Pretty cool. I saw your last one too. I built a bunch standard 30 and 33 frame horizontal hives. Can't wait to see how it performs. Keep us updated. Great idea man.
I just started bee keeping last year. I build my own hives also. I started with 2 long langstroth that I hate. Then I saw Bee boy Bill's layens design and frame's, and made 2 of those and frame's. I love them so much I made 3 more and the frame's, and I haven't looked back. The 2 I started with are filled and each frame probably weighs 20 pounds. They are 19 frame construction and like I said this is my first summer. If I were you I would look into it, and they are off of the plans of Dr. Leo Sharashkin. I did see your first video when you built your double deeps but it doesn't give the Queen enough room to make a circle brood pattern like the layens. So I wire all of my frames and eliminated the middle bar so they have the 12 × 15 inches of space, and they use every bit of it. Good luck and keep the bee's happy.🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
I too have abandoned the standard vertical Lang style in favor of a Layen style but use a single modified Lang deep frame on end. My hive body is more narrow as a result and over all more manageable. the bottom can have a deep slide out drawer for winter die- off or modified double layer bottom for hive beetle traps and a bottom entry/exit. The modified lang's work as you have stated for narrower extraction units. Queen excluder's have to be placed at about 1/2 way into the box to manage honey but can be quite flexible and of course follower boards too. I prefer full width frame tops instead of cover boards and once all my current Lang supply's are used will stick with my design. Traps and hives use the same sized frame but I am going to a full 20-24 frames (36" +/- L x 10" W x 18.375" D) frame box this year. A 7-8 frame brood chamber (via exclusion) is all that is needed for the nectar flows in my area. I try to avoid any form of unbalanced feed meaning sugar in any form other than actual combed honey the bees have made. Honey robbing is a problem in my area as there is an apiary yard about a mile and a half from me and they do not apparently open feed.
I really enjoyed this video you did amazing with the designing of your hive. I’m looking at adding a flow hive to the top of mine but don’t have the mindset to put it together
I overwintered a hive this year in the insulated Layens hive I built from Dr Leo Sharaskins plans. I'm in MA also. I don't have an easy way to clean out the bottom. I have seen some hives with a large hole drilled in the bottom and installing a flanged pvc fitting with a cap screwed on one end.
The bottom of this hive will fall out with the removal of 4 screws. However it would be super simple to make it hinge, I just got lazy at the end and decided the screws were good enough for me haha :)
I can't see how your hive is much different from the Lazutin Hive which used double deep frames. The Lazutin hive is an excellent hive. The main problem I see with it is that the hives are huge (cumbersome for transport) and the ceiling has a a very large surface area (heat dissipation) especially challenging for new colony. Happy to see you are using a high amount of insulation, especially for top. Good luck from Nelson NZ bro. Surprised you visited.
Thanks for the comment Japesh! You are right, it is very similar to the Lazutin/Sharashkin Hive. The major difference is I am using more insulation in the roof, and this hive is designed to hold my Double Deep frames.
Meant to say horizontal lang style not "vertical lang style. Tree cavities are seldom as big as a layen or even a lang but bees are flexible to a degree. Many tree cavities will have 2 inches of bark and wood combined so the bee is essentially insulated and thermally reinforced in direct sunshine. Things simple man made hives cannot replicate.. In the summer the same cavity will be "air-conditioned" to a degree from ground water flowing up through the inner-bark to feed the bark, branches and leaves. Your attempt at winter and summer insulation is spot on. How ever I think ideally lengthy rather than blocky is best for the bees in the wild. Not deviating too far from that works well with the bees flexibility. So I am converting to strictly vertical lang lengths and layens closed style tops. Additionally hives in trees will often have a hole that allows dead bees to fall out of the hive in winter die off or cupped bottoms that will allow a build up of bee bodies until spring cleaning can happen. I saw a clip by a Germany based school that actually added to the bottom of a hive to facilitate die off of late summer/fall bees. (about 3"-4"). People with langs in colder regions might want to consider this practice
nice job. i have been building horizontal hives for a long time. i always try to continue to improve on the design with the bee's being number 1 and the person working the bee's in 2nd. i have watched a lot of videos of others designs. the drastic increase in the cost of wood materials is not making things easy on us. but i only use #1 grade material . with proper care your hives can last much longer. again, great work , and have fun while your working in the shop.
