It is so fascinating to see proper fighting etiquette used with a flail. All of the motions are fluid in order to keep the momentum going, it wraps around his opponents buckler, arms and sword, all the while the flail heads are still hitting him. Flails are very nasty and when used with proper technique it can be a nearly impossible weapon to get around and take down
@@MichaelGittel Agreed. The movement could never be so fluid with real weight. Also the handle has to be longer than the length of the chain and the weight - otherwise you risk hurting yourself before you do smash anything else. So even if that should not resemble a two-handed-flail, which was usually longer and shortchained in comparison to later onehanded versions, the length of the chain is still out of proportion.
@@yosoy1loco Don't know the real weight, but it would absolutely possible to get this kind of flow going. But you are right, the fight would look different. Is it better than a sword- not really but has some interesting moves. But also, please realize that we have very little skill with the flail and it easily keeps up with the sword (in which we are much better trained)
I know flail and maxed are different weapons but what's the key differences in how they are supposed to be used? And how do majority of the flail users do it wrong?
The flail looks way more useful than I would have thought. A few times it looks like had he been more aggressive he could have yanked the sword out of his hand. I'm surprised.
It is a very interesting weapon. Difficult to parry its attacks and you can entangle the opponents blade- however, it does not seem to be enough traction to really yank it...but we are no experts
@@egfhema6177 might be a cool companion video to talk about the real world usage of the weapon in history. Then talk about your experiences with using it, strengths and weaknesses and why you could see it get whatever use it did etc.
@@egfhema6177 I can imagine its being telegraphed a lot is balanced out by being hard to parry even if you see the ball coming, best you could do in a duel is try to follow the ball with a shield and close in as much as possible while watching your head.
Wow a flail looks devastating. Even in full plate armor, getting smacked a few times on your helmet by a flail seems awful. If I had to fight an opponent with one, I'd like a longer sword and a bigger shield instead of a buckler.
It is worthy to note, the reason why the swordsman is so aggressive. Is because there is zero punishment, no pain, no injuries. Had this been raw brutal combat. The swordsman would be far more cautious.
Only thing I'll say about sparring with a flail is that it seems like it would be difficult to tell what strikes would be effective. I would figure that a successful hit would have to be nothing short of hammering your opponent. Seems a little tough/risky to do in a friendly sparring match. Other than that great fight
Upon watching this I think it's part of the difficulty in proficiently using a flail in HEMA. A blunted sword swung relatively heavily is going to hurt a lot less than a flail with protection, with flails being an impact weapon. If anything, someone using a flail in HEMA might have to hold back due to risk of actual injury.
What's also quite interesting in this video, is the Flail wielder being left-handed. How different would this fight be if much of the contact wasn't buckler to buckler, or the swordsman had to cross their arms over in order to parry the flail? Could the sword have been more aggressive with the weapon grips swapped?
Possibly- but one thing we learned is to adjust the parry with the shield and the weapon to the “reach around “ of the flail. Can be done but needs practice...
dang I had no idea how effective the flail was that is terrifying, Seems damn near impossible to completly block since it just wraps around your defense and either tangles you up or hits you any ways. Bad ass as hell.
You are basically right, the only way to do this with our level of protection is to lighten the weapon...ales it less realistic but at least we survive the fights ;)
Blunt weapons were not heavy at all. You don't need to make a weapon heavy to turn it into a bludgeon. The physics of a flail makes it so that even an average weighed head will make it lethal. I'd rather weighten the handle so I can throw the heads harder.
Have you considered the shock impact a mace gives you when you hit something, compared to a flail? It 's exactly the other way around. What makes blunt weapons tiresome is not their weight but the shock impact every time you hit something, which is partially negated just by the design of the flail. Besides that, fighting with any type of weapons is tiresome if you put all your effort into it, but the shock impact is what will affect you the most. Just try it for yourself if you don't believe me.
I can kind of see why flails weren't used as much in standard military battles, would be likely to kill people on your own side as the enemy's, however aside from that, it is quite effective
It has definitely weaknesses that I would not Like to have in a battle- but a nice speciality weapon. One handed, it may have been largely a weapon for horseback?
