The only person who messed it all up was Newland. May gave him a chance to leave their relationship before their wedding, and he still married her. Sorry, dude
No kidding!! As if getting pregnant in the context of marriage is breaking the law! The only one who trapped anyone was him trapping everyone around him in his web of indecisiveness, selfishness and lies!
Most didn't understand or they completely glossed over May's character in this film. Demure and unassuming... She was smart, cunning, and knew very well what Archer was up to. May had a strategy and executed it masterfully !
@@miriamponlatetera4611 In those days divorce was unheard of...A Tabu! Countless wives stayed in loveless marriages. In some parts of the world this still goes on...even to this day! And keep in mind, this is a period piece film... Status, Wealth, & Position in Society ruled the day...Archer understood this! That is why even when May gave him an out, he still chose to marry her.
May was in fact intelligent and wise enough to see and accept how the world was for women at that time. She knew the 'score' for women of her era and class and good for her for saving her husband from his lunacy. Second, how would any of us react? Back then even May's fortune went to her husband's bank account. It wasn't just May, it was her mother who moved in and was dependent on Archer's protection as he was the man of the house.
@@dianecrow6068I don't think anything will really ever change for women. Over 70% of women who end up divorced end up living under the poverty level for the rest of their lives unless they re-marry. (The chances of the second marriage working out is half that of the first.) The reason for this is that women get pregnant (which limits our employment options), and (naturally) women choose to stay with their children. This takes years of work experience away from them that they can never get back. Women are also less assertive and commanding than men. We are more agreeable and warm. This is excellent to nurture children, but it doesn't lead to job promotion. The only thing women can ever do is either become a man in the patriarchal system or play the wife in the game and just ask for the rules to be more fair, which is to ask men not to act like the dirt bag in this film. Men need to love, understand, protect, and nurture their wives. I feel like that's a short order compared to the crap we have to put up with being domineered over, and constantly having our livlihood at stake just because we want to love, protect and teach our children. I have more statistics to talk about, but this is long enough.
My favorite movie! The way they circled the wagons.....Newland didn't know what hit him until it was too late. May wasn't as dense as he thought. Brilliant use of power on display. Loved the book and the movie is a masterpiece to me.
Yeah, I think May would have been socially ruined by a divorce especially under those circumstances..And at her age it would have been a total waste. It was so selfish of him, after he had married her.
@@d2d2d3d3very selfish indeed considering he rushed all the way down to Florida where they were summering to convince May to convince Grannie Mingott to speed up the engagement/engagement announcement.
Not pity for him at all. He tried to play May and lost. She gave him an out earlier when she asked if perhaps he loved somone else and wanted to end things. He would have looked bad in society at that point and didn't want to do that so he continued with the engagement. He styed in the engagement then wants to cry about it later. If he had left May as a married women she would lost her good name in society as well as him and why should she have to deal with that after she did give him an out HE CHOSE not to take. In the end his reputation was really more important to him then being with Ellen. May is the real victim since she was chained for life to a guy she knows doesn't really love her but has some fantasy about a women he had an emotional fling with that she has to forever be compared with in his mind for the rest of their life together. Not to mention he doesn't give her intellect enough credit. She saw through him it's only his son that enlightens that to him as the end. So in my opinion May is just doing what she has to do for self preservation of her name and charactor which was all to a woman those days.
@@RtB68 I have no use for people who use others and think only of their own misery. He had his chance to do right and leave the relationship before marriage. He used her sexually and wants to run off and leave her disgraced. Nope not feeling for such selfishness.
She didn't turn to look at him. Like in the lighthouse....💔. Impressive and perfect movie. My favorite from Scorsese. And possibly one of the best period films ever made.
In some ways I respect May Wellington but in many ways not. She was a victom of the times and societal norms. She wasn't as stupid or helpless as people thought. She could her way and manipulate with the best. I'm not saying Newland Archer was innocent either. He had a chance to say no to marrying May but didn't. I will give him credit for doing the right thing by being a loyal husband, provider, and father to his children. Even in the end when in Paris after she died he stayed loyal to her and his traditions. I give May credit for knowing about Newland and Ellen but keeping it to herself and being respectful. I really liked the part when Newland and his son were in Paris and were going to visit Ellen. He told her May had talked to him separately before she died and told him her children would always be safe with their father. The one time she asked him to give up the thing he loved(Ellen) he did. Newland in return responded," she never asked but respected May enough h to go no further with it.
When Archer was asking May who else knew she was pregnant AND then realized that his wife had discussed her (probably at that time, that she was ... possibly...) pregnant with Ellen before she "knew for sure" ... *I thought for a split second that* *he was going to snap her neck!* (It's Scorsese 😁) But I had read the book so, I knew that he would not do so --- But the way the scene was acted
I love how the camera follows May as she rises. In her quiet way she is a force to be reckoned. Newland irritated the heck out of me and DDL played him so well.
Though born at different years, I feel Wynona Ryder, Natalie Portman, and Keira Knightly would look like triplets in side by side picture comparison of them at the same ages (in the picture) as adults.
