I would like to thank you for all of your awesome and helpful videos. I’ve spent the last month watching all your videos and I’m finally caught up! It is amazing how much has changed in the 30 plus years I’ve been away from the hobby and am excited to get back into it.
May the Lord God bless ye, son! This is just what I needed to know. I'm extremely grateful. Who needs a booster? Not me! (I hope.) Seriously, this puts most of my concerns to rest. I was probably about to "overboost". Thanks so much, Larry.
Keep in mind smoke units take almost an amp by themselves though. I started with the NCE, with 4 locos it was ok.. until the second I tried to turn on a single smoke unit. Then the locos would cut out. So I added the 5 amp smart booster and haven't had a problem since. I have it switched to 13.8 volts ✌️
Hi Larry, another useful summary. Just for info I use an NCE Powercab plus a MERG booster (similar to Tam valley). Gives 5amps to two throttles driving 6 gauge 0 locos.
Ok.... about boosters. Does the signal from the command center go through the booster to the track and therefore be boosted or does the command and booster parallel to the track?
Good video Larry. If you could post the links you mention at the end of this, that would be even better! Power Districts wiring and Power Management is something Im keen to learn more about. EDIT, Oh my mistake, I see they're at top right of the screen!
This was an interesting one, Larry. I usually turn on the CCs in case I miss a word or so when you speak. This time when I turned the CC on, it was in Dutch. Yes, Dutch. I went to the settings and had it translated into English and the result was gibberish. So now we know when a computer translates from English into Dutch and back into English. the result will be nothing but gibberish. Just thought you might like to know. Fortunately, I still hear well enough not to rely on CCs.
Awesome! I use NCE for my DCC system. I have the SB5 for the booster/command. I may purchase a generic booster in the near future. Do you guys remember the "Loys Toy's" booster? That was one of the best units out there. Too bad they had to shut down years ago.
Hi Larry, Duncan at Tam Valley has Stage IV lung cancer. They also had another long time Tam employee pass away. They still have the boosters and frog juicers, but they have no parts for the rest of their products due to the world-wide electronics shortage and have discontinued many products. Looks like they currently have juicers and the boosters. I had settled on the octo for my turnouts, so sad to see that gone. Prayers for Duncan and the family.
Sad to hear that. Duncan has always been easy to work with when I had questions about his products. If he doesn’t make it hopefully the family will either carry on or sell the business to someone who will. I’ll be sure to mention this in my next video.
I love your work and your knowledge for DCC which brings me to a question. Will it work putting a AR1 to operate on a turn table? Or is there a better way for a turn table that isn’t DCC. Thanks
The traditional methods don’t work as well with DCC unless you are willing to lose power to the decoder momentarily and have sound cut out and then restart. I used a Dual Frog Juicer on my turntable and wrote about it in my book “Wiring Projects For Your Model Railroad”. There also was an article in MR a few years ago by Doug Kirkpatrick that showed his approach.
Question, I have a double decker 16X 26 layout, n Scale the bottom level will have signals. I plan to use on the bottom 2 PM 42's, 2 BDL 168's and 1 SC8C. I have a db150 will that be enough to power the lower level? The Upper level has DCS 200 and a dc200+ booster 1 runs half the upper and the booster runs the other. I used 14 gage wire. Would I be better getting a new Booster like the DB 210? The lower level is in the planning stage and no wires ran yet. Thanks for sharing!
As I said in the video you need to do the math. Add up all the milliamps your devices will require and see how close to the operating amperage of your booster it comes to. For N scale locos assume 250 milliamps each and remember they consume little power when just idling in a yard or siding. One thing I forgot to mention in the video is using something like the DCC Concepts Alpha Meter to actively monitor the output of your command station/booster so you know how close to the max you are getting. I showed how to install one in my system enclosure in videos #117-118. Note in those videos I installed a DCC Concepts Alpha Meter to monitor voltage and amperage of the DCC power bus. Using one of those will allow you to monitor your system output and see how close to the max you are getting.
Great DCC Command Station/Booster primer, thanks for sharing! To clarify, command stations and booster use is based on amperage, not length of bus around layout?
That basically is true. However special measures should be taken when power buses exceed 30’ in length. It is possible to set up you layout wiring in a star pattern with the wires radiating out from a central location and in the process keep under the 30’ limit. The other option is to twist the wires or use heavy gage zip cord which will mitigate most issues. You also need to use heavier wires on long runs to avoid voltage drops. See my videos on wiring.
There are individual videos on DCC wiring as well as the series I did on building the modules, laying track, and adding the wires. You just need to take the time to look through the listing on my TH-cam channel home page.
