How to Paint Tiger Tanks | Tank Chats Special | The Tank Museum
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 29 ก.ย. 2024
- Tank Chats playlist • Tank Chats from The Ta... *See Tiger 131 at Tiger Day X - tankmuseum.org... * Before opening the Tiger Tank Collection, the Jagdtiger and Tiger II needed to be re-painted. Find out everything you ever needed to know about the RAL system, as Curator David Willey takes you through the process of painting a Tiger Tank.
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This video features the King Tiger, Jagdtiger and Tiger 1 and briefly shows the other tiger tanks in The Tiger Collection. #tankmuseum #tanks #tigertank #tankchats The Tank Museum E-Newsletter sign-up: mailchi.mp/e6f...
Who knew a man sitting on a step amongst shelving talking about paint codes would be the most interesting part of my day ... tank museum ... always excellent
I know !!!
I agree. Who knew paint could be so interesting ?
Reminds me of as semi joke video The Chieftain made, provided running commentary on watching paint dry, which apparently comes up as something he could make interesting or as a request somewhat regularly in comments
@SnowmanCA saw that as well. Not as informative but fun to watch.
This guy is trying to give James May a run for his money as the worlds most interesting boring person lol
This video couldn't have come at a better time, my brother and I are researching diffrent aspects of the battle of Kursk for a diorama we are getting ready to build, you folks at the Tank Museum just made my day...
Awesome attention to detail. Respect!
It's always a good day when you have to chose between Tank Chats and TheChieftain.
nice, heard a second voice saying 7017 scared me a bit
They did it because David said the wrong number. When you listen to it carefully David says RAL 7012, whereas the correct number is 7017. They edited in the voice to speak over him and say 7017.
I'm guessing his handwriting made 2 and 7 look similar!
I find it funny that there is 131 subscribers where the 131 Tiger was in the video so much
I believe the colours applied by the Luftwaffe used another colour code. RLM , or Reichsluftfahrtministerium - Ministry of Aviation. I always have problems with the correct colours when building plastic model kits for land vehicles and airplanes. Not just German stuff but in general. There are a LOT of sites where they give you the closest colours using Humbrol , Tamiya, Revell etc .etc. paints but they don't always agree with eachother.
The RLM farbton (colour tones) range are a subset of the RAL standard for 1927 and tend to have two-number designations, but are listed within RAL charts as well. Look up black, white, (basic ) red, etc. and the numbers correspond in interesting ways.
Since WWII, the range has been added to, subtracted from, unified and made into subsets again (such as for roadside poles, lights, signs, etc.).
Then there is the attempted Europe-wide standardisation process that's still on-going.
In a similar way, the old British Standard paints (always only required to be accurate to 10%) were modified, added to, subtracted from, re-numbered, reduced to suggestions and then abandoned (but still available from Dacrylate), and are one of the things not re-introduced after the recent break-away from European standards.
I can only imagine the curators 20 years from now will be saying you did it all wrong.
Undoubtably, love your channel btw
We'll be sure to make another video about it, when the inevitable happens!
And here's me thinking you just shot Gummy Bears.... Who'd a thunk it!?
@@nathanfagan9881 Shooting Gummy Bears? What a Barbarian!
Shooting Drop Bears, now that is a different story. Damn things breed like rabbits and attack tourists to the detriment of our Aussie Tourism industry and the economy.
When paint scrapes are analysed with mass spectrometers. It's the end of the lines to determine which paints/pigments/oxides were used. So in 20 years they will be thanking the current lads and lasses for their attention to detail, while some original samples still exist.
Modellers and wargamers note: Vallejo Model Colours have RAL numbers printed, when appropriate, at the bottom of their labels. Excellent video.
The museum should start selling RAL colour sets at the merch store
+Xiren Seo
Standard RAL sets you can get from any decent paint company, but actually researching and printing (!) correct WW2 vintage scheme's might be a tad more challenging for a museum. You can only hope another company want to do the effort and then sell their products instead.
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL-Farbe
You can look them all up in german Wikipedia
Xíren Seo, Vallejo, Tamiya, and AK, all sell very good representations of the RAL colors for scale model building, Vallejo even has a series of paint called Panzer Aces...