@@nicoleackerman205 I’m an older lady. Though I use a computer etc., I have no idea 🤷♀️ how to put the 3 images of them together. I guess I am not alone thinking they would look like triplets!
@@kittykatz4001 open a document and right click on image, choose "copy image" then pasted on the document. There are other better ways but this will get the job done. Not all images allow you to copy them so find one that does.
@@kittykatz4001 I never seen them in images next to each other I just thought even as a child that they looked like each other. When we watch The Curuible in 11th grade English some boy in the class said when we first saw Wynona character said Keira Knightley is in this move.
I’ve always thought it was a loss of innocence for all three of them. May and Newland were expected to marry and be reasonably happy because they came from THE right families. Neither had much life experience and both had romanticized expectations. Ellen had lost her innocence after marrying her European nobleman. She ran home to try to save herself. I think Newland was blindsided by Ellen, she was different from the other women he knew. Women were only expected to marry and merge fortunes and had little education. The book talks about how boring Newland found May whereas Ellen had been around authors and painters during her time in Europe. So it seems self-satisfied Newland had his world exploded by Ellen out of left field. The family also pushed them into a relationship by asking him to help her with the decisions she was facing. Then when they realized he was smitten, they rallied around Ellen. That is this scene. May was not stupid however and she ended up saving both their social lives (all anyone had in that system), Newland acknowledges this in the end. I don’t feel he was trying to take advantage of Ellen in a mean way at first. But it was heading that way. Both would have been cast out.
Her slow rise from the chair... the moment we get to see her steel determination... she towers above him... Oh! The terrifying May..... He is trapped by an indomitable predator and now knows he will never escape! I love Edith Wharton so much.... she slyly describes how women who held no political or economic power had to maneuver and manipulate the men around them to have any sort of choice or autonomy in their world... to so many tragic ends. Everyone is miserable under this system. People should just boink who they want.
@@meghanodonoghue9066 Unhappy? Compared to what? Today no one is forced to marry someone and stay married to that person. Women are legally independent people. This can only be a bad joke.
HE is the predator. May gave him the option to cancel the engagement from the start and yet he rushed her to marry him! So he entrapped himself in his own poor choices and she’s not about to be left in the dust just because “we should just boink whoever we want” all of a sudden. I say definitely secure the bag, ladies and beat these trifling men in their own sick game!
Back then, you were sure to bump into other rich aristocrats that you would be forced to socialize with if you went to Europe. If you truly wanted to be left alone you’d have to go farther away to Asia.
I've always been a commitment phobic person from a wretched childhood. I agree with the other comments.. But I must admit when I saw her get up from the chair like a snake and move so purposely toward him to tell him why he couldn't go anywhere. My stomach hurt. Like the time he wanted to invite the Frenchman to dinner but May wasn't having any of it. When she creeped closer and changed the next twenty years of his life, I wanted to be sick. I'm an older woman and Ive never gotten over the fear of commitment. Newland acted badly. May was protecting herself. Marriage isn't for everyone but Newland pushed May to marry him. Tense film. Excellent actors.
I have seen this movie 6 times now, and my opinion of Archer hasn't changed. He's spineless and brought this on himself... Yes, he was responsible for his mother and sister and breaking his engagement to May to be with the countess would have probably brought some scandal on them, but he was also a man, and men had more freedom back then to do what they wished Archer had only himself to blame
Agree. While younger, May was more prudent and knew to reign her husband in before he brought catastrophe upon both their families. Hers had barely survived Ellen. I also think Newland’s temperament would not have survived long being a social outcast. Ellen had to return to Europe. It also wasn’t clear why she had married the count - was it arranged? She struck me as quite vapid and dull. She was rather experienced for someone to feign innocence in society. Let’s face it, she wasn’t from the country. 😄
The whole core of the movie revolves on the spinelessness of Newland and how most males trapped in the life in the upper classes are really just tossed around by women. They make fun of Julius Beaufort but he was more alive and true to himself than any of them.
Give it another try. The more I learned about the time period and the other characters, the more complex the story is. On one level, it's pretty simple as it is about a man who realizes he married the perfect woman but not his soul mate. On the other hand it's the story of an observant wife who knew how to pull in her allies and quietly handle the situation before it became out of control. In that era when men held all the power, we see the subtle power of the women.
