How A Mormon Missionary Began to Doubt w/ Isaac Hess
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2024
- 📺 Full Episode: • From Mormon Missionary...
Isaac tells Matt about the first time he encountered hard questions about his faith he couldn't answer. How did he handle this? What was that experience like?
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I can completely relate with Isaac. As a former Mormon, served as a missionary in New England area where I encountered so many bright catholics who "planted the seeds" of what I call my awakening from the Mormon dream. Sadly, because I am so slow to understand things, it took me an entire decade wandering as an atheist, until I really found the huge treasure that is the Catholic faith. As a Catholic I came to understand that this god (with a lower case g) that I used to believe as a Mormon is completely non-sense.
Best regards from Brazil.
Even as a missionary, something about Catholics always struck me. They were always the most polite, first off (had a lot of Born Agains who would simply berate us), and they asked the most meaningful questions, actually meeting us where we were and explaining their point of view in a way where I would find myself agreeing. At the time I was engrossed enough in my own faith to not have doubts about these things, but now, I'm being ready to be baptized as a Catholic and I look back and see the seeds being planted by good, evangelizing Catholics
Catholics? Oh come on! They can't even understand why it's wrong to use alcohol, a mind-altering drug! I'm a convert to the LDS church, having joined over 40 years ago, and one of the things that attracted me to the Church was The Word of Wisdom, how Mormons don't drink, smoke, swear, take drugs, etc. This was all so new to me! I grew up Episcopalian and everybody drank alcohol, smoked cigarettes, drank tea and coffee. But I saw the Osmonds on TV and knew they were different, and I wanted to know what was behind their beliefs, so I set out to investigate, never thinking I'd actually JOIN the Church. But the more I learned, the more I knew I had to join. I was baptised shortly after having my first baby. Now my grandkids are in the Church!
@@Cindybin46user-nu4hg2dx6u "Follow Jesus?? pshhh! That guy makes wine when it runs out at parties! Doesn't he know all mind-altering substances are bad?!" ...Not meaning to be uncharitable or too snarky. Just pointing out where this mindset leads if we're intellectually honest.
You dismissed the Church out of hand for this issue in your post...but where do you think the teaching of allowing people to choose to drink in moderation comes from? Don't like it, take it up with Jesus. He probably would have condemned it during his earthly ministry if it was so intrinsically evil, rather than making more of it when it ran out lol 🤷♂️
@@JoeyTrench People always bring Jesus and wine. I have explained for years that yes we know about Jesus and wine in the Bible. But we have The Word of Wisdom now, in the latter days, as part of the one true church. That's what's so great about it. Also it drives me nuts when people say it's okay to drink "in moderation". The pot smokers always say it's okay to smoke pot in moderation! They just don't undersatnd how it is immoral to use a mind-altering drug to have "fun", etc. And we will NEVER get all the pot smokers to understand why it's wrong to smoke pot, as long as people use alcohol. I have ranted about this for 2 decades online, haven't you read anything I've written?
@@SnowyDay4 So true! That's what I tell people all the time online. They always bring up "Jesus drank wine" and "everything in moderation". I have explained all this over and over for 20 years online.
Amazing! 2 LSD boys passed by yesterday but I was finishing a project for the University, so I asked them to return an another day, so we can sit and talk together. Thinking about them, I decided to look to some Mormon's inputs on YT and I found the PWA’s episode with Stephen Johnson, and I started to listen to it. After listening to this one too, I hope that the Lord will come (Veni, veni Emmanuel) in our next meeting, they are supposed to come back here Saturday morning! Pray for us 🙏🏻
Greetings from Québec, Canada 🇨🇦!
If possible, let us know how it goes. I pray for strength and ease of speech for you!
@@jbwhitebirch6620 I will!
Don't expect to change their minds in one or even multiple meetings, if you choose to do so. As a former Mormon missionary, I can say that they are trying to convert you just as much as you them. But, I can also say that during my time as a missionary for the LDS church, Catholics always struck me the most, and those seeds were planted by their polite, civil discourse and reasoning. Now, years later, I'm preparing to be baptized into the Catholic Church, and my new found understanding of God has blessed me more than I can describe. God bless you in your efforts to evangelize
@@NotablySped thank you! I think I will try to listen truly to them and I will talk on how my encounter with Jesus Christ and his church changed my life. Trying to stay simple and humble.
