As I say: 4 stars and below are there if you want a challenge, 5 stars are there if want to actually interact with the game and enemy mechanics, and 6 stars are there if you want to ignore the mechanics.
@@kyarumomochi5146 HG being bad at designing 5 stars dates back to even launch. They purposely nerfed Skyfire from the closed beta because she was rivaling the 6 stars at that time. Considering the launch 5 stars that also rivaled the 6 stars at launch, there was no reason for them to nerf Skyfire.
@@echigokurogane8612 Tbh they nerfed skyfire for no reason as even if she wasnt nerfed and even if her kit had double the damage she would suck compared to eyja s2 anyway HG was just scared of arts damage
@@kyarumomochi5146 Correction, they were and still are scared of Splash casters dealing a lot of damage, despite the fact that it is supposed to be what they do in order to make up for all their downsides.
@@echigokurogane8612 Not really. They havent even made a single new 6 star aoe caster yet so saying that would be wrong. They made the flinger archtype kill patriot in a single skill cycle so if they made a splash caster now be sure it would be broken
Ah yes, la pluma's niche... aoe self sufficient waveclearing... Very niche and it's insanely difficult to stack her passive I mean she has to kill a bunch of units...almost like that's what the archetype is used for. Also making up some wack ass way to calculate mats to illustrate material cost instead of simply using a planner (I used the gamepress one) shows 5 stars are roughly half the cost of a 6 star, whilst 4 stars are roughly a third of the cost of a 6 star: Fully leveled, mod 3 s3m3 Exalter was 30.891 sanity, e2 max/mod3 La pluma with s2 m3 was 18.447 sanity and e2 max/mod3 Humus s1 m3 was 9.801 sanity (Yes ik la pluma's s1 is also really good to use, but I just wanted to illustrate 1 skill and I think that one is a bit more used) I guess it's only worth mentioning module data blocks (FINITE resource cause that's HG) cost is gon be low with lower rarity. Also there's a bunch of 5 stars that fullfill such a good job or simply have unconstestable passives/skills that they often find spots even in 6 star squads or are simply strong enough to be considered worth using especially taking the cost to build into account. It's genuinely ridiculous to be just making up your own metric of resource calculation when we literally have tools that do it for us lmao and then you miss the mark by such a landslide too
the only issue with this video I find is, that we fail to account for other modes outside of chapters. 5 stars and 4 stars are awesome for IS mode, because of the hope system, I have been playing the game since year 1, and although I have all 6 stars for the chapter playthrough I use all my built 6 stars, for IS, SSS and most other game modes where you are restricted in which rarity is needed or where using my build 6 star is too costly I use 5 stars. since I play IS a lot I build a lot of 5 and 4 stars to use while I get the 1 or 2 main 6 stars boss killers I have built. another thing people forget is that as the game ages, most 5 good stars get left behind. Glaucus was widely used in early arknight stages because we did have a chapter with fast-flying enemies along with enemies that slowed attack speed, they were not really a 6-star that could handle or skill that lasted long enough to deal with the onslaught of fast aerial enemies, and so on, practically every 5 star was usable and good at one point on until they where power crepted by a 6 star or better 5 stars. Even looking at the archetypes some of them were greatly needed in the early days but most got left behind as the game aged. I remember when building Hellagur was a must for earlier CC days, now I don't even use my Hellagur as I have other ops that just straight up out DPS and out sustain him. Specter with skill 2 was a must to stall out bosses in CC but now you have more options to stall bosses with either frozen, stun, bind, sleep, etc all things we didn't have access to previously. Liskarm was used as an SP battery before stainless came along, and there was feater and cliffheart when pushing and pulling enemies into holes was the best way to deal with some stages. Also, most 5 stars cost more DP, and with DP restrictions and slow generations, it made the cheaper 5 stars easier and better to use in CC. but u get the point, almost all the 5 stars were usable and worth building at some point in the game's life, with a very small handful of just garbage ones like Frostleaf and so on, that were pointless to use. Nowadays almost all new 5 stars fail to be relevant because we just have too many good six stars now that we didn't have before. My final comment is this is a strategy game when you create your own teams at the end of the day. So you can play with all the broken ops, Surtr, mlynar, etc, and make the game braindead easy or give yourself a challenge, at the end of the day it is up to the player on what level of fun they want to have.
Exactly what I was about to say. Plus IS5 just got announced where 4 stars are free to recruit and 5 stars can be recruited with a lower cost than in IS4.
While the cost problem is real and should not be ignored, I think the point system is very skewed in favor of the 6*. A T2 material is practically worthless in sanity cost, while a T5 Material is made up of 3-4 T4 Mats, each consisting of 3-4 T3 mats themselves. Tle LMD/XP Cost being let out is also skeweing the balance even more: with the amount of money and XP you need to E2 70 a 4Star, you can't even bring a 6Star to E2 1. so a T5 Mat being woirth 5 Points vs. a T3 Mat at 3 pointsseems unfair to me, as if you break that T3 Mat down into its T3 Componets, it's suddenly worth 30 points. Or about 14, if you take T4s as the reference, as T5s can only be crafted (or gotten from event rewards). That Executor score is decievingly low, even though your point still stands.
@@echigokurogane8612 While that's true, it's not my point. I used a resource calculator (Gamepress) to determine the cost for Executor Ex Foedere, Highmore and Humus to convert the material costs to sanity value (not an exact cost measurement either, but closer to ingame time spent than the points in the video), substacting LMD/XP-Costs, for getting them from 0 to E2 Max, S2M3. (note: this includes the pretty minor cost of the first Skill levels up to 7 and Skill Books, other than the video, but those should not make a difference). Sanity Cost overestimates the amount of resources needed by a bit, due to passive gains through events and quests. The Material Cost for the 6Star ccomes out at about 13'300 Sanity, plus 1.3 Million LMD and 1.1 Million XP. For the 5Star, the values come out at 9600 Sanity, 810'000 LMD and 730'000 XP. The 4Star clocks in at a meager 5100 Sanity in materials, and 480'000 LMD and XP each.So while yes, it is efficient to keep to mostly 4Stars and 6Stars, the resource gap between 5Stars and 6Stars is way bigger than the point-based evaluation in the video suggests.
