I found out recently that the voice actor for wenduag also voices malady in divinity original sin 2 and also the narrator for baldurs gate 3. Very talented.
I like that you include their personality, writing, dialogue, and voice acting. It really bums me seeing people who do game guides and completely gut out the artistic and narrative elements of the game to do it. You treat the party members like people and not units and it baffles me how rare that it is for guides in this genre.
"She gets larger. She becomes a full blown Dragon, allowing you to mount her. Aivu provides your only opportunity to mount a Dragon." I'll get my Bard...
I cant say im surprised that most of the Lich's compsnions that are bottom tier. I say this as a lich guy myself. I only wish that if they were silent with no dialogue, that they were also silent as they like to groans as if they're generic mindless undead.
I actually don’t mind it at all. If they actually had decent builds, or at least were more customizable, like respeccing at a lower levers that would be enough. As is they just feel kinda terrible mechanics wise and also from a role playing perspective. I guess they needed to be needed because lich was so overpowered
@@ashvandal5697 I feel like it should be somewhat switched, make them strong but souless beyond your will and make it so you lose companions over time. I say this loving all the companions normally.
I feel that lich zacharias explains it in one of his dialogues when you really question everything before handing him the wand, with nenio in your party. She asks bulk questions He stares at her, then comments to you that you should kill her otherwise you'll miss out on one of the best benefits of being unread. silence. It made me laugh. But that implies that undead servants don't speak much at all. But it would be nice to have more dialogue. I just think it's a roleplay design.
Undead Champion felt more like an animal companion instead of a regular companion. Daeran's last loyalty quest has an ending where the inquisition lets him out on parole under your supervision.
It may not be the funniest way to play but i think thats the fantasy of undead companions they are usually mindless or atleast have dampened emotions which i why they dont care as much as others. I loved my lich for making companions that absolutly cannot go against him it made him feel more powerful.
It doesn't even have to be under your supervision, in the end I sacrificed myself and in ending slide it said that Daeren was free, with Liotr keeping an eye on him
Wenduag surpassed my expectations more than any other companion, though I wouldnt say she is my favourite. I think she is also very hard to justify for a good or neutral commander RP wise. Regill and Daeran are the two most tolerably evil characters, but Wenduag really is way beyond the pale. There are at least two occasions you are aware of her committing murder that are completely indefensible (the bar fight and the mongrel trader), and you know that she is completely depraved and consorting with demons from Hossila onwards. Camellia at least has a (not very convincing) excuse for her murders that you could pretend to find plausible RP wise. Also, she is actually insane, and whilst very evil, feels to me to be less wilfully evil and morally culpable than Wenduag. Wenduag feels like a character who could behave in a psychologically normal way and refrain from evil, but chooses not to. Camellia is obviously batshit and acting on a compulsion.
My Angel/Gold Dragon took the viewpoint that she has been trapped in caves forced to live off scraps and hunt living creatures to survive. Constantly surrounded by death and despair. It's unrealistic to expect that she would immediately adapt to society and cruel to execute her for circumstances outside of her control. Camellia on the other hand has no real excuse.
@@SlanderedGaming i've just finished my first playthrough of this game a while back and i have to say, this is the only game that makes me willfully want to (and did) kill my own companion by my own hands. I am usually pretty forgiving i these types of games, especially towards my own companions, but some people are just too far gone.
I played the game two times as a LE character.... Wenduag and Regill are both of my favorite and must haves in any parties. They both show definitions of evil. Evil for a *Lawful reason* and Evil for the sake of Power. With Wendu's romance you can make her be good with you, and thus maybe steer her towards a more lawful path. After all, its just the two of you, against the world.
Just a thought on Aivu: considering that dragons live for hundreds/thousands of years, their maturity stages are probably different. What maybe a long time for us humans maybe only be a fleeting moment in their lives. Take our own canine friends, most dogs are physically full sized by year 1-2, but are still considered puppies.