You realize that watching anti-Mormon and ex-Mormon stuff is NOT the truth, right? That is not going to give you what you need to know. I'm a convert to the Mormon church, having joined over 40 years ago in my 20s.
He's correct that most Christians in the Bible belt don't know their own Bible.
One great thing in the internet age has been projects like the Bible Project which has done a good job of putting the Bible into the original author and Ancient Near East contexts... which clashes with a lot of specific denominational beliefs (often from theologians from the Middle Ages) so I've had to reexamine everything I was taught growing up. It's been a rewarding journey!
If you think about it, the question that was posed to Isaac asking how God could command something to Adam while secretly hoping he does disobey is shockingly close to the Calvinist worldview in which God created Adam just for him to fall.
It would be nice to hear from a woman who converted to Catholicism from Mormonism. I think it's a very different experience and set of expectations that women face in the LDS church, just based on what I know of their theology and what I have seen growing up in the American southwest.
@Pints With Aquinas
I’m a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints & a subscriber to your channel. I love the work you do & am grateful for it. You have had a few converts to Catholicism from my faith on recently. Do you have any interest in having a Latter-day Saint academic on the channel?
He has been trying to host a debate for quite some time now. He had one LDS lined up to debate Jimmy Akin, Robert Boylan, but he backed out. This was after he said "If he(Fradd) backs out, I will make sure he will not hear the end of it."
@@nullarcstudios8910how very Christ like of him
Thank you for linking to the full video. Many people dont do that and it drives me crazy.
This whole interview was excellent. I've since talked with a lds about the Adam-God debacle and Brigham Young. Its really not widely known as thought.
I had been told, as a Mormon missionary, like Isaac said, that it was myth and was never taught by the church. Discovering the contrary really opened my eyes to the inconsistencies of the doctrine and what early church leaders actually believed.
I tried to get my TBM husband to listen but the host kept calling LDS members “mormons” when he was particularly asked not to refer to members of the church that way , so he didn’t finish the interview, I was disappointed, it seemed to lack respect, but more disappointed this gave my husband an excuse not to listen
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 Dependence *on community leaders for answers to faith-related questions.*
01:06 Dismissal *of controversial points as lies within the faith community.*
02:17 Challenges *faced during missionary work due to differing interpretations of religious teachings.*
04:11 The *evolving understanding of the nature of God in Mormon teachings.*
06:15 The *belief in the potential for humans to become like God in Mormonism.*
07:24 Exposure *to historical truths contradicting previously taught beliefs, leading to doubt and questioning.*
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If they think the father was once a man, then who do they think created the father? It almost sounds like gnostic teaching.
I hope you see this Thrsday. I'm sorry this isn't relevant to this video, but I wasn't sure how else to reach you/Matt. Is Matt going to address the Hallow/Liam Neeson scandal? I have recently sent Hallow my thoughts on that and canceled my subscription and my kids' subscriptions, too. I'm wondering what Matt's thoughts are since he is advertises for them regularly. I love that app, but I just can't support that kind of partnership. I wish Hallow had really thought that through before they did it. Or they did think it through and knew they'd lose some support, but probably not enough to matter. So sad.
I did listen to this podcast, and it was excellent as usual. Thanks for the great content! I love hearing conversion stories.
It’s interesting how Hegelianism and Mormonism share ALOT in common. If this is true, then we can say that Hegel truly wasn’t a Christian
I thought we were using the term LDS?
9:08 Am I to some Catholics what _that_ Mormon was to Isaac Hess?
1) When I converted, I was a YEC, I had been told I didn't need to be, but I was obviously not told it was wrong either.
2) Later, in conversations, I heard things like St. Augustine not believing the Creation days were literally days, so one could extend them.
3) I then learned that his "deviation" if one likes from literality of days was shorter, not longer, and that from creation of Adam and Eve on, he follows standard models (varying but very related time spans) of Biblical chronology, City of God.
