Noodle Lied & Why AAA Games Actually Suck
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 มิ.ย. 2024
- @noodlefunny #aaagaming #baldursgate3
Please read in its entirety
I was actually working on this video before Hbomber dropped his , but it only adds to the sentiment that these things need to be addressed as quickly as possible, because way too many of your trusted favorites are literally just frauds and I'm so sick of them taking full advantage of their audiences providing ZERO worth in the process...
To Noodle. You've made mistakes in the past but this is not one of them. This is a deliberate and sustained effort to manipulate your audience, and for whatever reasons, I can only speculate to be immediate short term gratification, because the long term consequences of something like this is far more devastating than whatever personal reasons you had to gain something from lying this maliciously. I had anticipated fans of yours to combat my video's narrative, so I'm not at all shocked, but it only cements my point further that what you did, at the size you are, is something far too dangerous to be left unaddressed. A response would be nice, but it is unlikely
I believe true creatives are being drowned out by charlatans and grifters merely looking to capitalize on the juvenile systems and young audiences we have online, not realizing the very devastating real world consequences of their actions. I do not claim to be a paragon, merely a man who genuinely cares, and we should all care about the world we live in at least enough to call out youtubers who lie lol . I would like this video to reach a wide audience.
Games are a culmination of man's brilliance; Blank canvases that act as portals to metaphysical concepts we cannot interact with in our day to day lives, a potential bastion of philosophy, art, teaching, and connecting that can anchor us to reality in a way once never thought possible before. We need to tend to them like our child, and not allow bad actors to stir the conversation away from what it should be about : Art, humanity, and the pursuit for better. Stop letting these dorks talk you out of your happiness and start thinking for yourselves.
Edited, written, scripted, voice acted, researched by me cause I had no idea y'all worked in groups lol
________________________________________________________________________________________________
Noodle's Original Video : • Why games are too big
Xalavier's original tweet thread : WritNelson/status...
________________________________________________________________________________________________
The videos Noodle conveniently forgot to link (also the funny video I used at the Gollum part) :
No one wanted a Gollum game : • Nobody Wanted a Gollum...
MiMiMI's Goodbye Letter : www.mimimi.games/our-final-game/
The Act Man (Baldur's Gate 3 is WAY too good apparently) : • Baldur’s Gate 3 is WAY...
Destin Legarie's ABSOLUTELY BASED AND NOT CONSUMER BRAINED TAKE : • Baldur’s Gate 3 is Cau...
Critikal's Podcast and their discussion around the current state of gaming : • The Official Podcast #...
Legacy Killa's video covering the discourse : • Insomniac, Blizzard, O...
Endymion TV : • Baldur's Gate 3 Proves...
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All the Studios EA has shut down : www.vintageisthenewold.com/ga...
Sony's Wikipedia points to another outrageous amount of studios that have been shut down as well. Its a simple read if you wanna track their history : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlaySta...
Kotaku's article on Pandemic Studios : kotaku.com/confirmed-ea-close...
Microsoft literally going "these people no longer serve any use to us" : www.gameinformer.com/2021/12/...
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Chapters/ Table of Context for easier video navigation
00:00 introduction
4:18 What is a "Strawman argument"?
5:23 Nelson vs Destin
7:04 Nelson's thread (1st Half)
11:15 Star Citizen
15:19 Nelson's thread (2nd Half)
20:57 Why this is important
23:51 Noodle's examples are false
27:05 The real pattern
29:45 MiMiMi Games
- - THE DISCOURSE SEGMENT ( weirdo territory ) - -
33:22 Point of No Return.
34:28 Noodle's entire video is fake
42:10 LegacyKilla's clip
43:35 (VOLUME WARNING) Malicious editing
48:36 Who are you really?
54:41 A surface level observation
59:47 Why did they do this?
1:00:40 This should concern you greatly
1:03:45 Break the loop
1:08:31 The Demon Avarice
1:10:16 Why Games Actually Suck. - เกม
![Smoother animation ≠ Better animation [AI ENHANCED]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_KRb_qV9P4g/mqdefault.jpg)
![Smoother animation ≠ Better animation [AI ENHANCED]](/img/tr.png)
I thought this was an overreaction to what Noodle had said at first. Then he pointed out the cherry picking. And then I saw the audio stitching, and my jaw dropped. And it just kept getting worse. Noodle really is a prime example of youtube charlatan. The man knows he fooled you and is laughing in our faces.
Edit: Also the dude at 46:39 really does just hit the nail on the head, big shout out to him for pointing it out.
its pretty vile the entire section lol
@@ArchWizardCj I should have known better too seeing as how I had seen all the same videos Noodle referenced including Legacies. That shit flew under my radar and I had to go back and see for myself so I didn't feel crazy.
its all good man he was being very very sneaky yes @@RedStar441
I’m dumbfounded that this guy is managing to make you believe that noodle is hitler.
Pls think about this hard. In what way does legacykilla mentioning “ok maybe double a studio get a pass” actually affect noodle’s argument? Legacykilla still goes on to say that it sounds like an excuse, that added context doesn’t change anything. Do you seriously believe noodle was shit scared into thinking his entire argument falls apart over a brief mention of what studios a certain person might be ok with no killing themselves over the development?
"how does removing the entire context of his argumentative point being explicitly towards AAA development to make a counter point against an argument he never made change the foundation of his statement"
bro please read what you're typing lmao @@mrj1897
Are game devs under appreciated? Yes
Are games hard to develop? Yes
Should games have basic things such as stability? YES.
Publishers and their lackey devs love to point out how hard games are to make, how expensive they are to make, how unrealistic expectations are and so on and so forth and people get caught up arguing about how the publisher and developer are responsible for how hard games are to make by always chasing the latest graphics... but the truth is, _none of that fucking matters._
I will scream this until my head turns blue and I pass the fuck out:
*_IT'S NOT THE CONSUMER'S JOB TO CARE HOW HARD YOUR GAME IS TO MAKE. HOW EXPENSIVE YOUR GAME IS TO MAKE._*
*_IT'S THEIR JOB TO BUY GAMES THEY LIKE._*
You make product, we buy product. THAT is our relationship. If we don't want what you have to offer, you didn't do your job well enough.
Developers aren't lackeys. You've never worked a day in your life. @@Lucifronz
I worked several factory jobs but anytime I was treated like shit I walked right outta there. (I actually have both a mental and physical handicap stated up front and the only places that respected me as a worker were companies in specialist artisinal sectors).
Then again, I live in a country where union busters only exist in large telecom companies.
Companies that treat their workers like shit deliver shit products. The games industry is full of what in my opinion are artisinal workers, who are treated like shit.Those people should unionize, and walk when they're over worked. Otherwise they perpetuate the problem.. Not saying they're lackeys, but their loyalty is often exploited and any worker in any field should be aware of that.
@@MillVillage
@@MillVillage Devs are lackeys.
@@Lucifronzdevs aren’t lackeys tho they are workers like the
rest of us
See the actual argument game developers wanna say but can’t is “don’t make bg3 a new industry standard, because my publisher will only give me 1 year to make another bg3” and I don’t think anyone has mentioned this.
+1
Sounds like the industry is fd.
The thing that pains me about these videos is how Noodle is trying to make an argument for the developer and this video is trying to make an argument for the end consumer. With the current employee churning, studio closing, crunch culture worshipping state of the AAA industry a game like BG3 can't happen without major industry shifts. From the perspective of a Gamer™, it's utterly infuriating - how can these gigantic studios with billions of dollars not output a game with the same level of quality as a well paid staff of people over the span of six whole years? Can't they just throw money at the problem?
Not that this invalidates many of the points that have been made on this video, but it's just comparing two different perspectives into the same topic and then being surprised when those clash.
@@DespediteThe reason this keeps on happening is because enough people still buy video games from AAA studios no matter the quality, which is enough for AAA studios to make profits. If enough people stop buying AAA games to the point that the company wont make a profit, perhaps things will become better. But people have to learn about this, because if they don't, it will happen over and over and over and over and over and over again.
@@therealmanguymanart mediums in business in a nutshell
Only inaccuracy I see in this video is Bobby Kotick actually being concerned about the wellbeing of the developers children.
Gasp!
It’s crazy how Noodle thew up a bunch of studios on screen thinking nobody would actually look into or know why those studios don’t exist. Most have been either assimilated into EA or Activision or are just making other games. He really created a nothing argument
Except CJ left key part of information about those studios. He makes it seem like the studios got bought out by EA and then died, but he doesn't showed that
these studios worked on games that were later critized for their mediocrity, mostly because their staff got fired from these AAA companies.
-Pandemic Studios worked on "Mercenaries 2: World in Flames", "The Lord of the Rings" and "The Saboteur" before shutting down, with 3 games cancelled.
-Origin Systems worked on "Ultima Online", EA cancelling other projects so they could only work on the MMO for the final years of the studio
-Black Box worked on Battlefield Hardline, a game panned by critics and fans of the franchise, before closing down
- 343 industries had massive layoffs (Also the whole situation with Bungie and Halo)
- Volition made the Saints Row reboot, which not only was it delayed, it came out half finished mess
- Luminous studios only has to games. Final Fantasy XV and Forspoken, massive games but because of Forspoken's failure, they got disbanded
- Lionhead studios was bought by Micrososft in 2005, releasing various Fable games before shutting down in 2016
- Daedalic Entertainment was a German publisher "Bastei Lübbe" (I don't know how tf should I pronounce this) in 2014. They laid of 150 employees and then the studio shut down after the poor performance of the Gollum game
I hope you can do more research on the topic
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vy FFXV DOES NOT COUNT for Luminous. It was made 2 years prior. For somebody telling people to do more research, that's a huge fuck up.
@@jaronmarles941 OK they didn't directly made it I'm sorry I got that wrong. But a lot of people from that studio still helped with the production of the game, so my point still stands
bro tried to disprove my point by proving these studios were sabotaged and shut down by their superiors lol what why did you do that
@Gyrotaku-qt1vy It doesn't stand because they didn't make that as an independent body. They were still part of the machine that is Square Enix, and unlike Forspoken, they still kept them in check.
They were tasked with making DLCs, which got canned during development, resulting in the prior loss. Forspoken was all them, and they fucked up big time. That's when Square, after letting them suck money like a mosquito, actually made a good call.
I can see the DLC part fucking them over before they got canceled, but the rest was 100% Luminous.
This just feels like a man who actually did realize that what he was incorrect, but he was too deep into his opinion not to reconsider his opinion, so he just... went in deeper.
Sounds like the Aslume, is he stupid?
Which one are you talking about?
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vy yeah, i couldn’t tell either lol
@@lisatroiani6119 That was not what I was saying
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vy ok, what were you saying?
See the funniest thing about the BG3 debate is that the argument isn't that the game made a new standard, its that it MET the standards we were asking for in a high production game. It was (mostly) functionable at launch, the game didn't have any micro transactions, you got the game in its entirety with no DLC, it even had transparency with what was going on behind the scenes between consumer and developer. What noodle doesn't want to say is that you have to actually TRY to make your game worse to make what is the typical AAA game, and these companies and developers KNOW these games are trash as is because of this. Because to stay with bare minimum standards would hurt profits
THANK YOU JESUS CHRIST LMAO. Yeah everyone trying to say me and Noodle are trying to posit the same argument not only clearly did not watch the video even despite the table of context, they prove how harmful his argument is by assuming it even remotely addresses the issues prevalent in the industry and instead obfuscates endlessly
@ArchWizardCj doesn't help that he's VERY biased against the average gamer, you can see it as far back as the FPS video he has. Like he acts so asshole-ish to people who work the average 9 to 5 and hate that a 70 dollar triple A game they spent their small paycheck on sucked. The same people HE is asking fir money from. And on that same frame FUCK you Noodle. I worked the full 9-to-5 shift I DECIDE THE SIZE OF THE UNCRUSTUBLES BOX
and nelson only made the argument that people shouldn't expect that from indie games. smh
Hogwarts Legacy has all of this and more and nobody talk about it. Such BS.
@@olafsigursons does it?
Idk the yathzee or whatever is name was did not give it a great review theregore i dont have opinion
I love when smaller channels punch up and land direct hits. Somehow beating an algorithm that is designed to suppress small guys while pushing channels that already have hundreds of thousands or even millions of subscribers.
You should take a look at a video made by a small channel called LupineOs responding to Joseph Anderson's video on Elden Ring.
These videos tend to get a lot of attention because their titles and topics covered in them talk about a big figure on youtube, if it was just them giving their opinion on whatever, they wouldn't get as much attention.
And more often than not, big channels are not willing to listen to what people in their comment sections have to say unless somebody actually bothers making a video response, that part in specific is very frustrating honestly.
I've been getting videos with like 100- views in my recommended
yea idk about that algorithm stuff it seems to go for personality traits and biases it assumes you have similar as well as matching age race and gender ect.
but maybe if it gets enough comments per view that gives it a boost over other stuff? I should see what the current model prioritizes now, all i know is it stops recommending things im interested in as soon as i look up a random video or binge watch something for a day, it thinks i only care about that thing now, Really dumb stuff
@@beenguy5887 sometimes, a video just gets a little luckier.
Why did my comment get hidden? Tf?
Whatever, I'll just write it again.