Yeah after hearing your comment and others like it I do think her lack of character development makes sense. It just makes me like her a little bit less than some of the other options.
As someone who has done the Daeran romance a couple of times if you are playing a non-evil mythic path and pick the right dialogue choices and triggers then you can spare Liotr, Liotr lets Daeran go after you vouch for him and you get a good ending
Yep. This is possible. You just have to have proven yourself reliable and good to Hawkblade, and then vouch for him. Probably doesn't work as Azata. But LG or NG should be able to persuade him.
@@shawngillogly6873 Actually it works very well as Azata, in my first playthrough going blind I got Daeran's best ending. The most important part for Daeran to be freed after his trial, is that HE likes and trusts you, and the dialog choices to earn that aren't in Lawful territory generally (especially the ones at his birthday party, the more chaos you create the better). What makes it hard to get that ending is that there are multiple moments when you need to choose the right dialogue options, and those are scattered throughout the game. But if you're flirty and playful with him from the start (which I was because I found him very charming), it will come quite naturally whatever your alignment.
Just a minor clarification here regarding Queen Galfrey: You don't need to play Aeon or Angel to romance her. You can play almost any mythic path in the early game (except something evil) and start the romance. Later on, when you can choose between new mythic paths, you can continue the romance as Gold Dragon or Legend. In my first playthrought I romanced her and started with the Azata mythic path and later changed it to Gold Dragon. Still at the end she joined my party and ascended with me. The only thing you have to make sure of is to not being chaotic by the late game and to wait for her at the end of act 3.
Which is kinda stupid because you have an opportunity for a surprise attack on enemy strong point but you have to wait for your mommy / waifu? And she is pissed because you won anyway.... Kinda feels like 500 years old 5 years old. And even though you cleansed lot of land, foiled deamons, have a standing army and rebuild a kingdom she strips you of your rank and blabber. I wish there is a mod for Hand of the Inheritor tells her to stfu.
It's always interesting how other players rate the companions. I think that it also depends on what class the main character has and whether he is more good or more evil. In my case, it's a mage (neutral good). So I need a melee fighter. This is where Seelah comes in handy. Also, I like her a lot. Lann is then the next character who isn't evil and is funny at the same time. With me he only has 3 levels as a monk. The remaining levels are hunters. I also need a good healer. I prefer Sosiel as a good character to Daeran. Ember and Arueshalae are also must sees for me. Simply because their stories fascinate me. If there was a living and good version of Staunton, I would definitely have taken him with me. But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to save him...
@@SlanderedGaming Interesting. Thanks for the information. I probably would never have found out, because somehow I always choose the path of the angel. I always end up playing role-playing games the way I would decide. Even if I really don't want to. That's why I only ever experience a small part of such games. Also because I decide when choosing a companion based on personality and not on skills. But I still enjoy it. 🙂
In a weird way I actually like the mostly silent lich companions. Also I think with the dragon while I haven't played the azata(?) path I think it makes a lot of sense that mentally she is still a child even though her body grows bigger, she is a dragon after all. Dragons age much slower, it would take her at least 26 years before she even becomes a juvenile with the mind of a juvenile. She needs to be at least 51+ years old before she becomes a young adult
Camellia is one of my favorites. I always kept her in my party and her romance arc with my good aligned character provided quite a bit of interesting dynamics between the two. My MC had a few moral dilemmas because of that. It was great for my roleplay.
Nenio is my pick for top for one big reason. During the 3rd confrontation with the game's real Big Bad, she's the only one to give them pause, pointing out that while Nenio's experiments are random and seemingly pointless, she's still learning things, and most importantly, hasn't hurt anyone else doing them. Also I love that if you're a Kitsune as well, one of the points you can bring up about it being bad she forgot herself is that she missed out on having a fluffy tail to curl up with on cold nights.
