@ComicTropes any reason as to why you aren't telling us where you find the comics that you looked into? It's important for us being comic readers to know where to find and get the comics that you are telling us lol would be helpful if you start addressing where you find these comics
Interesting to see these not-quite-fully formed yet turtles acting differently from how we'd expect. Gotta say, the lack of masks is also a little weird, right? You're so used to seeing them that without them they almost look naked.
I think most of the turtles already had their trademark personalities by that point. I assume any mischaracterizations were just a result of the turtles not being completely ingrained into pop culture for anyone past the age of 10 during that time, and there was no set, hardcore fan expectation on how they should act, either. In fact, out of all the turtles, it was surprisingly only Mikey who didn’t have much of his personality in the Mirage comics or really much of a role actually, especially in the canon continuity. There were only a couple of issues, or really just moments, that portrayed him as being the immature, silly one. I think it’s Raph that has more one-liners from what I remember, and it’s kinda a toss-up on whether he or Mike are gonna be the goofball for the issue, like in this story. Mike’s usually just kinda there.
The turtles acting "not in character" was them acting as teenagers who aren't flanderized. They weren't wildly out of character; all have acted irresponsibly at times.
@@dajokahbaby1506yes, I've not watched TMNT since I was VERY young, but I've been reading the mirage comics (I'm still aware of how they generally act in the shows) So far in my reading, Raphael has the most distinct personality, brutish and very hot headed and a little angry, but very skilled, Leonardo is the cool leader that keeps everybody under control in times of peril However Mikey and donatello so far really lack personalities yet, Donatello has been shown to be great with computers but he's not quite the hyper intelligent nerd I remember seeing on the shows (maybe I'm misremembering him and making his show personality more extreme, correct me if I'm wrong) And yes, Mikey so far has just been kinda there, but potentially he'll develop more as I read on, so far it's a great comic
@@dolier2802 Raphael having the most personality is because he was Kevin Eastman's favorite so he got more of the limelight, while Donatello was Peter Laird's favorite because he was a nerdy computer guy that was kinda meek and reserved, like him I guess, so I assume that's why he doesn't do much either.
Bloodsucker is such a cool concept! A vampiric mutant leech that came into existence because the Turtles didn't think that far ahead and were just goofing around? It would make for a great antagonist in a movie like Mutant Mayhem or a show today because of how it deals with them growing up
There’s actually continuity in a following issue about mermen - where Raphael is asked if he wants to talk about what happened, to which he replies negatively to.
It's funny that Eastman & Laird laid out nearly an exact path for Todd McFarlane with Spawn. Start a creator-owned hit comic, go straight to merchandising and tie-ins, hire guest writers who complicate future rights and royalties, return to your own comic years later. Spawn had those early guest writers (Sim, Gaiman, etc) for publicity but I think McFarlane also knew he's get lasting lore and characters out of them. And now Angela (sorry Aldrif Odinsdottir) been part of Marvel for ten years after just seven at Image.
@@mrmikermac that's cool like how many years ago was that, like recently or later in your life? Just wondering so when ever I get to read it. Like what comic store and mall. Sorry if I'm to noisy just curious 😅
I really wish they could have retained the rights to Bloodsucker. He would have made a fantastic addition to the Turtles' rogues gallery. Imagine what other writers and artists could have done with the character.
I actually like to see the Turtles show some variety in their personality; especially since they've become so type-casted in their roles, even to the point of Flanderization. Seeing Raphael be whimsical and introspective is a desired deviation from the typical 'irate meathead' schtick in most TMNT iterations.
I think that’s why the last ronin storyline go so many good reviews(haven’t read the whole thing myself yet). When you think of the turtles you don’t think of Miley being the bad ass last man standing super ninja.
This is a good point. Having the Turtles doing things that don't just fit the narrow stereotypes they've steadily taken on for personalities is kind of a breath of fresh air, and I honestly didn't find it _completely_ out of character in either situation covered here. Sure, Raph is the hothead of the brothers, but he's just as quick to say "screw this" to things like meditation and the more metaphysical aspects of their ninja training (he's the one who storms out on the meditation session in the first live-action movie, after all). Plus, back when I read that particular arc, I always interpreted the refusal to bow, and his screwing off to play in the river to be less an act of immaturity, more one of rudeness and disrespect. Splinter is both their father _and_ their sensei, and in most martial arts disciplines, not bowing to your sensei at the beginning and end of a teaching session is considered disrespectful and rude. So, Raph's being a jerk, and his brothers rightfully call him on being both kind of a dick to their parent/teacher, but also for sloughing off on training. And as for Leo going postal and chopping the leech up in the initial encounter, it's unsurprising, imo. Leo's characterization in both the Mirage comics and similarly in the live-action movies read as "respectful, straightforward leader...who can in fact suddenly lose his temper and a good bit of his skill/self-control with it." It's a thing we see particularly in the first live-action movie, both when Raph gets jumped by the Foot Clan and nearly killed, and later when Shredder says the infamous "Ah, the rat...so it has a name. It _had_ a name..." line about Splinter. Leo's the first to see red and go on the offensive, without any of his usual control and precision.