Yeah it's not exactly a weildly and precise weapon like a sword or a halberd might be but in a skirmishing role it might have its merits certainly as blunt weapons heavy weapons where much better suited for fucking crumpling the opponents armour or helmet
@@egfhema6177 I think the flail, specifically a large one was used as one of the war waggon weapons of choice quite often. individuals are depicted using them in artwork etc. But we know for sure that they were effective on wagons, so a type of mounted cavaly weapon of sorts you could say. The flail has the advantage of not needing a linear line of sight to hit the enemy. So any attempts to climb the war wagon from the outside would be easily defended by the flail and man catcher. So the War wagon was the jack of all trades war machine of it's day. It has something for every type of situation. So that pesky guy dodging all of the direct spear thrusts could get thwacked on the back of the head from a guy who is safely behind the walls of the wagon. Like hitting over a huge shield.
I think there is a conspiracy that people trash the flail and make is illegal to carry because it's broken af. When it comes to sport combat it's obviously hard to block in this video.
Left handed flail user threw the sword guy off..looks like a sword can parry a flail but if he fails to parry the flail whips him in the back half the time
excellent video. I'm just going to throw this out there. you obviously have more training than me. From every painting and treatise picture I have seen the one handed flail/morning star seems to be used by mounted horsemen....where an even greater arc can be reached by swinging from a stirrup stance and not worry about hitting the ground....making the blow more lethal. So I wonder if it was more a horsemans weapon? If you watch the movie War Lord with Charlton Heston, and even the 1950s Ivanhoe...you can get a better idea as to what I am referring to. Again just a thought.....not looking to get reemed on here.
I think you may be right- did not research this very much. But it definitely works on foot...horseback may reduce its only weakness though- lack of ability to parry.
And another of my theories (Again I am NO expert) is that it might be more of a one and done weapon....or at least one not meant to be used long. You charge In on horse swinging it....1) Fearsome Looking 2) Full Momentum 3) large swathe it can bang through......but second you engage you either get a good bash or two in before close combat reduces swing momentum, or use it to enwrap enemies weapon (if long enough) or even throw it with great force from the huge arched swing (probably underhand) hopefully making people duck and cover or ruin someones day by being hit by it. Then you resort to a more appropriate close quarter mely weapon (sword, axe, mace, pick, hammer etc). As mentioned its not that common to see, even in paintings, but its there. But you never ever read about a knight talking about his cherished flail as they do their swords and sometimes Axe or other weapons. Also it might cost a lot to buy from a weapons maker today, but back then it must have been relatively cheap for a blacksmith to make.....stick, chain, and weight....plain, studded, or spiked. And it is intimidating as hell.
We like to mix it up and the matches don’t have to be “fair”. It’s often personal choice what weapon is used. Also, in a “real” fight you would not get to choose your opponents weapon either- you just make it work...but you are right, a longer blade could have helped :)
In my experience a cross guard makes gets wrapped and bound up by the flail and disarmed much more likely. This particular flail seems too long for that though. Shorter flails are faster and have more energy.
The swordsman would be faster to recover from a slice or stab of his opponent. I can imagine if the flail had some large spikes, it might take a little effort to rip the impaled head out of the opponent. Still, I think I'd rather have a minor clean cut or stab from a sword that a spiked ball into the side of my head or rib cage?
This seems like an awkwardly long example of a 1handed flail. My brother uses a shorter one. It's much faster with a sharper, tighter arch. Very effective up close on the inside. He can just wave his wrist and it speeds unbelievably quick all the way smack hard to the other side of your head and around your guard. Still effective on the outside because it's so good at binding and it flies faster in a straighter line.
For whom ever was the flail weilder I recomend not spinning as much sp that its os less read bit instead using more movements you would with a one handed sword.
I barely understand what you typed there but I think I got what you're trying to say. No. It has to keep spinning. Flail is a kind of weapon that relies on momentum so it has to keep moving/spinning for it to be truly ready to strike.
@@juandelata I have used one for sparring and I can say you dont need to be as reliant on the momentum as you think you do you. Its honestly like a sword of you miss a strike and wanna keep the momentum going you can but it's not as key as it seems spinning it just tires you out more
@@daledotson4336 the whole point of keeping it spinning is for 1 mains things 1. Zone control, keep it spinning to make lunging forward a hazard and the area between you dangerous 2. Unpredictability, due to the nature of the weapon you really telegraph your attacks because you don't have fine control over it so by keeping it spinning and changing up have you spin it you make it far harder to predict when a attack is happening
I have finished watching this video completely. (我看完這部影片了) I am a Taiwanese who cares about the global affairs. (我是一個關心全球事務的台灣人) And, sadly, most of my fellow Taiwanese don't really care about the world. (但是，很不幸地，我大部分的台灣同胞不那麼在意世界。) Hopefully Taiwan can become increasingly globally-aware and globally-competitive. (希望台灣可以越來越有全球意識與全球競爭力。) God bless Taiwan. (天佑台灣。)
It is so fascinating to see proper fighting etiquette used with a flail. All of the motions are fluid in order to keep the momentum going, it wraps around his opponents buckler, arms and sword, all the while the flail heads are still hitting him. Flails are very nasty and when used with proper technique it can be a nearly impossible weapon to get around and take down
The movement is fluid because he has no weight on the chains. For a medieval onehand flail, the chains are much too long!
