This movie felt like it would’ve been a pretty good plot for a Fantastic Four movie where you replace the Quantum Realm with the Negative Zone. It just felt like the settings and plot clashed with Ant-Man as a character. Half of the fun is seeing him grow and shrink in relation to everyday objects and situations. And you can’t do any of that when the entire world is unfamiliar
Hit the nail on the head when you go back and watch ant man 1 the scaling of the scene where Scott puts the suit on for first time and the Yellowjacket fights are so damn cool but the scenes here are just so bland cause the shrinking loses its fun in this setting
Either do a movie in the human world or have him explore the microverse riding water bears and fighting amoeba and hydras and the plot can be some supervillain is trying to release a bioweapon to destroy society and the ant man army must shrink and act like white blood cells etc
There lies the problem. Alot of people don't know, Payton Reed the director of all 3 Antman films has been aggressively lobbying to do Fantastic 4 when they get rebooted in the MCU behind the scenes. Feigi & the Disney big wigs don't feel he can handle that great a scale so he basically made the Pyms HIS version of the Fantastic 4 including pushing to use Kang. MODOK, should've been the main villain instead of a b.s. punching bag sidekick & Ksng setup in the after credits similar to Thanos
Did anyone else think that the ending was cheap where the portal closes with Scott and Hope stuck in the quantum realm but then 3 seconds later it's just back online? I was already surprised there wasn't at least a minor major death like Hank or Janet but then it seemed like nothing of consequence happened. We learned Kang was dangerous and there are plenty of him coming, which is probably the same information we're going to learn in Loki S2
If by dangerous you mean we can add Ants to his lists of weakness’s including knives then sure. He’s certainly scary and watching a bunch of him screech like animals really solidified the threat that’s supposed to be the next Thani
it really felt like the movie was gonna end with scott and kang both being stuck in the quantum realm, and it was really jarring when hope came back through the portal to deus ex machina the situation. like the movie almost had consequences but then it chickened out at the last second
We knew that time is faster in the regular world than in the quantum realm, so that 3 seconds was pretty much a lot of time already for Cassie (who we knew was able to contact the quantum realm) and the others to get the portal running again.
Quantumania needed to be weirder. Also, this film did the thing that really bugs me in lots of movies. "I have a secret that would be really important to share but THERE'S NO TIME!" There would definitely be time.
Yea... Except Janet had months to years to explain the truth.... Since Ant-Man 3 to Ant-Man 4 is probably 5+ years... And she said nothing in all that time.... she didn't say anything because As Ryan George said..... "so the movie can happen"....
Evangeline Lilly didn’t get NEARLY as much backlash for her political views as Letitia Wright did. Evangeline even doubled down and said Marvel respects her political views. Whereas with Letitia she apologized and got vaccinated. News publications started spreading rumors about her on set that weren’t true. I think the distinction between the two actresses should be addressed.
My two big problems with the movie were that I really felt that Kang needed to win and Scott needed to die to properly set up the stakes and threat of Kang for the rest of phase five and six and neither of those things happened. Kang was beat by a bunch of ants and basically nothing changed from the beginning to the end of the movie which I felt was rather disappointing.
Yes. The ending I wanted is everyone else gets through except for Scott. Him and Kang have the fist fight where Kang is clearly curb stomping Scott. Kang kills Scott and it seems like he’s going to begin his conquering. He gets all his tech back but right before he leaves, one of the post-credit scene Kangs shows up to stop him. Despite Quantum Kang having all his weapons and tech, post-credit Kang absolutely demolishes him, even faster and easier than Quantum Kang beat Scott. Then continue with the post-credit scene with that Kang returning and letting the others know that Quantum Kang is dead.
I would have even settled for Hank dying and Scott and Hope being trapped in the quantum realm with Kang escaping. But they couldn't even do that. Terrible ending to a mostly bad film
Even if he didn’t die, having him trap himself and Kang would’ve been a solid pay off, set up the stakes, and bring him back full circle to starting his tenure locked up.
Even worse, the story suggests that a sacrifice will be necessary and has a fake-out before a last-minute save, it does this several times during the finale. It truly feels like they were toying with the idea of killing Scott but lacked the conviction to see it through. It seems clear that Kang will require a "power-up" to truly be an Avengers-level threat and that's pretty disappointing for the big bad and central aspect of the Multiverse Saga.
My biggest issue with the movie, and on the whole I enjoyed it, was that it had a perfect ending where the heroes had just made the big sacrifice play, with real emotional stakes, and it was all reversed literally thirty seconds later. And not just in real time, which would have been bad enough, but in movie time as well. Zero time passed between the portal closing and Cassy reopening it.
The trailers for quantumania really made it seem like Kang was going to offer Scott a chance to be with his daughter during the snap. (Like almost directly said that was going to happen in the movie) I thought this was really interesting for 2 reasons. 1: it gives Scott a character arc, being tempered with an understandable yet ultimately selfish want. He would make a decision to go against his better judgment for something he wants, and ultimately give up the opportunity to be there for his daughter for the greater good. And 2: it makes Kang more interesting. It shows that he’s smart and knows how to manipulate people, that he isn’t just brute strength. But then in the actual movie, Kang is just like “do this bad thing for me or I’ll kill your daughter”, which is so much less interesting. It takes away Scott’s agency. He isn’t making a decision to do something bad, he’s being forced to. He doesn’t learn anything or grow.
Yeah I had the same reaction, the marketing made out that line was towards Scott which would have been really interesting, but in the actual movie it was a bit of a throwaway line to Janet, honestly would've been so much better if there was some level of internal conflict for Scott in the film and then there also could be conflict between Scott and the rest of the ant man crew as Janet would probably convince the others that kang can't be trusted resulting in tension between them and Scott Would've been cool
I didn't like that idea but I also don't understand why the trailers would propose a completely different storyline than what we are getting in the movie...
I know right that sounds like an amazing one main lesson for the plot! What even is the main lesson of the plot again?😭 This Movie could’ve easily hinted at making up for lost time but no…
MODOK should have been the main antagonist with Kang commanding him behind the scenes. Darren Cross as a character should definitely have a lot of things to unpack when meeting Hank, Hope, and Scott again after being horribly deformed. With MODOK, the stakes should have been more personal because MODOK/Darren would definitely be focused on vengeance. He was literally left to die...and it bugs me that neither Hope nor Hank even cared when he dies in the movie. When MODOK said "Tell me what to be" after being beaten by Cassie, you could see a glimpse of a good story idea there. At this point, Darren Cross is a completely broken man who doesn't even consider himself human anymore (and can you blame him? He lost everything). IMO this interaction should've been with either Hope or Hank, someone who knew Darren as a good man before the Pym Particles started affecting his mind in Ant Man 1. When Kang shows himself at the end and absolutely bodies Ant Man, it would be more believable for MODOK to have his redemption arc and holds Kang back, sacrificing himself as Ant Man and the Pyms escape from the Quantum realm.
I feel like the Conqueror variant of Kang should’ve been saved for and introduced in Fantastic Four. Like have He Who Remains in Loki, M.O.D.O.K in Quantumania and then Kang the Conqueror in Fantastic Four. This could’ve also made the conflict of the FF film more personal since Kang is a descendant of Reed.
I’m going to be competlely honest. This movie should’ve been a Fantastic Four movie. Everything about this screamed Fantastic Four. Family of adventures find themselves in an alternate dimension where they have to fight a cosmic overlord. That’s just Fantastic Four.
Unfortunately that didn’t happen. Now marvel is going to take like 3 years trying to convince us a guy who we’ve only seen lose is some sorta threat (I assume Loki beats up victory timely in season 2)
So much of the fun of the Ant Man movies is the "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" aspect of him shrinking in the real world, setting this mostly in the Quantum Realm really loses a lot and it sorely misses it.
Your idea about having Kang pulling strings behind the scenes and having MODOK as the main villain was so good that it made me annoyed with where they went in this movie. Better to have Kang being busy conquering elsewhere and slowly setting him as the big bad like we saw with Thanos. Slow and deliberate.
It would have been so much better if they completely hid kang from any of the advertising for this film and promoted it as a MODOK villain film only. In the film they kept not saying Kangs name which just frustrated me because everyone knew he was the main antagonist in the film, it’s been forced down our throats. Imagine how much better it would have been if they kept referring to ‘him’ and the audience think they mean MODOK and then when you finally meet MODOK you find out he is just a solider for a Kang reveal at the end.
@@mistermistermr732 why selling it around modok? sell it around the quantom world. like, it was talked about in end game and ant man and the wasp, sell it around finally seeing what is the quantom world
I definitely think Kang was a threat. He didn't really get defeated by Ant-Man and Wasp. The hyper intelligent ants swarmed him with whatever tech they had and managed to damage his armor off-screen. Sure, it would've been nice to see how that played out, but you can't tell me for a second that Scott, Hope and Cassie were doing anything to him in his suit
This Kang is definitely not dead. My theory is that he's going through the Probability Storm like Scott was and it's going to drive him slightly insane, but mold him into He Who Remains, who is then destined to set up the TVA, etc. The characters are going to realize time is a big ol loop and use a macguffin to break the loop or reboot the universe.
The problem is, this is a movie and not a Tv Series or Anime, u can't just put a cliffhanger death on a villain and then wait for 2 years if Kang is alive or not... this works in anime and Tv series but not in a movie. If he is still alive then show it, don't cheat on ur audience with this "Opps sorry he is not dead" type of thing.
Yes, Paul Rudd's charm is too much to resist. But he's never given the same amount of materials to Chris Evans or RDJ for Cap or Tony. Hell, you could say that for all the Antman cast.
Which is kind of lame considering that now those characters are gone you'd think the writers would compensate. At least by phase 5 since we've had a whole phase to "mourn." And they should have because it feels like they're genuinely trying to make us miss their presence/writing with how mediocre everyone else is in comparison.
"Having Iger back seems like a good sign" As soon as he came back, he fired 7000 people and started development of Frozen 3 and Toy Story 5. This man is as much of a penny pincher as Chapek was
Chapek was trying to recoup money lost during Igers buying spree that still hasn’t made its money back. They also totally put the burden of bad decisions Iger did on his shoulders
One nitpick, did time even pass outside of the Quantum Realm?! They had absolutely no issue with it so maybe it was a few days + but, this was one of the deepest levels of the Quantum Realm.
I don't think the Rick and Morty writers understand the Quantum Realm at all. They treat it like Fantastic Voyage - were you are small and surrounded by both large micro organisms and yet - many multicellular organisms with must have 'shrunk' (???) Introducing the question of why they - especially Bill Murray is even there. Ok he's doing an SNL skit but I mean - in Universe, why is he there? Based upon the prior AntMan films, and Endgame, the Quantum Realm is itself another Universe, which means another space/time - independent of our own. The shrinking to get into it is the rough equivalent of falling into a black hole and coming out in another Universe. Time is therefore independent in the Quantum Realm and *not* relative to our Universe. Endgame was smart about this - and realizing that therefore a tunnel between Universes would also be a time machine. This film is not smart, and has not even thought about it. It's more worried about animated gloop that counts holes in the human body.... just like the cartoons that these Rick and Morty guys write.
@@summertyme5748spot on bro. time working differently in the quantum realm was a factor that had a major affect on scott, being that he missed years of cassie’s life while being trapped there. i think the endgame team handled it pretty well, but my problem with the MCU introducing time travel is that now you just open up a can of worms for all of your movies to be inconsistent because of how differently each writing team utilizes time travel. like for one, if time works differently in the quantum realm, why has Janet aged at the same rate as Hank? In Ant-Man and the Wasp, Janet and Hank are both an old couple, which nullifies Scott being trapped for five hours, and five years passing on Earth.
In terms of Evangeline Lily's politics. I find it particularly funny that when Hank makes the joke about socialism, we just cut to the Wasp with a particularly disgusted face, it seemed like the editor poking fun at that
Evangeline did nothing wrong and neither did Letitia Wright. Separating the art from the artist is a process that should be reserved for someone like Roman Polanski, who sexually assaulted an underage girl, or Klaus Kinski. Evangeline went to a rally. Get over it. 😂
@@artgenix8052 yes, because that's what I'm implying, and not that just because someone may disagree with you on one thing doesn't mean they embrace wholeheartedly every political idea you oppose with zero evidence. People are just so eager to label and hate.
The script here was so scattershot, pointless and aimless it felt so pointless. There were no arcs or lessons learned for any character. The only important scenes were with Janet and kang who coincidentally give the best performances but this didn’t even need to be a whole film. Hope had absolutely nothing to do too.
Everytime that Janet said "I cant tell you", I was like there better be a reason that she can't tell the other characters whats going on. But there was no reason! Also, I was already saddened when MODOK first showed up, since Marvel likes to kill villians all the time, and yeah he died. I wouldve liked to see him in more projects
Completely agree on both points here. Having a character repeatedly say "I can't tell you" is such an antiquated, forced way of trying to set up a mystery. Same thing with her reaction to Cassie's quantum realm signal device. Janet can't just take the time to explain to everybody "Hey, this is a bad idea, please don't do that because blah blah blah." No, she has to scream and freak out and overreact. And as far as MODOK, I'm not personally a comic fan so I don't know what his whole deal is usually, though I know he's a bit of a goofball in general. And him being in this movie definitely felt more like... checking him off the list, just to appease fans and so Marvel can be like "Hey, he was technically in one of these movies finally so uhhh we don't really have to bother with him anymore." Especially since I'm sure it's a pain to even have that character work in any live action capacity. Like the CGI for him was not great, and I can't even imagine how they would go about making him with practical effects. (Lol who am I kidding, Marvel doing practical effects?) The other writing aspect that bugged me, though it's minor, was a story beat early on before everyone gets sucked into the quantum realm. While they're eating pizza, Cassie makes a comment about how Scott hasn't really been doing anything lately. It's insinuated that he's just been kind of resting on his laurels since Endgame, which I think is actually a really interesting concept that could be explored. Like, yeah he fought Thanos and saved the universe so it's totally reasonable that he might feel a little aimless after that. But nope, that plot thread is IMMEDIATELY dropped and never mentioned again.