I look forward to your build video. Can you please show your measurements in that video. Especially the internal measurements. Width, length, depth. And I have just a thought. Consider using the hyfegate to assist with pass through of the thicker walls.
Thanks for the comment! I'll be posting a build video soon! I won't go too much into the dimensions (since I have plans for sale with all of the dimensions) and rather talking more about the process, tools, and techniques. I've never used a hyfegate, but I will certainly look into them. Thanks for the tip!
Interesting to see someone using "double deep" frames. I'd like to see a hive inspection. I wonder if the bees will glue those separable double deep frames with propolis. Let's see if you can get them apart in a couple of years. It can't be too fiddly.
I actually talk about this in a couple of my other videos, especially my recent honey harvest video. While the bees do propolize the frames together, if the propolis is warm (as it is on a warm day), the frames will still easily pull apart. I've found if they are still sticking, running a knife along the seam is enough to break the "glue" joint! Of course all of this is dependent on making the dovetails the right tightness in the first place :) Thanks for the comment!
Wow, you've really thought out all the aspects of concern very well!! Other than selling the plans for building do you plan to sell completed hives or the hive components for assembly, etc.? Thank you.
You are doing a great job sharing your thought process and reasoning behind your design. I'm very interested to follow along. I've had the idea to do a double deep horizontal langstroth before, but couldn't think of a way to stack the deep frames. Your dovetail approach is simple and very ingenious. What wood type are you using to build your frames? Is it regular pine?
Thank you! Yes I'm using regular pine framing materials for the frames. I've found 2x4's and rough sawn 1x12's to be the most economical and least wasteful.
I'm currently exploring the feasibility of selling unassembled frames. However I will definitely have the plans available for purchase in the next few weeks
Great follow-up video! I'm happy to see that I (and many others) aren't the only ones wondering about improving the homes we put our colonies in. Only you have the curiosity and intelligence to do it! A few things to consider and to get your genius working even more: when the winter bees die and fall to the bottom of the (currently-used) hive, they can block the entrance, in the wild, there is a 2 inch space (or so) below the entrance (so it doesn't get blocked); consider how a slatted rack is used in Langstroth hives to help that and over heating in summer. In regards to insulation: take a look at the Finnish design (Bee Box). It's compressed poly - maybe use something similar to insulate the hive walls. Frames: The middle slate (joint) between both halves looks a little too thick (the brood and resources are divided). Is there a way to make that joint thinner while keeping your fantastic (REALLY!) design to join them? You've got a new groupie! (Though I won't be showing up at your door... LOL!)
I love what you are doing. Being on the older side of life, I would be interested in the basic design (insulation walls, etc) for a single deep Langstroth frame as opposed to the double deep you show here. Have you thought about creating design plans for a single deep version?
Hi Joel thanks for the kind words! I have not made any plans for a single deep version and probably won't. I think plenty of plans exist for a "long Lang" and then it would be fairly simple to wrap it with insulation. I also just moved and started a new job, so I've got a lot else on my plate at the moment haha! Happy beekeeping!
vewhat about converting the az slovenian hive into your desisng for like another version? I want to get into bee keeping but for me older women the weight of things would deture me and Im sure older people who are already in the industry. Do you think about these type frames?
Hi! Thanks for the comment. I love horizontalhive.com, but I haven't seen any universal honey extractors. All I can find on there are Layens extractors, and for way out of my price range haha. I'd much rather pay $150 for a cheap manual Langstroth extractor than $700 for a manual Layens extractor :)
Hi Joao! Thanks for the question. I don’t currently have plans in the metric system, but it wouldn’t be too hard for me to make a set with the dimensions converted. Let me know if you’re interested and I’ll make up a set.
@@stroutsabout Looking forward to it, Mr David! You just missed ALL the beekeepers that use the Metric System; and the Imperial System (specially for me being an European) it´s quite hard to understand it; because sometimes, it´s not a "straight forward conversion" matter.