@@MichaelGittel Agreed. The movement could never be so fluid with real weight. Also the handle has to be longer than the length of the chain and the weight - otherwise you risk hurting yourself before you do smash anything else. So even if that should not resemble a two-handed-flail, which was usually longer and shortchained in comparison to later onehanded versions, the length of the chain is still out of proportion.
As cool as it is, I still see no great practical benefit to the flail as opposed to other weapons.
@@yosoy1loco Don't know the real weight, but it would absolutely possible to get this kind of flow going. But you are right, the fight would look different. Is it better than a sword- not really but has some interesting moves. But also, please realize that we have very little skill with the flail and it easily keeps up with the sword (in which we are much better trained)
@Logical Musicman very likely, but always remember that it looks very different when you are in front of your opponent...
Someone using a flail as a flail, instead of as a mace?! Subscribed
I know flail and maxed are different weapons but what's the key differences in how they are supposed to be used? And how do majority of the flail users do it wrong?
Was curious so would like to know.
The flail looks way more useful than I would have thought. A few times it looks like had he been more aggressive he could have yanked the sword out of his hand. I'm surprised.
It is a very interesting weapon. Difficult to parry its attacks and you can entangle the opponents blade- however, it does not seem to be enough traction to really yank it...but we are no experts
@@egfhema6177 might be a cool companion video to talk about the real world usage of the weapon in history. Then talk about your experiences with using it, strengths and weaknesses and why you could see it get whatever use it did etc.
@@egfhema6177 I can imagine its being telegraphed a lot is balanced out by being hard to parry even if you see the ball coming, best you could do in a duel is try to follow the ball with a shield and close in as much as possible while watching your head.
Need a heavier flail to yank em
RAH RAH RAH
Man of culture right here.
RAH
RAH
I feel like a well made flail in the right hands could be beyond lethal.
they were still useless in the battlefield though
@@anxiousweeb8753 were you there
@@butisit7816 no, but I have common sense
But do you
@@butisit7816 ummm yeah
-Conquerer wants to know your location-
Hahahaha
Wow a flail looks devastating. Even in full plate armor, getting smacked a few times on your helmet by a flail seems awful. If I had to fight an opponent with one, I'd like a longer sword and a bigger shield instead of a buckler.
seems that way :) a bigger shield and longer sword would definitely help. if you are from SF come by! we are in Sonoma county
Why is almost everyone using one handed flails? The nasty ones were two handed ones used by angry peasants who actually were pretty skilled with them.
Good point - not sure if it is easy to make one that could be used safely...must be a mean weapon
those were just grain flails , meant to use them on grain
the hussite flails are just reinforced grain flails that are better
1:00 this block is so admirable
guy with flail hit the guy with sword on the back of the head quite a lot :0
Good gosh can you imagine if that s*** was real (●__●)
It's like a nunchucks on steroids.
It is worthy to note, the reason why the swordsman is so aggressive. Is because there is zero punishment, no pain, no injuries. Had this been raw brutal combat. The swordsman would be far more cautious.
Swordman: i think i should more defense or... uhh crap i dont know... Unwanted ATTACK!!!
Flailman: Haha Flail makes a *Boop* and *Boop*
Only thing I'll say about sparring with a flail is that it seems like it would be difficult to tell what strikes would be effective. I would figure that a successful hit would have to be nothing short of hammering your opponent. Seems a little tough/risky to do in a friendly sparring match. Other than that great fight
Upon watching this I think it's part of the difficulty in proficiently using a flail in HEMA. A blunted sword swung relatively heavily is going to hurt a lot less than a flail with protection, with flails being an impact weapon. If anything, someone using a flail in HEMA might have to hold back due to risk of actual injury.
Conqueror vs Centurion in nutshell
What's also quite interesting in this video, is the Flail wielder being left-handed.