Using the Tam Valley booster will only get you more track amps whereas the SB5 will get you more amps plus expanded capabilities and free your throttle from needing to be connected all the time to the main panel. I mainly recommend the Tam Valley unit as an accessory DCC power bus for running accessory decoders, etc. That said some systems that do not offer boosters, such as Sprog or Digikeijs, could benefit most from the Tam Valley booster. If however you are perfectly happy with the capacities of the PowerCab then the Tam Valley booster may be a way to just get more amps at a relatively modest cost. It can be configured to either provide track power or accessory decoder power. You can download the manual from their website www.tamvalleydepot.com and the SB5 manual is available at www.ncedcc.com .
The CC is in Dutch! So funny. I have my volume way up because I am 80 % deaf. (My wife will be hollering at me soon! LOL) Great video in spite of the language! As usual!
I have no idea what goes on behind the curtains with TH-cam/Google. I figure somebody hits the wrong button and garbage comes out. I am just happy that all I have to do is make the videos and upload them and TH-cam takes care of the rest. Managing my old website was a constant headache dealing with weekly software updates and hackers.
The part that I haven't been able to figure out is what kind of bus system the command station uses. I'm familiar with the Ethernet protocol (either CD or CA) as well as various packet switching networks but I don't know what each manufacturer uses. My suspicion is that different manufacturers use different protocols and, that means there are pros and cons to each manufacturers bus system. Also, I don't know enough about the protocol on the DCC system. With it being "one way", I understand what is going on but what I don't know is how signals are repeated and how often. So if you issue a throttle change and you turn off the power to that section of track, then adjust the throttle, then turn the power on, does the engine remember the first speed or is the second speed repeated at some interval? And, does the NMRA standards dictate this or is this based upon what the manufacturer wants to do?
Welcome to DCC. Yes each manufacturer can do their own thing. And that goes for the bus and the timing of instructions. If you really want to get into it that deep then you probably should join the various groups on groups.io and dig in. One problem is that wit many decoder when power is interrupted the decoder reset to speed step 0. Then when the command station sent out an update it would return to the last set speed. It created a lurching effect much like learning how to drive with a clutch. Some decoders now have flash memory that stores the speed and will reset to the correct speed step. That is one reason to do the research and pick a brand you like then stick with it. However with a lot of locos you don’t get to choose the decoder type. I know some folks who will pull factory installed decoders and replace them with their choice just to maintain operating consistency.
It should and the new version has a built in usb port in case you want to connect to a computer to use DecoderPro. I have used my 20+ year old DT100 throttles with my DCS240 and UP5 panels with no problems.
Hi Larry (The DCC Guy). I'm a fairly recent subscriber to your TH-cam channel, and I find your videos interesting and valuable. I download pretty much all of them for future reference. I need some DCC assistance or advice. I model in "Finescale S," meaning 1:64 model railroading, but no American Flyer and no "high-rail" either. I, and other S scalers such as myself, use the latest NASG-NMRA track and wheel standards, with prototypically-scaled rail. and near prototypically-scaled dimensions for wheel width and flanges. I use code 100 rail for my main lines, mostly code 83 for sidings and code 70 for my limited narrow gauge and dual gauge sidings. My layout is under construction, and is modular or sectional so that I can take it to train shows and display and promote "Finescale S," as I did this past weekend, up in Farmington, Utah, at the "Intermountain Train Expo." My layout as it presently stands does not have curved sections yet, but has 40' of straight sections, with some interesting trackwork. There is a local American Flyer club that also always displays at these shows (Golden Spike American Flyer Club), and while they are friendly enough, our equipment is not mutually compatible. We might as well be N scale and O scale. Many years ago one of the prominent S scale dealers had a plug on the web site for DCC, and in particular, Lenz DCC. Having zero experience at that point with DCC, I bought a Lenz starter set from them at the time. I had also purchased from them a really nice A-B set of DCC-equipped F-3s, and I also converted a couple of brass steamers with Tsunami decoders. My new Lenz DCC system was working just fine at that time, though I didn't get too deeply involved in the more sophisticated aspects of DCC or the capabilities of my Lenz system. But my DCC-equipped locos at the time worked well on my Lenz-powered DCC system, and I was happy with it. I also routinely adjusted my decoder CVs, to optimize operation. All that worked fine. But circumstances being what they have been, I haven't used my DCC system or even operated trains for a considerable period of time since then, though I have continued to build, acquire, or otherwise work on my S scale equipment. But this past weel at the NMRA Intermountain Train Expo, I couldn't get my DCC system to work at all, so I just ran my yet unconverted locos using DC. Formerly, I used the AC leads on my 60-year-old MRC power pack as a power source for my DCC system, which worked fine. However this past summer my 60-year-old MRC power pack finally died, so I bought a "new" (used) MRC power pack off of Ebay. It had a more modernized plastic case, but it seemed to be otherwise the same as what my old (copper colored) MRC power pack had, as far