A few of you have pointed out a misreading of the Rapid Ingress and the "Count as moving" rule. Chef was wrong, turns out he's still a few percent human so it does occasionally happen still. Rapid Ingress - This is just an addendum to say you can Deep Strike if you have the rule, not you MUST have the rule. Which begs the question who was seriously saying you can't use Rapid Ingress with Deep Strike, that's where your ire should go 🤣 Overwatch - Still has the "set up" trigger, so that would overule the Commentary. The "Count as moving" would be for things like Mists of Deimos as discussed in the video So yes, continue to Lictor your way across the battlefield and Overwatch hapless Marines that jump out of an Impulsor 😁
Also, you can charge after coming in from reserves with a land raider. After it says you can't charge, it says (unless you have a rule that says otherwise)
RAW deep strike is a rule you use in your reinforcement phase, so using rapid ingress would be an out-of-phase rule meaning you couldn't use deep strike. But yeah, quite obvious it was intended to work with deep strike considering terminators teleport homers xD
With the rules commentary "Embarked Units and Reserves": "... and they cannot declare a charge this turn (unless a rule specifically states otherwise)" To me it seems like they just forgot about drop pods... No, they didn't. Good clarification. Rapid Ingress ftw.
I feel like you've really hit the sweet spot in terms of explaining and commenting enough so people who dont follow the meta can understand what the changes mean and why they were made, without making the video horribly long and tideous to sit through. While my desire to play 40k has dropped off a cliff in 10th edition, i've dabbled a bit in painting the new AoS Flesh Eaters Courts and i'm really hyped for the new kroot.
I was really hyped in the beginning since my tyranids would be getting a bunch of new models. I think alot of the changes are good, like the fewer amounts of stratagems, OC instead of ObjectiveSecure, their attempt to make morale more important, lowering AP. I can accept the removal of the psychic phase even though i feel like ''gun'' psychic powers are a bit boring. I feel like some of the uniqueness of the factions have been hurt(hopefully only temporary untill we get more codexes). Tyranids cant bounce their psychic powers through a chain of synapse creatures, Genestealer Cults dont have their sneaky deployment tricks(although i admit they were annoying and slowed down deployment) and tau dont have their drones. My biggest gripe is the removal of wargear cost, i feel like it makes list building a bit boring. I generally play ''fun'' lists where i take whatever models and guns i feel would be fun to use this time. For example In 9th edition, tau battlesuit weapons got more expensive the more you added to the suit, so yes you could take 3 of the best weapons but it would be very expensive. So you would have to debate if it was worth using this many points on a unit or if it would be better to give it cheaper gear so if they died you didnt lose alot of points. Now a suit costs the same no matter what wargear you give it, so you basicly shoot yourself in the foot if you dont take 3x of the best guns. Some weird things that have confused me: alot of the tyranid success seems to be because our biovores can spawn spore mines who can then capture objectives etc. (And therefor the biovores is very expensive points wise) But i think in 9th spore mines had a rule that said they could not hold objectives nor do actions. Why change it and make us use this weird trick to be competitive. Why does most of the big nid monsters have str9 attacks while a normal dreadnought has str12 and the weird scout invictor suit has str14! It is just a personal take but i prefer my nids to be somewhat dangerous not just be a meatshield to absorb hits while we sit and hold objectives crossing our fingers the enemy cant kill us all and capture the objectives. And while i am not playing competitively, seeing the pretty huge imbalance that some of the factions had at the beginning left me with a taste in my mouth Also it seems melee units have become alot weaker due to the new overwatch being useable in the movement phase not just when a unit is being charged. @@SLG493
@@jeppehansen16 all seems pretty fair. I'm a Tau player myself and it was very jarring at first with the changes to weapons and drones. I find it quite balanced now. Thank you for your response!
rapid ingress: i think you guys might be wrong here, sorry chef. It says you can come in from reserves, and if you have deepstrike, you can set up as if you are deepstriking, comma at start and end of deepstrike section, i dont see that effecting coming in normally from reserves along the table edge which ive seen lots of ppl do. I think this is just a clarification that deepstrike is allowed in rapid ingress
It looks like they were giving the Necron and Admech rules time before they change them, since people are only now getting the hang of both using them and fighting them. Though C’tan should really have gone up in points, and Admech needs wider army rules.
Wow, eyes opened on this. I’ve been playing a lot of these rules as ‘intended’ and didn’t even realize the cheeky min/maxing that these changes had to stop 😂
Regarding the Dark Angels codex, I BELIEVE based on how I've read the warcomm article, the codex will not actually be tournament legal until the standalone version releases sometime in either late February or March (I'd wager March). At which point there will be another MFM update following the codex release. The version coming with the box set is basically just an "early look" essentially.
As someone who likes my RG to infiltrate and redeploy, it was nice to stop arguments and get clarification that redeploying units can still infiltrate!
I think the Forgefiend cost increase (combined with the undivided strat debuff) as well as the Dark Commune cost increases were forgotten here... I kind of wonder what the hell to use in a CSM list at this point, especially for grabbing objectives... Wouldn't have hurt to have reduced the cost of some of the vast amount of currently useless stuff a bit... The CSM's took about as many debuffs as the Drukhari gained buffs, or even more so.
Gotta pay that "Chaos Tax" for the sins of Haines & Chambers... it's only been nearly 21yrs, we probably still have at least a couple more centuries of penance to pay for the 3.5ed codex ;-)
Tau Crisis Battlesuit should just have a wargear rule that stated that you can only have 1 Cyclic Ion Blaster per model(just like they have for the Fragmentation Launcher). 3 models for 200 pts(+20 compared to previously) is massively overcosted if you want some of the other options than Cyclic Ion Blasters.
This 100%, personally I think 10th is great and the balance is generally better than it's been for some time. But stuff like this is frustrating. CIB were the issue not suits. Now my non meta/causal army pays the price.
@@endgame6494 I would say the only other possible reason for increasing the cost would be the amount of wounds for the price. 10 pts per wound is a pretty good price on a Toughness 5 with 4+ Invulnerable save profile with multiple models(chance of overkill/wasted damage). But that only happened if you took Shield Drones and the Shield Generator as wargear options(which to be fair is what everyone does from what I have seen).
CSM got hit hard across nearly every non-Abaddon+Terminator build I see. Even that got the Nurgle strat nerf technically. Even the CSM allies units got hit. The Lord of Skulls cost-reduction kind of feel like an insult :-P Guess I should be happy my second army is Drukhari I suppose.
Kinda overzealous to double-nerf the two best strats like that IMO but I guess they were too strong. Gonna be nice to see what we can come up with for lists now. Maybe Legionaries are back on the menu
@@Cursedsama I struggle seeing Legionaires being remotely useful before the codex comes, due to having few, if any stratagems that really benefit them. I hope that when the book comes, the "Black Legion" detachment get some sort of "dark brotherhood" type of rule that give them some significant bonuses as well as decent strategems.
@@scotiansaint5679 Seems like they are a bit eager in over-correcting with the CSM's, but I would honestly have been fine with all the debuffs if they had bothered in making some of the units that are not at all viable competitively a bit more cost-effective so that actual variation became more of a real option.
@@runeh3022 Yeah BLs thing has always been having good Legionaires I feel like so that would be sick. I was just thinking maybe Chosen are too expensive now so people will either go for Termies instead or go down to Legionaires.
