Something Mr. Allison said has really resonated with me. I have been researching and reading a lot about Near Death Experience, Contemplation, Physics and Carl Jung’s theories on Synchronicity (that there are no coincidences). Let me say that I am a Christian. Through much contemplation and awareness I am consistently seeing synchronicities. Recently a close friend died, she was very proud and involved in her Irish Heritage. During the prayers of our liturgy, I prayed her name and at that exact moment, in unison the Pastor stated the same name of a congregation member. The last hymn that we sang was an Irish Hymn, Be Thou My Vision, it was as if God was reaching down and hugging me. Yes, many times during my contemplative prayer, I have come to believe that the Spiritual Realm is the true reality and not this realm in which we live.
My friend was an entertainment industry hairdresser. We held her funeral at a public beach and the beach was being used at the same time as a movie set! I thought that was pretty cool.
@@tomsheehy1 It makes no sense I know. Neither does the peace that passes all understanding, that’s why it passes all understanding. Can’t explain it to most folks. I sincerely hope and pray that you have this peace, if you do I’m happy for you.
@tomsheehy1 your comment is intellectually dishonest in insinuating that religious belief is necessarily insanity. Clinically, delusion usually components of egoism or “being unique” in one’s experiences, or being “special” in ways that go beyond the norm. Do you have sufficient evidence to conclude every religious person in Christianity has this kind of ego? What about people who are not religious? Can they be egoic and have delusions of grandeur that are categorically clinical? If so, what are you getting at when you insinuate someone religious ought to be institutionalized?
Very grateful for this discussion. Prof Allison’s comment on people not having anywhere to discuss these experiences and not having the ‘right’ words to talk about them has been a huge barrier to sharing them. Thanks for putting yourself out there Prof Allison - very much appreciated. I understand why discussion of these experiences inevitably turns to issue of verification, however given that we cannot define the concepts (particularly God!) I don’t know what research methodology you would use to test and verify any of these experiences. I think our focus should be more on courage to share and learn from these mystical experiences. I’ve just purchased the book and look forward to reading it. Thanks again 🙏.
I've had a lot of supernatural experiences growing up... about 4-6 pop up in mind. Yeah, I have definitely been praying or worshipping or in a church setting and I literally felt what I would call 'The presence of God'... it feels as if the atmosphere changes, a mystical cloud enters the room and everything in you is aware of this presence, the presence almost feels as if it's filled with love and kindness and it feels heavy and real. It often made me cry and fall to the floor. I know it sounds crazy, i have often questioned if it could be explained by natural reasoning... because I know that some people have very similar experiences in different religions and different musical settings. But, it really felt as real as having a conversation as friend, as a very analytical person, I often doubt supernatural experiences. I've also had a couple intense experiences with demonic powers, I believe.
I'd suggest you watch a video called Faith and Fear by Derren Brown, the prominent illusionist where he conjures up the very thing you experienced and explains how he does it by natural means. You might also find a book by the psychiatrist J. Anderson Thomson called "Why We Believe in Gods" to be relevant to your wonderings. As we better understand the workings of our brains and various psycho-social processes, there are ways we can understand these religious experiences from a natural point of view.
I would really love to believe you. But it's just that there is too much of "feels like" in your experience. I mean we humans can feel a lot of things. Whenever I ask a pastor or a believer about their spiritual counters with God. It is always what they feel and their interpretation based on that. If you look throughout the ot and Nt nobody " felt" as if it was the presence of God but actually witnessed him ( they either saw him or heard him).
Dont listen to these comments. I'll not go into details now but I know what you mean about being a very analytical person. These people speak from a very limited constrained philosophical framework. I were a staunch atheist for many years but then had an experience of God at my room, my life changed dramatically after that. Dont let the world close your epistemological faculties for experiencing God. I know what you mean about breaking down in tears sometimes when you feel his presence. We havent really developed a language for it, but keep it dear to your heart, even though you dont have words to explain it. The ease you and many feel the "reasonability" of staunch scepticism against supernatural experiences is mostly something coming from the society we are grown up into without knowing it. A lot of what people feel is just "common sense" is likewise. A lot of it is really a western heritage coming from the reformation where supernatural occurences were denied and condemned. This was a reaction against a lot of superstition and unhealthy practices in the catholic church but it just went the total opposite direction and threw out the baby with the bathwater. I am a protestant myself but I am not very fond of that heritage. This developed through the "enlightenement", nonsensical arguments like those of Hume, and became an integrated part of western culture which now has spread over the whole world giving an illusion of human universality. This was the seed but its now being fueled by unhealthy and hysterical practices by some charismatics and a host of other things. God bless you. See you in due time with him :)
Here you are having 4-6 supernatural experiences in just your childhood, whilst the majority of people will never come close to those events despite trying endlessly. How special you must be…
1. I find it difficult to distinguish the multiplicity of religious experiences in other traditions without adopting religious pluralism. 2. I find it suspicious that so many of these experiences are connected with altered states of consciousness and not normal brain functioning - pre/post sleep, psychedelics, epilepsy, musical group worship events, traumatic events, etc. 3. As another poster commented, what would you make of the surprising stories of reincarnation validation, where a child inexplicably identifies their prior home and family? I don’t believe those either, but they seem as well documented as any other religious claim.
I had a vision of angels as I was walking ahead of my mother and grandmother on a mountain trail. I had a vision of the pierced hand/wrist of Christ while I was driving my car. I had a second vision of Christ while I was walking my dog on a trail in the hills where we live. No doubt many have experiences in pre/post sleep, through psychedelics, seizures, and the rest, as you suggest. All of my visions have been waking visions. All took a split second, but time seemed suspended while the visions played out. I am less concerned with the visions, and more interested in how they affected me, even to this day.
I know I am reposting (annoys me when I see it elsewhere), but here goes, because it's food for thought....if you think about it, if a demonic entity wanted people to be steered away from Jesus being the true God, he WOULD cause "sleep paralysis" (and "deja vu", memories of past lives ((don't you think this would be more common of a phenomena if it were true?))) in people of all religions, and in atheists, and go away just at the right time, just to throw doubt into the search for the truth. The demonic are evil, they are also VERY deceptive, and they know how to confuse, and distort. Jacques Vallee is an astronomer, took part in Project Blue Book with John Hyneck for a time, and computer scientist, who was a consultant to Steven Spielberg when SS made Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind. Even then, he told SS that he did not think ET's , UFO's, were from outer space "but were far more interesting". He's written many books on the subject, one called "Passport to Magonia" updated version is titled "Dimensions" about how interdimensional entities have been messing with the minds of human beings since man began to make cave drawings and write, record human experiences.
Just to start im a believer and follower of Christ. In my lifetime ive had 4 main supernatural events, the main one being the most recent. Which ill mention in a bit. But i have had the experience of waking up at 1am cant move, see everything going on in the room, unable to speak, and see abou 4-6 black shadows surrounding me with red eyes just making groaning sounds. I struggled to say Jesus, but after a few moments i was finally able to get it out. And they instantly disappeared. The second was in my room years later where i cried out to God to help me and i literally felt a loving embrace like arms wrapped around me. Years after that (im leaving out a lot) an evangelist called me up on the pulpit and prophesied and when he touched me i felt the power of God flow through my body which felt like a million volts flowing through my body. Last is the most recent. On june 15th a blood clot moved to my heart causing some serious issues leading to a stroke and me coding twice within an 11 minute period. Coded once then took a few breaths for about 15 seconds then coded again for almost 5 minutes. So i literally died 2x in an 11 minute span, and God breathed life back in to me. A ton of prayer took place in that hospital and around the world. And now 3 months later im a 100% back to normal. YES GOD DOES PERFORM MIRACLES. There is a physical and spiritual realm.
That is sleep paralysis. It happened to me few time in my life. I wake up, cant move. 1 denon figure standing next to me very clearly and very detail. Im say: buddha help me over many time. Finally, demon go away and i can move my body again
@@SenEmChannel if you think about it, if a demonic entity wanted people to be steered away from Jesus being the true God, he WOULD cause "sleep paralysis" in people of all religions, and in atheists, and go away just at the right time, just to throw doubt into the search for the truth. He is evil, he's also VERY deceptive, and he knows how to confuse, and distort.
You were experiencing sleep paralysis. It's not really that uncommon. And it's not supernatural. Your brain was in an altered but awake state, but your body still asleep. It's a phenomenon that can happen during waking or during falling asleep when your brain doesn't quite wake you or fall asleep in the right pattern.
@@chewyjello1 but what if that is what you have been deceived into "knowing"? What if you and the sleep specialists have been deceived into "knowing" this? That the evil beings are just a phenomenon of your brain. Have we reached the pinnacle of knowledge? man has always thought so, just to find out a hundred or so years later, that he either was mistaken, or only scratching the surface.
I saw angels, singing, when I was about five years old, on a mountain trail on the San Francisco peninsula. I've had two visions of Christ. I vividly remember the details of both experiences. I had what I would have to say is the most lucid dream I've ever had; the dream was of my father just after he died, doing gardening at the home I grew up in. The home and yard were bathed in brilliant light, while the rest of neighborhood was dull and grey. I told my sister about the dream. But I've only shared about the angelic visions and visions of Christ with my wife, and a close friend who has also had visions. Most people are suspicious of such experiences, mainly, I think, because they are part of denominational streams that don't think such experiences are possible.
Mr. C, a phone isn’t biblical either. Neither is centralized air conditioning. It doesn’t mean those things are antithetical to the scriptures. The biblical cannon is not exhaustive of all human experience; it’s paradigmatic. If the scriptures say people have visions or experiences with angels, then it’s up to someone else to show, using the scriptures, where it says those are only valid if biblically instantiated.
@@brentcampbell459 WHAT? a continued over 2000 year brain spirit as it can only tease you till your no longer living in this cruelty of it. it only can be done with a mix up of spirit and brain is nothing but a true TEASE to the trusted honest believer is Cruelty indeed.
Yep - I’ve had the oppressive sleep thing a few times (but not for a long time now) in my 30s and knew it was evil and always called Jesus’ name and it left. And I love Jesus and gave my heart to Him 100% at age 8 and the wonder of Him has never left - it diminished a bit when some Calvinist teaching tried to stifle it, but Jesus miraculously got my family out of that evil perfectly albeit painfully but has used it for good❤️❤️
@@melissaschubert1653 as the Jews prophesized, the Messiah must be a member of the tribe of Judah and a direct descendant of King David & King Solomon, fully humans and absolutely not the son of Yahweh. Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son. There is no evidence that Jesus really had this pedigree, and the Christian Bible actually claims that he did not have a “birth-father” from the tribe of Judah descending from King David and King Solomon. During the time that the Messiah is King of Israel, the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland. Jesus was never the king of Israel and it took thousands of years after Jesus' death for Israel to be "returned" to the Jews. The Temple in Jerusalem was to be rebuilt in the time of the Messiah, but the Temple was still standing in Jesus’ day. It was destroyed 38 years after Jesus’ crucifixion and it has not yet been rebuilt. With the coming of the Messiah there should have been universal disarmament and worldwide peace with a complete end to war, which obviously hadn't happened. The Messiah would rule at a time when all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true god. That also was never fulfilled. There was never supposed to be a "second coming." This second coming doctrine is an admission that Jesus didn’t fulfill the Messianic criteria.
@@allthingsconsideredaa He was of the tribe of Judah (Matthew 1 genealogy) - He is the Son of God - as far as the details you are putting forth otherwise, I haven’t studied all that but I’m sure that the many believing theologians have and could argue the details. Hope you will come to know Him soon! He is a wonderful Savior and the redeeming Son of God❤️
@@melissaschubert1653 he was absolutely not from the tribe of Judah as a direct descendant, only by marriage. Joseph is not his blood father. The Messiah is NOT supposed to be the son of god, he is NOT supposed to be divine, he is supposed to be fully man. I hope you learn to understand the bible in it's entirety and come to accept the reality that even if there is a god, Jesus was not and is not the Messiah.
Could someone link here the site ("Taste"?) with the reports of religious experiences that Dale mentions around minute 12? I cannot seem to find it. Thanks!
Mainly angels - like Jesus - seem engaged in finding parking bays for evangelical churchgoers late for a megachurch service - while ignoring the death of millions of children from war and waterborne diseases in the developing world. My guess is it’s all about priorities.
