Hot Rod Magazine Bashing of the Buick 350 "Engine Family"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- In this episode of Mr. Rodder's Neighborhood, I take a break from constructing stuff to talk about something I recently read in a periodical that chapped my backside! The Small Block Buick 350 is such an enigma in the automotive community that even the biggest of Magazines screw it up when trying to discuss the engine family.
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I quit buying them comic books years ago when I realized that most of the print was horse shit just pushing some wiz bang parts that pleased their advertisers.You are absolutely correct - the spirit about hot rodding , making power with your mind instead of your credit card. The writer of that article does not have a clue. P.S. I had a 215 Buick in a 62 skylark -it surprised a few people.
Us Australians really appreciate the engineering of Buick, our Holden V8 was designed by Ed Silins (A Latvian born ex Luftwaffe pilot) in 1964 utilizing the best practice engineering of the Chev 283, Buick 300 an Olds 330. For example the oil pump on a holden is just like a buick but opposed to suit right hand drive.The rear engine seal on the V6 Buick/Holden 3800 fits the Holden V8 (and it doesn't leak).
Now the 215 on the other hand was a favorite of the Brits and became the Rover 3500 and in Australia we blew it out to to 4.4 litre to make the Leyland P76 engine and it made plenty of power..to this day this engine platform is still very popular amongst speed/jet boat enthusiasts because of it's simplicity an light weight....you can turbo it for days and yes it is lighter than an LS....And then there's the Repco V8..over to you Dallas.
Down in Australia Repco took the Olds 215 design and used it for racing. I believe they chose the Olds because it had 6 head bolts per cylinder instead of 4 bolts per cylinder like the Buick.
I love the Olds 330. Great motor.
In fact the Leyland 4.4 litre alloy V8 has the same deck height of the 350 Buick. Repco also made a Formula 5000 version of the Leyland motor too.
It’s funny because the Leyland 4.4 ended up using holden rockers.
Thank you for the Buick history, a lot I didn't know. My first engine build in 1979 was a 1964 Olds F-85, vista cruiser wagon. It had a 330ci with a steel crank, 2 speed power glide and I found a stall converter from a small motor home that gave me about a 1500-1800 stall. A local hot rod machine shop did a lot of work inside and to the heads. I found a 4 barrel intake with a Q-jet at a junkyard for $20, and I bought $69.00 blackjack headers for a 70 cutlass because they didn't make headers for my vehicle. A couple of cheap hush thrush mufflers and that was it. It looked totally stock on the outside except the headers and I beat a lot of Chevelle's, and others and yet here's this ugly powder blue wagon that beat them? Fun days.☺️
real meaning to hot rodding
You can tell that the guy who wrote the article didn't even do so much as read the Wikipedia article on this motor. Does Buick have less parts availability? Yes. But ignoring its capabilities entirely and just comparing it to a v6 is a huge disservice. So done with the big corporate"hot rod" media. So glad we've got guys like you to tell the truth, Dallas!
Really well presented analyses and defense of that Buick engine class. This needed to be said and some light shed upon the data/facts.
I'm with you, stopped reading hot rod years ago. Hope you reconsider shipping me some big port 300/340 heads.
I have 4 sets 2 65 hi-po and 2 67 li-po
@@mr.roddersneighborhood2740 yes sir, I sent you an email about them. Also, I've read that you can use a 350 crank in a 300 block with slipper skirt pistons. Ever try this?
Look for an article online called “How to Hot Rod any engine” they give you the complete build. I have a complete set of 64 Aluminum heads I can sell and ship you much cheaper.
@@mr.roddersneighborhood2740 are the aluminum 300 heads the same as the 215 and Rover heads, because I have a pair each of those. I was under the impression the cast iron heads had bigger ports.
@@jdvintageauto2958 the 64 300 heads have smaller ports and smaller chambers. But the intakes are easier to find than the cast iron 4 bbl. The 65 300 head appears to have small chambers, big valves and big ports. I also have a 65 4 barrel intake manifold if you wanna go that route. Shoot me an email again (my email was hacked in April and I lost everything) and we can likely work something out if you want the heads and intake. They would cost a fortune to ship.
I had a Buick 350, converted it to EFI, it ran really well. Never had any issues getting parts. I’m glad we still have ‘run what you got’ people out there. If you have a 261 straight six Chevy or a 350 Buick or whatever, why not learn how to make power with what you have?
