I loved Brough Scott, John Francome, Lord Oaksey, Derek Thompson and of course, John McCrirrick. I did have a soft spot for Alistair Down too. He was a brilliant writer and loved the odd tipple.
I certainly met all of them pre 1995 though John Rickman and Ken Butler were retired. John was an excellent tipster and one of the few racing journalists of the time to take tipping very seriously. Pre the start of ITV, John did have some experience with BBC Television filling in for Clive Graham. Ken got into racing kind of by accident. His family were the Butler of Lambert and Butler Tobacco. He disliked the tobacco business and when Associated-Rediffusion started in 1955 (covering ITV for the London area) he was hired as the Outside Broadcasts Manager and became a presenter and paddock commentator because it made economic sense for the station. He also became a successful wine merchant in his spare time and lived in a converted barn near Lingfield. Before 1968, weekday racing on ITV was not always networked. The ITA (as it was then called) allowed racing to be covered under each franchise holders local broadcast hours remit. So, for example, if John Rickman was hosting a 3 race card from Redcar on a Tuesday, Tyne Tees, Granada and Anglia may take the whole program but Associated-Rediffusion, Southern and ABC may only have taken one or two races. It sounds simple enough today but back then it took a huge amount of orchestration. John would have to say Goodbye to viewers in one region, welcome viewers on another region, while a third region watched it all and some regions saw nothing! The establishment of ITV Sport in 1968 put pay to that but there were still one or two hangovers well into the 1970's. 1. Racing would be used to test transmitters. A good example, is two non-descript days of midweek NH Racing from Doncaster in January 1972 used to test the Emley Moor Transmitter than had blown down in 1968. And a couple of week day meetings from Market Rasen in late 1974 to test the split between Yorkshire Television and Anglia Television. 2. Meanwhile when ATV got given the Midlands region only in 1968, Lew Grade was not keen on sport and Head of Sport Gary Newbon throughout the 1970's had to fight tooth and claw to get any racing from the region on World of Sport especially during football season as ATV covered a huge area but for their size only had very limited OB video facilities. Gary was a big racing fan but the 1970's were a great time for Football in the Midlands and Star Soccer (which was distributed internationally by ITC) took priority. Speaking of which, if you go to Football forums online you will see ATV Football Commentator Hugh Johns has had his work very positively reevaluated in recent years. Gary pleaded with Central Television to keep Hugh Johns on as their main commentator when ATV lost their franchise in 1981 but it was not to be. In retrospect, a big mistake.
Yes, a wonderful insight into TV sport broadcasting history. I note Gary Newbon is also in the credits as having commentated on the Speedway. Terrific memory of that era and the Kenny Carter tragedy.
World of Sport had nowhere near the rights that Grandstand did, and had to fill in with all sorts of stuff that was considered a joke even at the time. But rights for racing were more evenly divided, and ITV made it into the core of the show. And it did it very well. I know John McCrirrick could go too far, but he did get across the excitement of the betting, which racing on BBC rather played down. Thanks for these posts.
@@HorseRacingLegends Yeah, I liked BBC racing too. Re McCrirrick, Jamie Reid in one of his excellent books was positive about him as being (IIRC) sincere and consistent in his views.
Loved the itv 80 s racing theme also funny how itv showed only 3 races on boxing day card remember bbc sometimes only showed 3 on Cheltenham festival Tuesday because of budget.
World of Sport's theme music was certainly one of the best. Today's horse racing television coverage is just a pale imitation of the halcyon days of the 1960s. They just don't come any better than John Rickman, Tony Cooke, Ken Butler and Raleigh Gilbert.
@@HorseRacingLegends making a batch of tattie scones right now , you can’t buy them here and I learned from a TH-cam tutorial n turns out I’m fkn great at it - same with Lorne/Square sausages .. get in ! 👍🏴
@@jaymacgee_A_Bawbag_Blethering Those Videos get a Million Views and mine get about a Hundred lol.I had a Roll n Bacon with an Egg and Tattie Scone on it Yesterday.Cracking it was.
Good to see this old footage, never seen it before. Nice old footage of the Noble Lord. Am I right in saying that John Oaksey's last programme on Channel 4 Racing was from Market Rasen when he seemed to pause or stumble? I don't remember seeing him presenting after that.
