Hello everyone, welcome to the fourth Dev Diary/Dev Stream Breakdown for Ways of War! Be sure to grab a drink, because today we're getting a sneak peek behind Age of Wonders 4's greatest rework yet: the Hero Overhaul. Thomas' novel begins at 1:49 with Part 2 starting off with Signature Skills at 44:43. Even though we don't know the exact details of the Tiger Patch yet, I'm honestly more excited for the free update than the DLC itself, so kudos to Triumph for all of their passion and hard work. The chill dev stream breakdown begins at 1:03:45, and I explain the reason I was mentioned at 1:05:25. Special thanks to Jordi for the shoutout and to whoever who pinged me in the Discord (sorry, I was sleeping and missed it), and of course thank you for watching!
1:07:51 Currently in the game, fortune is already +10% crit chance per stack (and have been so for quite some time) so it is not going to nerfed in the tiger patch (I am not sure when it was nerfed from the +15%)
After the DLC with Giants, could create something similar to Solium Infernum, or maybe wait till potential Chaos Themed Season. Idea is to pick favourite Demonic/Chaotic Rulers( they don't need to be from Solium Infernum) and place them all together, with only one Winner; if you ascended as one of them previously, let them keep those traits/transformations, could make for great enemies.
50:19 so, I don’t exactly remember what ancient of earth does, but if it just makes the hero big, then I can 90% say then no, it won’t make dragon lords big, they can’t get it, because if I understood the dragon lord part correctly, dragon lords lost access to the normal signature skills completely, just like sovereign And ancient of earth will be a signature skill now, so only mage kings and champions can get it
@@timecrystal5thapostleof125 that’s not how I understood it, but it also makes sense. Though I do feel like dragon lords get good abilities from elder dragon choice already, so it feels like an overkill if they can choose something like the undying thing on top of that
i do use alot ancient of the earth becuase it give a 30% dmg increase it does not say base just 30% increase plus 20 hp and makes you big which i do remember in another stream you would need to choose all metarium dragon skills to access it but who knows if just getting the elder of metarium would give it
1:19:52 No, that is not one AP, that is a full action, leave one AP. (like the phase ability) Which means that the short range (3) is a problem, but if you are in range you could use this and then also use the normal curse (or a single normal attack)
Could try to create Assassins, have hero weapons and 2 great Skirmisher Units to chose from. There might be "Legolas Build", somewhere in that Ranger Skill Tree
Given that you did not mention it, could you possibly have missed the "Tireless Retaliator" skill at the end of the end of the infantry side of the Defender tree?
Revitalize itself is probably not available, but the Ritualist's Restore (1AP Heal 10 Temp HP, Cleanse all Negative effects, and give +1 Regeneration) can be upgraded to a 1-hex radius, which makes it quite similar.
They will not be. Thomas mentioned that he wanted to add new Eastern Dragon body types but that it wasn't going to happen due to modular complications. There are two new unlocks for the Dragon Lords in the Pantheon tree: a head styled like the Blessed Dragon (T2 support unit) and the Prosperity Dragon's seal charms as a spine option.
so this will be the biggest change for the game, for good. how long is the critic out, that everthing plays the same? Since the start of the game...hm. I hope the dev learned form this.
Can't wait to try all Classes and their Specializations, need to try everything, so can find favourite. Also this th-cam.com/video/NL_R5ywEC6M/w-d-xo.html gave me character idea: Female Cyborg/Golem, armour from the bonus DLC, Warrior with Sword from Pantheon, or maybe Defender with a Polearm; so in the future, she could be Ruler's Right-hand Executioner/Bodyguard.
well well well, so they backtracked on the overly modular and added classes back....sigh not against AoW4 but class systems are used for reasons as streamlining abilities are easier to balance and open up new ideas better. 30 +years of rpgs have used classes for reasons.
While I agree with their goals, I’m not convinced this version is going to be better. Losing tome abilities, culture abilities… having mystic dragons be unable to be melee combatants… it all seems incredibly narrow and more same-y than before.
Most time abilities or culture abilities have been made passives or moved around. The herald of the cleansing flame is just given to you when you unlock the tome. I assume this applies to other unique abilities
mystic dragon still have claws as weapons atop of the dragon 4,8,12,16 skillset fro dragons ISN'T afiinity locked.....yes you can pick a chaos trait on a mystic dragon.