as features and electrical feeds, etc. At any rate the new MRC power pack runs my DC locos just fine. But I don't know if the DCC failure to operate is somehow the fault of the "new" MRC power pack or not. When I hook up the DCC system, and turn the power pack on, the readout on the controller seems normal, and I can call up a loco number etc, but I can't get any movement or sounds from the locomotive I'm trying to control. The "E" on the read out is blinking, which it doesn't do during normal operations, and I cannot find where in my instruction manual what the blinking "E" is supposed to mean. Also on the command station, the little red LED is blinking, which I know is indicating something not right. According to the manual, this blinking red LED indicates either a short in the track work, or else insufficient power from the power source. But the manual also says that pretty much any power source is sufficient to at least test the system or run one loco. To try to rule out a short, I took a length of flex track not connected to anything else, and connected this to the DCC track output, and tried to make the loco go. Same result, no effect, so that seemed to rule out a short in the track work on my modules. So that is where I stand, and I don't know if the problem is very, very minor, or a broken Lenz DCC system. I also can't find anywhere on line where I can talk about and hopefully troubleshoot Lenz DCC systems. I did find up there at the train show that NO ONE new anything about Lenz, to help me troubleshoot, but that most of the operators there knew all about, and used, Digitrax. You probably don't know too much about the Lenz system (forgive me if I am wrong on that), but you do know a lot about Digitrax. Most of the other model railroaders I spoke with at the show do Digitrax, though some of them say that others that they know love their NCE systems. But at any rate, it would be nice to know others who operate on the same system as I do. I could find no useful videos on TH-cam about the Lenz system, so all I can figure to do is to continue to study the Lenz operating manuals, and putter around with my system, to perhaps where it will finally work. I don't know. As far as operational requirements, let me say this: If I am successful in completing (more or less) my eventual sectional layout master plan, I will have two standard guage parallel mainlines, one narrow gauge line, and a couple of locations for yard or other switching activities. Eventually I hope to run simultaneously an A-B-B-A lashup on one mainline, and perhaps a large steam double header on the other mainline, for example, along with a narrow gauge steamer, and perhaps some other locomotive activities on the layout, so I guess eventually I hope to be able to run up to 8-10 locos at the same time. S locos pull more current than an HO loco, but not a lot more. To accomplish this, I expect I'll need from 3-5 controllers, which I hope to be wireless. My corded Lenz controller was fine with only three 6' layout sections, but I've already outgrown that now. So I know that even if I do keep my Lenz system, the capabilities will have to be expended when my ultimate layout may approach completion. But I'm not sure if I want to stay with Lenz. So you see I am considering replacing the Lenz System even if I do get it to work. But I don't want to spend money or effort needlessly. I thank you if you have waded through all this, but I'm curious to see what you would recommend to me, and what ultimate DCC system you might suggest that would handle the operating requirements described above. Thank you so much for your TH-cam channel, and the wonderful information you impart. Please keep up the good work!
OK, I just scanned your question and it seems you have dome what I would have suggested as far as initial tests of the Lenz system. I used to have a Lenz system but sold it after they left the US market about 20 years ago. It sounds as though it is flashing an error code with the E. Unfortunately I gave away my Lenz manuals with the system when I sold it. First can you find someone with a DCC layout to confirm your decoders are still working? Can you use a voltmeter set on AC to check the track power from the Lenz system to make sure it is putting out the correct voltage?
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for responding. I live in a small town in a fairly isolated area, so it is hard to get assistance for testing and such. Like I said, at the train show I attended last week nobody there knew anything about Lenz--they werre pretty much all Digitrax guys, with some NCE, plus nobody there does S, except for American Flyer, and our electronic systems are quite different. I will have to eventually expand my DCC system as my modular railroad grows, and I'm not interested in expanding my Lenz system, even if I do get my basic starter set to work again. But until that time, I would like my existing system to work, if possible. I did put DC power to my track some months ago, and my DCC-equipped locos did respond with sound, besides, since they were all working before, they can't all be bad. I guess I am really in the market when I can afford it for a good Digitrax or NCE system. Both the NCE and Digitrax guys that I know really like their respective systems. But meanwhile I'll try to find out what the flashing "E" means, and to verify the proper hook up of my electrical connections. But is there any possibility that my new (old) MRC power pack is not putting out sufficient AC power to ren even one loco on my Lenz system? I would doubt that, but I don't know. Meanwhile, if you can suggest some real good reasons to go with either NCE or Digitrax, I'd appreciate it. I'm inclined towards NCE, but then perhaps my reasons are not terribly sound. Thanks so much. Your YT channel is super
The DCC Concepts 5 amp Booster works PERFECT with the NCE Power Cab. Why would I Pay $200 for the NCE Booster when the Super High Quality DCC Concepts is $100? Higher Quality in my humble opinion as well.