I'm sure the reason as to why it has been getting a lot of attention is due to the fact the video is responding to a big figure on youtube. If it wasn't for that, it wouldn't be getting as much views, I mean seriously, this is the most popular video on this channel.
The LegacyKilla edited was the slimiest thing I’ve ever heard.
how did the change effect the meaning of the sentence?
It literally changed nothing lol what
@@davidfernelz47:44 to 48:16
@@gavo791147:44 to 48:16
@@superbad8008Still changes nothing. Those few extra words add NOTHING. Noodle was never trying to defend indie devs, he’s defending AAA ones.
I am not against people making money. Even the popsicle puppets being sold for as much as they are doesn't bother me as a useless items for a fan to collect as fans do. Don't, however, lie to the face of the people making it possible for you to make money. This not only goes to Noodle, but for anyone on this platform. Make your videos with respect for your audience, don't flippin lie or steal from others
Gotta agree. I couldn't tell if the complaints of ads and greed were meant to be a joke or serious, but it derailed the video a bit. Like I was lukewarm to the video, got hooked, and then started to get confused and put off when the issue of money making came up. Felt like it was a desperation move to make Noodle seem worse when the evidence of lying was enough. Maybe he was trying to do a joke and do what Noodle by pulling something from nothing. Either way, felt out of place for a mostly strong video calling out someone.
@@13JackDiamond agreed, it was perfectly fine as an argument shattering video, it could end with after debunking each Noodle's point and and it would be better overall imo, the video isn't ruined and I'm glad it keeps getting more views but that last part
@@13JackDiamonduh what are you talking about he is using the money statement as the reason why he is doing this..... I can maybe think it was derailed because it focused on that for far to long than it needed.... But I don't the think it inheritply derailed them main point
@@Bru21424 When is your favorite TH-camr not trying to sell something, have an ad or ask you to donate to Patreon? Heck, even CJ is probably gonna make some ad revenue money when this video inevitably blows up with millions and millions of views. To use the argument, though, of someone only doing it for the money is probably the lowest hanging fruit for why Noodle made his misleading video.
One could argue that CJ is just making this "drama video" or "telling lies" just for easy money because controversy sells or whatever, but we both know its not true. He wanted to get the truth out. But with how much he focused on the subject so late into the video felt weird and out of place. Especially since there wasn't much proof how Noodle's previous videos were full of lies or laziness despite also having ads and whatnot.
If anything, a better argument for why Noodle did what he did was because he's probably trying to get on the good side of game developers. Considering how many he's conversed with and shown sympathy for their struggles, it's more than likely he's trying to get in good favor with them to pitch a game idea or become a designer for one. Something like that.
I hope its obvious I'm not trying to defend Noodle here. I condemn his actions for that video. But after CJs whole video about not blindly accepting everything in a video as the truth or flawless, wouldn't it make sense to view CJ's under that same lense? When it comes down to it, how much money is a person supposed to make so their actions aren't terrible. If Noodle, by choice, made 0 bucks from his video, would that suddenly make his video good? Obviously not. It still be the same terrible video full of strawmen and manipulation.
Apologies for writing a short novel, but if there was one small thing to really criticize in CJs video, I felt it was that. It doesn't change though that he made really good points and did his research for the other 95 percent it. I hope if he makes more videos like this, he'll try to focus on the strongest points more to really keep the audience captivated.
A product being bad value is not a sin in and of itself. I'll just not buy it.
This video feels like it opened my mind to a very scary trend. The "Break the Loop" section in particular made me realize that there's people like that dev guy on Tik Tok who recognize the issues with the system but defend it anyways, because they realize that trying to change it will rock the boat. They think the issue is that gamers don't understand the system, not that the system is abusive and corrupt. It's disturbing to watch him defend the choice to make subpar games by shareholders like it's a necessary evil we just don't understand. It's like he's completely brainwashed.
(Also replying because I can't edit my comment)
It's fucked up to watch Noodle insult and berate the entire TH-cam gaming community (which has been supremely well-spoken and evenhanded in its discussion of this issue) for the simple fact that we don't want to put up with being treated like cattle by the corrupt games industry. For all his lying and misdirection, his argument ultimately comes down to his belief that the state of gaming is somehow justified and that the moral course of action is to keep your head down and suck it up. It's a disgusting display of bootlicking for a completely unfair status quo.
@@TheGeekRex Fuck these arguments, this guys just a sellout and nerd, he has no goodwill to argue with.
This sort of thinking is so common when it comes to other industries in our late-capitalist society. The number of people sleeping is horrifying.
i'd like to know where they got the notion to rock the boat (don't rock the boat, baby).
@@mynamesnotshanekid813 This guy is obviously getting some green from being such a sellout.
"Star Citizen"
That's really all you needed to say in that section lol
It boogles my mind that he calls Noodle a shill but puts Star Citizen on a pedestal. A alpha version of game with in-game monetization that has a bundle for people that wasted 10000 dollars on it
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vybecause it actually came out.
@@WokioWolfy It's not finished though. Come on man
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vy Yeah no i won't lie star citizen is kinda iffy but at least it is out and gives what it advertised even tho it has been completed
As someone who’s watched Noodle’s work and developed trust from his well made previous work; this is the most damning, open-and-shut case on Noodle’s behaviour. The amount of shit he tried to get away with is baffling. Like I’m speechless from just how much damn effort he put in to straight up lie
This video is full of misleading evidence and fails to understand the main argument that noodle tried to make. This is not an "open-and-shut case".
He only showed 8 minutes of noodles video, cherrypicking the parts he thought could be used against him, and not showing the rest of the 16 minutes. If your mad that noodle cut parts of videos, you should also be suspicious of this one. Also I strongly suggest you both watch this and Noodle's video to get a second opinon
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vycope
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vyif a person proves that another person put poop in one of 4 burgers? I do not have to eat all of the burgers this person has made to prove that they aren't all full of poop.
the "cherry picked" examples kinda speak for themselves and set the content creator in a bad light
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vy Having seen both, I can't disagree more.
-"He only showed 8 minutes of noodles video" yes, he showed the parts that are both flawed and critical to his argument that BG3 is a unicorn game. The studios Noodle implies got shut down for making ambitious flops didn't make ambitious flops, they got eaten by corporate juggernauts that then went on to produce unambitious flops. The people supposedly clamoring to make indie studios produce AAA games were not, and were exclusively talking about AAA games failing to meet AAA quality. CJ doesn't have to destroy every word of an argument to undermine the whole thing.
-"If your mad that noodle cut parts of videos, you should also be suspicious of this one" Only showing part of a source isn't the problem. For the most part, the problem wasn't even cutting out parts of videos to change the context.
CJ was establishing the character of Noodle by showing most of those clips, the actual damning evidence is when he edited out part of a video's audio and then spliced the video to make it look like he didn't. That combines with Noodle's established character to point to CJ's conclusion-- Noodle's video was maliciously edited to trick viewers into thinking the people he's arguing against exist.
I don't have to worry that CJ's making up his arguments. Like you said, the Noodle video is right there.
@@Gyrotaku-qt1vy Yes he may have only shown 8 minutes of the noodle video but in no way did he take any of the clips out of context if he dissected the whole video this video would be 3 hours long he already disproved his point there is no need to keep going further.
When CJ exposed Noodles fabrication of evidence, I started to get increasingly upset with every word that came out of Noodles mouth.
yeah people will probably think the title is an overreaction when no, he is doing Belial shit
@@ArchWizardCj Really? I thought it was just the groupthink setting in.
we the poverty gang up in dis bitch
that too im a bit shocked at the meat riding im seeing rn I forgot alot of people are in the cave rn @@SilverState99
Yeah, same. I like Noodle’s vids fine (the two of them I’ve seen), but this is a bad take from him.
The worst part about baldurs gate is that devs from other studios said it raised the standard, not the players.
Game developers are literally not gamers Noodle was also wrong about that too
@@ArchWizardCjWell I think developers can be gamers but because of their position it becomes harder for them due to their work and overall view of "al da lil thins", I think it's fair to assume that they're aren't really as much gamers as they (probably) used to be because again they will just have overall less time to do so or look at things a certain way, shit Hideo Kojima saw halo 3, shot a plant and saw it react, and left the room
@ArchWizardCj some devs do play the game. That's why we get updates faster sometimes on specific things
They can be, but I think he means in the sense of grouping. Single gamer dev opinions don’t represent audience consensus. They aren’t “gamers” in the sense of discussion. Their devs.
Meanwhile, Im playing GTA IV story mode and im having a better time. Baldurs Gate is a matter of taste. Its not for me
One thing about Noodle that I respected was that in his video explaining his process for his animated short he goes on a massive tangent about Adobe’s bad products hindering the video’s process. He essentially says that Adobe doesn’t fix its products because it’s already monopolized lots of software, and doesn’t need to be good to make money. It’s crazy he goes back on that and just lies for corporate benefit. Feels like a stab in the back to not only his fans and people who don’t know much about him, but other creative people he works with
The LegacyKilla clip made my jaw drop, didnt think he would go this far to mislead his viewers
Just wanted to add some additional, maybe important, context: Xalavier Nelson Jr., the guy who's tweet and subsequent tiktoks are heavily featured in Noodle's video, is an indie dev who heads the studio Strange Scaffold, who developed and published titles like Space Warlord Organ Trading Simulator, An Airport For Aliens Currently Run by Dogs, and El Paso, Elsewhere. I don't think it feels correct to simply label him as a corporate defender, especially given his current position (head of an indie studio) isn't really known for its stability, let alone financial benefits. While his argument may have missed the point of the BG3 discourse, I do feel like his intent was to look out for video game devs, the people just like him creating games, as opposed to defending the capitalistic business practices forced by shareholders and businessmen. (Danerade's and NeverKnowsBest's recent videos as of this comment helped guide my perspective on this occasion, good videos to watch for more insight albeit veeeeerrry long)
I have somewhat similar thoughts on Noodle, since he is essentially a self-employed animator in charge of a team and has made videos taking the side of creators; however, I'm still incredibly concerned about him outright editing the clip featuring LegacyKilla. I'm really curious as to why Noodle was so intentionally disingenuous in that example.
Like I said back when this discourse was active: He wasn't entirely wrong, but he was definitely addressing the wrong people. It was a shot from the wrong side of the ship. ALl of that shit you said, Xalavier? Tell that to execs. Not us.
Also then he launced a second bad take on starfield... At which point I was like "okay, one mistake is fine, now you're just an idiot not worth listening to."
It’s not just the LegacyKilla instance where he’s disingenuous though, his entire video is built around a non-existent argument from a strawman that he made up (as were Nelson’s arguments). I would say it was at best lazy to not inform yourself on the conversation before adding your chip to the pot, *however* we can see from the clips he uses in his video that he did do his due diligence in researching the topic at least somewhat and *still* felt the need to create a strawman. I don’t see any reason for doing so unless you’re pushing an agenda. What other reason does he have to deliberately misrepresent these other creators?
@@handsoaphandsoap yes, trully, gamers who complain that journous and gamedev don't want to be held accountable when a game is released poorly doesn't exists. It's all in le head.
isn't that the dev that guilt tripped jerma into continuing to stream a game that jerma wasn't enjoying? that shit was mad cringe.
V
I was a noodle fan when watching this video, thought he had a valid point on how baulders gate shouldn't be the standard for all games and their studios. Watched this video: realized that there was never an argument made for games in general, only for AAA Game studios, which actual checks out now. He openly lied to his audience and took out of context parts of videos that if played with context would completely crumble his point because he & Nelson never had one. It was very upsetting watching this video as a noodle fan and an aspiring animator. Because what you said is true, and how media is stuck in a way were its more difficult to create something with passion and creativity in favor of getting this out to make as much money as soon as possible for the rich pig shareholders, and its upsetting that noodle may be just going down the path of sustainability at the cost of integrity (despite being able to probably hit both avenues cause of his videos like on aspect ratio, fps in animation, crunch in the industry etc etc etc). Im upset as someone who wants to enter the industry of losing the passion and integrity of animation because of the difficulty of being able to have living wages whilst animating (there are unions however and Im getting sidetracked and this videos about the video game industry). That being said Im deeply upset about this information and probably am gonna stop watching Noodle if hes gonna just flat out lie to his audience again and shit on them for potentially not agreeing with his straw-man point. Im also just scared that I'll fall into his shoes, having to suck up to the ones with the money and lie and break trust just to get around and find job opportunities, Im glad networking is a thing at least and Im not the only one who has to fight this system. Great video btw sorry for the long and possibly personal ramble, Im just a goomba.
This is actually what I had thought too.
I got where Noodle was coming from and what Nelson meant, but I felt that Noodle had missed the point and was doing a strawman argument; nobody was asking for every game to be Baldurs Gate 3, we know that can never happen. What we want is GOOD GAMES. We don't want more BG3s from AAA devs, we want more good games from indie devs, and great games from AAA devs.
If every game was BG3, then we would never get games like Animal Crossing New Horizons, Undertale, Metroid Dread, Doom Eternal, Lethal Company, Ghosts of Tsushima etc. Because these are all different games, and they're GOOD games. We want more of these. We don't want every game to be BG3 with BG3 levels of production, we know for many small studios, that is suicide, and for some game devs out there, just not possible because they don't know how to make such a game.
A bit of an unrelated topic, but I have similar feelings towards AI recently.