@@steveandme63 I don't really understand Ellens situation - could you kindly give me some clues? I don't understand why she came to US, why she couldn't adapt, how the society saw her,? which options did she have after the divorce? did she make any mistakes in behavior or judgement? thank you
@desclavia It's been quite a while since I read the book, but here goes: Cousin Ellen's parents were considered 'eccentric' and raised her to be more free spirited than her tightly laced extended family and social peers. They allowed her a broader education, and she was even allowed to wear like a dark color to her coming out ball (or something equally scandalous). Anyway, she amd her family ended up in Europe among like-minded wealthy expats. She met and married a count. Quite a coup for her, but he actually was of a despicable character or at least became so. Abuse is hinted at but not necessarily defined. It was bad enough, his private secretary helped her escape him and get back to the states and the safe harbor of her family. She wants a divorce so she can begin a new life, but that is too scandalous for the family to consider. The count wants her back, if just to play hostess to his wild excesses (whatever that means). The family will make sure she is financially secure as long as she doesn't divorce and plays by their rules. So as long as she doesn't divorce she has a couple of options: go back to the cad or be smothered by her family. However, her freedom and autonomy are not a choice as she is financially unstable. If Archer were brave enough, he would toss everything aside, take her and go abroad. He isn't and remains trapped in the perfect marriage to the perfect wife in a picture-perfect world. Pining for his soul mate, Ellen, and what could have been, but resigned to his fate. Ellen has chosen to live the rest of her life alone in Paris by the grace and largesse of Granny Mingot (who was quite a radical herself for her time). That's what I remember of the story. A very beautiful story of unrequited love amongst the very wealthy. So heavy the rigours of money and society. 😏( If only to be cursed with such a burden!)
@@steveandme63 wow, thank you so much for thé explanation. I really love this movie, but thanks to you, I understand it much better now. I wish you a lovely day, greetings
I dislike Oleska for going after a man whose life was set. Seh was a broken and messed up woman and she had no right to split Newland from May who was first promised and then married and then pregnant. Newland was a kind of a weak man and at the same time, he never even went after Olenska after May died and he was a free man. If Olenska had had sincere empathy, I am certain that she would not have connived to get alone with Archer and ESPECIALLY after he married. Then she took up with Beaufort who EVERYONE told her was bad news. As for Archer's feelings for Ellen, I think he has a quiet lust, but not a real respect or a real love for her. If he loved her he never would have let herself become alone with him and he would have fought hard and long to prevent her from compromising herself financially and personally with Beaufort.
The first time I saw this film, I felt badly for everyone involved, but I think Newland dropped the ball by not being honest with himself foremost and for going on with some thing that he knew was not right for him, but he cared so much about pretenses and other peoples opinions, and All the pretentious societal norms and what will people say and what will people do and he fell into the trap of being coerced into becoming what’s expected and right for everyone else but him. He had an opportunity to delay the engagement and figure out what was best for him and perhaps being alone was best for awhile, neither May or Ellen, but time to discover whatever he was longing for or meant to do. Ellen was never going to hurt her cousin or be the cause of her dismay or dishonor. May was mostly interested in social position and her economic stability. If you actually love someone you want what is best for them and you want their happiness, you don’t trap and force, but we also understand she was living in a time where courting and social expectations were everything even if it was all a facade! The not sure 2weeks ago but sure now pregnancy announcement was another nail in the box she planned to keep Newland in. The film isn’t really a love story but a slice of life view about human beings desire to fit in or be admired or create groups, social status or do whatever it takes to be “acceptable” even at the expense of their own lives. Was Newland happy? Let’s say he was content with some moments of happiness. Ellen did the right thing by not getting in the way. Was she ever happy- ? She was happy for May if May was indeed happy? But May knew that Newland got engaged and married her mostly out of a compromise to himself. So ultimately no one is truly happy but accepts their fates created by a society that is also in the very same boat of absurd expectations and anything out of the carefully arranged social order and conditions is met with scrutiny and scandal and extreme drama even if nobody knows the truth, just the hint or alluring concept of stepping outside of the lines or a shadow of a doubt is the end of their world. The film is about the value of being honest with yourself, being clear about your needs, your plans, your goals. Surrounding yourself with beauty, art, music, books and people that share in those interests. Living a life that at the end of it, God would say- well done, you lived, you loved and you wasted nothing. The story line is stressful in this film and the characters were exasperating! The reason I like the film is because Martin Scorsese was a genius at directing it. The slight details that make you pause and see how much more is going on that meets the eye. The lighting, the little nuances, the hidden in plain sight, the subtle tasteful details, it tells the story even better than the script and the script is excellent too. Every actor played their role perfectly. I think maybe that it’s possible that Newland and Ellen were friends - friends understand each other, there is an element of love between friends, however societal norms and fears especially at that time were very restrictive and paranoid about anything and everything! Still a an excellent film and a good resource for anyone interested in directed a film. 💫
Winona rider, en aquella ocacion NÓ ROBÓ POR IMPULSO, sinó detrás de camaras y en un film en desarrollo, SU DIRECTOR DE REPARTO, LE ACONSEJÓ ROBAR (cualquier cosa)
He, on the other hand, manipulated her to get married even earlier. She gave him a way out earlier in the film by offering to break an engagement (which would still be shameful in their society, but not as bad as a divorce). Now that she's married and her life is reliant on her husband, HE wants to be free? He should have taken the opportunity to break the engagement but he was Newland was always weak-willed.
Is that all you saw??? Didn’t you remember when she asked him after he was kissing her passionately, “Is there someone else…” and gave him the option to cancel the engagement, he was the one who kept rushing her to marry him! He is the manipulator in this story, NOT her!