Not sure what I saw or rather what the thing truly was. But a friend and I saw a "star" grow bigger/move closer to us. Rapidly strobe different colors non-stop, almost "blobbing" (I describe as strobing). "Multiply" or call some friends from hiding 😅. And then finally, answer our very thoughts when we asked it to perform actions that we only asked in our minds and not out loud or even to each to other (and it performed them immediately, as the very thoughts "left" our minds). I will never and can never ever forget that experience and the absolute fear I felt when I realized I wasn't just seeing some cool pretty lights in the sky but witnessing and interacting with a thinking being able to even hear and access my very thoughts (what else was within its power to do?). I would be a complete and total idiot to not let that event impact the rest of my life, as perhaps it was meant to do. These experiences humble you. Never again will you be so stupidly, ignorantly, and pathetically arrogantly dogmatic as to tell someone that something is impossible. Nor will you judge something again without investigating. If you're wise. And, for the record, eventually I thought there was sufficient evidence that what I saw actually was related to the existence of the God of the Bible. I didn't just jump the gun and seek the Bible or anything, without seeking the Bible or God, through seeming evidence, I genuinely was convinced of it. Truth is stranger than fiction (particularly for the dogmatica and extremely arrogant Western mind), but truth is worth more than gold and most any other thing this life could offer.
I have seen a shadow person riding on my bike commuting home from work one dark winter night, and a security guard at my work got a photo of the hatman in an abandoned mental asylum, I saw the photo with my own eyes, it still gives me goosebumps.
I encountered the Hatman once while I was studying abroad in France. Was an incredibly terrifying experience. Very different from sleep paralysis experiences I'd had before.
One time I was flying from star to star talking to them they had familiar voices I couldn't say whose but familiar. It was a ecstatic unconditional love feeling they said we are always with you Watching over you your never alone ect..
The more of these stories I hear, the crazier I feel. None of them are remotely close to any of my experiences. Nobody seems to have gone to the places I went, or seen the things I was shown any of the times I was taken from my body, which happened often when I was a child. (Because whenever I was being abused, they smothered me to death, to keep me quiet). Many of the things I was shown have already happened. The BEST is yet to come. Hang on and enjoy the ride. That's what they told me.
Re: levitation -- check out photographs and film footage documenting the events associated with Marian apparitions in Garabandal in Spain in early 1960s, specifically the (humanely impossible) behaviors, including levitation, of the four girls involved. By the way, there's also archival footage, available online, of the Zeitoun apparitions. As far as "simulating" meeting dead relatives, check out the Induced After Death Communication therapy method for treating grief, discovered by Allan Botkin.
Even if we aren’t seeking specific experiences to prove our faith, our culture has programmed us to attribute specific language to those phenomena. We already have an idea of what these experiences are before we experience them because of that cultural programming.
@@Cori761 He said all he needed too? unless some one wants to sneek some thing in to call other wise whether it be spiritually or brain induced is that big controled word of belief faith that never really gave a full understanding but tease wile many believers who go insane trying to find doing more than any christian could do to twist it around looking abvious as it all ways did..
I perfectly understand his experience since I too have undergone a metamorphosis or life altering experience that radically changed my attitudes & lifestyle I call it my "God" experience or "God encounter"
It was at 22:11 that I had to pause and look up his credentials, both academic and dogmatic. Getting the dialogue in Christ's Temptation backwards is kind of a big oopsy. Sure enough, he wrote a book in which he makes it clear he's not a fan of the idea of Jesus' physical resurrection, which unfortunately places him outside the confessing Church. And then he says at 48:08, "First Corinthians is not an easy chapter, as you know."
If people would like to deepdive more on the meat of the experiences Allison mentions, then they should engage with the relevant parapsychological literature that has increased as of late. Of course, Professor Allison mentions the following in his book, but you should keep in mind that it is NOT a sort of apologetic work that maintains a robust defense of the 'supernatural': in that regard, at best, it's a light introductory dive into parapsychology in a slightly theistic perspective. For starters, I would recommend picking up Erlendur Haraldsson's The Departed Among the Living and investigating about the Society for Psychical Research and the debate, from skeptics and supporters, that comes along with it and the many research projects being done today. It's amazing stuff and regardless of their ontology, they are definitely mind-bending experiences that should not be dismissively handwaved.
What about manufactured religious experience? How does one tell the difference between a “natural” religious experience and an artificial one created by the environment?
Allison's response to the question about simulation, beginning at about 1:12:57 is a total cop out. He argues that the existence of flight simulators does not mean that actual airplanes do not exist, and the experience of "seeing stars" when one is hit in the head does not mean that real stars do not exist. The argument is entirely specious and both analogies are false. In the case of flight simulators, the simulators were modeled after the fact on the real thing itself, and the existence of the real thing can be objectively verified (unlike religious experience). In the case of "seeing stars", the phrase is simply a metaphor for the experience of seeing points of light, and nobody who has the experience would claim that they actually saw "stars" in the sense of celestial objects. In the case of religious experience, the claimed experience cannot be independently and objectively verified, so there is no way of knowing whether the source of the experience is something external to the person having the experience or merely something going on in the person's brain. Brain scans of Buddhist monks and Roman Catholic nuns having religious experiences show activity in certain regions of the brain. These regions can be activated through meditation (in the case of the Buddhists) or through prayer (in the case of the Catholics), and there is no evidence that any supernatural agent is involved in causing the activation. There has not been a single case that has been studied in which a religious experience is not accompanied by certain well-recognized brain states, and these brain states can be created by some sort of mental practice (meditation or prayer) or through artificial stimulation of the brain regions in question. Flight simulators and "seeing stars" have no relevance whatsoever.
I’m an atheist but I used to have sleep paralyses, no more than 20 times, around the ages of 16 to 25ish. Never prayed when they got going just let them play out and went back to bed. I knew the first time I had one it was just in my head. They happened when I stayed up too late around 4 am. They were usually if not always introduced by a mini SP that consisted of a jump scare feeling of fear like when you jolt in a chair in class before falling asleep. So I knew I was going to have the real thing as soon I went back to sleep which I did anyway because I was tired and need rest before school or work. Once it starts you wake up forgetting everything that happened before, and only feel fear and nothing else. It’s like every part of your body and brain is still asleep but only “man in the watchtower” part of your brain is up and it’s ringing the alarm bell to wake up the townsfolk. Sometimes your paralyzed completely sometimes not. You might think someone is coming towards you. Maybe rats. Sometimes I would raise my upper body to look and I might see a vision of a cloaked (rider) in the window like the window was a tv. Or once I had put a work shirt on my door knob, I thought it was a man sitting with knees to chest just starring at me in the dark. The last time I had one it was proceeded by the mini SP. I got mad that I was gonna have deal with it that night. I must have kept my awareness more than before because I was able to use the fear and turn it into adrenaline and then I had my first lucid dream where I took the adrenaline and flying through a canyon at Mach speeds. Sort of a Night Journey type thing. After that I never had one again.
@@ChrisBrayPhotos lol yes but I wrote that to explain to the X-ians out there who might think lucid dreams and out of body experiences are evidence of something supernatural. Why did u read such old comments anyway lol?
As an atheist I had a vivid dream which happened before my eyes, a year later. This got me out of atheism to search for answers about the supernatural.
@@allthingsconsideredaa Never ceases to amaze me that athiests are so sure that there is no God or supernatural realm. The universe can pop into existence from nothing but there can't be a God.
@@curiousgeorge555 it never ceases to amaze me that theists don't understand the term atheist as most atheists use it.. I don't claim that there is no god, I just have yet to hear a god concept or claim that I believe exists in reality. I am not convinced one way or another. If I don't believe in any gods that makes me an atheist. I don't go the step further to say I believe no god exists, because maybe one day someone will give a coherent definition of a god and provide substantial evidence that can be tested and verified... For instance, if someone told me that curious George stole a bag of bananas and I said, "I don't believe that" that doesn't mean I think curious George is innocent and did not steal the bananas, it simply means I haven't yet been convinced that curious George did steal the bananas.
@@curiousgeorge555 Never ceases to amaze me that theists continue to trot out the old strawman that we believe the universe popped into existence from nothing. Nobody thinks that. We just don't buy your explanation. I've had similar experiences to the poster above. But that doesn't mean a) there isn't a rational explanation, or b) Jesus is real.
Something Professor Allison might be interested in: The book THE GRACE IN DYING by Kathleen Dowling Singh. Her years of work in hospice care and conversations with those who are going through, what she calls, the "nearing death experience," her book describes the psychological and spiritual progression a person experiences as they are dying. From her observations, she concludes that "the life and death of a human being is exquisitely calibrated to automatically produce union with the Spirit" at the end. Isn't that the ultimate goal of our Christian experience in this life? -- to finally come to a place where we are aware of and enjoy the union with God that we have by being in Christ? It's the thing that every Christian mystic strives to convey. Singh believes that we get there, if not in the prime of life, we get there in the last moments of life. Someone else observed that many may get there in the last five minutes, but they get there.
All such experiences, and I've had them too, have a material explanation. There's a academic journal I read when i was a student called The Journal of Psychical Research, it might be defunct now but could be found in a good university library. This journal documented thousand of such experiences. I was particularly amazed (and I may have some details wrong) at the Indian cultural event of children leaving their families to search and find their birth family which in countless cases occurred.
@@christophermorgan3261 If I take it for granted that everything he said is not spiritual. For instance, near death experience are not spiritual but are a result of chemicals in the brain, it solves absolutely nothing and leaves more questions than answers. At one point he talked about Alzheimer patients, who near death end up waking up lucid for some time, meaning their Alzheimer's/ dementia is not there. Materialism has been able to explain none of this, not one bit of it.
@@123duelist You're quite fortunate to hold such idealistic views. It's not so easy being a life long skeptic, esp coming as I do from from a devoutly religious family.
@@christophermorgan3261 You say,"life long skeptic." meaning even if there was evidence, you probably wouldn't have an open mind enough to accept such evidence. So I think you already made up your mind, so what would be the point of anyone trying to give you evidence?
Beginning at about 1:09:20, Dale Allison says: "Here's the thing: I think a lot of these people are having very similar experiences and because they are, they are not purely subjective, but they are giving different accounts of it." I find it difficult to accept that someone who has a doctorate and teaches at Princeton Theological Seminary can make a statement like that and get away with it. Does he really hold the opinion that the similarity of personal experiences points to objective reality, or at least to something beyond the subjectivity of the inner experience? Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people claim to have been abducted by aliens. Is Allison willing to say on the basis of the similarity of these alleged abduction experiences that these people have been objectively abducted by aliens, or at the very least that the experience is not entirely subjective? Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Haitians through history have believed that they are victims of a voodoo curse. Is Allison willing to say on the basis of the similarity of their "curse" experience that there is some objective reality to voodoo curses? It is intellectually naive to think that the commonality of subjective experience points to something beyond the subjective experience itself. All our human emotions are subjective experiences and we all experience them in similar ways-love, anger, resentment, regret, rage, jealousy. The similarity of the way in which we all experience these inner mental and emotional states in obvious, but it is equally obvious that there is nothing beyond the subjectivity of those experiences-certainly nothing objective, nothing outside of the person experiencing the mental state in question.
I remember seeing a woman that I didn't know sitting on my bed when I was a kid. There was some allergy medicine that I was taking at the time that gave me very vivid dreams.
I confess I'm sceptical when people see "winged angels". That's not biblical but an idea created by renaissance painters. Kinda gives an indication of where these visions come from.
Your "experiences" never had any possible sciwntific protocols and are always non differentiable from delusion, hallucinations or sometimes pure hysteria. BTW are you realy "skeptical" about all others Gods humans made up or do you simply not buy it ? Well it is the same for atheists but also including your own God.
@@curiousgeorge555I ll invite you to cite a random experience of paranormal/mystical event, and this will do my job. Do you have one yourself ? We've all seen thing that didn't realy existed at some point in our life. It can go from poeple intent or feeling to visual/hearing. Doesn't make one crazy or stupid. We don't perceive reality but the best that our sense can extract from it. Assuming that this is what a paranormal event is and has always been is sure prosaic but is something that is knowed as a fact to happen. Unlike miracles. That's why faith is recquired. Have you noticed how much the experiencer brain was most of the time super stressed ? Like if it was less likely to happen to someone with a current full mental capability. But you are right that my list of causes is not complete at all. lots of the time, it is simply ignorance of a very real observed event. Exemple when greeks saw thunder strike. No current good explanation means there is a gap to fill for the gods and it still stay true at this day.
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
Man, youtube comment sections are the worst place to be in all of the world. If anyone here is leaning toward academia, don't read the YT comment sections. It's just Twitters cousin.