This is a very long answer to a simple question... Of all the commentators we have discussed, I think Raleigh Gilbert and John Penney would be the two who would thrive the most in today’s multi-media world. Raleigh was the first to merge racecourse commentating in to with his TV style. He got a lot of push back but stuck to his guns. Everyone owes him a huge debt and if more commentators had Raleigh’s work ethic and near obsession level of wanting to call races better, we would have more great commentators, today. I can certainly go into this more if wanted. Of all the people I have known in my life, I wish I had known Raleigh with the wisdom that only comes with age. John Penney first started filling in for Peter O’Sullevan and Clive Graham in 1966-1969 and in those days David Coleman (latterly Frank Bough) would often throw an in-vision link to him on Grandstand. He was occasionally seen on ITV Racing in the 1970’s but also wrote some racing articles for TV Times with a picture of him and his face regularly appeared in The Sporting Life. However, he regularly appeared on Anglia Television in the 1970’s and was the special guest on Thames Television’s “The David Nixon Show” in August 1977 which was networked on ITV. His photo also regularly appeared in the IBA’s Broadcasting books in the 1970’s. Appearance wise, in my mind’s eye (and remember I was a kid) he had the presence of a guardsman. Stiff back, shoulders high, but he was very friendly. Not a dour person at all. I can see him now in a Panama hat in summer or a flat cap in bad weather with a quilted jacket in the commentary box at Newmarket, a box of Castella’s next to his race card and a set of Zeiss 10x40 Binoculars to hand. We spent several afternoons in his white BMW sheltering from the rain down the course at Newmarket when they had two commentators. If you indulge me, I think John would love the racing media landscape today as he worked multiple jobs for practically his entire 40 year career. In about 1957 after his failed NH training career, he started with Raceform and then in 1958 joined BRARCO, the forerunner of RTS/Racetech as a racecourse commentator. He told me it was Allen Clarke (former BBC Radio Football commentator alongside Brian Moore in the early 1960’s) who recommended him to BBC Radio but I have read it was Cliff Morgan, anyway as a result John got his first radio job in 1960 at Thirsk calling the Thirsk Hunt Cup won by Mystery for their Northern Service. In 1962, he started at The Sporting Life writing previews and reports so it would not have been uncommon for John in a month to work for BBC Radio in the North, The Sporting Life, Raceform and BRARCO! However, Peter Bromley and Michael Seth-Smith had BBC National Radio tied up but in 1966 he joined the BBC Radio team for the Grand National (and except for his time as primary commentator at ITV) called the race most years until 1997. The same year he started filling in for Peter O’Sullevan or Clive Graham on BBC Television and would continue until 1969 when at the end of that year he joined ITV Sport (Raleigh Gilbert replaced him as a stand in on the BBC.) When Tony Cooke stood down in late 1972, John was hired as primary commentator with Raleigh as secondary commentator. John had seniority but except for the Derby and the Oaks looking back they shared a lot of big races, and it was not a heated rivalry from what I can tell. One reason for this is although he lived near me in East Anglia, a lot of his work for Raceform and The Sporting Life was based in the North and Scotland. So, if an ITV7 was from (say) Catterick and Sandown, it often made more sense for John to cover the three races from Catterick versus the four from Sandown and so on. I think he finished with the Sporting Life in about 1984 but was still racecourse commentating on minor meetings in 1995 and doing Raceform until at least 1993. At the end of 1980, John was replaced by Graham Goode who had been a holiday fill-in on ITV since 1973. I have never worked out quite why - but John was a family man and shortly grandkids would be on the way. I know ITV interviewed Julian Wilson, Graham Goode and Derek Thompson. Of course, Derek joined as a presenter in 1981 in preparation for Ken Butler to turn 60 in 1982 and retire. Certainly, in his first year at ITV, Derek did commentate on the odd race. I cannot believe John was stood down because of lack of commentating skills! However, John also had quite a career on BBC Local Radio as Racing Correspondent for BBC Radio Cambridgeshire and BBC Radio Essex well into the 1990’s again. His last call on Channel 4 was on Cambridgeshire weekend in 1993. An amazing career embracing every single medium available at the time at the same time. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the commentating career of Hugh Johns has recently been re-evaluated very positively by football fans. It is high time the career of John Penney was as well.