One of my absolute favourite TMNT stories from one of favourite TMNT artists. When I first started collecting TMNT comics Rick Veitch’s ‘Sky Highway’ issue was the latest book on the stands and it really made an impression on 14 year old me. It was very different from the Eastman & Laird stories I had been ravenously consuming initially, but in the best possible way. I immediately sought out ‘The River’ from the back issue boxes and it quickly became one of my favourite stories
Raph: I will show how mature I am by letting go of this small creature, because even if I am disgusted by its existence I am no one to take its life. The leech: That was your fist mistake.
Continuity is fun, except when people take it too seriously. I accept the elements that I like and either ignore or discount the parts I don’t. Creators do it all the time (whether or not they still work on their creations) so why not readers. However, I always try to keep things civil. Whenever people argue continuity harshly, to the point where they become salty and rude about what is and isn’t canon, I’m reminded of a quote from Alan Moore with Whatever Happen to the Man of Tomorrow? “This is an imaginary story…aren’t they all?”
I want to make an independent comic myself and hire writers to do chapters with their own characters and as such when I publish it I want to be sharing creation rights fully with the writers of those characters and chapters. Integrity is more important than money and the industry needs to change.@@Nono-hk3is
I havent read or even SEEN these issues since I was a little kid. The screaming Donatello and the group covers where Michaelango's nunchuck chains were insanely long brought me right back to 4th grade. I remember there being an eerie narration over the panels of this story that gave it a sense of fear. And when Raphael ultimately gets his powers back after being stuck as a baby turtle who could only sy "Mew", his first words were " 'Mew' my arse! Anybody got a brew?" ...which led me to hide this issue from my parents. Lol
This episode blew my mind. It turns out, the first issue of this run was just sitting on the bookshelf in my fourth grade classroom. If only I had some idea back then what I was looking at...
The battle for creative rights involving the turtle is always fascinating. With how the Eastman was such a big proponent and then asking for the guest artists to sign away rights always seemed strange. Have you ever talked about the behind the scenes issue of Tundra comics?
I remember my brother and I in the early 00s visiting a local comic shop. We found so many TMNT comics and this arc was amongst them. Granted our exposure to TMNT was the movies and cartoons. These comic terrified me and fascinated me. I never knew the comics were like this.
I only had a few TMNT comics as a kid but I remember The River because it was a story that stuck with me ever since I read it in 89. Definitely the best TMNT story I've ever read and one of the most memorable and chilling comics I've read too. For years I would look for it in reprint and later in digital form and never really understood why I couldn't find other than vague mention of rights issues. And thanks to this video, now I know the rest of the story. Excellent work!
I remember buying these from a quarter bin in the mid-1990s, because I thought the covers were cool. I ended up getting most of the original Mirage run that way, actually! I really lucked out, because as soon as the 2003 TMNT cartoon started, all the prices on Mirage comics shot right up, and they've only continued to climb.
The River Trilogy was among the first Mirage comics we purchased when my brother and I started collecting them in the early 90s. We still have all of them as well as "Sky Highway", Veitch's other contribution to the Mirage canon. I had no idea they were so rare.
I love the very first issue. Also I loved the first cartoon era, since I was a little kid at that time. Now I really appreciate the story of the early years, the way the creators got started and did it their way. Very inspirational.
I started buying any Ninja Turtles back issue I could find when I first started reading comics. So the guest era was a super fun surprise for me. Great video!
Yes! So glad to see this covered so that a wider audience is aware of it! I've sung the praises about this arc and several other Rick Veitch stories for decades to my friends and comic groups. It's such a shame that these (and a few other guest stories) can't get a beautiful oversized IDW hardcover.
After being introduced to the TMNT through the '87 cartoon (I had heard of the original comic, but hadn't yet read it), the first issue of this storyline was also the first issue of the Mirage Turtles comic that I ever purchased, it blew my mind! I still have these three issues, and also the trade paperback with the painted cover by A.C. Farley.
Really interesting, maybe the Rapahel going back to being a normal turtle is a bit weird to me, but a leech becoming humanoid by drinking mutant blood is good on my book. Really useful to know this stories as they mostly went unpublished here in mexico. Thanks!
Thanks for this episode Chris. I've been reading comics off and on since the 80s (2 major breaks over that time), but I have to admit I never really got into TMNT until recently. I remember seeing the live action movies back in the day at the theater and the occasional cartoon, but never the comics. That being said the history of the Turtles is fascinating with Laird & Eastman and all the guest creator's stories it makes me want to discover more. Thanks again for this little nugget in Turtles lore!