Did you miss the scene when she tried to give him his freedom before they married. She suspected his affair and told him directly she didn't want to be a third wheel. He refused to let her go, and swore he was committed
@@christinajudge3251 so he's awful too and they deserve each other. I remember that scene and she seemed to be manipulative like suspecting something and trying to get confirmation. Shes a player, not authentic
The first time I saw this film, I felt badly for everyone involved, but I think Newland dropped the ball by not being honest with himself foremost and for going on with some thing that he knew was not right for him, but he cared so much about pretenses and other peoples opinions, and All the pretentious societal norms and what will people say and what will people do and he fell into the trap of being coerced into becoming what’s expected and right for everyone else but him. He had an opportunity to delay the engagement and figure out what was best for him and perhaps being alone was best for awhile, neither May or Ellen, but time to discover whatever he was longing for or meant to do. Ellen was never going to hurt her cousin or be the cause of her dismay or dishonor. May was mostly interested in social position and her economic stability. If you actually love someone you want what is best for them and you want their happiness, you don’t trap and force, but we also understand she was living in a time where courting and social expectations were everything even if it was all a facade! The not sure 2weeks ago but sure now pregnancy announcement was another nail in the box she planned to keep Newland in. The film isn’t really a love story but a slice of life view about human beings desire to fit in or be admired or create groups, social status or do whatever it takes to be “acceptable” even at the expense of their own lives. Was Newland happy? Let’s say he was content with some moments of happiness. Ellen did the right thing by not getting in the way. Was she ever happy- ? She was happy for May if May was indeed happy? But May knew that Newland got engaged and married her mostly out of a compromise to himself. So ultimately no one is truly happy but accepts their fates created by a society that is also in the very same boat of absurd expectations and anything out of the carefully arranged social order and conditions is met with scrutiny and scandal and extreme drama even if nobody knows the truth, just the hint or alluring concept of stepping outside of the lines or a shadow of a doubt is the end of their world. The film is about the value of being honest with yourself, being clear about your needs, your plans, your goals. Surrounding yourself with beauty, art, music, books and people that share in those interests. Living a life that at the end of it, God would say- well done, you lived, you loved and you wasted nothing. The story line is stressful in this film and the characters were exasperating! The reason I like the film is because Martin Scorsese was a genius at directing it. The slight details that make you pause and see how much more is going on that meets the eye. The lighting, the little nuances, the hidden in plain sight, the subtle tasteful details, it tells the story even better than the script and the script is excellent too. Every actor played their role perfectly. I think maybe that it’s possible that Newland and Ellen were friends - friends understand each other, there is an element of love between friends, however societal norms and fears especially at that time were very restrictive and paranoid about anything and everything! Still a an excellent film and a good resource for anyone interested in directed a film. 💫
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
The only person who messed it all up was Newland. May gave him a chance to leave their relationship before their wedding, and he still married her. Sorry, dude
Everyone is pity him and says he's "trapped"... well, May didn't get pregnant alone!
Funny how people always forget that part.
No kidding!! As if getting pregnant in the context of marriage is breaking the law! The only one who trapped anyone was him trapping everyone around him in his web of indecisiveness, selfishness and lies!
Exactly
Yeah he was having sex with her without protection
May gave him an out in Saint Agustin. But he's a coward.
Most didn't understand or they completely glossed over May's character in this film.
Demure and unassuming...
She was smart, cunning, and knew very well what Archer was up to.
May had a strategy and executed it masterfully !
May was straight up savage
Quedarse con alguien que no la amaba? Para la época es juego ganado pero igualmente triste.
@@miriamponlatetera4611
In those days divorce was unheard of...A Tabu!
Countless wives stayed in loveless marriages.
In some parts of the world this still goes on...even to this day!
And keep in mind, this is a period piece film...
Status, Wealth, & Position in Society ruled the day...Archer understood this!
That is why even when May gave him an out, he still chose to marry her.
May was in fact intelligent and wise enough to see and accept how the world was for women at that time. She knew the 'score' for women of her era and class and good for her for saving her husband from his lunacy. Second, how would any of us react? Back then even May's fortune went to her husband's bank account. It wasn't just May, it was her mother who moved in and was dependent on Archer's protection as he was the man of the house.
@@dianecrow6068I don't think anything will really ever change for women. Over 70% of women who end up divorced end up living under the poverty level for the rest of their lives unless they re-marry. (The chances of the second marriage working out is half that of the first.)
The reason for this is that women get pregnant (which limits our employment options), and (naturally) women choose to stay with their children. This takes years of work experience away from them that they can never get back. Women are also less assertive and commanding than men. We are more agreeable and warm. This is excellent to nurture children, but it doesn't lead to job promotion.
The only thing women can ever do is either become a man in the patriarchal system or play the wife in the game and just ask for the rules to be more fair, which is to ask men not to act like the dirt bag in this film.
Men need to love, understand, protect, and nurture their wives. I feel like that's a short order compared to the crap we have to put up with being domineered over, and constantly having our livlihood at stake just because we want to love, protect and teach our children.
I have more statistics to talk about, but this is long enough.
My favorite movie! The way they circled the wagons.....Newland didn't know what hit him until it was too late. May wasn't as dense as he thought. Brilliant use of power on display. Loved the book and the movie is a masterpiece to me.
Mine too!
What book plz?