They actually had Kang capture Janet in the movie already so that should have been the reason. They should have had Janet say something like "I have to catch you guys up on everything. Let's just meet this old friend of mine in the bar/restaurant and then we'll talk" and then she gets captured after that. That would have been much better, because it's not a weird hand-waving thing where they just don't elaborate. She actually would have intended to talk about it, and just didn't get to because she got taken away.
They didn't spend a ton of time on it but they said (and showed!) Wasp having taken over her dad's company and has been using the science for humanitarian efforts like reversing deforestation, etc. which I imagine is a huge help in a post blip world. Also we can assume she's spent some time with Cassie and maybe helped build her suit.
Yes I commented the same thing so trying to say Hope wasn't doing anything between movies is like bruh maybe you were in the bathroom during that part of the movie lol
The part about Hope helping give a teen develop advanced tech that has military application seems extremely dumb... It's way more logical that the teen secretly developed it... But that is also an illogical concept since PymTech is supposed to be crazy advanced .. .. I don't buy for 1 second that Cassie developed her tech on her own... And I just can't believe that any of the adults helped her develop her tech without realizing how ridiculously irresponsible it would be to give that tech to a teen...
@@CMMaddenJr uhmmm that was another example.... Tony was being irresponsible there... And if you want to tear into him for it... You would be justified... So wait a second... Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing ? .. you just added more weight to my original points.... MCU at times has multiple examples of brilliant responsible ppl doing absolutely dumb, irresponsible stuff.... Yeah bad writing.... But I guess we ignore that so we can tag along for the ride...
@@claudewinters2091 Uh, no. You're weighing decisions made by characters to IRL standards. This is a world where not only do dangerous super powered beings cause harm but the world is invaded by outside forces, multiple times. In one of those cases wiping out half off all life in existence. It's like in a post apocalyptic world like TWD or The Last of Us where a character who by our standards is probably too young to own/wield a gun but that's the world they're living in. Cassie is under the guidance of two extremely intelligent scientists and the influence of Hope and Scott which are excellent role models. They didn't throw high powered technology to a random kid on the street. She also clearly had not used it before so it's likely they were in training and had it for emergencies.
I personally REALLY enjoyed this movie. I love physics and in class we are currently handling quantum mechanics and the visual interpretation of the particle in a box-model and the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg is amazing!
I didn't like how Janet's big dark secret was that she trusted someone evil and then turned on him the very second she realized he was a bad guy. How is that so bad? How is it her fault that he lied to her? I think they should have made her secret that she found him, joined him, found out who he really was and still worked with him because she wanted to go home to her daughter. She could have been in the realm for decades, maybe even longer than the others knew. Gone slightly crazy. That would have been a nice foil for Scott, who also has to chose on whether to save his daughter or the world. She even could have turned on Kang at some point in the past and done the whole macguffin blow up thing. But there would have been real blood on her hands. This movie was to nice, all in all. Nobody evil but the bad guy, nobody dies but the bad guy. (Except for the people without a face....or only a face.)
I think the big problem was they tried making this a big epic movie and didn't make it an Ant-Man movie. It has the same core, but it doesn't have the same heart. I do agree that Kang probably didn't have to be in this movie, but I think what they're doing with Kang is interesting as they've now shown this character Spoilering twice so far. I do think they have a way of bringing the power back to kang with that end credits scene. It does make me think that something else big is coming though, that Kang isn't the only threat being built
I just don’t think Kang should have been defeated. It makes so sense. If some oversized Ants can take him down then wtf is he gonna do against the Multiversal Avengers
When we saw that first scene of MODOK just absolutely demolishing the resistance fighters before we saw MODOKs face, I was thinking "Oh so they're gonna play him weirdly straight and do a Guardians with him as Ronan and Kang as Thanos?" and almost immediately after thinking that we saw MODOKs face and I realized "nope I guess I'm wrong." I agree in that Kang losing to Ant Man of all people makes him seem like a pushover, but my biggest fear is what the council of Kangs may mean for Kang Dynasty. I'm worried we will get another Ultron situation, where the Avengers are just fighting numerous nearly identical Kangs that may as well be drones. I know I'm really jumping the gun with this prediction, and I feel like Marvel has learned from Infinity War and Endgame and even Civil War that the most interesting fights are when two or more people with cool powers are clashing, but idk, I got major Age of Ultron vibes from the post credit scene
I want to point out… Kang lost to advanced civilization of ants after being trapped in the quantum realm and being betrayed by MODOK. Scott did not beat Kang
And not for a moment to you believe it. Emma Furhmann had the same line in Endgame and reduced the audience to tears. I liked the previous two AntMan film's from Reed. I really - do - not - like the MCU's phase 4 and 5 writers. The Rick and Morty ones specifically. I don't use this term often but - they just suck.
I don’t know if I want Eric ogrady this quick. I don’t think I can see Eric being antman while Scott is still alive. I wanna focus on stature and her integration with the young avengers but as for antman characters separate from her, I want at least one more Scott and hope adventure, maybe Nadia’s introduction as the new wasp and maybe make Eric her endgame boyfriend and such. As for modok, I like the idea of modok continuously being introduced and killed off through the multiverse. I liked this version, not perfect but I liked him and I’d see him play it again in a different universe. But I do agree, I’d rather a modok center villain story but I understand that, because thanos did that exact “work in the background” thing while making Loki and ultron take center stage, they might not want to seemingly tread the same path
I feel the only reason kang was defeated was because of modok and the mechia ants, like it busted his suit. But even then, richards was kicking the shit out of lang.
@@guccifer764 Well to be fair... Why would Immortus or Rama-Tut be in the Quantum Realm??? Outside of there.... Did you forget that ants are ANTS?? I'm sure me, you, Immortus and even an elderly woman could defeat an army of ants in the real world with a bottle of Clorox disinfectant spray lol
They should've had everyone refer to "The Conqueror," only for the conqueror to actually be MODOK, with Kang later revealed to be the one pulling the strings behind the scenes
I really liked Modok. Made me wanna return to the show. I also think the point of Kang in the MCU is to have him pop up and do things more than once as opposed to Thanos who didn't take matters into his own hands for quite some time. The threat of Kang is really in the fact that there are almost always more.
I thought the characters were easy enough to see, but I did catch it in 3D, so that may have affected how easy it is to focus on certain things. I didn’t like the face work on MODOK, though. Felt too much of the time like a face projection on a 3D object
My biggest issue is that at the end of the movie, basically nothing changed, and the MCU wasn't advanced at all... Kang came and went, and was not terribly problematic for our heroes...most of his threat was in exposition, and other than being said to be a threat, he didn't loom as large as Thanos did and would become. Just another generic conqueror with delusions of grandeur. They clearly needed to bring Kang into the films, because the visibility for Kang was pretty minor compared to the reach of the Loki show, but he went back to being trapped, and will have to sneak or fight or trick his way out - which we know will happen again, and then we just have another version of this movie.
I believe that this Kang is the ultimate Kang the Conqueror and already knows how everything will unfold. He already said he needed Scott and his pym particles and knows that the Kang Council can detect him if he were to leave the Quantum realm as well as remain within it. So Quantumania Kang needed everyone to believe he is dead but in reality warped with the time engine becoming one with time itself to show up and crush the Kang Council and The Avengers / other heroes. After all he is dressed most accurately to THE Kang from the comics and on my second viewing of the movie, I noticed that Kang already knew who Scott was but played dumb when first approaching Scott. He also played dumb to Janet when he first crash landed and was trapped in the Quantum realm. So if you view the movie as Kang already knows the events of time sort of like He Who Remains, then he truly needed Scott to forge with the time engine similar to He Who Remains needing both Loki and Sylvie to kill him thus restarting everything in the multiverse on a time loop. Kang will return.
so i agree/think this "kang the conqueror" is the same guy as "he who remains". but how you have me wondering if there was any shared symbols between the fortress stuff in quantum realm, and the castle at the......."he who remains" place (i can't remember what his castle was called). because.........really? is kang going to be that stupid where he slams ant man on his power device? put the only guy who can fist it shrinking particles? the one thing he just got it fixed from?........or was that him knowing it's what he needed to do. .........oh hell, now i really like this idea. in the final fight. scott was about to jump through the portal, to go home. instead, kang blasted him, preventing him from going home. kang, could have easily also just jumped through after them and LEFT the quantum realm. he did not. instead, he blasted scott, and kept him in the quantum realm a little bit longer. i think he wanted his engine to get more pym particles.
We’ve had two Kangs so far and both have been killed off immediately. He Who Remains’ felt necessary, it unleashed all the other Kangs to set up everything coming up. But now with this one it just feels like they want to lean in too hard on all his different variants. Why should we fear any individual Kang? Yeah that’s just who the character is, you defeat/kill one another will just take his place, but at least let us sit with one for more than 45 minutes (if that). Have him win outside of flashbacks and exposition!
Loki and Magneto are two villains that don't win every time in their movies. It doesn't take anything away from them as villains. Though they usually lose, Loki and Magneto are great villains in every movie we've seen them in. And villains are not supposed to win LOL. The only villain that actually "won" in a superhero movie was Thanos. Sorry to break it to you... But every superhero movie you've ever watched, besides Infinity War.......... The villain did not win....
@@CharlieAnnSon that’s completely true, winning isn’t what makes a compelling villain. Loki and Magneto are great examples of this, you can even add in ones like Killmonger to that list. Using Thanos as an example, what I was trying to get to is that we never doubted he was a threat. His plans didn’t succeed, but he never truly lost. We knew what he was doing even if we didn’t exactly understand why he was doing it until Infinity War. Imagine if every time Thanos showed up in a movie he got his ass handed to him. Guardians? They beat him to a bloody pulp with the power stone. Age of Ultron post credits? He’s limping and coughing up blood barely escaping a fight. Ragnarok post credits? His ship is barely holding together and is being chased by the Nova Corps. Infinity War? Right as he gets the last stone Thor goes for the head. The end. Even in that scenario we still know the character we’re following and what he wants, but that wouldn’t stop it from feeling inevitable. Of course they were going to beat him, they already did every other time. This is what I think they’ve done with Kang so far. Constantly getting dunked on. He feels like the Black Order did, kinda just there to get killed off. We’ve had two major Kangs so far, both now dead. What we’re their goals? To fight all other Kangs? If so then why are they all coming together in the post-credits scene? To win the love of Renslayer? Surely their own universes would have her in them, and if not, why not just go to a universe without a Kang? As he has been portrayed so far, Kang makes no sense. Why have him in Quantamania at all when you could just use MODOK. Is he also going to be the villain of The Marvels? The next Spider-Man? Secret Invasion? Guardians 3? Was it going to be Nathaniel all along in Coven of Chaos? Marvel had a great character being played by a phenomenal actor, but they have no idea what to do with him. If he keeps showing up in everything just to get killed off he’s not going to be thought of as a threat. Loki went through the same thing until he was more or less a hero. It worked for him because he wasn’t meant to be THE villain. He wasn’t the overarching threat that everyone had to come together for even a small chance to defeat. Kang is, but he doesn’t feel like it and that honestly sucks. Killing him off so he can come back again in the next one was done so well with Loki that it’s weird they’re struggling to do the same with Kang. Having the main threat show up in multiple self-contained properties to connect them all together in a single story was done so well with Thanos yet Kang feels like a hollow imitation. Yes we all know Kang will get defeated in the end and the MCU will move on to the next big thing (my money is on Doom or Galactus, even though I wanna see it be Annihilus), but while he’s here he should at least pose a threat
@@CharlieAnnSon also you’re conveniently forgetting a few extremely good examples of comic book movies where the villain/antagonist wins. The Dark Knight might not jump out at you immediately as doing this but almost all of Joker’s plans succeed, even when he gets captured. He destroys the white knight Harvey Dent, and breaks Batman’s morality and reputation to the point it puts him out of commission for years. And then there’s Watchmen’s “I did it 36 minutes ago” twist. Completely destroying the trope of saving the day at the last minute. There’s nothing that can be done at that point, Ozymandias has already won. So next time you try to be condescending to strangers on the internet for having a different opinion to you, at least make sure to get your facts straight. Sorry to break it to you, but you should just try talking to people normally ;)
I agree with you, people keep saying it doesn't matter if he is dead cause another one will replace him, but that shows the main evil of the SAGA, not movie or phase, the saga is disposable. The worst thing is that they could make him win here because the stakes weren't high, Kang only wanted to escape the Quantum Realm and after that fight the Council so he wasn't an immediate threat to 616. They could make him win here and defeat him in a different movie
@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu The beloved Thanos lasted for Infinity War and was murdered roughly 10 minutes into Endgame. He was replaced by a an alternate Thanos who had no relation to our heroes very late into the movie. I doubt they’d keep replacing Kang with new Kangs, but if they do, remember Thanos did it first ;) And I KNOW you love Thanos lol
I think the strength of the first Ant Man is the espionage and the juxtaposing with Pym's tragedy, here Hank is in the background looking like confused old man and the spy stuff is not present, it's just him running away from an embarrassing MODOK.