These were my first TMNT comics back in the day❤ They were rare in my country at the time. A specialised comics shop had only opened up in my town about a year before. The cartoon version broke about a year later here. Took a bunch of shit for liking "kids comics" 😂 The difference between the original comics and the show were night and day
Man, I was like 8 years old and an avid reader of the Archie series. One of these issues ended up in my box by mistake. I'd read it regardless, and man did it push my brain into a more vast state.
Great video. After seeing the title I figured it probably had to do with the guest era. It would be cool to see something get worked out to rerelease it again. I'm looking at the second Compendium volume coming out this year and you can see the River trilogy is one of the exclusions. For as big and cool as those Compendiums are, you do kind of wish they could go without excluding things.
Love this story. Like you pointed out, the foundation is there, but still being built. Especially in terms of personalities of the turtles. Bloodsucker is such a freaky villain too along with the overall vibe of the story. Love his design. Love the stories we got along with this one, so many unique spins, art styles and storytelling. Love that you are covering some TMNT! Love to see more along with the usual content! Edit: LOVED Mutant Mayhem!!! Glad you enjoyed it! Saw it on premier! It was a fun ride.
Great exposition choice here! Nice to get guest artists and writers explained, a description of the story that is very reminiscent of some Swamp Thing themes, and even some contract politics stuff.
I remember reading these when they came out - the baby Ralphael was heartbreaking and the thought of devolving from a sentient being into an animal was straight up terriffying. Had no idea about the background drama preventing reprints, damn. Good video.
I did subscribe just a few days ago, I must compliment you on the work you've done on some of these videos, that's true passion and commitment, not to mention a knack for analysis
I was never a huge Turtles collector but I am happy to say I have these issues. Rick Veitch might not be the biggest fan of superheroes but he sure can craft an action storyline; the battle of wills between Splinter and the Old Man is a highlight but everything in this one is good. Great comic, and a great video.
really looking forward to watching mutant mayhem! it'll be my first true experience with TMNT, but the animation looks super interesting, and an ost by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross?! I have a feeling this movie is gonna make some new fans! great video again Chris, always enjoy delving into some comics history on your channel :)
had no idea these were hard to find i have all 3 of these comics still glad i kept em as a kid i thought there was more i was missing so thanks for that closure
Great video as always! Off topic but I would love to see a video about The One and other deconstructive superhero comics prior to Watchmen (I specifically read Miracleman because of your recommendation from years ago)
Damn, what a great hidden gem to highlight. I had no idea the reprint I have is the only one, and it’s been long enough since I’ve read it that I didn’t know who Veitch was at the time so I had no idea he did it. Very informative video even for people who have read it!
I was too young to get the com8cs as they were coming put, but definitely have the TMNT as a core part of my fandom genesis. Now I want all those old comics and love the history and stories surrounding them so much. The 80s b&w boom.and the 90s indie creator owned era have so much great stuff.
Good lord, I love Rick Veitch's work. He seemed to go off the rails after a certain event happened to the USA, but I wasnt keeping up by that point anyway so I'm not sure where he's at these days. His Rare Bit Fiends deserves all the love, as does Cant Get No, with it's Sharpie penned main character.
I had no idea those particular issues were hard to find. I actually have all three original prints. Probably haven’t been opened in over 30 years. Time to dig them out, I guess. Thank you!
Ah, that's not just it! I was going to order the TMNT Condempium, where I noticed it was missing issue 8. Issue 8 is the first appearence of Renet, the turtle's time traveler friend, Lord Simutanious, and Savanti Romero. It has to do with a cross-over with Dave Simm's Cerebus. Now, other reprints of TMNT collections, the issue is in there, but not in this one. Why is that?
@@ComicTropes Or they're trying to cut ties with him for his beliefs. Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nickelodeon owns TMNT, and they probably don't want that kind of political element involved.
What a great video! And I actually have a copy of volume two and volume six of the old graphic novels! I had no idea that volume six was so rare! I stopped collecting them after the hardback The Works collection started coming out but I'm glad I picked this one up!
I started off on the cartoon and started collecting the Mirage TMNT book at issue 19 (the “Return to New York” arc right before the “guest era” started). Things got real strange real quick with the Mark Martin issues (which were meant to follow up a “Dark Knight” parody that I never got around to tracking down), but there were some strikingly good issues like the full color Richard Corben issue, the Soul’s Winter trilogy, and The River. It was the closest thing to a horror comic that I had read in that point of my life.
It's funny, I found issues 24 and 26 in the bargain bins not long after I started looking for the Mirage comics when the 2003 animated series came out, but it took years for me to find a copy of issue 25. I was very happy when I finally found it and immediately read it. I actually really enjoyed the guest artist era as a whole, but even so this was a highlight. I wish that they had fought more mutants in the Mirage comics, and even though I still love the 80s cartoon I wish that they had both used more characters from the toy line and had more episodes with the toy characters that they did use.