I just think that only a handful are worth building like others been saying the resource cost just isn’t worth it most of the time unless you are playing niche knights or something
@@2265Hello Yes, unfortunately a lot of 5Stars are not worth it unless you really like them or want to play a niche. That said, even if most 5Stars are not a part ofd the meta and a waste of resources for a meta-focussed player, they can also be a lot of fun to mess around with, especially as a veteran. There's only a handful of 5Stars I would recommend to newer or meta-focussed players.
My favorite 5-star has always been Hung. 🐶 He was my motivation for getting into Arknights, and he's been my go-to defender when I needed to cheese my way through stages. I would often use him to stall bosses. Certainly, Saria, Nearl, and even Gummy can do the same, but it's most amusing to watch my carefree doggo take a bunch of hits just to heal himself. Elysium, Texas, and Silence have been my most useful 5-stars. I'm absolutely a huge an of utility because it makes the game interesting. I even built Heavyrain to turn any guard into an assassin. Also, Aosta 🗿
It’d be easier to pick on Off-Meta 5Star of each class instead of picking just one Zima: She’s a funny Soviet Beargirl. Really not that deep Sideroca: I’m a bit offended that Silvergun forgets she exists b/c she’s the only melee unit with both Self-Healing and Arts Damage Asbestos: She’s particularly good at soaking up Arts Damage and retaliating with her own. She’s very effective vs. Ch13 Bloodborn Spawn Toddifons: Speaking of Ch13, she can wreck Sarkaz Elites with her Big Dick Ballista Damage. -Also them thighs- Iris: I think Mystic Casters are generally underrated. It’s very satisfying to watch her OHKO an Elite with 4 saved Charges Silence: Global Healing Drone is just a cool concept. Wish it were stronger tho Sora: She doesn’t do True Damage and her Atk Buff isn’t as high, but at least she doesn’t kill herself w/o a babysitter Iana: She’s my favorite R6 Operator, her kit seems pretty cool, and she’s just sexy af
Not a bad video in general but there are some really unfair arguments and points in here. The biggest being the point system. Yea, you may need a "negligible amount of points" between a 5 and 6 star for upgrading by your system but the time to acquire those materials being handwaved is ludicrous. T5 mats are so much more difficult to get than T3 and T4 mats, especially since they can only be crafted and not farmed (outside of events) meaning they have the extra downside of costing LMD on top of the sanity to acquire the lower tier mats. Where you could be lucky and get a T3 or T4 mat from a map drop you can't with a T5. Being only possible to be crafted in the workshop also limits you based on operator moral, not a big issue but if this is targeted towards newer players they likely don't have many operators to fill out their base to be dumping moral into much crafting. 5 Stars aren't nearly as useful as they used to be now that we have 6 stars that have powercrept the old 6 stars that many 5 stars were balanced around and 5 stars haven't really been given a chance to keep up. But again, with a newer player they likely don't have or don't have access to many 6 stars and are significantly more likely to have 5 stars that can, and I'd argue should, be used as stopgaps. For the most part the main stages can be cleared by full 4 star teams but expecting newer players to do that on their own (as in not watching a guide) is just asking, no begging, them to quit the game. If they don't have any, or any good, 6 stars and they see something like this telling them to NEVER level up a 5 star because they are NEVER worth it it's not healthy for their gameplay experience especially if it brick walls them. I'd rather a newer player spend a few extra resources on a decent 5 star than save up all their resources for a theoretical 6 star they may never get because they leave the game because they feel the game is too hard or too slow. For Example: Blue Poison may not be as powerful as she once was but anyone saying that it's a waste to invest in her doesn't understand what it's like to be without a powerful 6 star sniper or is forgetting that when people start a game without guides and such they see something like Kroos or Jessica and ignore them because they are only 3 & 4 stars. Ptilopsis is a wonderful AoE medic with an SP regen trait. She's only 5 star but if you aren't running with a team that can just kill everything before it kills you she's super useful. Texas is a great vanguard, yes others hold lanes better and myrtle exists but she's still very solid at the start of most stages, especially with her module (I feel it's fair to bring up modules since you are counting T5 Mats as only marginally harder to get than T4 mats). Guess what, Vanguards are meant to be good early in each stage and she fits that. Amiya, obviously is a 5 star, and obviously needs to be leveled up for the story but is again, an excellent caster worthy of investment. You mention her and effectively say she's a waste of resources, but Lappland is still extremely useful for many players. Again, I get that "silence is niche" but when it comes to silencing she's still one of the best to do it that's easily accessible. Any stage with self destructing enemies she stops that, stages with aerial targets that debuff OPs or buffs enemies and she can handle them. She also fills a roll as a ground unit that can hit air. She's no thorns or silver ash but she fits in in certain situations and is useful in them. 5 Stars absolutely need a buff, be it in cost reduction or with a module, but I despise the idea of never upgrading them because it's a bad investment. Because it's not. Even in the Main Theme they're good and in stuff like IS or certain challenge stages having a build E2+ 5 star can be invaluable. It honestly feels disingenuous to tell someone never to build any 5 stars other than the ones on Vosz's video saying it's intended for newer players while also handwaving some of the most important aspects, costs, and downsides to the entire upgrade process.
This video: "5star bad because 4x3=4 then 3x4=5" Wow I didn't knew I could just combine 5 T1 mats to get a T5, I've been wasting so many T4 all these years... IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD IS A T5 MATS WORTH THE SAME AS A T3 + a T2??? In all seriouseness how about we try calculating the cost but we convert every T4 and T5 mats to the amount of T3 needed to craft them, because that's how most of us farm. I wrote it: E2+M3(+module), I'm using Highmore S2 and Exec S3 as exemple for the calcul. I left T1 and 2 out of the equation because who tf run out of these/actively farm them... Highmore = 49+74(+44) = 123(167) Tier3 mats Exec Alter = 57+144(+100) = 201(301) Tier3 mats Wich pretty much fit with the idea that 6star are more or less twice the cost of a 5star, wich also include LMD and EXP. Also for module, remember that 6star require twice the amount of module datablock a 5star need as well, wich are a time-gated ressources. TL;DR We can build BOTH Highmore and La Pluma using pretty much as much ressources we need to build Executor, it's not "a little more investment". PS: that "points acording to material tier" gave me a stroke, and the fact that no on in the comment question the fact that a 5star would cost 90% of the cost of a 6star to E2M3 made me lose the little hope I still had in the EN community...