Hmm.. Jonathan Majors was amazing. Menacing as Kang the Exile, very different from his The One at the End of Everything variant. But I found too much unnecessary out of place humor, like after Modok's sacrifice. And Modok looks like the guy from Shark Boy and Lava Girl. And I know he is quite silly in the comics, but he can still be a dramatic character if done right. But Modok was a joke in Quantumania, his face should have been more.. inhuman. LIKE THE COMICS And then Ant-Man was... okay. Same with everything else.
If Ant-Man/Wasp ended the movie stranded in the Quantum Realm and with Kang being confirmed as alive, I'd be satisfied. As funny as the ending was, we needed bigger consequences, and that's the biggest one besides including a death or too.
Regarding Hope, they make it pretty clear she's become very business focused and is using Pym tech for conservation purposes so I feel that's fleshed out enough without focusing too much on it, though I do agree as Wasp she doesn't do much.
Damn you're totally right about MODOK should be the main villain of this movie. I can imagine either MODOK (still alive and went back to Kang to tell him he failed) or one of Kang's goons delivering the bad news, and we see Kang's back against the viewer or just showing a bit of him, and finally in the end showing his face. Maybe even show his force powers thing he did to MODOK, throwing things around in a flick of his finger. It's akin to how they revealed a bit of Thanos in Avengers 1 end credit scene.
On that MODOK thing - just to offer a contrasting perspective, this version hit on both of the big qualities I see as essential to him: that sort of melodramatic struggle between machine + man, whether he's a bad dude *because* of his robotification, or whether his disfiguration is just a good reflection of who is is inside - and a really earnest *loser vibe*. I think Quantumania managed to capture both of these - and, by extension, that ineffable quality of MODOKness Maybe my MODOK bar is lower! But I came out of the theatre pretty satisfied with this particular dumb floating head.
You forgot to talk about Jonathan Majors! I think his performance was kind of incredible. The scenes he shared with MP were, for me anyway, someone studying acting, really revelatory - especially because these are very silly characters, very silly situations, and I really felt like everyone sold their respective bits so well and so believably. That shit is way harder than I think people give actors credit for. Maybe that deserves its own video.
While I love the ”One Small Change” videos, I completely understand why you don’t do them anymore. I want more of them, and feel like its the best format for a movie review but please continue to make the content that makes you feel good.
I think in the future we'll find out that not only did Kang not lose, he actually manipulated events to get exactly what he wanted while making it look like he lost. But I agree, in the moment it makes Kang look pretty weak.
The only issue I ever had with the Ant-Man movies is the inconsistency with the Pym Particle stuff. Like it was explained that it changes the spaces within the atom to reduce the space as a whole and not the mass so a 2 ton regular sized car will still weigh 2 ton when shrunk to toy size, and the first time Scott ever shrinks, he breaks the tub where he lands then after that its all out the window.
I liked it a lot more than most people seem to, but I have never been a fan of villains dying. Which is... well it sounds kinda dumb, but I would have loved to see this giant stupid face floating around in the real world would be hilarious. And yeah, as much as I loved Kang, MODOK would have made a perfect villain. That being said, isn't Kang not supposed to be super powered, just super smarted? And I was really hoping Ant-Man would get stuck in the Quantum Realm. Although having another movie about finding someone that got stuck there would be an odd plot to use... again. They should just hire you. Or steal your ideas.
The “I don’t have to win, we just both have to lose” line is very good I think and could be expanded on and even be the theme of the film. They show in the film that Kang has and does always win, the only time he’s lost it seems is when Janet messed up his timedrive ball thing. He’s not losing to the rebels he’s just not bothered with dealing with them seriously. Then you have Scott, who is a bit of a buffoon and does have wins and can do well, especially with the ant man team. But he’s not the greatest and they often tell us that. So that’s how you show why Scott is the one to beat him, he can lose he’s used to it and he will do it to save the people he loves. Wish they did more with that but yeah.
Love your content Nando, and I knew you'd have the better take on the movie as everyone seems to be acting like it's some kind of crime against cinema but I gotta say I completely disagree about the action / colors being unreadable. I can't think of a single moment where I was confused or when characters blended into the background. And I think it's strange to complain that Janet Hank and Hope getting grey and brown cloaks makes them fade into the BG when you just said that the BG is red/yellow/purple/black! I think you articulated your point well, and I agree about more intentional lighting/framing, but at no point in this movie did I feel like I misunderstood the action on screen or that characters were lost into the BG. I think your MODOK issues are personal, which is totally fair, and I do think he can come back, I'm not even convinced that they really "killed" him. He could show up in another movie and they could handwave like the freedom fighters brought him back to life or something. I've seen so many people say the same thing as you about Kang being beaten by Ant-Man as a bad thing, but like in this movie, I think it works, he's such an existential threat had they let him live they'd have to address it in the next immediate movie or something like the danger is too great. And to the larger point, I think beating him now allows for a more dramatic and personal rise again later. I think your Thanos comparison is a bit of a false equivalence. A) We don't know that Kang is dead, even in the movie, Scott begins to question the legitimacy of their win. B) I think it would've been great to do that with Thanos (minus killing him) because then when he bumps into the guardians again in Infinity War it's 10x more personal. It's so interesting to see the pendulum swing from "I wish they didn't kill the villains! They could come back and it'd be more exciting/dramatic/they could explore them more!" to "Dang, I wish Ant-Man hadn't defeated Kang. Makes Kang look weak and now when he comes back in an avengers movie he's going to be less of a threat." ALL I've ever wanted is the villains to stay alive and come back MORE threatening! This is a perfect opportunity to do so! Seems like such an odd complaint/criticism to me. Ultimately I just feel like with this movie people are missing the forest for the trees. I found it to be a fun, trippy, 70s sci-fi visual feast for the eyes with the heart and adventure of a 90s family film. It was a ton of fun, seemed like a logical place for the ant-man series to go, and even though everyone cries about people not dying because it "lowers the stakes", there's now room for more fun ant-man action with Paul Rudd and the whole gang. I appreciate your detailed description of your issues with the movie - as most EVERYTHING I've seen is someone going, "It's sucked. It's bad. It's Cringe" with no further explanation. I really really enjoyed the movie and the world and the action (The Multiversal Engine snatch-and-grab sequence was so up my alley, I loved it. made me feel like a kid again) so I've just been surprised and confused by the reaction online.
they could've sold kang more if they really did commit to killing off scott or even just leaving him stuck in the quantum realm. I was surprised the heroes pretty much walked away unscathed, given the advertising and how it built up kang.
I got back from the film a few hours ago and almost 7 minutes in: THANK YOU! So far I've seen nobody talk about how bad the Quantum realm looked and I felt alone in it from the reviews I've been binging since I left the theatre. Here's a comment I made on a previous video: *Idk if it's just because I'm an artist and animation student, but I'm not seeing anyone talk about my biggest issue with the film: the visuals. Before any hackles are risen, I think the film was beautifully animated and impressive on a technical level, but I think the overall result is fugly. First of all, I felt like the actors felt so out of place in their environment. I could just FEEL the screens and backdrops and empty space they were pretending to interact with despite their skillful performances. For most of the first half, they were in large open areas with lots of vertical obstructions like trees and pillars, and yet no matter where they were, it was the same sterile, artificial orange ass lamp that lit their every move. It did not change, did not reflect their surroundings, nor diffuse or brighten depending on their surroundings. The basics of ambient occlusion were lost on this film. I also hate how fucking dark this film was. Maybe I just have the eyes of an old lady despite being only 26, but for years I only work in bright light as to not strain my eyes. I've never had an issue where a film, despite its tone or setting, made my eyes tired; this film did that. The values (what colours look like if you put them in grayscale) on screen at all times except a few were terrible. If someone put a grayscale filter over this film it would mostly be near blacks and muddy grays, with maybe a few bright spots. I wanted to reach out to the screen with a flashlight to actually see things. I also hated how much poop and mud brown was everywhere. The set pieces and designs were great, but not the colour. The colour was terrible. If they went through the trouble of having artificial suns and light sources, they could have done a lot more. All in all, the colour palette for this film, sucked.*
Well designed set pieces that just felt like set pieces. You can tell when actors are interacting with digital assets which is never something I felt about mjolnir or cap's shield. And the plant life and environment felt very plastic/rubbery. There was one moment where I noticed the ambient orange just wasn't showing up on Kang at all. His hair was perfectly flat black against a foggy orange atmosphere. Definitely taken out by the visuals.
Between MODOK in this movie and Egghead getting written off as part of Ghost's backstory in the last one, what is it with the Ant-Man movie burning through Marvel's mad scientist villains?
Always feel good to be validated (especially by a favourite TH-camr)!!! As soon as the film was done, I said to my partner “Why the hell was Kang in this movie?”
Honestly, I wonder if the "Kang Dynasty" title is a misdirect for Adam Warlock to become the big bad. Might be a good idea now with the recent news about Majors.
I love Nando's takes and his content is always excellent and enjoyable. However, having JUST come out of this movie thinking this was a truly awesome MCU movie on par with Wakanda Forever and No Way Home...I can't help but think Nando's grips with this movie all stem from his disappointment that his theories didn't coalesce into reality. MODOK was well used as a callback to the OG movie. A teenage Cassie defeating him was superb and on point. Remember, Darren tried to kill Cassie when she was little, it's even stated again as a reminder at the beginning of the movie for the audience. Kang's presence lays so much groundwork for Kang Dynasty and everything leading up to it. Thanos' one issue before Infinity War is that we got basically nothing but teasers for him before IW and I think Kang's early integration into the Saga is a sound and necessary course correction from a definitive flaw of the Infinity Saga. The political takes on Wasp's actor seems just kinda petty. Especially since they have some fun with her looking annoyed as her father waxes off about Ants and Socialism. Having a conservative adult daughter with a wacky fellow traveler dad is both very amusing and adorable to boot. I won't try and make some argument that is the best movie in the MCU yet, but I can't help but feel like Nando is just objectively wrong outright by saying this deserves to be grouped with the likes of the "lower half" MCU movies.
@oscar Sure he does, but this video isn't him saying him saying: "I'm really disappointed my Reed Richards/MODOK centric theory was just fanfic.." It's just a lot of officiating in the guise of a referre on a movies merits as they are. Again as things stand this was the transfiguration of a GotG style movie into a proper Star Wars movie better than Lucasfilm could have done it these days.
Had to wait a week to catch the movie with all my work buddies (we work at a comic shop, so new Marvel stuff is basically a business expense for us), here's what I walked away from the movie feeling: The major problem with the movie is that no one was talking, and even when they were, they weren't saying anything. Put less snarkily: there weren't any meaningful emotional subplots, and a LOT of the narrative and its obstacles were predicated on, in essence, just a lack of communication. You touch on the first part of that with the "why has Scott become a defender of the status quo/I guess he learned a lesson" bit at the end: the movie, in the opening, acted like it was going to set up a couple interesting sub-plots, then it didn't...and then it acted like it was paying those non-existent subplots off. - Cassie is getting arrested because she's at protests for housing, and Scott is against that, because now he has his perfect life, and he's trying not to think too hard or question things. They go to the Quantum Realm, he has one minor argument with Cassiie about helping the Natives, then he ends up helping them anyway. - In his opening narration, Scott goes on and on about how important all the stuff Hope is doing for the world is, while he's 'retired', and even his "fans" don't actually know who he is. which feels like it's setting up the question of whether Scott's time is past/Hope is more valuable to the world, which gets 'paid-off' by her choosing to come back through the portal to save/be with him...but the two of them have only exchanged...what, 4 lines this movie? AS to the second, a bunch of the core conflicts and issues of the movie stem from people just...not saying things, often for seemingly no reason. How do the heroes end up in the Quantum Realm? Janet refused to talk about her time there, and just ASSUMED that the family of super-scientists, thieves, and covert agents would have no curiosity about the realm beneath their feet, so no one in the family told her. Hell, it's not even just the heroes: The Kang in this movie is a chronocidal conqueror...but he is also, at least according to him, the preferrable option, and the movie NEVER SAYS HE'S WRONG. Like, yeah, he's going to destroy timelines, ending trillions of lives...but as far as we know, so are the thousands of other Kangs, and if they were scared enough of him to exile him out of time, then presumably he's potentially capable of stopping them. And the movie, again, kind of agrees with him, giving Scott a narration freak-out at the end that "oh no, have we doomed everyone?"...and then it just says "Eh, we'll figure it out." Hell, after the probability storm scene, Kang refuses to tell Scott where Cassie is...as a bit? Like, just tell the dude you're betraying him. Which in turn makes Kang's speech at the end weird: "You could have gone home." Dude, you had his daughter. I know you don't do the One Small Change stuff any more, but it's particularly jarring because I think just a couple lines here and there could have made these ideas snap into focus. If I have some spare time, I'll try and sketch out what I think would have fixed it, basically without 'changing' any of the movie, just, like, making a couple scenes longer.