Biologus Putrifier you could use it for free once per game (even if it's been used - remains unchanged) The change was if you had 3x biologus putrifier, you could've used grenade stratagem 4x at once (so normal + all others using it for free)
World Eaters with 2 Daemon Princes are extremely powerful, just in their 4+ Inv save. But now that they are 5+ you can probably kill a unit. Because having a 10 Man Khorne Berserkers unit with MoE, having 4++/6+++ and Everytime a model dies they get D6 movement. Unless you target focus one unit you weren't killing them.
Oh man….nevermind. I guess people are saying you still overwatch since it triggers on setting up as well. So it’s still overwatch city against deep strikers. Oh well. At least the dreadknights got buffed
In terms of Drukhari my be getting the last codex or they were just to bad, i think it's definetly the second one, because everyone was complaining about how horrible Drukhari have been treated in this edition. None of the Drukhari players in my area played them anymore, due to how bad they were, me included, but now i might play them again.
The overwatch strat says it can be triggered after a unit is 'set up' surely that means a unit coming out of a transport can be overwatched via that condition
The only reference that I noticed them talking about not being able to overwatch a unit disembarking was specifically the new stratagem called Nightmare Shroud which explicitly states you cannot fire overwatch at the unit.
Yeah you’re right. So why even make that change if overwatch still applies to reserves deep strike and transports? God I hate overwatch. A lot of the guys in our area do absurd things with flamer units that just feel unfun especially when used in move phase
@@TheGreatArtichoke It is more of a rules clarification than a change. I’m sure people were trying to take advantage of that certain things weren’t written out. Like using the fact that vehicle is dropping of the squad as an excuse to deploy a squad closer to a target than the normally 9” away that was required because it wasn’t written that way. Kind of like the example of the people putting 12 Exalted Eight-bound in a rhino because they weren’t specifically mentioned. Edit - Another example would be someone trying to bring in a land raider full of nasty assault troops, having them disembarking at 6” away from their target and then being able to charge at a much higher chance of the charge being successful than was ever intended. (Could be even worse if they had a way to improve their charge move by x inches)
New Drukhari detachment wooooooo! Breaking out the Inubi again, Lelith makes her unit a complete blender! Let's go evil space elves, its time to play everything again!
Boy am I ever glad I just finished painting my Accurseds and Dark Commune on Sunday. Hooray. 😭 Still waiting on that points reduction for Helbrutes to be useful again...
So with regards to the World Eater Daemon Prince invul-aura being made worse, there was a slightly meme-y list with a few foot Daemon Princes and 120 Jakhals rocking up with that 4+ invul and 5+ FnP (with the improved FnP blessing) which did put up some results in tournaments.
Astra Militarum have regularly been going undefeated, and every list that was doing it was running triple Manticore. LVO saw one make it to either the Shadow Round or top 8 (I forget) and last weekend saw 2 guard lists go undefeated. Guard in terms of win rate? Not doing too hot. Guard in terms of tournament position? Doing pretty well.
I really feel Chefs pain on the topic of stacking buffs or nerfs all at once. I'm forever ranting to my friends about how GW always do this. Either change the rules or the points not both. I would love them to do small changes but they can't seem to leave things alone. It was the same with the tyrannofex they nerfed its rule which I think was an OK change but then slapped 50 points on it as well, then they have taken the points back off for this dataslate proving they didn't need to do both
There are weird point comparisons in behind. For example, CSM Forgefiend 200pts vs Thousand Sons Forgefiend 135pts. Yes, csm fiend hits much harder with the dark pacts, and their optional strats, but do you think that validates 65pts? Is the csm version THAT much better? CSM Chaos Lord and CSM Temi-Lord are now equally 95pts. Does this sounds weird only to me?
Nah i agree, very weird with the Lords. I feel same unit should feel differently in different armies, and i am not against different points, but one costing 2/3 of another is ALOT
Yes, thousand sons forgefiend is more than 65pts weaker. It basically gets nothing from the army special rule AND the detachment special rule. CSM one gets to have sustained or lethal hits on 5+ with the fitting mark or sustained/lethal on 6+ and free rerolls of 1. It cannot be made invincible in a lang range duel like the csm one. It does not have the same datasheet ability for devastating wounds. It cannot be buffed by abbadon because that one is CSM only. Thousand Sons don't even have an effin warpsmith to support the forgefiend.
Looks like infiltrators can finally be redeployed as infiltrators. Always irked me that the consensus seemed to be that. Redeploying my sneaky boys mean they had to retreat into either reserves or my deployment zone. This could make for fun alpha strike opportunities with Vanguard Spearhead and Phobos Marines.
Oh man... I was really hoping the delay was because they realized how crummy the new Dark Angels book was, and they decided to make emergency fixes like they did with Votann previously. Or even to react to LVO results! But Necrons weren't even mentioned. Big missed opportunity.
The DA leaked nerfs don't officially count until the codex is released by itself soooooo hopefully it'll be revised before that happens in a couple months.
To me, drukari pain tokens should be more of a resource management game. Like the faction rule gives pain tokens and gives army bonuses based on the number of pain tokens you have, and the detachment should give ways to get immediate bonuses to a unit. That would make them more interesting to me
As a drukari player can't wait to try the new attachment I see very good potential this new attachment and the new stratagem are really good need more testing with it
I'm very surprised they did nothing to not change the Black Templars with the "No Librbarin rule". Currently RAW if you pick the Rightous Crusaders Detachment you can't take psykers HOWEVER if you choose any of the standard SM codex Detachments you can BT-Libraian for days alongside Helbrecht and Grimaldus in, say, and Ironstorm Spearhead. It's clerarly an exalted-eightbound move and was used by VT in a GT I believe, so I'm just surprised they didn't clamp down on it in this dataslate.
CSM got nerfed to the Oblivion - HORRENDOUS point changes, serious nerfs to strats, previously killing cheap deamon allies - wow - they don’t playtest for shit.
*Laughs in Daemon Engine list* I am nearly unaffected other than the nerf to the AC/DC block. Just finished painting my Accurseds and Dark Commune on Sunday. 😭
The Tau Crisis suits weapons discussion made me chuckle. Reminds me of Battletech. You could run the standard Mech variant where you have weapons for different ranges/targets, because war shifts and flows and you need tools for the job. Or you just do what most people do and take the variant that has the most powerful guns that nuke everyone at range, discarding the short range weapons.
It was interesting watching this review back-to-back with the Art of War guy's coverage of the update. It's clear this balance data slate was highly tailored for competative play, because the AoW guys were happy with the majority of the changes. I think TTT's reaction is a better indication of how the changes impact the more casual player. Well, I guess they're all in agreement that Thousand Sons, AdMech, and Necrons should have had some changes made to them. Regardless, GW may have balanced the meta builds, but there is still a lot of imbalance in anything short of the meta builds.
People in this comments section have obviously never played any previous edition. This is the best it's been. In every way, literally every way. Balance, fluff, attention, engagement, and literally knowing that if a model you love sucks it's not a 5 year cycle to have it potentially be playable. I suspect there is no state the game could be in that would please people in these comments. If updates are frequent, not frequent enough to big and to small at the same time then they were probably a pretty good outcome.