No they didn’t hit the nail on the head, Buick definitely did though! 😜
I had a buick 350 that i had pulled out of the junkyard…i found it in a ‘73 apollo to put into my ‘74 apollo….i struck gold cause when i opened it up it was literally a fresh rebuilt motor with flat top pistons and some kinda performance cam….i had windowed my 3 previous 350’s i had in that apollo but this one was custom hi-po built wolf in sheeps clothing… best $150 i ever spent….that motor was a hawg…i pulled it out of my apollo after about 3 years cause i thought it was developing a knock of some sort….after pulling it i later discovered it was only a hairline crack in the flexplate😖😖😖 but it was already too late because at that time i was already committed to a Chevy sbc swap and already had all the chevy stuff on hand….that car had been thru 6 motors to date…1) the origanal 350…2) junkyard 350…3)another junkyard (fresh hi-po rebuilt score) 350…..4) built aluminum headed sbc 355 …..5)4.8 LS swap……6) LSA supercharged 6.2 LS…….now im building a 408 LS stroker to replace the 6.2
I'd like to see someone Grand Nationalize a Buick 350! Make all of the stuff to make the 350 EFI, and then plumb in a turbo like the GNs have - or maybe proportionally bigger to compensate for the two extra cylinders. It would have to kick the GN 231's ass!
A few Buick 350s have been twin turbocharged and have made big power.
Always enjoy your videos Dallas.
Badass as always.
You tell'em brother.
That's like reading Rolling Stone to learn music theory.
NOTROD! LOL! Just as the nhra has become No HotRods Allowed! I have nothing to put it in but I would like to find a 350 Buick to mess with. My mom had a '71 LeSabre with a 350. The thing ran great and was a big luxury car that was pretty snappy!
Thank you for the history lesson Dallas!! Love the knowledge/history of the Buick engine...👍👍👍👍👍
Glad you enjoyed it
Magazines are just printed infomercials, if they cant sell you the newest wizbang gizmo they don't stay in business. If you look around the industry and see why things like an MSD are considered must-haves it comes back to this. People buy stuff that they don't know what it does or how works just that they NEED one or they won't have a good car.
With that said, I don't see Buick parts for sale in the magazine...
Car craft kind of took up the everyman low buck mantle. Hot Rod has been bucks up for years.
I like the way my 350 buick runs. its smooth and torqey...it pulls my 73 apollo around great...i have some factory speed parts for it...just adding a ajustable vacume advance and a accell electronic dist conversion helped alot...a mild cam and a factory 4bbl intake with some mild porting is next...quadrajet or a holley ??? What do you think mister rodder ??? Oh it has a t350 trans......#s matching car...
I’m a huge fan of the Q-Jet in a street application. If you go for a big hog ass cam… run the Holley. Q-Jets like good vacuum to meter properly and take quite a bit more work to get them to run good with a low vacuum signal.
I've had the same Buick 350 in my 72 Skylark going on 33 years. I've had opportunities to swap out to a Buick 455 but stood against it. If you take your time and put together the engine with the right combination of parts there's no denying that the Buick 350 is more than adequately powerful, has a ton of torque, and can easily hold it's own.
Mine is a 30-over zero decked '72 block, '75 crank and rods, 10.25:1 hyper-eutectic pistons, comp cams shafts and rockers, a .485in/.490ex cam with 114 deg of separation, a TA Performance 350 Stage1 intake, 1" carb spacer, a 800cfm Cadillac Q-Jet tuned for the 350, an HEI distributor with MSD internals and an Accell Supercoil, with an MSD 6AL limited to 5200rpm. Hooker Supercompetition headers and SuperTrapp 5a suppressors on the collectors finish it off. Backed by a pro-built TH350 and a 2800 stall. I've got a low compression '72 350 on an engine dolly that may become a turbo motor. Just have to wait and see.
I’m gonna do a turbo EFI combo on a bone stock Buick 350 here really soon, just to see how they do under pressure.
@@mr.roddersneighborhood2740 Tht'd be great to see, especially with a parts list. ;)
Stay tuned… I’m about to get to a point at work that I can have some time to dive into Project Boat Anchor soon. I’ll give the rundown on what parts and why.
You're enthusiasm makes me want to try the 350 HO in a Skyhawk. In '84 I used slightly modified 350HO pistons in an odd fire 231. Later I found an 80 turbo setup from a Regal, along with the high port heads and a Q-jet intake and carb from a Riviera and just added them. The only after market item was a Crane Fireball and custom pushrods, all stuffed in a 76 Sunbird 5sp. Never found the top end on the Kansas highways.
