Uncompressed vs Compressed vs Lossless RAW: The Differences on the Sony A7RV
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ม.ค. 2023
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Mate, it took forever to find the exact information you presented. No one else specifically mentions how much MP Uncompressed, Compressed and Lossless Comp. have. Subbed.
If there’s anything else you need to know check out the rest of the videos or let me know, if i can make a video for it then i will 👌🏻 appreciate the support
The lower resolution is quite useful for timelapse photography or if you are running out of space. I am glad this feature is included, because all I need is great 4k image for timelapse. Just don't forget to switch it back to 61mp :-)
Feels like there should be options between 61 and 26 mpxl. That's a massive jump.
61, 49, 37, 26, 15 mpxl options would have been a better option.
Wouldn’t.
Normal size is 9504 x 6336
The M size is basically 9504/1.5 x 6336/1.5
The S size is 9504/2 x 6336/2
Using any other dividers would make the algorithm more difficult and it could lead to issues with demosaicing algorithms…
Also for low light you are going to get less noise shooting in M with the 26.1MP which is going to save you file space as well and still provide great detail. This is by far the most versatile camera out there right now IMO because you get the 61MP when you want it but also can have the low light performance and file space of roughly an A7IV.
There’s so much to do with this camera, I just hope Sony don’t rush even more cameras out and forget about it
Very well explained ! Thanks
Thanks dude!! Thanks for watching!
ik this video is a bit dated, but I've been watching some of your videos lately and never realized that ur a relatively smaller creator. The quality and content outshines SO MANY big creators and this is REFRESHING.
keep it up!
I’m a very small fish in a giant ocean right now 😅 your comment means a lot 👏🏼 thanks
Does using A7RV lower resolution compressed raw file format (S) yield better low light performance than using the higher resolution raw file format (M, L and uncompressed)? Thanks in advance.
Quality wise is lossless raw Large and uncompressed raw the exact same?
I shoot a lot of music gigs and concerts where the light is low and unpredictable. This video has helped me realise that shooting in Medium Uncompressed with its 26.1 MP would work better than shooting in uncompressed with its 61 MP. I have that right?
maybe should test it on the +/-ev on the lightroom editing for each file, it seems to can tell the raw type difference?
answering your question why would you buy a7r5 if you don't shoot full resolution...for weddings, i put in Lossless M or Small, it;s more than enough :)
great video!
Thanks! I learned a ton and appreciate your help. I will probably never use "lossless" but will use compressed and uncompressed as shadows dictate. Cheers!
It’s my absolute pleasure!! Enjoy the camera and thanks for watching
Is there a way to compress an uncompressed file when importing?
Thanks Danny very helpful
to answer your question 'why would you buy a A7R5 if you don't want 61mp'
I like the rear screen plus improved ibis - metering and auto wb. I figure that I can always shoot the 61mp when I want to crop or use crop mode '30mp' so in a way Id get extra reach from my lens. I intend to get the Tamron 20 - 40mm so I in theory get a 60mm at 30mp 👍
Oh absolutely!! The ability to crop is amazing. But you’d never want to do that if using Lossless S 😂 you’d be at something like 6mp 👌🏻 thanks for the continuous support Mark! Genuinely means a lot to see you watching the videos each week
@@DannyBligh no problems - you and Sam kill it Danny. Nice to hear my accent on YT
@@DannyBlighi Danny, in response to your comment about cropping Lossless Small… isn’t the file going to be the same size and MP when cropping? I just tested this and both the cropped and uncropped shots were the same file size.
@@photo1111 so when I tested lossless, the Large is a smaller file size to uncompressed but still 61mp.
When shooting in M or S you don’t have a crop but you are losing resolution. I can’t recall the numbers off the top of my head but you have the exact same field of view but with a lower resolution (unsure from the top of my head if it is due to pixel binning or not) and due to that you do have a decrease in file size.
At some point in the video there are 3 images of the bridge in the Peak District, they are to scale. But you’ll see they are identical photos, just a smaller size in both file size and resolution
@@DannyBligh ahh got it… I’ll rewatch now. Thanks for the feedback!
I am going to try the large and medium lossless vs uncompressed raw. I want to test the 26 mp of the medium which looks to me the most beneficial and thanks for this content
No problem at all!