I don't know man. Balancing in games with the aim to make it competitive always seems to make it less fun. I hate that so many game companies are so focused on that aspect of their game. All we seem to end up with is wordy rules that over time do less and less impactful, minor things. Armies lose character by being hyperrocused on a balance that never materializes. Because the imbalance usually occurs around the impactful rules that give armies their specific character. Also I think true balance begins in army composition, but somehow GW won't touch that with a ten feet pole instead just tweaking their extremely wordy army rules to do less and less. Its a weird approach.
Yeah it does. In the commentary it spells out that the damage characteristic is one of the things that can't be modified if you have a rule that says the model/unit can ignore modifiers to it's characteristics
@@AseloreIt does and absolutely should so something can handle C'tan Mortarion one-shooting Nightbringers makes me happy and I'm not even a Death Guard player.
Massive nostalgia aside: Lawrence hit the nail on the head with the comment that part of TOW’s attraction will be the much slower update cycle. I don’t play 40k that much but it feels like the rules change each time I sit down to play (Which I don’t criticise to much, they need to given the competitive focus), which I do find exhausting :(
I play my Blood Angels with the stormlance detachment. I like the mobility. But the ability to hit hard on the charge is interesting. I'll give it a spin.
Yeah army building is really bad with them at the min the internal balance needs work. Not only that but they have made them actively worse by preventing them from taking the changing and the blue scribes
As an eldar player the only thing that feels really bad is phantasm being d6'. You pay one CP and still not guaranteed to get value out of it. The rest are logical.
@@DiceandGlory the thing is most eldar units become trading pieces without it, and they probably won't trade up. My main issue since I don't play very competitive lists is that this nerf doesn't account for some aspect warriors who were weaker before and now have been nerfed further because of the phantasm changes without compensation.
Sad to see that you brushed over Guard points so quick, the points change to Guard or better said the lack there of is a huge Problem, While many other Armys got big point drops, Guard which is overcosted almost across the Board, did only get a point increase on one Unit. Also no Rule change to their bad Detachment. It look to me as GW simply overlooked some Factions, either by accident or incompetance is hard to say.
Man this really feels like they did nothing for knights. The 3/4 build might be able to squeeze in an extra armiger. The 2/7 will probably only manage like an assassin or something. Its just... really underwhelming. No good rule buffs. And stratagem nerfs. Its rough
The Transport Keyword is SO fucking annoying! Everytime Chaos players are doing well and starting to have fun GW has to smack us down for not playing their beloved loyalist marines.
It’s ridiculous. You can’t even choose to not give a transport a mark. I used to have chosen with MOp mark of slaanesh, 5 mark of nurgke havocs in a nurgle rhino. Was fluffy and strong and made list building unique and fun. Now if I want slaanesh troops in it I’ll have to make do with exploding attacks in close combat with my rhino instead of shots. Sounds fluffy and fun…. Yea right.
They have truly nerfed CSM. I can get the price increases but to overly nerf the strats, destroy the accursed cultist combo, and hammer everything else, while not bringing down the points of anything else is a slap in the face. They have really hurt the fun in list building as well with the mark nerf as well. I can’t put a unit of chosen or legionaries with havocs unless in a transport unless they all have the exact same mark. What’s joke.
Why does GW hate Thousand Sons? Correct me if I'm wrong but how can you justify Rubrics staying at 105pts. All they can do is shoot. You don't really want them on the objective because they can defend themselves because their not survivable have T4, 3+Sv, and 5+Inv.
FWIW it doesn't seem like Drukhari are overtuned based on my 2 games with the new detachment (anecdotal I know). Incubi and wyches are better at trades now, but they aren't quite what they were in 9th (at least not without character support). They are still T3 1W bodies after all
Everything I've seen and tested so far suggests Drukhari are actually still bad. The new detachment is very fun but there's simply not enough durability, not enough pain tokens, and not enough CP to win many games with it. You run out of resources and everything dies. Realspace Raid with 6 Talos, 3 Ravagers, and maybe one unit of Incubi and an Archon is probably the way to go
@@AllThingsCubey yeah we'll see, I think it's too early to have figured out the best builds for the detachment. I haven't seen people running Talos with it yet, but I still think they probably should be there, as they are the only thing that is even somewhat durable, and are efficient with pain tokens once they kill something. Plus AP-3 D3 melee is nice and something we don't have anywhere else
Just the idea that it's 20 pages of rules and errata in an edition that was touted as "simple" wasn't it? That they were simplifying everything to make it easier and it sounds like it's never been more complicated.
I think you’re overvaluing the drukhari stuff. Without fixing core problems of the faction, the detachment is a bandage. It doesn’t even work properly because the faction is starved for pain tokens and cp, while the detachment wants you to spend a tremendous amount of both
No points reduction for CSM are very disappointing. We need it for Heldrake, Helbrute and perhaps for the Land Raider to make them more competitive. A basic CSM Lord is now the same points as a SM Captian in terminator armour?! GW must've been on crack as the massive points reduction (245 - 190) for a bloody Tyrannofex is absolutely insulting.
Can’t wait to get my third iteration of the Dark Angels points costs and finally run my Deathwing Terminators army as they were always intended to be. A horde.
So chef, the absolutely can make more frequent changes if they make the rules a living document. True, releasing patches every day or week probably not a great idea, but monthly, certainly; in advance of major tournaments - definitely
I've been playing Drukhari, and from what I've seen, you must be a really expert player to use them effectively. Till now, they were a shooting mobile army (semihorde), wich lost all the match ups with other similar shooting or shooting mobile armies. Tau, better shooting with moving, AstraMilit better shoot etc. I know these buff+buff+point redo seems much, but think also about that these new Detach seems very CP hungry and with fewer Pain token, the base for the Drukhari offense. But still vehicles are glass, infantry as well. In a not dense of cover table, drukhari armies just don't stay on the field. I don't know if this detach is so op like you fear, at least gives option to use the entire range of models... a range which is not fully supported... :((((
It's not OP. Incubi and wyches can actually kill stuff now, that's essentially what this change means. Other than that, the army basically plays the same
Yeah their suggestions about "57% winrate" are a joke. Drukhari will be lucky to make 48% with this I reckon. The new detachment is very fun but it runs out of pain tokens and CP very fast and then basically doesn't work
@@alessandropatria1027 Also any smart opponent will just blow up your transports with extreme haste, especially the Raiders, making you unable to get your buffs.
@@AllThingsCubey yeah, basically the bullseye priority for the opponent is moved from the Ravager to the raiders and venoms. Which blow up even easier the the Ravs, so...
Lawrences reaction to the Drukhari updates showcases my biggest issue with modern 40k. Give players their rules and let them get excited about ARMIES and MODELS! GW is so focused on releasing and then trying to fix a new edition every few years it loses so much potential with player excitement and model purchases. I would argue that the TT team could sit for a few weeks and they would be able to write a solid set of detachment rules for every faction in the game. GW takes years to release codex's which consist of 90% fluff that very few care about. Stop dragging your feet GW and taking two years to release codex's. Smash out the codex rules, provide them for free and then players will buy more models, start new armies and GW's sales would go nuts. Let us spend $100 on new models over a codex purchase. Free rules = money for models and easier access for new players to then BUY MORE MODELS!
My pure Nurgle daemons have gone done in some points, up in others, overall I can do..... nothing different. The fact that the cheapest thing I can do is buy a Nurgling base, means small points changes have almost no effect.