On that note of Daeran, I also agree and always found the two options you get to resolve his quest very unsatisfying. I really felt there should have been an option somewhere between "I'm going to murder this inquisitor that helped me stop an incredible evil" and "I am going to let a friend be arrested because they did something bad when they were a scared child they couldn't have known the consequences of". Like, I really wish there were another option to just be like "I understand your concerns, inquisitor. But Daeran is one of my most reliable allies. Many in the crusades were former criminals seeking repentance. He is no different, and has more than atoned for his crimes. He is under my protection and the inquisition will not be arresting him in my kingdom." At least something that changes it from having to attack the inquisitor and let him use the 'I guess I will have to defend myself', and making it so if he wants to take Daeran, he becomes the aggressor and you become the defender. Also, didn't know you could only romance Galfrey as Angel or Aeon, thought it was any good aligned mythic! Appreciate the info!
You can actually toe the line with Daeran between supporting him and trying to bring the best from him. Done correctly, you can stand up for him to the inquisition and he won't have to worry about defending himself. You also don't have to kill the Inquisitor.
There is a lawful ending to his questline which when certain conditions are fulfilled you don't have to kill Liotr or send Daeran to the prison, he basically gets on probation. The way to obtain it is a bit convoluted, but the same can be said about good endings for Trever, Lann, Wenduag or Greybor.
Sir, this is the first video that I've seen of yours. I have not played this game myself (this was a research video to determine whether or not I want to buy it), and I have to say that you did sway me. I truly appreciate your fair and honest assessment of these characters on tactical, aesthetic, and personal reasons. You mentioned several times that high ranking members of your list you didn't like the voice, but said that it fit, and still appreciated the character. I wish this sort of honest assessment was more common on TH-cam, social media, and all other walks of life in America.
Regill having no "personal" quest actually reflects his personality very well. He is just not bothered by any personal issues, he just doesn't give a shit and puts the success of the crusade above anything else, even himself. He is pure dedication and consideres himself and anyone else as just a tool for the greater cause
Even though my list would look a lot different, it’s always so much fun to see how other people would rank the companions! Great video!! Although I don’t think Camellia only fitting in to evil/neutral parties should be counted as a point against her. I think that makes her very distinct and forcing good characters to compromise a lot to keep her around makes things pretty interesting. I really love all of the main companions and I hope OwlCat expands on them in future DLC. The dungeon crawls are fun but the companions are what really makes this game for me.
Yup I think that's one of the reasons I liked Through the Ashes more than Inevitable Excess. In IE your companions almost never chimed in while TtA gives you two new companions with lots of dialogue. Owlcat needs to lean into their strengths.
@@SlanderedGaming I think my dream dlc would be one that gives you a fun quest to do before the final battle and afterwards have a big party where you and your companions all interact, like the citadel dlc from Mass Effect 3. I would kill for that with these characters lol
On my first playthrough I really liked Camellia. The fact that she weirdly looks a lot like my ex also helped in that regard, but like my ex they both betrayed me in the end and I had to dump them, This game is truly bigger than life.
Oh, I don't compromise on Cammy. In all my various-flavours-of-good playthrough - either Azata or Angel - she's dead before I leave Drezen. Most stylishly from my Dragonknight Sorcerer - blink, displacement, blur, Greater Invis, then just breathed on her a couple of times.
A lot of people seem to dislike Nenio alot. I personally love her amd she rarely leaves my party. She's like a younger Mordin Solus that doesn't have existential crisis after dooming an entire race
I personally compare Nenio with Patricia Tannis from Borderlands - two women with brilliant minds, a high desire for scientific pursuits and general knowledge, also weirdos in their own way.
EXACTLY. Lann, sniper wit a bow and a bro is like garrus, while nenio was like mordin. Thats why they 2 where always in my party, but Lann is number one.