Nice, if I ever need to get the set I now know where, thanks for sources.. Though museums collabing with idk Nippon paint or smth to make these sets would still be good business XD
@Lassi Kinnunen If you had modelling kits, glue, several brushes, the appropriate paint tins all in a single box ready to go they would literally walk out the door.
"For tiger " written on a that tin of paint makes me smile. Like it's for the extra bed room or the living room.
Like the scientist telling you: "For tiger only, don't use dunkelgelb for the Sherman, dammit!"
I know, made me smile when I noticed that. How many people can say their full sized tins of paint are for a Tiger or Panther...
@@stevie65able Carole Baskin?
The only time straight men will argue about paint colors.
Well, many straight men known more about pleasing a tank than about pleasing a woman.
There's a t-shirt slogan in there somewhere...
A wise man told me once “ women are like tanks hot and sexy with lots of men inside” but yes when it comes to paint on my Panzerkampfwagon VI Tiger yes I am known to hit people for not getting me the right color
PickelJars ForHillary 😁So true.
Straight man without any taste at least. xD
8:36, now that's what I call a selfie stick.
Add to that a cringe factor of 1000 out to 2 km.
*SLOW DOWN SHERMAN TANK LET ME HIT YOU!!!!*
mine is bigger than yours
th-cam.com/video/5YPZdScky4I/w-d-xo.html
@@juremv7
But yours is on the bottom rather than top
IS-3: Hold My Beer
Very good and accurate video. Awesome to see you're trying to shed light on all the inaccuracies and myths of old. Couple of things I'd like to add that I often see model makers asking about or making mistakes with (not everyone cares and that is perfectly fine).
The two-tone RAL 7021/7017 panzer grey/brown scheme was not entirely discontinued in 1940 as you said; StuG III Ausf.B were still being painted in it at the factory in March 1941. There are good photos of this. Seems like it was continued on tank destroyers/assault guns for some odd reason. After March '41, StuGs were all painted in grey (until tropical schemes and dunkelgelb were introduced).
The RAL 8000/7008 (Tropen 1) and RAL 7027/8020 (Tropen 2) schemes were not exclusive to North Africa. Southern Russia was also considered a tropical region and so many tanks there were delivered and repainted in these schemes, likely including Tigers that were at Kursk.
Those two tropical schemes were often applied in the factory, meaning that they often would not chip to panzer grey underneath but instead to red oxide primer, as no grey is underneath in the first place. There are some exceptions, such as earlier vehicles delivered to North Africa, and some later ones too. But the early ones were usually just RAL 8000, and the later examples are mostly Panzer IV Ausf.F2/G which were painted over their grey with Tropen 2.
This also meant that some tanks painted in tropical schemes in the factory got diverted to other places...a good example is StuG III Ausf.F/8 and Initial production StuG III Ausf.G, which were delivered to Kharkov in the winter of 1942/43 in Tropen 2 desert camo...in the middle of winter, which looks badass in photos.
Most tanks also got two- or three-tone factory-applied camouflages starting in August 1944. This continued to the last days of the war and it well documented. No nothing every left a factory in red primer...it's a myth. No they didn't run out of paint either. That's also well documented. Gun barrels are also not red oxide primer but a dark grey heat-resistant lacquer primer. These factory camouflages were standardized and were done to reduce factors like deployment times, tanks never being properly camouflaged, and to reduce fuel use when thinning down paint for camo application and work depots. It was a production streamlining thing, just like the elimination of zimmerit around the same time.
Additionally, the idea that "field-applied" camouflages were done literally in a field by tank crews is incorrect. It was done at the depot level with proper equipment and work crews. Winter whitewash camouflages were often literal crew jobs though, and were usually done really shitty with paintbrushes rather than spray guns.
Feel free to add more stuff below, anyone :)
My little baby is all growed up
Here is also an interesting article, not as scientific but with a lot of original color pictures:
ftr.wot-news.com/2015/02/24/german-camouflage-and-tactical-markings-part-i-by-agarestretiak/
Why don't you just adopt me already Adam
Because you are too high maintenance dude. But seriously Evan, fantastic write up, much appreciated.
