"Hittin' some fast flowy stuff..." passes in between two trees that look like they're 16" apart. Your fast flowy looks like my slow technical! Good riding, great review.
Great video and real world comparison. I also appreciate when you film your buddies, it’s cool to see their body positioning and how they tackle the trail. 👍✌️
Here in the uk on my 250 exc (xcw), I run 14-50 for trail riding and 13-51 for Enduro events , brings 3rd gear into play in the woods. Obviously 1st gear is then virtually redundant . Just personal preference 👍. With 13-51 riding the terrain in your video I wood more than likely never use 1st. Just adding to your excellent video.👍👍
Come to Colorado and ride the mountains here, half way between the north and south. Tough for carburetor bikes though when you can change 4K feet in elevation in a day
Solid review Greg and appreciate the details regarding the gearbox and suspension. Definitely the type of review that really demonstrates your acumen! Appreciate your comments on the capacitor, that information has been available and discussed thoroughly for a few years and many have already built a cheap capacitor to throw in the pack. BTW, love that fast flowing woods! My favorite type of riding!
Nice riding I have an xc and my neighbor has xcw. I like my bike the xc wins it for me. Riding is the best feeling ever. Nice little squad ya got there. Stay safe my brother
Awesome video with some great commentary! Thank you! I just sold my 200xc-w and am getting ready to buy my first “big boy” bike.. been pouring over every imaginable forum and TH-cam video talking about the differences... I too ride in the PNW, Western, WA actually. I do single track exclusively but prefer fast and flowy to tight and technical as I’m still a beginner in my eyes. The bikes I’m looking at: 2020 250 XC, 2020 250 XC-W, and 2020 TE250i.... I weight 175lbs and have been riding for 2, almost 3 years now, I’m 42. as of now I’m leaning towards the 250XC. My thought process is I am lucky enough to be able to afford a couple bikes and once I get into more technical riding I will buy a new 300XC-W.... My thoughts are I’ll have the right tool for the job with my two main bikes being the 250XC for faster flowy stuff and the 300XC-W for the more slower technical stuff.. am I delusional? Does that pass your sniff test? I am literally days away from pulling the trigger on the 2020 250XC.... again, thanks for the awesome content, I’m a subscriber and I watch your videos almost daily...
@Zach K Any of those bikes would be great for you and where you ride. I prefer the XC transmission but other than that I'm very happy on both. A 250xc and 300xc-w would be a great combo if you can swing it. I know a couple people who have gone that route. I don't think there is anything an xc-w can do that an xc can't and vice versa.
Zach I’m 42 and weigh 205 lbs and just bought a 2020 xc 250. I’m a beginner and haven’t ridden in years and even then I have very limited experience. The xc has been great. Power is great suspension great, I went two sizes stiffer on the rear spring and can play w the air pressure up front. Easy. I also went with guts racing lower seat foam with the oem cover which lowered the seat height about 1.3 inches which is a lot ! I’m 5’9”.
I own a 2018 xc-w and believe it or not I geared it down even more by going to a 52 tooth rear sprocket from 50. I found in single track I was having to shift between 2nd and 3rd too much and now I can just run 3rd almost all the time and it made second a deadly hill climb gear. The bike did 88 MPh top speed before so I was ok with sacrificing some top speed. Cheers
PNW Enduro haha ya first is pretty much a trials gear. It’s still nice to have it,if you get into some really gnarly terrain you don’t have to be on the clutch near as much. Or if you are in a bad spot and have to do some pushing it’s useful for that but that’s about it lol.
Wife has the 2021 250XCW and I have the 2021 300XCW and they are gnarly bikes! I used to MX and she is from Germany and crotch rockets...so new experience for both of us...great video 🤘🤘🤘
@@darceecarlile8776 she loves it...hates riding on the small, round (marbles) rocks that are everywhere in the Magic Valley, Idaho. Was an ancient lakebed and when the wind cranks it throws her around as she is about 6’ tall and 130lbs....In the mountains she gets into it. All the power she would ever need and most of all...dependability out the ass 🤘🤘🤘
XCW - for the better bike. Those forks are the best! Air forks will never get there and they barely come close. Manufacturer's love them because they are cheap to make and they sound like a new breakthrough product for buyers. Anyone that knows how to ride knows air is not good, period. Great vid, love the commentary. Go XCW TPI - best bike I've been on, ever. Everyone should have a 300 XCW TPI before they die.
I bought a set of 2020 AER48s for my 2004 299exc. I also installed A PDS shock from a 2008 250sxf because that year was the best engineering as far as shock needles, tough housing, and a few other things that I can't remember anymore.
I need to get the shock and forks revalved. Normally I would use Enduro Engineering, but they have moved away from KTM. I've heard great things about Enzo, W.E.R., and Stillwater Performance. In current state, my shock and forks are MX Spec, and would probably be great at GNCC; however, that is not what I ride. I ride hard Michigan single track where every ride had virgin single track with root chop, but also have sand whoops mixed in via transfer sections that last for miles on end. Have you ever tried AERs with Racetech Gold Valves?
I agree with your assessment, I have a 2018 XCW, 1st is useless except for the gnarliest stuff and sometimes I find a spot between 2nd and 3rd where I am to high in the RPMs in 2nd and to low in 3rd. My skill level is slightly above beginner.