@@josefinagarza241 The movie is based on the book by the same name which is in the title of this video.
Winona Ryder should have won an Oscar for this performance.
Well, she could have stole one but she get caught like the time she was caught stealing from a store
@@nonoyaya3884 People who have done worse still get nominated.
At 15, I sympathized with the star-crossed lovers. Now? All I can think is--dude, you're married.
Me too. At 75 I realize how precious marriage should be.
Yeah, I think May would have been socially ruined by a divorce especially under those circumstances..And at her age it would have been a total waste. It was so selfish of him, after he had married her.
IKR!
@@d2d2d3d3very selfish indeed considering he rushed all the way down to Florida where they were summering to convince May to convince Grannie Mingott to speed up the engagement/engagement announcement.
I felt the same watching when younger , and also different now
Not pity for him at all. He tried to play May and lost. She gave him an out earlier when she asked if perhaps he loved somone else and wanted to end things. He would have looked bad in society at that point and didn't want to do that so he continued with the engagement. He styed in the engagement then wants to cry about it later. If he had left May as a married women she would lost her good name in society as well as him and why should she have to deal with that after she did give him an out HE CHOSE not to take. In the end his reputation was really more important to him then being with Ellen. May is the real victim since she was chained for life to a guy she knows doesn't really love her but has some fantasy about a women he had an emotional fling with that she has to forever be compared with in his mind for the rest of their life together. Not to mention he doesn't give her intellect enough credit. She saw through him it's only his son that enlightens that to him as the end. So in my opinion May is just doing what she has to do for self preservation of her name and charactor which was all to a woman those days.
If May could find it in herself to know and pity why can’t you?
@@RtB68 I have no use for people who use others and think only of their own misery. He had his chance to do right and leave the relationship before marriage. He used her sexually and wants to run off and leave her disgraced. Nope not feeling for such selfishness.
@@annstillwell730 …sounds like something I’d hear from the New York establishment. It also sounds like a judgmental view, but hey. I’ll side with May.
My God, dude, take a breath. Your long paragraphs make me dizzy.
He gratified himself using the body of a woman that he honestly fantasied would die. He wasn't trapped, he met the consequences of his actions.
When did he fantasize that she'd die?
@@kleeamd8274 at one of their dinners, he says to himself "Maybe she'll die?"
This movie is perfection in film. Scorsese says it's his most violent one -all the tension is underlying.
I love that description. This movie is phenomenal
We watched this in film class and back then I didn't understand how it's "violent". Now that I'm older, I finally get it.
She didn't turn to look at him. Like in the lighthouse....💔.
Impressive and perfect movie. My favorite from Scorsese. And possibly one of the best period films ever made.
In some ways I respect May Wellington but in many ways not. She was a victom of the times and societal norms. She wasn't as stupid or helpless as people thought. She could her way and manipulate with the best. I'm not saying Newland Archer was innocent either. He had a chance to say no to marrying May but didn't. I will give him credit for doing the right thing by being a loyal husband, provider, and father to his children. Even in the end when in Paris after she died he stayed loyal to her and his traditions. I give May credit for knowing about Newland and Ellen but keeping it to herself and being respectful. I really liked the part when Newland and his son were in Paris and were going to visit Ellen. He told her May had talked to him separately before she died and told him her children would always be safe with their father. The one time she asked him to give up the thing he loved(Ellen) he did. Newland in return responded," she never asked but respected May enough h to go no further with it.
Really loved how all his " plans to travel ( and cheat on May)" just vanished when she told him she was pregnant.
When Archer was asking May
who else knew she was
pregnant AND then realized
that his wife had discussed her
(probably at that time, that she
was ... possibly...) pregnant
with Ellen before she "knew for
sure" ...
*I thought for a split second that*
*he was going to snap her neck!*
(It's Scorsese 😁)
But I had read the book so, I knew
that he would not do so --- But
the way the scene was acted
I love how the camera follows May as she rises. In her quiet way she is a force to be reckoned.
Newland irritated the heck out of me and DDL played him so well.
Though born at different years, I feel Wynona Ryder, Natalie Portman, and Keira Knightly would look like triplets in side by side picture comparison of them at the same ages (in the picture) as adults.
Yes I totally agree.
@@nicoleackerman205 I’m an older lady. Though I use a computer etc., I have no idea 🤷♀️ how to put the 3 images of them together.
I guess I am not alone thinking they would look like triplets!
@@kittykatz4001 open a document and right click on image, choose "copy image" then pasted on the document. There are other better ways but this will get the job done. Not all images allow you to copy them so find one that does.
@@kittykatz4001 I never seen them in images next to each other I just thought even as a child that they looked like each other. When we watch The Curuible in 11th grade English some boy in the class said when we first saw Wynona character said Keira Knightley is in this move.
Keira was Natalee’s stand in on the Star Wars movies.
I’ve always thought it was a loss of innocence for all three of them.
May and Newland were expected to marry and be reasonably happy because they came from THE right families. Neither had much life experience and both had romanticized expectations.