4) I am spreading that, and this may disturb people who grew up with or were invited with CCC § 283 ...
It is more like his "deviation" from the literalistic reading does not directly involve the notion of time. That is, so long as we are restricting ourselves to the actual exegesis, each creative "day" is instantly contemporaneous with every moment of creation.
"no time" and "instant" and "contemporaneous" (with instantly) means "not even a second" and "with every moment of creation" would (if you find that phrase) be about the creation event, not about created time as a whole.
@@hglundahl Yes, it seems to be about created time as a whole. God, at this moment, is creating the heavens and the earth in six "days"--six broadly categorized instances of coordinated order. The picture articulated in "de genesi ad litteram" makes the days co-instant with creation at every moment of its existence, including this one. God, here and now, is actively creating the universe in six divisions of light from darkness, crowned with a seventh of rest.
It's great that you're reading St. Augustine, however when it comes to the sciences and faith, you ought to not extract any scientific data from the Bible. The Bible narrates History, yes, but the Old Testament in particular was written by a Semitic culture that was heavily attached to romanticizing, metaphors, exaggeration, and numerology. The correct way to read this is taking into account this, and to read Scripture _in light of_ science, not in opposition to it. The reason you're Christian isn't connected to that specific interpretation of Genesis, is it? You know Catholicism is true, therefore Scripture narrates history, therefore Genesis contains history there somewhere, we just have to try and get it. Again, get it in light of what we know of science, history, and Ancient Near Eastern culture. Which is what Augustine recommended as well, you may have also read from him that he regularly consulted with countless Rabbis and scholars when interpreting the Old.
I hope I helped somewhat. Peace be with you.
OK,@@alonsoACR, here is why I cannot return the peace to you:
_"you ought to not extract any scientific data from the Bible."_
That's:
* not in the Bible
* not in Tradition
* not in the undisputed Popes or their councils (disputed = after 1950'ish or so).
_"The Bible narrates History, yes, but the Old Testament in particular was written by a Semitic culture that was heavily attached to romanticizing, metaphors, exaggeration, and numerology."_
I don't think either Genesis 5 or Genesis 11 (the genealogy parts) could have their chronology explained away that way.
The genealogies are dry, they are not obvious or even comprehensible metaphors for sth else, they don't seem exaggerated, and the ages don't have numerological significance.
_"The correct way to read this is taking into account this, and to read Scripture in light of science, not in opposition to it."_
That evaluation of Science seems to make it a superdogma (as someone said about certain people's attitude to a supposed council).
The pretended science does not stand up to scrutiny as scientifically well proven, and does not shed much light on this scripture.
I mean of course, how the data are usually presented by Evolution believers.
_"The reason you're Christian isn't connected to that specific interpretation of Genesis, is it?"_
A straightforward acceptance of traditional narrative as at least roughly speaking historical is definitely part of my apologetic arsenal, applicable to Gospels, to Odyssey and Mahabharata, and to Genesis.
_"You know Catholicism is true, therefore Scripture narrates history,"_
I know Genesis was taken to narrate history, therefore it presumably does, until proven otherwise. That's not a conclusion of the faith as much as one of the prolegomena.
_"therefore Genesis contains history there somewhere, we just have to try and get it."_
Sorry, but I have more respect for the historicity of Ramayana, while I hold its theology to be erroneous and that of Bhagavadgita hardly even palatable, than you have for the narratives of our fathers in the faith.
_"Again, get it in light of what we know of science, history, and Ancient Near Eastern culture."_
Sh eeee sh ...
1) why do you put science before history?
2) why do you think we get history independently of narratives?
3) why do you think ANE is a kind of monolith allowing you to extrapolate from a Canaanean and a Babylonian on what Genesis means?
_"Which is what Augustine recommended as well, you may have also read from him that he regularly consulted with countless Rabbis and scholars when interpreting the Old."_
1) The rabbis were not trying to reconstruct the OT history in spite of their tradition, they were an independent branch of the OT tradition, unacceptable in theology at times, but pretty good as far as history is concerned;
2) "countless" is a qualifier I'd like to have your source in St. Augustine for.