I had an 09 300 xcw moved to a 14 xc, and it felt more like I remembered riding as a kid, maybe the rake on the xc. It just felt more stable for me. I rode an 18 xcw before buying my tx 300 and I think I still noticed that i liked the slower steering...we are more hare scramble like in tx.
I've been saying this for a long time. First and second are just more useable on the XC. People hear "close ratio" and think the XC has the sx trans. 3-6 are the same on both bikes, only 1st and 2nd are taller on the XC. First gear is still much lower than the SX, but not too low like the W in my opinion. You can always add a tooth or 2 to the rear sprocket if you want a lower first, and you still don't have the 2nd to 3rd gear gap... Lots of people dismiss the XC or have the idea that it's not an "enduro" bike. My 2019 300 xc is the best enduro bike I have ever owned or ridden!
@@The1jball Actually lots of guys buy the xcw for the trans. They just assume it is better for enduro riding. I've actually seen guys online who have bought the XC for the linkage and swap out 1st and 2nd with the xc-w gears. I don't know why they wouldn't just get the TE in that case, but to each their own.
@@The1jball I haven't ridden the XC, but when I am uphill and technical (or screw up some technical), I am super happy to drop into the XC-W's granny first. I don't think I could trade that away.
Great review. My 300 is the XC (I put a light on it). My 250 is an SX. I find first gear on my SX is unusable - it is too low. I often start in second and slip the clutch. I really like first gear in the XC. I don't think I have ridden an XC-W but I think first gear would bug me.
As someone with an xc-w who rides a lot of technical terrain all year, first gear is nice when you need it. With tpi just pick a gear you like/want to be in and chug along. You dont need to be on the pipe all of the time with these bikes.
Great review . I have a TX 300 I definitely prefer the air forks and evenly spaced gears . Once and a while I’ll wish my first is lower but like you said you can change the gearing but not the transmission. Also you I didn’t know I could bump start my bike if the battery is dead. Great info. That’s some really tight single track BTW 😅. I like that flowy stuff though
Be cool to note the location in the description.... Im all over the country and always looking for new cool places.. this looks awesome. I picked the xc and love it... more variable controlled suspension, I can change it to whatever easily.
For sure. I think 1st gear on the xc-w's is nice when you need that low grunt gear. Slow, technical stuff sometimes demands it especially when you're a normal person and not Jarvis.
Nice review with good info. Just purchased a 2019 450 xc f coming from a 2002 300 exc. Was i little concerned about the tighter gearing and felt like 1rst was too high on my first yard test but once i got in the trails it was great. Just initial impressions but I seem to be not hunting gears for the power i need in first and second and actually not using the clutch as much as i used to. Going to add a flywheel weight and go from there.
The weight diferanc is negligible especially after you convert an XC Air Fork to spring so it works correctly at that point it's going to be heavier than a w because of the linkage. As for gappy transmission I reun 13 53 on a w and it work's great second gear and up for easy stuff and first is great for the hard technical trials stuff.
If you set up the air fork properly, you dont need to "convert it". I have both air and spring kit air forks and i prefer the air. They work great and the spring converts are so so. Also it cost a bunch to wind up with average spring forks. The air fork is also way better when the speeds increase.
I’ve got an 18 300XC-W and it’s my first 2T. Basically a beginner rider and I absolutely love it! I hear people talking about the sprocket sizes. It’s got a 12/50 on there right now, I’m replacing it with the stock gearing 13/50 since the rear is close to worn out. Does the gearing really make that noticeable of a difference for a newer rider?
Very informative and honest review ! It confirmed my decision to go for an Enduro style bike with PDS shock. I'm about to trade in my 1190 Adventure R for an Enduro style bike and will mostly be doing stuff like you do in this video. What would your engine advise be ? ( in Europe naming convention is different ) XC is SX over here and XC-W is EXC. I'm used to a lot of engine braking ( riding the 1190r and my SuperDuke ), so I' m going for 4 stroke I guess. But what engine can you advise for this kind of trails ? ( right now I have my mind set on the happy medium , the EXC-F four stroke 350 Six days...
a 350 would do just fine. Most of us are on two strokes here, they just wear you out less in this kind of terrain. Also consider the 250 four stroke, it would also do well on tight trails and have less rotating mass. Although anything you get will feel like a mountain bike compared to the 1190r!
@@xXxIcedaddyxXx That anodized tripple clamp is a nice touch, and the difference here is 600€ between a 6days and non-6days, so all in all, that's not my biggest concern. But a valid point indeed. If the 6days version would also include a alu or carbon bash plate or brake protection, that would be a no-brainer and make more sense. But I know KTM by now, the parts you really want are never on the stock bikes... My 1190Adventure R was a nice example of that as well.
You mentioned the two bikes have different steering head angles, but didn’t mention what those angles are. Do you know which bike has what angle? Which bike would have the steeper rake? And thank you so much for your content...and I speak for myself and all my riding buddies when say thanks a lot for the effort you take to make these videos.
Thanks, glad you enjoy the videos. I don't remember the exact angels but specs are on KTM's website. Also the are forks are longer than the Explor, probably due to the different angles.
Hey man just discovered your videos and I really love em! I'm currently on an xcw riding in SoCal and I can not get my suspension to feel good out here, and have really been thinking about switching to an XC or XC-F. Im also moving to Oregon here soon as well, and the riding from what I see looks like it fits the xcw better, but I still want to be able to hit higher speed stuff as well. Do you feel the xc is a better more all around bike? Would Appreciate your thoughts, thanks!