Ellen had lost her innocence after marrying her European nobleman. She ran home to try to save herself. I think Newland was blindsided by Ellen, she was different from the other women he knew. Women were only expected to marry and merge fortunes and had little education. The book talks about how boring Newland found May whereas Ellen had been around authors and painters during her time in Europe.
So it seems self-satisfied Newland had his world exploded by Ellen out of left field.
The family also pushed them into a relationship by asking him to help her with the decisions she was facing. Then when they realized he was smitten, they rallied around Ellen. That is this scene.
May was not stupid however and she ended up saving both their social lives (all anyone had in that system), Newland acknowledges this in the end.
I don’t feel he was trying to take advantage of Ellen in a mean way at first. But it was heading that way. Both would have been cast out.
Her slow rise from the chair... the moment we get to see her steel determination... she towers above him... Oh! The terrifying May..... He is trapped by an indomitable predator and now knows he will never escape!
I love Edith Wharton so much.... she slyly describes how women who held no political or economic power had to maneuver and manipulate the men around them to have any sort of choice or autonomy in their world... to so many tragic ends. Everyone is miserable under this system. People should just boink who they want.
Thats what people do now, and everyone is still miserable.
@@marianagastelum6051For different reasons, the system changed but humans are humans
Yeah, that is today's society. Everyone is even more miserable.
@@meghanodonoghue9066 Unhappy? Compared to what? Today no one is forced to marry someone and stay married to that person. Women are legally independent people. This can only be a bad joke.
HE is the predator. May gave him the option to cancel the engagement from the start and yet he rushed her to marry him! So he entrapped himself in his own poor choices and she’s not about to be left in the dust just because “we should just boink whoever we want” all of a sudden. I say definitely secure the bag, ladies and beat these trifling men in their own sick game!
How is it that when people feel lost they are all like : “ Yeah, I’ll go to Asia and find myself again” 😂😂😂😂
Back then, you were sure to bump into other rich aristocrats that you would be forced to socialize with if you went to Europe. If you truly wanted to be left alone you’d have to go farther away to Asia.
He wasn't lost, he was in love with another woman and wanted to get away from his wife and shack up with her in Paris.
@@kaizma88 face your wife with truth instead of running away to Japan 🤣
You forget Africa and Costa Rica or other parts of Latin America.
Beware of short people and of quiet people because they’re always hiding half of themselves in a dark corner.
lol”😂
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
😂
😲
I've always been a commitment phobic person from a wretched childhood. I agree with the other comments.. But I must admit when I saw her get up from the chair like a snake and move so purposely toward him to tell him why he couldn't go anywhere. My stomach hurt. Like the time he wanted to invite the Frenchman to dinner but May wasn't having any of it. When she creeped closer and changed the next twenty years of his life, I wanted to be sick. I'm an older woman and Ive never gotten over the fear of commitment. Newland acted badly. May was protecting herself. Marriage isn't for everyone but Newland pushed May to marry him. Tense film. Excellent actors.
I have seen this movie 6 times now, and my opinion of Archer hasn't changed. He's spineless and brought this on himself...
Yes, he was responsible for his mother and sister and breaking his engagement to May to be with the countess would have probably brought some scandal on them, but he was also a man, and men had more freedom back then to do what they wished
Archer had only himself to blame
Agree. While younger, May was more prudent and knew to reign her husband in before he brought catastrophe upon both their families. Hers had barely survived Ellen. I also think Newland’s temperament would not have survived long being a social outcast. Ellen had to return to Europe. It also wasn’t clear why she had married the count - was it arranged? She struck me as quite vapid and dull. She was rather experienced for someone to feign innocence in society. Let’s face it, she wasn’t from the country. 😄
“There were three of us in this marriage; so it was a bit crowded.”
Both "beta" males, but as we see in this movie, they are so convinced they are... princes.
More than 3 - Diana was apparently referring to her kids' nanny
@@SB_McCollum I mean Charles was literally a prince
Extraordinary beauty and talent and storytelling and directing
💚
Ellen knew exactly what she was doing.
Is this their second project together? They were also in The Crucible right?
Yes ❤
This was in 1993, The Crucible was in 1996.
This movie came out in 1993...crucible in 1996 .
Yes, 1993. Should have been nominated for best picture and director at the Oscars.
He was phenomenal in The Crucible.
I know I should feel bad about Archer, but I don't, May gave him an out before the marriage, but he didn't take it, this is all his doing
This is one of my favourite movies!!!!! I am in film and would have loved to work on this!
The whole core of the movie revolves on the spinelessness of Newland and how most males trapped in the life in the upper classes are really just tossed around by women. They make fun of Julius Beaufort but he was more alive and true to himself than any of them.
Very true about Beaufort. But he was bad with other peoples money.
That meme "oh shit oh shit oh shit" fits perfectly here 😅
Women…she just tried to keep her husband stay & told to aunt to keep away from her husband in polite smooth way😂
I like your clips but the audio on them is all too low. I have to blast it and then turn it back down for the rest of youtube. :)
He never saw what was coming to him! Poor Newland!
She hit him like a freight train. Basically she said I'm not as dumb as you think I am. 😊
Part of the whole point is how stupidly blind he was, everyone could see through him and he thought he was so special and clever.