Man, you're a wizard...
The only channel on TH-cam that can get me to watch an 11 minute video about historical paints.
Hello!
You surely hit the spot with this one!
From a modeller that's also a bit of a colour freak: excellent presentation!
Thank you David for another insightful video.
Thank you Subaru for watching
Just imagine the usual reaction of a german to '60 shades of grey':
"What??? Only 60?"
I've never watched a 10+ minute video on paint. But this was very interesting and extremely informative. Thank you very much. Can't wait for next year to come to Tank fest :)
It reminds me of a video on the production of aluminium cans.
"The cold enthusiasm this man has for the production of beverage cans is amazing."
"I wish I was as passionate about something as this man is about soda cans."
Now here I am, thinking:
"The best part of my day will have been watching paint dry and hearing someone talk over it."
@@klobiforpresident2254 I think I saw that one
Great! Now I can finally paint the Tiger 1 in my garage historically accurate.
Glad to see the Jagdtiger no longer in that hideous grey/lemon polka dot yellow scheme.
But it’s a shame that the nice camo on the King Tiger was replaced with a plain tan, even though it is more historically accurate, still not as disappointing as what happened to their Matilda 2
Your Average pull I think replacing inaccurate camouflage is as important as dispelling tank myths. The only reason some of these museum camouflages exist is due to a lack of information.
Depends if your focus is on pure accuracy or upon relating a feeling. Most museums focus heavily upon accuracy, but if you want people to understand the true terror of coming up against a Tiger or Jagdtiger in the field then giving them a slightly inaccurate camo may work better for your purposes.
Polka Dots? Was it a Forming up tank? Oh wait that was for US 8th Bomber Formations.
As a paint sprayer myself I found this very interesting. The colour of a vehicle or anything for that matter is very important because it's the first thing you see. It's nice to know that the tanks we looked at in Bovington were as authentic as possible. I remember seeing a Spitfire up close for the first time in the 70's. It was painted with shiny gloss paint and the markings were wrong too.
Loving the bit of Siegfried's funeral march at the end there.
The mention of museums having used to fit a story reminded me of the Stug III in Bovington that was painted up to represent a German vehicle, and has since been restored to its correct Finnish colors and markings it sported during the war.
Well done ... I have seen the collection in real ... looks so great ... best wishes from Germany
Great info..
I just purchased the correct ral coded paints from Mig Ammo for modelling..
It was like winning the lottery when I saw my numbers come up lol 👌
they look magnificent. i hope that one day i will be able to go to england and visti the tank museum
Who would have thought watching paint dry was as fascinating....
Watching paint dry is how to prevent a war. Just apply a new camo scheme each and every week.
"Sorry general, we can't make a push, the paint isn't dry yet."
James P I’ll volunteer as tribute than I’ll go break into the chieftain and centurion and test if the german cats are as great as I hear
You should check out Chieftain's video about paint drying.
th-cam.com/video/jIPem1EMw2s/w-d-xo.html
We have the same issue in the heritage railway world, locomotives which (some) have been built in the early 1900's have seen 3-4 Railway companies own the locomotive so the decision to paint it in an earlier more glamorous livery compared to liveries it carried in the 1950's & 60's where there is still memory for these engines in those liveries...This also goes for the stations and the wagons and coaches the engines pull.
I'd prefer to see the most colorful schemes on a railroad.
The 70** ral numbers are quite popular these days when it comes to home building and interior. Never knew it was German. It still is widely used today.
You might not notice when you see RAL, but when it says "Reichsausschuss für Lieferbedingungen" those compound nouns should leave no doubt.
Or in English , ''Imperial Commission for Delivery Terms and Quality Assurance'' . I would like to say I got it from a straight German-English translation, however I googled and Wiki gave me one...
@@Emdee5632
That's about the straight translation though.
Those RAL colours are not accurate to the originals.
I think my room is in 7015
The amount of details and presentation of knowledge to the public is extraordinary.
