Worked at an HF plant in Amherstburg, Ont. Nasty acid, but most of the operators and maintenance guys were firefighters knew how to deal with it safely.
HF is scary, man. A well-built HF alky basically needs a cage of water piping/sprinklers set up around it, set to deluge the unit if a leak is detected. But if I were a neighbor or an operator, that’s pretty cold comfort and a lot of faith that a refiner working on tight margins did it right. Like the video flashed for a second, the best measure would be elimination/substitution, e.g., replacing it with a sulfuric acid alky. But again, a cheap refiner doesn’t want to shut down a liquid gold maker to build a unit that may not see use for more than a decade or two, depending on how fast climate change transformation happens.
Torrance refinery has his feature around the Alky vessels. If any trace amounts of MHF are detected by the Open path sensors it will automatically trigger a response from the perimeter and roof mounter fire monitors! And the vessels are enclosed in a steel structure. The likely-hood of a MHF release is very very low but never eliminated.
I'm in Northern Cal and there is a refinery that has had a shelter in place due to accidents in the past. Everything we have that makes our life easier comes from hard working blue collar guys (and gals) that know first hand how dangerous these chemicals are. Each refinery is held to the laws applicable. It takes congress, EPA etc. to propose a change. In this case are they[refinery] not complying? ps really good quality videos on this channel, I just found you and am impressed!!
Yeah I'm a chemical engineer and this stuff is scary, before it even gets to your bones it will give you a heart attack. Either you get the calcium gluconate shit in, on, and everywhere near you... you are dead. And those masks will do little, stuff is highly lipophilic it will just seep through skin.
@@e.l.9589 cyanide is not that bad, yeah its toxic and all but it wont just kill you excruciatingly and there are antidotes for it. This is for the salts of cyanide, HCN is a different story....
It's good to hear somebody that's doing work with it that isn't telling everybody it's mere Kool-Aid with a funny name God bless you man for keeping us safe. This world's full of squeamish people and they will never take a tough job if they think it's a tough job or dangerous and then when they find out what their in they just run away and let it get everybody.
A bit of a pointer for the producer of this video. If you're going to zoom in and scroll text on the screen where each pixel is resolved, turn off sub-pixel hinting first (or Clear Type in Windows). This feature takes advantage of the fact that normally we can't resolve each pixel with our eyes and makes fonts look smoother/cleaner and easier to read. Once you zoom in, well, you see how bad it looks.
The issue is, when it comes to HF’s unique properties, there aren’t really that many alternatives. Like which other substance can dissolve silica? Alkaline substances can, but it takes high heat.
In over 70 years of using HF acid, there have been no fatalities from HF acid in the civilian population. Only 15% of the HF acid used in the US is used in the refineries industry. I worry more about the transport of HF Acid.
How they did science in the 60’s: : I wanna see what happens when we drop na in a body of water. Like thousands of tons at once. Ok, sounds good. Oh and I wanna release a metric f ton of gaseous hf. Just watch it float. In La. Ok, sounds good…..wait. Maybe do it in the desert
Trains? They use HF for making high octane fluids for gasoline! They’re not driving it anywhere. They go through extreme measures to keep everything safe. Learn what they use it for before you comment please
@@quinceylandreth7564 "They use HF for making high octane fluids for gasoline..." Another reason for trains, which don't run on gasoline. Thanks for playing lol
@@quinceylandreth7564 They deliver HF acid to refineries via semi trucks. Each alky unit has an HD loading area. Deliveries of acid aren't constant but are consistent. Likelyhood of catastrophic release is possible but not probable. These units have what's called a rapid deinventory system which rapidly transfers acid from unit to storage drum. There is also a deluge system (massive sprinklers or spray heads) that wet the acid in vapor form and make it fall to the unit process sewer for neutralization. There are 3 possibilities outside HF. Sulfuric acid (no refineries want this as its not that great) and 2 newer techs called liquid catalyst and solid catalyst both of which are running in the US right now. I see more refineries switching to one of these 2 in the near future. HF is difficult to work around.during maintenance, very dangerous stuff no doubt but it works extremely well for its purpose.
Yeah because trains are ideal transportation and very realistic for most people to get around in their day to day lives. Although I’m sure you’re totally cool with just deciding everyone needs to drastically alter their lives and the quality of their lives in the name of “climate change”. Except the elites, nobody is gonna tell Obama he can’t fly private anywhere and anytime he wants. Zuckerberg. Clooney. All the big money benefactors of your beloved “progressive” democrat party..
I love these videos, but more education is needed about chemicals, society wants cheap energy and high technology. But then screams about things like PFAS. There is no such thing as a semiconductor chip without PFAS and HF. Fluorine is a very unique chemistry. Nobody uses it because they want to, they use it because it works. And we make these chemicals under tight regulations or we put our head in the sand and let China make them with no regulations. Which is actually better for the environment?
1) Refineries came BEFORE homes. 2) What are they doing building homes NEAR refineries? 3) Why are idiots BUYING homes near refineries? Humans are STUPID.