Skill rework and rebalancing = good Creating arbitrary limitations on heroes on rulers where they can’t use specific skills or weapons anymore = bad I don’t understand why they did this, it’s… I mean it’s great they updated skills and made new ones, seriously that’s great, but… why did they hem all heroes into specific subtypes now? Now I can’t make a mage who can give better leadership buffs Or a sword and board warrior who can summon Or a highly damage resistance healer I just don’t know why they’d reduce options for players
The previous iteration of Hero Skills seemed to be limitless, but it actually has a lot of hidden restrictions. By everyone have access to anything, certain traits that would be designed for one archetype could be easily exploitable by others. The example they gave was a +1 Retaliation passive being designed for Polearm and/or a tanky character, but that trait would be even stronger -- possibly too strong -- in the hands of a Shock weapon. While an exact example like this could be addressed, that looming thought restricted the development of all potential Hero Skills. Another hidden restriction was that active Hero Skills had to be useable by every and any weapon, which prevented them from adding archer-specific abilities and things like Shield Bash. Those are the two exact examples the developers gave, and I think it's pretty sound.
@@Fableheim Didn't even need the lance if you lucked out with demon step. Although it was even harsher with the lance as now they don't retaliate, unless they're using spears.
@@Fableheim having some skills be “easily exploitable” (specifically mentioning the retaliation thing) is such a big deal that they need to remove the entire premise of “freedom of choice” the rest of the game is built on? I just feel like that’s an overreach: they could have updated skills all the skills and made “new skill trees” but still not hemmed them in behind class structures - sure, you could still find some combinations that where strong but it doesn’t mean they had to be the way you went every time, as the whole point of choice is that you got options And the thing about “we don’t wanna add abilities that won’t work for some weapons”? Why the hell not? If you, the player, decide to give that hero an ability that only works with Bows or Crossbows then I guess you’ve made the choice for that hero to be a Bow or Crossbow user, right? I don’t understand the logic of putting on the guardrails that so tightly define what heroes can be now, the whole point of this game is that you can be whatever you want right? Why can I make a ranged heroes with a bunch of summoning buffs? Why can’t o make a sword and board character with a bunch of healing? My capacity to create “hero class fantasies” has been overwhelmingly reduced because of what they’ve done Tl;dr - they could have just as easily made new skills and buffed old skills and just let anyone choose them like before, not hemming us into specific “stereotypical” classes
@@C00kiesAplenty I am aware of the words they wrote on the page, but the logic does not track for me The purpose of this games design intent, regardless of how much time passes and how long it’s in the market, is freedom of choice: They stated as much in all the early developer commentary and in the pre-release announcements and interviews I purchased this game exactly because of that freedom of choice The fact that races can have any traits and cultures can have (almost) any society trait and you can select basically any Tome you want is THE WHOLE POINT Heroes were the same: I could build my class fantasy or a Paladin by selecting healing/leadership skills alongside close combat skills with a sword and board fighter - can you still do that? My class fantasy if a Pet Master/Ranger of having ranged bow options and summons was something I enjoyed - can you still do that? My class fantasy of a super tough front-line battlemage appoint damage and resistance/defence abilities with big chonky armor like Doctor Doom - can you still do that? NO, YOU CANNOT My concern is that they could have just as easily crafted a whole bunch of these new “skill trees” but just left them open to anyone? Sure, the Dragon Lords and Eldritch sovereigns are kinda freaks because they have their own thing going on by why restrict the heroes from using the freedom this game was made for?
They're not locked in to only fire or lightning damage types. Those are optional skills you can unlock and scale if you'd like, but you don't have to take them at all. The right side has Frost damage via Curse, and the middle is to improve your efficacy with your weapon.
Hello everyone, welcome to the fourth Dev Diary/Dev Stream Breakdown for Ways of War! Be sure to grab a drink, because today we're getting a sneak peek behind Age of Wonders 4's greatest rework yet: the Hero Overhaul. Thomas' novel begins at 1:49 with Part 2 starting off with Signature Skills at 44:43. Even though we don't know the exact details of the Tiger Patch yet, I'm honestly more excited for the free update than the DLC itself, so kudos to Triumph for all of their passion and hard work. The chill dev stream breakdown begins at 1:03:45, and I explain the reason I was mentioned at 1:05:25. Special thanks to Jordi for the shoutout and to whoever who pinged me in the Discord (sorry, I was sleeping and missed it), and of course thank you for watching!
The devs are clearly improving the game each and every iteration, which I am very pleased to see. A lot of good changes here.
Honestly, I was just relieved to see that Ancient of the Earth and Eternal One are still there 😅
I like the rework and the ideas behind it, this will make build hero more interesting... Suck losing customization but usually was a min max mess
Im ready for the scheming you'll get up to with all this content
Thank you for nice summary, I enjoyed it, it was helpful and entertaining!