Hi David, can you please look
into making the RAL colours you talked about in this video available as a PDF
download for us modellers, just one page with the colours patches shown and
labelled. Thanks
The Way the Museum keeps these tanks in the top condition is a credit to the men and women, who have done these weapons of war justice to factory spec. That is quiet a super achievement from a basic thing like paint had to be right, or don’t do it at all is remarkable to a detail many wouldn’t notice.
Wow
As a modeler
Best video I’ve ever scene
Thank you so much
3:56 did anyone else hear the weird electronic voice saying 7017 in the background?
Yes!
Probably some kind of electronic feedback from the microphone.
They did it because David said the wrong number. When you listen to it carefully David says RAL 7012, whereas the correct number is 7017. They edited in the voice to speak over him and say 7017.
I'm guessing his handwriting made 2 and 7 look similar!
That was creepy!
3:55 the demons came through there for a sec
Yeah I noticed that, really weird!
They did it because David said the wrong number. When you listen to it carefully David says RAL 7012, whereas the correct number is 7017. They edited in the voice to speak over him and say 7017.
I'm guessing his handwriting made 2 and 7 look similar!
yeah i suspected that
They're Grrrrrrreeaattt! Sorry, I'll leave now....
Lol that's funny
Don't let the door hit you in the tail on the way out.
0:59 Whoa, a REAL (and accurate) Swastika over the German Panzer exhibit at the museum in the 60s? lol no way that would fly today. XD
I've picked up a Tiger I model to do in the 131 scheme, seeing as Tiger Day is coming up soon, and the RAL 8000/7008 scheme is helpful.
I can only assume the paints were faded from their original colours from reference photos I can get my hands on, as the green/brown colour is a lot darker than in the photos.
Awesome comprehensive video I love watching this stuff as a history buff and I could see how this would be very useful for modelers trying to get their colors right
Great job tank museum
The two "desert" schemes were not intended for Africa only. They were also used in southern Russia. In fact, at the start of Tiger H production, a new Tiger was more likely to be painted in these schemes than in grey.
Hello Mr Byrden!
Nice of Jean Luc Picard to voice over the colour code number mistake!
Very very interesting video. Anything from the tank museum is worth a look and this is great
I agree that it's important to use real camouflage schemes but I don't think that every tank has to be in the colour scheme it wore originally. I don't think there's anything wrong with using colour schemes to portray different vehicles to give a wider range of different schemes on display as long as the vehicle fits the colours.
Awesome video as always. I actually watched the video with my Lifecolour German WWII Tanks Set 1 which had the famous RAL 7028 Dunkelgelb as well as RAL 8020 Gelbbraun , RAL 8017 Rotbraun and RAL 6003 Olivgrun that I used on my 1/35 TIGER I . MANY thanks especially for the Info on Tiger 131 and her original paint scheme in Africa I had always assumed it was the RAL 8020 Gelbbraun so thanks for correcting this.
I love the tank museum. I'm really excited to go to tiger day and do a video on it.
The Landship b
AMAZING! Please more videos like this about best tanks in the world :)
Surely a Tiger Tank should have black stripes?
And aluminum alloy rims?
I think any of the Tiger tnaks look the best if they had orange and black, like a true tiger would. Would make them look badass and stand out
Yo dawg, I heard you like tigers, so we put a tiger in your tiger, so now you can tiger while you're tigering.
This ain't pimp my ride guys..
not even in girls und panzers :p
No - just a yellow one in front and a brown one on the other side...
Fascinating, thank you for all the great work you, the museum and all the volunteers do to keep history alive.
I take it that the RAL system also applied to the German warships, or am I wrong in assuming that?
I was there yesterday and had a wonderful time absolute incredible museum
Don't forget scale modelers. This is FULL scale tones. Smaller scales require the paint to be toned down to get the same effect as the full scale vehicles. This is where it gets hard and at the same time interesting for scale modelers to get right. Scale, light, time, operational theatre, method of application, concentration of paint, what diluting medium was used and weathering are all factors to consider when trying to get your scale model paint scheme just right.
Incredibly invaluable! Yet again The Tank Museum is an invaluable source of information that had eluded and caused us so much derision amongst the ranks of us modellers that at last we have it from horses mouth.. Now there is a way forward without doubt..
