Rethink Under Deck Drainage | Sluiceway Landscaping | Sawdust EP05
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 มิ.ย. 2024
- Water is everywhere when you’re working on the coast, and that’s we’re talking about on Episode 5 of SAWDUST.
We start with a visit to Site Superintendent Garrett Kirwin at a waterfront build in Matunuck, Rhode Island where we have a classic coastal building situation. There’s a second story deck in an area well known for wind-driven rain, and our client wants to make the most of the space below with a furnished 3-season room. Applying years of experience in the business. Garrett has developed a custom drainage system for the rooftop deck that has us rethinking best approaches!
Next, we meet up with framing crew leader Ryan Sweenor for a “My Toolbelt” segment that will not disappoint.
Our final stop is back at the historic grist mill where we’re talking water, but this time, the name of the game is how to harness it to power the mill. Jon Zeyl and his team Landscape Creations have teamed up with us to give back to the South Kingstown Land Trust and our local community. They’re donating services to improve the sluice way that feeds the Samuel E. Perry Grist Mill and strengthen the weir at its water source, aptly named Mill Pond. Tune in as Jon explains the construction repairs that will give 300-year-old hydro-power technology a new future.
TIME STAMPS
0:00 Introduction
0:50 The Problem with Rooftop Decks
2:45 Garret’s Big Idea
6:45 My Toolbelt with Ryan Sweenor
9:10 Landscaping for Waterpower at the Grist Mill
IN THIS EPISODE
Jeff Sweenor, @JeffSweenor on Instagram
Garrett Kirwin
Ryan Sweenor, @rsweenor on Instagram
Jon Zeyl, @LandscapeCreationsRI on Instagram
DIRECTED by Thomas Draudt, @actualsizeproductions on Instagram
Follow these #CoastalBuilding projects at #SBISawdust. Or, for more about our coastal building work and #BuilderLife, follow @Sweenor_Builders on Instagram or visit SweenorBuilders.com
© 2020 Sweenor Builders, Inc. - แนวปฏิบัติและการใช้ชีวิต
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Brilliant deck drainage!
Such a nice restoration job by everyone involved, what a cool project!
Love to see professional craftsmanship at work! Thanks for sharing your problem solving solutions!
Thank you! It's our pleasure - glad you're enjoying the series.
Nice job, you can really see the quality craftsmanship in all your projects
Thank you, appreciate it!
Fantastic as well as fascinating! Great collaborative team effort! Love this SAWDUST series! Can't wait til next Wed. EP06! Job well done!
Thank you!
I’ve been researching deck over roofs for our project. This is by far the best idea I’ve seen. Will be using for sure! Thanks for sharing and great video!
Glad it was helpful!
These are great, I would also recommend putting the self sealing flashing tape on the boards before hammering in the nails. It’s what I do to make sure that pressure treated doesn’t ever rot.
Beautiful, innovative construction techniques shown here. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. Much appreciated.
Great cinematography. Makes learning about building and Sweenor Builders' process captivating. Can't wait for Episode #6!
Thanks Maura, we've got the best in the business creating this stuff!
Dang that was awesome stuff!
Love this!
Great job collaborating on the grist mill project. It looks fantastic. Clean, natural and historically accurate. Snug Harbor roof sleeper drainage solution is genius. Your team is spot on and I wait patiently every week for the next episode. Kudos.
Thank you, and yes, stay tuned!
This is a good idea. I like it. Keeping clean might be an issue, but should work well.
Great video production, Jeff. Love the houses you build. 👍
Thanks Brad and welcome!
Great videography and editing. Love the show!
Thanks for watching!
Good invention, necessity is the mother of invention.
Truly enjoy your show. I can’t tell you anything about building, You have forgotten more than I’ll ever know. But the show isn’t over produced like others...TOH. Keep up the great work. And Thanxs for keeping it real.
Thanks for the kind words and thanks for watching!
It's like I'm watching this old house. I love it
Glad you like it and thanks for watching!
I agree, film automatically started and it was only after not seeing any other ToH cast for ages that I realised it wasn't ToH. Professional quality production.
Nice solution. Thanks
Absolutely brilliant
Thank you Corey!
Really genius- great tip to remember 😁
Glad it was helpful!
That old mill was really cool..
I really like the tool belt segments, so cool to see how each person has theirs set up.
Thanks, more to come!
Ryan should just spend the $20.00 on the const master app and he'll only need to carry his phone ..
Most phones have a calculator app. Hopefully you’ve got an Otterbox case so it’s drop proof if not bullet proof.