I do feel the XC is slightly better all around but it's close. I'd recommend you give your xc-w a go in Oregon first and see how you like it. Maybe have the suspension done if you haven't yet.
Hi Love yiur videos. Quick question. I am new to dirt biking but love it now. Need a new bike. Bought a beginners bike. I am 58. Do single track in the north east. Don’t need too much power. Since I don’t go fast. And want a lighter bike. Looking at the totally redesigned 2023 KTM 125 XC and the 2023 KTM 150 XC-W. Do you have any suggestions? Thanks so much!
Normally I'd say the 150xc-w is a better choice for you as it's much easier to ride where the 125 needed to be ridden very aggressively. With the new 125 being TBI now It may be a lot closer in comparison now though.
Nice comparo. I have an 18 250 XC-W and had an 11 300 XC. I personally prefer the XC but can go either way. I actually like the low 1st on the W but wish 2-5 were all closer to 1st.
Have you looked at doing a comparison between 2020 300 TPI XC-W and the 2020 KTM 350 XCF-W Im looking at buying a new bike this year, more likely a 2021 model.. 2T or 4T
Maybe if I get a chance. Don't have access to a 2020 350 at this time. It depends a lot on where and how you ride as far as 2T or 4T goes. 80-90% of the people I ride with are on 2 strokes, however I wouldn't mind owning both myself.
@@PNWEnduro Yea, 2T seems to be the flavour nowadays.. I have only read good about the 350.. i ride a variety of areas, even like doing some track days, can only afford one bike tho..
Hi, really like your reviews. Someone posted somewhere that linkage with extended guard actually transitions better over logs as the PDS has a gap where a log can get hung up. Can you verify this comment? Thanks!
Makes me wonder why ktm is still using the PDS suspension still. where Husky has the linkage on both TE and TX. Love the idea of not having the low hanging linkage tho... Im not a fan of the PDS. but to be fair the only bike i have ridden with the PDS was older ktm. im sure there has been making updates since then. I have a 19 300 xc. the gearing feels almost perfect for a bike that will be on open trails to get to the single tracks. then still be geared nicely for tech single tracks. A question about your 2020 xc. How are your plastics holding up? My bike has 10 hrs on the clock and the plastics already look like mt 14 ktm with 100 hours on it did. major regret not putting a graphic kit on the freshie lol.
I have a 19' 250 xc-w and it's my first bike ever with PDS, I don't see myself going back to linkage. Its plush, stable and soaks up all the big hits without sending you all over the place.
I'm a big honda guy but have been getting into more enduro racing and endurance races and need a bike better suited for it I'm currently riding a crf450 r but the close ratio gear box is killing in the low end and topend so is the simi close ratio on the money or is it still on the to close side also hows the power feel compared to a 450
Great review just bought a cc 300 are you running stock tires or are you running a different tire and at what psi are you running the tires at happy trails
You mentioned the steering head angles are different between the two... I know the xc is more raked out and the w is more vertical... but do you happen to know the exact difference?
@@PNWEnduro The injections seems awesome, just do not trust it!! plus, it seems to have a slow rpm down low. I kind of like the snappy 250xc TBI over the 300xc
Have you changed either of the sprockets on your xc and up to what weight do you think the 250s are good bikes im 195lbs and 6ft ive been looking at the beta 390rr re and the 300rr re and the ktm 300xcw or the ktm 350 xcw
I run 13 53 on my w and it does pretty well in the really tight steep stuff . My only complaint is that 6th is way to low when getting to the next section on the road.
Sacrificing speed on the road is probably still a good tradeoff for getting the gearing you want in the trails. We don't have very long road sections between trails at most of our areas.
Great comparison and answers a lot of my questions. I have a couple more...how is power delivery between the two? I've heard the W has a softer delivery. And, I've heard that the W also feels a bit heavier and not as nimble. Thoughts? Thanks!
Excellent rider video and comments... I'm a former 300rr racer rider and going either tpi ktm or husky for 2021. Is there actual stand over height difference between 250 linkage vs PDS as specs say same but PDS typically known for tad higher (im 31 inseam)? what about weight difference between the two as on paper XC w/ air fork lighter and anything to report here? Why does KTM charge same price between XC and XC-W (with more gadgets)?
The XC-W with PDS sits higher but it will depend on how you have your sag set as well. Yes the air forks are lighter but you add weight with the linkage, also xc-w has trip computer, lights and wiring that add weight. For price I think because the xc has linkage (more parts) it evens out the cost. Plus probably just easier for KTM/dealers to have them the same price.
We are on 250's. I've ridden 250/300's back to back several times. I really believe there is nothing you can do on a 300 that you can't also do on a 250 so it comes down to preference and riding style as to which one is better for you.
Great video, like the detail you went into, Q - i believe the XC has a 20mm offset triple clamp and the XCW has 22mm, do you think that is why the XC is more nimble?
Clamps are just a few ounces apart. The XC is a little lighter bc the W has spring forks, electrical hardware & a beefier frame. It was designed for hard enduro/woods terrain. If you want something that is easy to ride rough terrain in, then the XC-W is the bomb. Its suspension is like riding a mattress. Less exhausting. They XC likes fast and flowing stuff. Suspension is stiffer for higher speeds. Its more geared towards racing. With that being said, its subtle differences.