My fluff chaos space marines have taken a hit sadly Out of my 6 renegade chaos space marine Armies Red corsairs , scourged and my purge came out great no issues My crimson slaughter and flawless host suffered My Brazen beasts were hit hard
I simply do not know if I can or even want to keep up with the frequent changes 40k goes through. I feel like taking a long break and focusing on The Old World.
BA needed a bit more than just +2 strength. Melee is not a lot of fun at the moment and you still need to make the charge, weather overwatch and risk getting hit back, so it’d be fair to actually dent something enough so that the whole ordeal of getting there wasn’t wasted! 😅 Those enhancements in SoS are almost worthless, it’s a bit nutty.
Charging gives you fight first, so both units fight in the Fights First sub phase. In that sub phase, you alternate selecting eligible units starting with the person who isn't talking their turn, so the enemy unit that was charged would have the first opportunity to fight.
edit: Completely agree on the lack of points granularity for certain units that essentially "kill" running anything other than the most cutting-edge-meta-dumpster-cookie-cutter-end-all-be-all loadouts. Bring back points for certain units (i.e. mostly Elites and Heavy Support), keep wargear free for Battlelines/"tech pieces" units (i.e. action monkey/infiltrators/scouts/etc). And if that gives me enough points back for another enhancement or another small "tech piece", even better! edit2: Re. pinned comment, I thought Chef's title was "Overlord"... Did Szarekh finally succeed in his quest? ---------------------------------------------------------------------- You can Rapid Ingress units that are in Strategic Reserves. Strategic Reserves units are technically Reserve units. The errata in the Rules Commentary only adds the caveat that, if your unit has the Deep Strike ability, you can Rapid Ingress them via Deep Strike even though it is not your Movement Phase. As it is technically your opponent's Movement Phase and not yours, a player would not be able to use the Deep Strike rule while Rapid Ingressing, as you're now under the "out-of-phase" rule ("as if it were the Reinforcements step of your Movement phase") because of the use of Rapid Ingress, which would prevent your from using any other rules that can be used in said phase, like Deep Strike.
Not sure if you touched upon the Chaos Daemons "Daemonic Pact" change where you need to run more Battleline units of Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle or Slaneesh units than Non-Battleline units of those keywords. I might've missed it since I skipped through the vid here and there but what are your thoughts on this? I find it very unnecessary and frankly, annoying. I'm assuming it fixes something that was being abused but here I am feeling forced to run horrors if I wanna run one of my favorite models in the game, the Lord of Change alongside my Thousand Sons...
Exactly why it was done. Comp players abused the rule, especially when it came to units like Blue Scribes and Changeling. The other option was to increase the cost of the Daemons index wide and that only hurts Daemons players. Sure, BS and Nurglings went up but Changeling and Flamers went down, 2 units that were also abused. Other Chaos armies SHOULD have to pay a tax to take Daemon CHARACTER models. Word Bearers aren't just going to summon the Changeling by it's lonesome. The change to allies gave GW a reason to lower the cost of most of the Daemons making pure Daemon armies better now
Niche one, but the Tyranid Lictor's ability allows it to use the rapid ingress strat for 0cp. It doesn't have deep strike. So the ability can't be used anymore.
Part of the reason drukhari probably got a detachment is that the fans literally hated it both from a game play and fundamental reasons. Drukhari fans get very angry when you try to force the three prongs as one get along army. It needed to change and im betting they heard and listened. Its not just that it was bad its that it was infuriating the fanbase.
I suspect that a lot of Eldar players are gonna pivot to Ynnari builds. The Drukhari getting cheaper is a boon and you can’t use strands of fate on them anyway so who cares that you have fewer dice.
I was running a Drukhari heavy Ynnari build *before* the dataslate and loved it. I got a best Aeldari prize at a small GT and my list has barely changed. I literally modified it to include a Wraithlord for a bit more fate dice generation, and tweaked the Drukhari half, but it's functionally the same list, which makes me happy because I was having a lot of fun with it. Sure the Yncarne is nerfed and the Avatar of Khaine is a much better beatstick unit, but there are still techs with the Yncarne that are nasty to deal with, and my list is based on speed. The Avatar of Khaine sorta requires a Farseer to give it -1 to wound each turn to be truly nasty.
A few of you have pointed out a misreading of the Rapid Ingress and the "Count as moving" rule. Chef was wrong, turns out he's still a few percent human so it does occasionally happen still.
Rapid Ingress - This is just an addendum to say you can Deep Strike if you have the rule, not you MUST have the rule.
Which begs the question who was seriously saying you can't use Rapid Ingress with Deep Strike, that's where your ire should go 🤣
Overwatch - Still has the "set up" trigger, so that would overule the Commentary. The "Count as moving" would be for things like Mists of Deimos as discussed in the video
So yes, continue to Lictor your way across the battlefield and Overwatch hapless Marines that jump out of an Impulsor 😁
Also, you can charge after coming in from reserves with a land raider. After it says you can't charge, it says (unless you have a rule that says otherwise)
There’s definitely a lot to take in, so overlooking stuff happens. Excited to see what you have to say overall!
RAW deep strike is a rule you use in your reinforcement phase, so using rapid ingress would be an out-of-phase rule meaning you couldn't use deep strike. But yeah, quite obvious it was intended to work with deep strike considering terminators teleport homers xD
Wait, people didn't use them as regular deep striking... That's like the label on the bottle of bleach saying Do not drink!
With the rules commentary "Embarked Units and Reserves":
"... and they cannot declare a charge this turn (unless a rule specifically states otherwise)"
To me it seems like they just forgot about drop pods... No, they didn't. Good clarification. Rapid Ingress ftw.
I feel like you've really hit the sweet spot in terms of explaining and commenting enough so people who dont follow the meta can understand what the changes mean and why they were made, without making the video horribly long and tideous to sit through.
While my desire to play 40k has dropped off a cliff in 10th edition, i've dabbled a bit in painting the new AoS Flesh Eaters Courts and i'm really hyped for the new kroot.
10th has absolutely killed 40k for me
AoS is pretty fun right now. Lets hope the 4th edition this summer isnt as bad as 10th edition 40k :D
As someone that quite likes 10th can I ask what about it makes you want to play it less? Genuinely curious :)
I was really hyped in the beginning since my tyranids would be getting a bunch of new models.
I think alot of the changes are good, like the fewer amounts of stratagems, OC instead of ObjectiveSecure, their attempt to make morale more important, lowering AP.
I can accept the removal of the psychic phase even though i feel like ''gun'' psychic powers are a bit boring.
I feel like some of the uniqueness of the factions have been hurt(hopefully only temporary untill we get more codexes). Tyranids cant bounce their psychic powers through a chain of synapse creatures, Genestealer Cults dont have their sneaky deployment tricks(although i admit they were annoying and slowed down deployment) and tau dont have their drones.
My biggest gripe is the removal of wargear cost, i feel like it makes list building a bit boring. I generally play ''fun'' lists where i take whatever models and guns i feel would be fun to use this time.
For example In 9th edition, tau battlesuit weapons got more expensive the more you added to the suit, so yes you could take 3 of the best weapons but it would be very expensive.
So you would have to debate if it was worth using this many points on a unit or if it would be better to give it cheaper gear so if they died you didnt lose alot of points. Now a suit costs the same no matter what wargear you give it, so you basicly shoot yourself in the foot if you dont take 3x of the best guns.
Some weird things that have confused me: alot of the tyranid success seems to be because our biovores can spawn spore mines who can then capture objectives etc.