I like making art and wish to make a comic of some kind in the future, but with AI becoming so rampant recently, I'm seeing more and more people just give up in fear of being buried under auto-generated garbage taking up two thirds of entire websites. And every time a genuine ask for some kind of solution is brought up by me or anyone else, AI bros come flooding in with responses like "adapt or die" "AI's the future, cry about it" or my favorite one, "It's good that artists are losing jobs, they deserve to be homeless".
They're even willing to burn the entire industry, even if it hurts most of the small indie artists (their words, not mine), just because a few shows had "woke" stuff in it.
It honestly is really discouraging, but I am still holding out hope for my future comic for the simple fact that I could have a chance to build a community if at least one person really enjoys it.
@@Mrhellslayerz hold on to hope man, something they're forgetting is AI literally is made from other peoples work blended together to make it seem like its original, usually without the consent of the artist they stole from. AI is theft. Luckily people & studios are creating new ways to stop this with protection clauses and such. It wont last forever, at least in terms of official, higher quality productions, thats what I've seen at least.
I'm with ya, man, as a smalltime artist myself@@Mrhellslayerz
All it takes is one video. People are truly fickle.
All of this, this entire situation, reminds me of Demos. Demos in the Early 2000's were slowly phased out. Arguments at the time stated from developers were something along the lines of "It takes a lot of time to make them" and "It takes away from the development time of the true game." and I think these are somewhat reasonable until you realize you can just take a section of the game and slap a ending screen on it. You know, how demos are now.
Later stated by CEO's and such, once the Demo practice was dead, was far more simple. You have to buy the game to check if you like it. You are far less likely to return it, so we get our money.
This entire situation by extend is the same fucking point they made then but adopted to the entire game. We don't need to fully finish the game if you buy it anyways. Developers cost money and we can save a lot of money by releasing it early.
They Optimized the Money extraction from gamers, now the staff is the one getting "optimized" and the enshittification of videogames will nearly be complete. Soulless, derivative pieces of continuous revenue that are devoid of all merit.
Software Demos were the best thing that could happen to videogames, to have a taste of a game and decide that you want more of it without needing to read or watch reviews or take the risk of losing money buying something you wouldn't like makes for a much better advertisment and practice than the ones we actually have, it makes for a good invitation to try more of the same company and helps to avoid dissapointments, no wonder the original DOOM got so much attention and all that shit, that demo with the first chapter was good enough to be an entire game by itself, but it has two full extra chapters? now that's something i want to pay for.
@@Fernybun Yes. And if you are looking at it from the angle of cash money instead of a craftsman making their tool or a Artist their painting, this practice is completely and utterly madness.
Take Assassin's Creed: Valhalla. It is a lifeless, desolate game with various ways to keep you busy. AC:V's only merit is the fact that Ubisofts art teams are, despite their best efforts, still wonderful. Gameplay wise however it's on the level of a slot machine or maybe your fridge in terms of interactivity. There is, about 15minutes of gameplay in that game, stretched of 100's of hours. In a World where Shareware and Demo's survived such a game couldn't exist. It categorically wouldn't even be made. And even if by miracle it was made, it would be so utterly mocked and ridiculed its Developer and Publisher and Distributor would never hear the end of it.
But that's the whole point, isn't it? AAA Corporate likes us to to choose between two bad options instead of a verity of good options. It's far easier to make something bad and fight with other bad games then it is to compete on the Top of it all.
Besides Ballin' Gate 3 might have made a bunch of money, but it will be dismissed by those in charge not because of it's merit, because it ultimately doesn't matter. It made like 1Billion, moved the needle of the entire DnD Franchise but it didn't make 2 or 3 of 5 billion and is projected to keep generating every quarter for the Shareholders.
Truly, if you follow the VG industries decisions one must not look to games and the output but look at the graphs of the Stockmarket. It's all to make it less up and down and more gradually and continuous up.
Sorry for the long post. but lots on my mind.
Demos are awesome. Kinda hard if your game is built in a way that it's not easy to get rid of stuff, and is easily data-minable (don't want people getting an 80% complete game for a demo that's meant to be 5% of the game, especially in story focused ones), but still
Nono the "Slap an ending" method isn't viable unless the game is also modular enough so that you can nuke the parts of the game you don't want leaked from the demo when the miners arrive
Which is actually quite viable since outsourcing addiction AAA has kinda requires that
Demos are an essential part of not only games, but softwate as a whole. Product owners, managers, and stakeholders get a taste of the product they are investing time and money into so it's the best product it can be. This allows any bugs, missing features, and feedback to be incorporated before the final product. It's actually anti-developer and anti-business to not have demos for stakeholders and consumers. There is no excuse other than pure laziness and deception from corporate game businesses.
Balders Gate actually really helped dnds public image after the OGL debacle at the start of last year
Give it a few more months I'm sure they'll do something to piss away all that good will.
Big games don't fail because they did too much. Big games fail because they do not know what players want
Which then circles back to the first issue. Star Citizen is a good example- it Kickstarted in 2013- since then it scope-creeped to hell and back, to the point that after a decade, the game's still in *alpha*.
In the same time period, RGG studios released 3 mainline games (another one less than a month away), 2 spinoff games, 3 remakes, 1 licensed game, 1 DLC sidestory and 1 standalone sidestory game.
@@arahman56 Which is funny because as big and delayed out Star Citizen (or that FPS game they wanted to make as a spin-off,) it's still got a loyal fanbase and even the haters or those meming on-it somehow keep it relevant.
*Don’t care what gamers want. They don’t care what we want because they’re not making games for gamers, they’re making games for investors and ESG tycoons.
Not to mention that AAA games in the west are not made by gamers. They’re made by activists and businessmen
@@newdivide9882 What even the fuck are you trying to say.
It's not that they don't know. It's that they hate gamers and want to spite them.
I had to rewatch Noodle's video for this one. I don't remember my thoughts from the first time I watched it but I knew something was wrong when he so passive-aggressively belittled gamers AKA HIS AUDIENCE the entire video. but even with the context of this video's existence i admit i didnt think very hard or try to criticise it, something I should do more regularly. I watched the official podcast video and couldnt even remember that it had been taken out of context for fucks sake. and even then, i didnt notice anything off until close to the end. holy shit, he played us for fools. im almost impressed but im even more disgusted.
That’s what Noodle does. I genuinely can’t make it through any video criticising any group of people because he’s so uncharismatically arrogant. He’s incapable of making even a simple point without passive aggressively belittling people that disagree with him or forcing le awkward TH-camr humour. On top of thinking he’s making some grand statement about something, he often completely misunderstands the people he’s (still often rightly) critiquing. His videos are genuinely insufferable to me I have no clue how people enjoy them. It’s vitriol and condescension masked behind passion so that he can continue to paint others around him as idiotic cartoon villains.
Actually me, beat for beat. The way he said she was just so…hrmmmmMM, you know? And I never could piece it together
Quote from a Reddit post about this video:
"When I first saw how people were saying that Noodle is a terrible person because of this video, I thought that maybe the video had some good points and decided to watch the video.
It did not have good points about Noodle, and I'm 90% sure anyone that says it does skimmed through it and didn't actually watch it.
I'm going to be brief about this as I don't want to spend my entire day breaking down the video so here are some quick problems:
-Most of the video feels like a twitch stream with certain voices over parts edited in. It's presented in an incredibly unprofessional way. -CJ takes a lot of Noodle's jokes as personal attacks. So huge swathes of the video is just him insulting Noodle (especially near the end). -The crime that CJ acusses Noodle of is what he changed the context of a TH-camr to fit his argument. He shows the clip that Noodle changed, says the clip Noodle changed it, but doesn't explain WHAT Noodle changed. Instead, he yells at the top of his lungs for "comedic effect". (Remember this one because it'd be important later.)
This, by itself, is already a big problem, especially when it sends harassment towards someone that doesn't deserve it. However, ArchWizardCJ doubles down on this. And you can see that with how he handles criticism. He posted the video on another sub, hoping that it'd get him some attention. When the sub's residents asked him how this was relevant to the sub, he reacted very normally. As in, normally for a 10 year old.
I will not include the link to the post to prevent brigading, but I will feature some of CJ's classy responses:
"I mean if you pulled my cock out of your mouth I wouldn't feel inclined to remind you its still there sir. You are replying to me, I was the one who commented first, but fair. Ill end things here. Blessings and have a nice life."
"1 - I dont give a fuck honestly. Brother is a colloquial term Idk if you have autism or you've never had banter with real people this is a very weird thing to disrespect me on
2 - you're whatever I wanna call you you havent earned my respect. You're talking to me like you have authority off 3 updoots. You must've shitted when you saw that
3 - I was very respectful , you people disrespected me for no reason. You're a fucking loser pedantically attacking my argument with adhominems claiming it has no validity and my video just hit 50k views. If it was truly as vapid and shallow as you claim, why is it receiving the support it is receiving? I don't care lmao go do something with your life instead of pretending your shit is hot because a bunch of pathetic losers like you decided to antagonize me for sharing a video lol. Bro really asked me to provide HIM a reason for posting my video here like he's [REDACTED]. Suck my fucking dick with that unearned entitlement broski. You redditors are weird as fuck"
"im not dealing with its backlash, the video is doing great. this subreddit is just dogshit lol I stopped caring after the first few people accused me of things I didnt do. Appreciate the message doe"
Now I'll give CJ some credit: He TRIES to argue back about how his video is the mind-blowing video he's making it out to be, but he just doesn't understand what others are saying. He uses a lot of big words but has the patience of a 10 year old.
He's not limited to Reddit either. He can be spotted in Noodle's comment section or on Twitter ARGUING WITH STRANGERS. As I am typing this, I found a reply from him on his post from 14 days ago throwing insults at someone. He replied literally 3 hours ago.
This post isn't really to defend Noodle's points about the Triple A game industry. It's to show that CJ is very sensitive to anything that disagrees with him. Hell, that's what the original video of his is about. He disagrees with Noodle so he had to exaggerate the shit out of it yo make himself look good.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I hope Noodle can get over this hurdle. CJ, if you're reading this, I don't hate you. I think you have the best intentions, but don't really know how to handle this. If you have any intellectual honesty, you'd take down the video. This is absolutely embarrassing."
This entire post talks about literally everything but the substance of the video
@@nightsider6478The substance of the video is that Noodle fabricated a reference to support his flimsy points to make it seem like his argument has external credibility and support. He literally removed necessary context that would not have supported his argument.
He even went out of his way to frame it so that it appears less deceitful. What Noodle did was precisely antithetical to what citing or quoting someone is supposed to do with your argument. This fact, taken with all the other points that CJ made, emphasize that not only is Noodle devoid of any substance himself, but that he's willing to deceive his entire audience to create the facade of credibility, and honestly it scares me that he's able to do this so nonchalantly.. It makes me wonder how many others are like this.
His army of redditors would rather say smug shit like "pride cometh before the growth" when people try to hold Noodle accountable for this because le funni cartoon man.
See, this is what happens you report stuff with a bias instead of just present the facts. I get it, its youtube, not a lot of people are gonna care about it if you just are like, these are the facts, this is what Noodle did, end of story. You have to add fantasticalness to it, and while the points stand that he changed context, you attacking people who disagree is super unprofessional. If you are gonna report stuff with humor injected into it, that's fine. If you wanna scream and add funny sound effects, great, that's fine. But remember we are all entitled to opinions and even those who agree with your points on a video don't agree with your handling. I don't support channels who just dog on people instead of having an emphasis on the facts. I watched the whole thing, and yeah, you are right about the base points, but it feels like screaming for a large chunk of the points and just like personally attacking Noodle. I don't stand for Noodle, or any creator for that matter, but like, focus on creating content that can be entertaining and informative, not over the top content that only a small demographic can click with. If you disagree, focus on that because that is your thesis. Also if people disagree, take it, understand you have two differing opinions and be respectful. Don't stoop to other people's level and just hate on them because they may disagree. If they are being shitty, be the bigger person. You have an audience, don't create an environment where people see what you do and think its okay to do it cause they're favorite creator is. If you are a journalist in this degree, uphold the basic principles of it. Put aside bias, stick to fact and go from there. And remember, you cultivate your audience, be the creator you want to inspire others to be.
This video deeply upsets me, I did feel the vibe of his videos change a bit but I never suspected that he was lying and cherry picking context. Welp, time to share this around!
More people need the know how horrible this shit is!
Sad thing is noodle most likely won't care as much unless this blows up, he already made lots of money over the years.
I think he is really biased view on the industry (devs good gamers bas) since his crunch video
rip, i really liked his fps video and the style it had, he just kinda devolved into a fluent speaker in yapanese and complains on twitter
it seems like he probably genuinely does owe a lot in taxes... he probably had no idea how to manage that sort of income and fucked it up before his family was set.
Those are death throes, and he will not be the only victim, sadly
Noodle, while I enjoy some of his videos, comes off as too online. Devs deserve the world even if they release a barely functional product is a bad take 100% of the time, but some people think the only other position is setting up game dev death camps.
Yes, games are hard to make, but when the game doesn't work that doesn't matter much to me as the end consumer. Sometimes the devs are bad and it was completely their fault, sometimes the publisher is at fault, but nobody is blameless when a bad game comes out.