Most of the HF used in industry is used to make refrigerants. Oil refineries consume less than 10% of the HF produced. Without HF, you couldn’t manufacture Freon. Without Freon,, no refrigerator and no A/C.
@@lawabidingcitizen5153true. Propane, aka R270, is actually a very good refrigerant. In small quantities it poses relatively little danger, 600grams or less in most small appliances.
The HF for the fluorination of hydrocarbons is simply a coordination catalyst. Actual fluorine is used for the substitution reaction. It is used alone as a catalyst to desulfur and alkylate aromatic hydrocarbons. The only other alternative is a mixture of H2SO4 plus SO3 but it is not as effective.
Why on earth would ANYONE buy a house near a refinery? That is not the fault of the refinery. That is the fault of the people dumb enough to think that building and living near one is a good idea
As long as it's just for the money we need to Sue and Sue and Sue and Sue and Sue. A lot of people would disagree with this and they stick their head in the sand and they die when the big company just decide to leak s little gas to make money. If you had a safety officer with the authority to shut down a plant, and a prison sentence hanging over and if he doesn't and something fails.
@@aaronj08ar yeah we might all move to have the government shutdown everything just because nobody cares about anybody else. Move or remove I think we'll go with remove you
HF isn’t flammable though but yes free fluorine would be made and it’s nasty, plus putting ignition sources in a unit that has iso butane, propane product stocks along with light end olefins as a feed stock is just dumb. We use water curtains and Rapid Acid dumps to mitigate any releases. All unit piping is closely monitored and measured for corrosion where I work at.
Bruh you wanna blow up a vapor cloud in a refinery, one busted pipe that goes to another process unit can really upset the refinery, Been chasing turnarounds my whole life, I have first hand experience with HF acid in different parts of the country
Worked at an HF plant in Amherstburg, Ont.
Nasty acid, but most of the operators and maintenance guys were firefighters knew how to deal with it safely.
Chemical refinery plants aren’t no joke.
Gotta be extremely careful.
That crap stinks.
I work at a chemical plant and deal with this stuff every day.
HF is scary, man. A well-built HF alky basically needs a cage of water piping/sprinklers set up around it, set to deluge the unit if a leak is detected. But if I were a neighbor or an operator, that’s pretty cold comfort and a lot of faith that a refiner working on tight margins did it right.
Like the video flashed for a second, the best measure would be elimination/substitution, e.g., replacing it with a sulfuric acid alky. But again, a cheap refiner doesn’t want to shut down a liquid gold maker to build a unit that may not see use for more than a decade or two, depending on how fast climate change transformation happens.
Torrance refinery has his feature around the Alky vessels. If any trace amounts of MHF are detected by the Open path sensors it will automatically trigger a response from the perimeter and roof mounter fire monitors! And the vessels are enclosed in a steel structure. The likely-hood of a MHF release is very very low but never eliminated.
The issue is that there aren’t really that many substitutes to the material because it is one of the very few substances that can dissolve silica.
I'm in Northern Cal and there is a refinery that has had a shelter in place due to accidents in the past. Everything we have that makes our life easier comes from hard working blue collar guys (and gals) that know first hand how dangerous these chemicals are.
Each refinery is held to the laws applicable. It takes congress, EPA etc. to propose a change. In this case are they[refinery] not complying?
ps really good quality videos on this channel, I just found you and am impressed!!
All that is necessary to cause a disaster in a matter of seconds is 1 shortcut happening in the wrong place at the wrong time!
Honestly it’s peoples fault for being stupid and building/buying houses near a refinery
It will go through the skin, straight to eating the bone. It can can kill you instantly. I transport this stuff.
Yeah I'm a chemical engineer and this stuff is scary, before it even gets to your bones it will give you a heart attack. Either you get the calcium gluconate shit in, on, and everywhere near you... you are dead. And those masks will do little, stuff is highly lipophilic it will just seep through skin.
@@chemicalboy2106 Fear it more than moving cyanide.
@@e.l.9589 cyanide is not that bad, yeah its toxic and all but it wont just kill you excruciatingly and there are antidotes for it. This is for the salts of cyanide, HCN is a different story....
That is crazy!! Thank you so much for the information. Have some 3M cartridges that is a HF 1 cartridge and wanted to research the chemical!
It's good to hear somebody that's doing work with it that isn't telling everybody it's mere Kool-Aid with a funny name God bless you man for keeping us safe. This world's full of squeamish people and they will never take a tough job if they think it's a tough job or dangerous and then when they find out what their in they just run away and let it get everybody.
A bit of a pointer for the producer of this video. If you're going to zoom in and scroll text on the screen where each pixel is resolved, turn off sub-pixel hinting first (or Clear Type in Windows). This feature takes advantage of the fact that normally we can't resolve each pixel with our eyes and makes fonts look smoother/cleaner and easier to read. Once you zoom in, well, you see how bad it looks.
Very informative and very well produced!