I'm a convert to the LDS church, having joined over 40 years ago, in my 20s. Listening this video has made me realize that everything I've believed all these years is a lie. I shall drop out.
I’m really sorry about that, I hope for blessed journey finding Christ 🔥
@@VincentVu846 I was being sarcastic.
Good Idea to drop out Cindy, just be careful where You drop in next.
@@johnm.speight7983 again, i was being sarcastic.
Catholicism is the only true faith, started by Christ himself and carried on by Peter ✝️
People always say that, but it's so not true. The entire reason the LDS church was founded was because the original church established by Jesus and the apostles fell into apostasy long ago.
@@Cindybin46user-nu4hg2dx6u how do you reconcile Jesus saying the gates of hell would not prevail against his church? & Daniel saying Jesus kingdom would be established for ever? Besides Joseph smith where does it say the Church fell into Apostasy?
@@jonycruz2430 There is lots of information about this if you ask LDS missionaries, read Church things, etc.
@@Cindybin46user-nu4hg2dx6u
The belief in Heavenly mother.
Temple sealing to become Gods
Signs & tokes through the veil.
sounds more like apostasy to me.
@@jonycruz2430 yes you are right, nobody ever told me this before, I blindly joined the Mormon cult without thinking, I will drop out.
Ah yes I remember when Jesus said this in the Bible "ye shall know them by their tree"...or something...
by their fruits
@@Cindybin46user-nu4hg2dx6u I'm making a joke
Really wanting to see a high quality discussion/debate between a Catholic and an LDS person soon. Many LDS are lapsed Catholics. Having a discussion about the hard truths regarding their religion's logical issues may plant some seeds (and they often avoid anything they suspect is 'anti-Mormon', so an active, believing LDS person participating would make it more likely to be heard by them).
Ah Mormonism. American Islam
No, that is SO not true. I'm a convert to the LDS church and it is nothing like Islam.
There are plenty of parallels between Islam and Catholicism 🙄
Can you explain why you think that?
I love the hypocrisy PWA displays by calling out the faults in one religion’s history, but not its own.
Very true, and they have ~1600 years of history to pick from
Lol keep rolling in your rabies sectarians
Pretty sure he’s mad about Catholic faults too. Where’d you get that idea?
At the beginning of this he describes his own religion.
Let me ask you a question. Do you want to worship the God of Constantine.
Where we're pulled out of him for God's own entertainments. Or do you want to worship the God of Israel, and where Adam is our father and the "god" lower case creator of the human family in this world? Where the fall is a plan and Satin didn't just sneak in.
What is the purpose of Constantine's God?
The God of our Fathers is our Father and wants us to Grow. I'm sorry but Isaac has lost his mind going to the cloud (unknown) shape shifting God. I would never worship Constantine's God. HIs motivations are evil. He's evil.
"The God of Constantine". LOL
Accusations tend to be confessions.
And God took flesh. That's the whole point of the incarnation. God is greater than can be known, but he can be known in part---and the fullness of this revelation is Christ himself. Thus, there cannot be a loss of the Gospel any more than there can be a death of Christ's glorified resurrection body, for the Gospel gives life, and it was entrusted to a specific Church.
@@benabaxter you can have your Shape shifting God. I don't Love Him/her (it) and never would. I worship HIM, my father in Heaven and His SON Jesus Christ who created the heavens and earth and will judge us because he knows what we've lived through. I love and adore my heavenly Mother, just like the antient Israelites did and the early Christens. I follow Jesus Christ because he's real, He's real now and he lives and one day I will Hug him. With my arms, and he will hug me with his arms.
Please feel free to worships how you want. But I'm sorry I've seen and heard and can't unsee.
@@benabaxter
I Gleaned two sage points:
"Accusations tend to be confessions. "
"Gospel gives life, and it was entrusted to a specific Church."
Uhh Catholic beliefs about God are much older than Constantine. Older than Christ himself, too, actually.
I also don't know where you got the shape-shifting stuff, which is also kinda weird.
Trading one religion for another religion is the same as disbelieving in unicorns in favor of believing in mermaids.