David, thank you, really enjoyed this video and learned a lot. I love to visit neighborhood bee hives, although I don’t keep bees myself. I’m thinking about your tree trunk reference. Do bees benefit from outside noise being dampened by the thick bark? Does external sound or vibration disturb them and if so does insulation help with that as well as temperature stability? Just curious! I am subscribed and can’t wait to learn more :)
Hi Marie! Thanks for the comment. It's an interesting question you raise about sound exposure and I don't have a good answer for you. After doing a quick search, it seems like the effect of sound levels on bees has not been researched very well. Maybe something to experiment with in the future :)
Nice to see the follow-up, David! I can't wait to see the results. Have you thought about using Alpaca or sheep's wool as insulation? There are Alpaca orgs on Facebook. That is a great place to source materials, if you are interested. It doesn't have to be cleaned or processed before use as insulation. Though, I am unsure about the absorption of condensation properties. It is full of natural lanolin. It wouldn't hurt the wool, just not sure if it would absorb well enough. I am thinking an Alpaca's skin never (or rarely) gets wet... with the wool and the lanolin. I would also think that the wet air would absorb (into the wool) and dry quickly, but I am not sure. will you use a barrier between the hive and the roof insulation?
Thanks Linda! That's a great idea about using wool as a natural insulator. I think it would work especially well in the roof as it would absorb moisture as well. I do worry about it losing it's insulation value if it gets wet, but maybe that's something to experiment with. Do you have an Alpaca group in mind that I could look into? For the insulation in the roof, I do plan on having a thin plywood layer between the roof insulation and the colony, although the tops of the frames will actually touch each other and serve as the hive's roof. Thanks for the comment and keep in touch!
@@stroutsabout , I was getting ready to source Alpaca wool for this purpose. I found a couple of groups that were specific to Washington State... where I live. Let me know if you want assistance with that. I haven't done it yet because I have a busy summer ahead already with other structures on my land. But, I read several posts from Alpaca owners who were asking how to unload their wool. Unwashed, only shorn. That excited me, because I new I'd be able to get it when I needed it. But, that is as far as I have gotten. I am going to respond again with my email address. After you get it, delete that post, please. I'd like to ask more questions and keep in touch, because when I do get to build my bee boxes, I want to use your designs.
The frames do get stuck together, but all it takes to separate them again is sliding a knife along the seam to break the propolis. Unfortunately I'm not in a space right now to manufacture and sell the frames or their components.
I think you're over designing the outside panels. Bond closed cell insulation foam to the skins and form a rigid torsion box. Allow some space for edging which is glued and pinned to the skins, and takes screws to join the panels to the structure
@@stroutsabout What type of feeder are you using, how are you feeding them? Also, how are you treating them for mites this way? You can not use the sponge method.
Hi Michael! Thanks for the question. The bees do fill the joint with propolis, but they're easy enough to pull apart after scoring along the seam with a knife. I demonstrate this process in another of my video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html
Hi there! Thanks for the question. I'm not really set up to be producing frames for sale. After materials and time, I would have to charge a significant amount ($5/frame maybe).
As I was watching the original build video, I kept thinking about how to do build in insulation. Glad you did a follow up.
Very thoughtful design David. Well done!
Thanks Peter!
I enjoyed the thought process.
🐝-Kirsten
Very savvy hive design!
Pretty cool. I saw your last one too. I built a bunch standard 30 and 33 frame horizontal hives. Can't wait to see how it performs. Keep us updated. Great idea man.
Thank you!
look at those bees!
The vinyl bee barn has everything that you're talking about.
I just started bee keeping last year. I build my own hives also. I started with 2 long langstroth that I hate. Then I saw Bee boy Bill's layens design and frame's, and made 2 of those and frame's. I love them so much I made 3 more and the frame's, and I haven't looked back. The 2 I started with are filled and each frame probably weighs 20 pounds. They are 19 frame construction and like I said this is my first summer. If I were you I would look into it, and they are off of the plans of Dr. Leo Sharashkin. I did see your first video when you built your double deeps but it doesn't give the Queen enough room to make a circle brood pattern like the layens. So I wire all of my frames and eliminated the middle bar so they have the 12 × 15 inches of space, and they use every bit of it. Good luck and keep the bee's happy.🐝🐝🐝🐝🐝
Thanks for the comment James! It's so interesting how it seems like every beekeeper does something a little differently then everyone else.