I did really like this movie, it really did everything I wanted from it. I really liked Ant Man 1 but did not enjoy Ant Man and The Wasp. I really like how this took place in the Quantem realm, for a place they always talked about it was so nice to finally explore it. The focus on Janet was super appreciated- it really let her shine (Even if the Wasp didn't get to shine too much in this which was unfortunate, she still had some good moments). Really liked Scott in this movie too; that scene where he threatened Kang for hurting Cassie allowed him to be a level of serious he doesn't usually get to be. While Kang getting defeated may not work the best for him, I was really sold on how strong of an opponent he was. The sound effects on his punches on Scott were brutal, and his tech was crazy. When I saw the stadium of them I did really wonder how the Avengers would beat him. I liked the finale with the ants swarming to defeat Kang, that felt very fitting to me as an end to the Ant Man trilogy. I also knew Modok would be divisive, and I can understand why you'd be a bit bummed with his portrayal here. I did like the concept of tying Modok back to Darren from Ant Man 1, helps adds some nice throughlines for this trilogy, and I liked how Cassie was the one to take him down, considering what happened in Ant Man 1. But the real standout to me was seriously the probability scene. I LOVED THAT. That scene alone clears anything in Ant Man 2 for me IMO. That all said, I do think Dr Strange 2 was better than this move and possibly the best movie of phase 4. I really liked how that movie handled wanda and dr strange.
Love your vids Nando! I actually thought most of the performances were fine outside of Majors who I thought was exceptional! No more ‘One Small Change’ ?!?!?! Need that explanation video 😆😅
OH MY GOSH, I thought I was crazy! I loved the movie, but it was so like, the same tone. It all felt so dark. It makes me want to see it on Disney Plus, with the brightness up on my tv
It just hit me, that Quantummania would have been a better property if it had been a Disney+ series. Not a long series, maybe like 6 episodes of about 30-45 minutes each
I think the reason they let antman beat him is the same reason iron man beat him to basically set up Kang Dynasty because that only really happens if the Kang's consider the heroes a threat
^ That doesn't make sense. Kang becomes a threat *if HE ESCAPES* - Not if he is dead. What are the Avengers supposed to be a threat to? All Antman did is prevent THEIR prisoner from escaping. Yes, and..... There is zero logic in the Kangs concluding that because ants killed their captive Kang, that the Avengers can and will travel the multiverse - and....do what???? Better writers would have used more imagination. Instead of killing Kang, send him back to the 21st Century. [Hank could be killed though trying to stop Kang] Send Cassie to a different timeline than Scott - so she loses her dad again and does not know if he is alive or not. [jeezus - use TIME in your story, about time traveling warlord, Mcfly!] If you really want to create pathos - have an end credit scene where Cassie reunites with her mom {who isn't in this film as is} - but CASSIE is now now an old woman - who has spent her entire life trying to recue and re-unite with her dad, whereas her mom - only now even finds out that she was trapped in the Quantum Realm [maybe for a day] but having come back - as an old woman. Those are just some ideas. Note the common denominator - they all make this film, have a point, they actually advance the story, disrupt the status quo and create a cliffhanger. Is Scott alive or dead? Will Cassie ever see him again? Kang is now let loose in the 21st Century and he knows the Avengers are problem. The other Kangs *realize that HE HAS ESCAPED* - and THAT is what sets off their alarm. So the Kangs are coming...for Kang! Why are they upset that Kang is dead anyway? Shit they trapped him in the Quantum Realm - what do they really care if he died there???? This film ends with this revelation: *OH no, nothing i did mattered at all* - Scott. lol. Writing of this film is bad.
@@summertyme5748 It might be a logistics nightmare though. There's no guarantee Ant-man 4 is coming. Would you like some of these questions resolved possibly offscreen(kind of undermining the point of having these plot details in the first place)? In Captain America Civil War, they were able to have Cap and Iron Man leave each other because it was planned they would reunite in Endgame. Sadly Ant-man/Scott may not get that extra consideration. Though I agree I wish we had your ideas in the movie for sure.
Cassie was the one thing I was worried about the whole time, and while I didn’t hate her and I liked her more than I thought I would, she had some lines that were fucking terrible. Like when she constantly shuts on her dad for actually doing good in life and being happy
I enjoyed the movie a lot more than most but I get your complaints entirely. I think the acting was on point throughout, its issues seems to be more related to direction and writing.
I agree MODOK should be more grotesque and I’d also love to see a more substantial take like you mention but I’m also just at a point with these movies where I just saw a mostly comics accurate MODOK complete with buzzsaws in an MCU movie which felt impossible even 5 or 6 years into the MCU, and that’s cool to me. I don’t see why we couldn’t get more MODOK, if it’s something Kang did to Cross there’s no reason he couldn’t create another, or hey doesn’t even have to be Kang. Do I think they’ll do it? Less optimistic there but maybe Secret Wars?
genuine question for anyone that's seen the movie, is the guy running behind Cassie at 8:16 real? like is that actually in the movie? because that looks *really* bad
Nice critique. I was surprised to see William Harper Jackson as well. And you're the second person I watched who also had a problem with Kang being defeated in the movie. 🙂👍
I read the original ending & that was way better than what they ended up going with, Modok was bad all around, but the movie is still decent, it wasn’t “garbage” or anything
It kinda felt like all the dialogue in act 2 was written by chat GPT? Or like they put in place-holder lines and time-sink scenes and forgot to go back and replace them with actual writing and plot connections?
What happened to Ghost from Ant man 2? Like she needed quantum energy or something. That's why he was in the quantum realm before endgame. So yeah did she just evaporate?
The Quantum Realm looked like what would happen if you poured out all the condiments in your fridge into a bowl. Grape jelly, mustard, relish. It was unappealing CGI glop.
I haven’t seen it anywhere but Luis and the crew should have absolutely been there at the end. I’m sorry. That felt weird that they weren’t there. Pay Michael Pena. Pay TI.
That was my big thing is it felt like half the cast was missing, Luis and the crew were such an integral part of the other movies especially the first one that it made bo sense that they were just not there at all. Another person i found weird was a complete lack of Cassie's mom and stepdad, cause they were also no where to be found which was odd because the first and second movie it really felt like Cassies mom wanted Scott to succeed and wanted him to apart of Cassies life like she was and it was strange that they were missing. And finally, what is Hope and Scott's relationship cause Cassie randomly calling Hank grandpa really felt weird cause like are they supposed to be married cause its never mentioned and she doesn't refer to Hope as any sort of mother figure but Hank gets Grandpa and it's just really odd
Scott's arc was the biggest thing that bugged (heh) me about the movie. He didn't really learn anything about activism or doing the right thing, his entire focus was saving Cassie and helping the resistance was just a nice bonus to that. I walked out of the movie thinking it was fun and perfectly watchable, but pretty much nothing more than that.
Nando, please read this! I wonder what you think! Here’s my one small change: I think modok should’ve been the main villain. Kang should’ve manipulated everyone like he manipulated Janet at the beginning. Janet doesn’t know Kang. Instead, Kang is the leader of the rebels against modok. Maybe he goes by Nathaniel. We can get a taste of kang’s personality/conqueror’s mentality even without his tech. They all help Kang repair his ship’s power core but he needs Scott to steel something for him. That way, Scott can still have a similar probability zone scene. He steals it for kang, but he would think he’s helping him beat modok instead of being blackmailed to do it. Kang then gets his tech/suit back and easily defeats modok. The ant fam realizes what they’ve done and then they could “trap” him in the quantum realm the same way Janet did, by smashing his ship’s power source with pym particles. He’d still have his suit so it would only be temporary. It could end with a similar portal scene as zs justice league, when they have a stare down with darkseid.
This could have worked as a straight up Hank and Janet adventure a lot better. Of all the failings of this movie, one of the biggest is that Reed and Loveness simply could not balance ping-ponging back and forth between the two groups of characters. Most likely could have dropped the resistance movement Scott and Cassie join. As entertaining as William Jackson Harper basically being MCU Chidi was for me, that entire group of characters added nothing but padding. Really, this thing needed to borrow less from Star Wars, and steal more from Total Recall.
So many of my favorite reviewers are down on this movie in ways that I totally hear and understand yet just don't agree with. That's actually kinda neat! I think most of it is boiling down to expectations for this movie combined with the increasing weight of the overall MCU IP. Honestly I think I've enjoyed movies like this a lot more than I expect to in large part because of you guys being so critical. I'm not in love with any of them, but I've been very appreciative of them even while noting where they easily could (and certainly should) have been better.
I really liked the space opera vibe this movie had and wish they leant into that more. The creature designs and technology was great, those slime vehicles felt so different than anything that I'd seen before which really helped the Quantum Realm stand out as a different place. The use of green screen and the Marvel cgi sheen is an issue that is starting to bug me more and more. I don't have an issue with Kang being the main villain I just wish he would've won in some way in the end. Also the end credit scene made me so excited to see more Johnathan Majors in the MCU.
You finally nailed why I did not like this movie. I knew I didn't like the plot much but that wasn't necessarily that big of an issue (marvel has not impressed me since NWH), I physically did not enjoy it, I was tired after watching, and it 100% was because of the colour. It felt like trying to see during late dusk. Those weird few moments before it is truly dark where everything has the same colour and depth is difficult to estimate and shapes all kinda blend together. But instead of a few minutes it was for a lot longer and I had to try to see people fight. I left with a small headache behind my eyes. Also them needing orange slices after growing made no sense to me... they might be bigger than the rest of the people there and relative to the space but they are still so so so tiny. If they originally shrunk to the size they were when they were big in the movie they would not need orange slices, they SHRUNK, THEY ARE SMALL Oh AND ALSO ALSO THEY SHOULD HAVE LOST. Scott should have died protecting his family and they should have lost. The Kang all the other Kangs are afraid of is defeated by ants... imagine Thanos was defeated by ants before ever meeting the avengers...yeah...k
MODOK was definitely handled very poorly in this movie. I liked the decision to make Darren Cross deformed into MODOK and the design he was given I thought was fairly good for what the comic design is. I agree with you that MODOK was too subdued as a character in terms of expression (maybe Corey Stoll still could have played MODOK but just became more facially deformed) and the goofiness of the character was taken a bit too far (jokes during interesting or dramatic moments).
I made a video year before last about why I was nervous about Kang being the main villain in Ant-Man 3 and kinda disappointed that I turned out to be right?? Kang just felt like too big a villain for Ant-Man (no pun intended). And having him beat who's supposed to be the Big Bad for the next couple of phases feels like a weird start for Phase 5
I need to see Kang at full power with no battery issues. If they keep bringing him up at half juice or running out of energy what’s the point of bringing him? Also they could’ve just had Kang set up MODOK with the suit and an army then just dip out halfway thru like Ronin and Thanos
that's it, even videos about movies i purposefully skipped are insanely entertaining and informative. nando is one of the most clever minds in the superhero fandom and whoever gives him a contract first, will win. it's up to feige and gunn (it's gunn who is the "boss" of the dceu now, right?)
Its the Voldemort effect. By the time we got to the last book, we’d seen Voldemort beaten so many times, it felt like it wasn’t a big deal. Dolores Umbridge ended up being a far more interesting villain overall for the series.
![เบิ้ล ปทุมราช - อ้ายกินดอง น้องลาบงัว ft. สแน็ก อัจฉรีย์ [OFFICIAL MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/-OK--KaSPcI/mqdefault.jpg)
This movie felt like it would’ve been a pretty good plot for a Fantastic Four movie where you replace the Quantum Realm with the Negative Zone. It just felt like the settings and plot clashed with Ant-Man as a character. Half of the fun is seeing him grow and shrink in relation to everyday objects and situations. And you can’t do any of that when the entire world is unfamiliar
Hit the nail on the head when you go back and watch ant man 1 the scaling of the scene where Scott puts the suit on for first time and the Yellowjacket fights are so damn cool but the scenes here are just so bland cause the shrinking loses its fun in this setting
Either do a movie in the human world or have him explore the microverse riding water bears and fighting amoeba and hydras and the plot can be some supervillain is trying to release a bioweapon to destroy society and the ant man army must shrink and act like white blood cells etc
I suspect this was pitched as the first Fantastic Four movie but they slid the cast of Ant-Man into it instead.
There lies the problem. Alot of people don't know, Payton Reed the director of all 3 Antman films has been aggressively lobbying to do Fantastic 4 when they get rebooted in the MCU behind the scenes. Feigi & the Disney big wigs don't feel he can handle that great a scale so he basically made the Pyms HIS version of the Fantastic 4 including pushing to use Kang. MODOK, should've been the main villain instead of a b.s. punching bag sidekick & Ksng setup in the after credits similar to Thanos
I couldn't have put that any better, very well said.
Did anyone else think that the ending was cheap where the portal closes with Scott and Hope stuck in the quantum realm but then 3 seconds later it's just back online? I was already surprised there wasn't at least a minor major death like Hank or Janet but then it seemed like nothing of consequence happened. We learned Kang was dangerous and there are plenty of him coming, which is probably the same information we're going to learn in Loki S2
If by dangerous you mean we can add Ants to his lists of weakness’s including knives then sure. He’s certainly scary and watching a bunch of him screech like animals really solidified the threat that’s supposed to be the next Thani
it really felt like the movie was gonna end with scott and kang both being stuck in the quantum realm, and it was really jarring when hope came back through the portal to deus ex machina the situation. like the movie almost had consequences but then it chickened out at the last second
I thought they will stay there to prepare the ground for secret wars
We knew that time is faster in the regular world than in the quantum realm, so that 3 seconds was pretty much a lot of time already for Cassie (who we knew was able to contact the quantum realm) and the others to get the portal running again.
That 200% felt like a reshoot that was added because Scott being stuck at the end didn't test well
The movie would have been great if Marvel Studios did the write thing and let Nando make “Ant-Man & The Wasp & The Ant-Man”.
Did the WRITE thing
Wonder how it would have been with Edgar Wright.
write thing 💀
seriously marvel should just let Nando write for them
Can’t wait for the reboot. “The Ant-Man”
Quantumania needed to be weirder.