This really saddens me. About Noodle, yes, but also my own willingness to believe the 'arguments' he made. I guess I've agreed with him a lot in the past, and that made me less willing to think critically about it. Even in general, I've noticed that I'm not thinking critically about the media I'm consuming or the opinions I'm hearing, so I've been trying my hardest to build that muscle back up and hopefully get a more objective view on things. For this entire hour, though, it was like my whole body was consumed by helplessness after watching the allegorical spine I thought I had collapse like a stack of cardboard boxes. I genuinely just don't feel smart enough to handle public discourse, or philosophy, or whatever.
Ya know i think im right there with you brother.
The measure of a man is not the mistakes he makes. The measure of a man is how he responds when he finds out he made a mistake. None of us are perfect, we're all just striving for perfection. Be kind to yourself, and grow on your time.
If you want a random internet person's advice: Try and figure out what you believe for yourself. Think deeply on what you think, and why you think it. Take some time to explore your own mind. Try and find the fundamental beliefs you have.
@@dojelnotmyrealname4018 This and remember no one is immune to having the wool pulled over their eyes. No matter how clever, no matter how principled, getting fooled happens to the best of us.
@@LunamrathP Mainly because people don't have the energy and time to fact-check everything that comes their way.
Yup I totally get that. In past I too wasn't questioning much and just believed e.g. film critics blindly until one day a friend said how much he enjoyed films and games that have aren't liked by critics or even the majority of consumers online.
Since then I'm no longer saying good or bad game/film. I just say, I enjoyed it not, because that what matters in the end.
Noodle is constantly playing devils advocate because he absolutely despises being associated with anything involving the word “gamers”, despite playing games and making commentary on games he wholly believes he is above all the “stinky gamer discourse”.
TLDR, Noodle believes himself a holier than thou gamer that truly understands the medium on a deeper level than everyone else.
Anytime someone uses "gamers" to demean people or make their arguments look bad, it's a red flag imo. There are literally billions of gamers worldwide, you can't just call billions of people "stupid stinky nerds" and not expect people to not trust you. Those parts of Noodle's video struck me as really weird
2:39 actually you cut out the exact part of the video where noodle says “I’m not going to focus too much on NELSON (as in the guy himself) but instead I wanna focus on what he SAID” so no, his statement was not contradictory, you just cut out the part that makes the statement un contradictory
his statement is literally contradictory when you focus on defending his argument when you state the focus isnt on him go back to school lmao
@@ArchWizardCj What Noodle was trying to say was focusing on what a person said and not on them personally. Something you can't differentiate
@@ArchWizardCj talking abt what someone said is different to talking abt the person themself
@CrimblotheBimblo-yd7jn you're a moron and not to be taken seriously this is seriously not a hard concept to grasp stop calling me stupid to project your own stupidity onto me lol
@@ArchWizardCj instead of making an actual comeback with a counter argument you just call him a stupid moron, damn you really got him there /sarc
My jaw literally dropped 3 times in a row during this video, every single point got more and more unbelievable until the evidence just hits you like a freight train. The editing of LegacyKilla's clip really sold it for me, and everything else was just icing on the cake.
Thank you for repelling misinformation and making sure people know right from wrong even in times of uncertainty.
Your editing is phenomenal as well for a serious video like this, and it definitely deserves to blow up so people can know the truth!
Wow, when I got to the editing section it really was egregious, you even can't make the arguement that noodle is just misguided when he deliberately lies and mischaracterizes in order to push his agenda. Thank you for making this and letting people know.
The fucking ego on this guy. Inconceivable. He talks about how everyone else is "misleading millions of people" whereas he's doing exactly that _and he knows that._
He also starts off insulting "gamers" and then ends by complimenting them to get them back on his side.
He's not even good at manipulating. He's an idiot.
What's ironic is this video literally does the same thing with noodle video. Noodles video was never about these random clips. It was purely about Nelson's video and comments, IGN's video and article, and how he thinks we got here. Removing the clips doesn't change the videos point, message and overall substance
@@lifetake3103 If these clips don't matter and aren't part of the overall point, why would he edit them at all? If they aren't important, surely he wouldn't have spliced them in this way.
@@lifetake3103 He doesn't, a large portion of this video is about Nelson's arguments, he shows IGN's video of which had major context removed. He directly challenges each of Noodles arguments and the clips are important as they are Noodles evidence. They are Noodles evidence that "This is what gamers are saying" especially people with a lot of influence and if he has to deliberately edit and splice clips in order to make that point then he is being manipulative. Removing those clips removes the only indication his arguments had any value.
Wow. What a magnificent chain of people overreacting to people overreacting to people overreacting to a certain video game that wasn't even released at the point of the first overreaction in the chain.
Also, it seems like every link in the chain completely misses the point of the previous one.
1. One guy says that not all games should be big, and that game developers are underappreciated and often needlessly antagonized. Well, that's true. He also talks about how people would now set unrealistic standards because of that one new game. Weird, but okay. Doesn't invalidate the point.
2. Someone else says that a lot of the modern games are released in a sorry state because the companies aren't concerned with making games playable and fun. That's also true. But that in no way contradicts the point made in the previous argument, does it?
A long write, but CJ, I hope you read this, man.
I love how the malicious edits bit slowly turned you into a ghoul with how insane that misinformation was edited into existence XD. Nicely done.
When I found his channel, I found Noodle funny, but from this video I learned in important lesson. When I start using a youtuber as a source of information, I need to reevaluate if that youtuber has properly illustrated their source. Hbomb and you both cite your sources, and give detailed examples without cutting corners.
It sucks because Noodle really is suppose to be the funny youtube man, so when he tries making an analysis video that is going off of things that aren't just his opinion, he leans towards dangerous territory. It's like that school assignment where you try to make an argument, but in your research you discover your argument isn't accurate, or a source you wanted to use - one you perceived to be a smoking gun - *turns out to have the information that disproves your argument. So, in juvenile desperation, you manipulate that information so that your argument remains sound*, and all that work you did doesn't go to waste.
Noodle could have simply looked into Nelson's "fact-spewing", and perhaps even develop a video that shows both sides of the issue. He could've had his takes and not be smug about it, but try to show that Nelson's not correct. Instead, *Noodle did what **_I_** did with him, and watched his video and took it at face value, without looking into it myself.*
Thanks, CJ. I think the internet is moving in a very interesting direction. The grifters and the bullshitters are being exposed, fact checked. Hopefully lessons will be learned for both the creators in question and their fans. Or, like James Somerton, they will leave the platform entirely and the internet will be better for it.
Noodle took time out of his day to personally argue with me about this exact misdirection and I'm very glad more people know about this. You caught way more than I did too, I thought Noodle was just coming in hot and uneducated, but he was downright modifying the facts to support his conclusion
wait, seriously? When?
@@ArchWizardCj yeah, in the comments section of the "why games are too big" video
@@playr1077 im not finding it, can you copy paste the exchange to here, so i can then put it in the control f window?
@@gaminggaming.6071 sure, starting line is "I feel like you're really missing the point by focusing on Xalavier's opinion and not the general response developers have given to Baldur's Gate 3"
my comment has 1 like 3 months ago so good luck finding it
@@playr1077 thanks bro
As someone who really liked Noodle's content, this really hurts to see. Thanks for shedding light on people like me who didn't fact check everything in his videos. You're a good an honest dude.
I just realized an issue with Noodle's gamer rhetoric he uses in his video, Noodle has respect for people that make games, but not for the people that play games.
I'm gonna let you figure out the problem there.
It’s not a bad rhetoric as the majority of gamers are consumers since cod games and sports games are the top sellers. Causals do count as gamers but not the ones you see on the internet
At specifically 54:45, your argument lacks because he spent a lot of the money Techland gave him on that on the production of his ad, animators on TH-cam can only make 3-6 videos A YEAR, this hurts themselves in the algorithm, and thus they get a lot less money on top of often times having to pay a team of creators, that's why he had to start making more money, because he probably had to make money back from that animated short film that was sponsored, it was his first short film and he lost money on it, so he's probably just trying to make that back.
The ‘freak out’ at the 45 minute mark literally made my jaw drop. That’s both hilarious and also really just… ew. Thank you for making this video, I’ll do my best to avoid people like noodle in the future :)
Not to defend the SR reboot, but if I'm not mistaken, the parent company wanted to reboot the series but make it more "open to a new culturally alert" demographic, and then closed them down because they couldn't make their poor decision work. I saw somewhere that the original idea was closer to the first game in tone and scale.
oh so another god awful parent company forcing a studio to make garbage. Good find lol
I thought they did such an awful choice willingly, because they were all acting like it.
@@Chicken-Cha-Chas Parent company told them to sell the new games change in direction. Closure of the studio I bet was always on the table.
It's hilarious when a company wants to take a game which was essentially the GTA that didn't take itself seriously and think they can make it better by adding crap it doesn't belong in it. I'd rather take all the money it took them to make the reboot and see if it's possible to make THQ come back instead.
How the fuck did they see Josh Whedonification as "opening the game to a new culturally alert demographic"?
Every failed game fails for different reasons, but usually the one consistent factor in these large profile failures in triple-A is poor management of development from terrible leadership, whether that be on the publisher or development studio level. The scale of a project just magnifies the failings of those in-charge, as the larger the studio or amount of work is, the more solid the direction and organisation need to be to mitigate the inefficiencies that come with organising hundreds or thousands of people between several offices to work with incredibly complex systems and technologies. I guess the point of wanting smaller scale games is that, if you can't get rid of shit management, you can at least ensure the fuck-ups of management don't have as large of a chance to hurt the project or their developers, or to at least ensure the sunk cost from a failure isn't enough to lead to a studio closure or massive lay-offs that ensure the studio is incapable of fixing their game entirely or even operating at the scale required of a triple-A studio. *cough cough* _343i_ *cough cough*
I have done my damnest to post my comment, either in one huge one or even broken up into one with enough replies to contain everything, and every time I try it keeps not working or even posting *A* comment. So ill summarize and have a link to the google doc.
1) You never prove that the discussion around BG3 creating a raised standard didn't exist prior to Nelson's post. The circlejerk tweets dont prove this.
2) By pointing out argument strategies used to manipulate people, it ironically makes your video look like you are doing just that until the point of the proven edited clips, but it returns to this again after that. It comes off as you doing the exact same thing to get people to believe you that noodle did. Its like your video is entirely designed to hold someone's attention no matter what you say, and while I dont completely distrust your information or video, this can be a dangerous video tactic and its alarming that youre using it in a similar way the youtuber youre talking about does.
3) Noodle agrees with you, me, and everyone in the comments about game quality. Your title, while technically accurate, I believe has led many people to believe that noodle thinks AAA games are good when he never says this or implies it, whether or not he defends AAA companies (inadvertently or not, and I also still disagree that he does this in any way).
4) Whether or not this argument is a strawman, he does have a point lmao. You also blatantly ignore that he says that a game doesnt need to be a mega game to be "good, meaningful, well made, stable games at launch." I remind everyone again the he literally agrees with yall about games. Noodle also further says that BG3 doesnt have the best quality in act 3 either and its not a perfect game.
5) The Nelson v Destin segment felt completely unnecessary for the entire video and so was the segment that can be equated to character assassination towards noodle. You know which one
6) You have your own strawman argument in the video at 11:14. In your words, "we do not care."
7) All evidence used in this video outside of the out of context clips section is all but. Theyre either tweets that prove nothing, reddit posts that even disclaim themselves, or the google trends graphs that you dont even properly do searches for. The entire part with Battlefront 2 and The Last Jedi is also completely irrelevant because the movie is a known cultural anomaly and your point of proving a movie hyping up a game fails because the hype for Battlefront 2 started before its respective movie. This is more in depth in the google doc.
8) I agree with you on a lot of things. However, I also feel there are a lot of mistakes in your video. As both of us are Noodle fans, I think we can agree that the fact that this happened at all is odd. Your question is why would he lie, but my question is why would he make a falsified video that is so easy to fact check. The way he keeps reiterating that people should do their own research in his video keeps sticking out to me, because ironically, no one who watched did. Part of me thinks he expected this too, and its possible this was his reason to be brave enough to do a video like this. I dont know if he intended this or not but I cant stop thinking about it. Something is going on with bro and I definitely agree with it probably being money problems.
9) I hope noodle responds to this. Theres no way he feels good about what hes done, even if it was for money. He's always seemed like the guy to value integrity and think about the people who suffer from other shitty people so this is extremely out of character for him.
I have the google doc here: ( docs.google.com/document/d/1mpeJmOLJnzLqvDI8OMnurbU3yVzwaDyynsjTU86hq5g/edit ) for more elaboration on all points and anything I omitted for the hope of this godforsaken comment actually going up this time. CJ, if you read this (and more hopefully the google doc), I hope you found my comments constructive, I really did try and it took like 3 hours to write the whole planned comment that this is a summary of.
just went on the same journey you did, even down to my comment not posting.
honestly i went even further, that the part of legacykilla's video that he cut didn't even leave out important context. at the very least there was no ill intent with it.
going to bed now
Thanks for having actual nuance. This video is frustratingly poor and does a bad job of conveying the actual issue.
Never trust youtube commentary channels, their all losers who think their goddamn superheroes.