There's a growing body of research around people's reactions to taking certain psychedelic drugs that often results in transformative, mind expanding and "transcendental" kinds of experiences which seem to have many parallels to what is being described here as experiences that are specifically "Christian". It seems obvious to me that cultural Western norms (Christianity) are at play in how such experiences are understood. The fact that similar experiences occur when someone changes their brain chemistry through a drug really muddies the waters of understanding these experiences as "religious". I'd need to have someone convincingly rule out a natural neurological understanding of these experiences before I could ever begin to think of them as having a supernatural source. Cause if these phenomenon are caused by a personal, suppoedly loving, interventionist God, then why the hell aren't such amazing experiences made available to everyone, and as often as necessary to draw everyone into belief? That would mean we wouldn't have to deal with the rather despicable moral problem of a God choosing who to reveal himself to in this special way and having to create a hell for those who don't get the experience and remain in unbelief? Big, big problem with orthodox Christianity in our modern era.
Have you considered the fact that Western cultural norms are just as much at play in *your* interpretation of how these experiences should be understood, as they are for the Christian? Discussing spiritual experiences as the product of “changes in brain chemistry” is just as much of a “narrow Western interpretation” as the supposed Christian interpretation might be.
Your logic fucking sucks. Claiming "the natural must be CONVINCINGLY RULED OUT" is unscientific. That's not how scientists do things. The electron went through 5 major overhauls in like 60 years. Why the hypocrisy?
@@repentantrevenant9776 Pretty sure there is more scientific evidence for suggesting my "narrow Western interpretation" rests on a better foundation of understanding than the Christian perspective. I understand we all have our various worldviews. My opinion is that a worldview based on science and reason is superior to one based on faith and a mix of myth/history.
You write "I'd need to have someone convincingly rule out a natural neurological understanding of these experiences before I could ever begin to think of them as having a supernatural source. " Why? BTW, despite the massive body of psychedelic research, our understanding how the subjective experience is linked to what is happening in the brain is vastly incomplete, at least for now. When you had a deep mystical experience, whether spontaneous or induced by some technique or substance, you don't reallly care about its underlying fundamental nature. What counts and is deeply transformative is your experience, and mystical experiences by their very nature leave something open, they don't give you definitive proof. But you don't really need it that much. It is the subjective experience itself, which is so incredibly precious.
@@dasGagaTier "our understanding how the subjective experience is linked to what is happening in the brain is vastly incomplete, at least for now." I'd go one step further. Subjective consciousness is wholly incompatible with a simple materialism as it's generally defined. We need to change our metaphysics and philosophy to understand consciousness. Science alone can never solve The Hard Problem.
If you’re a Christian, almost all these experiences will be related to Christianity, and thus you’d be looking at the universe through a pin hole. Christianity was created by men, and most of the tenets of Christianity was greatly influenced by the powers of those days. Greek/Roman. For example, son of god originates within Greek folklore. Ndes are experienced by all humans regardless of religion or lack of religion. The experience is tailored to the experiencer. Christians tend to see Jesus. Muslims or Hindus will have an experience related to their beliefs. The vast majority though, will experience light as the source of all things. Energy seems to be the common denominator. Universal consciousness, which we are all a part of. The study of quantum physics is beginning to offer answers. The double slit experiment offers clues as well. Please don’t close your mind and look at everything with Christian glasses as you won’t be getting the entire picture.
Addressing the title: can the theists demonstrate these phenomena are supernatural, or indeed that the supernatural exists? If so, why haven't they? It would change the world! It is not the job of the skeptic to explain what you experienced. It is your job, as the claimant, to demonstrate your claim.
Demonstrate? That's an interesting choice of words. Even if one could demonstrate the supernatural reality of these experiences, those who have never had one would most likely reject it. Even many Christians think testimonies of such experiences skirt the boundaries of heresy. I don't feel the need to defend spiritual experiences I've had to anyone. Besides, many of these experiences defy the ability to put into words. How would one describe or "demonstrate" the experience of Christ's love? Paul wrote in Eph. 3:17-19, "...I pray that you [Ephesians]...may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the length and width, height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge..." To know with a knowledge that surpasses mere knowledge, or to know with a knowledge that is beyond comprehension, beyond the ability to describe. For me, that's the most mystical statement in the Bible. I'm not taking issue with your question. I'm simply saying that some spiritual experiences are such that there is no way to describe them, certainly not in a way in which you and others might be convinced, let along demonstrate them.
@@GregAlterton Hard to know what to do with a statement like "Knowledge that is beyond comprehension". Seems kind of meaningless or nonsensical. I'm all for accepting that our awareness is limited but apart from accepting that and staying sceptically open, what else can one do? The universe and humans are strange but problems with a mostly hidden God strain my credulity.
What do you mean 'demonstrate'? You mean in a science lab? Then no because angels & demons (which are fallen angels) can not be directly manipulated by humans, we have no innate ability to control them, on the contrary they are higher beings than us, so on the contrary they can control us better than we can control them. Also keep in mind angels & demons are vastly more intelligent than us and being pure spirit they can control under what circumstances they manifest. However if you want this reality demonstrated, then one possible thing you could try is to humbly pray to Christ for your guardian angel to be revealed to you (or something like that). God could help you find the faith you lack if you asked for help. God does answer prayers.
Another way to frame the question is whether Christians and other conservative religious adherents can take such phenomena seriously without labeling it demonic if it doesn't fit in the appropriate box for "God stuff."
Probably not, but as someone who came to Christ in a conservative evangelical Baptist church in college, and now is devouring books on classical western Christian mysticism, anything is possible.
one problem is all over the world people of diff religions have the same so called experiences so what does that tell you.. either its not real or religion has nothing to do with it.. sorry christians.. you are not special...
//one problem is all over the world people of diff religions have the same so called experiences so what does that tell you.. either its not real or religion has nothing to do with it.. sorry christians.. you are not special...// What if what you just described above is part of a deception? If I were the devil, I would have my minions mess with everyone's minds, giving people from every religion, and even atheists, so as to completely confuse the issue. Christ not being special is exactly what he wants everyone to believe.
When I used to have a dream in which I felt like a demonic presence was threatening me, I would always recite The Lord's Prayer in my dream until it left. (I would become conscious that I was dreaming because I was scared.) The last time I had a dream like this I called on Papa Legba - because I'm eclectic pagan and He's supposed to be the Guardian of the crossroads between different realms. This worked just as well for me as calling on Jesus. Personally, I believe most deity forms are real and valid. I believe that Jesus is one of these, but I don't believe in Christianity as the one true path. Spiritual and seemingly spiritual experiences happen to people of all religious beliefs. Christian or non-Christian, there is guidance and help that comes to people from seemingly supernatural sources.
if you think about it, if a demonic entity wanted people to be steered away from Jesus being the true God, he WOULD cause "sleep paralysis" in people of all religions, and in atheists, and go away just at the right time, just to throw doubt into the search for the truth. He is evil, he's also VERY deceptive, and he knows how to confuse, and distort. The same would go for any supernatural experience. However, only one religion has at it's center a Savior who told us that God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in him, will have life everlasting. Who said love one another, as I have loved you. Forgive, and be good even to your enemies. Be good to those who persecute you. Take care of the poor, the widows, the orphans. Who said that the one who would be great in God's kingdom is the one who is humble and serves, or actively takes care of, all. Jesus said he came so that we would have life, abundant life. IF we learn about him, believe him, and in him , and follow his instructions.
I had a dream one afternoon when I fell asleep. I had a dream about a cia agent that was talking on the phone to me. I was scared of the cia but then I felt peace Then I saw two helicopters fly towards a building with no windows or doors. I saw some men in a room somewhere else looking at computer monitors. Then one of the helicopters landed on the building. I heard a voice say “ I’m here to protect you “ and I saw a bodyguard standing behind my house. I knew he was there 12/7 protecting me and I couldn’t accept it bc I’m not anyone special that I should deserve this kind of protection. Then I saw a warm golden light above my left shoulder. The light was love and the light came down to me and touched me and I instantly felt overwhelming peace and love and comfort. I have never felt anything like it before or since. I woke up and a few hours later I hear the announcement that Bin Laden was killed
@@Cori761 Idk, there were accounts of believers and non-believers. But yes some contradictory. If there was something (also it was announced), then this was the most extraordinary event in the 20th century imho.
Mystical experiences aren't rare. About 1/3 the population of the US have had a mystical experience. Sleep paralysis isn't considered a spiritual experience typically, it's due to waking up while you are still in REM sleep and the brain not fully waking up. At least that's the conventional explanation. After-death communications are common enough though in the past people didn't talk about them as much out of fear of being called crazy. I have experienced this myself, though it occurred in a dream while I slept. Zwingli had some surprisingly unspiritual ideas that don't really fit with Paul's experience of Jesus or his explanation of the resurrection. Zwingli tried to argue with Luther at the Marburg Colloquy than the Lord's Supper couldn't be Christ's body and blood, and Luther replied that Christ's body could go through walls and enter the Upper Room, so why couldn't it hide under a piece of bread? Zwingli denied Jesus walked through a door or wall, and said he must have used a secret door! Truly, I think Zwingli was uncomfortable with something that resisted rational explanation, and I'm not sure most Evangelicals are aware of this absurdity in his thought, that Jesus should have to use a secret door to enter the Upper Room. Luther had contact with the German mysticism of Eckhart and Tauler, and was more comfortable with the concept of a mystery.
55:50: So if there are all these very real, very evil beings around - the “weird things that mean us harm” - all of which God created or allowed to exist - btw all on an omnipotent, omniscient God’s watch! - how do we know this God you are talking about is benevolent and not some evil demiurge? How can we know if this deity means us good or harm? Frankly I’m so exhausted by this sort of thing. I have seen such mental abuse of people by Christians on this shaky premise of Satan and demons. More cruelty - and dare I say wickedness - in the ‘pray-ers’ than the ‘prayed-for’ imo. Just look at a Pentecostal meeting to see the kind of cruelty going on. Shame on this theologian for defending this stuff. I have suffered abuse as a child and developed bipolar disorder as a young man - for long years Pentecostals and evangelicals decided I was possessed and or oppressed, that I had given satan and demons some foothold in my life - how else to explain mental illness?! - and so i was judged, prayed over like some demoniac or leper. To hell with it. They implied there was a spirit of masturbation or a spirit of rebellion or a spirit of evil art (I’m an artist) or a spirit of my evil forebears or a spirit of monasticism (because I was interested in the Church Fathers) … this needs to stop and you two men should think what harm all this does to people. Call in the exorcist? Why not just push back on unscrupulous pastors and priests?
Sigh… this stuff really is so sad because it is so casually bandied about and real harm is done by people who believe this. I was even persuaded/coerced by “born again Bible believing Christians” into burning my science fiction books, my JRR Tolkien collection, even my own artwork. I was persuaded to end relationships with beautiful people because THEY might be an evil influence or ‘give Satan a foothold’. In my experience Christians themselves are instruments of deep and great harm - you dont need the Devil and his demons to act with great cruelty - just simple narrow mindedness, superstition and unkindness. And these extremes of religious cruelty are ubiquitous.
The sleep paralysis is a medical thing, not a spiritual thing. I don't get why so many ppl seem to take these sleep paralysis experiences as supernatural.
//The sleep paralysis is a medical thing, not a spiritual thing. I don't get why so many ppl seem to take these sleep paralysis experiences as supernatural.// and you know this for a fact, beyond the shadow of a doubt, how?
THE GOSPEL Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: - 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. - John 15:13 KJV SAVALATION For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - John 3:16 KJV For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. - John 14:6 KJV Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 5:10 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. - Mark 1:15 KJV He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him. - John 3:36 KJV Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9 For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Luke 19:10 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:7-8 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. - Romans 10:9-11 KJV For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. - Romans 10:13 KJV
this guy is very believable. i'm not doubting his personal experience. altho he kinda lost me at sleep paralysis. i realize "correlation doesn't equal causation" but correlation does at least point us in certain directions more than others. like if the data shows the most common denominator for sleep paralysis is insomnia, then we could conclude its most likely not the direct work of "evil spirits" or whatever. altho, you could still say "but what if the evil spirits are what is causing you to not sleep in the first place". but then thats where you're going to need some empirical evidence. does that make sense? on the other hand, if you're seriously claiming that people with near death experiences could describe stuff that was going on in another room while they were unconscious and you can provide empirical evidence of that, that would be really interesting. altho there was no empirical claim made.. why? i don't believe in this stuff. people still want "magic god". but if "magic god" existed then why would we live in a universe with physics in the first place? if magic is is at the core of everything then God could have just as easily created a nonsensical magical universe for us to live in with the same moral parameters, right? so then why physics? personally I think there is a "physical" God. you can still be a theist without believing in magic imo.