The question in the title is not answered how did they paint it back then ?
Spraying ? Or brush ?
Fascinating subject, very informative. Thank you!
Wow. That was pretty impressive. Sounds like you would find the best made Tigers ever seen combat at Bovington with such effort to be precisely or more accurat than the germans then with their supply shortage day in day out.
Fells great how you keep that heritage in good and realistic shape following the latest scientific research results and you are not afraid to talk about mistakes might been made and to correct them even at high expenses and efforts that it takes cause a new correct painting is not done by 3 men at one saturday evening, it takes ages to research, plan, prepare, refund before even one can start to clean chasiss, sandpaper, grounding, ... A lot of effort no one can really see except the few living survivors.
Huge thank you for all these re questioning of tiny details everybody believes to know but does not know anything.
And I like this kind of new minimalistic perspective inside your warehouse between the shelves . Just you and your book telling that tiny, forgotten story about "RAL" an acronym that only a tiny permille of germans could explain as good as you did. I simply knew that RAL is a base for colour identification but never thought about that it is "typical german". And of cause your German pronounciation is damn good + right emphasis. Hard work to get it right to that level many people won't see or recognice.
Good luck for your goals in this "campaign".
Awesome editing thanks to the editor
Thanks to all of you for your hard work maintaining these big cats!
Love the episodes where things gets just a bit technical. ^_^
Glad you enjoyed it! We just wind David up and let him go.
Old 131, as intimidating as ever.
Imagine the Germans in the battle of Flers-Courcelette staring down not the world's first tanks, but such a beast.
"Sir, our field guns glance right off! Our artillery barrage did no damage!"
Maybe not quite that extreme, but still.
Thank you so much! I've just started painting some Germans (among others) for Flames of War. This will be really helpful!
Amazing, I love the tank museum, I done one of there days where you get to ride in a Type 59/ leopard 1, drive a tank, go inside a tank and have a tour of the conservation shed. This information just makes your bond go deeper as you understand why this are done that way. Great stuff cant wait to see more!!!
Easily one of the most fascinating and interesting videos from the Tank Museum - thank you Mr. Willey. Great subject, great presentation.
I use the ww2 German camo scheme
RAL 7028 DUNKELGELB
RAL 8017 ROTBRAUN SCHOCOLADEN
RAL 6004 OLIVGRUN
RAL 8000 GRUNBRAUN
RAL 7027 SANDGRAU
RAL 8020 GELBBRAUN
THE SANDGRAU 7027 IS THE GERMAN YELLOW THAT PEOPLE SEEM TO CALL IT NOWADAYS LIKE A DESERT SAND
theres a slight difference between 8020 and 7027 tinge darker you wouldn't even notice! I'm an armour modeler and use life colours they have the most accurate and researched RAL colours available I know AK international have tries the real colours from paint chips but life colour has the RAL documents used in 1940 to 1944
Dunkel grau, dunkel gelb (?), basic colours. Even red lead. Cheapest basic paints. In the field any colour that you could find that gave you camouflage was suitable. Probably the easiest was winter scheme, whitewash. Anything to disguise your outline
Thanks for this 👍🇳🇿
Fascinating topic - well done.
Glad to see that they’re striving to be as accurate as possible and fixing mistakes made in the past.
This is why Panzer Grey RAL 7021 is not faded like on the Tamiya boxes. I have seen color photos of Pz III, Pz II in Poland and France and they are dark as hell, almost as dark as the Panzer Uniforms the Germans wore. Lovely work at 3:56
Did the panzer 38t of 1939 and 1940 ( who fought in the Polish campaign and the Western campaign of May 1940 ) have panzer-grey and brown camouflage paint schemes or were they solid panzer-grey ?
To me, the Big Cats are like modern German Sports cars: overpriced, impractical, unnecessarily powerful, but damn do they ever look good. The "Porsche Turret" Tiger II is by far the best, aesthetically.