Nice design of a modified Lazutin Hive! Snap apart double deep frames is most excellent.
Thank you!
I too have abandoned the standard vertical Lang style in favor of a Layen style but use a single modified Lang deep frame on end. My hive body is more narrow as a result and over all more manageable. the bottom can have a deep slide out drawer for winter die- off or modified double layer bottom for hive beetle traps and a bottom entry/exit. The modified lang's work as you have stated for narrower extraction units. Queen excluder's have to be placed at about 1/2 way into the box to manage honey but can be quite flexible and of course follower boards too. I prefer full width frame tops instead of cover boards and once all my current Lang supply's are used will stick with my design. Traps and hives use the same sized frame but I am going to a full 20-24 frames (36" +/- L x 10" W x 18.375" D) frame box this year. A 7-8 frame brood chamber (via exclusion) is all that is needed for the nectar flows in my area. I try to avoid any form of unbalanced feed meaning sugar in any form other than actual combed honey the bees have made. Honey robbing is a problem in my area as there is an apiary yard about a mile and a half from me and they do not apparently open feed.
I really enjoyed this video you did amazing with the designing of your hive. I’m looking at adding a flow hive to the top of mine but don’t have the mindset to put it together
love you hives and how your doing too I was like if yo had one in combination of sliding out on the side would be awesome too
I overwintered a hive this year in the insulated Layens hive I built from Dr Leo Sharaskins plans. I'm in MA also. I don't have an easy way to clean out the bottom. I have seen some hives with a large hole drilled in the bottom and installing a flanged pvc fitting with a cap screwed on one end.
I've been wondering about the cleanup too. I've seen mentions of a bottom the swings open to easily clean out the dead winter bees.
The bottom of this hive will fall out with the removal of 4 screws. However it would be super simple to make it hinge, I just got lazy at the end and decided the screws were good enough for me haha :)
I can't see how your hive is much different from the Lazutin Hive which used double deep frames. The Lazutin hive is an excellent hive. The main problem I see with it is that the hives are huge (cumbersome for transport) and the ceiling has a a very large surface area (heat dissipation) especially challenging for new colony. Happy to see you are using a high amount of insulation, especially for top. Good luck from Nelson NZ bro. Surprised you visited.
Thanks for the comment Japesh! You are right, it is very similar to the Lazutin/Sharashkin Hive. The major difference is I am using more insulation in the roof, and this hive is designed to hold my Double Deep frames.
Meant to say horizontal lang style not "vertical lang style. Tree cavities are seldom as big as a layen or even a lang but bees are flexible to a degree. Many tree cavities will have 2 inches of bark and wood combined so the bee is essentially insulated and thermally reinforced in direct sunshine. Things simple man made hives cannot replicate.. In the summer the same cavity will be "air-conditioned" to a degree from ground water flowing up through the inner-bark to feed the bark, branches and leaves. Your attempt at winter and summer insulation is spot on. How ever I think ideally lengthy rather than blocky is best for the bees in the wild. Not deviating too far from that works well with the bees flexibility. So I am converting to strictly vertical lang lengths and layens closed style tops. Additionally hives in trees will often have a hole that allows dead bees to fall out of the hive in winter die off or cupped bottoms that will allow a build up of bee bodies until spring cleaning can happen. I saw a clip by a Germany based school that actually added to the bottom of a hive to facilitate die off of late summer/fall bees. (about 3"-4"). People with langs in colder regions might want to consider this practice
Thanks for sharing Dustin!
nice job. i have been building horizontal hives for a long time. i always try to continue to improve on the design with the bee's being number 1 and the person working the bee's in 2nd. i have watched a lot of videos of others designs. the drastic increase in the cost of wood materials is not making things easy on us. but i only use #1 grade material . with proper care your hives can last much longer. again, great work , and have fun while your working in the shop.
I look forward to your build video. Can you please show your measurements in that video. Especially the internal measurements. Width, length, depth. And I have just a thought. Consider using the hyfegate to assist with pass through of the thicker walls.
