, the White Vinegar gave the panel a more even, rust-colored patina, where the Apple Cider Vinegar gave the panel a bit darker, uneven pattern. The were both sprayed with the same bottle, and were both sprayed on-top-of some Copper Sulfate I used to give the panels some other colors and patterns.
It seems like there is some subtle differences, and it just comes down to the look you are going for. Either will obviously work, so use what ya got until ya run out.
That's been my mindset, use what you have on hand
Thx for sharing. Very interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it
Thank you for your demonstration, I am building a privacy screen in my yard that is comprised of a cedar frame and 4 inch wire mesh interior so I can mass in with vines. I am searching for a way to hang metal panels with a patina in the center of each section to add interest and provide some immediate screening from a neighbors window that is very close to my property line. The metal panels would occupy approximately 1/3 of the wire mesh screen, If that makes sense, So essentially the vines would end up framing the metal art piece in the center. Love to hear your thoughts on how to deal with this, What gauge of metal would be appropriate so it is not too heavy but does not look chintzy and flap around in the wind.
Cool stuff brother
Thank you very much
I kinda like that it flakes off in places. Gives you a chance to spray it again.
Thanks for going to all this trouble to determine which type of vinegar rusts better. I was just wondering if I had to run to the store for a project that I'm doing (I've got white vinegar in the pantry). It's great to have an absolute answer and you saved me a trip to the store,. Thank you!
Excellent! I'm glad it helped Jason
Yep... definitely going to do this on my stainless steel frig. I would rather look at this kind of raw beauty than be obsessed with cleaning off smudges! Life isn't worth living with out the art. . Reminds me of what oil looks like on a puddle of water. It's like a rainbow spilling colors all over. Art is everywhere .. not everyone sees it! You are amazing.. always sharing.
Thank you so much Denise! I'd love to see how your fridge comes out.
Yikes
Add a little bit of table salt with the vinegar to make it more potent and make sure to completely cover the object when soaking
The white vinegar and water allowed me to brush off the surface rust above the windshield of my 01 Chevy van. Nice paint GM! Anyway, I then treated the bare surface with boiled linseed oil.
Why do you boil the linseed oil
I would love to see a combination of applications using both copper sulfate and white vinegar. Your creative flare could make for some interesting patterns.
Thanks for the suggestion Michael, I'll see what I can come up with
I'm so glad I found your videos, I was wondering what would happen if you cover it with plastic instead of with another piece of metal, would it take longer to evaporate and work better or worse 🤔 just a thought.
Works about the same actually
Thanks for your videos! Great stuff. I make some decorative farm hand tools and cattle brands, and then age them. I have trouble getting stuff made out of round stock (like a cattle brand) to get any dark areas. After watching your videos, I'm wondering if I could wrap the brand in saran wrap to seal it up after spraying and let it sit, if that would help. What are your thoughts on this?
Thanks again for taking the time to put together very informative videos.
I found the key to getting darker rust is to prevent evaporation of the vinegar however on my big sheets a ring of dark rust will literally "seal" between two sheets and prevent the vinegar inside the rust ring from getting very rusty so it help to allow a little oxygen
Love your content!!
Thanks a ton!
I would like to get a black patina on steel. I live in India and do not have access to many chemicals. Can you suggest a fast method for a black patina on mild steel sheet? Thanks a lot
Do you have a way of getting that green rust look?
I use white vinegar and my electrical pliers went black with the vinegar going black too. I cleaned all of the black gunk off and used soda bicarbonate and distilled water and washed. Cleaned with rags. Cleaned up nicely but then I hit it with brass brush on my Dewalt cordless drill. Now it's brass plated! I never expected that because it looks awesome. My question is the black gunk in the container? Is that carbon ? Have I weakened the pliers any reply appreciated cheers from Australia 🙂👍👍👍btw. My previous employer said: you stuffed up the pliers!
Really enjoying the videos. Question: if I’m trying to patina a piece of steel tubing (specifically a bike frame) that would not lend itself to covering by a flat sheet while the vinegar works, would wrapping with aluminum foil accomplish the same thing or would there be a different reaction because it’s not steel? Thanks!
Great question. It's not necessary to cover with steel. I've actually used wood before hoping to transfer the pattern of the wood grain. Using aluminum foil would work just as well. The goal is to reduce evaporation of the vinegar
Nice comparison, do you ever respray the areas that flake off?