Danny quick question do you use SD or CFexpress with the R5? I heard if you want to do continues shooting you need CFExpress for the buffer to clear quickly enough
I use SD v60's and sometimes v90's. I don't own a single CFExpress card. There's a full video about this here - th-cam.com/video/4G5z1kqfFsU/w-d-xo.html
CFExpress will clear faster than anything else but you can use continuous with any card. It just depends how much you're going to fill the buffer. Hope that helps!
Top Class and fair play for shooting some B-roll out in those cold temperatures
ha yeah, I bought some gloves just before we had the snow thankfully! Made things easier when I'm out but luckily can still use the camera... Side note; The Sony A7Rv works fine in freezing temps ;) Thanks for watching Trevor
Appreciate hearing your thoughts on compressed raw and uncompressed. I think I’ll follow you and shoot compressed raw 👍
I said it in the comments to somebody else, sure i’d shoot uncompressed every day all day, but for the time of loading, transferring, storage space and even the extra colour depth… do you actually get that much more? In my opinion, no. But there’s times when you may want to. Thanks for watching!
@@DannyBligh 💯
Thank you!!
You're welcome!
Thanks for the painstaking testing. Here's my own take:
"Lossless" = lossless = identical = no artifacts. Note that the lossless compression would be similar conceptually to how "lossless" zip files work. It is definitely not rocket science to do totally lossless compression on a raw image file, just a matter of real-time processing power. And that's where the a7r5's processing power come to bear versus its predecessors.
Note that the testing methodology requires separate images from the body (the a7r5 can only produce on raw file per image).
a. Sony is misrepresenting lossy compression as lossless (which will eventually lead to a huge scandal) or
b. The testing is picking up ever so slight variations image to image (even assuming a very stable tripod mount in the test configuration).
After carefully reviewing the artifacts that were identified, I am very comfortable going with "b" -- ie: The testing is picking up ever so slight variations image to image.
Yes, that makes sense to me. Seems like the best option is actually lossless large which gives you the same bit depth and resolution as uncompressed raw and a file size comparable to the compressed raw.
@@Bigtbone205 Hi David, I wrote the prior post, but I was incorrect. Lossless compressed is clearly downsampled (adjacent pixels are combined) from the uncompressed raw. This can easily be seen in PS. Why they call this "lossless" escapes me. The good news is that the difference can only be seen by pixel peeping or under extreme processing. So resolution is less, but DR, color depth, etc. are unchanged.
@@meta4101So you say the lossless compression is lossy? This is confusing. So why do they have two types of lossy compression, one called lossless and another just compressed?
@@meta4101How would it CLEARLY be downsampled when using L? Is it really downsampling when going with LLC Large? Also I noticed we need to differentiate the different modes more clearly when talking about them.
@@AlexChama Agreed. That was an old, almost ancient post and I now appreciate that the large compressed is not downsampled (but M and S are). Sony's materials were pretty confusing on this point ... but testing is science and science is reality.
Reality - In general, nobody is looking at your work that critically. If there is a need to used compressed raw, do it.
Exactly!! I say this all the time 😂 thanks for watching Chris
So it's late where I am, and maybe I'm tired and I missed it somewhere, but why did you choose compressed raw over lossless large? The file sizes are comparable, image quality difference is negligible or doesn't exist, and you'd get 14-bit color regardless of shooting mode. Thanks for addressing the question of raw formats! My A7RV is on the way and I've been trying to figure this out.
It’s fine 😂 it’s super early where I am… it’s something that I’d missed in the script and realised later down the line. But lossless files can take longer to render in editing software for some people, this is obviously based on the system your using to edit obviously. But lossless is almost a compressed raw file which is incompressible, so your computer/laptop will have to do a little uncompressing each time it reads the file. Where as compressed is a incompressible raw file, that data is gone.
If you’ve ever dealt with video, you could imagine it to be like h.265. Works insanely well but only when it works with your system. The lossless files work fine on my new macbook, but it’s a fully speced out m1max so you’d expect nothing less. But I know a mate of mine has the same camera and shot lossless (same reason you said) on an intel macbook and the files are slow as hell. It could be down to his system, i have no real way of testing this though. M1max vs a 7 year old macbook is a little wide shot in the dark 😂😂 when yours arrive, try it. If you are planning to allow other to have your raw files at some point to, consider that.