All I want for Christmas is a set of KSG 73/800/350 tracks in 1/16th scale for my RC King Tiger😢
Need to get here ! I have been to Russia a few times recently, excellent museums, Moscow and St Petersburg and Munster, Germany,
Thanks for tihs. I am doing a Tiger 1 Ausf E, and I was wondering which of the many schemes I could do it in. If anyone wants to know a good match for German armour schemes, Hataka, from Poland, have this amazing series of paints, Early and Late WW2 German Army AFV Paint Set. It has to be some of the best model paint I have ever used.
David Willey has my undivided attention again. His talks are so good I wish they wouldn't end.
Its a shame you didnt have the SturmTiger, it would have been the complete collection of Tigers.
Kubinka had the Ferdinand Tiger (P), JagdTiger, Tiger B, SturnTiger and Tiger E on display next to each other in 2015 when i was there
Awesome...... Would love more like this
Great video - among modellers, the right color has always been a matter of debate, so I think something like this clears it up a little. Also on that note, getting those original RAL color swatches might be a very good idea, no matter which brand of paint one use.
I thought (as a scale modeler) that using 'original' RAL colours is not representative. This is because looking at a 1/35 Tiger from 4 feet is the same as looking at a full size one at (let's say) 200 feet. At that distance the colour shade looks different.
I wasn't so sure about watching this when l started. But once l did l couldn't stop! Excellent video! Thank you.
You really cant go by RAL numbers as gospel truth. The shortages and even badly tinted paints units received kept them from using the right stuff. Even England suffered from this greatly. So everybody that paints with the mentality of "letter of the law" can be wrong.
10:03 I have found Ammo by Mig & Ak Interactive makes good quality acrylic model paints & uses both the RAL & german names on the bottles for easy reference.
This is an interesting example of just how much is lost in history and war. It's the most common color, painted on everything from boxes to tanks, by a country known for its meticulous record keeping, and eye-witnesses are still alive- yet we don't know the formula.
Meanwhile I have learned that the Germans today use a very different method to paint their tanks, or at least the Leopard 2. All the colours (NATO green - brown - black) are applied at the factory and each tank gets exactly the same paint scheme.
That’s why tank modelers have relatively easy job, poor ship modelers, with ships the situation is way more complicated and difficult.
Can anyone confirm how to get in touch with Colour Right Paints, Wimborne, Dorset referenced in the video? Firm looks to have ceased trading? Tel number not recognised
Hi, I am building a 1/32 scale Panzer 4 and I wanted to know if they where painted red oxide primer in the factory before putting on the sand yellow color,
Yes they were red oxide underneath the camouflage colours. The gun barrel was primed in a very dark grey heat resistant primer though, not red.
R.A.L. stands for............ just look below, I'm not touching that one with a 10 foot pole!
Model makers generally aren't interested in factory fresh paint schemes. They want to replicate the faded, filthy, oxidized paint seen on the outside of that optics box, not the pristine paint seen on the inside. 9:18
I just found that there are discussions of the changing shades of RAL 7028: www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/showthread.php?t=780827&page=3
Paint-em " PINK " & Stick a BIG FLOWER DOWN the BARREL !!! YYZ - Planker .
Right after the war, Renault cars were painted yellow, because of the surplus of paint for the Afrika Korps. Maybe the cars were only painted with leftover primer?
He's sensible this bloke.
Kudos. Finally i know how to properly paint my tigers. They were really unhappy till now with all this rawring and biting. They were just painted wrong, simple. Thanks.
Hmm, I would have thought that David Willey, as the museum's curator, would have a bigger office.
It is bigger, but it's FULL of books and an assortment of Museum paraphernalia. One day there might be room for a film camera in there.
At 7:51 you say zimmerit was causing fires. This is not true. Zimmerit is non flammable. The problem was that the tankers didn't know that, and it made them feel unsafe, so they lobbied to have it discontinued.
Well early King Tiger in just one factory paint is ok, but with jagdtiger you could do something more interesting...
Hmm... What about that red rust inhibitor they ( apparently? ) used as a substitute for the 8017 when the shortages started kicking in?
Maybe if ya'll hadn't chosen to paint over their original colours in the first place there wouldn't have BEEN a fkin problem.
All tigers should be coated with tiger animal print, all crew should wear fashion hugo boss animal print jumpsuits and the tank commander should wear a tiger head fur cap, like a roman aquilifer.