@@BritishRaceCaller That’s an incredible insight in John Penny and Raleigh Gilbert.Noel Tyrrel contacted me a couple of years ago to get some recordings of Raleigh and I sent him some.Have you ever spoken to Noel about what you know.? He was trying to get stuff together to do a Book about Raleigh.He’s very nice to talk to.Thank you so much for all your information and I will keep delving into my collection to see what I can find.My Channel is not a Monetized one.I just do it for a Hobby and to keep the memories of the Great Days alive.Thank you. Gordon HRL.
@@HorseRacingLegends Noel and I have had many many hours talking about Raleigh! A unique man, who lived on his nerves, loved a party, lived in a nice part of Hammersmith but ultimately a singular figure. He would get so nervous, you did not want to be around him an hour before commentating. But beforehand and after, he was very different. He drilled into me the idea of homework and prep like no other. Thank you for all you do to keep the past alive.
Thanks for posting. Some of the ladies are OK on ITV now, but the men, apart from Luke , are pants. Weaver will have you in Carey Street if you listen to him.
Still miss the C4 gang, its now just a shadow of what it was. Some Godawful decisions to book Chamberlin instead of Nick Luck and gthat dozey twerp Chapman. Also hate seeing everyone have to strain their necks lookign upto Chamberlin now they all have to stand up. Absolutely awful TV.
@37:53 - the jump into the age of imagistic TV run by marketeers is painful and jarring... Insincere forced positivity, fake exaggerated enthusiasm, projected assertion of authority. No longer are you being spoken to as a fellow fan of sport, but as a target to be manipulated.
The late great Lester Piggott there talking to the Brough Scott. I remember Ed Chamberlin saying something about he didn't understand why they stopped him presenting (I can't remember his exact words).
![ILLSLICK X YOUNGOHM - We're The same [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yUJNkobYR0E/mqdefault.jpg)
What a wonderful thing nostalgia is. Watching this I felt young again.
That’s what this Channel is here for.So glad you enjoy it.
I loved Brough Scott, John Francome, Lord Oaksey, Derek Thompson and of course, John McCrirrick. I did have a soft spot for Alistair Down too. He was a brilliant writer and loved the odd tipple.
Yes all brilliant
Great memories, Dickie Davis, Big Daddy, Giant Haystacks, I'm loving it.
Glad you like it.Thank you so much.
Fantastic racing in those days , remember sea pigeon and monks field , good old Peter eastaby.
Yes 2 of The Greats and a Brilliant Trainer
Yes 2 of The Greats and a Brilliant Trainer
Days when we weren't over saturated with racing on the telly made it more exciting when it was on great days.
Yes too many decent meetings on the same Day,
And the itv 7 wasn't the be all and end all.
Brough Scott never looks any different even now, Oaksy legend, Francome greatest jockey and good old Mcririck,,,
Yes they were all absolutely Brilliant
...great nostalgia...how we miss them!
Agreed.
I certainly met all of them pre 1995 though John Rickman and Ken Butler were retired. John was an excellent tipster and one of the few racing journalists of the time to take tipping very seriously. Pre the start of ITV, John did have some experience with BBC Television filling in for Clive Graham. Ken got into racing kind of by accident. His family were the Butler of Lambert and Butler Tobacco. He disliked the tobacco business and when Associated-Rediffusion started in 1955 (covering ITV for the London area) he was hired as the Outside Broadcasts Manager and became a presenter and paddock commentator because it made economic sense for the station. He also became a successful wine merchant in his spare time and lived in a converted barn near Lingfield.
Before 1968, weekday racing on ITV was not always networked. The ITA (as it was then called) allowed racing to be covered under each franchise holders local broadcast hours remit. So, for example, if John Rickman was hosting a 3 race card from Redcar on a Tuesday, Tyne Tees, Granada and Anglia may take the whole program but Associated-Rediffusion, Southern and ABC may only have taken one or two races. It sounds simple enough today but back then it took a huge amount of orchestration. John would have to say Goodbye to viewers in one region, welcome viewers on another region, while a third region watched it all and some regions saw nothing!
The establishment of ITV Sport in 1968 put pay to that but there were still one or two hangovers well into the 1970's.