Then I achieved all of my goals! Thanks for letting me know I was mentioned in the dev stream ahead of time. :P
@@Fableheim You were and I've noticed that and shouted everywhere, so I look forward to full review once the DLC will be released ;)
@@Fableheim Also the best previsou is a playthrough :)
1:07:51 Currently in the game, fortune is already +10% crit chance per stack (and have been so for quite some time) so it is not going to nerfed in the tiger patch (I am not sure when it was nerfed from the +15%)
Ahhh rip, that one must have slipped past me. Is Misfortune still 15% per stack or was that also dropped down to 10%? 🤔
@@Fableheim Misfortune is still 15% per stack.
After the DLC with Giants, could create something similar to Solium Infernum, or maybe wait till potential Chaos Themed Season.
Idea is to pick favourite Demonic/Chaotic Rulers( they don't need to be from Solium Infernum) and place them all together, with only one Winner; if you ascended as one of them previously, let them keep those traits/transformations, could make for great enemies.
8:29 warriors can use shields, but defenders get a lot more value out of them
There is no point to warriors using shields now.
@WRanger87 i mean shields will still give them some armour so they'll still have some use for them
They finally realized that the Dragon Lords were ridiculously weak, more fragile than mortals
i think that primal culture is going to be very strong in the game or be the best to play as this will change the meta
50:19 so, I don’t exactly remember what ancient of earth does, but if it just makes the hero big, then I can 90% say then no, it won’t make dragon lords big, they can’t get it, because if I understood the dragon lord part correctly, dragon lords lost access to the normal signature skills completely, just like sovereign
And ancient of earth will be a signature skill now, so only mage kings and champions can get it
@avrixel7488 dragons get the same skills as wk and champions, they just need to be an elder of materium for that
@@timecrystal5thapostleof125 that’s not how I understood it, but it also makes sense.
Though I do feel like dragon lords get good abilities from elder dragon choice already, so it feels like an overkill if they can choose something like the undying thing on top of that
i do use alot ancient of the earth becuase it give a 30% dmg increase it does not say base just 30% increase plus 20 hp and makes you big which i do remember in another stream you would need to choose all metarium dragon skills to access it but who knows if just getting the elder of metarium would give it
I was waiting for this video to come out 🎉
1:19:52 No, that is not one AP, that is a full action, leave one AP. (like the phase ability)
Which means that the short range (3) is a problem, but if you are in range you could use this and then also use the normal curse (or a single normal attack)
Ahh, I wasn't certain, thanks for clearing that up!
Could try to create Assassins, have hero weapons and 2 great Skirmisher Units to chose from.
There might be "Legolas Build", somewhere in that Ranger Skill Tree
I want to make feudal mega-governors with the rework. Probably with a Champion, or a Dragon Lord with Ancient Governor.
I believe that Ancient Governor was removed. 😥
your vids are always awesome
44:42 Huh. Some of the sentences were really running a marathon to reach the dot.
Could experiment with Displacement, couple of battles and then could respec, if it's terrible.
Well, worst case scenario it would certainly be meme-able. XD
So excited for the update! Cant wait 😊
Given that you did not mention it, could you possibly have missed the "Tireless Retaliator" skill at the end of the end of the infantry side of the Defender tree?
If it wasn't in a screenshot, I definitely missed it! I remember seeing the +1 Retaliation talent but not the Tireless one.
I still want to know if the Tome of Fertility's "Revitalization" hero skill is still in the game.
Revitalize itself is probably not available, but the Ritualist's Restore (1AP Heal 10 Temp HP, Cleanse all Negative effects, and give +1 Regeneration) can be upgraded to a 1-hex radius, which makes it quite similar.
@@Fableheim Thanks for the answer. That's disappointing because I loved that spell. But, it's nice to know there is a similar alternative.
Hey Fable. Did you perhaps catch any info if new duo dragons will be a cosmetic option for dragon lord? I can't find that information anywhere
They will not be. Thomas mentioned that he wanted to add new Eastern Dragon body types but that it wasn't going to happen due to modular complications. There are two new unlocks for the Dragon Lords in the Pantheon tree: a head styled like the Blessed Dragon (T2 support unit) and the Prosperity Dragon's seal charms as a spine option.
@@Fableheim Ohhh that's sad. Thanks for the clarification. ;)
so this will be the biggest change for the game, for good. how long is the critic out, that everthing plays the same? Since the start of the game...hm. I hope the dev learned form this.
Can't wait to try all Classes and their Specializations, need to try everything, so can find favourite.
Also this th-cam.com/video/NL_R5ywEC6M/w-d-xo.html gave me character idea: Female Cyborg/Golem, armour from the bonus DLC, Warrior with Sword from Pantheon, or maybe Defender with a Polearm; so in the future, she could be Ruler's Right-hand Executioner/Bodyguard.
well well well, so they backtracked on the overly modular and added classes back....sigh not against AoW4 but class systems are used for reasons as streamlining abilities are easier to balance and open up new ideas better. 30 +years of rpgs have used classes for reasons.