For me, Daeren becomes one of my favorites, mostly due to the fact that he will almost ALWAYS have your back. He's much deeper than i think most people take him for
And he's MVP at healing (also commonly known as being Heal-slut), add mythic feat that allows Cure Wounds spells to be range spells and Mythic Channeling that allows to heal or deal damage twice of your charisma bonus, and he has loads of it.
My personal favorites, but I'm a newbie to the game: 1- Daeran. Yes, he's evil. Yes, he's obnoxious. But he's so damn hilarious and a really powerful healer. (Also, my favorite romance.) 2- Nenio. Powerful caster and I love her personality. She always makes me cackle with her banter. 3- Ember. She has loads of banter with other party members and her class is amazing once she's gotten some levels in! Honorable mention- Lann. I'm a sucker for his romance, even if it isn't as flashy as some others. I also like how reactive he is to what's going on. Least favorites 1- Camellia. There's evil and crazy, and then there's Camellia. She pushes it too far for me to tolerate her for long. 2- Wenduag. Nothing against her as a party member, but her personality utterly repulses me. 3- Finnean. Great concept, but he's not as talkative and reactive as I'd like. Also, I typically play casters or priests.
Well, I can't name for sure, who are my best favorites - On one hand we have damn hilarious trio of Daeran, Lann and Woljif, on the other - sweet pair of Regill and Greybor. Besides we have Ember, Nenio, Arueshalae and Seelah. But I would sympathize with your choice of least favorites, except for I would call Cami and Wendu openly hated characters for me - the former gave me unforgettable (and unforgivable) feeling I had when my employer pissed me with my salary, and the latter explains why American natives had such a fear before Wendigo.
A character like Finnean is my favorite troupe of Companions in cRPGs, yet only WotR and PoE2 has this type of companion. The worse part is, both games didn't do them both justice.
Everyone is saying always saying how much difficulty they had with Wenduag and Camellia, but my Orcish Dominatrix commander was absolutely overjoyed to be rolling around with 3 *total baddies* ( In more ways than one ) - Wenduag, Camellia and corrupted Arueshalae. After ascending, we all got together and hunted down Iomedae.
My top 3 favourites: - Daeran - My bro right there. Him and Nenio are hilarious, he can be a reliable healer, romanced him right off the bat and made him a staple in my party. - Nenio - One of the most memorable characters ever. First time I saw her, I was thinking "Hey, who copied Patricia Tannis from Borderlands?". Her dialogue is hilarious and she has reliable debuffs. - Seelah - Nice tank, too bad you can't romance her. Also comes down with healing and buffs. My least 3 favourites: - Wenduag - Didn't hesitate to kill her the moment I saw her again. She was irredeemable. - Camellia - Was okay as a party member until she turned out to be a serial killer, in which case I just killed her. - Greygor - Never cared about him. He should be an actual assassin, not a Slayer, but oh well..
I appreciate this video. I never played Pathfinder before and I was considering buying it upon release for Xbox to sink my teeth into. The characters seem really cool. This video definitely has me leaning towards buying this! Thanks!
Trever's multilclass fits well with his story, but it's actually the other way around! His purpose is to introduce new players to multiclassing and his story fits that well.
Trever introduces new players to multiclassing? What do you mean? The only way you get trever is by doing some very specific dialog choices that most new players wouldnt make, you also get him very late into act 4 by which point the players has spent 30-40 hours with the game which makes the player not a "new player".
Of note is that if you play your cards right, Daeran doesn't get sent to jail, but merely is kept under Hawk's watch. And in case queen Galfrey dies, its possible for him to be implied to be made the next King.
The line that people wanted to see him on the throne only appears in his evil ending, not the lawful one sadly. However the lawful one can have cool interaction with Woljif if you pick the Woljif's ending where he renounces his grandpa's power. (That interaction appears both in lawful ending and the one where you killed Liotr, as long as Woljif renounced the power.)