How different would this fight be if much of the contact wasn't buckler to buckler, or the swordsman had to cross their arms over in order to parry the flail?
Could the sword have been more aggressive with the weapon grips swapped?
Possibly- but one thing we learned is to adjust the parry with the shield and the weapon to the “reach around “ of the flail. Can be done but needs practice...
@@egfhema6177 still need some help with your scene?
dang I had no idea how effective the flail was that is terrifying, Seems damn near impossible to completly block since it just wraps around your defense and either tangles you up or hits you any ways. Bad ass as hell.
The flail killed this man within the first 10 seconds.
Damn,i was about to talk shit about the flail but that thing is definitely hurting his opponent's wrists and neck while blocking
Interesting, I was under the impression that bludgeoning weapons tended to be too dangerous for sparring.
A light plastic chain with either a ball of tape or a dog toy on the end, flails are a bit of an exception to that rule since they're not rigid.
You are basically right, the only way to do this with our level of protection is to lighten the weapon...ales it less realistic but at least we survive the fights ;)
its a wooden handle with something moderately heavy attached with cheap plastic chains. its more safe than that pointed plastic sword
Flail is OP need a nerf ASAP
His technique is very good but a real one handed flail would be quite tiring after a few swings of it
Why? A mace is heavier.
A lot lighter than a sword
Blunt weapons were not heavy at all. You don't need to make a weapon heavy to turn it into a bludgeon. The physics of a flail makes it so that even an average weighed head will make it lethal. I'd rather weighten the handle so I can throw the heads harder.
Have you considered the shock impact a mace gives you when you hit something, compared to a flail? It 's exactly the other way around. What makes blunt weapons tiresome is not their weight but the shock impact every time you hit something, which is partially negated just by the design of the flail. Besides that, fighting with any type of weapons is tiresome if you put all your effort into it, but the shock impact is what will affect you the most. Just try it for yourself if you don't believe me.
I can kind of see why flails weren't used as much in standard military battles, would be likely to kill people on your own side as the enemy's, however aside from that, it is quite effective
It has definitely weaknesses that I would not Like to have in a battle- but a nice speciality weapon. One handed, it may have been largely a weapon for horseback?
Yeah it's not exactly a weildly and precise weapon like a sword or a halberd might be but in a skirmishing role it might have its merits certainly as blunt weapons heavy weapons where much better suited for fucking crumpling the opponents armour or helmet
@@egfhema6177 I think the flail, specifically a large one was used as one of the war waggon weapons of choice quite often. individuals are depicted using them in artwork etc. But we know for sure that they were effective on wagons, so a type of mounted cavaly weapon of sorts you could say. The flail has the advantage of not needing a linear line of sight to hit the enemy. So any attempts to climb the war wagon from the outside would be easily defended by the flail and man catcher. So the War wagon was the jack of all trades war machine of it's day. It has something for every type of situation. So that pesky guy dodging all of the direct spear thrusts could get thwacked on the back of the head from a guy who is safely behind the walls of the wagon. Like hitting over a huge shield.
I think there is a conspiracy that people trash the flail and make is illegal to carry because it's broken af. When it comes to sport combat it's obviously hard to block in this video.
it has some weaknesses but seems pretty powerful. especially considering that we don't have much skill with it...
Mace > flail every time.
I see you are a man of culture
So are training flails likea think? I'd love to learn how to use one, but don't wanna give myself brain damage
Left handed flail user threw the sword guy off..looks like a sword can parry a flail but if he fails to parry the flail whips him in the back half the time
Yeet the shield and two hand the flail,then just hit as Hard as you can, it Will go trough
excellent video. I'm just going to throw this out there. you obviously have more training than me. From every painting and treatise picture I have seen the one handed flail/morning star seems to be used by mounted horsemen....where an even greater arc can be reached by swinging from a stirrup stance and not worry about hitting the ground....making the blow more lethal. So I wonder if it was more a horsemans weapon? If you watch the movie War Lord with Charlton Heston, and even the 1950s Ivanhoe...you can get a better idea as to what I am referring to. Again just a thought.....not looking to get reemed on here.
I think you may be right- did not research this very much. But it definitely works on foot...horseback may reduce its only weakness though- lack of ability to parry.