(And therefor the biovores is very expensive points wise) But i think in 9th spore mines had a rule that said they could not hold objectives nor do actions.
Why change it and make us use this weird trick to be competitive. Why does most of the big nid monsters have str9 attacks while a normal dreadnought has str12 and the weird scout invictor suit has str14!
It is just a personal take but i prefer my nids to be somewhat dangerous not just be a meatshield to absorb hits while we sit and hold objectives crossing our fingers the enemy cant kill us all and capture the objectives.
And while i am not playing competitively, seeing the pretty huge imbalance that some of the factions had at the beginning left me with a taste in my mouth
Also it seems melee units have become alot weaker due to the new overwatch being useable in the movement phase not just when a unit is being charged.
@@SLG493
@@jeppehansen16 all seems pretty fair. I'm a Tau player myself and it was very jarring at first with the changes to weapons and drones. I find it quite balanced now. Thank you for your response!
rapid ingress: i think you guys might be wrong here, sorry chef. It says you can come in from reserves, and if you have deepstrike, you can set up as if you are deepstriking, comma at start and end of deepstrike section, i dont see that effecting coming in normally from reserves along the table edge which ive seen lots of ppl do. I think this is just a clarification that deepstrike is allowed in rapid ingress
That’s correct. Going off what Chef said, the Lictor’s Pheromone Trial ability can’t be used because it doesn’t have Deep Strike…
I read the new Rapid Ingress rules, as just a clarification that you CAN deep strike as normal
Thats how Auspex tactics reported it aswell.
Seems like Admech got forgotten about in a record time
It looks like they were giving the Necron and Admech rules time before they change them, since people are only now getting the hang of both using them and fighting them. Though C’tan should really have gone up in points, and Admech needs wider army rules.
Wow, eyes opened on this. I’ve been playing a lot of these rules as ‘intended’ and didn’t even realize the cheeky min/maxing that these changes had to stop 😂
As a Drukhari player I am so SO goddamn happy.
Regarding the Dark Angels codex, I BELIEVE based on how I've read the warcomm article, the codex will not actually be tournament legal until the standalone version releases sometime in either late February or March (I'd wager March). At which point there will be another MFM update following the codex release. The version coming with the box set is basically just an "early look" essentially.
As someone who likes my RG to infiltrate and redeploy, it was nice to stop arguments and get clarification that redeploying units can still infiltrate!
I think the Forgefiend cost increase (combined with the undivided strat debuff) as well as the Dark Commune cost increases were forgotten here... I kind of wonder what the hell to use in a CSM list at this point, especially for grabbing objectives... Wouldn't have hurt to have reduced the cost of some of the vast amount of currently useless stuff a bit... The CSM's took about as many debuffs as the Drukhari gained buffs, or even more so.
Infernal Rites (Chaos version of Armor of Contempt) is still 2cp. WHY?
Gotta pay that "Chaos Tax" for the sins of Haines & Chambers... it's only been nearly 21yrs, we probably still have at least a couple more centuries of penance to pay for the 3.5ed codex ;-)
Tau Crisis Battlesuit should just have a wargear rule that stated that you can only have 1 Cyclic Ion Blaster per model(just like they have for the Fragmentation Launcher).
3 models for 200 pts(+20 compared to previously) is massively overcosted if you want some of the other options than Cyclic Ion Blasters.
This 100%, personally I think 10th is great and the balance is generally better than it's been for some time. But stuff like this is frustrating. CIB were the issue not suits. Now my non meta/causal army pays the price.
@@endgame6494 I would say the only other possible reason for increasing the cost would be the amount of wounds for the price.
10 pts per wound is a pretty good price on a Toughness 5 with 4+ Invulnerable save profile with multiple models(chance of overkill/wasted damage).
But that only happened if you took Shield Drones and the Shield Generator as wargear options(which to be fair is what everyone does from what I have seen).
CSM got hit hard across nearly every non-Abaddon+Terminator build I see. Even that got the Nurgle strat nerf technically. Even the CSM allies units got hit. The Lord of Skulls cost-reduction kind of feel like an insult :-P Guess I should be happy my second army is Drukhari I suppose.
Kinda overzealous to double-nerf the two best strats like that IMO but I guess they were too strong. Gonna be nice to see what we can come up with for lists now. Maybe Legionaries are back on the menu
gw never lets them stay strong for too long. We be been playing them for so long and they always get burnt.
Thanks GW…
@@Cursedsama I struggle seeing Legionaires being remotely useful before the codex comes, due to having few, if any stratagems that really benefit them. I hope that when the book comes, the "Black Legion" detachment get some sort of "dark brotherhood" type of rule that give them some significant bonuses as well as decent strategems.
@@scotiansaint5679 Seems like they are a bit eager in over-correcting with the CSM's, but I would honestly have been fine with all the debuffs if they had bothered in making some of the units that are not at all viable competitively a bit more cost-effective so that actual variation became more of a real option.
@@runeh3022 Yeah BLs thing has always been having good Legionaires I feel like so that would be sick. I was just thinking maybe Chosen are too expensive now so people will either go for Termies instead or go down to Legionaires.
Biologus Putrifier you could use it for free once per game (even if it's been used - remains unchanged)
The change was if you had 3x biologus putrifier, you could've used grenade stratagem 4x at once (so normal + all others using it for free)
Another big one is that rules that ignore modifiers ignore ap and damage modifiers. So you do full damage to ctan and stuff
World Eaters with 2 Daemon Princes are extremely powerful, just in their 4+ Inv save. But now that they are 5+ you can probably kill a unit. Because having a 10 Man Khorne Berserkers unit with MoE, having 4++/6+++ and Everytime a model dies they get D6 movement. Unless you target focus one unit you weren't killing them.
That change to overwatch against deep strike just changed everything for my grey knights! I’m so incredibly happy with this!
Oh man….nevermind. I guess people are saying you still overwatch since it triggers on setting up as well. So it’s still overwatch city against deep strikers. Oh well. At least the dreadknights got buffed
It’s a good day to be a drukhari player!
25:38 Lawrence almost went cross-eyed then 😂😂😂
In terms of Drukhari my be getting the last codex or they were just to bad, i think it's definetly the second one, because everyone was complaining about how horrible Drukhari have been treated in this edition. None of the Drukhari players in my area played them anymore, due to how bad they were, me included, but now i might play them again.
The overwatch strat says it can be triggered after a unit is 'set up' surely that means a unit coming out of a transport can be overwatched via that condition
The only reference that I noticed them talking about not being able to overwatch a unit disembarking was specifically the new stratagem called Nightmare Shroud which explicitly states you cannot fire overwatch at the unit.
Yeah you’re right. So why even make that change if overwatch still applies to reserves deep strike and transports? God I hate overwatch. A lot of the guys in our area do absurd things with flamer units that just feel unfun especially when used in move phase
@@TheGreatArtichoke It is more of a rules clarification than a change. I’m sure people were trying to take advantage of that certain things weren’t written out. Like using the fact that vehicle is dropping of the squad as an excuse to deploy a squad closer to a target than the normally 9” away that was required because it wasn’t written that way. Kind of like the example of the people putting 12 Exalted Eight-bound in a rhino because they weren’t specifically mentioned.