Great videos! We will be using rusted metal on the back of island in our kitchen and face of wood burning fireplace and I want it to be a dark rust color, but not black. Would there be any reason to use Corten metal vs a regular metal?
Corten tends to rust fairly consistent. Where I think rusting a regular mild steel with vinegar will give you more texture and coloring and layers. So it really depends on the end result you're wanting
I always use apple cider because my wife cooks with it.. She is sometimes amazed at how much vinegar she uses so don't tell her! I just tell her it makes thing better so use as much as you need.. But now that I know white will works the same I will get that for the shop.. I hope she doesn't notice she is using a lot less vinegar now... Thanks little brother.. carry on...
Haha...I won't say a word Tink :)
@@ArtfullyRogue outstand.. I am safe then.. just in time for Christmas too...!!!!
Hello, love the video! Do you have any advice for doing chrome or nickel plated metal? I don't want full rust look - its guitar hardware - i just want it to look like its 70 years old aged
Unfortunately, I don't feel its possible to rust chrome or nickel plated without removing these finishes and getting down to the bare metal
So glad I found your video! I'm going to do this with a sheet of steel. Question - when I get the desired color, should I rinse it with water to stop the rusting process before I clear coat it? TYIA!
I rarely rinse with water when I use the vinegar method as it sometimes rinses off some of the rust. Instead let the piece completely dry then spray with a clear coat to seal the rust
Soak the objects in baking soda and water for 10 minutes afterwards. Baking soda is a base which will neutralize the vinegar.
Also don't forget to soak the objects in baking soda and water for 10 minutes afterwards. Baking soda is a base which will neutralize the vinegar.
oh god, you just saved me
@@kidro8717 great!
I'm using distilled white and a little apple cider vinegar to clean up some old weights.
Its the weird thing about vinegar, it cleans rust and will also create rust.
Interesting, I just started doing this after I sanded down my C10 to bare metal. I never thought of doing this to add rust.
I really love the look of rust for some reason
Is it possible to rust metal that is chrome plated? I assume that I may need to do my best to somehow remove the chrome? I'm trying to antique a hotel desk bell. The fact that it is domed seems like it could also be a problem. Thank you for your help on this.
I agree, removing the chrome would be the first task. Because of the dome shape, maybe use a cloth with vinegar on it and drape it over the bell dome. This way the vinegar won't drip off
Enjoy your presentations, Doug! Lots of useful info. What have you found to seal the rusted steel for outdoors? Thanks
I use a two part automotive clear coat. Super durable
I have used sculpt nouveau brand ever clear 2 part polyurethane but will try what you suggested Sprayed on is usually best I’m sure 🙏
@@joanneminnick I've never tried the Sculpt Nouveau brand ever clear although I have used their patina's. Maybe I'll do a side by side comparison of the both brands to see which one is better or if there's a difference at all
Hello, I was curious about how you do this because when I use cleaning vinegar on screws of paperclips it just doesnt rust I already tried it on some other metal but idk wat I’m doing wrong because it just doesn’t rust I also use the vinegar in a spraybottle, do you know what I’m doing wrong?
the screws and paperclips have a zinc coating. You need to remove that first. Soak them in vinegar overnight or use pool acid which takes about 10 minutes. Once the zinc is removed they'll be able to rust. Lay them out and spray vinegar and leave them to rust
Great video, question though! I have a 1964 patina original paint, I would like to take paint off my hood by wet sanding, will this vinegar technique be okay on the metal or will it eventually create bad rust? Better to let it rust naturally or will this be okay to do? Thanks!
Honestly I've never used this method on a car, although many people that have watched this video have said it worked great on their cars/projects. The secret is to seal it once you've achieved the level of rust you want so it doesn't become a long term rust issue.
Love your channel and comparisons! To cover, do I need sheet metal? I only have the piece I’m going to use
No, I've used wood, tin foil, cardboard. You just want to prevent evaporation as much possible.
@@ArtfullyRogue wish me luck!!! ❤️❤️
What about plastic? Like painter sheets or garbage bags? Ever try that?
Just. Curious....have you ever tried a combo of both vinegars on one piece? Seems to me you would get a great variation of colors.
Yes and as you can imagine you do get a nice variety of color
Hello! very good video! was wondering how you could do this for a super even rusting. I thought it could be used as Architectural finish inside or outside a house. and does the rust wash off after you put on the clear coat? does the rust continue to rust under the clear coat? thanks! hope you could answer! cheers
It doesn't wasn't wash off after you clear coat it.