@@davidelliott5843 a calculator isn't the same as a construction master
Pretty much everyone has there phone at least out of the truck with them......
I was thinking about this very situation of a new design build I am working on. Thank you for the great water removal system.
Thank you for watching!
Big fan of your work on TOH. Very cool to see a break out series focusing on Sweenor!
Thank You! And yes, that is the idea!! Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment!
Great job, guys ;-)
Thanks Kathryn!!
Videos are very well done, this is some of the best-formatted content on YT. Very professional; well done. Subscribed.
Wow, thanks! Welcome to our channel!
The sheet metal formed in between decking joists, prior to installing decking, seems like the best idea for waterproofing the space under that I've seen. I think the only way to make this work is to make sure the deck slants 1/4"/foot away from the house for proper drainage. If the deck was slanted less than that, the sheet metal forming would need to get progressively deeper away from the house, which would make the metal bending more complicated and cost more than if all way bent the same way.
I'm going to built a deck above a walkout patio door next summer. I was looking at locking aluminum decking but the cost is really steep. Other alternatives are either using something like roofing membrane, which looks bad underneath as the membrane sags between joists or the many under deck solutions that looks like a lot of neck wrenching work. My deck will be 11' off the ground.
I'm seriously thinking of drawing up a galvanized sheet metal profile and sending out to local sheet metal shops for a quote. I can always paint the underside of the metal before installing. I'd use joist flashing tape over the metal edges on the joists and that should seal well even with nails and screws going though the flashing when installing.
Genius idea
Thank you!
Great idea!
Thank you Tony!
Nice to see a good contractor that cares about the process. Unfortuneatly we are about as far apart as possible in the US without crossing the ocean. PS your framer has a greet sense of humor, luckily he is not a Samurai he would have to Seppuku himself for dropping his hammer.
Great stuff
Thank you Andrew!
Hi Garrett, I used your idea on my new deck. This is a outstanding idea and system. Great job!!
This is awesome to hear!!
I really like the way they preserve the heritage of the waterway.
Good show !
Thanks Keith, we are very proud of it and thanks for watching!
Did one last week using a adjustable foot with aluminium joists on top with the deck on top .and plenty drainage underneath on the roof .real easy to use . Think it was a product called rhino deck
Used that deck drainage system Garrett came up with on a project. Thanks Garrett
Glad to hear!!
Looks great. Wondering about the long haul of steel breaking down through the course of time being on pressure treated
Just found this channel, can’t believe you haven’t got more subscribers. Brilliant content.
Welcome aboard!
Great job
Thank you!
I just had to pull the freestanding deck on my house because of leak. The amount of debris under the deck was astonishing. To make situation worse the rim joist was covered by the azec board that literally left less that an inch of space from its bottom to the roof's epdm :( Definitely going to protect to deck when rebuild ! Thanks for sharing!
I feel like ya'll should be in The Build Show network. Great content.
Thank you for the compliment!
Agreed!
You might want to add some synthetic mesh at the bottom end of those deck sleeper channels. Remember in RI we have fall hornet season. Those nice dry spaces would be great for nesting locations. Just a thought.
Good suggestion, thanks!
@@Sweenorbuilders ... have seen that mesh clog with silt then the water stops flowing. You would have to do annual maintenance to keep the water running.
Ryan, lol, I've got an almost identical set of tools in my tool belt including an awl. You must be an awesome carpenter. 😎
He sure is Roger! Thanks for following!
Great idea just a couple suggestions, 1) someone already brought up the point of the non galvanized nails and the pressure treated lumber and the problems that will eventually arise but the pressure treated lumber will cause the metal to deteriorate also, I would put a peel and stick tape like what you use around windows between the 2X4s and the metal to keep the lumber from reacting with the metal. 2) find a metal roofing company with a 20’ brake and they can make your trim in solid pieces so you don’t have to overlap. Again great idea I’ll use it myself thanks guys
Great Suggestions Dennis! Thanks!
Second the idea of putting down the adhesive membrane first. That will isolate the metal pans from the p.t. wood ( along with the other benefits of protecting wood if there is any standing water on it). Still have to deal with fasteners.
Could use copper roofing nails to secure it, but then have galvanic reaction problem between copper nail and metal pan. Could just hold the pans in place with 2nd application of flashing tape? Better yet, make the pans out of copper instead of sheet metal ( what are you guys, a bunch of cheap skates 😂🙄).
With a full tool belt like that suspenders would come in handy
He probably still has hips. They tend to disappear later.