I'm in the PNW, so these trails would be accessible to me based on current location. Certainly look familiar as there are other single tracks around Seattle that resemble these trails. But.. I notice you have not answered anyone directly "where are these trails?" I get it. keep the traffic low. :) feel free to PM me tho, with location if you want. Eventually, i'll find this tho. SO PNW :) Walker? Evans? Cap Forest? :). thanks for the review. I ride the 2021 300 XC-w and LOVE it. as a beginner rider getting back into it, I don't mind the gearing of 1st and 2nd. I find myself in 2nd most of the time on trails like this, with 1st when I get a sharp corner and/or technical climb or rocky/rooty section. Subb'd. Would like to ride with you sometime.
PDS shocks tend to make the bike sit higher, being a shorter rider I don't like this. I feel the linkage bikes track better in the chop and woops and don't buck you as much.
@Nick Fiorante I have not been on the 2020 300xcw yet, just the 150 and 250. The KTM's are smother and have better suspension. The motor on the Beta 300rr is really good though, perfect power delivery for single track.
Greg, what do you think about purchasing a 2021 300 XC and adding a lighting kit to it? Seems like that would be the best of both worlds. For tight woods riding which fork did you like the best, the XC-W or the XC? Awesome review by the way!
You can't go wrong either way. I really like the Explor forks. That being said the 2021's have seen significant upgrades to the AER air forks. If you are into night riding you would probably put aftermarket lights on either model anyway.
Dude, Im 6-4 240 and have a 2018 250 xcw, I tried to live with it but I had to buy a 300 kit. It is fine in the woods, but I notice the lack of oomph on really long uphills, and when trying to get the front up over sneaky logs. The 250s rip, just doesnt quite fit my style, Western Wa terrain
If you had to pick one, which would it be? Also if you were gonna put a plate on it for occasional dual sporting from trail head to trail head? Which would you pick?
"Hittin' some fast flowy stuff..." passes in between two trees that look like they're 16" apart. Your fast flowy looks like my slow technical! Good riding, great review.
You guys ride some of the gnarliest and most technical stuff and are always killing it, man! Great videos!
Great video and real world comparison. I also appreciate when you film your buddies, it’s cool to see their body positioning and how they tackle the trail. 👍✌️
Dirt Zen agreed. I very much prefer dirt bike GoPro videos with a rider in front of the filmmaker. More interesting and more educational.
Here in the uk on my 250 exc (xcw), I run 14-50 for trail riding and 13-51 for Enduro events , brings 3rd gear into play in the woods. Obviously 1st gear is then virtually redundant . Just personal preference 👍. With 13-51 riding the terrain in your video I wood more than likely never use 1st. Just adding to your excellent video.👍👍
That is absolutely amazing riding terrain. I am so unbelievably envious of that riding. I should have moved north not south...
Come to Colorado and ride the mountains here, half way between the north and south. Tough for carburetor bikes though when you can change 4K feet in elevation in a day
Solid review Greg and appreciate the details regarding the gearbox and suspension. Definitely the type of review that really demonstrates your acumen! Appreciate your comments on the capacitor, that information has been available and discussed thoroughly for a few years and many have already built a cheap capacitor to throw in the pack.
BTW, love that fast flowing woods! My favorite type of riding!
Nice riding I have an xc and my neighbor has xcw. I like my bike the xc wins it for me. Riding is the best feeling ever. Nice little squad ya got there. Stay safe my brother
Awesome video with some great commentary! Thank you! I just sold my 200xc-w and am getting ready to buy my first “big boy” bike.. been pouring over every imaginable forum and TH-cam video talking about the differences... I too ride in the PNW, Western, WA actually. I do single track exclusively but prefer fast and flowy to tight and technical as I’m still a beginner in my eyes. The bikes I’m looking at: 2020 250 XC, 2020 250 XC-W, and 2020 TE250i.... I weight 175lbs and have been riding for 2, almost 3 years now, I’m 42. as of now I’m leaning towards the 250XC. My thought process is I am lucky enough to be able to afford a couple bikes and once I get into more technical riding I will buy a new 300XC-W.... My thoughts are I’ll have the right tool for the job with my two main bikes being the 250XC for faster flowy stuff and the 300XC-W for the more slower technical stuff.. am I delusional? Does that pass your sniff test? I am literally days away from pulling the trigger on the 2020 250XC.... again, thanks for the awesome content, I’m a subscriber and I watch your videos almost daily...
I think you will be more at home with the 250 xcw. Suspension will feel the same or close to your 200
Mihai Dobrescu I should also say I rode my buddies 17’ XC and loved it. Mostly for the increased grunt/snappiness of the engine over my 07 200xc-w
@Zach K Any of those bikes would be great for you and where you ride. I prefer the XC transmission but other than that I'm very happy on both. A 250xc and 300xc-w would be a great combo if you can swing it. I know a couple people who have gone that route. I don't think there is anything an xc-w can do that an xc can't and vice versa.
Zach I’m 42 and weigh 205 lbs and just bought a 2020 xc 250. I’m a beginner and haven’t ridden in years and even then I have very limited experience. The xc has been great. Power is great suspension great, I went two sizes stiffer on the rear spring and can play w the air pressure up front. Easy. I also went with guts racing lower seat foam with the oem cover which lowered the seat height about 1.3 inches which is a lot ! I’m 5’9”.