Another good, clear video - thanks for taking them time to do these. A tangential question, since you mentioned the scale switch on the Digitrax command stations: what would happen if it were accidentally set to the wrong scale, e.g. if you have a visiting grandchildren who likes to flick every switch they come across. Presumably if you had an O scale layout and it got switched to N, that wouldn't be a problem - it'd just be a bit underpowered? But vice versa?
The result would be a higher a higher or lower on track voltage resulting in proportionally higher or lower speeds. In some cases with decoders that do not use voltage regulator circuits for functions you might even blow a headlight. I have known modelers who set theirs to the N scale setting for HO operations. I often preach that it is a good idea to put your DCC equipment in enclosures to prevent little fingers from exploring you toggles and wires, as well as to prevent dust buildup and keep them cooler. I did a 2 part video (#107-108) on building such an enclosure.
Ok, I've heard numerous anecdotal stories from people with large layouts running heavy current loads due to numerous trains at once (say 8 or more rains with MUed locomotives, including long passenger trains with lighted coaches - lets say 10 lighted coaches per passenger train) that many problems are resolved when the command station is simply used as a command station, The general storyline is that as the command station approaches is current limit errors become more prevalent so the Rail A and Rail B connections are removed so the only contact the command station has with the layout is through the Loconet terminals and the programming track output. All layout rail power is then provided by the boosters only and the layout becomes much more reliable with very few errors, no shutdowns etc.. Would you care to offer commentary on this, either way?
The only experience I have had with that situation is a friend with a LARGE basement layout powered by a single DS240 rated at 8 amps. We have never had any issues even when operating numerous trains however since he does not have any way to monitor amperage I have no idea how close to the max we get but the next time we operate I plant to install a meter on it just to get a idea. That said the fact that as one approaches the operating limits of the command station/booster would result in possible issues is not surprising to me and the solution you suggest is reasonable. Being thrifty (cheap) I think I would try using the command station output on a section of the layout that would require less power and therefore reserve most of its capacity for being the brains of the operation. I think most folks don’t experience this problem because they tend to overbuy when it comes to boosters and power is rarely a limitation. One option is to install a DCC Concepts Alpha Meter to monitor voltage and amperage of the DCC command station/booster. Using one of those will allow you to monitor your system output and see how close to the max you are getting.
@10.15 mins - Way out of date Larry. Lenz haven’t produced a separate stand alone Command Station for 15 years or more. They combined the LV100 Command Station with its matching Booster, into the LZV100 in the early mid 00’s. However, NCE still make a stand alone Command Station (without a built-in booster).
Rob, thanks for that info. One thing I learned a while ago is to never rule out anything when making statements like that. Manufacturers are constantly making changes to their product line and you never know what what may be lurking in the shadows.
Another thing to consider with boosters is unrelated to the actual power consumption: the number of stations on the layout. Whenever someone fouls a switch or a derailment causes a short, the power goes out in the entire booster district. Even if it comes back on automatically, it's pretty confusing, especially if the person causing the short is far away from you. It can be frustrating when that happens. Sometimes you just don't know if the booster cut power due to a short or your engine has simply stalled on a dirty section of track. That's why we try to set up one booster per station on our modular layouts. When something goes wrong it's usually in a station and it's a lot easier to quickly figure out what's going on when everyone in your booster district is right next to you.
For a home layout I recommend using fast acting circuit breakers such as the PSX series from DCC Specialties. I have a PSX-4 that protects 4 blocks all fed by a single DCS240 running at 8 amps. One PSX-4 is a lot cheaper than a command station and 3 boosters.
So... One train with back-to-back locos and maybe a switcher in the yard... 1.5 amps. Thank you, sir, you just saved me a good chuck of money! :-)
I would like to thank you for all of your awesome and helpful videos. I’ve spent the last month watching all your videos and I’m finally caught up! It is amazing how much has changed in the 30 plus years I’ve been away from the hobby and am excited to get back into it.
VERY INFORMATIVE!!! Thank you for sharing your knowledge 👍🏾
May the Lord God bless ye, son! This is just what I needed to know. I'm extremely grateful. Who needs a booster? Not me! (I hope.) Seriously, this puts most of my concerns to rest. I was probably about to "overboost". Thanks so much, Larry.
Thank you Larry, what a good concise Analysis of DCC Command and Booster Units. You always make it so easy to understand, Thanks.
Keep in mind smoke units take almost an amp by themselves though. I started with the NCE, with 4 locos it was ok.. until the second I tried to turn on a single smoke unit. Then the locos would cut out. So I added the 5 amp smart booster and haven't had a problem since. I have it switched to 13.8 volts ✌️
Brilliant Larry,thank you
Hi Larry, another useful summary.
Just for info I use an NCE Powercab plus a MERG booster (similar to Tam valley). Gives 5amps to two throttles driving 6 gauge 0 locos.