I'm a Noodle fan. I didn't notice any issues with the video you talked about upon first watch, but I also didn't know much about the situation. Your points were excellently made and I'm glad this popped up in my recommended. I still think that Noodle's earlier videos like his videos about animation or crunch culture are good, and those are why I started liking him, but I also did see the things you mentioned about how he had been asking for money a lot in recent videos. It makes me sad, he clearly has, or maybe had, passion for the things he used to talk about, but I guess that's how it goes
You literally said yourself you have no context to this, please fucking research what this discussion originated because this guy has very much made some of the dumbest arguments I’ve ever seen
Noodle falsely accused Dishonored Wolf of being a predator in one of his videos, when the fact are they were both teenagers with a 2-3 year gap and the girl lied to him about her age. Noodle has yet to apologize for false accusations.
Even his inciting animation video is basically just down to "doing more frames per second is a LOT of work, and we have lives to live and need to get paid and no-one historically has been paying for that, and none of us have the patience to properly key for 60fps, and we already like the traditional framerates" And then just a bunch of shouty gaslighting about how lower framerates are objectively better because tradition. I mean the actual argument was just a precursor to the AI art debate, but that's a whole other ball of wax.
At that point I admired his skill and tenacity, and he usually isn't entirely wrong about the technical aspects and why certain things are important to consider: but knew to mostly disregard his conclusions and points.
@@Luxembourgish who the fuck are you on about
@@scottwatrous that video came out way before AI art became a controversy and you also didnt watch the video because he very clearly says 60 frames per second is not inherently bad. but you can't force a clip into an interpolator and expect it to be smooth, because it fucks up almost every technique used in animation. because its designed in 24 frames per second with no intention to increase that
I was actually pretty receptive to what Noodle had to say in that video until I actually played Baldur's Gate 3 and it was immediately obvious how much the game and the devs respected me and my time as a player when other games simply don't.
it's amazing what being lucky can accomplish, isn't it?
@@snowballeffect7812 What do you mean?
@@tachobrenner I mean larian studios was in a particular situation that allowed them to create BG3, financially, talent-wise and timing-wise.
@@snowballeffect7812 Financially you say?
@@thatoneswarmdrone6409 yes, financially. they were able to sell a 30% stake to tencent to continue operations.
Listening to you surgically and precisely cut through his argument with such ferocity was a like cold shower: I didn't want it, but lord knows I needed it. I'm a big fan of this era in TH-cam, where content creators will call out much larger and cemented people for shitty practices, and see the hundreds upon thousands realize "hey wait a minute this dude fucking sucks!" I pray that your video, as well as hbomer's on plagiarism, will cause a new standard in how we view content creators and make them actually make things that aren't just stealing or genuine gaslighting.
did the ending change? i watched this video at the start of the year, and I remember the very end point doing that catering meme of "but in the defense of noodle-" and the video ends or something. I FEEL LIKE IM HAVING A FEVER DREAM WHERE WAS THAT
That literally never happened
@ArchWizardCj holy huhhh, I could've swore I even saw a comment on it. great video though man. seriously respect you.
"Did I ever love a TH-camr so much you trusted their word at face value?"
Hell no. Current video included.
maybe not but the evidence he showed can easily be researched, especially the audio he removed from other videos to use them as straw men for his arguments
there's a portion of weirdos who's first instinct is to operate in bad faith @@Darkworldwolf
@@ArchWizardCj tbh he only said he was critical of every video which isn't inherently bad and it's kinda hypocritical to call him a weirdo when you're the one saying we should be critical of noodle. (I don't support noodle and haven't watched the video yet I'm just crolling in the comments because this situation is interesting).
@ArchWizardCj They're not weirdos. They're the people who should be striving to see more of.
I also didn't take this video at face value and I found the presentation insufferable here and there. But youtube has made it easy to find the highlight and I found the hard evidence and went and looked up one of them and saw that it's not curated. So yeah, I'm with you on this, but only because what you say and show is legit, not and not because I owe you something or revere you or some actual weirdo shit.
Yes but only the official Walmart TH-cam channel
Ima be real idk who tf noodle is
Same but vid AMAZING
U know, the chicken noodle.
Me neither, but now I wonder who's financing him to spout all that.
Me neither, good video though
He is the funny guy on Please Stop Talking
The sad thing about Battlefront 2 is that as soon as the game got to where it should have been at release, they abandoned it for 2042.
it keeps happening. even if these games get post launch support by the time they get to a good state, they lose support for the next game. its whats gonna happen with halo infinite and what happened with halo 5.
"You know what happened to all these other studios? EA-"
Let me stop you right there bucko. No need to waste your breath. The moment you mentioned EA, everyone watching this should have instantly known where this was going, and if they didn't, they live in a fucking box. Sadly, a lot of people do live in boxes, so I'm glad to see another dive into why EA is the ABSULTE SCOURGE OF THE GAMING SPACE. The things I wish were done to it I dare not put into words for the sake of the innocent.
The fact that one of them was the og creator of Battlefront II, one of the best fucking experiences of online play I've had and was incredibly sad to see forgotten, makes me so fucking mad.
Its actually nuts how much effort it takes Noodle to redirect a narrative this hard. It sucks to see another creator drag his name through the mud, but audiences ought to know when a creator is pulling some sort of stunt. Thank you so much for getting this together.
Oh man this video does need to blow up not just to unmasked the truth but also to share more awareness of this
yeah im ngl im sick of how things are rn I dont want virality more so I just want this shit to end lmaooooooooooo
@@ArchWizardCj you also need to blow up because you post fantastic videos either way
@@ArchWizardCj you’ve apparently been working on this for 6 months and gone homeless to make this video… and yet you just now decided that you don’t want the attention?
bro I need you to not be retarded for 5 seconds and explain how its possible I worked on a video for 6 months when the video its in response to is 3 months old@@mrj1897
I need to come to the defense of Daedalic, because it is genuinely a sad situation. It's a studio that is truly beloved by it's fans.
They were a small studio, that self published (so you could say maybe indie), that made their mark with small 2D Point and Click Adventures.
But apparently one day the CEO wanted to make a AAA game around the LOTR-franchise. And there was one problem, he didnt want to make the necessary investmest. And the Team being relatively small and consisting mainly from new Talent\ Interns, it was supposed to fail.
There is a great video by Game Two about the Gollum situation. It is in german, but it has subtitles, and i highly recomend it, as it shows a "great" view behind the scenes.
55:22 Did you watch the video? most of it is just him taking about behind the scenes process and ranting about adobe
"there is a paid sponsorship and a direct link to his patreon"
@@geek_yy he said the video is talking about how much money he made but if you watch the video it's not
@@yaj_5002 think his point about the sponsorships does stand tho
it just hit me that this whole narrative is about confusing corporate needs with personal needs and shifting the perspective to corporation trough person, so a person would always see the corporate needs as their personal needs and defend the corporate establishement as if the companys growth and success is their personal interest (basically the reason why people lie for money)
this whole process is showing in media and workspaces everywhere, it is a narcisistic attitude against yourself, given to you by punishment and reward through said companys
yeah literally two talking mouthpieces lol and 1 million people bought into it
Nintendo fans when the company bulldozes an orphanage because a 3 year old drew mario on the wall with crayon
Sony fans when they sacrifice 5 studios for a new spiderman @@G4RYWithaFour
@@ArchWizardCj Xbox fans when Microsoft buys ActiBliz expecting something to change in the way they're making games.
tru@@FatalFrostbyte29
There’s a lot of gaming content creators that love to dunk on gamers… just makes you call into question their intentions. Those types spend too much time justifying crappy products, and deriding anyone that wants better from the industry.
As if asking for the bare minimum means we want developers whipped because that requires more, and terrible publishers are already garbage to their employees, so asking for better might make their situation worse. We can’t control that, and justifying bad games won’t help those developers. It ALSO means that if you want those devs helped, justifying the current state will only reinforce it to those publishers. Because if that’s part of their pipeline and they’re able to get away with it, why would they change?
yeah thats why I get so annoyed when I see dweebs in my comments going "but what about da worker" you clearly don't give a shit about the worker if you dont wanna address the actual reasons why this keeps happening you just are hoping the problem will go away on its own
Pretty much. Always felt like the "gamers amirite" humor just boils down to corporate dicksucking and to stop being critical and let some white dude who spends too much time on Twitter tell you what to think of the industry. What do you want, the people who are passionate about games to not be passionate about it?
@@ArchWizardCj I think the problem is that critical thought about AAA game culture doesn't create people who care about AAA game culture it creates people who are disillusioned with capitalism and modern society. Being aggressively neoliberal is like a requirement for remaining focused on game dev culture specifically.
honestly true lmao, Its impossible to not instantly get mad at capitalism when you realize it is the ONLY reason video games are like this @@maskedkoopa6252
Yeah, The minecraft community will throw such a fit if you criticsism how poorly mojang has handled things acting like more than 30 minutes a work of day on the game is slavery. Modern gaming doesn't want to make a good game, they want to convince everyone the garbage they make is good and if you point it out as garbage your a heretic.
9:30
Ayy, no, Cyberpunk was ANNOUNCED in 2012, they literally released:
- The Witcher 3,
- The Witcher 3 - Hearth of Stone
- The Witcher 3 - Blood and Vine
- Gwent
- Thronebreaker
before Cyberpunk. It's obviously pretty hard to gauge when developement really starts on a game, but the time in which that game was effectively made was 4.5 years (after the release of The witcher 3) according to most articles I've read. It also makes sense, logically, CDPR is an independent dev team that up until very recently only had a single studio, so they couldn't feasibly been working on 2 AAA games at once.
Active development on Cyberpunk didn’t begin until 2016
huh, you got your first fact wrong about his video. devs complained about how good BG3 were saying "that is a new standard that we cant reach and that gamers cant ask for that"...... after watching even a lil bit of this video, it shows that you dont know what you are talking about. you brought up Star Citizen as a mega project, and it is. but its not like BG3. or any game. it shouldnt be sustainable besides the fact that its an extremely expensive game. ships can cost $100 or more. plus, its already out. why are you trying to compare BG3 and SC?? so dumb
I remember watching noodle's video and just thinking I disagree with him, but said whatever and moved on with my day. But damn now that I know all this, what a pos
Same, he never disarmed my argument "Gamers want a good game, no matter its size/scope," so I never gave it much thought.
But to see how he fabricated evidence & context, backhanded insults, etc.
Fuck that guy.
Honestly same. Glad this video was made.
ngl in the beginning I just thought he just missed the point as to why people loved bg3 so much, not because it´s a big game but a game made out of love, but then I saw all this and just got pissed
I feel like Noodle should have focused more on companies like square enix who have such horribly high and unrealistic expectations of sales that they see games that do well as being failures. But instead he focused on demonizing gamers because we're in 2016 and everyone knows if you play a video game you're dumb and unappreciative and don't have a right to an opinion about a 60 dollar purchase you made with your own money.
The drama around XVI has been mind boggling. The game was fun, it sold well for a PS5 exclusive, it'll sell better when PC version comes out and people who didn't want to spend $500 on yet another console. It was polished, it had flaws, but they were mostly design decisions, not real bugs (aside from the ongoing FPS issues.) And yet SE corporate is crying because it didn't make up for the crater in their budget that Forspoken caused.
@@katarhalso lets not Forget avengers lololol. Ff16 was a really solid game.
Alright, very nice to see some counter points raised in this video. I do have to say the tone of the video makes it really hard to watch unless you're really into the whole watching people burn thing. A bit less sarcasm with goofy voices and less discord calls with friends that agree with what you're trying to say anyway because they're your friends would really elevate this video from an *_EPIC DEBUNK BURN COMPILATION FREE PS5_* to a very well layed out and investigative video essay, which, at its core, it is.
Ok, about the money section, a few points to be devils advocate (which I will preface by saying I don’t disagree with your point, $30 for 3 Popsicle Puppets is ridiculous), however:
- Shipping costs are a thing
- In the money video, he was expressly talking about while he was making the animated ad, it was a. Almost entirely a passion project that just happened to be an ad, and b. They were really running out of money towards the end of the project and Noodle had to pay some of the expenses out of pocket, and the sponsorship didn’t cover everything.
- The taxes video was just a merch ad. Every TH-camr does those. That one just had a theme. After that I think part of the joke was when Noodle was asking for money, he’d just ask for money.
Again, not disagreeing. But I think you also deprived some of the context of the theory you were proposing.
Moreover, I don’t think it’s entirely appropriate for you to have spend about 10 or so minutes armchair psychoanalyzing Noodle. That feels unnecessary and stooping to his level. Allow us to make our own inferences, but if you wish to maintain your integrity as an artist, maybe don’t psychoanalyze people like that. Because the truth of the matter is that if you try and do that, you’re being parasocial, and you’re going to be in some capacity wrong. And if you’re dedicating a lot of time in your video covering that topic, it means you’re taking it seriously, something no one should ever do.
I agree with some of your points, I really do. But I also feel your behavior towards the end of this video is hypocritical.
Edit: I’m gonna leave this up, but maybe I was a little too harsh. Still, I think you beat the horse a few times after it died.
Fully agree with this comment. I loved the video, however the second half had a significant shift in quality to me. Nonetheless since he is a smaller TH-camr, you can only expect that he’d learn from this. Glad you pointed this out!
Holy shit. Thanks. I actually left a comment on Noodle's video praising his "research". This is what years of listening to long-form content passively has done to my attention span and critical thinking. I am once again putting myself on the path to healthy doubt about everything. Hopefully it won't grow into more cynicism, but as a gamer, that's my default these days.