@@Z_04_Q You mean trying looking past the whole point of the video? You're telling me that when you see someone telling you that 5star cost 90% of the mats a 6star need, your first reaction is not "where the fuck did that bullshit come from"?
Totally unhinged post but you're correct, the calculations in the video are sus AF. I'm also surprised that you didn't mention the fact that they said La Pluma was niche because she has to kill enemies. You know since most of the stages in Arknights we don't kill enemies?!?! This feels like a classic case of analysis with a bias towards the narrative.
Lappland is a very poor example to use for a 5 star with a small niche. Sure, she might have a silence talent that's become increasingly irrelevant with time, but she still does 1.2k arts dps with S2, while also being multitarget, making her a very strong general laneholder when placed behind a defender. I don't want to get into the misconceptions about La Pluma, so you'll only have to deal with me complaining about your use of an arbitrary point system when comparing the value of materials. There is, and has been for a long time, a farming spreadsheet that calculates not only the best stages to farm, but also the actual sanity value of any material given the available stages that can be farmed. Considering that it takes 3-4 t3 to make 1 t4 mat, and 3-4 t4 to make 1 t5 mat, the point scaling isn't even accurate in the same category, heavily inflating the apparent cost of 4 and 5* compared to 6*.
I would say that when the game was released, 5* were quite in the balance. They were pretty strong and some even competeted with their 6* counterparts such as ptilopsis, texas, specter and so on. But because of recent meta changes, 6* keep getting stronger and stronger, and 5* are just left in dust. Most of the 5* we get nowadays are very underwhelming. The most part of strong 5* is about 3 years old. Yeah, there are 5* that are pretty decent in comparison to weak 6* such as proviso vs angelina thing, but most of the recent 5* just suck at everything. And yes, you could say things such as Coldshot isn't bad, she is pretty useable and she does big damagebut there are just many more 6* that do better. Proviso does better than angelina s2, yet dont forget, there is suzuran that doesnt suffer low range and is way more useful because of the fragility she applies. There essentially is a 6* answer to almost every 5* in the game, that just does the job better. And honestly, out of all the 5* it really is just ptilopsis being viable right now. Ptilopsis is honestly an unfinished 6*. She doesnt just have a niche, she has a talent that consistently works everywhere. And her healing is not outclassed. She still does one of the highest hps total per second. So yes, if we forget about ptilopsis for a bit, the 5* scene is really lacking. Also I feel sick of talking about various 5* over and over again and essentially making the same argument so ill shut up
As a F2P player, are you telling me to not invest in a Niche I might be having problems with (silence for the stupid fish) and just magically come across 6 stars with their materials? My core team is 5 star based XD
Unless you are E2ing literally every operator you shouldn't have any shortage of materials, you get so many that the whole argument whether 5* are worth it or not ends up being completely pointless. I have so many operators leveled and skills M3'd that I decided to do on a whim and I'm still sitting on big a hoard of mats.
From my 1 years experience play arknight i build only boss killer 6 star op and most of my op are 4 star and little bit 5 star like Lappland, red, mulberry. Myrtle easily my most used op.
you've forgotten something very important here, sir. where exactly is my replacement for the best archetype in the game? you know, ARTS PROTECTORS. hmm, seems to me there isn't a 6 star yet? and let's see the four star represen... oh. oh no... it's Dur-nar! hm, now how am I gonna go about avoiding the five stars there... despite a... clear and distinct superiority in the three different examples provided at that rarity? ah, gee... look at me, a real know-nothin'... ramblin' on like this, guess I'll get outta your hair...
Ngl Durnar is already good enough. Like, what exactly do you need that much arts defence or arts damage when you can just face tank with overwhelming hp from other defenders or literally just bring a caster? Arts Protectors themselves are already niche enough, and the only way I can see someone build them is either the account is new or their nicheknights, literally any other defender can tank arts damage just fine. Also if you're going to say Asbestos, Shalem and Czerny can provide dps, there are literally other operators to use, and defenders, unless they're like Eunectus or Penance archetype, don't need to focus on damage. Even if your account is a fresh one, I would recommend building other operators over Arts Protectors. If you say the archetype has resistance, while other defenders have no resistance, bring a medic, as much as arts damage is far more dangerous that physical damage, early game account is tolerable, while mid to late game accounts would have ways to counter those situations where arts damage would overrun the defense. Additionally, if we are just comparing Durnar to the other three. Shalem is rng as hell unless you give him the situation to focus burst on a single target (or you're using him in IS2), Czerny's aoe explosion damage requires being hit to increase the damage, and while he does receive taunt, it's still a very inconsistent and situational burst damage. Asbestos is basically the only good and consistent upgrade to Durnar, and still, she does basically the same thing Durnar does albeit with aoe damage, which in most cases is likely to be shot on the tile in front of her cause she's a defender. With the rather small difference in stats (583 and 633 damage for Durnar and Asbestos respectively in max lvl, as well as only a 10% dmg increase difference at s2m3 between the two), it really is not worth building Asbestos cause Durnar is just cheaper. I am not saying the archetype is bad, there are worse, but it's just really niche. If you go to Integrated Strategies, you're more willing to spend your Hope on a cheaper 4 star or a more powerful 6 star than a 5 star who are expensive in hope but not as game changing as 6 stars.