"on the other hand, if you're seriously claiming that people with near death experiences could describe stuff that was going on in another room while they were unconscious and you can provide empirical evidence of that, that would be really interesting. altho there was no empirical claim made.. why? " there are NDE's, documented ones, in which this has happened.
The real Jesus never heard before and I have seen him and know exactly what he looks like. It all happened about 30 years ago and while I was sleeping I found myself in a place I've never been before and the sand was golden and the sky was blue and I found myself standing next to Jesus himself while he was talking to three men wearing long brown robes and Jesus was wearing a brilliant white robe with a twined white rope around his waist and wearing very old sandals and his hair was brown in colour and wavy, down to his shoulders with a thin brown beard and Jesus was standing next to a brilliant white flat roof house with one window on the left and the door to the right next to the three men as Jesus was talking to them but in a different language in which I couldn't understand and this happened for ten minutes or longer and then I woke up and remembered everything and still do to this day, and I have to say that Jesus was real as I have seen him.
@@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Hi, epistemology calling. The day the supernatural is demonstrated and studied to the same degree and rigor as nature, then we can consider (and test) supernatural hypothesis for the gaps.
This is one of the problems with the Christian faith. God asks us to participate in our relationship with him so he speaks to us in a personal way. If you discou t personal experiences, you exclude the most important way God comes to us.
Very interesting that this gentlemen buys into the mystical experiences concept irrelevant of the religious context but isn't convinced of the resurrection of our Lord. This disqualifies him on every level. Furthermore, most if not all of this NDE, etc. phenomena can be rationally explained. So mysticism is not a reliable horse to hitch your wagon to.
//If Jesus was God on earth, why are his teachings so much like 2nd temple Judaism instead of teachings from the creator that are mind blowing?// What do you mean by that?
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
@@mindymild Hi, Mindy. I like your name. I'm interested in discussion with you about religion in general, including lack of religion. We can connect through email as well, but TH-cam won't let me post my email address here. It's on my TH-cam page, though.
So why do limbs never miraculously regrow? Why are these 'miracles' never obvious? God and the supernatural realm reveals itself in 'spooky' and 'wierd' ways like these but he does't want to make it to easy for us? C'mon.
@@hwd7 because natural selection works against them . 3.5 billion years ago they weren’t competing with highly evolved bacteria 3.5 billion years in the making . The first self replicators evolved in a world void of any life Now explain why limbs don’t grow back if you pray hard enough
@@tonyatkinson2210 we define life as a biological system that can self replicate, so you contradicted yourself, natural selection cannot occur until you have self replication, so how did particles become, proteins and prokaryotes via chemical evolution? Salamanders limbs do grow back, so why would we lose such an advantageous system if we shared a common ancestor?
@@hwd7 I have you an answer to your question . You asked why we don’t see life evolving from non life today . . I explained that there is too much competition from existing life . So instead of acknowledging that explanation you replace the question with another , entirely different question. Compare that with you. I asked a question , and instead of answering it , you again reported it with another question . Now please answer . Why can’t prayer work on severed limbs ?
@@tonyatkinson2210 You asked, "...Why can’t prayer work on severed limbs ?" Ok as a thought experiment, let's say that God did one time decide to spontaneously heal someone's severed limb and it grew back. I'm sure the evolutionary sceptics would say it was due to an evolutionary mutation from our Salamander ancestors which can grow back limbs and organs. Or it was stem cells that reactivated or any other natural explanation. An atheist is 100% biased against any supernatural intervention whatsoever so they will invoke any rescuing device explain the data. Second, when Yeshua walked Jerusalem 2000 years ago he did heal a man with a withered hand, yet people only followed Him because of the benefits not because they loved Him. So why should God heal people who are only in it for themselves as if He is just a parlour trick or a bellhop? Ultimately people who were victims of thalidomide or other disorders will receive a resurrection body that is whole and will never get sick or diseased at the resurrection for everyone that puts their trust in Yeshua. This is the blessed hope of every Christian. Part of our Dominion mandate is to overcome the curse, which is why people like Professor James Tour are working on reversing spinal chord injuries and others are working on adult stem cell therapy etc. But ultimately we are all going to die and receive a resurrection body that will spend eternity in Heaven with those that trust in Yeshua. I hope you change your mind and make that decision too.
In my mind, the primary problem with supposed supernatural encounters is what I would call *The Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome.* We all know what that means... ( _except for those who don't_ ). It comes from a parable ( _NOT a Biblical one_ ) wherein... ------------------ •~• ---------------- *Once upon a time,* a village of shepherds starts to experience wolf attacks on their sheep. So, one of the boys from the village volunteers to take the night watch at the top of the hill, above the meadow where the sheep sleep and graze. A few hours after the villagers go to sleep, the boy runs through the village crying loudly, *_"WOLF, WOLF!"_* The villagers all rush out of their houses over to the hill. However, they soon discover that there are no sheep missing and no evidence of a wolf. The boy chuckles to himself while all of the villagers angrily return to their homes for some sleep. The next night, again...a few hours after the villagers go to sleep, the boy runs through the village crying loudly, *_"WOLF, WOLF!"_* The villagers all rush out of their houses over to the hill. However, *AGAIN* they discover that there are no sheep missing and no evidence of a wolf. Again, the boy chuckles to himself while all of the villagers angrily return to their homes for some sleep. The third night, a few hours after the villagers go to sleep, the boy sees a pack of wolves *_Actually attacking the sheep!_* Very quickly, he runs through the village crying as loudly as possible, *_"WOLF, WOLF!"_* Fed up, the villagers all shouted at him, , *"BE QUIET! GO AWAY! STOP LYING!"* As morning broke, the villagers walked over to the hill, only to discover that with the exception of some scattered bones and some sheep’s wool, there was not even _one living sheep left!_ ------------------ •~• ---------------- ...and _that_ is the problem! For years...DECADES EVEN... there have been claims of all sorts of supernatural occurences...such as healings, angels, miracles, etc. However, they all always turn out to either be... *A)* A fabricated lie...such as the *_aptly_* named, _Alex _*_Malarkey,_* who confessed that his story about angels and Heaven etc. was all a lie. Or... *B)* Lacking any credible *evidence.* Afterall...we live in the age of *ubiquitous cameras* _...so many cameras_ in fact that it seems *_impossible_* for anything to happen anywhere without *_some_* camera catching a shot of it! And so, because of this, we end up with *The Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome.* Wherein, we have no credible reason to believe that the miracles are actually happening because if one of the stories actually were true, it would be too difficult to believe due to all of the verifiable lies. As a matter of fact, there is currently an almost *war* between horrid televangelists in Africa, competing with one another by performing magic tricks which they pawn off as true miracles...but they are clearly *_bogus miracles._* You just cannot make this stuff up! I believe that God absolutely _can_ perform _any_ miracle that He'd like to, whenever and wherever He chooses...and I believe that He even does _on occasion_ perform miracles great and small. However, I believe that the overwhelming majority of what we hear and/or witness on TV, radio, internet...or even at cheesy _"miracle" meetings_ put on by _so-called faith healers, apostles and prophets,_ are not genuine miracles, but rather they are the wolves in sheep’s clothing that our Lord warned us would come and invade the church...even the leadership, and deceive many! _“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."_ *MATTHEW 7:15* _"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."_ *ROMANS 16:17-18* _"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds."_ *2 CORINTHIANS 11:13-15* _"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."_ *2 TIMOTHY 4:3* _"And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold."_ *MATTHEW 24:11-13* _“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"_ *MATTHEW 7:21-23*
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
@@mbgrafix Good question. I'm glad you asked. I prefer other methods of asynchronous communication. I can't say the name of it here because TH-cam will delete my post. It's more effective than this platform.
@@lark8356 I very much prefer my conversations to take place in a public forum...and considering the topic, I can think of no better place to discuss this topic. In this way, others can both join in and benefit from the discussion. If this is unacceptable to you, then I must politely decline.
Allllll experiences can be explained EASILY in non-dualism! Advaita Vedanta, for example, believes that Consciousness is Primal and The Mind of God is ALL that exists. You, me, the ENTIRE universe is INSIDE God's Mind. So, we are basically God's thoughts. The philosophy is based upon the ancient Upanishads, frin the Indus Valley (Nondual Hinduism). In this philosophy, waking, dreaming, hallucinating, no dreamers sleeping, etc are ALL equally God experiencing God's own thoughts THROUGH the mask of our egos. We are merely dissociated perspectives of God. So, EVERY Consciousness experience is God. So, if you see/dream/imagine an Engel, for example, the angel is no more real than a thought. No stand alone existence. Merely an experience in waves of Consciousness.
@@liljade53 yeah, that belief is certainly an option. About as likely to be true as me winning the lottery 7 times in a row, but, stranger things have happened. Enjoy!
I think skepticism on a scale has two extremes that are probably illogical, how can I be open to new data without being gullible, how can I accept something without certainty?
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
Lets face it, religious people will believe anything. You think jesus was born on Dec 25 th but it was sept. Christians took pagan festival of december for his birthday. They also took easter from pagan festival and harvest festival..
Something Mr. Allison said has really resonated with me. I have been researching and reading a lot about Near Death Experience, Contemplation, Physics and Carl Jung’s theories on Synchronicity (that there are no coincidences). Let me say that I am a Christian. Through much contemplation and awareness I am consistently seeing synchronicities. Recently a close friend died, she was very proud and involved in her Irish Heritage. During the prayers of our liturgy, I prayed her name and at that exact moment, in unison the Pastor stated the same name of a congregation member. The last hymn that we sang was an Irish Hymn, Be Thou My Vision, it was as if God was reaching down and hugging me. Yes, many times during my contemplative prayer, I have come to believe that the Spiritual Realm is the true reality and not this realm in which we live.
My friend was an entertainment industry hairdresser. We held her funeral at a public beach and the beach was being used at the same time as a movie set! I thought that was pretty cool.
"It was as if the flying spaghetti monster was reaching down and hugging me ". Are you an adult and if so are you on day release from an institution.
@@tomsheehy1 It makes no sense I know. Neither does the peace that passes all understanding, that’s why it passes all understanding. Can’t explain it to most folks. I sincerely hope and pray that you have this peace, if you do I’m happy for you.
@@JD-HatCreekCattleCo Thanks for your courteous reply . Peace be with you also.
@tomsheehy1 your comment is intellectually dishonest in insinuating that religious belief is necessarily insanity. Clinically, delusion usually components of egoism or “being unique” in one’s experiences, or being “special” in ways that go beyond the norm. Do you have sufficient evidence to conclude every religious person in Christianity has this kind of ego? What about people who are not religious? Can they be egoic and have delusions of grandeur that are categorically clinical? If so, what are you getting at when you insinuate someone religious ought to be institutionalized?
Very grateful for this discussion. Prof Allison’s comment on people not having anywhere to discuss these experiences and not having the ‘right’ words to talk about them has been a huge barrier to sharing them. Thanks for putting yourself out there Prof Allison - very much appreciated. I understand why discussion of these experiences inevitably turns to issue of verification, however given that we cannot define the concepts (particularly God!) I don’t know what research methodology you would use to test and verify any of these experiences. I think our focus should be more on courage to share and learn from these mystical experiences. I’ve just purchased the book and look forward to reading it. Thanks again 🙏.
Thank you very much for sharing this fascinating conversation!
I wiitnessed Derren Brown produce a spiritual experience of god the father in an atheist. Gentle prior Suggestions and expectation is amazing. Placebo
I've had a lot of supernatural experiences growing up... about 4-6 pop up in mind. Yeah, I have definitely been praying or worshipping or in a church setting and I literally felt what I would call 'The presence of God'... it feels as if the atmosphere changes, a mystical cloud enters the room and everything in you is aware of this presence, the presence almost feels as if it's filled with love and kindness and it feels heavy and real. It often made me cry and fall to the floor. I know it sounds crazy, i have often questioned if it could be explained by natural reasoning... because I know that some people have very similar experiences in different religions and different musical settings. But, it really felt as real as having a conversation as friend, as a very analytical person, I often doubt supernatural experiences. I've also had a couple intense experiences with demonic powers, I believe.