Thanks, Archwizard. Hope you grow so much on here or wherever you are that you get the chance to grift us all as well, and then choose NOT to.
I legitimately just wanna make art and help guide our cultural conversations in the right direction lol
You should start your new critical thinking path by reading the original tweets, and then watching the IGN and Noodle videos carefully, trying to discern what the authors were doing for yourself. Otherwise all you'll have done is replaced one "think for me master" with another.
Just an update on this... I reached out to Noodle to credit both the clips from Actman and Legacykilla's channel and he has deleted them.
Noodle is about to hit the wall really badly😢
essay videos are the garbage of youtube. Don't let them turn your brain off.
If long-form content did that to you, wait til you find short-form content aka twitter and tiktok, lmao
It's never really the form of the content but the one watching it. You can be critical doing anything or you can just shut up and listen. Most do the second primarily because they learned that shit at school. Shut up and listen. The consequence is people believe everything that 'makes sense to them'.
Without realizing that what makes sense to them changes dramatically the more they truly engage with opposing opinions.
Something people are able not to do while talking directly to others by using straw man arguments and worse. An argument from authority aka the scientists said is a valid argument in todays day and age. But it's the same as the priests say. Just the institution has changed.
People are sheep and like already mentioned if you replace one source with another nothing really changes. You are still an npc repeating talking points without understanding the details.
This is a very well articulated video.
Best example I can give is you going to a gourmet chef (Chef A) paying him 200$ for a piece of steak and when you get your order you see a burnt piece of chicken and then was cut in half and is sold separately for another 100$.
Then you go to Chef B pay 200$ Get what you actually ordered get the actual cut of meat that was advertised and get the full portion.
Then you go to chef A and ask him why can't he do what chef B did and he claims "BUT YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND! I HAVE TO DO IT TO NOT GO BANKRUPT WHAT CHEF B IS DOING IS UNSUSTAINABLE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT COOKING SO YOU CAN'T HAVE AN OPINION!!!
1:08:41 It is disturbing how well The Demon Avarice segment aged. Not even half a year passes and Microsoft shuts down Tango studios after making Hi-Fi Rush, a game that won NUMEROUS AWARDS and sold really well
yeah the wave of losers actually expecting me to entertain them in refuting what I said in this video when events keep proving me right was annoying at first but I think its a great opportunity for commentary
Wait star citizen has no bullshit monetization? They are selling everything especially ships for thousands of dollars, oh yea playing that game will be fun when you play it without investing a house worth of cash into it.
"If star citizen releases" yea if a lot of things happen that could be mean all kinds of things.
if tomorrow every game studio fired its executives and from then on focused on quality games over pure profit we would see hundreds of new high quality games, it's not smth i would bet my money on tho.
Secondly, what you dont understand about Nelson's argument is he was speaking to Developer Experience.
Again this is an "ingroup" comprehenional problem that "outgroup" people will consider a non-issue.
Games do not take money to make.
They do not take time to make.
They take experience to make.
You can fill a room with 500 fresh out of college, never-made-a-game-before's and pay them all a split sum of 100 million dollars over 7 years, and get a broken game because they burned the money getting paid to learn how to make a game, and not...making a game.
What Nelson said that you glossed over, when it was the SUM whole of the argument--
Is that Larian has made exactly one type of game, with a set of senior developers in the hundreds, over 2 decades of time.
They aren't just "experienced" they and unequivocally skilled.
Most game studios have a handful of skilled and a boatload of "intraining" level workers that can perform tasks but...at low efficiency. Most games studios are deeply inefficient, and if you listen to expert game devs talk about how work culture goes, the more people in a room, means the more mess and inhibition fills it with tension and slow progress.
That's the whole point.
Larian is a perfect storm, because they've been training to make this game for decades, not just any game, this exact game.
And it shows.
If you want to claim the argument is invalid, understand it first.
Essentially, you can't pay for quality, and no matter how much money you give a monkey he won't make you a rocket ship.
It's that simple. Experienced devs make good games, not the number of devs, nor the amount they are collectively paid.
"Anomaly"
I've worked for almost a decade in the AAA industry. It's rotten and spoiled exactly because of why y'all think: budget and time constraints. I won't name the studio or game, but one I worked on with a co-studio was infamous for 6 divorces; these divorces all cited the same reason: "my husband/wife is never home, I can't take this anymore"
that is such a common problem nobody will be able to guess the studio, 6 honestly seems low
Sure you have lol 😂
This video just felt very confusing to watch. I don’t see how there’s a strawman, so many people have used BG3 and Nelson’s video to insult and gaslight AAA devs. Just look at ANY comment section on a video about this subject. So many people just mindlessly calling AAA devs “lazy” or “jealous.” The sheer disrespect towards the humans making the art we consume because corporations want to rush out products for money is really sad to see.
Also, what context was missing? Those clips that you showed full context was didn’t really change them. The entire point of Noodle’s video is that AAA devs should not be the ones people constantly criticize for games releasing in substandard ways. You keep saying that the video was full of lies, but I just didn’t get that. It’s pretty clear that indie devs are not the subject, AAA ones are, and those are the ones that Noodle is defending.
And these bizarre psychoanalytic segments trying to say something bigger about Noodle as a person, or society as a whole didn’t really add anything to this video. After watching the whole thing, I just don’t understand your angle or point.
OOF the ending gave me CHILLS...
I'm usually not one to be consuming much of exposing videos and stuff, cause it demotivates me to continue living... takes away all my faith in humanity... but sometimes it's good for the soul to feel the suffering and analyze why... very good video...
Revealing the truth (exposing as you call) takes away what!!! You may need help.
@@standowner6979to be fair I get what they mean and it isn't an overreaction. One too many expose videos tends to make you feel like shit
it's was hard rekindling my faith in Humanity but I'd say i've long since started the flame again and can handily find more fuel thanks to finding good sources for it. But this kind of stuff is subjective and probably will only work for me on a personal level so I can't exactly share it as much as I try.
Incredible video. When all this stuff was first appearing my immediate reaction was: "if this truly is an impossible standard, then why the fuck aren't you guys blaming the publishers, instead of defending the status quo they've created?". The fact that people who brand themselves as "pro-creatives" are willing to defend this shit and deadass say "money talks" is crazy. I absolutely hate when they try to hide behind the idea that they know better because they're in the industry, because it genuinely makes me second guess myself that maybe I'm the ignorant one, but in reality their arguments are just corporate bootlick. There really is no excuse for the current state of the industry, and thank you for giving me confidence to say that now.
thank you man truly. Yeah these bozos want us fighting each other and second guessing our own judgement instead of calling into question theirs
Not to mention that these corpos spend LARGE amounts of money on things like psychologists to get the maximum effectiveness on monetizing their games, alongside things like focus groups. They know EXACTLY what they're doing because they *paid* to know.
@@whytho1690 It’s not manipulation if you say it’s marketing.
@@wildfire9280 😂
when all triple A games focus on is visual presentation, gamers are destined to be disappointed. gameplay hasnt evolved a bit since 3D gaming was introduced.
yes I will be touching on why in the video "Video Games are Still Fun, You're Just Depressed"
@@ArchWizardCjDang dude, no need to murder him.
@@ArchWizardCj depressed about AAA being garbage. Wasted oppurtunities is all
@@BrandonDenny-we1rw Agreed. Not all AAA companies have been failing (Fromsoft being a key example) but most of the studios lately have been messing up. Some more than others, I'm looking at you EA and Activision/Blizzard.
@@bitterorange7843 Are you talking to me or OP?
I think there's a lot of great points in here, but wanted to add one thing -- I think there is a bit of miscommunication happening between sides here. In my line of work when someone says "this is the standard" that does in fact mean "this is the bare minimum" or "this is what you're supposed to do everytime" and I do agree that BG3 is not something feasible to be done everytime. Not because it's stable, I agree games should be stable and polished on day 1, that absolutely should be the standard (with the industry definition of standard) and games like CoD should be mocked for not achieving that standard. Instead, I don't think BG3 should be the minimum thing done everytime because it's HUGE. Like seriously, huge. Getting that done in ONLY 6 years with ONLY 400 devs was a miracle. Those people definitely had to grind, in a seriously fucked up way I'd bet. That should not be the standard, that grind. Stability and polish is something that should be standard, and games should be allowed to be smaller to sustain that.
I prize such psychological interpretations/insights.
Thank you sir, from the bottom of my autistic heart for this titillating exposé.
There's almost nothing more meaningful to me than learning anew what strange leviathans may stir in the heart of my fellow human.
the wording of this comment checks out. Welcome my fellow autist
Yes, yes it does. I too, am an Autist. For example, I use _italics and _*_bolding_* WAY too much on anywhere they work, as it’s an easier way to express emotion imo, rather than leave things up to interpretation and then lead to an argument that could’ve been prevented. Also I have the habit using of using ALL CAPS as emphasis, which means I end up putting “(not yelling)” at the end of the All Caps text because _apparently_ me using uppercase for a *_single word_* means I’m yelling at you now.
@ArchWizardCj I'm not a commie though, I'll have you know. Still a sweet video.
@@Json_1040 Were you also born from a c-section?
@@wilddog73 yes, yes i was. I was supposed to be born sometime in November, but I decided to arrive on September 28th.
One hell of a dissection. Excellent video. It's sad to see it though as a fan of noodle. I hope they admit their faults.
"“It's difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it." - Upton Sinclair
He's literally incapable of admitting fault on this because it would interfere with his income. Why would he want to harm his income? Integrity? You think he has that? Shame? You think that weighs more than gold? Damage control? You think someone who deliberately cuts audio to change context is going to try being honest with their viewers?
Your hope has a lot of heavy lifting to do.
@@HiSodiumContentwow
we all know he wont
@@HiSodiumContent Brutal. I would have answered integrity, but you are right about audio splicing, that's inexcusable
@@HiSodiumContent Absolutely brutal, take my respect good sir.
Very good video. Especially as you got towards the end talking about how shareholders are the literal embodiment of greed and how all societal systems have become twisted for profit above all else, and will continue to contort this way until it collapses on itself.
It's a truth I think most people can feel but they may not know how far down the rabbit hole it goes. The worst part is that we are all trapped here together, bickering and arguing over (in the grand scheme) trivial matters because we cannot financially, mentally, or physically afford to worry about the bigger picture. The declining state of the planet and how the quality of life for most humans is very poor while the rich elite scoff up all the resources.
Getting back to the video specifically, I really appreciate the amount of time, effort, and mental fortitude it must have taken to listen to their bullshit over and over again. These types of videos must be very taxing to make but I hope you know it is worth it in the end. I wish you the best of luck in this corporate capitalist hell we live in.
45:40 i have a tendency to completely tune out when people start screaming, instead of a volume warning in the text that should probably be said in a voice over before hand since on mobile you cant really check all the section that easily or just don't do it in general, it does not really add anything to your point.
I'd give the benefit of the doubt and say this could be him getting overly emotional over the audio splice, possibly compounding both frustration for failing to line the audio up for an extended period of time, and newfound disgust for what this discovery confirms about Nood's manipulation and fabrication of context around the clips. But let's be honest, this is TH-cam, and any entertainer worth their salt knows that rage and loud noises increase viewer retention.
L take, best part of the video.
Hey, just saying, im not a defender of noodle or you here, dont really care whos right, but starting the video by stating that "nobody said this" to the thing that i myself unfortunetly did see people saying on twitter because unfortunetly i am a twitter user, is not really a good look. I doubt this matters to the overarching plot here and yeah i do know a lot of people simply make up people to be mad at but this wasnt one of them.
two people on twitter =/= large scale discourse. I should not have to explain this
@@ArchWizardCj why does it matter if the discourse is large scale or not?
@@pabloc4204 because the entire discussion is how our view of quality affects game developers, but they don't, and shouldn't, listen to two nobodies on twitter with brain dead takes, there's always someone with a crazy opinion on how the industry should behave, but we dont respond to their arguments with a 20 minute video because it's pointless, one bad actor is not the cause of the problem being discussed in Noodle's video, their argument is that gamers as a whole are pushing Baldur's Gate as a new standard to all developers, when it's only like, 3 weirdos with 4 followers, also, picking the worst possible argument presented from the other side and ignoring all other reasonable and better explained takes is bad
@@pabloc4204If the scale of the talking point never mattered, you can make any general statement about people, no matter how wrong, racist, sexist or whatever-ist/-phobic and be correct because 1 or 2 people have said a thing (out of 8 billion people in the world). That doesn't make any sense. Also, people tend to exploit that to receive funding from their viewers, all of which literally has stemmed from gross misrepresentation.
@@pabloc4204 there is no fucking way you asked that unironically lol
seeing noodle stitch audio and video together to fabricate new, fake evidence really gives me a punch in the gut considering i love his content
Same, When I saw it, I was stunned
Thank you for getting me to finally understand what a "Strawman" is. I thought it would be something related to how a scarecrow needs crows to scare off or something like that, but your explanation made perfect sense to me.