I saw a lot of very positive reviews. I just watched Blade Runner for the 1st time, so I bet I'll end up watching this at some point.
I love period dramas, but I've never been able to connect to this one.
Give it another try. The more I learned about the time period and the other characters, the more complex the story is. On one level, it's pretty simple as it is about a man who realizes he married the perfect woman but not his soul mate. On the other hand it's the story of an observant wife who knew how to pull in her allies and quietly handle the situation before it became out of control. In that era when men held all the power, we see the subtle power of the women.
Thank you. I will consider that, because I really WANTED to like it. Take care.
@@steveandme63 I don't really understand Ellens situation - could you kindly give me some clues? I don't understand why she came to US, why she couldn't adapt, how the society saw her,? which options did she have after the divorce? did she make any mistakes in behavior or judgement? thank you
@desclavia It's been quite a while since I read the book, but here goes:
Cousin Ellen's parents were considered 'eccentric' and raised her to be more free spirited than her tightly laced extended family and social peers. They allowed her a broader education, and she was even allowed to wear like a dark color to her coming out ball (or something equally scandalous). Anyway, she amd her family ended up in Europe among like-minded wealthy expats. She met and married a count. Quite a coup for her, but he actually was of a despicable character or at least became so. Abuse is hinted at but not necessarily defined. It was bad enough, his private secretary helped her escape him and get back to the states and the safe harbor of her family. She wants a divorce so she can begin a new life, but that is too scandalous for the family to consider. The count wants her back, if just to play hostess to his wild excesses (whatever that means). The family will make sure she is financially secure as long as she doesn't divorce and plays by their rules. So as long as she doesn't divorce she has a couple of options: go back to the cad or be smothered by her family. However, her freedom and autonomy are not a choice as she is financially unstable. If Archer were brave enough, he would toss everything aside, take her and go abroad. He isn't and remains trapped in the perfect marriage to the perfect wife in a picture-perfect world. Pining for his soul mate, Ellen, and what could have been, but resigned to his fate. Ellen has chosen to live the rest of her life alone in Paris by the grace and largesse of Granny Mingot (who was quite a radical herself for her time).
That's what I remember of the story. A very beautiful story of unrequited love amongst the very wealthy. So heavy the rigours of money and society. 😏( If only to be cursed with such a burden!)
@@steveandme63 wow, thank you so much for thé explanation. I really love this movie, but thanks to you, I understand it much better now. I wish you a lovely day, greetings
Three years later they were in The Crucible
I dislike Oleska for going after a man whose life was set. Seh was a broken and messed up woman and she had no right to split Newland from May who was first promised and then married and then pregnant. Newland was a kind of a weak man and at the same time, he never even went after Olenska after May died and he was a free man. If Olenska had had sincere empathy, I am certain that she would not have connived to get alone with Archer and ESPECIALLY after he married. Then she took up with Beaufort who EVERYONE told her was bad news. As for Archer's feelings for Ellen, I think he has a quiet lust, but not a real respect or a real love for her. If he loved her he never would have let herself become alone with him and he would have fought hard and long to prevent her from compromising herself financially and personally with Beaufort.
Love this movie
The first time I saw this film, I felt badly for everyone involved, but I think Newland dropped the ball by not being honest with himself foremost and for going on with some thing that he knew was not right for him, but he cared so much about pretenses and other peoples opinions, and All the pretentious societal norms and what will people say and what will people do and he fell into the trap of being coerced into becoming what’s expected and right for everyone else but him. He had an opportunity to delay the engagement and figure out what was best for him and perhaps being alone was best for awhile, neither May or Ellen, but time to discover whatever he was longing for or meant to do.
Ellen was never going to hurt her cousin or be the cause of her dismay or dishonor. May was mostly interested in social position and her economic stability. If you actually love someone you want what is best for them and you want their happiness, you don’t trap and force, but we also understand she was living in a time where courting and social expectations were everything even if it was all a facade! The not sure 2weeks ago but sure now pregnancy announcement was another nail in the box she planned to keep Newland in.
The film isn’t really a love story but a slice of life view about human beings desire to fit in or be admired or create groups, social status or do whatever it takes to be “acceptable” even at the expense of their own lives. Was Newland happy? Let’s say he was content with some moments of happiness. Ellen did the right thing by not getting in the way. Was she ever happy- ? She was happy for May if May was indeed happy? But May knew that Newland got engaged and married her mostly out of a compromise to himself.
So ultimately no one is truly happy but accepts their fates created by a society that is also in the very same boat of absurd expectations and anything out of the carefully arranged social order and conditions is met with scrutiny and scandal and extreme drama even if nobody knows the truth, just the hint or alluring concept of stepping outside of the lines or a shadow of a doubt is the end of their world.
The film is about the value of being honest with yourself, being clear about your needs, your plans, your goals. Surrounding yourself with beauty, art, music, books and people that share in those interests. Living a life that at the end of it, God would say- well done, you lived, you loved and you wasted nothing.
The story line is stressful in this film and the characters were exasperating!