Edit - Another example would be someone trying to bring in a land raider full of nasty assault troops, having them disembarking at 6” away from their target and then being able to charge at a much higher chance of the charge being successful than was ever intended. (Could be even worse if they had a way to improve their charge move by x inches)
Scarab Occult Terminators not getting dropped by 5/10 pts was a HUGE miss IMO
New Drukhari detachment wooooooo! Breaking out the Inubi again, Lelith makes her unit a complete blender! Let's go evil space elves, its time to play everything again!
Boy am I ever glad I just finished painting my Accurseds and Dark Commune on Sunday. Hooray. 😭 Still waiting on that points reduction for Helbrutes to be useful again...
Good learning lesson. Don't show up late to the party anymore. Units that are busted will get nerfed. Did this surprise you?
So with regards to the World Eater Daemon Prince invul-aura being made worse, there was a slightly meme-y list with a few foot Daemon Princes and 120 Jakhals rocking up with that 4+ invul and 5+ FnP (with the improved FnP blessing) which did put up some results in tournaments.
Astra Militarum have regularly been going undefeated, and every list that was doing it was running triple Manticore. LVO saw one make it to either the Shadow Round or top 8 (I forget) and last weekend saw 2 guard lists go undefeated. Guard in terms of win rate? Not doing too hot. Guard in terms of tournament position? Doing pretty well.
lot's of bad Astra Players, similiar to Space Marines. Their overall winrates is always depressed.
You guys beat @AuspexTactics to this, good job
I really feel Chefs pain on the topic of stacking buffs or nerfs all at once. I'm forever ranting to my friends about how GW always do this. Either change the rules or the points not both. I would love them to do small changes but they can't seem to leave things alone. It was the same with the tyrannofex they nerfed its rule which I think was an OK change but then slapped 50 points on it as well, then they have taken the points back off for this dataslate proving they didn't need to do both
There are weird point comparisons in behind.
For example, CSM Forgefiend 200pts vs Thousand Sons Forgefiend 135pts.
Yes, csm fiend hits much harder with the dark pacts, and their optional strats, but do you think that validates 65pts? Is the csm version THAT much better?
CSM Chaos Lord and CSM Temi-Lord are now equally 95pts. Does this sounds weird only to me?
Nah i agree, very weird with the Lords. I feel same unit should feel differently in different armies, and i am not against different points, but one costing 2/3 of another is ALOT
Yes, thousand sons forgefiend is more than 65pts weaker.
It basically gets nothing from the army special rule AND the detachment special rule.
CSM one gets to have sustained or lethal hits on 5+ with the fitting mark or sustained/lethal on 6+ and free rerolls of 1.
It cannot be made invincible in a lang range duel like the csm one.
It does not have the same datasheet ability for devastating wounds.
It cannot be buffed by abbadon because that one is CSM only.
Thousand Sons don't even have an effin warpsmith to support the forgefiend.
CSM is worth 100 pts more than our rubbish
Yes the csm one is 65 points better, thats not even a question dude lmao.
Looks like infiltrators can finally be redeployed as infiltrators. Always irked me that the consensus seemed to be that. Redeploying my sneaky boys mean they had to retreat into either reserves or my deployment zone. This could make for fun alpha strike opportunities with Vanguard Spearhead and Phobos Marines.
Oh man... I was really hoping the delay was because they realized how crummy the new Dark Angels book was, and they decided to make emergency fixes like they did with Votann previously. Or even to react to LVO results! But Necrons weren't even mentioned. Big missed opportunity.
The DA leaked nerfs don't officially count until the codex is released by itself soooooo hopefully it'll be revised before that happens in a couple months.
To me, drukari pain tokens should be more of a resource management game. Like the faction rule gives pain tokens and gives army bonuses based on the number of pain tokens you have, and the detachment should give ways to get immediate bonuses to a unit. That would make them more interesting to me
Much appreciated run-through
As a drukari player can't wait to try the new attachment I see very good potential this new attachment and the new stratagem are really good need more testing with it
I'm very surprised they did nothing to not change the Black Templars with the "No Librbarin rule". Currently RAW if you pick the Rightous Crusaders Detachment you can't take psykers HOWEVER if you choose any of the standard SM codex Detachments you can BT-Libraian for days alongside Helbrecht and Grimaldus in, say, and Ironstorm Spearhead.
It's clerarly an exalted-eightbound move and was used by VT in a GT I believe, so I'm just surprised they didn't clamp down on it in this dataslate.
it's also very nice in blobs of crusaders for a 4++ or sword brethren for the same.
CSM got nerfed to the Oblivion - HORRENDOUS point changes, serious nerfs to strats, previously killing cheap deamon allies - wow - they don’t playtest for shit.
*Laughs in Daemon Engine list* I am nearly unaffected other than the nerf to the AC/DC block. Just finished painting my Accurseds and Dark Commune on Sunday. 😭
The Tau Crisis suits weapons discussion made me chuckle.
Reminds me of Battletech.
You could run the standard Mech variant where you have weapons for different ranges/targets, because war shifts and flows and you need tools for the job.
Or you just do what most people do and take the variant that has the most powerful guns that nuke everyone at range, discarding the short range weapons.
1:12:00 totally agree. our group is still playing Tempest based on nachmund ruleset. Tempest is the bestest
It was interesting watching this review back-to-back with the Art of War guy's coverage of the update. It's clear this balance data slate was highly tailored for competative play, because the AoW guys were happy with the majority of the changes. I think TTT's reaction is a better indication of how the changes impact the more casual player. Well, I guess they're all in agreement that Thousand Sons, AdMech, and Necrons should have had some changes made to them. Regardless, GW may have balanced the meta builds, but there is still a lot of imbalance in anything short of the meta builds.
People in this comments section have obviously never played any previous edition. This is the best it's been. In every way, literally every way.
Balance, fluff, attention, engagement, and literally knowing that if a model you love sucks it's not a 5 year cycle to have it potentially be playable. I suspect there is no state the game could be in that would please people in these comments.
If updates are frequent, not frequent enough to big and to small at the same time then they were probably a pretty good outcome.
Custodes are back baby!
The demon prince nerf was based on one specific list that spammed jakhals to the max and flooded the board with 4++, 5+++ bodies.
The change with the arrows has been so useful as a person who is colourblind
+1 for first positive comment in this cesspool of a comments section 🎉
I don't know man. Balancing in games with the aim to make it competitive always seems to make it less fun. I hate that so many game companies are so focused on that aspect of their game.
All we seem to end up with is wordy rules that over time do less and less impactful, minor things. Armies lose character by being hyperrocused on a balance that never materializes. Because the imbalance usually occurs around the impactful rules that give armies their specific character.
Also I think true balance begins in army composition, but somehow GW won't touch that with a ten feet pole instead just tweaking their extremely wordy army rules to do less and less. Its a weird approach.
Great video guys. Really appreciate your insight.
does ignore characteristiscs ignore halving dmg now?
Yeah it does. In the commentary it spells out that the damage characteristic is one of the things that can't be modified if you have a rule that says the model/unit can ignore modifiers to it's characteristics
Yes it does! And ignore other things like Armour of Contempt being used on something your shooting. Big buff
@@AseloreIt does and absolutely should so something can handle C'tan
Mortarion one-shooting Nightbringers makes me happy and I'm not even a Death Guard player.