Long winded response, apologies. But hope it clears things up! Get some sleep 👌🏻😂
@@DannyBligh No worries, thanks for the excellent reply! Workflow speed is definitely a good consideration when deciding what file type to shoot. I think another comment here mentioned that too, I just didn't connect the dots that what was said there would also apply to lossless compressed 😅 Anyway, I actually have both an M1max macbook pro, and a 2019 i9 intel macbook pro, so I'll give the file types a shot in Lightroom on both systems and see how it goes. I can reply back to this comment thread if you'd like. Fair warning, I don't have any professional way of benchmarking anything, so my findings will be completely anecdotal.
Thanks again for a great video and a super helpful response! 👍
@@Eric-vr2qr absolutely 😂 i’d love to hear how you find the files. It’s hard to benchmark things as everybody has a different system or just quite simply, different needs and situations so I try and keep it as generic as possible to try and keep peace down here in the comments 😂 thanks for watching ✌🏻✌🏻
@@DannyBligh So for what it's worth, there's not much of a noticeable difference for me when editing compressed and lossless compressed large files - even on my 2019 intel mac. This was in Lightroom, using my normal import/develop workflow. Perhaps there would be a difference if you were importing hundreds of files at once while applying develop changes at the same time, but that's not the way I typically work. Anyway, thanks again for a great video!
Thanks!
No, thank you! Hope it helped!
Why shoot in compressed raw instead of uncompressed? Seems when you shoot in compressed, you're gonna lose out on 14 bit plus more data for your images. What are YOUR reasons for changing to compressed.?
As I say in the video, it turns out I've always shot in 12-bit without realising on my older cameras and when doing this I've never felt limited. This was a huge shock to me when reading through the Sony website in prep for this video. I (maybe I was being dumb) never realised that shooting continuous shooting mode on older cameras limited you and because I never felt limited at before, it goes to show that having a higher bit depth and knowing about it is more of a placebo (for me anyway). And shooting compressed halves your file size over uncompressed. From them two things alone in my opinion and for my needs, I only need compressed. And this is what made me do this video; I genuinely NEVER thought I'd come to that conclusion as like many people think, why would you lose out on 14 bit colour and only settle for 12? I really wanted it to be a super clean difference between all 3 raw options and for uncompressed to be a clear winner, but since I shot this video a few days before Christmas, I have shot in compressed raw every day, saved on file space and prefer the way my photos look. Sure, the compressed raw doesn't make my photos look better than uncompressed but it goes to show that if I'd have taken the same photos in that time, I'd have twice as much space taken up on my hard drives and probably wouldn't have that much better photos in terms of image quality.
Hope that answers your question! ha. Thanks for watching
Thanks for the tips! I just rented the A7CR and I’m bringing it on a test drive to a wrestling show on Friday. I saw how huge the files were uncompressed and got a little scared lol. I take a lot of photos, and I use burst a lot. So I’m guessing I’ll be ok if I shoot in compressed raw.
I’ve used compressed RAW all year long, at no point have I ever thought “this isn’t working for me”. Sure, i won’t argue there’s not a difference in quality, but how much really?! 🤷🏻♂️ not enough to make me regret my choice.
Enjoy the shoot!
Sick! I’ve been shooting wrestling shows ringside with a Sony ZV-e10, so I think this’ll be fine. I’ll save the uncompressed files for whenever I’m out on a trip or something. 🤘🏼
Why shoot in M-Raw or S-Raw? I shoot bokeh panoramas from time to time, and I combine 40-60 raw files into a panorama. This is not for extra resolution, but is for getting extra shallow DOF shooting with ultra wide FOV. My Photoshop is simply not capable of combining that many 61 MP raw images into a panorama, as they end up as several GB in size. The smaller raw files solve this problem for me.
Ah okay! I'd have never thought of that, not familiar with that myself so apologies for my ignorance to it. Thanks for the insight though! Hope you're enjoying the camera!