I mean, you either use Nightingale to invalidate Arts damage, or you use Amiya Guard because you're forced to E2 her if you want to do story and she has 60% Arts Dodge on skill and 20 RES, which means that on average she takes only 32% of the Arts damage coming her way (Asbestos has 25 RES, takes 30% less damage on skill, so he takes only 52.5%, Czerny has 25 RES, increased to 50 on skill, so he takes only 50%, Shalem has 15 RES) (Also if you're using Arts Protector to deal Arts damage... use like, any decent Caster or Arts Guard, which could include Amiya, instead)
@@byeguyssry you can invalidate 90% of the game's roster with this chain of logic, or you can play into everyone's niches and find ways to more directly and pointedly deal with threats. Did you know Czerny's talent reflect can solo kill the chapter 9 flame throwers within one use of their sustained fire skill? You could kill them easier with yato alter or something like that, of course, but I'd have stopped playing a while ago, doing things like that
Ok it's a nice video with some valid arguments, but what in the f world is that reaper comparison, here might be some problems with it. (1) You ignored the s1 because its "basic damage" Well, for one executor is ammo base, and has a significant down time, and since la pluma got her aspd stakes, her damage out put will be much higher than the others (tho still lower then executor) (2) In the s2 comparison you showed the dph numbers, and didn't showed the dps number (tho you did showed the order of their dps)... The problem with that is because dph isn't a great way to compare damage, it basically only comes out when you are trying to factor in def, (tho yes, being able to know how they do when faced with defence is important) So my question is, why don't you just show the average dps? Like la pluma dps= [650+75(full trust)] * 1.7(skill) /(1.3*0.5)(attack interval) = 1896... Humus dps= [616+30(full trust)+35(max pod)] * 1.9(skill) / 1.3(attack interval) = 995... Almost a 2 times difference, (and this is without considering la pluma's talent, so idk what you mean by "but this implies la pluma got her aspd stakes")
Chips and chip catalysts are main problem in my opinion Resources at one point start to pile up when you got most of your main team biult and stop being much of a matter But chips and catalysts are always a trouble You need red certs for catalysts and the last stage gives you ~20 of them while costing 30 sanity and need 270-360 of them for a 5*-6* And chips 36 sanity per stage 50% chance of getting one you need(thank hg we can transmute in 3:2 ratio) And stages are not always open And there are events that consume all sanity if you want to buy everything from the store and farm resources I don't know what could be a potential improvement but i think it's too late to change Maybe make catalysts cost less is at least something But hg most likely will never do anything about it ,like the base which is still in beta
You know if you are going to use math, can it at least be good math? every material in the game has an established sanity value, you don't need to invent your own point system based off, god knows what. I will say if you do Integrated strategies 6 stars are easier to build than maybe even 4 stars. as it gives high end materials. I would use my sanity for farming for 4 stars and my IS rewards to raise 6 stars. not exactly for math, but just because of the structure of IS rewards we could end up easily with 8 e2 six stars after which clearing content isn't going to be an issue and we can raise whatever we want.
Then you have 5 Stars like Texas. Who can out perform some 6 stars of the same subclass. And is only outclassed by ONE Six star unit. And Texas is F2P friendly thanks to pinboard missions.
Dp cost is another problem, since we have flagpipe, the small dp cost different doesnt justify the stat dif. If i am really tight on dp and need to deploy, 4 stars are way better
very good and informative video but kinda want to hear about Voz oppinion about 5 star more like discussion or his point of view and your point that would feels more like a colaboration for me but still a very good video, Keep up the good work!
At first we planned on making this more like a discussion. But because both of us wanted to have a video in our style we decided to instead make videos with cameos. Maybe we will do a proper discussion in the future
La Pluma is purely a dps unit, her dps might be lower but it usually means that she's better against higher defense. Also her S2 making her attack really fast is good for enemies or mechanics that need you to hit them a lot to die/work
Using the Arknights Operator Planner, from absolutely no upgrades to E2 50, M3 for Skill 1 (her more common skill), and module Lv3, Highmore takes 14757 Sanity(on average) to farm using the Fast Farming Plan (16485 with the Value Farming Plan). 1800 of this Sanity is spent on farming LMD, 1440 on EXP, and 1410 on Red Certs, but you typically farm LMD and EXP from base and you rarely run out of red certs. Removing these, the Sanity cost is reduced to 10107 (11907). There's also 420 on Skill Upgrade Books. Comparatively, La Pluma takes 9303 (11457) Sanity to farm after removing LMD and EXP costs. On average, 9705 Sanity for the two five stars Meanwhile, Executor Alter takes 11679 (14961) Sanity to farm, increased to 16575 (19713) when including LMD and EXP Humus takes 4998 (5835) Sanity, increased to 7410 (8211) when including LMD and EXP. The 5 star operators take ~94% more Sanity than the 4 star, ~17% less than the 6 star (I'd like to note that the quick but flawed maths in the vid paints the 5 stars as costing ~12% less than the 6 star, but only 49% more than the 4 star)
A fun comparison for me is how I started playing the game at the same time as an irl friend. The main difference between our accounts is how I have gotten a lot better luck with 6*. Mathematically I have gotten about 1 6* from recruiting every month (10/23 6* are recruited). I have double the 6*s of my irl friends 6* roster. With this my friend has had substituted all the 6* with 5* to be competitive with me. An example of the difference is how I float around 2 mil Lmd, my friend barely broke past 1 mil a few days ago and is already below 1 mil again. It created an interesting difference of masteries and experimentation also.
![[Arknights] These are the Archetype i want](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/x3fNIE7YvfE/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Arknights] These are the Archetype i want](/img/tr.png)
![[Arknights] You can always build these Operators](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/gu2nAhZhKjg/mqdefault.jpg)
![[Limbus Company] Status Archetypes Current State | Season 4 Report](/img/n.gif)
As I say: 4 stars and below are there if you want a challenge, 5 stars are there if want to actually interact with the game and enemy mechanics, and 6 stars are there if you want to ignore the mechanics.
Idk why you always defend 5 stars but most are just not good dude. HG has a habit of making trash 5 stars in fear of how good OG 5 stars became
@@kyarumomochi5146 HG being bad at designing 5 stars dates back to even launch. They purposely nerfed Skyfire from the closed beta because she was rivaling the 6 stars at that time. Considering the launch 5 stars that also rivaled the 6 stars at launch, there was no reason for them to nerf Skyfire.
@@echigokurogane8612 Tbh they nerfed skyfire for no reason as even if she wasnt nerfed and even if her kit had double the damage she would suck compared to eyja s2 anyway
HG was just scared of arts damage
@@kyarumomochi5146 Correction, they were and still are scared of Splash casters dealing a lot of damage, despite the fact that it is supposed to be what they do in order to make up for all their downsides.
@@echigokurogane8612 Not really. They havent even made a single new 6 star aoe caster yet so saying that would be wrong. They made the flinger archtype kill patriot in a single skill cycle so if they made a splash caster now be sure it would be broken
Ah yes, la pluma's niche... aoe self sufficient waveclearing... Very niche and it's insanely difficult to stack her passive I mean she has to kill a bunch of units...almost like that's what the archetype is used for.