I believe the Buick 215 was a popular swap back int he day for Monzas and derivatives like your Skyhawk, the Sunbird and Firenza.
You live in Kansas? Come to Leavenworth and see a 1976 Skyhawk that's running an SBB350 since 1993!
New to the channel - great content brotha!
I feel the aggravation here. I’m an Olds guy and have to think outside the box to get the results I want. No hate to the mainstream builds like Chevy or Ford because they have a great aftermarket and it makes building accessible to enthusiasts. It’s just that building the low-support brands makes you a smarter engine builder. You can’t just throw trick parts and your wallet at a target HP. You have to think and plan and pick up some skills like porting and welding. I’ve considered building an AMC for this reason.
The AMC V8 like the 290 through 401 engine family is a long overlooked contender for quite a while but they are great engines and they have great power potential.
My wife has a pretty rowdy Buick 350 with pretty much the whole TA Performance catalog thrown at it with a 2004r in her Skylark and my basically stock rebuild SBC 406/th350 in my full size Bel Air pulls harder. The Buick sounds great and is nice to work on but it sure is expensive per horsepower. It may be a better base design but it's a hard sell for someone who wants to go fast on a reasonable budget. It's definitely an engine you choose for emotional reasons
11 psi Turbo Boost delivers 513 Hp from the Buick 350.
Not too bad.
Heads can be improved more I think by Full Race Porting.
The Term Porting is too Loosely worded on You Tube and internet.
Full Race Porting is my own terminology.
I desire 40 -100 cfm more than the Factory delivered.. What is needed to make a True Street Race or Drag engine No Boost, add boost power figures climb even higher.
Well said !
Thanks!
It's easy to upgrade a Buick 350 with mostly stock iron parts. A slightly bigger cam, flat top pistons, zero deck, cutting .05"- .1" off the heads, high volume oil pump kit, and a bit of work on the Q-jet and you could surprise a lot of people. The best year would probably be 1970 as later 350's were degraded with smog equipment.
I was just thinking about the 350 Buick and this kinda is how it went. If someone had a Chevelle and you looked at it and they said it has a 350 everyone says oh, nice, you gunna build it up, lots of choices! If someone pulled up in a Skylark and said it has a 350 in everyone said, are you going to put a 455 in it? Even if it was a GS350 everyone was oh too bad it's not a 455 car. So where does this come from, magazines, overshadowed by the big 455? Lack of knowledge or aftermarket support? I don't know honestly, even in my experience, it was always 455s even Stage1 and Stage 2 yes, real Stage 2. So we had Kenny Bell, Isky cams, an Edelbrock intake, and not much more. Was this worse with Oldsmobiles and better with Pontiac, not a reflection of anything other than performance parts and support? Thinking out loud here...
That one paragraph is exactly what's on wiki..
You old school hotrod...kinda mad scientist vibe..👍
Preach on Buick man!!
Pent roof cylinder head designs go way back to the old Buick straight 8s which could also be turned into some stout runners!
I did not know the straight 8’s were pent roof design. Thanks for the info!
I know the Buick 455 iron heads have Porting potential.
Unsure of Buick 350 iron heads.
To make it worthwhile to port Full Race you desire 40-100 cfm more.
Easily possible with near all Pontiac V8 iron heads 1968-1972 years
He was telling me earlier that the head to use is a big port 430 head instead of a 455 head. Apparently he's going to put a 400 together with those heads and take advantage of the added stiffness of the 400 casting to make power at higher rpms than a 430 or 455 would make with the same head. I really was impressed with his ideas. I definitely am going to lend him a hand with that build if he calls me up. I think some people are going to look at the Buick 400 differently if everything goes to plan. You gotta figure, the '69 Stg1 400 was rated 350hp where the 430s and 455s were rated 350-370hp from the factory.
Haters be hatin...
The article is actually in the September 2022 issue
Mr Rodder I need your help am doing a 1979 Monza spyder with a 3.2 v6 Buick am going to honing the cylinder ou,t the engine just going to be all stock again ,with cast rings ..and use the old pistons ,,,what grinding stones should I use 240 grits ore 180 grit..thanks
Around 11 psi you need a strong Aftermarket 4340 Connecting rods.
Turbo boost wants to S-bend near all stock Connecting rods
Personally I blame squirrels
Damn tree rats...