Nice review, if I buy new I’m definitely going with another xcw250 or 300
I own a 2018 xc-w and believe it or not I geared it down even more by going to a 52 tooth rear sprocket from 50. I found in single track I was having to shift between 2nd and 3rd too much and now I can just run 3rd almost all the time and it made second a deadly hill climb gear. The bike did 88 MPh top speed before so I was ok with sacrificing some top speed. Cheers
I assume you don't use 1st much at all now?
PNW Enduro haha ya first is pretty much a trials gear. It’s still nice to have it,if you get into some really gnarly terrain you don’t have to be on the clutch near as much. Or if you are in a bad spot and have to do some pushing it’s useful for that but that’s about it lol.
Wife has the 2021 250XCW and I have the 2021 300XCW and they are gnarly bikes! I used to MX and she is from Germany and crotch rockets...so new experience for both of us...great video 🤘🤘🤘
How does she like her bike? I am looking at a 250 xc w.
@@darceecarlile8776 she loves it...hates riding on the small, round (marbles) rocks that are everywhere in the Magic Valley, Idaho. Was an ancient lakebed and when the wind cranks it throws her around as she is about 6’ tall and 130lbs....In the mountains she gets into it. All the power she would ever need and most of all...dependability out the ass 🤘🤘🤘
1st gear is only noticeable difference
2018 xcw ratios: 1st 14:32 2nd 16:26 3rd 20:25
4th 22:23 5th 25:22 6th 26:20
2018 xc ratios: 1st 15:31 2nd 16:25 3rd 20:25
4th 22:23 5th 25:22 6th 26:20
I am pretty sure the 2020 ratios are unchanged.
XCW - for the better bike. Those forks are the best! Air forks will never get there and they barely come close. Manufacturer's love them because they are cheap to make and they sound like a new breakthrough product for buyers. Anyone that knows how to ride knows air is not good, period. Great vid, love the commentary. Go XCW TPI - best bike I've been on, ever. Everyone should have a 300 XCW TPI before they die.
I agree 300 XCW best bike for woods and trail ever made
Nice vid bud! exactly what I wanted to know!
I bought a set of 2020 AER48s for my 2004 299exc. I also installed A PDS shock from a 2008 250sxf because that year was the best engineering as far as shock needles, tough housing, and a few other things that I can't remember anymore.
I need to get the shock and forks revalved. Normally I would use Enduro Engineering, but they have moved away from KTM. I've heard great things about Enzo, W.E.R., and Stillwater Performance. In current state, my shock and forks are MX Spec, and would probably be great at GNCC; however, that is not what I ride. I ride hard Michigan single track where every ride had virgin single track with root chop, but also have sand whoops mixed in via transfer sections that last for miles on end.
Have you ever tried AERs with Racetech Gold Valves?
“I like to do this part of the trail with no dabs” 🤘🏻🤙
i heard that too
He doesn’t even use the rev range he just idles
Dabs mean something completely different in Southern Oregon.
I agree with your assessment, I have a 2018 XCW, 1st is useless except for the gnarliest stuff and sometimes I find a spot between 2nd and 3rd where I am to high in the RPMs in 2nd and to low in 3rd. My skill level is slightly above beginner.
Arthur Kineard throw a 52 tooth rear sprocket on. 👍
@@MrJasonfromcanada I'll look into it.
I had an 09 300 xcw moved to a 14 xc, and it felt more like I remembered riding as a kid, maybe the rake on the xc. It just felt more stable for me. I rode an 18 xcw before buying my tx 300 and I think I still noticed that i liked the slower steering...we are more hare scramble like in tx.
More of XC owner on XCW.
It would be nice, 2 loops with fast and slow sections, swap bikes.
Good vid & review. The Trails Guys Are Awsome my kind of woods riding a lil technical & flow. Wick On ✊
Well Done, would love to try those PnW trails!
I've been saying this for a long time. First and second are just more useable on the XC. People hear "close ratio" and think the XC has the sx trans. 3-6 are the same on both bikes, only 1st and 2nd are taller on the XC. First gear is still much lower than the SX, but not too low like the W in my opinion. You can always add a tooth or 2 to the rear sprocket if you want a lower first, and you still don't have the 2nd to 3rd gear gap... Lots of people dismiss the XC or have the idea that it's not an "enduro" bike. My 2019 300 xc is the best enduro bike I have ever owned or ridden!
Completely agree with you there.
I don’t know anyone that prefers the xc-w trans.. Many prefer the suspension tho..
@@The1jball Actually lots of guys buy the xcw for the trans. They just assume it is better for enduro riding. I've actually seen guys online who have bought the XC for the linkage and swap out 1st and 2nd with the xc-w gears. I don't know why they wouldn't just get the TE in that case, but to each their own.
@@The1jball I haven't ridden the XC, but when I am uphill and technical (or screw up some technical), I am super happy to drop into the XC-W's granny first. I don't think I could trade that away.
Great review. My 300 is the XC (I put a light on it). My 250 is an SX. I find first gear on my SX is unusable - it is too low. I often start in second and slip the clutch. I really like first gear in the XC. I don't think I have ridden an XC-W but I think first gear would bug me.
Yes, 1st on the XC's are much more usable I find.
As someone with an xc-w who rides a lot of technical terrain all year, first gear is nice when you need it. With tpi just pick a gear you like/want to be in and chug along. You dont need to be on the pipe all of the time with these bikes.