Thanks for the comment! I'll be posting a build video soon! I won't go too much into the dimensions (since I have plans for sale with all of the dimensions) and rather talking more about the process, tools, and techniques. I've never used a hyfegate, but I will certainly look into them. Thanks for the tip!
Interesting to see someone using "double deep" frames. I'd like to see a hive inspection. I wonder if the bees will glue those separable double deep frames with propolis. Let's see if you can get them apart in a couple of years. It can't be too fiddly.
I actually talk about this in a couple of my other videos, especially my recent honey harvest video. While the bees do propolize the frames together, if the propolis is warm (as it is on a warm day), the frames will still easily pull apart. I've found if they are still sticking, running a knife along the seam is enough to break the "glue" joint! Of course all of this is dependent on making the dovetails the right tightness in the first place :) Thanks for the comment!
Wow, you've really thought out all the aspects of concern very well!! Other than selling the plans for building do you plan to sell completed hives or the hive components for assembly, etc.? Thank you.
You are doing a great job sharing your thought process and reasoning behind your design. I'm very interested to follow along. I've had the idea to do a double deep horizontal langstroth before, but couldn't think of a way to stack the deep frames. Your dovetail approach is simple and very ingenious. What wood type are you using to build your frames? Is it regular pine?
Thank you! Yes I'm using regular pine framing materials for the frames. I've found 2x4's and rough sawn 1x12's to be the most economical and least wasteful.
@@stroutsabout do you plan on selling frames?
I'm currently exploring the feasibility of selling unassembled frames. However I will definitely have the plans available for purchase in the next few weeks
Great follow-up video! I'm happy to see that I (and many others) aren't the only ones wondering about improving the homes we put our colonies in. Only you have the curiosity and intelligence to do it!
A few things to consider and to get your genius working even more: when the winter bees die and fall to the bottom of the (currently-used) hive, they can block the entrance, in the wild, there is a 2 inch space (or so) below the entrance (so it doesn't get blocked); consider how a slatted rack is used in Langstroth hives to help that and over heating in summer.
In regards to insulation: take a look at the Finnish design (Bee Box). It's compressed poly - maybe use something similar to insulate the hive walls.
Frames: The middle slate (joint) between both halves looks a little too thick (the brood and resources are divided). Is there a way to make that joint thinner while keeping your fantastic (REALLY!) design to join them?
You've got a new groupie! (Though I won't be showing up at your door... LOL!)
All great ideas that I will certainly keep in mind moving forward! :)
Looking forward to your next video down in southern Louisiana Atchafalaya Basin on the Banks of the Atchafalaya River
Keith Devillier
Thanks Keith!
I love what you are doing. Being on the older side of life, I would be interested in the basic design (insulation walls, etc) for a single deep Langstroth frame as opposed to the double deep you show here. Have you thought about creating design plans for a single deep version?
Hi Joel thanks for the kind words! I have not made any plans for a single deep version and probably won't. I think plenty of plans exist for a "long Lang" and then it would be fairly simple to wrap it with insulation. I also just moved and started a new job, so I've got a lot else on my plate at the moment haha! Happy beekeeping!
vewhat about converting the az slovenian hive into your desisng for like another version? I want to get into bee keeping but for me older women the weight of things would deture me and Im sure older people who are already in the industry. Do you think about these type frames?
Horizontal hives.com does sell extraction equipment universal for any size frames.
Hi! Thanks for the comment. I love horizontalhive.com, but I haven't seen any universal honey extractors. All I can find on there are Layens extractors, and for way out of my price range haha. I'd much rather pay $150 for a cheap manual Langstroth extractor than $700 for a manual Layens extractor :)
@Jerry Don Thanks for the info Jerry that's good to know! And thanks for catching my misspelled link :)
Congrats for the insight and awesome content of the Video. Are there Plans for this Hive BUT in the Metric System?
Hi Joao! Thanks for the question. I don’t currently have plans in the metric system, but it wouldn’t be too hard for me to make a set with the dimensions converted. Let me know if you’re interested and I’ll make up a set.
@@stroutsabout Looking forward to it, Mr David! You just missed ALL the beekeepers that use the Metric System; and the Imperial System (specially for me being an European) it´s quite hard to understand it; because sometimes, it´s not a "straight forward conversion" matter.