And another of my theories (Again I am NO expert) is that it might be more of a one and done weapon....or at least one not meant to be used long. You charge In on horse swinging it....1) Fearsome Looking 2) Full Momentum 3) large swathe it can bang through......but second you engage you either get a good bash or two in before close combat reduces swing momentum, or use it to enwrap enemies weapon (if long enough) or even throw it with great force from the huge arched swing (probably underhand) hopefully making people duck and cover or ruin someones day by being hit by it. Then you resort to a more appropriate close quarter mely weapon (sword, axe, mace, pick, hammer etc). As mentioned its not that common to see, even in paintings, but its there. But you never ever read about a knight talking about his cherished flail as they do their swords and sometimes Axe or other weapons. Also it might cost a lot to buy from a weapons maker today, but back then it must have been relatively cheap for a blacksmith to make.....stick, chain, and weight....plain, studded, or spiked. And it is intimidating as hell.
@@NJtuber88 it definitely needs a shield and a short sword as back up would be really useful, especially if the fight gets closer to grappling...
seriously, why did they give him a gladius instead of an arming sword?
We like to mix it up and the matches don’t have to be “fair”. It’s often personal choice what weapon is used. Also, in a “real” fight you would not get to choose your opponents weapon either- you just make it work...but you are right, a longer blade could have helped :)
@@egfhema6177 Ok, fair enough
You don't have to get so salty just beacuse you're an arming sword fan boy
In my experience a cross guard makes gets wrapped and bound up by the flail and disarmed much more likely.
This particular flail seems too long for that though. Shorter flails are faster and have more energy.
That flail looks frightening. Just watching... I'd want the flail if I was up next.
The swordsman would be faster to recover from a slice or stab of his opponent. I can imagine if the flail had some large spikes, it might take a little effort to rip the impaled head out of the opponent. Still, I think I'd rather have a minor clean cut or stab from a sword that a spiked ball into the side of my head or rib cage?
The sword fighter is always keeping distance. Which against a weapon like a flail is not great. Get in close where your opponent is at a disadvantage.
This seems like an awkwardly long example of a 1handed flail. My brother uses a shorter one. It's much faster with a sharper, tighter arch. Very effective up close on the inside. He can just wave his wrist and it speeds unbelievably quick all the way smack hard to the other side of your head and around your guard.
Still effective on the outside because it's so good at binding and it flies faster in a straighter line.
i always thought of these as kind of silly and useless but that looks hard to deal with
A real flail would be heavier
yes it would - we experimented with heavier "heads" but they quickly hit too hard for our level of protection...
@@egfhema6177 perhaps you could make the tip of the handle be heavier since flail users typically hold near the opposite end of the shaft?
Obviously, and also illegal, because it would probably an instant kill if it hits the right spot :D
For whom ever was the flail weilder I recomend not spinning as much sp that its os less read bit instead using more movements you would with a one handed sword.
I barely understand what you typed there but I think I got what you're trying to say. No. It has to keep spinning. Flail is a kind of weapon that relies on momentum so it has to keep moving/spinning for it to be truly ready to strike.
@@juandelata I have used one for sparring and I can say you dont need to be as reliant on the momentum as you think you do you. Its honestly like a sword of you miss a strike and wanna keep the momentum going you can but it's not as key as it seems spinning it just tires you out more
and that's exactly why it's not really a weapon for everyone.
@@daledotson4336 the whole point of keeping it spinning is for 1 mains things
1. Zone control, keep it spinning to make lunging forward a hazard and the area between you dangerous
2. Unpredictability, due to the nature of the weapon you really telegraph your attacks because you don't have fine control over it so by keeping it spinning and changing up have you spin it you make it far harder to predict when a attack is happening
Ehh I hit you with my level 25 plastic flail mehh you can't block it imma tell my mommy!! Swing swing comes onnnn!! You're not dying!!!! MOMMMMM!!!!!
I have finished watching this video completely.
(我看完這部影片了)
I am a Taiwanese who cares about the global affairs.
(我是一個關心全球事務的台灣人)
And, sadly, most of my fellow Taiwanese don't really care about the world.
(但是，很不幸地，我大部分的台灣同胞不那麼在意世界。)
Hopefully Taiwan can become increasingly globally-aware and globally-competitive.
(希望台灣可以越來越有全球意識與全球競爭力。)
God bless Taiwan.
(天佑台灣。)
The flail really was a one on one kind of weapon, it requires space for you to wind up so using it in a packed space made it useless unlike the sword.
Very very poor buckler use on both guys
Yea cmon m8
They did have their bucklers too close and too far away to properly utilise them, they sort of acted more as an armored hand instead.
Interesting but I wonder how much having a ball will with weight at the end of the chain would affect the movement