I'd suggest you watch a video called Faith and Fear by Derren Brown, the prominent illusionist where he conjures up the very thing you experienced and explains how he does it by natural means. You might also find a book by the psychiatrist J. Anderson Thomson called "Why We Believe in Gods" to be relevant to your wonderings. As we better understand the workings of our brains and various psycho-social processes, there are ways we can understand these religious experiences from a natural point of view.
I would really love to believe you. But it's just that there is too much of "feels like" in your experience. I mean we humans can feel a lot of things. Whenever I ask a pastor or a believer about their spiritual counters with God. It is always what they feel and their interpretation based on that. If you look throughout the ot and Nt nobody " felt" as if it was the presence of God but actually witnessed him ( they either saw him or heard him).
Dont listen to these comments. I'll not go into details now but I know what you mean about being a very analytical person. These people speak from a very limited constrained philosophical framework. I were a staunch atheist for many years but then had an experience of God at my room, my life changed dramatically after that. Dont let the world close your epistemological faculties for experiencing God. I know what you mean about breaking down in tears sometimes when you feel his presence. We havent really developed a language for it, but keep it dear to your heart, even though you dont have words to explain it.
The ease you and many feel the "reasonability" of staunch scepticism against supernatural experiences is mostly something coming from the society we are grown up into without knowing it. A lot of what people feel is just "common sense" is likewise. A lot of it is really a western heritage coming from the reformation where supernatural occurences were denied and condemned. This was a reaction against a lot of superstition and unhealthy practices in the catholic church but it just went the total opposite direction and threw out the baby with the bathwater. I am a protestant myself but I am not very fond of that heritage. This developed through the "enlightenement", nonsensical arguments like those of Hume, and became an integrated part of western culture which now has spread over the whole world giving an illusion of human universality. This was the seed but its now being fueled by unhealthy and hysterical practices by some charismatics and a host of other things.
God bless you. See you in due time with him :)
@@apurvanair2056 totally agree
Here you are having 4-6 supernatural experiences in just your childhood, whilst the majority of people will never come close to those events despite trying endlessly. How special you must be…
1. I find it difficult to distinguish the multiplicity of religious experiences in other traditions without adopting religious pluralism. 2. I find it suspicious that so many of these experiences are connected with altered states of consciousness and not normal brain functioning - pre/post sleep, psychedelics, epilepsy, musical group worship events, traumatic events, etc. 3. As another poster commented, what would you make of the surprising stories of reincarnation validation, where a child inexplicably identifies their prior home and family? I don’t believe those either, but they seem as well documented as any other religious claim.
I had a vision of angels as I was walking ahead of my mother and grandmother on a mountain trail. I had a vision of the pierced hand/wrist of Christ while I was driving my car. I had a second vision of Christ while I was walking my dog on a trail in the hills where we live. No doubt many have experiences in pre/post sleep, through psychedelics, seizures, and the rest, as you suggest. All of my visions have been waking visions. All took a split second, but time seemed suspended while the visions played out. I am less concerned with the visions, and more interested in how they affected me, even to this day.
@@GregAlterton , and how did the visions affect you, even to the present day, if I might ask? This is important information.
Yeah, kinda disappointed Justin didn't press him on these things.
I know I am reposting (annoys me when I see it elsewhere), but here goes, because it's food for thought....if you think about it, if a demonic entity wanted people to be steered away from Jesus being the true God, he WOULD cause "sleep paralysis" (and "deja vu", memories of past lives ((don't you think this would be more common of a phenomena if it were true?))) in people of all religions, and in atheists, and go away just at the right time, just to throw doubt into the search for the truth. The demonic are evil, they are also VERY deceptive, and they know how to confuse, and distort. Jacques Vallee is an astronomer, took part in Project Blue Book with John Hyneck for a time, and computer scientist, who was a consultant to Steven Spielberg when SS made Close Encounters of the 3rd Kind. Even then, he told SS that he did not think ET's , UFO's, were from outer space "but were far more interesting". He's written many books on the subject, one called "Passport to Magonia" updated version is titled "Dimensions" about how interdimensional entities have been messing with the minds of human beings since man began to make cave drawings and write, record human experiences.
@@GregAlterton How do you know they were "visions"? How about "vivid imagination"?
Just to start im a believer and follower of Christ. In my lifetime ive had 4 main supernatural events, the main one being the most recent. Which ill mention in a bit. But i have had the experience of waking up at 1am cant move, see everything going on in the room, unable to speak, and see abou 4-6 black shadows surrounding me with red eyes just making groaning sounds. I struggled to say Jesus, but after a few moments i was finally able to get it out. And they instantly disappeared. The second was in my room years later where i cried out to God to help me and i literally felt a loving embrace like arms wrapped around me. Years after that (im leaving out a lot) an evangelist called me up on the pulpit and prophesied and when he touched me i felt the power of God flow through my body which felt like a million volts flowing through my body. Last is the most recent. On june 15th a blood clot moved to my heart causing some serious issues leading to a stroke and me coding twice within an 11 minute period. Coded once then took a few breaths for about 15 seconds then coded again for almost 5 minutes. So i literally died 2x in an 11 minute span, and God breathed life back in to me. A ton of prayer took place in that hospital and around the world. And now 3 months later im a 100% back to normal. YES GOD DOES PERFORM MIRACLES. There is a physical and spiritual realm.
That is sleep paralysis. It happened to me few time in my life. I wake up, cant move. 1 denon figure standing next to me very clearly and very detail. Im say: buddha help me over many time. Finally, demon go away and i can move my body again
@@SenEmChannel if you think about it, if a demonic entity wanted people to be steered away from Jesus being the true God, he WOULD cause "sleep paralysis" in people of all religions, and in atheists, and go away just at the right time, just to throw doubt into the search for the truth. He is evil, he's also VERY deceptive, and he knows how to confuse, and distort.
@@liljade53 that is 1 possible explain. Another explaination is, that just human brain phenomenon
You were experiencing sleep paralysis. It's not really that uncommon. And it's not supernatural. Your brain was in an altered but awake state, but your body still asleep. It's a phenomenon that can happen during waking or during falling asleep when your brain doesn't quite wake you or fall asleep in the right pattern.
@@chewyjello1 but what if that is what you have been deceived into "knowing"? What if you and the sleep specialists have been deceived into "knowing" this? That the evil beings are just a phenomenon of your brain. Have we reached the pinnacle of knowledge?
man has always thought so, just to find out a hundred or so years later, that he either was mistaken, or only scratching the surface.
I saw angels, singing, when I was about five years old, on a mountain trail on the San Francisco peninsula. I've had two visions of Christ. I vividly remember the details of both experiences. I had what I would have to say is the most lucid dream I've ever had; the dream was of my father just after he died, doing gardening at the home I grew up in. The home and yard were bathed in brilliant light, while the rest of neighborhood was dull and grey. I told my sister about the dream. But I've only shared about the angelic visions and visions of Christ with my wife, and a close friend who has also had visions. Most people are suspicious of such experiences, mainly, I think, because they are part of denominational streams that don't think such experiences are possible.
How did you know it was "Christ"? How did you distinguish one shining man(Christ) from another shining man(angels)?
None of what you shared is biblical.
Mr. C, a phone isn’t biblical either. Neither is centralized air conditioning. It doesn’t mean those things are antithetical to the scriptures. The biblical cannon is not exhaustive of all human experience; it’s paradigmatic.
If the scriptures say people have visions or experiences with angels, then it’s up to someone else to show, using the scriptures, where it says those are only valid if biblically instantiated.
@@brentcampbell459 WHAT? a continued over 2000 year brain spirit as it can only tease you till your no longer living in this cruelty of it. it only can be done with a mix up of spirit and brain is nothing but a true TEASE to the trusted honest believer is Cruelty indeed.
Yep - I’ve had the oppressive sleep thing a few times (but not for a long time now) in my 30s and knew it was evil and always called Jesus’ name and it left. And I love Jesus and gave my heart to Him 100% at age 8 and the wonder of Him has never left - it diminished a bit when some Calvinist teaching tried to stifle it, but Jesus miraculously got my family out of that evil perfectly albeit painfully but has used it for good❤️❤️
Jesus didn't fulfill messianic prophecy.
@@allthingsconsideredaa ?🤪
@@melissaschubert1653 as the Jews prophesized, the Messiah must be a member of the tribe of Judah and a direct descendant of King David & King Solomon, fully humans and absolutely not the son of Yahweh. Genealogy in the Bible is only passed down from father to son. There is no evidence that Jesus really had this pedigree, and the Christian Bible actually claims that he did not have a “birth-father” from the tribe of Judah descending from King David and King Solomon. During the time that the Messiah is King of Israel, the Jews will be ingathered from their exile and will return to Israel, their homeland. Jesus was never the king of Israel and it took thousands of years after Jesus' death for Israel to be "returned" to the Jews. The Temple in Jerusalem was to be rebuilt in the time of the Messiah, but the Temple was still standing in Jesus’ day. It was destroyed 38 years after Jesus’ crucifixion and it has not yet been rebuilt. With the coming of the Messiah there should have been universal disarmament and worldwide peace with a complete end to war, which obviously hadn't happened. The Messiah would rule at a time when all the people of the world will come to acknowledge and serve the one true god. That also was never fulfilled. There was never supposed to be a "second coming." This second coming doctrine is an admission that Jesus didn’t fulfill the Messianic criteria.
@@allthingsconsideredaa He was of the tribe of Judah (Matthew 1 genealogy) - He is the Son of God - as far as the details you are putting forth otherwise, I haven’t studied all that but I’m sure that the many believing theologians have and could argue the details. Hope you will come to know Him soon! He is a wonderful Savior and the redeeming Son of God❤️
@@melissaschubert1653 he was absolutely not from the tribe of Judah as a direct descendant, only by marriage. Joseph is not his blood father. The Messiah is NOT supposed to be the son of god, he is NOT supposed to be divine, he is supposed to be fully man. I hope you learn to understand the bible in it's entirety and come to accept the reality that even if there is a god, Jesus was not and is not the Messiah.
Enjoyed this discussion.Thanks.
Could someone link here the site ("Taste"?) with the reports of religious experiences that Dale mentions around minute 12? I cannot seem to find it. Thanks!
Excellent discussion. Thank you guys!
Thank you from Sweden 😊!
Angels may intervene to prevent tragedies at times. Other times they seem to be asleep on the job.
Mainly angels - like Jesus - seem engaged in finding parking bays for evangelical churchgoers late for a megachurch service - while ignoring the death of millions of children from war and waterborne diseases in the developing world. My guess is it’s all about priorities.
Thank you Dale. I love your soft approach to belief. Re the resurrection body, be brave and read the Urantia Revelation. Daune
Outstanding conversation…buying this book asap 😀
The most rigorous form of skepticism is actually applied in your assessment of religious experiences outside of your own religion.
Not sure what I saw or rather what the thing truly was. But a friend and I saw a "star" grow bigger/move closer to us. Rapidly strobe different colors non-stop, almost "blobbing" (I describe as strobing). "Multiply" or call some friends from hiding 😅. And then finally, answer our very thoughts when we asked it to perform actions that we only asked in our minds and not out loud or even to each to other (and it performed them immediately, as the very thoughts "left" our minds).
I will never and can never ever forget that experience and the absolute fear I felt when I realized I wasn't just seeing some cool pretty lights in the sky but witnessing and interacting with a thinking being able to even hear and access my very thoughts (what else was within its power to do?). I would be a complete and total idiot to not let that event impact the rest of my life, as perhaps it was meant to do.
These experiences humble you. Never again will you be so stupidly, ignorantly, and pathetically arrogantly dogmatic as to tell someone that something is impossible. Nor will you judge something again without investigating. If you're wise.
And, for the record, eventually I thought there was sufficient evidence that what I saw actually was related to the existence of the God of the Bible. I didn't just jump the gun and seek the Bible or anything, without seeking the Bible or God, through seeming evidence, I genuinely was convinced of it.
Truth is stranger than fiction (particularly for the dogmatica and extremely arrogant Western mind), but truth is worth more than gold and most any other thing this life could offer.
I thoroughly enjoy these programs! Thank you
I have seen a shadow person riding on my bike commuting home from work one dark winter night, and a security guard at my work got a photo of the hatman in an abandoned mental asylum, I saw the photo with my own eyes, it still gives me goosebumps.
I encountered the Hatman once while I was studying abroad in France. Was an incredibly terrifying experience. Very different from sleep paralysis experiences I'd had before.
@@ChillaxinChris Thank you for sharing your chilling experience.👍
I appreciate Elaine Pagels for sharing she herself has had experiences she "cannot explain."