David, thank you, really enjoyed this video and learned a lot. I love to visit neighborhood bee hives, although I don’t keep bees myself. I’m thinking about your tree trunk reference. Do bees benefit from outside noise being dampened by the thick bark? Does external sound or vibration disturb them and if so
does insulation help with that as well as temperature stability? Just curious! I am subscribed and can’t wait to learn more :)
Hi Marie! Thanks for the comment. It's an interesting question you raise about sound exposure and I don't have a good answer for you. After doing a quick search, it seems like the effect of sound levels on bees has not been researched very well. Maybe something to experiment with in the future :)
Nice to see the follow-up, David! I can't wait to see the results. Have you thought about using Alpaca or sheep's wool as insulation? There are Alpaca orgs on Facebook. That is a great place to source materials, if you are interested. It doesn't have to be cleaned or processed before use as insulation. Though, I am unsure about the absorption of condensation properties. It is full of natural lanolin. It wouldn't hurt the wool, just not sure if it would absorb well enough. I am thinking an Alpaca's skin never (or rarely) gets wet... with the wool and the lanolin. I would also think that the wet air would absorb (into the wool) and dry quickly, but I am not sure. will you use a barrier between the hive and the roof insulation?
Thanks Linda! That's a great idea about using wool as a natural insulator. I think it would work especially well in the roof as it would absorb moisture as well. I do worry about it losing it's insulation value if it gets wet, but maybe that's something to experiment with. Do you have an Alpaca group in mind that I could look into? For the insulation in the roof, I do plan on having a thin plywood layer between the roof insulation and the colony, although the tops of the frames will actually touch each other and serve as the hive's roof. Thanks for the comment and keep in touch!
@@stroutsabout , I was getting ready to source Alpaca wool for this purpose. I found a couple of groups that were specific to Washington State... where I live. Let me know if you want assistance with that. I haven't done it yet because I have a busy summer ahead already with other structures on my land. But, I read several posts from Alpaca owners who were asking how to unload their wool. Unwashed, only shorn. That excited me, because I new I'd be able to get it when I needed it. But, that is as far as I have gotten. I am going to respond again with my email address. After you get it, delete that post, please. I'd like to ask more questions and keep in touch, because when I do get to build my bee boxes, I want to use your designs.
@@stroutsabout Sheeps wool is a good one - can also put it in the bottom of the hive (below screening)
what makes it horizontal? the orientation is the same as all hives.
Did the bees make it super hard to slide the frames apart? Are you will to sell and ship some un assembled frames?
The frames do get stuck together, but all it takes to separate them again is sliding a knife along the seam to break the propolis. Unfortunately I'm not in a space right now to manufacture and sell the frames or their components.
I think you're over designing the outside panels. Bond closed cell insulation foam to the skins and form a rigid torsion box. Allow some space for edging which is glued and pinned to the skins, and takes screws to join the panels to the structure
I like that idea. What would you use to bond the foam to the outer skins?
@@stroutsabout My first pick would be polyurethane for adhesion but I'd test first on a scrap of foam first. You might do better faced PIR (Kingspan).
Awesome!!!
Are you laying inner boards above your frames?
Not with this design. The tops of each frame perfectly mesh so you don’t need inner boards
@@stroutsabout What type of feeder are you using, how are you feeding them? Also, how are you treating them for mites this way? You can not use the sponge method.
how easy is it to take the frames apart after being with the bees do they glue it together
Hi Michael! Thanks for the question. The bees do fill the joint with propolis, but they're easy enough to pull apart after scoring along the seam with a knife. I demonstrate this process in another of my video: th-cam.com/video/Km_gnaZK4Bw/w-d-xo.html
@@stroutsabout have you tried soap or paraffin wax to help the wood slide easier as it dose on tools
Hey. Are you willing to make some of those frames for me to purchase off you
Hi there! Thanks for the question. I'm not really set up to be producing frames for sale. After materials and time, I would have to charge a significant amount ($5/frame maybe).
do you follow frederick dunns you tube ?
I do. He produces great content
Similar to what Vino Farms done.
It is a similar concept!
These aren't new ideas. Double deep horizontal hives have been used in many country's fort hundreds of years. Check out Lazutin, or layens
.