My experience what it boils down to get good results Boost you need at least 210 cfm intake flow at 28 inches.
230-250 cfm be ideal.
I've seen a few very fast 74 Apollo Stock Eliminator cars.
People dog on the Buick for the way the 350-455 exhaust ports stick out so far aiming down but in reality it's basically takes place of the beginning of the header and all engines headers practically aim 90° down after exiting the head so what's the difference. I'm not even a Buick guy not because I think they suck it's because I just haven't owned but i love regals and would rather have a 400 or 455 over a SBC same with the big olds in the cutlass supreme or the big Pontiac in a grand prix, they all perform if built right and are what should be in them vs gm just tossing a SBC in them in the 80s for cost reasons.
Where did you get 290hp for the 300? I have a 64 4bbl 11:0cr car. The '355 Wildcat' you mentioned. The manual claims 255hp 355tq. Good video, thanks for sharing.
I believe I read that in Team Buick forum years ago. The info could be wrong, but as far as I know the 65 355 Wildcat was 290hp. I’m not so sure what the 64 was. We are gonna find out soon enough because the 300 Buick mule engine I’m building is gonna dispel everything that’s not out there on what the lil’ brother is capable of.
@@mr.roddersneighborhood2740 I have a 65 manual as well. 65 has lower compression and it had less HP so the 64, according to the books, was the highest HP 300. I'm looking forward to seeing what numbers your engine produces. 🙂
I was under the impression that the high compression 300 4bbl was rated 260-280hp. Not too shabby, I don't think 290-300hp is out of line if everything goes together the way it should.
Just for Fun I did more Race Math .
35 psi Turbo Boost on a stock Buick 350 delivers 1000.5 Hp.
The only gripe is that there isn't as much aftermarket support, you have to know what you're doing because Buick's go together differently than an SBC, the bore spacing is a little tight and it could end up costing a lot past a certain power level.to build one. Johnny is a goof and only knows SBC and LS.
Can i mount the high performance rover heads on a 340??
Yes you can, the issue is the compression might be over 14:1. Math is your friend in this case.
Going to need some money to pull off a Turbocharged Buick 350 so it can live under Boost pressure.
Did some Race Math for You.
7 psi Boost will give 452 Hp on a Buick 350 near stock heads
The strange thing about most LS They waste alot of the potential airflow present in the heads up to LSX 3.
They Raise volumetric efficiency to Run decent abd strong on the street but still a fair margin from 100% VE.
LSs can make pretty good power for what they are with just stock heads and intake manifolds. Just need a cam+springs, headers, Tstat, NGK TR6s, maybe a thinner head gasket to up the compression and/or light milling. IMO the 5.3 706/862 heads are the best factory casting for a street car, they make an extra 15-20 ft/lbs for 1500-1800rpms in the mid range and give up less than 10hp for 300-500rpms at the very peak of the rpm band, the small valves and ports are more efficient and you can get some ot that HP back with a little work on the ports without having 2.02 valves fitted. This is on a stock 4.8/5.3/5.7/6.0 short block. Because the valve train is lighter there is less demand for upgraded valve train parts which can add up in a hurry, especially if you try to run Rec port L92/LS3 823/821 heads. You can just swap the cam and springs instead of needing pushrods, double springs, upgraded lifters, ti retainer and all the fancy parts as long as you keep the lift around .600" or less, once you push it to 0.625" lift and above and you're cammed to make peak power at 7000+ rpms all those issues return and with a street build there not enough power there to justify the added costs. Beyond a certain point it's more economical to use the sloppy turbo route and keep the basic engine you boost simple.
'Buick engines' are crap, the more that believe that statement means that true Buick fans will be able to pick up parts cheaper.
Every time these comics praise anything the prices skyrocket.
2 F1 world championship wins
Yeah the 1970 Buick sucked that's why the GSX is it was the fastest muscle car with the huge TQ, high HP is great n all but everyone knows on the street a TQ engine that will still make run strong up to 5500 is the way to go... On street TQ is king. The 87-95 5.0HO didn't even make 1 to 1 there about 260 gross that in the 90s
A main reason the SBC has such a large aftermarket is because it was so ***badly developed*** that it NEEDED an aftermarket, perhaps more so than almost any other engine. The best description I've heard of the SBC is that "in 1955 Chevrolet went on the open market to buy the absolute cheapest parts they could find, and when they assembled it, it happened to actually run." At Buick, Olds, and Pontiac the "good stuff" was available at the dealership parts counter, and designed by the people that designed the engine to begin with. Looking at Pontiac, with all the computer modeling today the best the aftermarket can do is to only **tweak** what Mac McKellar did more than 60 years ago with a slide rule, pencil, and the seat of his pants.
the fact is if the small block buick was any good there would be more people using them. they just arent a good hotrod motor just like the 318 mopar. the last good engine buick put out was the 455 stage engines and before that was the nail head which in my opinion was the best engine buick made.buicks just leak too much oil for me also.