Also event photography, I would much rather process 4000 MRAW files
I have been investigating differences between 8bit and 10bit in video for a long time, and it's only when you do some very very extreme color grading that you can even tell the difference between thoes two. I don't think there is a single situation where 12-bit wouldn't be enough, I would even go as far as there is actually no point in even going from 10-bit to 12-bit. You would have to do some ridiculous laboratory level expansion of the color waveform to ever be able to detect artifacts in 10bit color depth.
I was more wondering whether there is some sharpness problems with compressed raw, as I am shooting birds and want the most insane sharpness I can get, especially if the birds are quite far away,.
Got the camera since day one, been shooting compressed small raw until now.
Is there a more noticeable difference in night photography or can you not tell at all
I haven’t done any night sky photography comparisons. But for compressed raw, i’ve been in dark (but not greatly underexposed) situations and never felt like there has been a limitation.
I can’t remember whether I say this in the video but if we are looking at colour/bit-depth alone, you are going to be more limited i suspect in the shadows for the lossless and compressed. But we are still getting millions of pieces of info and we’re comparing that to billions. It’s a huge difference but it’s hardly like the latter is small.
I’d always recommend trying in the situations you find yourself in, testing and comparing. There’s so many variables and it’s hard to see first hand over TH-cam but i’m pretty confident using compressed.
However, something to be aware of: since this video came out, lightroom release the AI Denoise. When I last used lossless, it’s not compatible with the AI Denoise
Does the resolution suffer if you crop in using compressed instead of uncompressed
No, not at all. Unless you are using lossless M or S
@@DannyBligh thanks for your reply
Very good video. How fast (10fps?)is continius shooting in the different ways?
Thanks Pedro! Appreciate that!
10fps in uncompressed/lossless and 7fps in compressed (I believe anyway!)
@@DannyBligh It's the other way round. 10fps is only for compressed.
@6:19 - Same, didnt know cRaw shoots 12 Bit at continuous
Great video! Thank you, it really helped me decide. I've just bought a Sony A7RIV. I don't need 61MP, but to answer your question: "why would you buy the A7R if you don't need 61MP?" Well, because it's the only option in the Sony world that gives me the new, nicer body and especially the better viewfinder without going A1. To me ergonomics and viewfinder are the most important. I'll shoot compressed 😉
Glad it’s helped! Enjoy the camera!!
I bought the A7RV for the screen and EVF - the 61MP was just an added bonus. I've found the RAW(M) setting is absolutely perfect. I get a downsampled image if shooting full sensor width OR I can pop into APS-C mode and get that same 26MP image but tighter FOV without losing any resolution. More and more people are talking about this capability. It essentially means every prime now becomes 2 lenses - 24/f1.4 can also be a 36/f2 with the simply press of a button instead of switching lenses. The camera is simply amazing!
I always set up that APS-C mode as a custom button right next to the shutter, did it back on the a7iii and it was great, even better when you have this amount of pixels to play with. I'm loving it too! Thanks for watching!
don't see any real reason to use uncompressed raw as lossless gets the same exact quality but smaller file size. Also recall some test showing post downsize is a tiny bit sharper than in-camera Medium or Small raw.
The only situation someone would want to shoot uncompressed is for faster post processing on slower computers. Whatever software used wouldn't need to uncompress data before doing work. Think the space saving out weigh the slight performance difference.
Absolutely agree with you there, the terms ‘negative returns’ comes to mind. If there was a clear difference in quality between uncompressed and compressed/lossless then sure, but they are so damn close in terms of quality. I’ve been shooting in compressed since filming this and at no point have I thought “damn, should have used uncompressed” 😂 thanks for watching
I’ve been shooting in compressed raw since buying the A7RIV and have no regrets
🙌🏻🙌🏻 glad to hear it! I’ve been doing it since this video and same, no regrets. Photos look great 😂
Agreed. But I have not seen anyone, at all, mention the fact that if you shoot M Lossless or S Lossless, Lightroom AI Denoise functions do not work. They are not compatible. They are with L Lossless and, of course, RAW Uncompressed. If you're reliant on AI Denoise, you should be aware of this (:
You’re right, tbf lightroom in general has had some major teething problems with the lossless M and S 🥴 might be worth doing an update on this video at some point if that’s still the case, this video came out a couple of months before the AI feature came out for Lightroom. Thanks for bringing it up in the comments though 🙌🏻
Is there a solution for this? Like another denoise software or nothing will work because M & S raw are demosaiced?