Great review . I have a TX 300 I definitely prefer the air forks and evenly spaced gears . Once and a while I’ll wish my first is lower but like you said you can change the gearing but not the transmission. Also you I didn’t know I could bump start my bike if the battery is dead. Great info. That’s some really tight single track BTW 😅. I like that flowy stuff though
Great review! You guys are spoiled with that riding out there!
Yes we are.
Thnx for the good info on the suspension differences, very interesting.
Thanks , exactly the comparison I need ✔️✔️
Forgot about the comparison and just salivated over those trails.
Be cool to note the location in the description.... Im all over the country and always looking for new cool places.. this looks awesome. I picked the xc and love it... more variable controlled suspension, I can change it to whatever easily.
I'm from Austria and i have a 2020 250 exc (xc-w) i think first gear is very usable for hard enduro, like starting in loose hillclimbs
For sure. I think 1st gear on the xc-w's is nice when you need that low grunt gear. Slow, technical stuff sometimes demands it especially when you're a normal person and not Jarvis.
300xc/tx300 for the desert or open fast riding and te300 for the tight and technical for a 240 lb rider such as myself. They can keep the pds...
PDS for the win. XCW best for woods.
Awesome video guys ! Which of the two do you think would win in a straight line race from a dead stop? Thank you
At 14:04, perfect commercial for KTM. LOL
Sickest review ever!
Nice review with good info. Just purchased a 2019 450 xc f coming from a 2002 300 exc. Was i little concerned about the tighter gearing and felt like 1rst was too high on my first yard test but once i got in the trails it was great. Just initial impressions but I seem to be not hunting gears for the power i need in first and second and actually not using the clutch as much as i used to. Going to add a flywheel weight and go from there.
Excellent video. Was that 2nd gear for the hill climb you started at 9:18?
Yes, 2nd up that hill.
The weight diferanc is negligible especially after you convert an XC Air Fork to spring so it works correctly at that point it's going to be heavier than a w because of the linkage. As for gappy transmission I reun 13 53 on a w and it work's great second gear and up for easy stuff and first is great for the hard technical trials stuff.
If you set up the air fork properly, you dont need to "convert it". I have both air and spring kit air forks and i prefer the air. They work great and the spring converts are so so. Also it cost a bunch to wind up with average spring forks. The air fork is also way better when the speeds increase.
I’ve got an 18 300XC-W and it’s my first 2T. Basically a beginner rider and I absolutely love it! I hear people talking about the sprocket sizes. It’s got a 12/50 on there right now, I’m replacing it with the stock gearing 13/50 since the rear is close to worn out. Does the gearing really make that noticeable of a difference for a newer rider?
Yes, I think you will notice the difference. Changing the front sprocket one tooth makes a bigger difference than changing one on the rear.
Nice job. So many people on that trail. Where was this filmed? Thanks
Thanks for the video, still not sure which bike to get though.
Very informative and honest review ! It confirmed my decision to go for an Enduro style bike with PDS shock. I'm about to trade in my 1190 Adventure R for an Enduro style bike and will mostly be doing stuff like you do in this video. What would your engine advise be ? ( in Europe naming convention is different ) XC is SX over here and XC-W is EXC. I'm used to a lot of engine braking ( riding the 1190r and my SuperDuke ), so I' m going for 4 stroke I guess. But what engine can you advise for this kind of trails ? ( right now I have my mind set on the happy medium , the EXC-F four stroke 350 Six days...
a 350 would do just fine. Most of us are on two strokes here, they just wear you out less in this kind of terrain. Also consider the 250 four stroke, it would also do well on tight trails and have less rotating mass. Although anything you get will feel like a mountain bike compared to the 1190r!
I wouldnt waste your money on a six days bike, but the 350 would be an excellent choice, its a really great sweet spot for the 4t on the trails.
@@xXxIcedaddyxXx That anodized tripple clamp is a nice touch, and the difference here is 600€ between a 6days and non-6days, so all in all, that's not my biggest concern. But a valid point indeed. If the 6days version would also include a alu or carbon bash plate or brake protection, that would be a no-brainer and make more sense. But I know KTM by now, the parts you really want are never on the stock bikes... My 1190Adventure R was a nice example of that as well.
You mentioned the two bikes have different steering head angles, but didn’t mention what those angles are. Do you know which bike has what angle? Which bike would have the steeper rake? And thank you so much for your content...and I speak for myself and all my riding buddies when say thanks a lot for the effort you take to make these videos.
Thanks, glad you enjoy the videos. I don't remember the exact angels but specs are on KTM's website. Also the are forks are longer than the Explor, probably due to the different angles.
@@PNWEnduro thank you.
Do you have the link to the Dirt Bike Channel video available you can post please that you made mention of "bump starting an XC, but not an XCW"?
Really well done, informative and interesting video thank you 🙏🇬🇧. Stay safe 👍👍
Have u messed with the power valve yet??
Where are these trails that area looks amazing
Either Washington state or southern British Columbia.
Hey man just discovered your videos and I really love em! I'm currently on an xcw riding in SoCal and I can not get my suspension to feel good out here, and have really been thinking about switching to an XC or XC-F. Im also moving to Oregon here soon as well, and the riding from what I see looks like it fits the xcw better, but I still want to be able to hit higher speed stuff as well. Do you feel the xc is a better more all around bike? Would Appreciate your thoughts, thanks!
I do feel the XC is slightly better all around but it's close. I'd recommend you give your xc-w a go in Oregon first and see how you like it. Maybe have the suspension done if you haven't yet.