Also, how is this literally the only video exposing this? If this was literally anyone else being exposed, every commentator would be on this shit. You even showed how a clip with Moist Critical and Huggbees in it being manipulated! How are they themselves not on this?
idk honestly. Small channel with no relevance. Gotta keep getting pushed out I guess
Cause youtube commentators are less about exposing facts and more about joining in on petty drama when they can get views from it, while puttingin as little effort as possible. It's about the lowest form of content there is. They're parasites. Obviously I don't mean the guy who made this video is, he actually did some proper journalism here.
unrelated but fantastic pfp you’ve got there
@@connor48880 Thanks lol
So you complain about Noodle editing quotes and taking them out of context...but then do that exact same thing yourself? (also i wonder how long it'll take for this comment to get deleted)
substantiate these claims?
@@ArchWizardCjAt the beginning of this video, you showed a clip from Noodle where he (jokingly) mentioned the narrative that Baldur's Gate 3 was raising the standards for AAA games too high. The way you frame the clip in this video makes it seem like Noodle thinks that many developers genuinely believe this narrative. However, at 42:21, you show another clip from Noodle where he himself says "nobody fucking said that" about developers believing the narrative, also stating that there was a fundamental misunderstanding among people who actually believed BG3 was setting some impossible standard. The last thing I want to do is start a pointless argument over this, but it does seem a bit weird that you're criticizing him for presenting clips out of context to make it seem as if they're saying something else, when you essentially did that exact same thing at the start of this video.
Fantastic video! I won't lie, I was partially convinced by noodle. didnt think hed be so brazenly dishonest. Never was in love with his content although thats due to his delivery and personality. This is a real eye opener.
"Nobody said this"
Bro, what the hell are you talking about.
That was all anyone was saying for like two weeks. I can find you endless videos of people saying this. Are you trying to gaslight us??
Whatever, I'm not tryna get through the rest of this.
lol your negative comment is counter intuitively making the video more popular by adding engagement
Actually no, no one was saying this, it’s a strawman misconstruing what people actually said. Not my fault people like you and noodle invent arguments to justify your biases.
Day one watching his video when it came out I thought, "None of this makes any sense and you're purposely missing the point that everyone is trying to say. You're also saying shit no one is saying. You're either missing the point entirely or you're doing this in bad faith." After watching this video it's cleared it was in bad faith and am glad you made this video because it pissed me off so much how much of a logical failure it was. Thank you for expressing it in a way that is valid and not me running on my emotions.
What “everyone was trying to say” was that AAA devs were lazy and jealous of Larian. Which is incredibly stupid.
@@gavo7911 Yeah, you're right they were not jealous of Larian. They just mindlessly defended a system that is dogshit because they've been brainwashed into thinking that "that's just how things work." Still stupid.
Also there HAVE been developers who were jealous of other AAA companies before (remember that clown from Ubisoft that cried about how much people hated the UI in Ubi games, but liked ER's UI lmao) So since that only happened a year ago, I'm assuming most people are conflating both instances to be the same, because that's just how people are on twitter
@@agentep9979 Specifically, how were they defending the system?
the malicious editing section is fucking hilarious. i laughed out loud from that. good video dude
just wanted to say @3:55 "He completely made that up" - when i google "BG3 raising standards for AAA Games" theres pages of people talking about that and articles on the matter. so i guess he didnt make it up? ill watch the video now maybe i missed something
I remember feeling really uncomfortable watching his video, especially on the first half, but never managed to point out why. Thanks for pointing out what I missed.
It’s crazy how many people got a gross feeling from his video
What makes me so mad is that most of his fanbase will never see this.
we can just keep sharing it lol just saying
@@ArchWizardCjtrust me, already am. lol
Shared bro, more people need to realize corporate game studios will never be looking out for what's best for gamers
@@hypermonkey600 if it has investors then the product coming out of it are an investment vehicle. The main issue is that you cannot invest in art, the risk in art is extremely high, and the time to maturity is also very uncertain. (Edit, well fuck, I predicted the end of the video halfway through)
Just look at how Hollywood immediately grinds out formulaic copy cats of break out movies, like the Superhero genre, which is a thin veneer over generic action movie 500. People will watch it, and give you money, but they've phoned in on what matters for a quick buck, thinking that the more man-hours or dollars you throw at it makes is more gooder. Much ado with how Triple A Game Studios think that Crunch Time and Graphics is how you make games, when we'd be fine with Half Life Death Match, complete with mic spam, and honestly questionable custom models.
Both got blown out by "2 Clicks from Bear Sex", and "A Dad trying to get through post-war economic turmoil (featuring Gozilla, remember, it's yet another Godzilla reboot)".
Nah I found this so there’s a possibility the others will, although it’s been a while since I saw his videos bc I also watch all the other you tubers he took thumbnails from and saw how he was cherry picking everything
I’m not disagreeing with you, I just find it strange you censored the swears but not the n word. Not relating this to your argument nor trying to insult you, just… confused.
you know when sometimes you write a comment and you realise haf way in that you don't actually care and what you have just written is bullshit and deleted it? well he didn't do that
In the begining of this video i was like ”bro really? You think hes lying with malicious intent? Grow up.” But now, after the chapter called ”Malicious editing” i was speechless. S-tier video bro, keep it up.
A hilarious tweet actually : x.com/ArchWizardCj/status/1739468745431818283?s=20
Yeah I'm back I got like 4 videos already finishing lol
Not much to say homeless atm but still makin vids. Life didn't change much considering I was already just taking care of my sick grandparents and grinding videos so i'm just in the same mode different setting. Hope y'all are good, also free Palestine
You was and still are cooking, and it's peak.
CJ, I doubt you’ll see this, but you mention within the video that the future will hold “Massive social upheaval,” and that you’ll be producing a 40 minute video (that I assume will be expanding on this idea.)
Many people throughout history have said that “massive social upheaval” will occur within their time, and most are incorrect. The 90’s, the 40’s and the 20’s are the only times that I can think of that really have had “social upheaval” in recent history.
What makes you believe that something so dramatic will occur now?
bro I dont have shit to do im literally just refreshing comments rn lmao @@sgticecoldwater
and have any of those societies ever had the internet, the very reason we're having this conversation right now lol@@sgticecoldwater
oh you just wait man, things are changing at the very moment and you can see it @@sgticecoldwater
I probably wouldn't use Star Citizen as a positive example of a developer acting in the interests of players or the game.
God man, this was like I had sole dirt in my eyes, and you gave me those eye drops. And I am only 14 minutes in.
I didn't care much nor watched much Noodles, so seeing this video made me think about how this guy's ideas are wrong in comparison to the actual game dev world. Holy mackerel. Cherry picking, audio stitching, the subtle clips of him staring after those lies are made, and his motivations. All of that while you provide more factual reasoning about why major game studios are churning out poor quality.
Props to you man. That's a sub from me.
much love man, thank you
Aside from it being a hilarious segment, the LegacyKilla situation is really fucking insane. Bro wants to be right so bad that he has to intentionally present his own version of the truth. You could maybe say him taking everything else out of context was from skimming through a bunch of different sources and getting careless or some bullshit, but stitching the audio like that has got to be the most inexcusable shit ever.
Ok but what does the context add to the conversation that tears noodle’s apart?
@@mrj1897 NO it doesn’t! The dude changed the CONTEXT YOU DUMBIE did you not listen to noodle? He tries to act like our argument is about the size of the GAME. It’s not about that, the argument is to talk about how a smaller game with a smaller team and a smaller budget and did the impossible by getting game of the year and to NOT use cooperate greed to make money. Did you not watch the video in its entirety or are you here to just defend noodle cause of his high quality videos?
Why are you so ignorant in these comments? He literally changed his context and didn’t even respond to his ORIGINAL POINT! THATS WHY HE CHANGED THE CONTEXT SO HE DIDNT HAVE TO REPLY TO THE ORIGINAL CONTEXT! HOLY FUCK. Please open your eyes and ears next time you watch a video.
@@mrj1897 These people that noodle are clipping are qualifying their statements to only criticize triple A studios. Noodle is so sleazy that he will make a edited clip to misrepresent their arguments.
@@Csnow709 that would be true had he ever specified that he’s defending double AA or indie studios. Which he has not, he uses examples like mimimi studios, but he also shows clips of the most anticipated games that were being releasing years back like cyberpunk and battlefield 2042. and even now. He’s very clearly implied he’s concerned for ALL studios.
So again, what does it change?
@@mrj1897 43:00 through 43:13 Legacy killa literally qualifies his statement. He is excluding indie devs and double A studios. The whole conversation is specifically about the standard of TRIPLE A studios. Mimimi Games has zero relevance to the convo because it’s a smaller team. Noodle just brings them up for no reason.
Noodle literally changed legacy’s statement to make it look like he’s talking to every studio. Noodle had to splice it up so Legacy can look like an angry consoomer.
If you don’t find anything wrong with that all I have to say is don’t do anything in media or writing.
Pretty funny how he explains what a straw man is, then the very next scene is a minute-long skit of him talking as real people in the debate to "nutshell" their arguments.
That's not straw manning . It is when you specifically interpret someone's argument in s way to make it easier to attack
This dude's voice is so annoying.
It's not really a strawman if there is actual evidence about what these people did and choosing to make a skit summarizing what they did.
He was parodying him, not saying that was his actual argument and arguing against THAT. He spends like the next 15 minutes going over his ACTUAL POSTS and debunks those.
40:30 - No. The reason they want to avoid over-delivering... is because most profits aren't based around the game sales.... It's based around post launch content, and content meant to be recurring revenue.
This is safer for publishers.
So, whenever they "over deliver" a game, they see that "extra value given" as "unnecessary cost."
The cost for a game is largely NOT linear as the game gets more polish and features -- and after a certain point, it becomes a LOT more expensive to fix bugs / add extra polish and features.
So they ONLY want to deliver features that will gives the most ROI profit per $X spent on that feature, when that money could get a higher ROI in another venture.
It's all about comparing ROI for certain dollars, and maximizing that across a wide portfolio.....
This is EXACTLY why profitable profits get cancelled, when another project with (even if ever so slightly) higher ROI is available.
the money conduit bit had me cackling. This is such a good video. Not just from how thorough you were, but with your humor throughout.
I mostly agree with everything you have to say here, but I disagree with your interpretation of Noodle's editing of that LegacyKilla clip.
To me it just seems like VERY misguided editing. The original clip contains a vocal flub "... I just don't think that's at all --- I just think that's kinda an excuse..."
I think Noodle was just trying to edit out that flub for better verbal flow.
Of course, in the process, he eviscerated the nuance of what LegacyKilla was saying, so you are right to criticize him for making that edit. Noodle should have just allowed the vocal mistake to live on. But to claim that he did this intentionally to mislead? I don't buy it.
And then, yes, of course, Noodle let the video de-sync to avoid a jarring jump-cut, since the visual contents were completely irrelevant anyways.
It's very poor editing to be sure, and demonstrates Noodle didn't really understand the argument LegacyKilla was trying to make, but I really do not agree that Noodle was necessarily trying to hide anything or misdirect in this instance. It just seems like a mistake to me -- admittedly, a very conveniently misleading one.
Honestly, you seem like someone who values nuance in discussion (hence why I bother to write this at all). At certain times, you make excellent points about where others have missed nuance.
But then, in the same breath, you yourself seem very quick to form very strong opinions about Noodle's character based on, IMO, spotty evidence.
It really knocks this otherwise very well done video down a peg for me. I think you can absolutely do better. And I am subscribing, because I believe that you will.
I'd like to respond to points made in this video while I go through it.
1) It's a fine point that Noodle employs some strawman arguments. Nelson tried to get ahead of this by specifically saying he wanted to preemptively respond to possible reactions, but it's true that it's a much weaker argument than if he'd responded to someone directly.
2) I find it funny that in tackling the manipulative nature of Noodle's video, you literally put words in the mouths of Nelson and Destin, adding their pictures to words you wrote to give the illusion that they spoke them.
3) In his video, Noodle does in fact emphasize that scale≠quality, so it seems to me that he's in full agreement with people who want better, but not necessarily bigger, games. His main point, strawman arguments or not, is that AAA development with a focus on an ever increasing scale is unsustainable for the industry.
4) I have not found an accurate source for the $100 million budget named for BG3. By estimating based on EU labor costs, it's likely higher, though probably not exceptionally high compared to other AAA games. However, Larian is a private company, making comparison to other developers difficult at the least. Simply comparing budgets is certainly not sufficient. I also think that Larian's early access development is a significant contributing factor to the game's quality, something that should be factored in when comparing it to games with similarly long development times and similar budgets. You address this by using Star Citizen as an example, which I find peculiar. SC to me is the prime example of overpromising on scale. It has bloated beyond belief, is hugely expensive to play and still has no sign of actually releasing. How can we compare this game to BG3? Also, the game already has shitty monetization schemes, that's basically the whole concept. Everything you say about if this game releases is pure conjecture.
5) Judging the quality of Cyberpunk 2077 only on it's bugs at release is unfair. And when comparing the game to BG3 you have to do your due diligence and discuss how broken many parts of that game were at release as well.
6) Please break down budgets that include advertisement budgets, otherwise that number is largely meaningless.
7) I agree that the importance of the IP to the success of BG3 is overstated. However, claiming that it is a lie that it's a contributing factor is irresponsible.
8) Throughout the video you emphasize that other games backed by huge publisher seem incapable of pulling off the same as BG3. I wonder if you have examined how these large publishers might negatively impact a game's development?