While I agree with their goals, I’m not convinced this version is going to be better. Losing tome abilities, culture abilities… having mystic dragons be unable to be melee combatants… it all seems incredibly narrow and more same-y than before.
Most time abilities or culture abilities have been made passives or moved around. The herald of the cleansing flame is just given to you when you unlock the tome. I assume this applies to other unique abilities
mystic dragon still have claws as weapons atop of the dragon 4,8,12,16 skillset fro dragons ISN'T afiinity locked.....yes you can pick a chaos trait on a mystic dragon.
Skill rework and rebalancing = good
Creating arbitrary limitations on heroes on rulers where they can’t use specific skills or weapons anymore = bad
I don’t understand why they did this, it’s… I mean it’s great they updated skills and made new ones, seriously that’s great, but… why did they hem all heroes into specific subtypes now?
Now I can’t make a mage who can give better leadership buffs
Or a sword and board warrior who can summon
Or a highly damage resistance healer
I just don’t know why they’d reduce options for players
They clearly and thoroughly explained exactly why they did this
The previous iteration of Hero Skills seemed to be limitless, but it actually has a lot of hidden restrictions.
By everyone have access to anything, certain traits that would be designed for one archetype could be easily exploitable by others. The example they gave was a +1 Retaliation passive being designed for Polearm and/or a tanky character, but that trait would be even stronger -- possibly too strong -- in the hands of a Shock weapon. While an exact example like this could be addressed, that looming thought restricted the development of all potential Hero Skills.
Another hidden restriction was that active Hero Skills had to be useable by every and any weapon, which prevented them from adding archer-specific abilities and things like Shield Bash.
Those are the two exact examples the developers gave, and I think it's pretty sound.
@@Fableheim Didn't even need the lance if you lucked out with demon step. Although it was even harsher with the lance as now they don't retaliate, unless they're using spears.
@@Fableheim having some skills be “easily exploitable” (specifically mentioning the retaliation thing) is such a big deal that they need to remove the entire premise of “freedom of choice” the rest of the game is built on?
I just feel like that’s an overreach: they could have updated skills all the skills and made “new skill trees” but still not hemmed them in behind class structures - sure, you could still find some combinations that where strong but it doesn’t mean they had to be the way you went every time, as the whole point of choice is that you got options
And the thing about “we don’t wanna add abilities that won’t work for some weapons”? Why the hell not? If you, the player, decide to give that hero an ability that only works with Bows or Crossbows then I guess you’ve made the choice for that hero to be a Bow or Crossbow user, right?
I don’t understand the logic of putting on the guardrails that so tightly define what heroes can be now, the whole point of this game is that you can be whatever you want right?
Why can I make a ranged heroes with a bunch of summoning buffs? Why can’t o make a sword and board character with a bunch of healing? My capacity to create “hero class fantasies” has been overwhelmingly reduced because of what they’ve done
Tl;dr - they could have just as easily made new skills and buffed old skills and just let anyone choose them like before, not hemming us into specific “stereotypical” classes
@@C00kiesAplenty I am aware of the words they wrote on the page, but the logic does not track for me
The purpose of this games design intent, regardless of how much time passes and how long it’s in the market, is freedom of choice:
They stated as much in all the early developer commentary and in the pre-release announcements and interviews
I purchased this game exactly because of that freedom of choice
The fact that races can have any traits and cultures can have (almost) any society trait and you can select basically any Tome you want is THE WHOLE POINT
Heroes were the same: I could build my class fantasy or a Paladin by selecting healing/leadership skills alongside close combat skills with a sword and board fighter - can you still do that?
My class fantasy if a Pet Master/Ranger of having ranged bow options and summons was something I enjoyed - can you still do that?
My class fantasy of a super tough front-line battlemage appoint damage and resistance/defence abilities with big chonky armor like Doctor Doom - can you still do that?
NO, YOU CANNOT
My concern is that they could have just as easily crafted a whole bunch of these new “skill trees” but just left them open to anyone?
Sure, the Dragon Lords and Eldritch sovereigns are kinda freaks because they have their own thing going on by why restrict the heroes from using the freedom this game was made for?
Why are mages locked into only fire or lightning as damage types? This all seems incredibly half-baked
They're not though?
Frost damage is on the warlock side of the mage tree
They're not locked in to only fire or lightning damage types. Those are optional skills you can unlock and scale if you'd like, but you don't have to take them at all. The right side has Frost damage via Curse, and the middle is to improve your efficacy with your weapon.
@@Fableheim those are the two AOE damage skills they have.