@@PNWEnduro Awesome thanks for the reply. Ill ride first, and than maybe consider suspension work after!
Hi
Love yiur videos. Quick question. I am new to dirt biking but love it now. Need a new bike. Bought a beginners bike. I am 58. Do single track in the north east.
Don’t need too much power. Since I don’t go fast. And want a lighter bike. Looking at the totally redesigned 2023 KTM 125 XC and the 2023 KTM 150 XC-W.
Do you have any suggestions? Thanks so much!
Normally I'd say the 150xc-w is a better choice for you as it's much easier to ride where the 125 needed to be ridden very aggressively. With the new 125 being TBI now It may be a lot closer in comparison now though.
Nice comparo. I have an 18 250 XC-W and had an 11 300 XC. I personally prefer the XC but can go either way. I actually like the low 1st on the W but wish 2-5 were all closer to 1st.
Why do you prefer the XC?
Have you looked at doing a comparison between 2020 300 TPI XC-W and the 2020 KTM 350 XCF-W Im looking at buying a new bike this year, more likely a 2021 model.. 2T or 4T
Maybe if I get a chance. Don't have access to a 2020 350 at this time. It depends a lot on where and how you ride as far as 2T or 4T goes. 80-90% of the people I ride with are on 2 strokes, however I wouldn't mind owning both myself.
@@PNWEnduro Yea, 2T seems to be the flavour nowadays.. I have only read good about the 350.. i ride a variety of areas, even like doing some track days, can only afford one bike tho..
Hi, really like your reviews. Someone posted somewhere that linkage with extended guard actually transitions better over logs as the PDS has a gap where a log can get hung up. Can you verify this comment? Thanks!
Yes I agree that it can, most of the new style plastic skid plates have the linkage protection now and it helps keep you from getting hung up on logs.
not true! pds is much better at this.
Went from a xc-w to the xc and couldn't be happier
Hows the xc been in tight gnarly sections?
@@scottlatham408 It's been great! Smooth as butter and more umph. Maybe due to the hotter ignition mapping?
Makes me wonder why ktm is still using the PDS suspension still. where Husky has the linkage on both TE and TX. Love the idea of not having the low hanging linkage tho... Im not a fan of the PDS. but to be fair the only bike i have ridden with the PDS was older ktm. im sure there has been making updates since then. I have a 19 300 xc. the gearing feels almost perfect for a bike that will be on open trails to get to the single tracks. then still be geared nicely for tech single tracks.
A question about your 2020 xc. How are your plastics holding up? My bike has 10 hrs on the clock and the plastics already look like mt 14 ktm with 100 hours on it did. major regret not putting a graphic kit on the freshie lol.
My plastics look okay, just the usual scratches.
I have a 19' 250 xc-w and it's my first bike ever with PDS, I don't see myself going back to linkage. Its plush, stable and soaks up all the big hits without sending you all over the place.
I'm a big honda guy but have been getting into more enduro racing and endurance races and need a bike better suited for it I'm currently riding a crf450 r but the close ratio gear box is killing in the low end and topend so is the simi close ratio on the money or is it still on the to close side also hows the power feel compared to a 450
Great review just bought a cc 300 are you running stock tires or are you running a different tire and at what psi are you running the tires at happy trails
I only run gummy tires on the rear wheel, using an IRC ve33s with soft Nitromousse. On the front I use a standard mousse.
You mentioned the steering head angles are different between the two... I know the xc is more raked out and the w is more vertical... but do you happen to know the exact difference?
Exact specs are KTM website.
I think it.s the same.
XC-W 63.5 degrees, XC 63.9 degrees. So the XC-W is actually slightly more slack.
Which do you prefer, the TPI or TBI? What Pre Mix do you run?
TBI, without question. A few years from now we will all be talking about what a huge mistake TPI was.
@@PNWEnduro The injections seems awesome, just do not trust it!! plus, it seems to have a slow rpm down low. I kind of like the snappy 250xc TBI over the 300xc
Those are really nice trails. Wow.
Have you changed either of the sprockets on your xc and up to what weight do you think the 250s are good bikes im 195lbs and 6ft ive been looking at the beta 390rr re and the 300rr re and the ktm 300xcw or the ktm 350 xcw
I run stock gearing. I know of guys up to 250 lbs riding the KTM/Husky 250's, at 195 you will be fine on a 250.
@@PNWEnduro I appreciate the reply
I run 13 53 on my w and it does pretty well in the really tight steep stuff . My only complaint is that 6th is way to low when getting to the next section on the road.
Sacrificing speed on the road is probably still a good tradeoff for getting the gearing you want in the trails. We don't have very long road sections between trails at most of our areas.
Great comparison and answers a lot of my questions. I have a couple more...how is power delivery between the two? I've heard the W has a softer delivery. And, I've heard that the W also feels a bit heavier and not as nimble. Thoughts? Thanks!
Power delivery is about the same except for the gearing difference, I did not feel the xcw felt any heavier on the trail.
Excellent rider video and comments... I'm a former 300rr racer rider and going either tpi ktm or husky for 2021. Is there actual stand over height difference between 250 linkage vs PDS as specs say same but PDS typically known for tad higher (im 31 inseam)? what about weight difference between the two as on paper XC w/ air fork lighter and anything to report here? Why does KTM charge same price between XC and XC-W (with more gadgets)?