The reason I like the film is because Martin Scorsese was a genius at directing it. The slight details that make you pause and see how much more is going on that meets the eye.
The lighting, the little nuances, the hidden in plain sight, the subtle tasteful details, it tells the story even better than the script and the script is excellent too. Every actor played their role perfectly.
I think maybe that it’s possible that Newland and Ellen were friends - friends understand each other, there is an element of love between friends, however societal norms and fears especially at that time were very restrictive and paranoid about anything and everything!
Still a an excellent film and a good resource for anyone interested in directed a film. 💫
I would be like yeah I am pregnant and them do and evil smirk to both of them.
That must've been depressing for May to be with a husband who didn't want her.
Never underestimate a woman's cunning and jealous streak
So many stones in these comments…and so many glass houses. If May could find it in her heart to pity Newland and forgive, why can’t you???
She is like Misery breaking the writer's legs so that he can't walk away.
Winona rider, en aquella ocacion NÓ ROBÓ POR IMPULSO, sinó detrás de camaras y en un film en desarrollo, SU DIRECTOR DE REPARTO, LE ACONSEJÓ ROBAR (cualquier cosa)
It is so sad that she couldn't fully enjoy her marriage because down deep she knew something was off. He is such a jerk.
I’m glad she handled him. Never liked the side piece
He is sickening
Mina ...
I hated both Newland and oleska.
When you read the book it hits different.
Manipulator
His wife manipulated him to stay. I don’t care if they were married. It was a lie
He, on the other hand, manipulated her to get married even earlier. She gave him a way out earlier in the film by offering to break an engagement (which would still be shameful in their society, but not as bad as a divorce). Now that she's married and her life is reliant on her husband, HE wants to be free? He should have taken the opportunity to break the engagement but he was Newland was always weak-willed.
Is that all you saw??? Didn’t you remember when she asked him after he was kissing her passionately, “Is there someone else…” and gave him the option to cancel the engagement, he was the one who kept rushing her to marry him! He is the manipulator in this story, NOT her!
@@a.m.308agreed.
Bastards will be bastards in any era and in any suit.
@@a.m.308 She risked a little, and she won 😄
Awful women his wife🤮
Did you miss the scene when she tried to give him his freedom before they married. She suspected his affair and told him directly she didn't want to be a third wheel. He refused to let her go, and swore he was committed
@@christinajudge3251 so he's awful too and they deserve each other. I remember that scene and she seemed to be manipulative like suspecting something and trying to get confirmation. Shes a player, not authentic
he's effing spineless!
@@Alice-ts3vlshe just wanted to keep her husband, nothing manipulative about it.
She did absolutely nothing wrong.
The first time I saw this film, I felt badly for everyone involved, but I think Newland dropped the ball by not being honest with himself foremost and for going on with some thing that he knew was not right for him, but he cared so much about pretenses and other peoples opinions, and All the pretentious societal norms and what will people say and what will people do and he fell into the trap of being coerced into becoming what’s expected and right for everyone else but him. He had an opportunity to delay the engagement and figure out what was best for him and perhaps being alone was best for awhile, neither May or Ellen, but time to discover whatever he was longing for or meant to do.
Ellen was never going to hurt her cousin or be the cause of her dismay or dishonor. May was mostly interested in social position and her economic stability. If you actually love someone you want what is best for them and you want their happiness, you don’t trap and force, but we also understand she was living in a time where courting and social expectations were everything even if it was all a facade! The not sure 2weeks ago but sure now pregnancy announcement was another nail in the box she planned to keep Newland in.
The film isn’t really a love story but a slice of life view about human beings desire to fit in or be admired or create groups, social status or do whatever it takes to be “acceptable” even at the expense of their own lives. Was Newland happy? Let’s say he was content with some moments of happiness. Ellen did the right thing by not getting in the way. Was she ever happy- ? She was happy for May if May was indeed happy? But May knew that Newland got engaged and married her mostly out of a compromise to himself.
So ultimately no one is truly happy but accepts their fates created by a society that is also in the very same boat of absurd expectations and anything out of the carefully arranged social order and conditions is met with scrutiny and scandal and extreme drama even if nobody knows the truth, just the hint or alluring concept of stepping outside of the lines or a shadow of a doubt is the end of their world.
The film is about the value of being honest with yourself, being clear about your needs, your plans, your goals. Surrounding yourself with beauty, art, music, books and people that share in those interests. Living a life that at the end of it, God would say- well done, you lived, you loved and you wasted nothing.
The story line is stressful in this film and the characters were exasperating!
The reason I like the film is because Martin Scorsese was a genius at directing it. The slight details that make you pause and see how much more is going on that meets the eye.
The lighting, the little nuances, the hidden in plain sight, the subtle tasteful details, it tells the story even better than the script and the script is excellent too. Every actor played their role perfectly.
I think maybe that it’s possible that Newland and Ellen were friends - friends understand each other, there is an element of love between friends, however societal norms and fears especially at that time were very restrictive and paranoid about anything and everything!
Still a an excellent film and a good resource for anyone interested in directed a film. 💫