Man I knew I had a TMNT comic with a leech in it! I couldn’t remember what it was but it was that third part, issue 26. Thank you for posting this! It was driving me crazy. Nope I need to find a copy of it.
I really love Bloodsucker! His design and abilities are sick! I also love how he's created unintentionally with the turtles messing with Raphael. I wish he became a mainstay in the Turtles' rogues gallery. Also, the idea of Bloodsucker becoming a mutant by sucking on Raphael's blood reminds me of the episode of the 2012 series where a Jason Voorhees-like plant mutant called The Creeper was created after Leonardo vomits on a flower. The Creeper's ability is strikingly similar to Bloodsucker's. Both drain the life of people it touches and leaves them as mush. In fact, both feed on Raphael which causes him to devolve into a lesser state, though in the show Raph devolves into a plant hybrid. Now thinking of it, I feel like the Creeper could've been a stand in for Bloodsucker for the show. In fact, both take place in similar settings in a rural/forest area. Apologies for my TedTalk, I just put two in two together and I am just rapidly speculating.
Given how referential the 2012 series was, it wouldn't shock me if the Creeper was an intentional nod to Bloodsucker. Either way, I love that episode. 🙂
I had a magazine with a turtles story in it, I believe it was a Jim Lawson, and there was a lobster mutant that I always thought was cool looking and wished had made other appearances.
Started watching this channel couple weeks ago and got addicted 😂 maybe cool idea if someone would make a discord or other place were people here could talk comics with eachother
I think the idea of Raphael as the "immature" one tracks. It's just how that immaturity is expressed that seems out of character in retrospect. If this story could be adapted (which it can't without Rick Veitch getting paid an amount Viacom would never shell out), the logical choice would be to have the emphasis on his immaturity be based on his temper and lack of forethought. Mikey can sometimes be read as immature because he likes to have fun, but that's not really immature, per se. Raph *is* the immature one.
I like the idea that a Leech could become mutated by simply feeding on the Turtle's blood.
Should be shitloads of mutant mosquitos around.
@@ParkerDavis Oozesquitoes, are a thing. As is Needlenose.
That the conceit behind IDW’s Jennika
Doesn't make sense that it would cause Raphael to demutate.
@@dreamlandnightmare Well yes. Because it is extracting the mutagen out of him.
I’d never heard of this one, really interesting!
Thank you very much for giving it a watch. I recommend reading the story if you can find it.
Yah he’s a cool villain but marvel stays on top with legendary villains like Corn of Coblin
I've read it. One of my favorite TMNT stories. It's trippy and poetic.
Oooh, a surprise Mr Sunday out in the wild 😄
@ComicTropes any reason as to why you aren't telling us where you find the comics that you looked into?
It's important for us being comic readers to know where to find and get the comics that you are telling us lol would be helpful if you start addressing where you find these comics
Interesting to see these not-quite-fully formed yet turtles acting differently from how we'd expect. Gotta say, the lack of masks is also a little weird, right? You're so used to seeing them that without them they almost look naked.
They're kinda always naked, right? Excepting those knee/elbow pads.
I think most of the turtles already had their trademark personalities by that point. I assume any mischaracterizations were just a result of the turtles not being completely ingrained into pop culture for anyone past the age of 10 during that time, and there was no set, hardcore fan expectation on how they should act, either.
In fact, out of all the turtles, it was surprisingly only Mikey who didn’t have much of his personality in the Mirage comics or really much of a role actually, especially in the canon continuity. There were only a couple of issues, or really just moments, that portrayed him as being the immature, silly one. I think it’s Raph that has more one-liners from what I remember, and it’s kinda a toss-up on whether he or Mike are gonna be the goofball for the issue, like in this story. Mike’s usually just kinda there.
The turtles acting "not in character" was them acting as teenagers who aren't flanderized. They weren't wildly out of character; all have acted irresponsibly at times.
@@dajokahbaby1506yes, I've not watched TMNT since I was VERY young, but I've been reading the mirage comics (I'm still aware of how they generally act in the shows)
So far in my reading, Raphael has the most distinct personality, brutish and very hot headed and a little angry, but very skilled, Leonardo is the cool leader that keeps everybody under control in times of peril
However Mikey and donatello so far really lack personalities yet, Donatello has been shown to be great with computers but he's not quite the hyper intelligent nerd I remember seeing on the shows (maybe I'm misremembering him and making his show personality more extreme, correct me if I'm wrong)
And yes, Mikey so far has just been kinda there, but potentially he'll develop more as I read on, so far it's a great comic
@@dolier2802 Raphael having the most personality is because he was Kevin Eastman's favorite so he got more of the limelight, while Donatello was Peter Laird's favorite because he was a nerdy computer guy that was kinda meek and reserved, like him I guess, so I assume that's why he doesn't do much either.