The XC-W with PDS sits higher but it will depend on how you have your sag set as well. Yes the air forks are lighter but you add weight with the linkage, also xc-w has trip computer, lights and wiring that add weight. For price I think because the xc has linkage (more parts) it evens out the cost. Plus probably just easier for KTM/dealers to have them the same price.
Great video!
Are those 250 or 300 you testing.. And what your opinions on the 2020 250 vs 300...have you managed to test them back to back
We are on 250's. I've ridden 250/300's back to back several times. I really believe there is nothing you can do on a 300 that you can't also do on a 250 so it comes down to preference and riding style as to which one is better for you.
Where is this in the PNW?
Great Trails thanks!
Great video, like the detail you went into, Q - i believe the XC has a 20mm offset triple clamp and the XCW has 22mm, do you think that is why the XC is more nimble?
Clamps are just a few ounces apart. The XC is a little lighter bc the W has spring forks, electrical hardware & a beefier frame. It was designed for hard enduro/woods terrain. If you want something that is easy to ride rough terrain in, then the XC-W is the bomb. Its suspension is like riding a mattress. Less exhausting. They XC likes fast and flowing stuff. Suspension is stiffer for higher speeds. Its more geared towards racing. With that being said, its subtle differences.
300 XC-W for the win, go get one!
Daaa’aaaang boys, that’s a RIDE!
Hey PNW or comment contributors... i can only afford 1 bike, so which of these would be better on track? Thanks in advance.
The XC will be better on the track. Higher 1st gear and the air forks are easily adjustable.
I’m from Vancouver WA, where at are you guys riding?
2020 KTM returned back to my 98 model.
I'm in the PNW, so these trails would be accessible to me based on current location. Certainly look familiar as there are other single tracks around Seattle that resemble these trails. But.. I notice you have not answered anyone directly "where are these trails?"
I get it. keep the traffic low. :)
feel free to PM me tho, with location if you want. Eventually, i'll find this tho. SO PNW :)
Walker?
Evans?
Cap Forest? :). thanks for the review. I ride the 2021 300 XC-w and LOVE it. as a beginner rider getting back into it, I don't mind the gearing of 1st and 2nd. I find myself in 2nd most of the time on trails like this, with 1st when I get a sharp corner and/or technical climb or rocky/rooty section. Subb'd.
Would like to ride with you sometime.
So what's the "EXC" 2stroke model then? Have they just changed it to XC now?
XC-W is more similar to the EXC. XC is exclusive to north America and is a semi-close ratio transmission where the XC-W/EXC have a wide ratio.
@@PNWEnduro Okay thanks. I'm in Australia and mainly see EXC and EXE out here.
What trail is that? Looks super fun
Do you prefer pds or the linkage suspension?
Linkage.
@@PNWEnduro can you explain why you like linkage better?
PDS shocks tend to make the bike sit higher, being a shorter rider I don't like this. I feel the linkage bikes track better in the chop and woops and don't buck you as much.
Great ride are those the factory tires
Where are you riding? This terrain looks so fun!
Yeah I need to know as well
Yes need to know...
I would also like to know where this is. Shame there hasnt been an answer yet....
I thought 1st an2nd on the W were lower geared than xcf? The rest the same?
Such amazing trails !!
Hey Greg, how would compare the 2020 Beta 300 RR to the 2020 Ktm 300xcw ?
@Nick Fiorante I have not been on the 2020 300xcw yet, just the 150 and 250. The KTM's are smother and have better suspension. The motor on the Beta 300rr is really good though, perfect power delivery for single track.
Do both bikes have the same batteries?
They do.
What tires do you use? Enjoy the videos keep it up!
Currently an IRC VE33S on the back and Bridgestone X30 on the front.
Wow, nice skills on the tight stuff 👍
Which suspension did you like best?
XC-W, mostly because of the forks.
@@PNWEnduro so u like the XCW better overall?
Where is this trail?
Where is this? Canada or north Idaho?
Is that Walker Valley?
Greg, what do you think about purchasing a 2021 300 XC and adding a lighting kit to it? Seems like that would be the best of both worlds. For tight woods riding which fork did you like the best, the XC-W or the XC? Awesome review by the way!
You can't go wrong either way. I really like the Explor forks. That being said the 2021's have seen significant upgrades to the AER air forks. If you are into night riding you would probably put aftermarket lights on either model anyway.
a sea of orange...lol I'd love a 2020 xc-w 300
I've ridden both and prefer the 250XC-W. The 300 torque wears you out.
Think the XC-W 250 would be good enough for a 240lb rider?
You would need new springs for the suspension but other than that it would do okay.
Dude, Im 6-4 240 and have a 2018 250 xcw, I tried to live with it but I had to buy a 300 kit. It is fine in the woods, but I notice the lack of oomph on really long uphills, and when trying to get the front up over sneaky logs. The 250s rip, just doesnt quite fit my style, Western Wa terrain
Where are those trails at?
Where are you guys riding!
When u say older pds shocks were inferior how far back are we talking?
My 2012 200xc-w.
@@PNWEnduro ya I get it that set up is a bit dated..I was just wondering cause I am thinking about getting a '17 or '18. Model
What state & trail system is that ?
where is it you are riding ? nice trails !!!
Where are you riding?
Passed right by those Husqvarna boys!
Where is this riding at?
If you had to pick one, which would it be? Also if you were gonna put a plate on it for occasional dual sporting from trail head to trail head? Which would you pick?
Trail only, I could go either way. If I were to plate it, XC-W.