Also, this film did the thing that really bugs me in lots of movies. "I have a secret that would be really important to share but THERE'S NO TIME!" There would definitely be time.
Yea... Except Janet had months to years to explain the truth.... Since Ant-Man 3 to Ant-Man 4 is probably 5+ years... And she said nothing in all that time.... she didn't say anything because As Ryan George said.....
"so the movie can happen"....
Evangeline Lilly didn’t get NEARLY as much backlash for her political views as Letitia Wright did. Evangeline even doubled down and said Marvel respects her political views. Whereas with Letitia she apologized and got vaccinated. News publications started spreading rumors about her on set that weren’t true.
I think the distinction between the two actresses should be addressed.
I have no idea what the other girl said, the anti vax girl tho, I knew about that
My two big problems with the movie were that I really felt that Kang needed to win and Scott needed to die to properly set up the stakes and threat of Kang for the rest of phase five and six and neither of those things happened. Kang was beat by a bunch of ants and basically nothing changed from the beginning to the end of the movie which I felt was rather disappointing.
Exactly...the whole film and before kang has been hyped up. And then...he just loses. Like, in a stupid way.
Yes. The ending I wanted is everyone else gets through except for Scott. Him and Kang have the fist fight where Kang is clearly curb stomping Scott. Kang kills Scott and it seems like he’s going to begin his conquering. He gets all his tech back but right before he leaves, one of the post-credit scene Kangs shows up to stop him. Despite Quantum Kang having all his weapons and tech, post-credit Kang absolutely demolishes him, even faster and easier than Quantum Kang beat Scott. Then continue with the post-credit scene with that Kang returning and letting the others know that Quantum Kang is dead.
I would have even settled for Hank dying and Scott and Hope being trapped in the quantum realm with Kang escaping. But they couldn't even do that. Terrible ending to a mostly bad film
Even if he didn’t die, having him trap himself and Kang would’ve been a solid pay off, set up the stakes, and bring him back full circle to starting his tenure locked up.
Even worse, the story suggests that a sacrifice will be necessary and has a fake-out before a last-minute save, it does this several times during the finale.
It truly feels like they were toying with the idea of killing Scott but lacked the conviction to see it through.
It seems clear that Kang will require a "power-up" to truly be an Avengers-level threat and that's pretty disappointing for the big bad and central aspect of the Multiverse Saga.
My biggest issue with the movie, and on the whole I enjoyed it, was that it had a perfect ending where the heroes had just made the big sacrifice play, with real emotional stakes, and it was all reversed literally thirty seconds later. And not just in real time, which would have been bad enough, but in movie time as well. Zero time passed between the portal closing and Cassy reopening it.
The trailers for quantumania really made it seem like Kang was going to offer Scott a chance to be with his daughter during the snap. (Like almost directly said that was going to happen in the movie)
I thought this was really interesting for 2 reasons. 1: it gives Scott a character arc, being tempered with an understandable yet ultimately selfish want. He would make a decision to go against his better judgment for something he wants, and ultimately give up the opportunity to be there for his daughter for the greater good.
And 2: it makes Kang more interesting. It shows that he’s smart and knows how to manipulate people, that he isn’t just brute strength.
But then in the actual movie, Kang is just like “do this bad thing for me or I’ll kill your daughter”, which is so much less interesting. It takes away Scott’s agency. He isn’t making a decision to do something bad, he’s being forced to. He doesn’t learn anything or grow.
Yeah I had the same reaction, the marketing made out that line was towards Scott which would have been really interesting, but in the actual movie it was a bit of a throwaway line to Janet, honestly would've been so much better if there was some level of internal conflict for Scott in the film and then there also could be conflict between Scott and the rest of the ant man crew as Janet would probably convince the others that kang can't be trusted resulting in tension between them and Scott
Would've been cool
I didn't like that idea but I also don't understand why the trailers would propose a completely different storyline than what we are getting in the movie...
I know right that sounds like an amazing one main lesson for the plot! What even is the main lesson of the plot again?😭 This Movie could’ve easily hinted at making up for lost time but no…
I can't believe Spider-Man and Black Window came back to form the Bug Brigade. Most accurate comic adaptation to date.
Ikr
Black Window? Is it tinted?
@@BenRigney480 the real villain is auto-correct
MODOK should have been the main antagonist with Kang commanding him behind the scenes. Darren Cross as a character should definitely have a lot of things to unpack when meeting Hank, Hope, and Scott again after being horribly deformed. With MODOK, the stakes should have been more personal because MODOK/Darren would definitely be focused on vengeance. He was literally left to die...and it bugs me that neither Hope nor Hank even cared when he dies in the movie.
When MODOK said "Tell me what to be" after being beaten by Cassie, you could see a glimpse of a good story idea there. At this point, Darren Cross is a completely broken man who doesn't even consider himself human anymore (and can you blame him? He lost everything). IMO this interaction should've been with either Hope or Hank, someone who knew Darren as a good man before the Pym Particles started affecting his mind in Ant Man 1.
When Kang shows himself at the end and absolutely bodies Ant Man, it would be more believable for MODOK to have his redemption arc and holds Kang back, sacrificing himself as Ant Man and the Pyms escape from the Quantum realm.
That would have been amazing!
I feel like the Conqueror variant of Kang should’ve been saved for and introduced in Fantastic Four. Like have He Who Remains in Loki, M.O.D.O.K in Quantumania and then Kang the Conqueror in Fantastic Four. This could’ve also made the conflict of the FF film more personal since Kang is a descendant of Reed.
I’m going to be competlely honest. This movie should’ve been a Fantastic Four movie. Everything about this screamed Fantastic Four. Family of adventures find themselves in an alternate dimension where they have to fight a cosmic overlord. That’s just Fantastic Four.
@@hasthehighground8560 No same this was a Fantastic Four movie with Ant-Man characters swapped in
@@hasthehighground8560 i completely agree with you on that. Maybe they could’ve even went up against other Kang variants along the way too
Even though I like quantumania, I will say that this should have been a fantastic four movie.
Unfortunately that didn’t happen. Now marvel is going to take like 3 years trying to convince us a guy who we’ve only seen lose is some sorta threat (I assume Loki beats up victory timely in season 2)
Real talk your pitch for 'Ant-Man & The Wasp & Ant-Man' was one of the best MCU fan pitches that I've ever seen!
FACTS I was convinced they were gonna go in that direction
@@samuelbrock maybe they will for Ant Man 4 as they want to go back to basics a bit (without the MODOK parts)
@@-That_F_Guy I sure hope so man!
@@-That_F_Guy antman don't deserve 4 movies 😂
What's crazy is that Modok was the original villain but feige and Reed wanted kang
Really feels like it. As is, Modok feels tacked on, has a shitty redemption, then dies.
So much of the fun of the Ant Man movies is the "Honey I Shrunk the Kids" aspect of him shrinking in the real world, setting this mostly in the Quantum Realm really loses a lot and it sorely misses it.
Your idea about having Kang pulling strings behind the scenes and having MODOK as the main villain was so good that it made me annoyed with where they went in this movie. Better to have Kang being busy conquering elsewhere and slowly setting him as the big bad like we saw with Thanos. Slow and deliberate.
It would have been so much better if they completely hid kang from any of the advertising for this film and promoted it as a MODOK villain film only. In the film they kept not saying Kangs name which just frustrated me because everyone knew he was the main antagonist in the film, it’s been forced down our throats. Imagine how much better it would have been if they kept referring to ‘him’ and the audience think they mean MODOK and then when you finally meet MODOK you find out he is just a solider for a Kang reveal at the end.
because that wouldnt sell the movie. no one really knows MODOK and wouldnt be hyped as much
@@mistermistermr732 why selling it around modok? sell it around the quantom world. like, it was talked about in end game and ant man and the wasp, sell it around finally seeing what is the quantom world
@@shainahum6717 because honestly no one REALLY cares about the quantum world, only the characters. The Quantum world always looked ugly to me anyways.
"no one cares" based on what?
I definitely think Kang was a threat. He didn't really get defeated by Ant-Man and Wasp. The hyper intelligent ants swarmed him with whatever tech they had and managed to damage his armor off-screen. Sure, it would've been nice to see how that played out, but you can't tell me for a second that Scott, Hope and Cassie were doing anything to him in his suit
This Kang is definitely not dead. My theory is that he's going through the Probability Storm like Scott was and it's going to drive him slightly insane, but mold him into He Who Remains, who is then destined to set up the TVA, etc. The characters are going to realize time is a big ol loop and use a macguffin to break the loop or reboot the universe.
But He Who Remains didn’t have the facial scars, unless you’re referring to the Kang that was seen in statue form at the end of Loki S1?
The problem is, this is a movie and not a Tv Series or Anime, u can't just put a cliffhanger death on a villain and then wait for 2 years if Kang is alive or not...
this works in anime and Tv series but not in a movie. If he is still alive then show it, don't cheat on ur audience with this "Opps sorry he is not dead" type of thing.
Yes, Paul Rudd's charm is too much to resist. But he's never given the same amount of materials to Chris Evans or RDJ for Cap or Tony.
Hell, you could say that for all the Antman cast.
Which is kind of lame considering that now those characters are gone you'd think the writers would compensate. At least by phase 5 since we've had a whole phase to "mourn." And they should have because it feels like they're genuinely trying to make us miss their presence/writing with how mediocre everyone else is in comparison.
"Having Iger back seems like a good sign"
As soon as he came back, he fired 7000 people and started development of Frozen 3 and Toy Story 5. This man is as much of a penny pincher as Chapek was
Yeah, Chapek was bad but lets not pretend Iger heralds a bright future either
Chapek was the fall guy for stuff Disney wanted to do anyways
Chapek was trying to recoup money lost during Igers buying spree that still hasn’t made its money back.
They also totally put the burden of bad decisions Iger did on his shoulders
Yeah, because putting sequels to billion dollar movies into development is a bad idea
@@adamfrasher892When those movies ended pretty concisely, yeah. Wasn't Toy Story 4 supposed to be an epilogue? Where the fuck do you go from there?
One nitpick, did time even pass outside of the Quantum Realm?! They had absolutely no issue with it so maybe it was a few days + but, this was one of the deepest levels of the Quantum Realm.
I don't think the Rick and Morty writers understand the Quantum Realm at all.
They treat it like Fantastic Voyage - were you are small and surrounded by both large micro organisms and yet - many multicellular organisms with must have 'shrunk' (???) Introducing the question of why they - especially Bill Murray is even there. Ok he's doing an SNL skit but I mean - in Universe, why is he there?
Based upon the prior AntMan films, and Endgame, the Quantum Realm is itself another Universe, which means another space/time - independent of our own.
The shrinking to get into it is the rough equivalent of falling into a black hole and coming out in another Universe.
Time is therefore independent in the Quantum Realm and *not* relative to our Universe.
Endgame was smart about this - and realizing that therefore a tunnel between Universes would also be a time machine.
This film is not smart, and has not even thought about it. It's more worried about animated gloop that counts holes in the human body.... just like the cartoons that these Rick and Morty guys write.
@@summertyme5748spot on bro. time working differently in the quantum realm was a factor that had a major affect on scott, being that he missed years of cassie’s life while being trapped there. i think the endgame team handled it pretty well, but my problem with the MCU introducing time travel is that now you just open up a can of worms for all of your movies to be inconsistent because of how differently each writing team utilizes time travel. like for one, if time works differently in the quantum realm, why has Janet aged at the same rate as Hank? In Ant-Man and the Wasp, Janet and Hank are both an old couple, which nullifies Scott being trapped for five hours, and five years passing on Earth.
In terms of Evangeline Lily's politics. I find it particularly funny that when Hank makes the joke about socialism, we just cut to the Wasp with a particularly disgusted face, it seemed like the editor poking fun at that
Well, at least they made her take off the MAGA hat. lol.
Evangeline did nothing wrong and neither did Letitia Wright. Separating the art from the artist is a process that should be reserved for someone like Roman Polanski, who sexually assaulted an underage girl, or Klaus Kinski. Evangeline went to a rally. Get over it. 😂
@@summertyme5748 MAGA? She's Canadian FFS.
@@joshwentas if anyone from other countries can’t comment on, support or be aware of american politics?
@@artgenix8052 yes, because that's what I'm implying, and not that just because someone may disagree with you on one thing doesn't mean they embrace wholeheartedly every political idea you oppose with zero evidence.
People are just so eager to label and hate.
The script here was so scattershot, pointless and aimless it felt so pointless. There were no arcs or lessons learned for any character. The only important scenes were with Janet and kang who coincidentally give the best performances but this didn’t even need to be a whole film. Hope had absolutely nothing to do too.
Everytime that Janet said "I cant tell you", I was like there better be a reason that she can't tell the other characters whats going on. But there was no reason!
Also, I was already saddened when MODOK first showed up, since Marvel likes to kill villians all the time, and yeah he died. I wouldve liked to see him in more projects
Completely agree on both points here. Having a character repeatedly say "I can't tell you" is such an antiquated, forced way of trying to set up a mystery. Same thing with her reaction to Cassie's quantum realm signal device. Janet can't just take the time to explain to everybody "Hey, this is a bad idea, please don't do that because blah blah blah." No, she has to scream and freak out and overreact.
And as far as MODOK, I'm not personally a comic fan so I don't know what his whole deal is usually, though I know he's a bit of a goofball in general. And him being in this movie definitely felt more like... checking him off the list, just to appease fans and so Marvel can be like "Hey, he was technically in one of these movies finally so uhhh we don't really have to bother with him anymore." Especially since I'm sure it's a pain to even have that character work in any live action capacity. Like the CGI for him was not great, and I can't even imagine how they would go about making him with practical effects. (Lol who am I kidding, Marvel doing practical effects?)