Even bigger update for Grey Knights is models can be revived offboard, making their terminator units that much better
Massive nostalgia aside: Lawrence hit the nail on the head with the comment that part of TOW’s attraction will be the much slower update cycle. I don’t play 40k that much but it feels like the rules change each time I sit down to play (Which I don’t criticise to much, they need to given the competitive focus), which I do find exhausting :(
I play my Blood Angels with the stormlance detachment. I like the mobility. But the ability to hit hard on the charge is interesting. I'll give it a spin.
The messed up part of the codices is that the Codex actually says to refer to the MFM for most up to date points.
I'd like to have seen any kind of update to TS, it feels like GW just forgot to look at them
Yeah army building is really bad with them at the min the internal balance needs work. Not only that but they have made them actively worse by preventing them from taking the changing and the blue scribes
As an eldar player the only thing that feels really bad is phantasm being d6'. You pay one CP and still not guaranteed to get value out of it. The rest are logical.
And so what? You spend 1cp on reroll, and still not have anything guaranteed either.
So Eldrad is now a default pick and the Death Jester with Fates Messenger is still fantastic. Phantasm definitely feels like a waste of CP.
@@laszlopolyak4353 imagine paying a cp cor armour of contempt and then roll to see if you get the benefit
@@stamatisarvanitidis2430lots of strats have that wording. Including the marine movement strata.
@@DiceandGlory the thing is most eldar units become trading pieces without it, and they probably won't trade up. My main issue since I don't play very competitive lists is that this nerf doesn't account for some aspect warriors who were weaker before and now have been nerfed further because of the phantasm changes without compensation.
I dont quite understand why marines got so many nerfs to key units. But overall looks like a good balance slate.
Drukharii look solid 👌
I have Tau, World Eaters, CSM and Chaos Knights. Three of my four factions got nerfed. Feelsbadman.
Sad to see that you brushed over Guard points so quick, the points change to Guard or better said the lack there of is a huge Problem, While many other Armys got big point drops, Guard which is overcosted almost across the Board, did only get a point increase on one Unit. Also no Rule change to their bad Detachment. It look to me as GW simply overlooked some Factions, either by accident or incompetance is hard to say.
Man this really feels like they did nothing for knights. The 3/4 build might be able to squeeze in an extra armiger. The 2/7 will probably only manage like an assassin or something. Its just... really underwhelming. No good rule buffs. And stratagem nerfs. Its rough
Would much rather the points remained the same and had bondsman back for big knights.
@@Nikkehansson I think literallyEVERY knights player agrees with you lol
The Transport Keyword is SO fucking annoying! Everytime Chaos players are doing well and starting to have fun GW has to smack us down for not playing their beloved loyalist marines.
It’s ridiculous.
You can’t even choose to not give a transport a mark.
I used to have chosen with MOp mark of slaanesh, 5 mark of nurgke havocs in a nurgle rhino.
Was fluffy and strong and made list building unique and fun.
Now if I want slaanesh troops in it I’ll have to make do with exploding attacks in close combat with my rhino instead of shots. Sounds fluffy and fun…. Yea right.
i just wanted to say Laurence's hair looks very good and this style fit him very well.
I think you're wrong on chaos daemons personally. The points changes are really quite impactful to them!
did they fix the "hell blasters blow up and shoot again during it" stuff?
They have truly nerfed CSM. I can get the price increases but to overly nerf the strats, destroy the accursed cultist combo, and hammer everything else, while not bringing down the points of anything else is a slap in the face. They have really hurt the fun in list building as well with the mark nerf as well. I can’t put a unit of chosen or legionaries with havocs unless in a transport unless they all have the exact same mark.
What’s joke.
Did admech even get mentioned or did I miss something?
They were mentioned in the video along with necrons, but it was that they both got nothing.
@@chriscannon7065 cheers mate. I must have just zoned out
Why does GW hate Thousand Sons? Correct me if I'm wrong but how can you justify Rubrics staying at 105pts. All they can do is shoot. You don't really want them on the objective because they can defend themselves because their not survivable have T4, 3+Sv, and 5+Inv.
FWIW it doesn't seem like Drukhari are overtuned based on my 2 games with the new detachment (anecdotal I know). Incubi and wyches are better at trades now, but they aren't quite what they were in 9th (at least not without character support). They are still T3 1W bodies after all
This - also I need to work out how to get pain tokens back!!
Everything I've seen and tested so far suggests Drukhari are actually still bad.
The new detachment is very fun but there's simply not enough durability, not enough pain tokens, and not enough CP to win many games with it. You run out of resources and everything dies.
Realspace Raid with 6 Talos, 3 Ravagers, and maybe one unit of Incubi and an Archon is probably the way to go
@@niallcampbellCronos, Incubi, Death Jester, Voidweavers... It's still difficult to maintain enough of them.
@@AllThingsCubey yeah we'll see, I think it's too early to have figured out the best builds for the detachment. I haven't seen people running Talos with it yet, but I still think they probably should be there, as they are the only thing that is even somewhat durable, and are efficient with pain tokens once they kill something. Plus AP-3 D3 melee is nice and something we don't have anywhere else
Just the idea that it's 20 pages of rules and errata in an edition that was touted as "simple" wasn't it? That they were simplifying everything to make it easier and it sounds like it's never been more complicated.
I think you’re overvaluing the drukhari stuff. Without fixing core problems of the faction, the detachment is a bandage. It doesn’t even work properly because the faction is starved for pain tokens and cp, while the detachment wants you to spend a tremendous amount of both
And 0yet they are doing just fine post dataslate 😅😅
@@fateweaver9844bruh it’s been like 2 days, there’s no data to make that claim lol
@@william3958 Back at you. My claim is as valid as yours.
But this is 40k. Whiners gonna whine
Great show. Thanks.
No points reduction for CSM are very disappointing. We need it for Heldrake, Helbrute and perhaps for the Land Raider to make them more competitive. A basic CSM Lord is now the same points as a SM Captian in terminator armour?!
GW must've been on crack as the massive points reduction (245 - 190) for a bloody Tyrannofex is absolutely insulting.
Chef, we heard you the first three times about your "Which buff was too much" sermon 🥃
Incase no one has mentioned it - a court of the archon can only join Kabalites :)
56:30 are you sure about that Spider? They did it before. Like with the Votann XD
To the dark angels thing, Once the codex comes out you are locked out of the index rules on the app.
44:47 my favorite joke is that Druhkari raiders are the only vehicle in 40k that the real vehicle and the model are made out of the same material lol
I am happy with the GK buffs here !
Can’t wait to get my third iteration of the Dark Angels points costs and finally run my Deathwing Terminators army as they were always intended to be. A horde.
So chef, the absolutely can make more frequent changes if they make the rules a living document.
True, releasing patches every day or week probably not a great idea, but monthly, certainly; in advance of major tournaments - definitely
I'd recommend talking with the fine folks at Warphammer if you want some perspective on why daemons are absolutely in a *great* spot post-changes
What happens to the Lictor special rule? It says u can rapid ingress for 0 CP but they dont have deep strike
It rapid ingresses using the Strategic Reserve deployment rules.
@@omegonchris have tou seen the change they made to the stratagem yesterday?
Lictors do not have deep strike but their special rule is built around rapid ingress. Is this a nerf or an oversight? curious how you would play it.