Also making up some wack ass way to calculate mats to illustrate material cost instead of simply using a planner (I used the gamepress one) shows 5 stars are roughly half the cost of a 6 star, whilst 4 stars are roughly a third of the cost of a 6 star:
Fully leveled, mod 3 s3m3 Exalter was 30.891 sanity, e2 max/mod3 La pluma with s2 m3 was 18.447 sanity and e2 max/mod3 Humus s1 m3 was 9.801 sanity (Yes ik la pluma's s1 is also really good to use, but I just wanted to illustrate 1 skill and I think that one is a bit more used) I guess it's only worth mentioning module data blocks (FINITE resource cause that's HG) cost is gon be low with lower rarity.
Also there's a bunch of 5 stars that fullfill such a good job or simply have unconstestable passives/skills that they often find spots even in 6 star squads or are simply strong enough to be considered worth using especially taking the cost to build into account.
It's genuinely ridiculous to be just making up your own metric of resource calculation when we literally have tools that do it for us lmao and then you miss the mark by such a landslide too
the only issue with this video I find is, that we fail to account for other modes outside of chapters. 5 stars and 4 stars are awesome for IS mode, because of the hope system, I have been playing the game since year 1, and although I have all 6 stars for the chapter playthrough I use all my built 6 stars, for IS, SSS and most other game modes where you are restricted in which rarity is needed or where using my build 6 star is too costly I use 5 stars. since I play IS a lot I build a lot of 5 and 4 stars to use while I get the 1 or 2 main 6 stars boss killers I have built.
another thing people forget is that as the game ages, most 5 good stars get left behind. Glaucus was widely used in early arknight stages because we did have a chapter with fast-flying enemies along with enemies that slowed attack speed, they were not really a 6-star that could handle or skill that lasted long enough to deal with the onslaught of fast aerial enemies, and so on, practically every 5 star was usable and good at one point on until they where power crepted by a 6 star or better 5 stars.
Even looking at the archetypes some of them were greatly needed in the early days but most got left behind as the game aged. I remember when building Hellagur was a must for earlier CC days, now I don't even use my Hellagur as I have other ops that just straight up out DPS and out sustain him. Specter with skill 2 was a must to stall out bosses in CC but now you have more options to stall bosses with either frozen, stun, bind, sleep, etc all things we didn't have access to previously. Liskarm was used as an SP battery before stainless came along, and there was feater and cliffheart when pushing and pulling enemies into holes was the best way to deal with some stages. Also, most 5 stars cost more DP, and with DP restrictions and slow generations, it made the cheaper 5 stars easier and better to use in CC.
but u get the point, almost all the 5 stars were usable and worth building at some point in the game's life, with a very small handful of just garbage ones like Frostleaf and so on, that were pointless to use. Nowadays almost all new 5 stars fail to be relevant because we just have too many good six stars now that we didn't have before.
My final comment is this is a strategy game when you create your own teams at the end of the day. So you can play with all the broken ops, Surtr, mlynar, etc, and make the game braindead easy or give yourself a challenge, at the end of the day it is up to the player on what level of fun they want to have.
Exactly what I was about to say. Plus IS5 just got announced where 4 stars are free to recruit and 5 stars can be recruited with a lower cost than in IS4.
nah, the most braindead way to play the game is to watch guides and being subscribed to either Kyo/Oyuki
While the cost problem is real and should not be ignored, I think the point system is very skewed in favor of the 6*. A T2 material is practically worthless in sanity cost, while a T5 Material is made up of 3-4 T4 Mats, each consisting of 3-4 T3 mats themselves. Tle LMD/XP Cost being let out is also skeweing the balance even more: with the amount of money and XP you need to E2 70 a 4Star, you can't even bring a 6Star to E2 1. so a T5 Mat being woirth 5 Points vs. a T3 Mat at 3 pointsseems unfair to me, as if you break that T3 Mat down into its T3 Componets, it's suddenly worth 30 points. Or about 14, if you take T4s as the reference, as T5s can only be crafted (or gotten from event rewards). That Executor score is decievingly low, even though your point still stands.
Yeah, pretty much everything in this game is skewed in 6 star’s favor, that’s just how gacha games work in general.
@@echigokurogane8612 While that's true, it's not my point. I used a resource calculator (Gamepress) to determine the cost for Executor Ex Foedere, Highmore and Humus to convert the material costs to sanity value (not an exact cost measurement either, but closer to ingame time spent than the points in the video), substacting LMD/XP-Costs, for getting them from 0 to E2 Max, S2M3. (note: this includes the pretty minor cost of the first Skill levels up to 7 and Skill Books, other than the video, but those should not make a difference). Sanity Cost overestimates the amount of resources needed by a bit, due to passive gains through events and quests.
The Material Cost for the 6Star ccomes out at about 13'300 Sanity, plus 1.3 Million LMD and 1.1 Million XP.
For the 5Star, the values come out at 9600 Sanity, 810'000 LMD and 730'000 XP.
The 4Star clocks in at a meager 5100 Sanity in materials, and 480'000 LMD and XP each.So while yes, it is efficient to keep to mostly 4Stars and 6Stars, the resource gap between 5Stars and 6Stars is way bigger than the point-based evaluation in the video suggests.
I just think that only a handful are worth building like others been saying the resource cost just isn’t worth it most of the time unless you are playing niche knights or something
@@2265Hello Yes, unfortunately a lot of 5Stars are not worth it unless you really like them or want to play a niche. That said, even if most 5Stars are not a part ofd the meta and a waste of resources for a meta-focussed player, they can also be a lot of fun to mess around with, especially as a veteran. There's only a handful of 5Stars I would recommend to newer or meta-focussed players.
@@AnarethsEnde well with the Shu event we will finally get another power creep to Myrtle
Too bad I can't hear
Nicheknights go brrrr
My favorite 5-star has always been Hung. 🐶
He was my motivation for getting into Arknights, and he's been my go-to defender when I needed to cheese my way through stages. I would often use him to stall bosses. Certainly, Saria, Nearl, and even Gummy can do the same, but it's most amusing to watch my carefree doggo take a bunch of hits just to heal himself. Elysium, Texas, and Silence have been my most useful 5-stars. I'm absolutely a huge an of utility because it makes the game interesting. I even built Heavyrain to turn any guard into an assassin.