The other writing aspect that bugged me, though it's minor, was a story beat early on before everyone gets sucked into the quantum realm. While they're eating pizza, Cassie makes a comment about how Scott hasn't really been doing anything lately. It's insinuated that he's just been kind of resting on his laurels since Endgame, which I think is actually a really interesting concept that could be explored. Like, yeah he fought Thanos and saved the universe so it's totally reasonable that he might feel a little aimless after that. But nope, that plot thread is IMMEDIATELY dropped and never mentioned again.
They actually had Kang capture Janet in the movie already so that should have been the reason.
They should have had Janet say something like "I have to catch you guys up on everything. Let's just meet this old friend of mine in the bar/restaurant and then we'll talk" and then she gets captured after that. That would have been much better, because it's not a weird hand-waving thing where they just don't elaborate. She actually would have intended to talk about it, and just didn't get to because she got taken away.
They didn't spend a ton of time on it but they said (and showed!) Wasp having taken over her dad's company and has been using the science for humanitarian efforts like reversing deforestation, etc. which I imagine is a huge help in a post blip world. Also we can assume she's spent some time with Cassie and maybe helped build her suit.
Yes I commented the same thing so trying to say Hope wasn't doing anything between movies is like bruh maybe you were in the bathroom during that part of the movie lol
The part about Hope helping give a teen develop advanced tech that has military application seems extremely dumb... It's way more logical that the teen secretly developed it... But that is also an illogical concept since PymTech is supposed to be crazy advanced .. .. I don't buy for 1 second that Cassie developed her tech on her own... And I just can't believe that any of the adults helped her develop her tech without realizing how ridiculously irresponsible it would be to give that tech to a teen...
@@claudewinters2091 See: Civil War Tony Stark and Peter Parker
@@CMMaddenJr uhmmm that was another example.... Tony was being irresponsible there... And if you want to tear into him for it... You would be justified... So wait a second... Are you agreeing with me or disagreeing ? .. you just added more weight to my original points.... MCU at times has multiple examples of brilliant responsible ppl doing absolutely dumb, irresponsible stuff.... Yeah bad writing.... But I guess we ignore that so we can tag along for the ride...
@@claudewinters2091 Uh, no. You're weighing decisions made by characters to IRL standards. This is a world where not only do dangerous super powered beings cause harm but the world is invaded by outside forces, multiple times. In one of those cases wiping out half off all life in existence.
It's like in a post apocalyptic world like TWD or The Last of Us where a character who by our standards is probably too young to own/wield a gun but that's the world they're living in.
Cassie is under the guidance of two extremely intelligent scientists and the influence of Hope and Scott which are excellent role models. They didn't throw high powered technology to a random kid on the street.
She also clearly had not used it before so it's likely they were in training and had it for emergencies.
I personally REALLY enjoyed this movie. I love physics and in class we are currently handling quantum mechanics and the visual interpretation of the particle in a box-model and the uncertainty principle of Heisenberg is amazing!
Yeah I had a really cool physics teacher and let us watch Interstellar. He said it’s one of the most accurate physics related movies.
I didn't like how Janet's big dark secret was that she trusted someone evil and then turned on him the very second she realized he was a bad guy. How is that so bad? How is it her fault that he lied to her?
I think they should have made her secret that she found him, joined him, found out who he really was and still worked with him because she wanted to go home to her daughter. She could have been in the realm for decades, maybe even longer than the others knew. Gone slightly crazy. That would have been a nice foil for Scott, who also has to chose on whether to save his daughter or the world.
She even could have turned on Kang at some point in the past and done the whole macguffin blow up thing. But there would have been real blood on her hands.
This movie was to nice, all in all. Nobody evil but the bad guy, nobody dies but the bad guy. (Except for the people without a face....or only a face.)
I think the big problem was they tried making this a big epic movie and didn't make it an Ant-Man movie. It has the same core, but it doesn't have the same heart. I do agree that Kang probably didn't have to be in this movie, but I think what they're doing with Kang is interesting as they've now shown this character Spoilering twice so far. I do think they have a way of bringing the power back to kang with that end credits scene. It does make me think that something else big is coming though, that Kang isn't the only threat being built
_tried making this a big epic movie_
Reed and Rick and Morty writers ego signing checks that their filmmaking skills couldn't cash.
Why can't Ant Man end his trilogy with an epic are trilogies not suppose to scale up? I think the bigger issue is people complaining about nothing
@@Byronic19134 cause it's ants and random Quantum sci-fi junk
@@Byronic19134Ant-Man works small scale, no pun intended.
I just don’t think Kang should have been defeated. It makes so sense. If some oversized Ants can take him down then wtf is he gonna do against the Multiversal Avengers
The writers just don't know what they're doing. The will spend the next month making excuses for this. Feige needs to fire them, period.
he was powered down, he got a tiny bit of juice back but even then he beat the sh i t out of scott
Apparently Catherine Newton apparently went to college after this series and got an A in physics so In the next movie she will be different
When we saw that first scene of MODOK just absolutely demolishing the resistance fighters before we saw MODOKs face, I was thinking "Oh so they're gonna play him weirdly straight and do a Guardians with him as Ronan and Kang as Thanos?" and almost immediately after thinking that we saw MODOKs face and I realized "nope I guess I'm wrong." I agree in that Kang losing to Ant Man of all people makes him seem like a pushover, but my biggest fear is what the council of Kangs may mean for Kang Dynasty. I'm worried we will get another Ultron situation, where the Avengers are just fighting numerous nearly identical Kangs that may as well be drones. I know I'm really jumping the gun with this prediction, and I feel like Marvel has learned from Infinity War and Endgame and even Civil War that the most interesting fights are when two or more people with cool powers are clashing, but idk, I got major Age of Ultron vibes from the post credit scene
I want to point out… Kang lost to advanced civilization of ants after being trapped in the quantum realm and being betrayed by MODOK. Scott did not beat Kang
most of Cassie’s lines were: DAD!
And not for a moment to you believe it. Emma Furhmann had the same line in Endgame and reduced the audience to tears.
I liked the previous two AntMan film's from Reed.
I really - do - not - like the MCU's phase 4 and 5 writers. The Rick and Morty ones specifically. I don't use this term often but - they just suck.
Most of the movie's dialogue was bad. It almost felt ChatGPT-written.
I don’t know if I want Eric ogrady this quick. I don’t think I can see Eric being antman while Scott is still alive. I wanna focus on stature and her integration with the young avengers but as for antman characters separate from her, I want at least one more Scott and hope adventure, maybe Nadia’s introduction as the new wasp and maybe make Eric her endgame boyfriend and such. As for modok, I like the idea of modok continuously being introduced and killed off through the multiverse. I liked this version, not perfect but I liked him and I’d see him play it again in a different universe. But I do agree, I’d rather a modok center villain story but I understand that, because thanos did that exact “work in the background” thing while making Loki and ultron take center stage, they might not want to seemingly tread the same path
I feel the only reason kang was defeated was because of modok and the mechia ants, like it busted his suit. But even then, richards was kicking the shit out of lang.
Makes it even more pathetic tbh. Kang was defeated by ANTS! Rama-Tut shows up? Call the ants. Immortus being an asshole? Throw Corey Stoll at him.
@@guccifer764 Well to be fair... Why would Immortus or Rama-Tut be in the Quantum Realm??? Outside of there.... Did you forget that ants are ANTS?? I'm sure me, you, Immortus and even an elderly woman could defeat an army of ants in the real world with a bottle of Clorox disinfectant spray lol
They should've had everyone refer to "The Conqueror," only for the conqueror to actually be MODOK, with Kang later revealed to be the one pulling the strings behind the scenes
I really liked Modok. Made me wanna return to the show. I also think the point of Kang in the MCU is to have him pop up and do things more than once as opposed to Thanos who didn't take matters into his own hands for quite some time. The threat of Kang is really in the fact that there are almost always more.
I thought the characters were easy enough to see, but I did catch it in 3D, so that may have affected how easy it is to focus on certain things.
I didn’t like the face work on MODOK, though. Felt too much of the time like a face projection on a 3D object
My biggest issue is that at the end of the movie, basically nothing changed, and the MCU wasn't advanced at all...
Kang came and went, and was not terribly problematic for our heroes...most of his threat was in exposition, and other than being said to be a threat, he didn't loom as large as Thanos did and would become. Just another generic conqueror with delusions of grandeur. They clearly needed to bring Kang into the films, because the visibility for Kang was pretty minor compared to the reach of the Loki show, but he went back to being trapped, and will have to sneak or fight or trick his way out - which we know will happen again, and then we just have another version of this movie.
I believe that this Kang is the ultimate Kang the Conqueror and already knows how everything will unfold. He already said he needed Scott and his pym particles and knows that the Kang Council can detect him if he were to leave the Quantum realm as well as remain within it. So Quantumania Kang needed everyone to believe he is dead but in reality warped with the time engine becoming one with time itself to show up and crush the Kang Council and The Avengers / other heroes. After all he is dressed most accurately to THE Kang from the comics and on my second viewing of the movie, I noticed that Kang already knew who Scott was but played dumb when first approaching Scott. He also played dumb to Janet when he first crash landed and was trapped in the Quantum realm. So if you view the movie as Kang already knows the events of time sort of like He Who Remains, then he truly needed Scott to forge with the time engine similar to He Who Remains needing both Loki and Sylvie to kill him thus restarting everything in the multiverse on a time loop.
Kang will return.
so i agree/think this "kang the conqueror" is the same guy as "he who remains". but how you have me wondering if there was any shared symbols between the fortress stuff in quantum realm, and the castle at the......."he who remains" place (i can't remember what his castle was called).
because.........really? is kang going to be that stupid where he slams ant man on his power device? put the only guy who can fist it shrinking particles? the one thing he just got it fixed from?........or was that him knowing it's what he needed to do.
.........oh hell, now i really like this idea. in the final fight. scott was about to jump through the portal, to go home. instead, kang blasted him, preventing him from going home. kang, could have easily also just jumped through after them and LEFT the quantum realm.
he did not. instead, he blasted scott, and kept him in the quantum realm a little bit longer. i think he wanted his engine to get more pym particles.
We’ve had two Kangs so far and both have been killed off immediately. He Who Remains’ felt necessary, it unleashed all the other Kangs to set up everything coming up. But now with this one it just feels like they want to lean in too hard on all his different variants. Why should we fear any individual Kang? Yeah that’s just who the character is, you defeat/kill one another will just take his place, but at least let us sit with one for more than 45 minutes (if that). Have him win outside of flashbacks and exposition!
Loki and Magneto are two villains that don't win every time in their movies. It doesn't take anything away from them as villains. Though they usually lose, Loki and Magneto are great villains in every movie we've seen them in. And villains are not supposed to win LOL. The only villain that actually "won" in a superhero movie was Thanos. Sorry to break it to you... But every superhero movie you've ever watched, besides Infinity War.......... The villain did not win....
@@CharlieAnnSon that’s completely true, winning isn’t what makes a compelling villain. Loki and Magneto are great examples of this, you can even add in ones like Killmonger to that list. Using Thanos as an example, what I was trying to get to is that we never doubted he was a threat. His plans didn’t succeed, but he never truly lost. We knew what he was doing even if we didn’t exactly understand why he was doing it until Infinity War. Imagine if every time Thanos showed up in a movie he got his ass handed to him. Guardians? They beat him to a bloody pulp with the power stone. Age of Ultron post credits? He’s limping and coughing up blood barely escaping a fight. Ragnarok post credits? His ship is barely holding together and is being chased by the Nova Corps. Infinity War? Right as he gets the last stone Thor goes for the head. The end. Even in that scenario we still know the character we’re following and what he wants, but that wouldn’t stop it from feeling inevitable. Of course they were going to beat him, they already did every other time. This is what I think they’ve done with Kang so far. Constantly getting dunked on. He feels like the Black Order did, kinda just there to get killed off. We’ve had two major Kangs so far, both now dead. What we’re their goals? To fight all other Kangs? If so then why are they all coming together in the post-credits scene? To win the love of Renslayer? Surely their own universes would have her in them, and if not, why not just go to a universe without a Kang? As he has been portrayed so far, Kang makes no sense. Why have him in Quantamania at all when you could just use MODOK. Is he also going to be the villain of The Marvels? The next Spider-Man? Secret Invasion? Guardians 3? Was it going to be Nathaniel all along in Coven of Chaos? Marvel had a great character being played by a phenomenal actor, but they have no idea what to do with him. If he keeps showing up in everything just to get killed off he’s not going to be thought of as a threat. Loki went through the same thing until he was more or less a hero. It worked for him because he wasn’t meant to be THE villain. He wasn’t the overarching threat that everyone had to come together for even a small chance to defeat. Kang is, but he doesn’t feel like it and that honestly sucks. Killing him off so he can come back again in the next one was done so well with Loki that it’s weird they’re struggling to do the same with Kang. Having the main threat show up in multiple self-contained properties to connect them all together in a single story was done so well with Thanos yet Kang feels like a hollow imitation. Yes we all know Kang will get defeated in the end and the MCU will move on to the next big thing (my money is on Doom or Galactus, even though I wanna see it be Annihilus), but while he’s here he should at least pose a threat
@@CharlieAnnSon also you’re conveniently forgetting a few extremely good examples of comic book movies where the villain/antagonist wins. The Dark Knight might not jump out at you immediately as doing this but almost all of Joker’s plans succeed, even when he gets captured. He destroys the white knight Harvey Dent, and breaks Batman’s morality and reputation to the point it puts him out of commission for years. And then there’s Watchmen’s “I did it 36 minutes ago” twist. Completely destroying the trope of saving the day at the last minute. There’s nothing that can be done at that point, Ozymandias has already won. So next time you try to be condescending to strangers on the internet for having a different opinion to you, at least make sure to get your facts straight. Sorry to break it to you, but you should just try talking to people normally ;)
I agree with you, people keep saying it doesn't matter if he is dead cause another one will replace him, but that shows the main evil of the SAGA, not movie or phase, the saga is disposable.