Hope the channel is a success. I subbed wo watching video lol been a fan since you guys were on TOH. Keep up the good work.
Thanks Mike! When you watch the video, let us know what you think!
@@Sweenorbuilders I watched several and really enjoyed them. Love the content and modern building concepts and explanations.
As an architect, I approve of your decking solution 100%. Great work.
Awesome! Thank you!
What about a concern for the trapped moisture that will inevitably occur between the rubber roof and the bottom of the metal troughs? That’s gotta be a problem with rotting those PT Sleepers sooner than the rest of the assembly....therefore they become the weakest link. No?
@@dovetailgroupllc You realize the "PT" means they're impregnated with a rot resistant chemical. Those sleepers are used in normal deck construction as well.
@@nickmcgarvey6463 ....yes I am aware that PT means pressure treated....are you aware that there are different grades of pressure treated? And even if they are full ground contact rated, the moisture and heat build-up that will occur within that assembly will rot those sleepers in less than 20yrs...and then what does the homeowner have? I believe SWEENOR is building for 50-100yr life cycles
@@jonathanscholl6035 Those sleepers are in the deck with or without the sheet metal.
Could also put zip tape around the sleepers so they stay dry and protect the metal from the pressure treated chemicals.
Really nice deck drainage detail. I would love to see your decking and decking fastener choice. Also, I would like to see how you tie the decking/joists troughs into the water trough on the rim. BTW - Video quality crushes. Happy Holidays.
Thanks for watching and happy holidays to you!
Ryan, the belt is sick af dude
Thanks man! She’s been good to me
Love the setup. Do you mind sharing what brand belt and pouches?
Douglas Reaneau all Occidental. My first belt lasted 5 years before I got a rip between the holes, the pouches are still original and have another 5 years in them easily. Little on the heavy side but I highly recommend.
The debris will still collect on the metal. The sleepers are protected but now you can get synthetic purpose made sleepers that won't rot.
I expect the metal will self clean a bit better however, the triangular sluice will concentrate water and the texture of the metal is smoother than the rubber, making the flow velocity a bit higher to better carry sediment away. Also, there isn’t the same nook and cranny problem where sediment will build up in the 90 deg corners of the sleepers. I would be curious how this system weathers with time.
If you let the slepers dry and seam taped the metal drain pans you'd effectively have a 2nd roof. and prevent any rot from getting into the sleepers.
Make the last row of deck boards removable (at the house) to spray a garden hose down periodically.
This is exactly the system that I came up with, minus full flat membraned base; but you got me considering it lol. The one hang up I have, is how to cover the cavities, both top and the ends, to prevent nesting bees, etc. So far I’m looking at a ss mesh screen.... which would also abate any debris...
Good call on preventing homes in the cavities, I shall need to consider this too. If I think of a good idea I’ll run it by you; please let me know if you come up with something first. It think the bug netting idea would work, just need it to be removable/trap door style so you can do clean outs
Could use something like core-a-vent or a black fiber mesh material ( can't think of name brands right now). We use stuff like that to keep bugs out of rain screens we do behind siding).
I’m in. Teach me.
Looking to build a deck on top of rubber roofing. I like your system! Is that whole deck floor just floating? If so, how do your deck railings get attached?
Where can I purchase the diverter sheets that you used? Your work is absolutely fantastic!
Could you create a video on how Sweenor Builders does facia and soffiting trim. I would like to see some new ideas. Great videos and I enjoy watching your work on This Old House
Will do, thanks for your interest!
You should put a EPDM slip sheet between the membrane and the pressure treated.
With the metal under the decking I have to wonder if that will also clog with debris then back up toward the house? Working on a flat roof leak under a sleeper deck as I type here. As I see it, the only thing you might gain is a few extra years on the roofing material due to no UV issues. My roof is 35 years old right now and even with PT wood that also splits / warps with time so needs replacement every 20 years or so.... even when stained for extra protection.
Hello! Would you mind commenting on the double water proofing? What I mean is, why do both waterproofing layers and not one or the other? It seems like the metal and Gtape works well and there isn't any need for the flatroof waterproofing underneath. Also, can the 2x4 runners eventually dry out and not rot? Thanks!
Great episode. Would love to see how the sluiceway landscaping turned out.
Coming this spring!!
Been doing this in the south for years. There are companies that do this all over down here.
Nice!
That is a very awesome detail for roof drainage under a deck. Simple and even washable from the upper deck, nice work. Agree with the others. Taping is a good idea on top of those PT members. Also is there any potential for strong wind to lift and rattle that floating system?