Also, Aosta 🗿
It’d be easier to pick on Off-Meta 5Star of each class instead of picking just one
Zima: She’s a funny Soviet Beargirl. Really not that deep
Sideroca: I’m a bit offended that Silvergun forgets she exists b/c she’s the only melee unit with both Self-Healing and Arts Damage
Asbestos: She’s particularly good at soaking up Arts Damage and retaliating with her own. She’s very effective vs. Ch13 Bloodborn Spawn
Toddifons: Speaking of Ch13, she can wreck Sarkaz Elites with her Big Dick Ballista Damage. -Also them thighs-
Iris: I think Mystic Casters are generally underrated. It’s very satisfying to watch her OHKO an Elite with 4 saved Charges
Silence: Global Healing Drone is just a cool concept. Wish it were stronger tho
Sora: She doesn’t do True Damage and her Atk Buff isn’t as high, but at least she doesn’t kill herself w/o a babysitter
Iana: She’s my favorite R6 Operator, her kit seems pretty cool, and she’s just sexy af
Not a bad video in general but there are some really unfair arguments and points in here. The biggest being the point system. Yea, you may need a "negligible amount of points" between a 5 and 6 star for upgrading by your system but the time to acquire those materials being handwaved is ludicrous. T5 mats are so much more difficult to get than T3 and T4 mats, especially since they can only be crafted and not farmed (outside of events) meaning they have the extra downside of costing LMD on top of the sanity to acquire the lower tier mats. Where you could be lucky and get a T3 or T4 mat from a map drop you can't with a T5. Being only possible to be crafted in the workshop also limits you based on operator moral, not a big issue but if this is targeted towards newer players they likely don't have many operators to fill out their base to be dumping moral into much crafting.
5 Stars aren't nearly as useful as they used to be now that we have 6 stars that have powercrept the old 6 stars that many 5 stars were balanced around and 5 stars haven't really been given a chance to keep up. But again, with a newer player they likely don't have or don't have access to many 6 stars and are significantly more likely to have 5 stars that can, and I'd argue should, be used as stopgaps. For the most part the main stages can be cleared by full 4 star teams but expecting newer players to do that on their own (as in not watching a guide) is just asking, no begging, them to quit the game. If they don't have any, or any good, 6 stars and they see something like this telling them to NEVER level up a 5 star because they are NEVER worth it it's not healthy for their gameplay experience especially if it brick walls them. I'd rather a newer player spend a few extra resources on a decent 5 star than save up all their resources for a theoretical 6 star they may never get because they leave the game because they feel the game is too hard or too slow.
For Example:
Blue Poison may not be as powerful as she once was but anyone saying that it's a waste to invest in her doesn't understand what it's like to be without a powerful 6 star sniper or is forgetting that when people start a game without guides and such they see something like Kroos or Jessica and ignore them because they are only 3 & 4 stars.
Ptilopsis is a wonderful AoE medic with an SP regen trait. She's only 5 star but if you aren't running with a team that can just kill everything before it kills you she's super useful.
Texas is a great vanguard, yes others hold lanes better and myrtle exists but she's still very solid at the start of most stages, especially with her module (I feel it's fair to bring up modules since you are counting T5 Mats as only marginally harder to get than T4 mats). Guess what, Vanguards are meant to be good early in each stage and she fits that.
Amiya, obviously is a 5 star, and obviously needs to be leveled up for the story but is again, an excellent caster worthy of investment.
You mention her and effectively say she's a waste of resources, but Lappland is still extremely useful for many players. Again, I get that "silence is niche" but when it comes to silencing she's still one of the best to do it that's easily accessible. Any stage with self destructing enemies she stops that, stages with aerial targets that debuff OPs or buffs enemies and she can handle them. She also fills a roll as a ground unit that can hit air. She's no thorns or silver ash but she fits in in certain situations and is useful in them.
5 Stars absolutely need a buff, be it in cost reduction or with a module, but I despise the idea of never upgrading them because it's a bad investment. Because it's not. Even in the Main Theme they're good and in stuff like IS or certain challenge stages having a build E2+ 5 star can be invaluable. It honestly feels disingenuous to tell someone never to build any 5 stars other than the ones on Vosz's video saying it's intended for newer players while also handwaving some of the most important aspects, costs, and downsides to the entire upgrade process.
This video: "5star bad because 4x3=4 then 3x4=5"
Wow I didn't knew I could just combine 5 T1 mats to get a T5, I've been wasting so many T4 all these years... IN WHAT FUCKING WORLD IS A T5 MATS WORTH THE SAME AS A T3 + a T2???
In all seriouseness how about we try calculating the cost but we convert every T4 and T5 mats to the amount of T3 needed to craft them, because that's how most of us farm.
I wrote it: E2+M3(+module), I'm using Highmore S2 and Exec S3 as exemple for the calcul. I left T1 and 2 out of the equation because who tf run out of these/actively farm them...
Highmore = 49+74(+44) = 123(167) Tier3 mats
Exec Alter = 57+144(+100) = 201(301) Tier3 mats
Wich pretty much fit with the idea that 6star are more or less twice the cost of a 5star, wich also include LMD and EXP.
Also for module, remember that 6star require twice the amount of module datablock a 5star need as well, wich are a time-gated ressources.
TL;DR We can build BOTH Highmore and La Pluma using pretty much as much ressources we need to build Executor, it's not "a little more investment".
PS: that "points acording to material tier" gave me a stroke, and the fact that no on in the comment question the fact that a 5star would cost 90% of the cost of a 6star to E2M3 made me lose the little hope I still had in the EN community...
The whole calcul (although pretty messy, don't pay too much attention)
Highmore = 49+74(+44) = 123(167) Tier3 mats
E2 = 9 oriroc concentration + 13 T3= 36+13= 49
M3 (S2) = 74
4 pipolar nanoflakes= 4 optimized devices + 8WHK = 16+24 = 40
3 keton coll + 5 refined solvent = 9+15 = 24
3RMA + 2 T3 = 12+2 = 14
+Module = 44
lvl1: 3 manganese trihyd = 12
lvl2: 4 Polymerized gel = 12
lvl3: 5 optimized devices = 20
Exec Alter = 57+144(+100) = 201(301) Tier3 mats
E2 = 57
3 Nucleic Cristal = 3 tranmutated salt + 3 cutting fluid solution + 6 refined solvent = 9+9+18 = 36
+7 polymerized gel = 21
M3 (S3) = 144
6 Plymer prep + 6 incandecent alloy= 6 orriroc con+ 6 oriron block+ 6 keton colloid = 24+24+24+18 = 90
4 oriron block + 7 grindstone penta = 12+21 = 33
4 cutting stock solution + 8 T3 = 12+8 = 20
+Module = 100
lvl1: 2 bipolar nanoflake = 2 device + 4 WHK = 8+12 = 20
lvl2: 3 poly prep = 12+12+12 = 36
lvl3: 4 D32 = 16+12+16 = 44
Damn bro, did you try looking past that?