Thank you for sharing. Enjoyed.
Thank you for the intro to SPROG. I was looking for a better way than the Digitrax PR4 to create a programming only track for JMRI.
Question, what about DCC-EX that would also be a command station
Replaced all my Digitrax equipment with Digikeijs equipment this year. Couldn't be more pleased with the DR5000.
They seem to be a popular option. I’m in the process of finding time to delve into the details of mine.
Great video as I am new to the hobby and I have gotten a lot of information from your videos
Ok.... about boosters. Does the signal from the command center go through the booster to the track and therefore be boosted or does the command and booster parallel to the track?
Yes, the DCC signal is sent to the booster and there it is boosted to track voltage.
Good video Larry. If you could post the links you mention at the end of this, that would be even better! Power Districts wiring and Power Management is something Im keen to learn more about.
EDIT, Oh my mistake, I see they're at top right of the screen!
This was an interesting one, Larry. I usually turn on the CCs in case I miss a word or so when you speak. This time when I turned the CC on, it was in Dutch. Yes, Dutch. I went to the settings and had it translated into English and the result was gibberish. So now we know when a computer translates from English into Dutch and back into English. the result will be nothing but gibberish. Just thought you might like to know. Fortunately, I still hear well enough not to rely on CCs.
Maybe Larry's pronunciation of the DR5000 was just that good 😁
Awesome! I use NCE for my DCC system. I have the SB5 for the booster/command. I may purchase a generic booster in the near future. Do you guys remember the "Loys Toy's" booster? That was one of the best units out there. Too bad they had to shut down years ago.
Hi Larry, Duncan at Tam Valley has Stage IV lung cancer. They also had another long time Tam employee pass away. They still have the boosters and frog juicers, but they have no parts for the rest of their products due to the world-wide electronics shortage and have discontinued many products. Looks like they currently have juicers and the boosters. I had settled on the octo for my turnouts, so sad to see that gone. Prayers for Duncan and the family.
Sad to hear that. Duncan has always been easy to work with when I had questions about his products. If he doesn’t make it hopefully the family will either carry on or sell the business to someone who will. I’ll be sure to mention this in my next video.
@@TheDCCGuy The announcement is on their front page. Looks like they’ve already spun off at least one product.
Thanks Larry!.
I love your work and your knowledge for DCC which brings me to a question. Will it work putting a AR1 to operate on a turn table? Or is there a better way for a turn table that isn’t DCC. Thanks
The traditional methods don’t work as well with DCC unless you are willing to lose power to the decoder momentarily and have sound cut out and then restart. I used a Dual Frog Juicer on my turntable and wrote about it in my book “Wiring Projects For Your Model Railroad”. There also was an article in MR a few years ago by Doug Kirkpatrick that showed his approach.
Very fine explanations! Thanks!
Question, I have a double decker 16X 26 layout, n Scale the bottom level will have signals. I plan to use on the bottom 2 PM 42's, 2 BDL 168's and 1 SC8C. I have a db150 will that be enough to power the lower level? The Upper level has DCS 200 and a dc200+ booster 1 runs half the upper and the booster runs the other. I used 14 gage wire. Would I be better getting a new Booster like the DB 210? The lower level is in the planning stage and no wires ran yet. Thanks for sharing!
As I said in the video you need to do the math. Add up all the milliamps your devices will require and see how close to the operating amperage of your booster it comes to. For N scale locos assume 250 milliamps each and remember they consume little power when just idling in a yard or siding. One thing I forgot to mention in the video is using something like the DCC Concepts Alpha Meter to actively monitor the output of your command station/booster so you know how close to the max you are getting. I showed how to install one in my system enclosure in videos #117-118. Note in those videos I installed a DCC Concepts Alpha Meter to monitor voltage and amperage of the DCC power bus. Using one of those will allow you to monitor your system output and see how close to the max you are getting.
Great DCC Command Station/Booster primer, thanks for sharing! To clarify, command stations and booster use is based on amperage, not length of bus around layout?
That basically is true. However special measures should be taken when power buses exceed 30’ in length. It is possible to set up you layout wiring in a star pattern with the wires radiating out from a central location and in the process keep under the 30’ limit. The other option is to twist the wires or use heavy gage zip cord which will mitigate most issues. You also need to use heavier wires on long runs to avoid voltage drops. See my videos on wiring.
I am starting a new layout using Atlas true track. What videos do you have to show me how to wire for dcc?
There are individual videos on DCC wiring as well as the series I did on building the modules, laying track, and adding the wires. You just need to take the time to look through the listing on my TH-cam channel home page.
Would the Tam Valley booster work with a Power Cab or is an SB5 better?