Thanks for the video, subscribed.
Glad you liked it! very doubtful on the uplift. It is all interconnected with virtually no way for wind to get underneath plus it weighs over 2500#
Have you ever tried Plidek waterproofing? We install it here in Florida. Builders here love it because all trades can work on it after completion without harming it.
We will look into that product! Thanks
What holds the deck down? You've essentially created another membrane when you tied the sleepers together. A strong wind at the end of the channels will want to lift the whole deck. Where does the air between the rubber and the metal escape in high wind situations?
Following. I want to do something similar over a garage extension roof.
Of the wind can’t escape at the other side m there should be less lifting going on.
I’m with you those sleepers are going to twist and curl. The homeowner is going to be pissed walking on that spongy thing after a year. It would have been better if the sleepers were under the rubber membrane or torch down.
How are the treated 2x4's sleepers attached to the roof deck so they don't move? Or is it a completely floating deck?
How does the water drain? Are the sleepers not ripped to correct the slope of the rubber roof deck?
So if you have a sheet metal trough and tape over the seams do you really need the rubber membrane underneath? And where do I get this sheet metal? Do I have to make it myself?
Why wouldn’t you use the Trex Rainescape system for the under deck drainage???
Awesome to see you guys on TH-cam without the editing and time constraints of TOH!
Glad you're enjoying the series!
Hey Jeff......I watch your work all the time with This Old House......sure am happy I found you had your own channel here. Question for ya......I have had the same idea to waterproof and control water under a deck, still waiting for my first opportunity to try it.....I'm sure you have some type of vent at the bottom end of your metal troughs but what do you put there to keep bee's and other critters from making that void their new home?
Hi Paul, Thanks for your question...there is a skirt board at the end of the trough that conceals most of the void so only high enough for water to drain out. Hopefully bee's won't be a problem but we will keep an eye on it! Thanks for watching!
No worries about the metal buckling from expansion and contraction and nailing it both ends? There is a reason why metal roofs are designed to move...Looks like a good idea but it could be an issue. Hopefully the deck boards will provide enough force to keep the metal from buckling.
Excellent point! We believe that two screws in each deck board 12" o.c. will be enough to resist that force! Thanks for your input and for watching!
What do you guys do with a sleeper deck for uplift?
How do you keep the floating pressure treated 2x4s from not deteriorating? Since if any water gets into the epdm, it'll be soaking in that water for a long time?
Thanks! great channel
Treated lumber will last for 40 years and I bet it will last even longer because it is well protected and will get good sunlight to dry it. Thanks for your question and thanks for watching!
I love the fabricated sheet metal option. Does your fabricator sell these? Do you have a link for them?
You need to insulate contact between non galvanized metal and pressure treated lumber. Galvinezed 1 1/4 nails and another layer of tape over the sleeper before installing the stamped drainage steel would extend the life of this system to the claims made. 👍
Thanks Kyle, great suggestion!
I know this video is a bit old, but with floating sleepers, what keeps the deck from resisting wind uplift?
Have a look at Capiphon Draninage a really good system
Will do - thank you!
Awesome video, great content and cinematography! Are the sleepers secured to the house in any way? Thanks
Thank You! No the sleepers are not fastened to the rubber roof...once the decking is fastened to the sleepers it won't go anywhere!
@@Sweenorbuilders
Floating deck?
Strong winds could blow it away?
Serious question. Wouldnt fiberglass under the deck be much better
It's things like this and thinking about living in that house makes me wish I could live on the east coast, then I consider the neighbors.
Anyone is better than people from California, Oregon and Washington. Those people are lost causes.
@@chefdan87 idk man. Aren’t both the coast pretty comparable
@@moondog573 In my experience its more of the political affiliation that makes for good neighbors not so much region. Those who claim to be the most tolerant, inclusive and understanding tend to be the most obnoxious, insufferable and condescending.
What's the flashing material? Isn't there an issue with flashing and pressure treated lumber?
I like the idea but using a hidden deck fastener system means you can just easily pull up individual decking to remove debris and wash out in minutes....this seems like there's significant downsides. Wind uplift issues and now an additional layer of complexity to get to the underlying membrane for repair and maintenance.
What's keeping it from uplift?
Is outdoor vinyl waterproof membranes used in the Northeast US? I heard they are approved for use over living space and are slip-resistant, available in many colors and generally maintenance free. I was told by my contractor that the vinyl is the waterproofing and there is no need for a rubber membrane, sleepers or any other water shedding system. Less chance of failure. This vinyl outdoor vinyl flooring is popular in Canada and the East Coast US. Have you installed this type of outdoor vinyl before?