It will continue to oxidize though at a much slower rate. It is very difficult to get a coating that is air tight without microscopic holes. Moisture will get through those holes. Most important is where the piece is to be used. Inside a home the environment is more controlled than outside. Next to the ocean outside would be the worst. The rust on my car body I could never get to stop no matter how well I sanded, prepped it and coated it, the rust always can back through my paint. This was 45 years ago, there are newer coating today that have a better chance of stopping it.
I am DIYing some Corten Steel planters with white vinegar, hydrogen peroxide and salt. I want to seal with a clear coat so it doesn't rust all over my concrete where they will be placed but I am having a hard time finding a clear coat that works and people in the stores don't seem to be as familiar with corten steel. Do you have any suggestions on a decent clear coat sealant?
Corten is designed to rust naturally how is it responding to your rust mixture? I use a product that I purchase from Home Depot. The brand name is Deft and buy the spray cans to spray my doors and water features that are rusted. It also comes in pint and gallon cans if your preferring applying with a sprayer. I'll also use an automotive clear coat that can be purchased from any local car paint company. I spray it directly on the rust without rinsing it.
I like these videos, the patterns are cool but I didn't care for the look after using the air gun so much. Maybe you don't have a choice as the flakes need to come off. What about using a random orbiter and grit paper as a prep before the vinegar to effect a pattern, and/or adding salt to the mix. Look forward to your next video Doug.
What I've found, is the longer you leave it on the metal the more stable it becomes. When I lifted the big sheets, none of that flakes off at all. The flaking usually happens in the first couple days. I'm trying to get some different results with salt that I hope to share soon
@@ArtfullyRogue I've seen some also use small pieces of copper (or shavings) thrown on, but I haven't tried that myself and not sure what the effect would be.
please answer me if you have time, i want to corrode aluminum ( real corrode not only on surface but i want the vinegar to eat the surface ) what would be the fastest way to do that and if i dissolve the aluminum into a apple cider vinegar solution would the rusting process be faster than spry it ?
Try hot Lye [a.k.a. Caustic Soda or Sodium Hydroxide] that will eat it fast ... especially done hot.
*** Take great care not to get it on skin or in eyes - it will eat you just as fast !
Does the clear coating that you use actually achieve a bond with the base metal? It would seem that that would be necessary to prevent it from flaking off in the future.
I'm not sure how it actually works however it seems to bond the surface rust to the base metal
@@ArtfullyRogue what clearcoat would you use on that?
How would I cover an embossed pice of metal? Thank you.
I you're using a spray to rust your metal and it's embossed, you can use plastic to cover. Depending on the type of embossing, you can take a second embossed piece and lay it on top of the covered piece so it will nest into the first creating a tighter seal.
Both work
Thank you for this video. Is Deft wood finishing also forsale in Europe? If not, is there a substitute brand?
Honestly I'm not sure. I'll ask around to some friends of mine in the UK
@@ArtfullyRogue That would be great! Thanks in advance :-)
Have you ever tried enamel instead of lacquer for the top coat ?what are your thoughts?
only when I do horizontal pieces..not sure why, just applies nicer to horizontal projects
Vinegar doesn't rust /oxidize 304 Stainless Steel. What is happening is the iron oxide from the steel is discoloring the surface of the stainless. Even steel dust on stainless will leave an oxidation site for rusting to form on the stainless surface. No metal is completely smooth. The iron oxide attaches to the stainless in microscopic surface imperfections and then creates the discoloration. It is hard to remove because it buries itself into the surface imperfections as the oxidation expands. Shops that do high level sanitary stainless steel work have separate work spaces to keep iron dust in the air away from the stainless and they never use the same tools used for steel work to work the stainless. We grind on steel and then use the same grinder for stainless in our shop, it leaves rust track marks all over the stainless if left unprotected. Fortunately, we paint the product before shipment so the iron on the surface is covered.
Seems like you could make some very cool effects by spraying white vinegar in some areas & apple cider in others 🤔
Yeah there are so many cool options
The taggers gone loveeeee this video😘😘
Hi, I've a question. Where do you buy your metal? Is it a certain brand?
I have a metal supplier just down the road from where my shop is and it's not sold by "brand". Different manufactures make different types of metal but most suppliers carry a decent variety
Put on leaves , grasses, pine needles, ferns, or sawdust, or all of them for really cool effects. Can also cut paper or felt patterns and sandwich them to put controlled patterns on. Use two sheets of steel and end up with" book matched "
pieces.