The worst thing is that they could make him win here because the stakes weren't high, Kang only wanted to escape the Quantum Realm and after that fight the Council so he wasn't an immediate threat to 616.
They could make him win here and defeat him in a different movie
@@FranciscoRamirez-nb4uu The beloved Thanos lasted for Infinity War and was murdered roughly 10 minutes into Endgame. He was replaced by a an alternate Thanos who had no relation to our heroes very late into the movie. I doubt they’d keep replacing Kang with new Kangs, but if they do, remember Thanos did it first ;) And I KNOW you love Thanos lol
I think the strength of the first Ant Man is the espionage and the juxtaposing with Pym's tragedy, here Hank is in the background looking like confused old man and the spy stuff is not present, it's just him running away from an embarrassing MODOK.
Hmm.. Jonathan Majors was amazing. Menacing as Kang the Exile, very different from his The One at the End of Everything variant.
But I found too much unnecessary out of place humor, like after Modok's sacrifice. And Modok looks like the guy from Shark Boy and Lava Girl. And I know he is quite silly in the comics, but he can still be a dramatic character if done right. But Modok was a joke in Quantumania, his face should have been more.. inhuman. LIKE THE COMICS
And then Ant-Man was... okay. Same with everything else.
If Ant-Man/Wasp ended the movie stranded in the Quantum Realm and with Kang being confirmed as alive, I'd be satisfied.
As funny as the ending was, we needed bigger consequences, and that's the biggest one besides including a death or too.
Regarding Hope, they make it pretty clear she's become very business focused and is using Pym tech for conservation purposes so I feel that's fleshed out enough without focusing too much on it, though I do agree as Wasp she doesn't do much.
Damn you're totally right about MODOK should be the main villain of this movie. I can imagine either MODOK (still alive and went back to Kang to tell him he failed) or one of Kang's goons delivering the bad news, and we see Kang's back against the viewer or just showing a bit of him, and finally in the end showing his face. Maybe even show his force powers thing he did to MODOK, throwing things around in a flick of his finger. It's akin to how they revealed a bit of Thanos in Avengers 1 end credit scene.
On that MODOK thing - just to offer a contrasting perspective, this version hit on both of the big qualities I see as essential to him: that sort of melodramatic struggle between machine + man, whether he's a bad dude *because* of his robotification, or whether his disfiguration is just a good reflection of who is is inside - and a really earnest *loser vibe*.
I think Quantumania managed to capture both of these - and, by extension, that ineffable quality of MODOKness
Maybe my MODOK bar is lower! But I came out of the theatre pretty satisfied with this particular dumb floating head.
You forgot to talk about Jonathan Majors! I think his performance was kind of incredible. The scenes he shared with MP were, for me anyway, someone studying acting, really revelatory - especially because these are very silly characters, very silly situations, and I really felt like everyone sold their respective bits so well and so believably. That shit is way harder than I think people give actors credit for.
Maybe that deserves its own video.
While I love the ”One Small Change” videos, I completely understand why you don’t do them anymore.
I want more of them, and feel like its the best format for a movie review but please continue to make the content that makes you feel good.
I think in the future we'll find out that not only did Kang not lose, he actually manipulated events to get exactly what he wanted while making it look like he lost. But I agree, in the moment it makes Kang look pretty weak.
Anyone else notice that when Kang and Scott had their brawl he said that "he could have left," but Kang never offered that to him in the first place??
Your pitch for Ant-Man 3 sounded way better on paper than this movie in its actual execution.
The only issue I ever had with the Ant-Man movies is the inconsistency with the Pym Particle stuff. Like it was explained that it changes the spaces within the atom to reduce the space as a whole and not the mass so a 2 ton regular sized car will still weigh 2 ton when shrunk to toy size, and the first time Scott ever shrinks, he breaks the tub where he lands then after that its all out the window.
I liked it a lot more than most people seem to, but I have never been a fan of villains dying. Which is... well it sounds kinda dumb, but I would have loved to see this giant stupid face floating around in the real world would be hilarious.
And yeah, as much as I loved Kang, MODOK would have made a perfect villain. That being said, isn't Kang not supposed to be super powered, just super smarted?
And I was really hoping Ant-Man would get stuck in the Quantum Realm. Although having another movie about finding someone that got stuck there would be an odd plot to use... again. They should just hire you. Or steal your ideas.
Thanks for the videos nando. I loved your Ant-Man pitch video. Id love to see more pitch videos.
The “I don’t have to win, we just both have to lose” line is very good I think and could be expanded on and even be the theme of the film.
They show in the film that Kang has and does always win, the only time he’s lost it seems is when Janet messed up his timedrive ball thing. He’s not losing to the rebels he’s just not bothered with dealing with them seriously.
Then you have Scott, who is a bit of a buffoon and does have wins and can do well, especially with the ant man team. But he’s not the greatest and they often tell us that.
So that’s how you show why Scott is the one to beat him, he can lose he’s used to it and he will do it to save the people he loves.
Wish they did more with that but yeah.
Love your content Nando, and I knew you'd have the better take on the movie as everyone seems to be acting like it's some kind of crime against cinema but I gotta say I completely disagree about the action / colors being unreadable. I can't think of a single moment where I was confused or when characters blended into the background. And I think it's strange to complain that Janet Hank and Hope getting grey and brown cloaks makes them fade into the BG when you just said that the BG is red/yellow/purple/black! I think you articulated your point well, and I agree about more intentional lighting/framing, but at no point in this movie did I feel like I misunderstood the action on screen or that characters were lost into the BG.
I think your MODOK issues are personal, which is totally fair, and I do think he can come back, I'm not even convinced that they really "killed" him. He could show up in another movie and they could handwave like the freedom fighters brought him back to life or something.
I've seen so many people say the same thing as you about Kang being beaten by Ant-Man as a bad thing, but like in this movie, I think it works, he's such an existential threat had they let him live they'd have to address it in the next immediate movie or something like the danger is too great. And to the larger point, I think beating him now allows for a more dramatic and personal rise again later. I think your Thanos comparison is a bit of a false equivalence. A) We don't know that Kang is dead, even in the movie, Scott begins to question the legitimacy of their win. B) I think it would've been great to do that with Thanos (minus killing him) because then when he bumps into the guardians again in Infinity War it's 10x more personal.
It's so interesting to see the pendulum swing from "I wish they didn't kill the villains! They could come back and it'd be more exciting/dramatic/they could explore them more!" to "Dang, I wish Ant-Man hadn't defeated Kang. Makes Kang look weak and now when he comes back in an avengers movie he's going to be less of a threat." ALL I've ever wanted is the villains to stay alive and come back MORE threatening! This is a perfect opportunity to do so! Seems like such an odd complaint/criticism to me.
Ultimately I just feel like with this movie people are missing the forest for the trees. I found it to be a fun, trippy, 70s sci-fi visual feast for the eyes with the heart and adventure of a 90s family film. It was a ton of fun, seemed like a logical place for the ant-man series to go, and even though everyone cries about people not dying because it "lowers the stakes", there's now room for more fun ant-man action with Paul Rudd and the whole gang.
I appreciate your detailed description of your issues with the movie - as most EVERYTHING I've seen is someone going, "It's sucked. It's bad. It's Cringe" with no further explanation. I really really enjoyed the movie and the world and the action (The Multiversal Engine snatch-and-grab sequence was so up my alley, I loved it. made me feel like a kid again) so I've just been surprised and confused by the reaction online.
they could've sold kang more if they really did commit to killing off scott or even just leaving him stuck in the quantum realm.
I was surprised the heroes pretty much walked away unscathed, given the advertising and how it built up kang.
I got back from the film a few hours ago and almost 7 minutes in: THANK YOU! So far I've seen nobody talk about how bad the Quantum realm looked and I felt alone in it from the reviews I've been binging since I left the theatre.
Here's a comment I made on a previous video:
*Idk if it's just because I'm an artist and animation student, but I'm not seeing anyone talk about my biggest issue with the film: the visuals.
Before any hackles are risen, I think the film was beautifully animated and impressive on a technical level, but I think the overall result is fugly. First of all, I felt like the actors felt so out of place in their environment. I could just FEEL the screens and backdrops and empty space they were pretending to interact with despite their skillful performances. For most of the first half, they were in large open areas with lots of vertical obstructions like trees and pillars, and yet no matter where they were, it was the same sterile, artificial orange ass lamp that lit their every move. It did not change, did not reflect their surroundings, nor diffuse or brighten depending on their surroundings. The basics of ambient occlusion were lost on this film.
I also hate how fucking dark this film was. Maybe I just have the eyes of an old lady despite being only 26, but for years I only work in bright light as to not strain my eyes. I've never had an issue where a film, despite its tone or setting, made my eyes tired; this film did that.
The values (what colours look like if you put them in grayscale) on screen at all times except a few were terrible. If someone put a grayscale filter over this film it would mostly be near blacks and muddy grays, with maybe a few bright spots. I wanted to reach out to the screen with a flashlight to actually see things.
I also hated how much poop and mud brown was everywhere. The set pieces and designs were great, but not the colour. The colour was terrible. If they went through the trouble of having artificial suns and light sources, they could have done a lot more. All in all, the colour palette for this film, sucked.*
I’m watching it tomorrow
Well designed set pieces that just felt like set pieces. You can tell when actors are interacting with digital assets which is never something I felt about mjolnir or cap's shield. And the plant life and environment felt very plastic/rubbery. There was one moment where I noticed the ambient orange just wasn't showing up on Kang at all. His hair was perfectly flat black against a foggy orange atmosphere. Definitely taken out by the visuals.
Does the background guy on 8:16 look unfinished? 🤔
Is the reason you no longer do one small change because every time I watch Endgame I wish nebula was the one making the gauntlet run
Between MODOK in this movie and Egghead getting written off as part of Ghost's backstory in the last one, what is it with the Ant-Man movie burning through Marvel's mad scientist villains?
Always feel good to be validated (especially by a favourite TH-camr)!!! As soon as the film was done, I said to my partner “Why the hell was Kang in this movie?”
Honestly, I wonder if the "Kang Dynasty" title is a misdirect for Adam Warlock to become the big bad. Might be a good idea now with the recent news about Majors.
I love Nando's takes and his content is always excellent and enjoyable. However, having JUST come out of this movie thinking this was a truly awesome MCU movie on par with Wakanda Forever and No Way Home...I can't help but think Nando's grips with this movie all stem from his disappointment that his theories didn't coalesce into reality.
MODOK was well used as a callback to the OG movie. A teenage Cassie defeating him was superb and on point. Remember, Darren tried to kill Cassie when she was little, it's even stated again as a reminder at the beginning of the movie for the audience.
Kang's presence lays so much groundwork for Kang Dynasty and everything leading up to it. Thanos' one issue before Infinity War is that we got basically nothing but teasers for him before IW and I think Kang's early integration into the Saga is a sound and necessary course correction from a definitive flaw of the Infinity Saga.
The political takes on Wasp's actor seems just kinda petty. Especially since they have some fun with her looking annoyed as her father waxes off about Ants and Socialism. Having a conservative adult daughter with a wacky fellow traveler dad is both very amusing and adorable to boot.
I won't try and make some argument that is the best movie in the MCU yet, but I can't help but feel like Nando is just objectively wrong outright by saying this deserves to be grouped with the likes of the "lower half" MCU movies.
is he not allowed is own opinion lol
@oscar Sure he does, but this video isn't him saying him saying: "I'm really disappointed my Reed Richards/MODOK centric theory was just fanfic.." It's just a lot of officiating in the guise of a referre on a movies merits as they are. Again as things stand this was the transfiguration of a GotG style movie into a proper Star Wars movie better than Lucasfilm could have done it these days.
Had to wait a week to catch the movie with all my work buddies (we work at a comic shop, so new Marvel stuff is basically a business expense for us), here's what I walked away from the movie feeling: The major problem with the movie is that no one was talking, and even when they were, they weren't saying anything. Put less snarkily: there weren't any meaningful emotional subplots, and a LOT of the narrative and its obstacles were predicated on, in essence, just a lack of communication.
You touch on the first part of that with the "why has Scott become a defender of the status quo/I guess he learned a lesson" bit at the end: the movie, in the opening, acted like it was going to set up a couple interesting sub-plots, then it didn't...and then it acted like it was paying those non-existent subplots off.
- Cassie is getting arrested because she's at protests for housing, and Scott is against that, because now he has his perfect life, and he's trying not to think too hard or question things. They go to the Quantum Realm, he has one minor argument with Cassiie about helping the Natives, then he ends up helping them anyway.
- In his opening narration, Scott goes on and on about how important all the stuff Hope is doing for the world is, while he's 'retired', and even his "fans" don't actually know who he is. which feels like it's setting up the question of whether Scott's time is past/Hope is more valuable to the world, which gets 'paid-off' by her choosing to come back through the portal to save/be with him...but the two of them have only exchanged...what, 4 lines this movie?