9) Claiming that the consumer's influence decisions made during development does not at all imply that their input is used to build games. That's a leap in logic you cannot make and you can in fact separate the two. This is a point that Noodle makes as well: gamers do and have voted with their wallets. Predatory monetization, pre-order bonuses and broken games on release are the standard because it keeps working. To a publisher it's obvious that gamers ask for a battle pass, since gamers keep buying them. That is the consumer's influence. Consumer input would be something like responses during early access.
10) I feel like there's a misunderstanding or mischaracterization when engaging with Noodle's point about developers being on the side of the consumer. When engaging with his point in good faith, he's not talking about publishers or executives like Bobby Kotick, but the artists that want to create good games. Seeing as you're someone who appreciates art and games so much, I'd appreciate more clarity in your distinction between the two. When most people in the industry talk about developers, they're talking about individuals, not studios, and certainty not the executives in suits pushing for more microtransactions. It's disingenuous to paint them with the same brush.
11) Luminous Productions was shut down after Forspoken failed to meet sales expectations. Daedalic Entertainment, a small studio, was shut down after poor reception and sales of Gollum, a relatively large scale game for the studio and in a genre that they had little experience with (they mainly made point-and-click games). Staff also cited poor working conditions. The point is not that these are 'megagames', the point is that pushing a studio to create a game that is too large in scope (which is very much a relative thing based on the studio in question) is risky, and when the game performs poorly, the studio is often shut down. "Who asked these people to develop an underwhelming and unpolished game?" The publisher or parent company, obviously. Daedalic was asked to make a Gollum game, Volition was pushed to release the game before it was fully polished. Doesn't seem like a huge mystery why those things happen. But you seem to realize this, as you point to publishers closing down and assimilating studios in order to maximize profits as the real cause. How is that different from what Noodle claims (studios are often shut down after making a game that proved too ambitious and didn't perform as well as expected)? It seems that the difference between 'shut down' and 'closed down by publisher' is purely semantics.
12) I feel like saying that the arguments about Mimimi Games don't apply because the conversation is only about AAA development is moving the goalpost. In his video, Noodle is clearly talking about the industry as a whole, but even disregarding what he says about it: why wouldn't shifting standards for AAA games impact indie games? If audiences come to expect increased scale and development and marketing budgets continue to increase, why would indie studios remain unaffected? Mimimi Games says so themselves: starting increasingly ambitious projects and multi-year long production cycles is unsustainable. How does this contradict Noodle's point?
13) In a video that begins by pointing out a fallacy (the straw man argument), it's funny to then dedicate an entire section to attacking a man's character, rather than his argument. This is ad hominem argument, which is an intentional fallacy.
14) Many of the people quoted in the 'Noodle's entire video is fake' section employ fallacies in their own right. For example, the claim that developers collectively decided to not overdeliver so that they can purposely make broken games makes no sense and I think it's perfectly valid for Noodle to highlight that argument in a discussion about standards for the gaming industry.
15) It's kinda crazy to keep saying "No one is actually talking about this" immediately after showing a clip from a video of someone talking about that.
16) Nelson (and Noodle by extension) clearly agrees with you that we as consumers can and should expect games to release in a playable, not buggy state. The fact that games still release in that state does not contradict what he's saying at all, in fact it supports his whole thesis.
17) Okay, I fully admit that I'm not engaging with this in good faith (but then neither are you), but using that six year old Cuphead clip to shit on journalists is hilarious. Could you not find a more recent example to discount the argument of "I shouldn't expect influencers to do the same amount of research I can expect from an industry professional"?
18) Noodle emphasises that no developers actually said that they were worried about the standards BG3 would set, but that this false argument still fueled the conversations for a long time (something clearly demonstrated in the clips you show). The words "we know lol" are shown on screen. So you agree with him? Why not just say that?
19) I agree that cutting out part of LegacyKilla's point is not fair, but I don't see how it changes his core argument. The section that was cut out is him elaborating on what he means by 'to some degree'. His main point (AAA studios use the threat of being shut down as an excuse to deliver bad games) remains the same. And even if you claim that only AA and indie studios risk being shut down, you cannot deny that even AAA studios take heavy hits in the form of huge layoffs.
20) "We're not asking indie devs to be like this." Yes you are, which is the point Noodle is making. Whether you're consciously asking this or not, when you demand certain standards from AAA devs, it's rash to assume that this will not affect indie developers as well.
20.5) "The more you scale up [video game budgets and production cycles], the harder it becomes to achieve [meaningful games not made by committee]."
"The comparison that comes to mind is 'Don't tax businesses, you're going to kill small businesses'." How are these things comparable? How is this Noodle "sucking corporate cock"? He's literally saying that big corporations are bad for the quality of games and the health of the industry and developers. He says that because of this, all devs (indie or otherwise, because of course all studios are affected by industry wide developments) are stuck competing against imaginary ideas of a perfect game, to which you reply that he knows no one said that, even though you quote Mimimi Games earlier in the video saying exactly that.
21) You keep saying that Noodle lies, but it's unclear to me how exactly. Deceptive editing, sure, but you provide little evidence that what he says or claims is intentionally false. Also, please don't pretend that you don't use editing to (deceptively) enforce your own points and weaken Noodle's (as seen from 5:25 onward, or right after you attack Noodle for his deceptive editing at 49:25). You claim that Noodle is gaslighting you (I understand that you were a fan, but I hope you realise he's not speaking specifically to you. He also doesn't own you professionalism, since this is not a professional context), but how exactly? By saying that you shouldn't jump to conclusions? By giving backhanded compliments? Gaslighting is a serious form of psychological abuse where a person is made to question there sanity over a prolonged period of time. You can't just throw terms like that around. Also, 'gaslighting someone with ad hominems' isn't a thing.
You then insult him by claiming that he's insecure, which is "obvious" by the fact that he's insulting people who disagree with him. Like you are doing. Again, this is an ad hominem. If you're so careful about how you choose your words, this doesn't speak highly of you.
22) The "mindlessly regurgitate" comment from Noodle is obviously a joke and it's weird to engage with it as if it's a serious statement. Everything that follows about his beliefs is just extremely weird conjecture and framing to paint Noodle in a bad light on your part. What are you even doing.
23) Everything about Noodle's character, beliefs or direction of and motivations behind his videos are irrelevant to the points he makes in his video and which you claim to argue against. Additionally, how are ads or plugs for a patreon weird for a youtuber? Pretty much most of the platform does these things, how is that suspicious. Are you going to donate all the revenue from this and your other videos to charity? And how is it relevant? Man makes a living, therefore we can disregard everything he says? Also, selling a product is not "asking for money" and if you think the price is too high, just don't buy the product.
24) "Not trying to be disrespectful." That's not true, you literally said that Noodle doesn't deserve your respect.
25) "If it looks like a duck." What are you insinuating here? Noodle creates content for money? Great insight there, Sherlock.
26) It's so funny to claim that Hbomberguy and you are "doing the same thing" lol. Using a paid sponsorship as evidence of some wrongdoing is insane.
27) 1:06:03 This is not ambiguous at all, Nelson is quite clear in what he's saying. And yes, he obviously means financial risk. He's saying that putting more money into a project doens't necessitate that the result will be more better, but does mean that the project will be riskier (because more money invested means that you need a larger return on investment). In addition, his point about the contamination of a genre isn't about consumers no longer wanting to play that genre, it's about investors seeing it as a bad investment. He couldn't be more clear about that.
28) You're not uncovering some deep conspiracy by saying that publishers, large companies and shareholders want to see a return on their investment and want to make more and more money. That is literally what Noodle and Nelson are saying is the root of the problem. It's capitalism, you're not coming to any new insights here. And no, Nelson is obviously not defending these practices, where are you even getting that. He's obviously framing this (the fact that games are made or not on the whims of investors) as a bad thing.
29) "The reason that these publishers are allergic to making good games, is because when profit becomes the goal, work becomes an obstacle." I don't fully agree with this statement. Publishers aren't allergic to making good games, they just don't really care about the quality. I agree that profit is the goal. If publishers could make the most profit by making the best game, they would. But they make the most profit by cutting corners and using predatory business tactics such as lootboxes.
30) 1:10:27-1:10:51 You are in complete agreement with Nelson here. However, where I disagree is in the claim that gamers/consumers don't hold any influence in the pressure developers feel to implement things like microtransactions.
31) As consumers, we are a vital part of the industry, and by 'voting with our wallets', i.e. pre-ordering unfinished games and buying lootboxes, we reward the industry for tactics that harm it. Publishers see people buy a battle pass, see it as a surefire way to recoup their investment, and then pressure a developer to implement it into their next game. And it keeps working, so they are constantly rewarded for these practices. And reddit downvotes, low twitch views and poor steam reviews are obviously unimportant to investors compared to huge amounts of profit. A shareholder does not care if Diablo 4 viewership is down, because the game made more than $400 million in profit in the first 5 days after launch.
Are gamers having this influence on the industry on purpose? No, but that's not really the point. The point is awareness, that we know why these things are happening, so that the criticism we have is aimed at the right parties and so that we can do something about it. And Nelson and Noodle are trying to spread that awareness. You're attacking the wrong people, they are obviously on your side, they're not defending the AAA industry and they are not lying to you. They're not making it hard, they're making it easier by explaining why videogames aren't how you remember them from when you were younger. They're not tricking you, they want what you want. You want people to point out issues with the industry, so why would you attack Noodle and Nelson for doing exactly that. And if you're mad that they're talking to consumers: consumers are part of the industry.
I think the main thing it comes down to, is that most people (that includes Noodle and Nelson) agree that in short, the main issue is money and capitalism. Games with huge budgets and half a decade long production cycles are an issue because they are so risky and the moment a game underdelivers a studio risks being shut down. Publishers that want to see a return on investment push for predatory business tactics, such as pre-order bonusses, tight deadlines and day one patches, and microtransactions. Yet the claim that gamers as a whole are done with money being prioritized over (what they percieve as) quality is clearly not true, as these tactics keep working. That's not to lay the blame on the consumer, they are a victim of these practices, but the average consumer of video games is not some sharp critic who knows what's best for the industry. The whole point is that if the industry keeps trending towards bigger games, that promise more content, that have bigger budgets and longer production cycles, the industry will collapse. And by claiming that everyone should just do what [insert succesful big budget video game here], without examining how this feat was achieved, we encourage an industry that just chases bigger things, bigger risks, and harsher consequences for failures. So I would in fact claim that large games such as Diablo 4, regardless of their low review scores, set an unhealthy and unrealistic standard for the industry. With the recent string of firings in the gaming industry, it seems that things are already collapsing. We should all strive to encourage smaller games, sustainably made by people who don't have to overwork themselves.
I agree fully with your final point. The problem is capitalism, which is completely antithetical to art as a whole. The problems affecting the games industry are affecting most if not all industries. Capitalism is inherently unsustainable. However, this is the same point that Noodle and Nelson are making, and I find that your video engages with them bad faith. You engage more with how Noodle is saying things and attack him for his tone, rather than engaging with what he's actually saying. It's my opinion that you don't provide very substantial arguments to support your position regarding what he's saying (I'm still not entirely sure what that is other than the fact that he is wrong) and spend most of the video dissecting Noodle's editing and jokes. To me, your video added little, and I feel like you're doing what you're excusing others of: selling a narrative. I think you're on the exact same side as Noodle and Nelson, but it's unclear to me why you cannot see that. It results in a video that is mean spirited and insulting while not engaging with the subject matter enough.
Also, to pre-empt anyone making fun of the length of my comment (wow, is this a straw man?): the video I'm responding to is almost an hour longer than the video it is responding to, and that is completely fine.
Such a great write-up about so many issues I had with this video. It really feels like drama bait, and arguing with a side that literally agrees with the points trying to be made in this video. @@JaspervN
Genuinely a great analysis of this video, hope more ppl see this
After having sat through this whole video only to see a flood of people repeat "what an insanely good video wow" i felt like most commenters and I had watched two entirely separate videos.
Every single thing mentioned in this thread (if you can call it that) pretty much takes the words out of my mouth in terms of what I was thinking about it.
It feels like a lot of those posting these comments that boil down to "This video was so good and informative" with next to no elaboration either just took the video at face value or mustve skimmed through a lot of it, because what I saw were a lot of very loose arguments, contradictions and a constant attempt to disagree only to then say the exact same thing, but worded slightly differently. And the use of slurs throughout doesn't particularly help either when someone tries to make an expose of sorts.
It honestly shocks me just a bit how many people I have seen in this comment section that watched this exact video and, if not the entire video, at least deemed 90% of it good and trustworthy for exposing someone, despite this creator essentially twisting almost every arguement to look and sound as badly as possible, even if the arguement in question is something they agree with.
And then they repeat those same arguements as though this is an entirely new piece of information we should all learn from and what noodle said was entirely against that.
I sincerely hope that this video doesnt end up blowing up in the way that ign reporter's video blew up, not because the video made me upset but because it would once again entirely muddy the whole conversation that was attempted to be had in the first place. Just like with Nelson's original twitter thread. This was literally a big point of noodles video, yet even after dissecting the whole thing it does not feel like this person has learned much of anything here, which sucks because what is being argued is quite literally what most people SHOULD be on the same page with.
Great video man. I was a Noodle fan, but honestly the breakdown of his 'argument' and slimy video editing tactics was eye-opening (not to mention the irony of his back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back panhandling videos). Thank you for reminding us to keep popular creators honest, and to use some damn critical thinking and research to form opinions.