Why don't they give compress raw in video
Some companies do, not sure if Sony do in any of the larger cameras. I may be wrong but I believe the Canon R5 does compressed raw (which they call raw light) which is 12-bit again. I think it’s got to be an addition in the future for Sony. They do however offer 16-bit raw externally on this camera and the a7siii
@@DannyBligh do you know about the red raw case
Red says they invited the compressed raw
That's why no other company can give compressed raw in their cameras
Sorry, I've only just seen this! I had heard something about it and just read up, not going to lie, I struggle when it comes to understanding everything (joys of dyslexia eh?!) but it's such a tough situation. I get the whole patent thing but it's also very much gatekeeping. Red have every right but I'm no legal professional and don't understand it enough to comment ha!
What is the point having a 61 mp camera if you are gonna shoot at lower resolution?...
One important aspect that you missed: compressed raw allow 10 frames per second. Uncompressed and loseless compressed only 6.
Absolutely, and apologies for missing it! One of the benefits when it comes to compressed vs lossless L for sure. Thanks for watching ✌🏻
Some good points but if I work for clients or sport events which involve payments, I will stick to uncompressed RAW but outside the jobs compress RAW then.
That’s completely fair, end of the day it’s all down to personal preference 👌🏻 hope you’re enjoying the camera
@@DannyBligh and enjoying the job as well. 👍📸
So.... lossless is not losless, got it.... Thanks for labeling this so intuitively, Sony.
😂😂😂 would you expect it any other way?
@@DannyBligh Honestly? Given how customizable Sony's menu is these days with MyMenu and the breath of settings along with the hardware quality? Kinda yes...
"You ask: why would you buy a A7R5 if you are using the 26MP medium compressed raw, instead of the full 61MP when you can get a much cheaper camera for that resolution"
Fair question: let me tell you why the Medium RAW is in my opinion the best thing about the A7R5. The 61MP file size is huge, and I don't need anything that detailed as I don't print billboards. But I do like the 61MP since it allows me to shoot in APS-C mode and still get 26MP resolution! I can thus switch to APS-C without any loss in quality without ever having to deal with extremely large files that slow me down.
You are 100% correct! Since filming this and using the camera more, i agree with you!
You don’t need 61mp, i don’t that much. Been taking a bunch of photos in lossless M recently, loving it.
61mp is there for the crop factor for me more than anything now. Wildlife photos when i need more reach than what’s on my lens. Or! Been using a 35mm and only a 35mm some days but when i need a 85mm look, i just crop in post. Call me lazy 🤷🏻♂️
So i jumped the gun, call me naive🤷🏻♂️ i was wrong 😂
Two cameras in one. I love crop glass. I had an a6700, loved it, but missed the FF feel. Problem solved with the a7cr.
Instagram compressors it anyway
Ha yeah it does 😂😂 it breaks me! Here we are chatting about 4k, 8k, 10bit, blah blah blah and it end up on here streamed to an iphone via 4g or on IG. Might sell up and buy a potato
I don't understand how something can be called lossless and not be equivalent to uncompressed. By definition, lossless means without loss...to be obvious.
Yup, whilst still losing colour depth 😂🤷🏻♂️ we are probably overlooking something but i’m with you
@@DannyBligh Yep, pragmatically speaking, Lossless Large is extremely close to uncompressed if you aren't trying to recover multiple stops in the shadows, but, why spend $2500-6000 and thousands on lenses, if you aren't going to extract the maximum quality. End of rant!
Only uncompressed RAW - only hardcore.
Hey, thank you so much for discussing this topic! I just upgraded my a7iii to a a7rv to have more MP (because I shoot animals and crop A LOT). But I wasn't aware I have to use compressed raw to have 10 pics/sec and I am very worried now if this camera was the right decision. 🥲
Don’t be, i’ve used it for wildlife loads and it’s never let me down
hello grain ;(
Loss Lessssssssssssssssssssss