That's a pretty well thought out evaluation, especially considering all the situational permutations (corrupt/redeemed) and consequences of your choices being either ignored or enforced by companion reactivity. All the bottom tier ones deserve to be right where they're at, simply by virtue of not showing up in more than 5% of playtime. My top 5 in order (based on a combination of interest/enjoyment as well as their auto-leveled combat viability for a casual newcomer like myself) would be Regil (easily), Arushalae, Daeran, Nenio, and Seelah (probably?) Seelah is a hard pick for the 5th slot because as a character I feel she a very uninteresting and predictably bland as a lawful good paladin when left in a vacuum. I picked her as my 5th though because she is a great baseline anchor to contrast to all of the weirder characters as a great synergy, and her high dialogue reactivity as you pointed out practically feeds roleplay fuel to the other oddities in the team.
Aivu is ABSOLUTELY my favorite by far, I just love her so so much. Makes me happy to see her ranked this high heh. Also having a dragon companion is just awesome! I likewise also wish Nenio was romanceable, very much so - she would likely be my go-to if she was, honestly. Yeah it makes sense for the character that she isn't, but it wouldn't be a stretch to think of reasons why she would be fine with it and perhaps even enjoy it a little - but still, we all know where here priorities would lie, and that's part of her charm lol
My list would look similar. My only real nitpick is that Regill does have a pretty cool final quest, and its resolution was shocking to me at least. The fact that he sacks his own position in the hellknights just to ensure they are on board with your crusade took me by complete surprise. He is far and away the best evil character in the game that a good character can tolerate. He has integrity and a strong moral code. While Woljif has my favorite voice acting in the game, Regill's is a close second. And Greybor has so much potential to be cool, but every fight he is jogging his stubby legs up to the enemy, usually a round or two after the normal characters and even further behind someone mounted, and then he does about the same amount of damage as Aru or Lann, but they have been shooting for 3 rounds already. I like his quest, but I don't think Dwarven dual wielding slayer is the best class to take up a spot in my party. I have transitioned him to throwing axes once, but it is wasting some feats which feels bad. Luckily slayers get a lot of those.
@@SlanderedGaming Yep, Grumpy Grandpa Reg the Murder Gnome is great. "Being an azata? That's a paddlin'." "Lookin' for the commander? That's a paddlin'." "Giving out healing potions to the wounded? That's a paddlin'." "Not being a Hellknight but a pansy paladin? Oooh, you'd better believe THAT's a paddlin'." th-cam.com/video/sKiLfH3DVGc/w-d-xo.html Make him a Gendarme, put him on a cat and CHOOOORGE.
FYI you don't have to choose between killing the inquistor and Daeran going to jail. In my play through I let him go on trial and vouched for him and the inquisitor came back later saying something like due to your vouching for him he was exonerated or something like that. Not sure if that's something you have to unlock though.
@@SlanderedGaming Only conditions I can think of that may be relevant is I played along with the inquisitor all the way so I guess I had a good relationship with the inquisitor, and also had a good relationship with Daeran. There was a romance option but I turned him down. This was also an Azata playthrough (so maybe have to be good aligned?)
@@alexfloyd5730 You need to not play evil mythic path, you need to accrue high trust during Daeran's questline and you need to tell him after act 2 quest one of the 2 "good" options otherwise it locks you out.
Standout thing to me was their impact to the story. When a character just becomes a cardboard cutout as soon as their business is done I struggle to keep them around. So having insight into how they develop or the gravity of their insight on story decisions is important to me, great video.
Ember was my most liked, she's one of the few characters who had that little sister aura that makes you want to protect her, when I found out who burned her I just went, "oh, so you are going to die now", I don't care how useful you might have been, I didn't even want an option to romance her. Wendulag definitely has the best romance though, slavishly evil to lovingly soft, the perfect right hand, as long as you keep her well fed... Camellia was just an animal, she dressed up her psychopathy as needing to do it for the spirt and never tried to focus it, always kill her when it's time, I could just send her away but I feel better knowing she's in a ditch minus a head. I kinda wanted nurah to come back, someone clearly as broken as her would have been a very interesting trickster companion.