Using the Tam Valley booster will only get you more track amps whereas the SB5 will get you more amps plus expanded capabilities and free your throttle from needing to be connected all the time to the main panel. I mainly recommend the Tam Valley unit as an accessory DCC power bus for running accessory decoders, etc. That said some systems that do not offer boosters, such as Sprog or Digikeijs, could benefit most from the Tam Valley booster. If however you are perfectly happy with the capacities of the PowerCab then the Tam Valley booster may be a way to just get more amps at a relatively modest cost. It can be configured to either provide track power or accessory decoder power. You can download the manual from their website www.tamvalleydepot.com and the SB5 manual is available at www.ncedcc.com .
Could the Tam Valley booster be an option if I wanted to run a lighting power bus for scenery lighting with DCC power, but not using decoders?
@@markmatteo2417 Yes, that’s one of the primary design functions.
@@TheDCCGuy So would I need a bridge rectifier for scenery LED lighting if I don't use accessory decoders? Thanks and Merry Christmas!
@@markmatteo2417 Yes, that would be one but you can also install a 12VDC or 5 VDC bus under the layout and use it for lighting and other accessories.
The CC is in Dutch! So funny. I have my volume way up because I am 80 % deaf. (My wife will be hollering at me soon! LOL) Great video in spite of the language! As usual!
I have no idea what goes on behind the curtains with TH-cam/Google. I figure somebody hits the wrong button and garbage comes out. I am just happy that all I have to do is make the videos and upload them and TH-cam takes care of the rest. Managing my old website was a constant headache dealing with weekly software updates and hackers.
The part that I haven't been able to figure out is what kind of bus system the command station uses. I'm familiar with the Ethernet protocol (either CD or CA) as well as various packet switching networks but I don't know what each manufacturer uses. My suspicion is that different manufacturers use different protocols and, that means there are pros and cons to each manufacturers bus system.
Also, I don't know enough about the protocol on the DCC system. With it being "one way", I understand what is going on but what I don't know is how signals are repeated and how often.
So if you issue a throttle change and you turn off the power to that section of track, then adjust the throttle, then turn the power on, does the engine remember the first speed or is the second speed repeated at some interval? And, does the NMRA standards dictate this or is this based upon what the manufacturer wants to do?
Welcome to DCC. Yes each manufacturer can do their own thing. And that goes for the bus and the timing of instructions. If you really want to get into it that deep then you probably should join the various groups on groups.io and dig in. One problem is that wit many decoder when power is interrupted the decoder reset to speed step 0. Then when the command station sent out an update it would return to the last set speed. It created a lurching effect much like learning how to drive with a clutch. Some decoders now have flash memory that stores the speed and will reset to the correct speed step. That is one reason to do the research and pick a brand you like then stick with it. However with a lot of locos you don’t get to choose the decoder type. I know some folks who will pull factory installed decoders and replace them with their choice just to maintain operating consistency.
Larry, not sure why, but the captions for this video only are in Dutch ;-) Great video, it turned out I did not need the captions. Whew!!
will a 210 work with a ut4 though a up5
It should and the new version has a built in usb port in case you want to connect to a computer to use DecoderPro. I have used my 20+ year old DT100 throttles with my DCS240 and UP5 panels with no problems.
@@TheDCCGuy thank you for all the help you have done for us you are the man
Hi Larry (The DCC Guy). I'm a fairly recent subscriber to your TH-cam channel, and I find your videos interesting and valuable. I download pretty much all of them for future reference.
I need some DCC assistance or advice. I model in "Finescale S," meaning 1:64 model railroading, but no American Flyer and no "high-rail" either. I, and other S scalers such as myself, use the latest NASG-NMRA track and wheel standards, with prototypically-scaled rail. and near prototypically-scaled dimensions for wheel width and flanges. I use code 100 rail for my main lines, mostly code 83 for sidings and code 70 for my limited narrow gauge and dual gauge sidings.
My layout is under construction, and is modular or sectional so that I can take it to train shows and display and promote "Finescale S," as I did this past weekend, up in Farmington, Utah, at the "Intermountain Train Expo." My layout as it presently stands does not have curved sections yet, but has 40' of straight sections, with some interesting trackwork. There is a local American Flyer club that also always displays at these shows (Golden Spike American Flyer Club), and while they are friendly enough, our equipment is not mutually compatible. We might as well be N scale and O scale.
Many years ago one of the prominent S scale dealers had a plug on the web site for DCC, and in particular, Lenz DCC. Having zero experience at that point with DCC, I bought a Lenz starter set from them at the time. I had also purchased from them a really nice A-B set of DCC-equipped F-3s, and I also converted a couple of brass steamers with Tsunami decoders.
My new Lenz DCC system was working just fine at that time, though I didn't get too deeply involved in the more sophisticated aspects of DCC or the capabilities of my Lenz system. But my DCC-equipped locos at the time worked well on my Lenz-powered DCC system, and I was happy with it. I also routinely adjusted my decoder CVs, to optimize operation. All that worked fine.