@@Z_04_Q You mean trying looking past the whole point of the video?
You're telling me that when you see someone telling you that 5star cost 90% of the mats a 6star need, your first reaction is not "where the fuck did that bullshit come from"?
Totally unhinged post but you're correct, the calculations in the video are sus AF.
I'm also surprised that you didn't mention the fact that they said La Pluma was niche because she has to kill enemies. You know since most of the stages in Arknights we don't kill enemies?!?!
This feels like a classic case of analysis with a bias towards the narrative.
Thank you. Finally someone that fact checked this entire "muh 5* are only sligthly cheaper than 6*" myth people parrot like crazy.
Good stuff, the difference in cost between a 4* and 6* really is something.
Lappland is a very poor example to use for a 5 star with a small niche. Sure, she might have a silence talent that's become increasingly irrelevant with time, but she still does 1.2k arts dps with S2, while also being multitarget, making her a very strong general laneholder when placed behind a defender.
I don't want to get into the misconceptions about La Pluma, so you'll only have to deal with me complaining about your use of an arbitrary point system when comparing the value of materials. There is, and has been for a long time, a farming spreadsheet that calculates not only the best stages to farm, but also the actual sanity value of any material given the available stages that can be farmed. Considering that it takes 3-4 t3 to make 1 t4 mat, and 3-4 t4 to make 1 t5 mat, the point scaling isn't even accurate in the same category, heavily inflating the apparent cost of 4 and 5* compared to 6*.
to top it all off this video was released at around same time as lappland module and she can now apply fragile to enemies
I would say that when the game was released, 5* were quite in the balance. They were pretty strong and some even competeted with their 6* counterparts such as ptilopsis, texas, specter and so on. But because of recent meta changes, 6* keep getting stronger and stronger, and 5* are just left in dust. Most of the 5* we get nowadays are very underwhelming. The most part of strong 5* is about 3 years old. Yeah, there are 5* that are pretty decent in comparison to weak 6* such as proviso vs angelina thing, but most of the recent 5* just suck at everything. And yes, you could say things such as Coldshot isn't bad, she is pretty useable and she does big damagebut there are just many more 6* that do better. Proviso does better than angelina s2, yet dont forget, there is suzuran that doesnt suffer low range and is way more useful because of the fragility she applies. There essentially is a 6* answer to almost every 5* in the game, that just does the job better. And honestly, out of all the 5* it really is just ptilopsis being viable right now. Ptilopsis is honestly an unfinished 6*. She doesnt just have a niche, she has a talent that consistently works everywhere. And her healing is not outclassed. She still does one of the highest hps total per second. So yes, if we forget about ptilopsis for a bit, the 5* scene is really lacking. Also I feel sick of talking about various 5* over and over again and essentially making the same argument so ill shut up
Why even use most 6* when Surtr, Texas Alt and Młynar exist ? Saying that 5* are bad because 6* are better make no sense.
As a F2P player, are you telling me to not invest in a Niche I might be having problems with (silence for the stupid fish) and just magically come across 6 stars with their materials?
My core team is 5 star based XD
Unless you are E2ing literally every operator you shouldn't have any shortage of materials, you get so many that the whole argument whether 5* are worth it or not ends up being completely pointless. I have so many operators leveled and skills M3'd that I decided to do on a whim and I'm still sitting on big a hoard of mats.
From my 1 years experience play arknight i build only boss killer 6 star op and most of my op are 4 star and little bit 5 star like Lappland, red, mulberry.
Myrtle easily my most used op.
My girl specter being a great 5 star
you've forgotten something very important here, sir. where exactly is my replacement for the best archetype in the game? you know, ARTS PROTECTORS. hmm, seems to me there isn't a 6 star yet? and let's see the four star represen... oh. oh no... it's Dur-nar! hm, now how am I gonna go about avoiding the five stars there... despite a... clear and distinct superiority in the three different examples provided at that rarity? ah, gee... look at me, a real know-nothin'... ramblin' on like this, guess I'll get outta your hair...
th-cam.com/video/5QjGktBP-aM/w-d-xo.html 3:25 😉
Ngl Durnar is already good enough. Like, what exactly do you need that much arts defence or arts damage when you can just face tank with overwhelming hp from other defenders or literally just bring a caster? Arts Protectors themselves are already niche enough, and the only way I can see someone build them is either the account is new or their nicheknights, literally any other defender can tank arts damage just fine.
Also if you're going to say Asbestos, Shalem and Czerny can provide dps, there are literally other operators to use, and defenders, unless they're like Eunectus or Penance archetype, don't need to focus on damage. Even if your account is a fresh one, I would recommend building other operators over Arts Protectors.
If you say the archetype has resistance, while other defenders have no resistance, bring a medic, as much as arts damage is far more dangerous that physical damage, early game account is tolerable, while mid to late game accounts would have ways to counter those situations where arts damage would overrun the defense.
Additionally, if we are just comparing Durnar to the other three. Shalem is rng as hell unless you give him the situation to focus burst on a single target (or you're using him in IS2), Czerny's aoe explosion damage requires being hit to increase the damage, and while he does receive taunt, it's still a very inconsistent and situational burst damage. Asbestos is basically the only good and consistent upgrade to Durnar, and still, she does basically the same thing Durnar does albeit with aoe damage, which in most cases is likely to be shot on the tile in front of her cause she's a defender.
With the rather small difference in stats (583 and 633 damage for Durnar and Asbestos respectively in max lvl, as well as only a 10% dmg increase difference at s2m3 between the two), it really is not worth building Asbestos cause Durnar is just cheaper. I am not saying the archetype is bad, there are worse, but it's just really niche. If you go to Integrated Strategies, you're more willing to spend your Hope on a cheaper 4 star or a more powerful 6 star than a 5 star who are expensive in hope but not as game changing as 6 stars.