They deploy using the Strategic Reserve deployment rules
One shot weapons not available for Firing Deck: pretty big for those acolyte hybrids
I've been playing Drukhari, and from what I've seen, you must be a really expert player to use them effectively. Till now, they were a shooting mobile army (semihorde), wich lost all the match ups with other similar shooting or shooting mobile armies. Tau, better shooting with moving, AstraMilit better shoot etc. I know these buff+buff+point redo seems much, but think also about that these new Detach seems very CP hungry and with fewer Pain token, the base for the Drukhari offense.
But still vehicles are glass, infantry as well. In a not dense of cover table, drukhari armies just don't stay on the field.
I don't know if this detach is so op like you fear, at least gives option to use the entire range of models... a range which is not fully supported... :((((
It's not OP. Incubi and wyches can actually kill stuff now, that's essentially what this change means. Other than that, the army basically plays the same
Yeah their suggestions about "57% winrate" are a joke.
Drukhari will be lucky to make 48% with this I reckon. The new detachment is very fun but it runs out of pain tokens and CP very fast and then basically doesn't work
@@AllThingsCubey yes, it will quickly end resources, and then you basically have nothing to really generate cp/discount them
@@alessandropatria1027 Also any smart opponent will just blow up your transports with extreme haste, especially the Raiders, making you unable to get your buffs.
@@AllThingsCubey yeah, basically the bullseye priority for the opponent is moved from the Ravager to the raiders and venoms. Which blow up even easier the the Ravs, so...
You 100% can charge out of a land raider from deepstrike, since it specifies "unless a rule states otherwise"
Yep, though as GW specified you can't set up the disembarked infantry within 9" this offers you basically no advantage whatsoever
Lawrences reaction to the Drukhari updates showcases my biggest issue with modern 40k. Give players their rules and let them get excited about ARMIES and MODELS! GW is so focused on releasing and then trying to fix a new edition every few years it loses so much potential with player excitement and model purchases. I would argue that the TT team could sit for a few weeks and they would be able to write a solid set of detachment rules for every faction in the game. GW takes years to release codex's which consist of 90% fluff that very few care about. Stop dragging your feet GW and taking two years to release codex's. Smash out the codex rules, provide them for free and then players will buy more models, start new armies and GW's sales would go nuts. Let us spend $100 on new models over a codex purchase. Free rules = money for models and easier access for new players to then BUY MORE MODELS!
As a Space Wolf player, i need to know! why a crusading fleet? :D
Watching this after a quick flick through and oh my goodness there's so much to go through!
My pure Nurgle daemons have gone done in some points, up in others, overall I can do..... nothing different.
The fact that the cheapest thing I can do is buy a Nurgling base, means small points changes have almost no effect.
My fluff chaos space marines have taken a hit sadly
Out of my 6 renegade chaos space marine Armies
Red corsairs , scourged and my purge came out great no issues
My crimson slaughter and flawless host suffered
My Brazen beasts were hit hard
I simply do not know if I can or even want to keep up with the frequent changes 40k goes through. I feel like taking a long break and focusing on The Old World.
The Spider needs to lead a Sky Splinter raid.
BA needed a bit more than just +2 strength. Melee is not a lot of fun at the moment and you still need to make the charge, weather overwatch and risk getting hit back, so it’d be fair to actually dent something enough so that the whole ordeal of getting there wasn’t wasted! 😅
Those enhancements in SoS are almost worthless, it’s a bit nutty.
Why did they change the drukhari detachment?
Maybe because their original detachment actually didn't DO anything :D
It was easy to remember though ;) one less rule to worry about out lol
Cn some one confirm if you charge a fight first unit does the charging unit still get the initial attack or doe fight first overide the charge
Charging gives you fight first, so both units fight in the Fights First sub phase. In that sub phase, you alternate selecting eligible units starting with the person who isn't talking their turn, so the enemy unit that was charged would have the first opportunity to fight.
edit: Completely agree on the lack of points granularity for certain units that essentially "kill" running anything other than the most cutting-edge-meta-dumpster-cookie-cutter-end-all-be-all loadouts. Bring back points for certain units (i.e. mostly Elites and Heavy Support), keep wargear free for Battlelines/"tech pieces" units (i.e. action monkey/infiltrators/scouts/etc). And if that gives me enough points back for another enhancement or another small "tech piece", even better!
edit2: Re. pinned comment, I thought Chef's title was "Overlord"... Did Szarekh finally succeed in his quest?
----------------------------------------------------------------------
You can Rapid Ingress units that are in Strategic Reserves. Strategic Reserves units are technically Reserve units. The errata in the Rules Commentary only adds the caveat that, if your unit has the Deep Strike ability, you can Rapid Ingress them via Deep Strike even though it is not your Movement Phase.
As it is technically your opponent's Movement Phase and not yours, a player would not be able to use the Deep Strike rule while Rapid Ingressing, as you're now under the "out-of-phase" rule ("as if it were the Reinforcements step of your Movement phase") because of the use of Rapid Ingress, which would prevent your from using any other rules that can be used in said phase, like Deep Strike.
Thanks ppl for keeping it real
Not sure if you touched upon the Chaos Daemons "Daemonic Pact" change where you need to run more Battleline units of Tzeentch, Khorne, Nurgle or Slaneesh units than Non-Battleline units of those keywords. I might've missed it since I skipped through the vid here and there but what are your thoughts on this?
I find it very unnecessary and frankly, annoying. I'm assuming it fixes something that was being abused but here I am feeling forced to run horrors if I wanna run one of my favorite models in the game, the Lord of Change alongside my Thousand Sons...
Exactly why it was done. Comp players abused the rule, especially when it came to units like Blue Scribes and Changeling.
The other option was to increase the cost of the Daemons index wide and that only hurts Daemons players.
Sure, BS and Nurglings went up but Changeling and Flamers went down, 2 units that were also abused.
Other Chaos armies SHOULD have to pay a tax to take Daemon CHARACTER models. Word Bearers aren't just going to summon the Changeling by it's lonesome.
The change to allies gave GW a reason to lower the cost of most of the Daemons making pure Daemon armies better now
this was so fun to listen to
Niche one, but the Tyranid Lictor's ability allows it to use the rapid ingress strat for 0cp. It doesn't have deep strike. So the ability can't be used anymore.
It can still rapid ingress. They misread the rule.
Part of the reason drukhari probably got a detachment is that the fans literally hated it both from a game play and fundamental reasons. Drukhari fans get very angry when you try to force the three prongs as one get along army. It needed to change and im betting they heard and listened. Its not just that it was bad its that it was infuriating the fanbase.
Do you think they’ll ever make melee more powerful? It’s been a shooting focused game for ages now.
I mean Bloodletters at 12ppm can hit at S8, ap5, d4 with the right buffs
Can you shoot through friendly minis? :o
I suspect that a lot of Eldar players are gonna pivot to Ynnari builds. The Drukhari getting cheaper is a boon and you can’t use strands of fate on them anyway so who cares that you have fewer dice.
I was running a Drukhari heavy Ynnari build *before* the dataslate and loved it. I got a best Aeldari prize at a small GT and my list has barely changed. I literally modified it to include a Wraithlord for a bit more fate dice generation, and tweaked the Drukhari half, but it's functionally the same list, which makes me happy because I was having a lot of fun with it.
Sure the Yncarne is nerfed and the Avatar of Khaine is a much better beatstick unit, but there are still techs with the Yncarne that are nasty to deal with, and my list is based on speed. The Avatar of Khaine sorta requires a Farseer to give it -1 to wound each turn to be truly nasty.