1. Racing would be used to test transmitters. A good example, is two non-descript days of midweek NH Racing from Doncaster in January 1972 used to test the Emley Moor Transmitter than had blown down in 1968. And a couple of week day meetings from Market Rasen in late 1974 to test the split between Yorkshire Television and Anglia Television.
2. Meanwhile when ATV got given the Midlands region only in 1968, Lew Grade was not keen on sport and Head of Sport Gary Newbon throughout the 1970's had to fight tooth and claw to get any racing from the region on World of Sport especially during football season as ATV covered a huge area but for their size only had very limited OB video facilities. Gary was a big racing fan but the 1970's were a great time for Football in the Midlands and Star Soccer (which was distributed internationally by ITC) took priority. Speaking of which, if you go to Football forums online you will see ATV Football Commentator Hugh Johns has had his work very positively reevaluated in recent years. Gary pleaded with Central Television to keep Hugh Johns on as their main commentator when ATV lost their franchise in 1981 but it was not to be. In retrospect, a big mistake.
@@BritishRaceCaller This is information Money can’t Buy.Thank you so much for this.Its incredibly Interesting.
Yes, a wonderful insight into TV sport broadcasting history. I note Gary Newbon is also in the credits as having commentated on the Speedway. Terrific memory of that era and the Kenny Carter tragedy.
@@alanbrown3015 Thank you so much.
@@HorseRacingLegends you are welcome! I knew all this info would be appreciated by someone, some day!
@@BritishRaceCaller Yes it’s appreciated and incredibly interesting to know what was going on.
The great dickie davies, and world of sport, GREAT DAYS.
The Best.
great vid and memories,fred dineage aka alan partridge, as coogan based AP on FD did a great show i loved as a quiz gambit based on blackjack
Glad you enjoyed it
Coogan based AP on Richard Madeley, he used to be on Granada Reports in the late 80s when Madeley was there.
John francone, my favourite.
The Greatest Jockey.
Magic Days of World of Sport and remember the ITV 7 only a little boy my father putting my 10p on the horses and still enjoying the racing today
Great memories
World of Sport had nowhere near the rights that Grandstand did, and had to fill in with all sorts of stuff that was considered a joke even at the time. But rights for racing were more evenly divided, and ITV made it into the core of the show.
And it did it very well. I know John McCrirrick could go too far, but he did get across the excitement of the betting, which racing on BBC rather played down.
Thanks for these posts.
Yes he was great for Racing in my opinion.Both Channels we’re Superb.
@@HorseRacingLegends Yeah, I liked BBC racing too. Re McCrirrick, Jamie Reid in one of his excellent books was positive about him as being (IIRC) sincere and consistent in his views.
@@chrismanners9091 John was Brilliant.Look how much we miss him now.Says it all.
Loved the itv 80 s racing theme also funny how itv showed only 3 races on boxing day card remember bbc sometimes only showed 3 on Cheltenham festival Tuesday because of budget.
Great memories I forgot about that.Thank you so much.
That glorious music at 2:02 - someone out there must have a full copy of it.
Great Music.
The 1982 King George VI Chase meeting
Sea pigeon ❤❤❤
@@wayneburton4172 My all time Favourite Horse.
World of Sport's theme music was certainly one of the best. Today's horse racing television coverage is just a pale imitation of the halcyon days of the 1960s. They just don't come any better than John Rickman, Tony Cooke, Ken Butler and Raleigh Gilbert.
Agreed 100 pc.
I was watching racing the other day and they had a few races from Ireland, I thought the Irish commentator was very good .
Oh looks like I’m first 😅.. I’ll have a wee neb shortly , looks good whenever you see Dickie Davies 👌
👍🏴
You’re The Man.Everyone is on it Hopefully.
@@HorseRacingLegends making a batch of tattie scones right now , you can’t buy them here and I learned from a TH-cam tutorial n turns out I’m fkn great at it - same with Lorne/Square sausages .. get in !
👍🏴
@@jaymacgee_A_Bawbag_Blethering Those Videos get a Million Views and mine get about a Hundred lol.I had a Roll n Bacon with an Egg and Tattie Scone on it Yesterday.Cracking it was.