@@HittingBandy counter-point- imma set you on fire with my mind
I mean, you either use Nightingale to invalidate Arts damage, or you use Amiya Guard because you're forced to E2 her if you want to do story and she has 60% Arts Dodge on skill and 20 RES, which means that on average she takes only 32% of the Arts damage coming her way (Asbestos has 25 RES, takes 30% less damage on skill, so he takes only 52.5%, Czerny has 25 RES, increased to 50 on skill, so he takes only 50%, Shalem has 15 RES)
(Also if you're using Arts Protector to deal Arts damage... use like, any decent Caster or Arts Guard, which could include Amiya, instead)
@@byeguyssry you can invalidate 90% of the game's roster with this chain of logic, or you can play into everyone's niches and find ways to more directly and pointedly deal with threats. Did you know Czerny's talent reflect can solo kill the chapter 9 flame throwers within one use of their sustained fire skill? You could kill them easier with yato alter or something like that, of course, but I'd have stopped playing a while ago, doing things like that
Ok it's a nice video with some valid arguments, but what in the f world is that reaper comparison, here might be some problems with it.
(1) You ignored the s1 because its "basic damage"
Well, for one executor is ammo base, and has a significant down time, and since la pluma got her aspd stakes, her damage out put will be much higher than the others (tho still lower then executor)
(2) In the s2 comparison you showed the dph numbers, and didn't showed the dps number (tho you did showed the order of their dps)... The problem with that is because dph isn't a great way to compare damage, it basically only comes out when you are trying to factor in def, (tho yes, being able to know how they do when faced with defence is important) So my question is, why don't you just show the average dps? Like
la pluma dps= [650+75(full trust)] * 1.7(skill) /(1.3*0.5)(attack interval) = 1896...
Humus dps=
[616+30(full trust)+35(max pod)] * 1.9(skill) / 1.3(attack interval) = 995...
Almost a 2 times difference, (and this is without considering la pluma's talent, so idk what you mean by "but this implies la pluma got her aspd stakes")
Chips and chip catalysts are main problem in my opinion
Resources at one point start to pile up when you got most of your main team biult and stop being much of a matter
But chips and catalysts are always a trouble
You need red certs for catalysts and the last stage gives you ~20 of them while costing 30 sanity and need 270-360 of them for a 5*-6*
And chips 36 sanity per stage 50% chance of getting one you need(thank hg we can transmute in 3:2 ratio)
And stages are not always open
And there are events that consume all sanity if you want to buy everything from the store and farm resources
I don't know what could be a potential improvement but i think it's too late to change
Maybe make catalysts cost less is at least something
But hg most likely will never do anything about it ,like the base which is still in beta
yay
You know if you are going to use math, can it at least be good math? every material in the game has an established sanity value, you don't need to invent your own point system based off, god knows what.
I will say if you do Integrated strategies 6 stars are easier to build than maybe even 4 stars. as it gives high end materials.
I would use my sanity for farming for 4 stars and my IS rewards to raise 6 stars. not exactly for math, but just because of the structure of IS rewards we could end up easily with 8 e2 six stars after which clearing content isn't going to be an issue and we can raise whatever we want.
Then you have 5 Stars like Texas. Who can out perform some 6 stars of the same subclass. And is only outclassed by ONE Six star unit. And Texas is F2P friendly thanks to pinboard missions.
Dp cost is another problem, since we have flagpipe, the small dp cost different doesnt justify the stat dif. If i am really tight on dp and need to deploy, 4 stars are way better
warfarin :
5 stars are simply too expensive to build for the performance they offer (with exceptions, of course)
no 5 stars in kyo guides 😢😢😢 guess they're not worth building
very good and informative video but kinda want to hear about Voz oppinion about 5 star more like discussion or his point of view and your point that would feels more like a colaboration for me but still a very good video, Keep up the good work!
At first we planned on making this more like a discussion.
But because both of us wanted to have a video in our style we decided to instead make videos with cameos. Maybe we will do a proper discussion in the future
Ehhhh, that scoring summary is fundamentally broken as higher tier materials are not equally weighted and should not be treated as such.
Can Anyone tell me the Arknights Operators site thats shown in the beginning of the video?
Thanks!
Arknights Toolbox:
aceship.github.io/AN-EN-Tags/akhrchars.html?opname=Vendela
Question: what is the niche of La Pluma again?
And how can she only rated so low in dmg/dps?
La Pluma is purely a dps unit, her dps might be lower but it usually means that she's better against higher defense.
Also her S2 making her attack really fast is good for enemies or mechanics that need you to hit them a lot to die/work
Here is your 300 sub
Using the Arknights Operator Planner, from absolutely no upgrades to E2 50, M3 for Skill 1 (her more common skill), and module Lv3, Highmore takes 14757 Sanity(on average) to farm using the Fast Farming Plan (16485 with the Value Farming Plan). 1800 of this Sanity is spent on farming LMD, 1440 on EXP, and 1410 on Red Certs, but you typically farm LMD and EXP from base and you rarely run out of red certs.
Removing these, the Sanity cost is reduced to 10107 (11907). There's also 420 on Skill Upgrade Books.
Comparatively, La Pluma takes 9303 (11457) Sanity to farm after removing LMD and EXP costs.
On average, 9705 Sanity for the two five stars
Meanwhile, Executor Alter takes 11679 (14961) Sanity to farm, increased to 16575 (19713) when including LMD and EXP
Humus takes 4998 (5835) Sanity, increased to 7410 (8211) when including LMD and EXP.
The 5 star operators take ~94% more Sanity than the 4 star, ~17% less than the 6 star
(I'd like to note that the quick but flawed maths in the vid paints the 5 stars as costing ~12% less than the 6 star, but only 49% more than the 4 star)
A fun comparison for me is how I started playing the game at the same time as an irl friend. The main difference between our accounts is how I have gotten a lot better luck with 6*. Mathematically I have gotten about 1 6* from recruiting every month (10/23 6* are recruited). I have double the 6*s of my irl friends 6* roster. With this my friend has had substituted all the 6* with 5* to be competitive with me.
An example of the difference is how I float around 2 mil Lmd, my friend barely broke past 1 mil a few days ago and is already below 1 mil again. It created an interesting difference of masteries and experimentation also.