AS to the second, a bunch of the core conflicts and issues of the movie stem from people just...not saying things, often for seemingly no reason. How do the heroes end up in the Quantum Realm? Janet refused to talk about her time there, and just ASSUMED that the family of super-scientists, thieves, and covert agents would have no curiosity about the realm beneath their feet, so no one in the family told her. Hell, it's not even just the heroes: The Kang in this movie is a chronocidal conqueror...but he is also, at least according to him, the preferrable option, and the movie NEVER SAYS HE'S WRONG. Like, yeah, he's going to destroy timelines, ending trillions of lives...but as far as we know, so are the thousands of other Kangs, and if they were scared enough of him to exile him out of time, then presumably he's potentially capable of stopping them. And the movie, again, kind of agrees with him, giving Scott a narration freak-out at the end that "oh no, have we doomed everyone?"...and then it just says "Eh, we'll figure it out." Hell, after the probability storm scene, Kang refuses to tell Scott where Cassie is...as a bit? Like, just tell the dude you're betraying him. Which in turn makes Kang's speech at the end weird: "You could have gone home." Dude, you had his daughter.
I know you don't do the One Small Change stuff any more, but it's particularly jarring because I think just a couple lines here and there could have made these ideas snap into focus. If I have some spare time, I'll try and sketch out what I think would have fixed it, basically without 'changing' any of the movie, just, like, making a couple scenes longer.
I did really like this movie, it really did everything I wanted from it. I really liked Ant Man 1 but did not enjoy Ant Man and The Wasp. I really like how this took place in the Quantem realm, for a place they always talked about it was so nice to finally explore it. The focus on Janet was super appreciated- it really let her shine (Even if the Wasp didn't get to shine too much in this which was unfortunate, she still had some good moments). Really liked Scott in this movie too; that scene where he threatened Kang for hurting Cassie allowed him to be a level of serious he doesn't usually get to be. While Kang getting defeated may not work the best for him, I was really sold on how strong of an opponent he was. The sound effects on his punches on Scott were brutal, and his tech was crazy. When I saw the stadium of them I did really wonder how the Avengers would beat him.
I liked the finale with the ants swarming to defeat Kang, that felt very fitting to me as an end to the Ant Man trilogy. I also knew Modok would be divisive, and I can understand why you'd be a bit bummed with his portrayal here. I did like the concept of tying Modok back to Darren from Ant Man 1, helps adds some nice throughlines for this trilogy, and I liked how Cassie was the one to take him down, considering what happened in Ant Man 1.
But the real standout to me was seriously the probability scene. I LOVED THAT. That scene alone clears anything in Ant Man 2 for me IMO.
That all said, I do think Dr Strange 2 was better than this move and possibly the best movie of phase 4. I really liked how that movie handled wanda and dr strange.
Love your vids Nando!
I actually thought most of the performances were fine outside of Majors who I thought was exceptional!
No more ‘One Small Change’ ?!?!?! Need that explanation video 😆😅
OH MY GOSH, I thought I was crazy! I loved the movie, but it was so like, the same tone. It all felt so dark. It makes me want to see it on Disney Plus, with the brightness up on my tv
It just hit me, that Quantummania would have been a better property if it had been a Disney+ series. Not a long series, maybe like 6 episodes of about 30-45 minutes each
I think the reason they let antman beat him is the same reason iron man beat him to basically set up Kang Dynasty because that only really happens if the Kang's consider the heroes a threat
^ That doesn't make sense. Kang becomes a threat *if HE ESCAPES* - Not if he is dead.
What are the Avengers supposed to be a threat to? All Antman did is prevent THEIR prisoner from escaping. Yes, and.....
There is zero logic in the Kangs concluding that because ants killed their captive Kang, that the Avengers can and will travel the multiverse - and....do what????
Better writers would have used more imagination. Instead of killing Kang, send him back to the 21st Century. [Hank could be killed though trying to stop Kang]
Send Cassie to a different timeline than Scott - so she loses her dad again and does not know if he is alive or not. [jeezus - use TIME in your story, about time traveling warlord, Mcfly!]
If you really want to create pathos - have an end credit scene where Cassie reunites with her mom {who isn't in this film as is} - but CASSIE is now now an old woman - who has spent her entire life trying to recue and re-unite with her dad, whereas her mom - only now even finds out that she was trapped in the Quantum Realm [maybe for a day] but having come back - as an old woman.
Those are just some ideas. Note the common denominator - they all make this film, have a point, they actually advance the story, disrupt the status quo and create a cliffhanger.
Is Scott alive or dead?
Will Cassie ever see him again?
Kang is now let loose in the 21st Century and he knows the Avengers are problem. The other Kangs *realize that HE HAS ESCAPED* - and THAT is what sets off their alarm.
So the Kangs are coming...for Kang!
Why are they upset that Kang is dead anyway?
Shit they trapped him in the Quantum Realm - what do they really care if he died there????
This film ends with this revelation: *OH no, nothing i did mattered at all* - Scott.
lol. Writing of this film is bad.
@@summertyme5748THANK YOU
@@summertyme5748 It might be a logistics nightmare though. There's no guarantee Ant-man 4 is coming. Would you like some of these questions resolved possibly offscreen(kind of undermining the point of having these plot details in the first place)? In Captain America Civil War, they were able to have Cap and Iron Man leave each other because it was planned they would reunite in Endgame. Sadly Ant-man/Scott may not get that extra consideration. Though I agree I wish we had your ideas in the movie for sure.
Cassie was the one thing I was worried about the whole time, and while I didn’t hate her and I liked her more than I thought I would, she had some lines that were fucking terrible. Like when she constantly shuts on her dad for actually doing good in life and being happy
My biggest problem was how often they all take their helmets on and off.
I think this movie has way more than 2 problems
Lots.
Nando has always kinda treated the MCU with kiddy gloves. He has a soft spot for them.
@@guccifer764 yeah I agree, even tho I love nando
I enjoyed the movie a lot more than most but I get your complaints entirely. I think the acting was on point throughout, its issues seems to be more related to direction and writing.
why is it you stopped the "one small change" videos?
I agree MODOK should be more grotesque and I’d also love to see a more substantial take like you mention but I’m also just at a point with these movies where I just saw a mostly comics accurate MODOK complete with buzzsaws in an MCU movie which felt impossible even 5 or 6 years into the MCU, and that’s cool to me.
I don’t see why we couldn’t get more MODOK, if it’s something Kang did to Cross there’s no reason he couldn’t create another, or hey doesn’t even have to be Kang. Do I think they’ll do it? Less optimistic there but maybe Secret Wars?
genuine question for anyone that's seen the movie, is the guy running behind Cassie at 8:16 real? like is that actually in the movie? because that looks *really* bad
Nice critique. I was surprised to see William Harper Jackson as well. And you're the second person I watched who also had a problem with Kang being defeated in the movie. 🙂👍
I read the original ending & that was way better than what they ended up going with, Modok was bad all around, but the movie is still decent, it wasn’t “garbage” or anything
It kinda felt like all the dialogue in act 2 was written by chat GPT? Or like they put in place-holder lines and time-sink scenes and forgot to go back and replace them with actual writing and plot connections?
What happened to Ghost from Ant man 2? Like she needed quantum energy or something. That's why he was in the quantum realm before endgame. So yeah did she just evaporate?
The Quantum Realm looked like what would happen if you poured out all the condiments in your fridge into a bowl. Grape jelly, mustard, relish. It was unappealing CGI glop.
I haven’t seen it anywhere but Luis and the crew should have absolutely been there at the end. I’m sorry. That felt weird that they weren’t there.
Pay Michael Pena. Pay TI.
They should’ve had them fix the quantum tunnel to rescue them. Could’ve been fun and a plot point in the story.
That was my big thing is it felt like half the cast was missing, Luis and the crew were such an integral part of the other movies especially the first one that it made bo sense that they were just not there at all.
Another person i found weird was a complete lack of Cassie's mom and stepdad, cause they were also no where to be found which was odd because the first and second movie it really felt like Cassies mom wanted Scott to succeed and wanted him to apart of Cassies life like she was and it was strange that they were missing.
And finally, what is Hope and Scott's relationship cause Cassie randomly calling Hank grandpa really felt weird cause like are they supposed to be married cause its never mentioned and she doesn't refer to Hope as any sort of mother figure but Hank gets Grandpa and it's just really odd
I don't think this Kang is dead. But that rumored ending of antman being stuck with kang at the end of quantumania would have been really interesting
The most fleshed out character in these movies so far was Anthony
Scott's arc was the biggest thing that bugged (heh) me about the movie. He didn't really learn anything about activism or doing the right thing, his entire focus was saving Cassie and helping the resistance was just a nice bonus to that.
I walked out of the movie thinking it was fun and perfectly watchable, but pretty much nothing more than that.
Scott stayed back and tried to sacrifice himself and got his ass kicked by Kang what do you mean he didn't learn anything?
Nando, please read this! I wonder what you think! Here’s my one small change:
I think modok should’ve been the main villain. Kang should’ve manipulated everyone like he manipulated Janet at the beginning. Janet doesn’t know Kang. Instead, Kang is the leader of the rebels against modok. Maybe he goes by Nathaniel. We can get a taste of kang’s personality/conqueror’s mentality even without his tech. They all help Kang repair his ship’s power core but he needs Scott to steel something for him. That way, Scott can still have a similar probability zone scene. He steals it for kang, but he would think he’s helping him beat modok instead of being blackmailed to do it. Kang then gets his tech/suit back and easily defeats modok. The ant fam realizes what they’ve done and then they could “trap” him in the quantum realm the same way Janet did, by smashing his ship’s power source with pym particles. He’d still have his suit so it would only be temporary. It could end with a similar portal scene as zs justice league, when they have a stare down with darkseid.
This could have worked as a straight up Hank and Janet adventure a lot better.
Of all the failings of this movie, one of the biggest is that Reed and Loveness simply could not balance ping-ponging back and forth between the two groups of characters. Most likely could have dropped the resistance movement Scott and Cassie join. As entertaining as William Jackson Harper basically being MCU Chidi was for me, that entire group of characters added nothing but padding.
Really, this thing needed to borrow less from Star Wars, and steal more from Total Recall.
100% agree on making MODOK the primary villain. Needed to make Kang more menacing. Having him just… lose… to Antman fell really flat
So many of my favorite reviewers are down on this movie in ways that I totally hear and understand yet just don't agree with. That's actually kinda neat! I think most of it is boiling down to expectations for this movie combined with the increasing weight of the overall MCU IP. Honestly I think I've enjoyed movies like this a lot more than I expect to in large part because of you guys being so critical. I'm not in love with any of them, but I've been very appreciative of them even while noting where they easily could (and certainly should) have been better.
I really liked the space opera vibe this movie had and wish they leant into that more. The creature designs and technology was great, those slime vehicles felt so different than anything that I'd seen before which really helped the Quantum Realm stand out as a different place. The use of green screen and the Marvel cgi sheen is an issue that is starting to bug me more and more. I don't have an issue with Kang being the main villain I just wish he would've won in some way in the end. Also the end credit scene made me so excited to see more Johnathan Majors in the MCU.
You finally nailed why I did not like this movie. I knew I didn't like the plot much but that wasn't necessarily that big of an issue (marvel has not impressed me since NWH), I physically did not enjoy it, I was tired after watching, and it 100% was because of the colour. It felt like trying to see during late dusk. Those weird few moments before it is truly dark where everything has the same colour and depth is difficult to estimate and shapes all kinda blend together. But instead of a few minutes it was for a lot longer and I had to try to see people fight. I left with a small headache behind my eyes.
Also them needing orange slices after growing made no sense to me... they might be bigger than the rest of the people there and relative to the space but they are still so so so tiny. If they originally shrunk to the size they were when they were big in the movie they would not need orange slices, they SHRUNK, THEY ARE SMALL
Oh AND ALSO ALSO THEY SHOULD HAVE LOST. Scott should have died protecting his family and they should have lost. The Kang all the other Kangs are afraid of is defeated by ants... imagine Thanos was defeated by ants before ever meeting the avengers...yeah...k
MODOK was definitely handled very poorly in this movie. I liked the decision to make Darren Cross deformed into MODOK and the design he was given I thought was fairly good for what the comic design is. I agree with you that MODOK was too subdued as a character in terms of expression (maybe Corey Stoll still could have played MODOK but just became more facially deformed) and the goofiness of the character was taken a bit too far (jokes during interesting or dramatic moments).
i think your idea of every kang making his own MODOK is a great idea and way of bringing him back (as tarlatan)
I actually like how you wrote an ant man3 pitch on your original channel nando.
I made a video year before last about why I was nervous about Kang being the main villain in Ant-Man 3 and kinda disappointed that I turned out to be right?? Kang just felt like too big a villain for Ant-Man (no pun intended). And having him beat who's supposed to be the Big Bad for the next couple of phases feels like a weird start for Phase 5
I need to see Kang at full power with no battery issues. If they keep bringing him up at half juice or running out of energy what’s the point of bringing him?
Also they could’ve just had Kang set up MODOK with the suit and an army then just dip out halfway thru like Ronin and Thanos
that's it, even videos about movies i purposefully skipped are insanely entertaining and informative.
nando is one of the most clever minds in the superhero fandom and whoever gives him a contract first, will win. it's up to feige and gunn (it's gunn who is the "boss" of the dceu now, right?)
Its the Voldemort effect. By the time we got to the last book, we’d seen Voldemort beaten so many times, it felt like it wasn’t a big deal.
Dolores Umbridge ended up being a far more interesting villain overall for the series.