One time I was flying from star to star talking to them they had familiar voices I couldn't say whose but familiar. It was a ecstatic unconditional love feeling they said we are always with you Watching over you your never alone ect..
The more of these stories I hear, the crazier I feel. None of them are remotely close to any of my experiences. Nobody seems to have gone to the places I went, or seen the things I was shown any of the times I was taken from my body, which happened often when I was a child. (Because whenever I was being abused, they smothered me to death, to keep me quiet).
Many of the things I was shown have already happened.
The BEST is yet to come.
Hang on and
enjoy the ride.
That's what they told me.
Short answer, yes.
Re: levitation -- check out photographs and film footage documenting the events associated with Marian apparitions in Garabandal in Spain in early 1960s, specifically the (humanely impossible) behaviors, including levitation, of the four girls involved.
By the way, there's also archival footage, available online, of the Zeitoun apparitions.
As far as "simulating" meeting dead relatives, check out the Induced After Death Communication therapy method for treating grief, discovered by Allan Botkin.
Even if we aren’t seeking specific experiences to prove our faith, our culture has programmed us to attribute specific language to those phenomena. We already have an idea of what these experiences are before we experience them because of that cultural programming.
I totally agree, but do you think there are such things as legit supernatural experiences?
Ya and we continue to ignore it. a loving God would tease away for 2000 years is not loving.
@@Cori761 He said all he needed too? unless some one wants to sneek some thing in to call other wise whether it be spiritually or brain induced is that big controled word of belief faith that never really gave a full understanding but tease wile many believers who go insane trying to find doing more than any christian could do to twist it around looking abvious as it all ways did..
I perfectly understand his experience since I too have undergone a metamorphosis or life altering experience that radically changed my attitudes & lifestyle
I call it my "God" experience or "God encounter"
It was at 22:11 that I had to pause and look up his credentials, both academic and dogmatic. Getting the dialogue in Christ's Temptation backwards is kind of a big oopsy. Sure enough, he wrote a book in which he makes it clear he's not a fan of the idea of Jesus' physical resurrection, which unfortunately places him outside the confessing Church. And then he says at 48:08, "First Corinthians is not an easy chapter, as you know."
If people would like to deepdive more on the meat of the experiences Allison mentions, then they should engage with the relevant parapsychological literature that has increased as of late. Of course, Professor Allison mentions the following in his book, but you should keep in mind that it is NOT a sort of apologetic work that maintains a robust defense of the 'supernatural': in that regard, at best, it's a light introductory dive into parapsychology in a slightly theistic perspective. For starters, I would recommend picking up Erlendur Haraldsson's The Departed Among the Living and investigating about the Society for Psychical Research and the debate, from skeptics and supporters, that comes along with it and the many research projects being done today. It's amazing stuff and regardless of their ontology, they are definitely mind-bending experiences that should not be dismissively handwaved.
Is the "taste" site public?
What about manufactured religious experience? How does one tell the difference between a “natural” religious experience and an artificial one created by the environment?
Allison's response to the question about simulation, beginning at about 1:12:57 is a total cop out. He argues that the existence of flight simulators does not mean that actual airplanes do not exist, and the experience of "seeing stars" when one is hit in the head does not mean that real stars do not exist. The argument is entirely specious and both analogies are false. In the case of flight simulators, the simulators were modeled after the fact on the real thing itself, and the existence of the real thing can be objectively verified (unlike religious experience). In the case of "seeing stars", the phrase is simply a metaphor for the experience of seeing points of light, and nobody who has the experience would claim that they actually saw "stars" in the sense of celestial objects. In the case of religious experience, the claimed experience cannot be independently and objectively verified, so there is no way of knowing whether the source of the experience is something external to the person having the experience or merely something going on in the person's brain. Brain scans of Buddhist monks and Roman Catholic nuns having religious experiences show activity in certain regions of the brain. These regions can be activated through meditation (in the case of the Buddhists) or through prayer (in the case of the Catholics), and there is no evidence that any supernatural agent is involved in causing the activation. There has not been a single case that has been studied in which a religious experience is not accompanied by certain well-recognized brain states, and these brain states can be created by some sort of mental practice (meditation or prayer) or through artificial stimulation of the brain regions in question. Flight simulators and "seeing stars" have no relevance whatsoever.
I’m an atheist but I used to have sleep paralyses, no more than 20 times, around the ages of 16 to 25ish. Never prayed when they got going just let them play out and went back to bed. I knew the first time I had one it was just in my head. They happened when I stayed up too late around 4 am. They were usually if not always introduced by a mini SP that consisted of a jump scare feeling of fear like when you jolt in a chair in class before falling asleep. So I knew I was going to have the real thing as soon I went back to sleep which I did anyway because I was tired and need rest before school or work. Once it starts you wake up forgetting everything that happened before, and only feel fear and nothing else. It’s like every part of your body and brain is still asleep but only “man in the watchtower” part of your brain is up and it’s ringing the alarm bell to wake up the townsfolk. Sometimes your paralyzed completely sometimes not. You might think someone is coming towards you. Maybe rats. Sometimes I would raise my upper body to look and I might see a vision of a cloaked (rider) in the window like the window was a tv. Or once I had put a work shirt on my door knob, I thought it was a man sitting with knees to chest just starring at me in the dark. The last time I had one it was proceeded by the mini SP. I got mad that I was gonna have deal with it that night. I must have kept my awareness more than before because I was able to use the fear and turn it into adrenaline and then I had my first lucid dream where I took the adrenaline and flying through a canyon at Mach speeds. Sort of a Night Journey type thing. After that I never had one again.
Hallucinations.
@@gulanhem9495I mean yeah he literally said it was sleep paralysis/lucid dreaming
@@ChrisBrayPhotos
lol yes but I wrote that to explain to the X-ians out there who might think lucid dreams and out of body experiences are evidence of something supernatural.
Why did u read such old comments anyway lol?
As an atheist I had a vivid dream which happened before my eyes, a year later. This got me out of atheism to search for answers about the supernatural.
Lol
@@allthingsconsideredaa Never ceases to amaze me that athiests are so sure that there is no God or supernatural realm. The universe can pop into existence from nothing but there can't be a God.
@@curiousgeorge555 it never ceases to amaze me that theists don't understand the term atheist as most atheists use it.. I don't claim that there is no god, I just have yet to hear a god concept or claim that I believe exists in reality. I am not convinced one way or another. If I don't believe in any gods that makes me an atheist. I don't go the step further to say I believe no god exists, because maybe one day someone will give a coherent definition of a god and provide substantial evidence that can be tested and verified... For instance, if someone told me that curious George stole a bag of bananas and I said, "I don't believe that" that doesn't mean I think curious George is innocent and did not steal the bananas, it simply means I haven't yet been convinced that curious George did steal the bananas.
@@curiousgeorge555 Never ceases to amaze me that theists continue to trot out the old strawman that we believe the universe popped into existence from nothing. Nobody thinks that. We just don't buy your explanation. I've had similar experiences to the poster above. But that doesn't mean a) there isn't a rational explanation, or b) Jesus is real.
@@allthingsconsideredaa Sounds more like agnosticism to me.
Something Professor Allison might be interested in: The book THE GRACE IN DYING by Kathleen Dowling Singh. Her years of work in hospice care and conversations with those who are going through, what she calls, the "nearing death experience," her book describes the psychological and spiritual progression a person experiences as they are dying. From her observations, she concludes that "the life and death of a human being is exquisitely calibrated to automatically produce union with the Spirit" at the end. Isn't that the ultimate goal of our Christian experience in this life? -- to finally come to a place where we are aware of and enjoy the union with God that we have by being in Christ? It's the thing that every Christian mystic strives to convey. Singh believes that we get there, if not in the prime of life, we get there in the last moments of life. Someone else observed that many may get there in the last five minutes, but they get there.
This is hopeful
@@ritapacheco8084 Hope its not man made.
All such experiences, and I've had them too, have a material explanation. There's a academic journal I read when i was a student called The Journal of Psychical Research, it might be defunct now but could be found in a good university library. This journal documented thousand of such experiences. I was particularly amazed (and I may have some details wrong) at the Indian cultural event of children leaving their families to search and find their birth family which in countless cases occurred.
So what is the material explanation? Also what does children finding their birth parents have to do with the spiritual experiences?
@@123duelist No appeals to emotional, irrational, mystical or metaphysical explanation, , , research the journal recommended.
@@christophermorgan3261 If I take it for granted that everything he said is not spiritual. For instance, near death experience are not spiritual but are a result of chemicals in the brain, it solves absolutely nothing and leaves more questions than answers. At one point he talked about Alzheimer patients, who near death end up waking up lucid for some time, meaning their Alzheimer's/ dementia is not there. Materialism has been able to explain none of this, not one bit of it.
@@123duelist You're quite fortunate to hold such idealistic views. It's not so easy being a life long skeptic, esp coming as I do from from a devoutly religious family.
@@christophermorgan3261 You say,"life long skeptic." meaning even if there was evidence, you probably wouldn't have an open mind enough to accept such evidence. So I think you already made up your mind, so what would be the point of anyone trying to give you evidence?
Beginning at about 1:09:20, Dale Allison says: "Here's the thing: I think a lot of these people are having very similar experiences and because they are, they are not purely subjective, but they are giving different accounts of it." I find it difficult to accept that someone who has a doctorate and teaches at Princeton Theological Seminary can make a statement like that and get away with it. Does he really hold the opinion that the similarity of personal experiences points to objective reality, or at least to something beyond the subjectivity of the inner experience? Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of people claim to have been abducted by aliens. Is Allison willing to say on the basis of the similarity of these alleged abduction experiences that these people have been objectively abducted by aliens, or at the very least that the experience is not entirely subjective? Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Haitians through history have believed that they are victims of a voodoo curse. Is Allison willing to say on the basis of the similarity of their "curse" experience that there is some objective reality to voodoo curses? It is intellectually naive to think that the commonality of subjective experience points to something beyond the subjective experience itself. All our human emotions are subjective experiences and we all experience them in similar ways-love, anger, resentment, regret, rage, jealousy. The similarity of the way in which we all experience these inner mental and emotional states in obvious, but it is equally obvious that there is nothing beyond the subjectivity of those experiences-certainly nothing objective, nothing outside of the person experiencing the mental state in question.
Wondering if your guest ever read or interviewed Sophie Burnham speaking of Angel books, big in the 90's.
Never thought DA was an NDE guy, really surprised
I remember seeing a woman that I didn't know sitting on my bed when I was a kid. There was some allergy medicine that I was taking at the time that gave me very vivid dreams.
I'm off to buy some allergy medicines, thanks.
I confess I'm sceptical when people see "winged angels". That's not biblical but an idea created by renaissance painters. Kinda gives an indication of where these visions come from.
Your "experiences" never had any possible sciwntific protocols and are always non differentiable from delusion, hallucinations or sometimes pure hysteria.
BTW are you realy "skeptical" about all others Gods humans made up or do you simply not buy it ?
Well it is the same for atheists but also including your own God.
"and are always non differentiable from delusion, hallucinations or sometimes pure hysteria."
How can you back up this truth claim?
@@curiousgeorge555I ll invite you to cite a random experience of paranormal/mystical event, and this will do my job.
Do you have one yourself ?
We've all seen thing that didn't realy existed at some point in our life.
It can go from poeple intent or feeling to visual/hearing. Doesn't make one crazy or stupid. We don't perceive reality but the best that our sense can extract from it. Assuming that this is what a paranormal event is and has always been is sure prosaic but is something that is knowed as a fact to happen. Unlike miracles.
That's why faith is recquired.
Have you noticed how much the experiencer brain was most of the time super stressed ? Like if it was less likely to happen to someone with a current full mental capability.
But you are right that my list of causes is not complete at all. lots of the time, it is simply ignorance of a very real observed event.
Exemple when greeks saw thunder strike. No current good explanation means there is a gap to fill for the gods and it still stay true at this day.
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
@@lark8356 sure
Can vocal and chat with anyone willing.
I have a discord and a randomised Facebook account i never use.
Which do you prefer ?
@@hexa1905 Let's try Facebook, please.
Man, youtube comment sections are the worst place to be in all of the world.
If anyone here is leaning toward academia, don't read the YT comment sections.
It's just Twitters cousin.
Any yet here you are. Maybe you're drawn to this discussion.
@@GregAlterton no, It just appeared in my feed, and I just accidently saw the comment section tbh. Don't mind me here
There's a growing body of research around people's reactions to taking certain psychedelic drugs that often results in transformative, mind expanding and "transcendental" kinds of experiences which seem to have many parallels to what is being described here as experiences that are specifically "Christian".