Bloodsucker is such a cool concept! A vampiric mutant leech that came into existence because the Turtles didn't think that far ahead and were just goofing around? It would make for a great antagonist in a movie like Mutant Mayhem or a show today because of how it deals with them growing up
That would be perfect for a mutant mayhem sequel, but I won't spoil how in case you haven't seen it
@@-Teague- the movie is alr but I think doesn't fit the tone of his comic
Raphael slowly reforming into a regular turtle is such a terrifying idea
Leech’s design is so cool
The Trench coat and Hat disguise is comedic on the Turtles and ghastly on Leech
There’s actually continuity in a following issue about mermen - where Raphael is asked if he wants to talk about what happened, to which he replies negatively to.
It's funny that Eastman & Laird laid out nearly an exact path for Todd McFarlane with Spawn. Start a creator-owned hit comic, go straight to merchandising and tie-ins, hire guest writers who complicate future rights and royalties, return to your own comic years later. Spawn had those early guest writers (Sim, Gaiman, etc) for publicity but I think McFarlane also knew he's get lasting lore and characters out of them. And now Angela (sorry Aldrif Odinsdottir) been part of Marvel for ten years after just seven at Image.
I’ve always liked the idea of Bloodsucker and wished he could be used in modern stories.
Why can’t he be?
@Prizm17 As the video says: rights issues with his creator
No joke, this was the first ever tmnt comic story I ever read. Bloodsucker scared the bejezzus out of me 😂
Pretty cool. I wish I knew about the comics when I was a kid. I just knew the cartoon, movies and video games.
Where did you find the comic at the time, mike?
@@JordanWheeler1999 there was a comic shop next to my school in a strip mall.
@@mrmikermac that's cool like how many years ago was that, like recently or later in your life? Just wondering so when ever I get to read it. Like what comic store and mall. Sorry if I'm to noisy just curious 😅
I really wish they could have retained the rights to Bloodsucker. He would have made a fantastic addition to the Turtles' rogues gallery. Imagine what other writers and artists could have done with the character.
Wyrm is the same basic idea
@@samuelantonioveloz6647we all watched the same video buddy
I actually like to see the Turtles show some variety in their personality; especially since they've become so type-casted in their roles, even to the point of Flanderization.
Seeing Raphael be whimsical and introspective is a desired deviation from the typical 'irate meathead' schtick in most TMNT iterations.
I think that’s why the last ronin storyline go so many good reviews(haven’t read the whole thing myself yet). When you think of the turtles you don’t think of Miley being the bad ass last man standing super ninja.
This is a good point. Having the Turtles doing things that don't just fit the narrow stereotypes they've steadily taken on for personalities is kind of a breath of fresh air, and I honestly didn't find it _completely_ out of character in either situation covered here. Sure, Raph is the hothead of the brothers, but he's just as quick to say "screw this" to things like meditation and the more metaphysical aspects of their ninja training (he's the one who storms out on the meditation session in the first live-action movie, after all). Plus, back when I read that particular arc, I always interpreted the refusal to bow, and his screwing off to play in the river to be less an act of immaturity, more one of rudeness and disrespect. Splinter is both their father _and_ their sensei, and in most martial arts disciplines, not bowing to your sensei at the beginning and end of a teaching session is considered disrespectful and rude. So, Raph's being a jerk, and his brothers rightfully call him on being both kind of a dick to their parent/teacher, but also for sloughing off on training.
And as for Leo going postal and chopping the leech up in the initial encounter, it's unsurprising, imo. Leo's characterization in both the Mirage comics and similarly in the live-action movies read as "respectful, straightforward leader...who can in fact suddenly lose his temper and a good bit of his skill/self-control with it." It's a thing we see particularly in the first live-action movie, both when Raph gets jumped by the Foot Clan and nearly killed, and later when Shredder says the infamous "Ah, the rat...so it has a name. It _had_ a name..." line about Splinter. Leo's the first to see red and go on the offensive, without any of his usual control and precision.
That’s why rise raph is the best one
@@bionichuteagain2583
Actually, '87 Raph is the best Raph.
One of my absolute favourite TMNT stories from one of favourite TMNT artists. When I first started collecting TMNT comics Rick Veitch’s ‘Sky Highway’ issue was the latest book on the stands and it really made an impression on 14 year old me. It was very different from the Eastman & Laird stories I had been ravenously consuming initially, but in the best possible way. I immediately sought out ‘The River’ from the back issue boxes and it quickly became one of my favourite stories
Do you still have your original copies of those books?
Yes still have my originals and the collected book vol. 6 where they were reprinted. That book sells for quite a bit now
@@kodoyama wowwwww so glad you were able to keep them! They in good shape?
Sky Highway holds such a special place in my heart.
This is one of the first turtle comics I bought when I was a kid. It was crazy reading this. I still have this in my collection.
Raph: I will show how mature I am by letting go of this small creature, because even if I am disgusted by its existence I am no one to take its life.
The leech: That was your fist mistake.