But circumstances being what they have been, I haven't used my DCC system or even operated trains for a considerable period of time since then, though I have continued to build, acquire, or otherwise work on my S scale equipment.
But this past weel at the NMRA Intermountain Train Expo, I couldn't get my DCC system to work at all, so I just ran my yet unconverted locos using DC.
Formerly, I used the AC leads on my 60-year-old MRC power pack as a power source for my DCC system, which worked fine. However this past summer my 60-year-old MRC power pack finally died, so I bought a "new" (used) MRC power pack off of Ebay. It had a more modernized plastic case, but it seemed to be otherwise the same as what my old (copper colored) MRC power pack had, as far as features and electrical feeds, etc. At any rate the new MRC power pack runs my DC locos just fine. But I don't know if the DCC failure to operate is somehow the fault of the "new" MRC power pack or not.
When I hook up the DCC system, and turn the power pack on, the readout on the controller seems normal, and I can call up a loco number etc, but I can't get any movement or sounds from the locomotive I'm trying to control. The "E" on the read out is blinking, which it doesn't do during normal operations, and I cannot find where in my instruction manual what the blinking "E" is supposed to mean. Also on the command station, the little red LED is blinking, which I know is indicating something not right. According to the manual, this blinking red LED indicates either a short in the track work, or else insufficient power from the power source. But the manual also says that pretty much any power source is sufficient to at least test the system or run one loco. To try to rule out a short, I took a length of flex track not connected to anything else, and connected this to the DCC track output, and tried to make the loco go. Same result, no effect, so that seemed to rule out a short in the track work on my modules.
So that is where I stand, and I don't know if the problem is very, very minor, or a broken Lenz DCC system. I also can't find anywhere on line where I can talk about and hopefully troubleshoot Lenz DCC systems.
I did find up there at the train show that NO ONE new anything about Lenz, to help me troubleshoot, but that most of the operators there knew all about, and used, Digitrax.
You probably don't know too much about the Lenz system (forgive me if I am wrong on that), but you do know a lot about Digitrax.
Most of the other model railroaders I spoke with at the show do Digitrax, though some of them say that others that they know love their NCE systems. But at any rate, it would be nice to know others who operate on the same system as I do.
I could find no useful videos on TH-cam about the Lenz system, so all I can figure to do is to continue to study the Lenz operating manuals, and putter around with my system, to perhaps where it will finally work. I don't know.
As far as operational requirements, let me say this: If I am successful in completing (more or less) my eventual sectional layout master plan, I will have two standard guage parallel mainlines, one narrow gauge line, and a couple of locations for yard or other switching activities. Eventually I hope to run simultaneously an A-B-B-A lashup on one mainline, and perhaps a large steam double header on the other mainline, for example, along with a narrow gauge steamer, and perhaps some other locomotive activities on the layout, so I guess eventually I hope to be able to run up to 8-10 locos at the same time. S locos pull more current than an HO loco, but not a lot more. To accomplish this, I expect I'll need from 3-5 controllers, which I hope to be wireless. My corded Lenz controller was fine with only three 6' layout sections, but I've already outgrown that now.
So I know that even if I do keep my Lenz system, the capabilities will have to be expended when my ultimate layout may approach completion. But I'm not sure if I want to stay with Lenz.
So you see I am considering replacing the Lenz System even if I do get it to work. But I don't want to spend money or effort needlessly.
I thank you if you have waded through all this, but I'm curious to see what you would recommend to me, and what ultimate DCC system you might suggest that would handle the operating requirements described above.
Thank you so much for your TH-cam channel, and the wonderful information you impart. Please keep up the good work!
OK, I just scanned your question and it seems you have dome what I would have suggested as far as initial tests of the Lenz system. I used to have a Lenz system but sold it after they left the US market about 20 years ago. It sounds as though it is flashing an error code with the E. Unfortunately I gave away my Lenz manuals with the system when I sold it. First can you find someone with a DCC layout to confirm your decoders are still working? Can you use a voltmeter set on AC to check the track power from the Lenz system to make sure it is putting out the correct voltage?