It seems obvious to me that cultural Western norms (Christianity) are at play in how such experiences are understood. The fact that similar experiences occur when someone changes their brain chemistry through a drug really muddies the waters of understanding these experiences as "religious".
I'd need to have someone convincingly rule out a natural neurological understanding of these experiences before I could ever begin to think of them as having a supernatural source. Cause if these phenomenon are caused by a personal, suppoedly loving, interventionist God, then why the hell aren't such amazing experiences made available to everyone, and as often as necessary to draw everyone into belief? That would mean we wouldn't have to deal with the rather despicable moral problem of a God choosing who to reveal himself to in this special way and having to create a hell for those who don't get the experience and remain in unbelief? Big, big problem with orthodox Christianity in our modern era.
Have you considered the fact that Western cultural norms are just as much at play in *your* interpretation of how these experiences should be understood, as they are for the Christian? Discussing spiritual experiences as the product of “changes in brain chemistry” is just as much of a “narrow Western interpretation” as the supposed Christian interpretation might be.
Your logic fucking sucks. Claiming "the natural must be CONVINCINGLY RULED OUT" is unscientific. That's not how scientists do things. The electron went through 5 major overhauls in like 60 years. Why the hypocrisy?
@@repentantrevenant9776 Pretty sure there is more scientific evidence for suggesting my "narrow Western interpretation" rests on a better foundation of understanding than the Christian perspective. I understand we all have our various worldviews. My opinion is that a worldview based on science and reason is superior to one based on faith and a mix of myth/history.
You write "I'd need to have someone convincingly rule out a natural neurological understanding of these experiences before I could ever begin to think of them as having a supernatural source. "
Why? BTW, despite the massive body of psychedelic research, our understanding how the subjective experience is linked to what is happening in the brain is vastly incomplete, at least for now.
When you had a deep mystical experience, whether spontaneous or induced by some technique or substance, you don't reallly care about its underlying fundamental nature. What counts and is deeply transformative is your experience, and mystical experiences by their very nature leave something open, they don't give you definitive proof. But you don't really need it that much. It is the subjective experience itself, which is so incredibly precious.
@@dasGagaTier "our understanding how the subjective experience is linked to what is happening in the brain is vastly incomplete, at least for now."
I'd go one step further. Subjective consciousness is wholly incompatible with a simple materialism as it's generally defined. We need to change our metaphysics and philosophy to understand consciousness. Science alone can never solve The Hard Problem.
If you’re a Christian, almost all these experiences will be related to Christianity, and thus you’d be looking at the universe through a pin hole. Christianity was created by men, and most of the tenets of Christianity was greatly influenced by the powers of those days. Greek/Roman. For example, son of god originates within Greek folklore.
Ndes are experienced by all humans regardless of religion or lack of religion. The experience is tailored to the experiencer. Christians tend to see Jesus. Muslims or Hindus will have an experience related to their beliefs. The vast majority though, will experience light as the source of all things. Energy seems to be the common denominator. Universal consciousness, which we are all a part of.
The study of quantum physics is beginning to offer answers. The double slit experiment offers clues as well.
Please don’t close your mind and look at everything with Christian glasses as you won’t be getting the entire picture.
Addressing the title: can the theists demonstrate these phenomena are supernatural, or indeed that the supernatural exists? If so, why haven't they? It would change the world!
It is not the job of the skeptic to explain what you experienced. It is your job, as the claimant, to demonstrate your claim.
Demonstrate? That's an interesting choice of words. Even if one could demonstrate the supernatural reality of these experiences, those who have never had one would most likely reject it. Even many Christians think testimonies of such experiences skirt the boundaries of heresy. I don't feel the need to defend spiritual experiences I've had to anyone. Besides, many of these experiences defy the ability to put into words. How would one describe or "demonstrate" the experience of Christ's love? Paul wrote in Eph. 3:17-19, "...I pray that you [Ephesians]...may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the length and width, height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge..." To know with a knowledge that surpasses mere knowledge, or to know with a knowledge that is beyond comprehension, beyond the ability to describe. For me, that's the most mystical statement in the Bible. I'm not taking issue with your question. I'm simply saying that some spiritual experiences are such that there is no way to describe them, certainly not in a way in which you and others might be convinced, let along demonstrate them.
@@GregAlterton Hard to know what to do with a statement like "Knowledge that is beyond comprehension". Seems kind of meaningless or nonsensical. I'm all for accepting that our awareness is limited but apart from accepting that and staying sceptically open, what else can one do? The universe and humans are strange but problems with a mostly hidden God strain my credulity.
What do you mean 'demonstrate'? You mean in a science lab? Then no because angels & demons (which are fallen angels) can not be directly manipulated by humans, we have no innate ability to control them, on the contrary they are higher beings than us, so on the contrary they can control us better than we can control them. Also keep in mind angels & demons are vastly more intelligent than us and being pure spirit they can control under what circumstances they manifest. However if you want this reality demonstrated, then one possible thing you could try is to humbly pray to Christ for your guardian angel to be revealed to you (or something like that). God could help you find the faith you lack if you asked for help. God does answer prayers.
Another way to frame the question is whether Christians and other conservative religious adherents can take such phenomena seriously without labeling it demonic if it doesn't fit in the appropriate box for "God stuff."
As long as your loverboy naturalism is disproved.
Probably not, but as someone who came to Christ in a conservative evangelical Baptist church in college, and now is devouring books on classical western Christian mysticism, anything is possible.
@@zephyr-117sdropzone8 What is "loverboy naturalism?"
@@JohnWMorehead your loverboy, Naturalism.
@@zephyr-117sdropzone8 You aren't making any sense. I'm not a Naturalist. I'll quit while I'm ahead and move on.
one problem is all over the world people of diff religions have the same so called experiences
so what does that tell you.. either its not real or religion has nothing to do with it.. sorry christians..
you are not special...
//one problem is all over the world people of diff religions have the same so called experiences
so what does that tell you.. either its not real or religion has nothing to do with it.. sorry christians..
you are not special...//
What if what you just described above is part of a deception? If I were the devil, I would have my minions mess with everyone's minds, giving people from every religion, and even atheists, so as to completely confuse the issue. Christ not being special is exactly what he wants everyone to believe.
When I used to have a dream in which I felt like a demonic presence was threatening me, I would always recite The Lord's Prayer in my dream until it left. (I would become conscious that I was dreaming because I was scared.) The last time I had a dream like this I called on Papa Legba - because I'm eclectic pagan and He's supposed to be the Guardian of the crossroads between different realms. This worked just as well for me as calling on Jesus. Personally, I believe most deity forms are real and valid. I believe that Jesus is one of these, but I don't believe in Christianity as the one true path.
Spiritual and seemingly spiritual experiences happen to people of all religious beliefs. Christian or non-Christian, there is guidance and help that comes to people from seemingly supernatural sources.
How did you rule out a naturalistic explanation for the effectiveness of your calling on deities ?
if you think about it, if a demonic entity wanted people to be steered away from Jesus being the true God, he WOULD cause "sleep paralysis" in people of all religions, and in atheists, and go away just at the right time, just to throw doubt into the search for the truth. He is evil, he's also VERY deceptive, and he knows how to confuse, and distort. The same would go for any supernatural experience. However, only one religion has at it's center a Savior who told us that God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whosoever believes in him, will have life everlasting. Who said love one another, as I have loved you. Forgive, and be good even to your enemies. Be good to those who persecute you. Take care of the poor, the widows, the orphans. Who said that the one who would be great in God's kingdom is the one who is humble and serves, or actively takes care of, all. Jesus said he came so that we would have life, abundant life. IF we learn about him, believe him, and in him , and follow his instructions.
I had a dream one afternoon when I fell asleep. I had a dream about a cia agent that was talking on the phone to me. I was scared of the cia but then I felt peace
Then I saw two helicopters fly towards a building with no windows or doors. I saw some men in a room somewhere else looking at computer monitors. Then one of the helicopters landed on the building. I heard a voice say “ I’m here to protect you “ and I saw a bodyguard standing behind my house.
I knew he was there 12/7 protecting me and I couldn’t accept it bc I’m not anyone special that I should deserve this kind of protection. Then I saw a warm golden light above my left shoulder. The light was love and the light came down to me and touched me and I instantly felt overwhelming peace and love and comfort. I have never felt anything like it before or since.
I woke up and a few hours later I hear the announcement that Bin Laden was killed
What about Fatima?
I think that was prob more of a wishful thinking experience than anything else, as many ppl there said they saw absolutely nothing.
@@Cori761 Idk, there were accounts of believers and non-believers. But yes some contradictory. If there was something (also it was announced), then this was the most extraordinary event in the 20th century imho.
Can skeptics explain these weird religious experiences?
delusion
noun
1a
something that is falsely or delusively believed or propagated
Mystical experiences aren't rare. About 1/3 the population of the US have had a mystical experience.
Sleep paralysis isn't considered a spiritual experience typically, it's due to waking up while you are still in REM sleep and the brain not fully waking up. At least that's the conventional explanation.
After-death communications are common enough though in the past people didn't talk about them as much out of fear of being called crazy. I have experienced this myself, though it occurred in a dream while I slept.
Zwingli had some surprisingly unspiritual ideas that don't really fit with Paul's experience of Jesus or his explanation of the resurrection. Zwingli tried to argue with Luther at the Marburg Colloquy than the Lord's Supper couldn't be Christ's body and blood, and Luther replied that Christ's body could go through walls and enter the Upper Room, so why couldn't it hide under a piece of bread? Zwingli denied Jesus walked through a door or wall, and said he must have used a secret door!
Truly, I think Zwingli was uncomfortable with something that resisted rational explanation, and I'm not sure most Evangelicals are aware of this absurdity in his thought, that Jesus should have to use a secret door to enter the Upper Room. Luther had contact with the German mysticism of Eckhart and Tauler, and was more comfortable with the concept of a mystery.
Sounds like someone spiked your drink or you were smoking something.
Profit Thinking = Arhiman
Embrace Abundance = Christ Impulse
Philosophy of Freedom
55:50: So if there are all these very real, very evil beings around - the “weird things that mean us harm” - all of which God created or allowed to exist - btw all on an omnipotent, omniscient God’s watch! - how do we know this God you are talking about is benevolent and not some evil demiurge? How can we know if this deity means us good or harm? Frankly I’m so exhausted by this sort of thing. I have seen such mental abuse of people by Christians on this shaky premise of Satan and demons. More cruelty - and dare I say wickedness - in the ‘pray-ers’ than the ‘prayed-for’ imo. Just look at a Pentecostal meeting to see the kind of cruelty going on. Shame on this theologian for defending this stuff. I have suffered abuse as a child and developed bipolar disorder as a young man - for long years Pentecostals and evangelicals decided I was possessed and or oppressed, that I had given satan and demons some foothold in my life - how else to explain mental illness?! - and so i was judged, prayed over like some demoniac or leper. To hell with it. They implied there was a spirit of masturbation or a spirit of rebellion or a spirit of evil art (I’m an artist) or a spirit of my evil forebears or a spirit of monasticism (because I was interested in the Church Fathers) … this needs to stop and you two men should think what harm all this does to people. Call in the exorcist? Why not just push back on unscrupulous pastors and priests?
Sigh… this stuff really is so sad because it is so casually bandied about and real harm is done by people who believe this. I was even persuaded/coerced by “born again Bible believing Christians” into burning my science fiction books, my JRR Tolkien collection, even my own artwork. I was persuaded to end relationships with beautiful people because THEY might be an evil influence or ‘give Satan a foothold’. In my experience Christians themselves are instruments of deep and great harm - you dont need the Devil and his demons to act with great cruelty - just simple narrow mindedness, superstition and unkindness. And these extremes of religious cruelty are ubiquitous.
The sleep paralysis is a medical thing, not a spiritual thing. I don't get why so many ppl seem to take these sleep paralysis experiences as supernatural.
//The sleep paralysis is a medical thing, not a spiritual thing. I don't get why so many ppl seem to take these sleep paralysis experiences as supernatural.//
and you know this for a fact, beyond the shadow of a doubt, how?
Pine creek is right
No, and religious people cant either (but they think they can).
THE GOSPEL
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also
ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
- 1 Corinthians 15: 1-4 KJV
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. - John 15:13 KJV
SAVALATION
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
- John 3:16 KJV
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. John 3:17
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
- John 14:6 KJV
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts 4:12
For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. Romans 5:10
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Ephesians 2:8-9
And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.