OK, thanks for the views! Your watching the wrong channel then... see yourself out!
Buicks don't have oil problems. You're one of two people, either you just accept decades old myth without question, or you don't know how to build Buicks. The moment you hear a builder say Buick and HV oil pump in the same sentence, walk away.
Hot rod magazine has no credibility they are a joke.
The Top Engine builders have said in the past that The LS is based off of the Buick 350 block Blueprint specs.
The Heads are a near copycat of the Ford Yates Cleveland Heads.
Been said that GM Paid For Ransom like 100 million dollars in the late 1990s to not get sued by FORD
lazy hotrod magazine spouting half baked crap i know i have a bias but i prefer the 350 buick to the 350 chevy and i own both
There is no innovation in the current motoring press, just as sanctioning bodies all but outlaw it. Only lip service is paid to the non-auto-media approved engines some of us love. 40 or more articles (minimum) per year on LS and other Chevy stuff, but they will remind you that they gave a three-line blurb 7 months ago on an AMX actually powered by AMC, if you dare to suggest that they are doing their best (or worst) to inculcate a cookie-cutter mentality that is all LS-centric (or insert some other Chevy lump). That's why I gave up on the media I grew up consuming avidly. That's why there are so many gearheads hanging out on youTube, notwithstanding all of it's issues.
Just a minor correction for ya...The three manufacturers you mentioned are far from the only ones to have their engines run at Indy, in contradiction to your statement that the three were the only ones to run production based stuff at Indy. The first Indy 500 was won by a Marmon Wasp, modified somewhat compared to the one in the showroom, but still at core a production car. I won't get into Duesenbergs and the like, though they were automobile manufacturers, running production based engines.
Studebaker power ran at Indy at least twice; once via the (1928 - 1933...somewhere in there) straight-eight that was a modified production engine, and once as a legal "stock-block" entry when J.C. Agajanian got some DOHC 4valve heads made for the Stude V8 and ran it in '52.
Besides the "stock-block" Ford DOHC that broke Offenhauser's stranglehold and dominated Indy for a good while, flathead Ford V8s ran in slightly modified (by none other than Harry Miller, I believe) form in 1935.
And so on...
Wow, I had no idea that there were so many factory production engines within Indy Car, but it does make sense they would be within the early part of the industry.You sound super knowledgeable about this stuff and I'm glad you enjoyed the video...was it some good food for thought?
@@mr.roddersneighborhood2740 Yeah, good food for thought. Back in the day I knew a number of Buick owners, and I never heard a bad word about the smaller cube varieties from anyone that drove them a lot. Was curious about the lineage of small V8 Buicks, so glad that you covered that. I also wondered if they took some of the extreme measures (in my opinion) to lighten the iron small cube mills that they did to keep the 430/455 light. If they're as much lighter than SBCs as you said, that answers my question pretty distinctly.
Good stuff. David Dunbar Buick is probably giving you a small, tight smile, as undemonstrative as the Scots prefer to be.
To be clear, a hemi chamber would have allowed larger valves :-)
It’s a semi-hemispherical chamber and the valves are located in the top of the bore at a 15 degree angle. It’s a similar design to an LS engine that has the exact same size valves, which are dictated by the limits of the bore size.
Hey Mr. Rod can I get you to build my 455 on a budget
You sure can but, you must understand first… your engine may be on a budget, but my skills and time are not.
Somebody got their feelers hurt... There were plenty of other stock block Indy engines, besides the ones mentioned... Flathead Ford, Studebaker. Pontiac. Plymouth. Rambler inline six. Ad nauseam. Repco started with surplus Olds versions, with more head bolts, before switching to new in-house version. Open chamber, no-quench wedge, is nothing like a poly, or pentroof. Standing up the valves, without raising the ports, is a step backwards. Olds are 6 degrees, and flow poorly too. Where are the specs for 290hp? All I've ever seen is the 11:1 4bbl at 250hp.