Continuity is fun, except when people take it too seriously. I accept the elements that I like and either ignore or discount the parts I don’t. Creators do it all the time (whether or not they still work on their creations) so why not readers.
However, I always try to keep things civil. Whenever people argue continuity harshly, to the point where they become salty and rude about what is and isn’t canon, I’m reminded of a quote from Alan Moore with Whatever Happen to the Man of Tomorrow?
“This is an imaginary story…aren’t they all?”
I had to adapt to doing this, being a Spider-Man fan and all. Poor guy hasn't had a good arc in well over a decade.
The idea of guest artist coming in they think are cool is actually really neat
Yeah, they think fellow artists are cool until their own greed kicks in.
I want to make an independent comic myself and hire writers to do chapters with their own characters and as such when I publish it I want to be sharing creation rights fully with the writers of those characters and chapters. Integrity is more important than money and the industry needs to change.@@Nono-hk3is
@@Nono-hk3iswhat
I havent read or even SEEN these issues since I was a little kid. The screaming Donatello and the group covers where Michaelango's nunchuck chains were insanely long brought me right back to 4th grade.
I remember there being an eerie narration over the panels of this story that gave it a sense of fear.
And when Raphael ultimately gets his powers back after being stuck as a baby turtle who could only sy "Mew", his first words were " 'Mew' my arse! Anybody got a brew?" ...which led me to hide this issue from my parents. Lol
Rick Veith art is such an amazing fit for TMNT. What a gem
This episode blew my mind. It turns out, the first issue of this run was just sitting on the bookshelf in my fourth grade classroom. If only I had some idea back then what I was looking at...
The battle for creative rights involving the turtle is always fascinating. With how the Eastman was such a big proponent and then asking for the guest artists to sign away rights always seemed strange. Have you ever talked about the behind the scenes issue of Tundra comics?
I remember my brother and I in the early 00s visiting a local comic shop. We found so many TMNT comics and this arc was amongst them. Granted our exposure to TMNT was the movies and cartoons. These comic terrified me and fascinated me. I never knew the comics were like this.
I only had a few TMNT comics as a kid but I remember The River because it was a story that stuck with me ever since I read it in 89. Definitely the best TMNT story I've ever read and one of the most memorable and chilling comics I've read too. For years I would look for it in reprint and later in digital form and never really understood why I couldn't find other than vague mention of rights issues. And thanks to this video, now I know the rest of the story. Excellent work!
I remember buying these from a quarter bin in the mid-1990s, because I thought the covers were cool. I ended up getting most of the original Mirage run that way, actually! I really lucked out, because as soon as the 2003 TMNT cartoon started, all the prices on Mirage comics shot right up, and they've only continued to climb.
God I ADORE Rick’s works. I need this story to be reprinted
The River Trilogy was among the first Mirage comics we purchased when my brother and I started collecting them in the early 90s. We still have all of them as well as "Sky Highway", Veitch's other contribution to the Mirage canon. I had no idea they were so rare.
I remember this comic from when I was a teen. Definitely one of the best TMNT comics out there. Just fantastic. Thanks for reminding me of it.
I love the very first issue. Also I loved the first cartoon era, since I was a little kid at that time. Now I really appreciate the story of the early years, the way the creators got started and did it their way. Very inspirational.
Love the amount of tmnt content coming out right now
I collected tent back then as a kid. That was a good story
I didn't know a turtle "body horror"-esque story is something I'd be interested to read
I started buying any Ninja Turtles back issue I could find when I first started reading comics. So the guest era was a super fun surprise for me. Great video!
Thank you for this review. I completely forgot this story in my old age. A wonderful trip of nostalgia.
Yes! So glad to see this covered so that a wider audience is aware of it! I've sung the praises about this arc and several other Rick Veitch stories for decades to my friends and comic groups. It's such a shame that these (and a few other guest stories) can't get a beautiful oversized IDW hardcover.
the art of the leacher draining the business man was like something out of a 50s horror comic....so cool
After being introduced to the TMNT through the '87 cartoon (I had heard of the original comic, but hadn't yet read it), the first issue of this storyline was also the first issue of the Mirage Turtles comic that I ever purchased, it blew my mind! I still have these three issues, and also the trade paperback with the painted cover by A.C. Farley.
Really interesting, maybe the Rapahel going back to being a normal turtle is a bit weird to me, but a leech becoming humanoid by drinking mutant blood is good on my book. Really useful to know this stories as they mostly went unpublished here in mexico. Thanks!
Thanks for this episode Chris. I've been reading comics off and on since the 80s (2 major breaks over that time), but I have to admit I never really got into TMNT until recently. I remember seeing the live action movies back in the day at the theater and the occasional cartoon, but never the comics. That being said the history of the Turtles is fascinating with Laird & Eastman and all the guest creator's stories it makes me want to discover more. Thanks again for this little nugget in Turtles lore!
great video, chris! your enthusiasm for comics is contagious as always!