@@HorseRacingLegends Scottish Caviar that ! Tasty ✊
👍🏴
@@jaymacgee_A_Bawbag_Blethering Can’t beat it.A Roll and Black Pudding is good as well.Do you live in England ?
Proud Tarquin should have kept the race imho.
Agreed.
Good to see this old footage, never seen it before. Nice old footage of the Noble Lord. Am I right in saying that John Oaksey's last programme on Channel 4 Racing was from Market Rasen when he seemed to pause or stumble? I don't remember seeing him presenting after that.
I’m not sure about that.
At 3:41, surely that's not future football manager and Peterborough United FC owner Barry Fry on the right in the sheepskin coat is it ?
lol.
lol.
Great memories. I wondered, did John Penny continue his career with ITV and Channel 4 without ever being in-shot?
@@theracingdemon3141 One for you @Britishracecaller.
This is a very long answer to a simple question...
Of all the commentators we have discussed, I think Raleigh Gilbert and John Penney would be the two who would thrive the most in today’s multi-media world.
Raleigh was the first to merge racecourse commentating in to with his TV style. He got a lot of push back but stuck to his guns. Everyone owes him a huge debt and if more commentators had Raleigh’s work ethic and near obsession level of wanting to call races better, we would have more great commentators, today. I can certainly go into this more if wanted.
Of all the people I have known in my life, I wish I had known Raleigh with the wisdom that only comes with age.
John Penney first started filling in for Peter O’Sullevan and Clive Graham in 1966-1969 and in those days David Coleman (latterly Frank Bough) would often throw an in-vision link to him on Grandstand. He was occasionally seen on ITV Racing in the 1970’s but also wrote some racing articles for TV Times with a picture of him and his face regularly appeared in The Sporting Life. However, he regularly appeared on Anglia Television in the 1970’s and was the special guest on Thames Television’s “The David Nixon Show” in August 1977 which was networked on ITV. His photo also regularly appeared in the IBA’s Broadcasting books in the 1970’s.
Appearance wise, in my mind’s eye (and remember I was a kid) he had the presence of a guardsman. Stiff back, shoulders high, but he was very friendly. Not a dour person at all. I can see him now in a Panama hat in summer or a flat cap in bad weather with a quilted jacket in the commentary box at Newmarket, a box of Castella’s next to his race card and a set of Zeiss 10x40 Binoculars to hand. We spent several afternoons in his white BMW sheltering from the rain down the course at Newmarket when they had two commentators.
If you indulge me, I think John would love the racing media landscape today as he worked multiple jobs for practically his entire 40 year career.
In about 1957 after his failed NH training career, he started with Raceform and then in 1958 joined BRARCO, the forerunner of RTS/Racetech as a racecourse commentator. He told me it was Allen Clarke (former BBC Radio Football commentator alongside Brian Moore in the early 1960’s) who recommended him to BBC Radio but I have read it was Cliff Morgan, anyway as a result John got his first radio job in 1960 at Thirsk calling the Thirsk Hunt Cup won by Mystery for their Northern Service. In 1962, he started at The Sporting Life writing previews and reports so it would not have been uncommon for John in a month to work for BBC Radio in the North, The Sporting Life, Raceform and BRARCO!
However, Peter Bromley and Michael Seth-Smith had BBC National Radio tied up but in 1966 he joined the BBC Radio team for the Grand National (and except for his time as primary commentator at ITV) called the race most years until 1997. The same year he started filling in for Peter O’Sullevan or Clive Graham on BBC Television and would continue until 1969 when at the end of that year he joined ITV Sport (Raleigh Gilbert replaced him as a stand in on the BBC.)
When Tony Cooke stood down in late 1972, John was hired as primary commentator with Raleigh as secondary commentator. John had seniority but except for the Derby and the Oaks looking back they shared a lot of big races, and it was not a heated rivalry from what I can tell. One reason for this is although he lived near me in East Anglia, a lot of his work for Raceform and The Sporting Life was based in the North and Scotland. So, if an ITV7 was from (say) Catterick and Sandown, it often made more sense for John to cover the three races from Catterick versus the four from Sandown and so on.
I think he finished with the Sporting Life in about 1984 but was still racecourse commentating on minor meetings in 1995 and doing Raceform until at least 1993.