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for responding. I live in a small town in a fairly isolated area, so it is hard to get assistance for testing and such. Like I said, at the train show I attended last week nobody there knew anything about Lenz--they werre pretty much all Digitrax guys, with some NCE, plus nobody there does S, except for American Flyer, and our electronic systems are quite different. I will have to eventually expand my DCC system as my modular railroad grows, and I'm not interested in expanding my Lenz system, even if I do get my basic starter set to work again. But until that time, I would like my existing system to work, if possible. I did put DC power to my track some months ago, and my DCC-equipped locos did respond with sound, besides, since they were all working before, they can't all be bad. I guess I am really in the market when I can afford it for a good Digitrax or NCE system. Both the NCE and Digitrax guys that I know really like their respective systems. But meanwhile I'll try to find out what the flashing "E" means, and to verify the proper hook up of my electrical connections. But is there any possibility that my new (old) MRC power pack is not putting out sufficient AC power to ren even one loco on my Lenz system? I would doubt that, but I don't know. Meanwhile, if you can suggest some real good reasons to go with either NCE or Digitrax, I'd appreciate it. I'm inclined towards NCE, but then perhaps my reasons are not terribly sound. Thanks so much. Your YT channel is super
The DCC Concepts 5 amp Booster works PERFECT with the NCE Power Cab. Why would I Pay $200 for the NCE Booster when the Super High Quality DCC Concepts is $100? Higher Quality in my humble opinion as well.
Another good, clear video - thanks for taking them time to do these.
A tangential question, since you mentioned the scale switch on the Digitrax command stations: what would happen if it were accidentally set to the wrong scale, e.g. if you have a visiting grandchildren who likes to flick every switch they come across. Presumably if you had an O scale layout and it got switched to N, that wouldn't be a problem - it'd just be a bit underpowered? But vice versa?
The result would be a higher a higher or lower on track voltage resulting in proportionally higher or lower speeds. In some cases with decoders that do not use voltage regulator circuits for functions you might even blow a headlight. I have known modelers who set theirs to the N scale setting for HO operations. I often preach that it is a good idea to put your DCC equipment in enclosures to prevent little fingers from exploring you toggles and wires, as well as to prevent dust buildup and keep them cooler. I did a 2 part video (#107-108) on building such an enclosure.
Super video😍😉🇨🇿👍🍻🚂
NCE makes a 5 amp command /booster station
To many shorts killed my db 150
Ok, I've heard numerous anecdotal stories from people with large layouts running heavy current loads due to numerous trains at once (say 8 or more rains with MUed locomotives, including long passenger trains with lighted coaches - lets say 10 lighted coaches per passenger train) that many problems are resolved when the command station is simply used as a command station, The general storyline is that as the command station approaches is current limit errors become more prevalent so the Rail A and Rail B connections are removed so the only contact the command station has with the layout is through the Loconet terminals and the programming track output. All layout rail power is then provided by the boosters only and the layout becomes much more reliable with very few errors, no shutdowns etc.. Would you care to offer commentary on this, either way?
The only experience I have had with that situation is a friend with a LARGE basement layout powered by a single DS240 rated at 8 amps. We have never had any issues even when operating numerous trains however since he does not have any way to monitor amperage I have no idea how close to the max we get but the next time we operate I plant to install a meter on it just to get a idea. That said the fact that as one approaches the operating limits of the command station/booster would result in possible issues is not surprising to me and the solution you suggest is reasonable. Being thrifty (cheap) I think I would try using the command station output on a section of the layout that would require less power and therefore reserve most of its capacity for being the brains of the operation. I think most folks don’t experience this problem because they tend to overbuy when it comes to boosters and power is rarely a limitation. One option is to install a DCC Concepts Alpha Meter to monitor voltage and amperage of the DCC command station/booster. Using one of those will allow you to monitor your system output and see how close to the max you are getting.
Larger NTrak and Free-Mo setups generally use a dedicated DCS240 with no load on it as a command station for thermal management reasons.
@10.15 mins - Way out of date Larry. Lenz haven’t produced a separate stand alone Command Station for 15 years or more.
They combined the LV100 Command Station with its matching Booster, into the LZV100 in the early mid 00’s.
However, NCE still make a stand alone Command Station (without a built-in booster).
Rob, thanks for that info. One thing I learned a while ago is to never rule out anything when making statements like that. Manufacturers are constantly making changes to their product line and you never know what what may be lurking in the shadows.
I was going to say NCE. They sell it standalone and as part of a package with a separate 10A booster for O/G scale.
👍🏻
Another thing to consider with boosters is unrelated to the actual power consumption: the number of stations on the layout. Whenever someone fouls a switch or a derailment causes a short, the power goes out in the entire booster district. Even if it comes back on automatically, it's pretty confusing, especially if the person causing the short is far away from you. It can be frustrating when that happens. Sometimes you just don't know if the booster cut power due to a short or your engine has simply stalled on a dirty section of track.
That's why we try to set up one booster per station on our modular layouts. When something goes wrong it's usually in a station and it's a lot easier to quickly figure out what's going on when everyone in your booster district is right next to you.
For a home layout I recommend using fast acting circuit breakers such as the PSX series from DCC Specialties. I have a PSX-4 that protects 4 blocks all fed by a single DCS240 running at 8 amps. One PSX-4 is a lot cheaper than a command station and 3 boosters.