These were my first TMNT comics back in the day❤
They were rare in my country at the time. A specialised comics shop had only opened up in my town about a year before.
The cartoon version broke about a year later here. Took a bunch of shit for liking "kids comics" 😂
The difference between the original comics and the show were night and day
Man, I was like 8 years old and an avid reader of the Archie series. One of these issues ended up in my box by mistake. I'd read it regardless, and man did it push my brain into a more vast state.
Great video. After seeing the title I figured it probably had to do with the guest era. It would be cool to see something get worked out to rerelease it again. I'm looking at the second Compendium volume coming out this year and you can see the River trilogy is one of the exclusions. For as big and cool as those Compendiums are, you do kind of wish they could go without excluding things.
It’s cool that the creators are still involved with TMNT
Love this story. Like you pointed out, the foundation is there, but still being built. Especially in terms of personalities of the turtles.
Bloodsucker is such a freaky villain too along with the overall vibe of the story. Love his design.
Love the stories we got along with this one, so many unique spins, art styles and storytelling.
Love that you are covering some TMNT! Love to see more along with the usual content!
Edit:
LOVED Mutant Mayhem!!! Glad you enjoyed it! Saw it on premier! It was a fun ride.
I had this exact comic. It was dark. I love how the 2012 Nickelodeon show paid homage to both this and Friday the 13th.
I love the turtles and never heard of this story! Another great episode!
Great exposition choice here! Nice to get guest artists and writers explained, a description of the story that is very reminiscent of some Swamp Thing themes, and even some contract politics stuff.
Thanks for another episode, Chris! I never read this story and I want to get it now although I'm sure it's skyrocketed in value, 35 years later.
FINALLY someone mentions the BEST obscure tmnt villain.
Don’t know how I haven’t discovered you before.
Top notch Comic book content, I appreciate you brother!
I remember reading these when they came out - the baby Ralphael was heartbreaking and the thought of devolving from a sentient being into an animal was straight up terriffying. Had no idea about the background drama preventing reprints, damn. Good video.
Your channel helped me rediscover my love of comic books.
What a cool character we ain't never gonna see again, because you know them Suits ain't never gonna give dude a fair deal on the character.
Hey, thank you for the historical synopsis. These creators in intellectual property are near and dear to my heart. Great stuff!
Another insightful show fella really fun makes me love comics in time when im not loving comics as much as I should.
OG Turtles was brutal! 🗡
I did subscribe just a few days ago, I must compliment you on the work you've done on some of these videos, that's true passion and commitment, not to mention a knack for analysis
I was never a huge Turtles collector but I am happy to say I have these issues. Rick Veitch might not be the biggest fan of superheroes but he sure can craft an action storyline; the battle of wills between Splinter and the Old Man is a highlight but everything in this one is good. Great comic, and a great video.
This video was AMAZING man! I'd never heard of Leech before but he's fascinating!
really looking forward to watching mutant mayhem! it'll be my first true experience with TMNT, but the animation looks super interesting, and an ost by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross?! I have a feeling this movie is gonna make some new fans! great video again Chris, always enjoy delving into some comics history on your channel :)
One of the TOP FIVE BEST Comic Channels. I, too, recall giggling quietly at vulgarity of my first TMNT (ADULT) comic.
had no idea these were hard to find i have all 3 of these comics still glad i kept em
as a kid i thought there was more i was missing so thanks for that closure
It’s good to see some Ninja Turtles every once in a while.
Great video as always! Off topic but I would love to see a video about The One and other deconstructive superhero comics prior to Watchmen (I specifically read Miracleman because of your recommendation from years ago)
Damn, what a great hidden gem to highlight. I had no idea the reprint I have is the only one, and it’s been long enough since I’ve read it that I didn’t know who Veitch was at the time so I had no idea he did it. Very informative video even for people who have read it!
I have the original prints of this comic run its what made me fall in love with them
I was too young to get the com8cs as they were coming put, but definitely have the TMNT as a core part of my fandom genesis. Now I want all those old comics and love the history and stories surrounding them so much. The 80s b&w boom.and the 90s indie creator owned era have so much great stuff.
Good lord, I love Rick Veitch's work. He seemed to go off the rails after a certain event happened to the USA, but I wasnt keeping up by that point anyway so I'm not sure where he's at these days. His Rare Bit Fiends deserves all the love, as does Cant Get No, with it's Sharpie penned main character.
He's on Facebook, easy to keep up with what he's doing there.
this was a really good show, love all the episodes Tropes puts out.
I had this when I was a kid.
Did not know this even existed!
Time to track it down.
Greetings from Argentina
Love this episode, always love hearing about some turtles
Couldn't imagine a world not liking a comictropes video
I had no idea those particular issues were hard to find. I actually have all three original prints. Probably haven’t been opened in over 30 years. Time to dig them out, I guess. Thank you!