At the end of 1980, John was replaced by Graham Goode who had been a holiday fill-in on ITV since 1973. I have never worked out quite why - but John was a family man and shortly grandkids would be on the way. I know ITV interviewed Julian Wilson, Graham Goode and Derek Thompson. Of course, Derek joined as a presenter in 1981 in preparation for Ken Butler to turn 60 in 1982 and retire. Certainly, in his first year at ITV, Derek did commentate on the odd race. I cannot believe John was stood down because of lack of commentating skills!
However, John also had quite a career on BBC Local Radio as Racing Correspondent for BBC Radio Cambridgeshire and BBC Radio Essex well into the 1990’s again. His last call on Channel 4 was on Cambridgeshire weekend in 1993.
An amazing career embracing every single medium available at the time at the same time. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the commentating career of Hugh Johns has recently been re-evaluated very positively by football fans. It is high time the career of John Penney was as well.
@@BritishRaceCaller That’s an incredible insight in John Penny and Raleigh Gilbert.Noel Tyrrel contacted me a couple of years ago to get some recordings of Raleigh and I sent him some.Have you ever spoken to Noel about what you know.? He was trying to get stuff together to do a Book about Raleigh.He’s very nice to talk to.Thank you so much for all your information and I will keep delving into my collection to see what I can find.My Channel is not a Monetized one.I just do it for a Hobby and to keep the memories of the Great Days alive.Thank you. Gordon HRL.
@@HorseRacingLegends Noel and I have had many many hours talking about Raleigh! A unique man, who lived on his nerves, loved a party, lived in a nice part of Hammersmith but ultimately a singular figure. He would get so nervous, you did not want to be around him an hour before commentating. But beforehand and after, he was very different. He drilled into me the idea of homework and prep like no other.
Thank you for all you do to keep the past alive.
@@BritishRaceCaller Yes fail to prepare and prepare to fail.Its inevitable.
Thanks for posting. Some of the ladies are OK on ITV now, but the men, apart from Luke , are pants. Weaver will have you in Carey Street if you listen to him.
Yes it’s not the same now.
I agree with what you say ... and Luke Harvey is terrific. Francesca Cumani is ... well ... a joy too !
@@keithf_ Yes some of them are good.Richard Hoiles is World Class and so was Simon Holt.
Chamberlain licking every ones backside gets right up my nose. and they have had the same ads for PP for years.
@@galdessa1 Yes they need to watch the old bbc at learn how to be heard and not seen.
Proud Tarquin and John Lawrence were robbed.
Yes definitely
Itv have always been miles better in racing coverage then the bbc.
Yes Miles.
Who rode lab test in the race .the jockey never tried
Yes that was a disgrace.
@HorseRacingLegends who was jockey please
@@allangreenley9901 I don’t know.
@@HorseRacingLegends
Okay .someone might know and reply
@@allangreenley9901 Yes possibly
Still miss the C4 gang, its now just a shadow of what it was. Some Godawful decisions to book Chamberlin instead of Nick Luck and gthat dozey twerp Chapman. Also hate seeing everyone have to strain their necks lookign upto Chamberlin now they all have to stand up. Absolutely awful TV.
Yes all full of self importance
That horse should have kept the race,the dickler was not touched .
Agreed.
@37:53 - the jump into the age of imagistic TV run by marketeers is painful and jarring... Insincere forced positivity, fake exaggerated enthusiasm, projected assertion of authority.
No longer are you being spoken to as a fellow fan of sport, but as a target to be manipulated.
Yes you are 100 pc right.
The late great Lester Piggott there talking to the Brough Scott. I remember Ed Chamberlin saying something about he didn't understand why they stopped him presenting (I can't remember his exact words).
No I have never heard that story.
@@HorseRacingLegends they did not stop him presenting. It was his choice. Amazing Ed would say that when he could just ask Brough, himself.
Yeah, I never remenber Lester being so talkative, He must have liked Brough.
@@wacmedia Yes I’m sure he did.
@@wacmedia Yes I’m sure he did.
Gina Bryce was woefully underused as part of the C4 team, top host who deserved far more days presenting than she did.
Agreed.
John Oaksey's mount would never have been thrown out these days.
No never.
Itv racing is crap by comparison.
Agreed.