Never use EPDM under a deck. The sleeper will pinch the rubber and cause leaks. Use a membrane called awplan. If you haven't heard of it ,research it.
How are the deck sleepers affixed to the roof if it's not fastened through the rubber? If they are fully floating, what's keeping the wind from lifting the deck?
Hi Shane, not affixed but it weighs a few thousand pounds and no way for wind to get underneath as there is a perimeter trim skirt around it flush to tp of decking.
the deck drainage system is brilliant!!! quick question... bc the sleepers are not fastened in any way... do they warp, twist or move... and when you walk on it.. are there spots that thump as your foot adds pressure...
Great question. Very possible. The deck screws help a little bit, but it is wood, and it’s an imperfect system. We try to avoid using PT straight off the shelf, and give it some time to dry, because the dryer it is the less it will move. A week of drying will weed out some of the crappy boards. The grain will give hints on how the wood is going to move, but time is the best judge. Hope that helps
How did you fasten the pressure treated 2x4 over the rubber...? Thanks
It's not fastened. It's floating on top. He stated that in video @ 3:38.
On the decking. Why don’t you use a simple system like Eterno Invica? (easy access) Is there a USA equivalent? Also, I’ve never been a big fan of rubber roofs. When you have spent half your working life surveying & maintaining buildings of all different types. This roof system is the costliest when it goes wrong; too easy to puncture. I’ve organised many repairs over many years on different brands of single membrane roof coverings all over the UK. Maybe that is why the video commentator mentions the the point of gaining access if there is a water leak. What made him say that? 30 years of experience? As a suggestion, use a hard wearing thicker reinforced bitumen flat roof product or roll on glass fibre system in the first place. They are harder wearing & more cost effective in the long run. Who wants to dig under nailed down linear sheeting buckling them in the process & trying to relay them? Also, treated timber only lasts externally say, 15-20 years (depending on environment) You know what it’s like in the construction game; tips to help each other. Jeff, good luck to all your team. p.s.(Quality video presentation) 👷♂️
What about electrolysis with the copper in the PT and the electro galvanized metal. I like the idea it's so simple yet effective. I feel like the PT needs a membrane to separate it from the metal. Would be interesting to pull it in 5 years and see how it's doing.
Interesting point, maybe we will tape the sleeper before the metal goes on. Thank you!
You need to use a membrane on the top of the sleepers. Every hole or screw will rot the board in time.
vycor or g tape on top of the metal seams
How about another membrane on the membrane to cover the membrane.
If the floating, pressure treated 2x sleepers aren't attached through the rubber, how are they attached to the structure?
It is not attached. The decking is attached to the sleepers only. It is a giant mat that weighs a couple thousand pounds, not likely to move. Thanks for your interest and for watching!
Shame there’s not a permanent wax that could be applied to the deck gutters or rubber roofing to make water flow and debris slide more easily.
Find a metal roofing distributor.we have a 21'CNC jorns brake, that piece you have you could get ONE PIECE...AND IF THERE NICE THEY WILL DO TO LENGTH..I could make it 10'3" long..and you could use scrap cover flat sheets lol. There cheap ..aka bargain. 10 bks ea. I'm sure it's not nessisary but a 2 doller roll of butyl tape 3/8" x 1/2# x45' long ..be nice on that sleeper,under the trim.!! Well hopefully your "buddy" let ya know about cover sheets. Or have him buy a downgraded trim coil from his manufacturer! It's usually about a doller or so every l.f. I get em 2000-6000 lf. Sometimes. That would be practically all the metal had ever need for those ! Good job guys!
Thanks for the feedback and the suggestions!
Where do u buy that sheet metal
nice job but still dont show how to stop the debris from adding up at edge ??
I am new to decks over roofs and moisture mitigation procedures. How are floating sleepers attached? Are the deck boards attached in a similar fashion?
Rubber roof has a slight pitch to it. Sleepers are not attached to the rubber roof and are spaced 12 inches on center. The metal flashing pans are nailed to the sleepers which keeps them spaced properly. We then put flashing tape over the top and then screw the decking to the sleeper only.
@@Sweenorbuilders code in this area doesn’t specify the deck needs to be attached to the roof? I’m just think of wind; but maybe the air gaps are too small for that to be a concern?
Thanks for clarifying! Happy Holidays!