Shame they set the wrong shutter speed filming the interview footage though 🤦♂
Nice information, weird that in USA they have chemical plants inside a city lol.
The issue is, when it comes to HF’s unique properties, there aren’t really that many alternatives. Like which other substance can dissolve silica? Alkaline substances can, but it takes high heat.
In over 70 years of using HF acid, there have been no fatalities from HF acid in the civilian population. Only 15% of the HF acid used in the US is used in the refineries industry. I worry more about the transport of HF Acid.
How they did science in the 60’s: : I wanna see what happens when we drop na in a body of water. Like thousands of tons at once.
Ok, sounds good.
Oh and I wanna release a metric f ton of gaseous hf. Just watch it float. In La.
Ok, sounds good…..wait. Maybe do it in the desert
Another reason for trains lol
Trains? They use HF for making high octane fluids for gasoline! They’re not driving it anywhere. They go through extreme measures to keep everything safe. Learn what they use it for before you comment please
@@quinceylandreth7564 "They use HF for making high octane fluids for gasoline..." Another reason for trains, which don't run on gasoline. Thanks for playing lol
@@quinceylandreth7564 They deliver HF acid to refineries via semi trucks. Each alky unit has an HD loading area. Deliveries of acid aren't constant but are consistent. Likelyhood of catastrophic release is possible but not probable. These units have what's called a rapid deinventory system which rapidly transfers acid from unit to storage drum. There is also a deluge system (massive sprinklers or spray heads) that wet the acid in vapor form and make it fall to the unit process sewer for neutralization. There are 3 possibilities outside HF. Sulfuric acid (no refineries want this as its not that great) and 2 newer techs called liquid catalyst and solid catalyst both of which are running in the US right now. I see more refineries switching to one of these 2 in the near future. HF is difficult to work around.during maintenance, very dangerous stuff no doubt but it works extremely well for its purpose.
Yeah because trains are ideal transportation and very realistic for most people to get around in their day to day lives. Although I’m sure you’re totally cool with just deciding everyone needs to drastically alter their lives and the quality of their lives in the name of “climate change”. Except the elites, nobody is gonna tell Obama he can’t fly private anywhere and anytime he wants. Zuckerberg. Clooney. All the big money benefactors of your beloved “progressive” democrat party..
I love these videos, but more education is needed about chemicals, society wants cheap energy and high technology. But then screams about things like PFAS. There is no such thing as a semiconductor chip without PFAS and HF. Fluorine is a very unique chemistry. Nobody uses it because they want to, they use it because it works. And we make these chemicals under tight regulations or we put our head in the sand and let China make them with no regulations. Which is actually better for the environment?
Underrated comment.
1) Refineries came BEFORE homes. 2) What are they doing building homes NEAR refineries? 3) Why are idiots BUYING homes near refineries? Humans are STUPID.
Most of the HF used in industry is used to make refrigerants. Oil refineries consume less than 10% of the HF produced. Without HF, you couldn’t manufacture Freon. Without Freon,, no refrigerator and no A/C.
Not true, many fridges and ACs use propane, n-butane, isobutane or similar with no problems, CFCs are banned in many places
@@lawabidingcitizen5153true. Propane, aka R270, is actually a very good refrigerant. In small quantities it poses relatively little danger, 600grams or less in most small appliances.
The HF for the fluorination of hydrocarbons is simply a coordination catalyst. Actual fluorine is used for the substitution reaction. It is used alone as a catalyst to desulfur and alkylate aromatic hydrocarbons. The only other alternative is a mixture of H2SO4 plus SO3 but it is not as effective.
refinery...built in 1907....neighborhood not built in 1907....don't built or buy near a refinery....dummies.
Why on earth would ANYONE buy a house near a refinery? That is not the fault of the refinery. That is the fault of the people dumb enough to think that building and living near one is a good idea
As long as it's just for the money we need to Sue and Sue and Sue and Sue and Sue. A lot of people would disagree with this and they stick their head in the sand and they die when the big company just decide to leak s little gas to make money. If you had a safety officer with the authority to shut down a plant, and a prison sentence hanging over and if he doesn't and something fails.
No. Don't like it, move.
@@aaronj08ar yeah we might all move to have the government shutdown everything just because nobody cares about anybody else. Move or remove I think we'll go with remove you
Why not intentionally put ignition sources around the HF so it explodes before it reaches the surrounding community?
Because then you get a cloud of flourine that is still baaaad stuff
HF isn’t flammable though but yes free fluorine would be made and it’s nasty, plus putting ignition sources in a unit that has iso butane, propane product stocks along with light end olefins as a feed stock is just dumb. We use water curtains and Rapid Acid dumps to mitigate any releases. All unit piping is closely monitored and measured for corrosion where I work at.
Bruh you wanna blow up a vapor cloud in a refinery, one busted pipe that goes to another process unit can really upset the refinery, Been chasing turnarounds my whole life, I have first hand experience with HF acid in different parts of the country
Because HF is inert like water.
This is why gas prices are so high in your state. Just saying
Hehe