Seal with penetrol. Works well at least on interior pieces, still experimenting with exterior use.
I need to try penetrol. I've heard of several people using but have never tried it myself. I like the idea of using organic items to create different effects
I use white mixed with hydrogen peroxide, sometimes add pieces of copper wire to create patterns.
Cool! I'll have to try that out.
Try it with the wire with & without the pressing.
so just wondering, is it better with black metal or white metal?
I'm not sure what you mean by "black" or "white" metal. Typically with mild steel, you have cold rolled which is raw steel protected by oil and hot rolled mild steel which is protected by a dark layer known as mill scale. You can rust either type however you'd have to remove the mill scale from the hot rolled steel before you can rust it. And remove the oil from the cold rolled before rusting it
I hope you had fun because, yeah, there's no need to answer questions like that.
I know this is not what you're doing but with my few projects, to get the look I'm after, I wash off the dried vinegar and recoat, repeating until I have a rust layer that is stable and covers all of the "silver".
Not sure I'd consider it fun, just answering questions that have been asked in other videos
You can also BBQ with the apple cider vinegar. Haha
I didn't know that
Have you ever tried painting it on?
Yes I have and its does the same thing just in a different way. To save time, I spray it because I'm almost always doing large doors so painting it on would take to long for a similar look
Did I can used vinegar for wood?
I've seen vinegar used on wood to help give it an aged look
Do you ever use hydrogen peroxide with the vinegar???
Ive tried it but haven't seen much difference in just using vinegar by itself
What, no balsamic? This experiment fall so short. 😁
Right :D haha
Looks like maybe your surfaces had some type of contaminates like oil and should have been cleaned with a solvent or something... Unless you are going for that uneven look...
I rarely clean the material as I enjoy the variety it produces. I thinks its the main reason my metal doors are difficult to duplicate. Many people follow "the rules" of surface prep, application, etc. So many people email me asking why their project didn't come out the same way. The first question I ask, did you clean the material? And 9 times out of 10 that's the issue in achieving the varied textures and patterns.
I got better luck with white vinegar 5% acidity which I submerged my rusted dirty metals for max 2 day under the sunlight in summertime.
ok now how do you remove that oxidation?
There are several rust removers on the market however I've never used them so I can't really say one is better than the other
@@ArtfullyRogue do you recommend using vinegar to also remove oxidation?
@@leopoldogonzalez5444 I haven't tried that but I've heard that if you can submerge the item in vinegar for a couple days it will remove rust
@@ArtfullyRogue thanks I'll try that 😁
@@leopoldogonzalez5444
it will de-rust well but you must neutralise fast with Baking Soda [sodium bicarbonate], dry it very quickly and seal or oil the surface immediately. The vinegar leaves the metal etched and has created the perfect surface for flash rusting to occur. I much prefer to de-rust by electrolysis .... plenty of videos on youtube about that process
What happens to citric acid and salt
Not really sure, I might have to find out. I have used lemon juice and it works well
@@ArtfullyRogue Citric acid, which I think is concentrated so it should "bite" better
Hope you test. greetings from Sweden
When are you going to start your door project?
Probably this week
Cleaning vinegar works best
Vinegar is so versatile
Cleaning vinegar is available in much higher concentrations [usually 20%] and is cheap.
Woof!
It will be cheaper depending on how much you use just to make some apple cider vinegar from scratch...
yeah I actually can go through several gallons a week
Okay, so I guess you probably know this already, but neither of those is actually vinegar. White "vinegar" is just diluted acetic acid. The "apple cider vinegar" is most often just diluted acetic acid with some colouring and flavouring added.
I kinda like using Domestos for pitting and rust mongering. (Thick bleach)
How about the brown "vinegar" for added staining. It's just white vinegar with brown dye added.
Various grades of salt can make nice patterns too.
You also get cheap "road salt" on that side of the equator that we don't get here in Mzansi.
To be fair though, I'm constantly battling the elements to try to prevent mildew and rust. (It's rather humid here)
Haha yeah, however if I said "Diluted acetic acid vs. Brown diluted acetic acid" most of the comments would be asking why didn't you just say vinegar. :D
LOL
Good point! This is the Internet. :p
Honestly I just wanted a quick answer
It just wiped off
How silly, over 100 years of folks using white vinegar to clean. I've never read where they used apple cider vinegar.
I've never used apple cider vinegar to clean but it sure does create cool rust