I have them Mirage issues. Their not so great and dont know why people pay lots of money to get them
Ah, that's not just it! I was going to order the TMNT Condempium, where I noticed it was missing issue 8. Issue 8 is the first appearence of Renet, the turtle's time traveler friend, Lord Simutanious, and Savanti Romero. It has to do with a cross-over with Dave Simm's Cerebus. Now, other reprints of TMNT collections, the issue is in there, but not in this one. Why is that?
My gut feeling? It probably has to do with the fact that its a crossover with Dave Simm's Cerebus.
Yeah that's a pretty good reason lol
Sometimes Dave Sim has given permission to reprint it and other times he hasn’t. I think each reprint is a different deal with him.
@@ComicTropes Or they're trying to cut ties with him for his beliefs. Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nick-Nickelodeon owns TMNT, and they probably don't want that kind of political element involved.
Awesome episode, Chris! See you tomorrow night!
What a great video! And I actually have a copy of volume two and volume six of the old graphic novels!
I had no idea that volume six was so rare!
I stopped collecting them after the hardback The Works collection started coming out but I'm glad I picked this one up!
I started off on the cartoon and started collecting the Mirage TMNT book at issue 19 (the “Return to New York” arc right before the “guest era” started). Things got real strange real quick with the Mark Martin issues (which were meant to follow up a “Dark Knight” parody that I never got around to tracking down), but there were some strikingly good issues like the full color Richard Corben issue, the Soul’s Winter trilogy, and The River. It was the closest thing to a horror comic that I had read in that point of my life.
Fascinating to see the TMNT early before they became the Turtles we know & love. Hopefully Nickelodeon gets the rights stuff squared away.
Great video as always
It's funny, I found issues 24 and 26 in the bargain bins not long after I started looking for the Mirage comics when the 2003 animated series came out, but it took years for me to find a copy of issue 25. I was very happy when I finally found it and immediately read it. I actually really enjoyed the guest artist era as a whole, but even so this was a highlight. I wish that they had fought more mutants in the Mirage comics, and even though I still love the 80s cartoon I wish that they had both used more characters from the toy line and had more episodes with the toy characters that they did use.
Great video as always. Hopefully I can track this story down
All the hype that I've seen for Mutant Mayhem has made me realise that TMNT is probably my favourite franchise, at very least top 3
Yeh
Man I knew I had a TMNT comic with a leech in it! I couldn’t remember what it was but it was that third part, issue 26. Thank you for posting this! It was driving me crazy. Nope I need to find a copy of it.
omgggg, this is the comic where the famous mew, mew, mew panel comes form hahahahahahah Thank you Chris for another swell video !!
I really love Bloodsucker! His design and abilities are sick! I also love how he's created unintentionally with the turtles messing with Raphael. I wish he became a mainstay in the Turtles' rogues gallery.
Also, the idea of Bloodsucker becoming a mutant by sucking on Raphael's blood reminds me of the episode of the 2012 series where a Jason Voorhees-like plant mutant called The Creeper was created after Leonardo vomits on a flower. The Creeper's ability is strikingly similar to Bloodsucker's. Both drain the life of people it touches and leaves them as mush. In fact, both feed on Raphael which causes him to devolve into a lesser state, though in the show Raph devolves into a plant hybrid. Now thinking of it, I feel like the Creeper could've been a stand in for Bloodsucker for the show. In fact, both take place in similar settings in a rural/forest area. Apologies for my TedTalk, I just put two in two together and I am just rapidly speculating.
Given how referential the 2012 series was, it wouldn't shock me if the Creeper was an intentional nod to Bloodsucker.
Either way, I love that episode. 🙂
Really interesting comics rights story. Great video as always!
I often forget how good some of those early TMNT issues were. I really like Veitch's art too.
Nothing witty to say. Just boosting the signal for our pal Chris.
I had a magazine with a turtles story in it, I believe it was a Jim Lawson, and there was a lobster mutant that I always thought was cool looking and wished had made other appearances.
Great episode, Chris!
What a cool, neat little story! Definitely want to read it now
Very interesting episode Chris!
This was cool, I'm going to put these issues on my hunt list.
Great video Chris ❤️
Great deep dive into the guest era of TMNT!!!
Started watching this channel couple weeks ago and got addicted 😂 maybe cool idea if someone would make a discord or other place were people here could talk comics with eachother
There is one.
@@ComicTropes found it mb
One of the first sets of issues I ever got as a kid. The River and Return to New York. Love them both.
I think the idea of Raphael as the "immature" one tracks. It's just how that immaturity is expressed that seems out of character in retrospect. If this story could be adapted (which it can't without Rick Veitch getting paid an amount Viacom would never shell out), the logical choice would be to have the emphasis on his immaturity be based on his temper and lack of forethought. Mikey can sometimes be read as immature because he likes to have fun, but that's not really immature, per se. Raph *is* the immature one.
Great video! I’ve discovered something new! Thanks m8!