- Mark 1:15 KJV
He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
- John 3:36 KJV
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began. 2 Timothy 1:9
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost. Luke 19:10
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:7-8
I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. John 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
- Romans 10:9-11 KJV
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
- Romans 10:13 KJV
this guy is very believable. i'm not doubting his personal experience. altho he kinda lost me at sleep paralysis. i realize "correlation doesn't equal causation" but correlation does at least point us in certain directions more than others. like if the data shows the most common denominator for sleep paralysis is insomnia, then we could conclude its most likely not the direct work of "evil spirits" or whatever. altho, you could still say "but what if the evil spirits are what is causing you to not sleep in the first place". but then thats where you're going to need some empirical evidence. does that make sense?
on the other hand, if you're seriously claiming that people with near death experiences could describe stuff that was going on in another room while they were unconscious and you can provide empirical evidence of that, that would be really interesting. altho there was no empirical claim made.. why?
i don't believe in this stuff. people still want "magic god". but if "magic god" existed then why would we live in a universe with physics in the first place? if magic is is at the core of everything then God could have just as easily created a nonsensical magical universe for us to live in with the same moral parameters, right? so then why physics? personally I think there is a "physical" God. you can still be a theist without believing in magic imo.
"on the other hand, if you're seriously claiming that people with near death experiences could describe stuff that was going on in another room while they were unconscious and you can provide empirical evidence of that, that would be really interesting. altho there was no empirical claim made.. why? "
there are NDE's, documented ones, in which this has happened.
“Chest press”, it is demonic. I’ve had that same thing
The real Jesus never heard before and I have seen him and know exactly what he looks like. It all happened about 30 years ago and while I was sleeping I found myself in a place I've never been before and the sand was golden and the sky was blue and I found myself standing next to Jesus himself while he was talking to three men wearing long brown robes and Jesus was wearing a brilliant white robe with a twined white rope around his waist and wearing very old sandals and his hair was brown in colour and wavy, down to his shoulders with a thin brown beard and Jesus was standing next to a brilliant white flat roof house with one window on the left and the door to the right next to the three men as Jesus was talking to them but in a different language in which I couldn't understand and this happened for ten minutes or longer and then I woke up and remembered everything and still do to this day, and I have to say that Jesus was real as I have seen him.
Does this man not believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus??
Hi, God of the Gaps is calling, unexplained phenomena does not mean ‘God’
Hi, God calling, explained phenomena do not mean 'no God'
Good thing the subject of the interview conceded this in the first 5 minutes
Hi, logic calling, unexplained phenomena does not mean "insert naturalism of the gaps!"
@@zephyr-117sdropzone8 Hi, epistemology calling. The day the supernatural is demonstrated and studied to the same degree and rigor as nature, then we can consider (and test) supernatural hypothesis for the gaps.
@@vanoroce64 also, ironic you got the Mandelbrot Set as your PFP. One of the best evidences for God from math! Truly his fingerprint!
This is one of the problems with the Christian faith. God asks us to participate in our relationship with him so he speaks to us in a personal way. If you discou t personal experiences, you exclude the most important way God comes to us.
Night terrors.
Very interesting that this gentlemen buys into the mystical experiences concept irrelevant of the religious context but isn't convinced of the resurrection of our Lord.
This disqualifies him on every level.
Furthermore, most if not all of this NDE, etc. phenomena can be rationally explained.
So mysticism is not a reliable horse to hitch your wagon to.
Did he include Elvis sightings in his book?
If Jesus was God on earth, why are his teachings so much like 2nd temple Judaism instead of teachings from the creator that are mind blowing?
what do you mean by that?
//If Jesus was God on earth, why are his teachings so much like 2nd temple Judaism instead of teachings from the creator that are mind blowing?//
What do you mean by that?
Well if A logical argument can’t reach you in the same way then perhaps what you’re talking about is wishful thinking
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
@@lark8356 don’t have Facebook…what do you want to discuss?
@@mindymild Hi, Mindy. I like your name. I'm interested in discussion with you about religion in general, including lack of religion. We can connect through email as well, but TH-cam won't let me post my email address here. It's on my TH-cam page, though.
@@lark8356 Ok, but I don’t see your email, I see links to other platforms though.
@@mindymild Try looking at it on a web page in desktop view or on a PC. For some reason, it doesn't show it in the app.
Bit of barrel-scraping, no?
So why do limbs never miraculously regrow? Why are these 'miracles' never obvious? God and the supernatural realm reveals itself in 'spooky' and 'wierd' ways like these but he does't want to make it to easy for us? C'mon.
why don't we ever see life evolving from non-life, why dont we see prokaryotes popping out of volcanic vents or hydrothermal springs?
@@hwd7 because natural selection works against them . 3.5 billion years ago they weren’t competing with highly evolved bacteria 3.5 billion years in the making . The first self replicators evolved in a world void of any life
Now explain why limbs don’t grow back if you pray hard enough
@@tonyatkinson2210 we define life as a biological system that can self replicate, so you contradicted yourself, natural selection cannot occur until you have self replication, so how did particles become, proteins and prokaryotes via chemical evolution?
Salamanders limbs do grow back, so why would we lose such an advantageous system if we shared a common ancestor?
@@hwd7
I have you an answer to your question . You asked why we don’t see life evolving from non life today . . I explained that there is too much competition from existing life . So instead of acknowledging that explanation you replace the question with another , entirely different question.
Compare that with you. I asked a question , and instead of answering it , you again reported it with another question .
Now please answer . Why can’t prayer work on severed limbs ?
@@tonyatkinson2210 You asked, "...Why can’t prayer work on severed limbs ?"
Ok as a thought experiment,
let's say that God did one time decide to spontaneously heal someone's severed limb and it grew back.
I'm sure the evolutionary sceptics would say it was due to an evolutionary mutation from our Salamander ancestors which can grow back limbs and organs.
Or it was stem cells that reactivated or any other natural explanation.
An atheist is 100% biased against any supernatural intervention whatsoever so they will invoke any rescuing device explain the data.
Second, when Yeshua walked Jerusalem 2000 years ago he did heal a man with a withered hand, yet people only followed Him because of the benefits not because they loved Him.
So why should God heal people who are only in it for themselves as if He is just a parlour trick or a bellhop?
Ultimately people who were victims of thalidomide or other disorders will receive a resurrection body that is whole and will never get sick or diseased at the resurrection for everyone that puts their trust in Yeshua.
This is the blessed hope of every Christian.
Part of our Dominion mandate is to overcome the curse, which is why people like Professor James Tour are working on reversing spinal chord injuries and others are working on adult stem cell therapy etc.
But ultimately we are all going to die and receive a resurrection body that will spend eternity in Heaven with those that trust in Yeshua.
I hope you change your mind and make that decision too.
In my mind, the primary problem with supposed supernatural encounters is what I would call *The Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome.*
We all know what that means...
( _except for those who don't_ ).
It comes from a parable
( _NOT a Biblical one_ )
wherein...
------------------ •~• ----------------
*Once upon a time,* a village of shepherds starts to experience wolf attacks on their sheep. So, one of the boys from the village volunteers to take the night watch at the top of the hill, above the meadow where the sheep sleep and graze.
A few hours after the villagers go to sleep, the boy runs through the village crying loudly, *_"WOLF, WOLF!"_*
The villagers all rush out of their houses over to the hill. However, they soon discover that there are no sheep missing and no evidence of a wolf. The boy chuckles to himself while all of the villagers angrily return to their homes for some sleep.
The next night, again...a few hours after the villagers go to sleep, the boy runs through the village crying loudly, *_"WOLF, WOLF!"_*
The villagers all rush out of their houses over to the hill. However, *AGAIN* they discover that there are no sheep missing and no evidence of a wolf. Again, the boy chuckles to himself while all of the villagers angrily return to their homes for some sleep.
The third night, a few hours after the villagers go to sleep, the boy sees a pack of wolves *_Actually attacking the sheep!_* Very quickly, he runs through the village crying as loudly as possible, *_"WOLF, WOLF!"_*
Fed up, the villagers all shouted at him, ,
*"BE QUIET! GO AWAY! STOP LYING!"*
As morning broke, the villagers walked over to the hill, only to discover that with the exception of some scattered bones and some sheep’s wool, there was not even _one living sheep left!_
------------------ •~• ----------------
...and _that_ is the problem! For years...DECADES EVEN...
there have been claims of all sorts of supernatural occurences...such as healings, angels, miracles, etc. However, they all always turn out to either be...
*A)* A fabricated lie...such as the *_aptly_* named, _Alex _*_Malarkey,_* who confessed that his story about angels and Heaven etc. was all a lie. Or...
*B)* Lacking any credible *evidence.* Afterall...we live in the age of *ubiquitous cameras* _...so many cameras_ in fact that it seems *_impossible_* for anything to happen anywhere without *_some_* camera catching a shot of it!
And so, because of this, we end up with
*The Boy Who Cried Wolf Syndrome.* Wherein, we have no credible reason to believe that the miracles are actually happening because if one of the stories actually were true, it would be too difficult to believe due to all of the verifiable lies. As a matter of fact, there is currently an almost *war* between horrid televangelists in Africa, competing with one another by performing magic tricks which they pawn off as true miracles...but they are clearly *_bogus miracles._*
You just cannot make this stuff up!
I believe that God absolutely _can_ perform _any_ miracle that He'd like to, whenever and wherever He chooses...and I believe that He even does _on occasion_ perform miracles great and small.
However, I believe that the overwhelming majority of what we hear and/or witness on TV, radio, internet...or even at cheesy _"miracle" meetings_ put on by _so-called faith healers, apostles and prophets,_ are not genuine miracles, but rather they are the wolves in sheep’s clothing that our Lord warned us would come and invade the church...even the leadership, and deceive many!
_“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."_
*MATTHEW 7:15*
_"I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive."_
*ROMANS 16:17-18*
_"For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds."_
*2 CORINTHIANS 11:13-15*
_"For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."_
*2 TIMOTHY 4:3*
_"And many false prophets will arise and lead many astray. And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold."_
*MATTHEW 24:11-13*
_“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"_
*MATTHEW 7:21-23*
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
@@lark8356
Why not here?
@@mbgrafix Good question. I'm glad you asked. I prefer other methods of asynchronous communication. I can't say the name of it here because TH-cam will delete my post. It's more effective than this platform.
@@lark8356
I very much prefer my conversations to take place in a public forum...and considering the topic, I can think of no better place to discuss this topic. In this way, others can both join in and benefit from the discussion. If this is unacceptable to you, then I must politely decline.
@@mbgrafix I understand. Thank you for your consideration. God bless you.
I experienced love from the goddess Bjishebrbsiak 8986. Therefore it’s true. Bow to her, everyone. Do it now.
Allllll experiences can be explained EASILY in non-dualism! Advaita Vedanta, for example, believes that Consciousness is Primal and The Mind of God is ALL that exists. You, me, the ENTIRE universe is INSIDE God's Mind. So, we are basically God's thoughts. The philosophy is based upon the ancient Upanishads, frin the Indus Valley (Nondual Hinduism). In this philosophy, waking, dreaming, hallucinating, no dreamers sleeping, etc are ALL equally God experiencing God's own thoughts THROUGH the mask of our egos. We are merely dissociated perspectives of God. So, EVERY Consciousness experience is God. So, if you see/dream/imagine an Engel, for example, the angel is no more real than a thought. No stand alone existence. Merely an experience in waves of Consciousness.
no thanks, I'll stick with Jesus, my Savior and Lord, who loved me enough to die in my place.
@@liljade53 yeah, that belief is certainly an option. About as likely to be true as me winning the lottery 7 times in a row, but, stranger things have happened. Enjoy!
How can you even call them religious experiences without the hard evidence that there's a god that exists in reality?
Even if you don't believe in a God, these types of experiences still need explaining.
I think skepticism on a scale has two extremes that are probably illogical, how can I be open to new data without being gullible, how can I accept something without certainty?
Grace and Peace to you. I would be delighted to discuss this with you elsewhere. May I reach you by email, or will you locate me on Facebook Messenger?
@@christiang4497 why does there need to be an explanation for everything? It's pretty difficult to explain a one and done experience
@@danvan2683 that's not illogical
Lets face it, religious people will believe anything. You think jesus was born on Dec 25 th but it was sept. Christians took pagan festival of december for his birthday. They also took easter from pagan festival and harvest festival..