@@SlanderedGaming wouldn't you need to Enlarge her or Reduce yourself if you weren't a halfling or gnome to start with? KC: *Legendary Proportions* Nurah: *ouch*
I ran with a weird group combo. My character was Chaotic Good Azata, but I kept Camelia alive because her character was so good to use in the party. I also kept both Sosiel and Daeren as dual healers and gave all three characters pretty good summoning abilities. I personally hated using Wenduag and Nenio so it's funny they are ranked 1 & 2 on your list. I also usually used Regill and Seelah. The only companion I happily killed in my playthrough was Regill when he betrayed me in Act 5.
The comment about Canon characters not being romanceable is true. Paizo doesn't allow it (Owl cat told people this was the reason why the Barbarian character in the first game wasn't romanceable), which is as you said extremely weird because in both pathfinder games you can kill the canon characters.
It's honestly not that surprising. In most adventure modules that paizo releases they actually have npcs listed and in the breakdowns for those characters will list whether or not that npc is romancable. And this is in Table top.
The reason the Lich path has terrible undead companions is more of a balance thing than anything else; Namely because those undead companions function more as cannon fodder to distract the enemy while you do all the damage. They are for the most part essentially stronger versions of a standard Necromancer's minions, while most powerful Necromancers have one powerful sentient minion, a Lich can command several, as we can see here. It is also entirely possible to recruit Delamere as not a slave, but in turn she will have free will. I mean if you're playing a Lich Wizard, essentially you'll be Ainz Ooal Gown or Arkhan the Black; Since Wizards can learn most spells in the game regardless of their Necromancer specialisation, even if they can't use all those spells, which is exactly Ainz thing too, basically this is the *only* game I've come across where you can role play Monomga (right down to having a succubus wifu). Since a Lich is more than capable of one shotting entire groups of enemies with AoE spells with a D20 check of 8+ and an arsenal of instant death spells, so unless you have super bad luck with rolls, facing down demons or undead of which case versing undead you simply take control of them and turn them on each other and in cases of versing demons you empower your minions to take care of them for you, so you're mostly unstoppable on your own verses everything bar anything that holds equal power to yourself, that being other ascended or bosses and for that you have companions to distract while you buff yourself up to 3 shot the bosses with massive spells that hit for a 3rd of the bosses health bar. I also find Greybor a bit jarring because I'm so used to the Slayer look for Dwarfs from Warhammer and Dwarves from Shadowrun, where they are tattooed up and rocking awesome haircuts (the Warhammer version is shirtless). Compared to the Pathfinder game where they basically just look like normal boring Dwarves but duel wield axes. What makes it worse is that Greybor rocks the most boring haircut to ever exist, the split crown combover, add to this a neat short beard, it is uncanny for a Dwarf honestly, especially at his age, he isn't young, it doesn't look good. Also Lann is in my opinion guilty of some game designer at Owlcat's fantasy of the perfect husbando during the game's development but since he is so heavily woven into the game they were forced to run with it. He comes off as someone's table top Pen and Paper character that was min/maxed specifically for a broken archer build being shoved into the game because his class to personality is so ridiculously incompatible it just feels this way from top to bottom (wouldn't be surprised if the OG character was an elf Legolas clone). Comes off as the developers coming up with the character, his look, backstory, story arc and personality completely separately to whoever implemented the class for him, like an afterthought. Regardless, he was poorly written and the only real way you can build him is a multishot single target sniper archer due to his bizarre class type, but it works, so I guess whoever designed it on table top knew what they were doing.
The ones that never leave my party are: daeran, regill and ember. The ones i like to romance are: wenduag (prob my fav) and arueshalae. The ones i dont like using from a mechanical point of view are: sosiel (dislike non-spintaneous full casters, nenio (same reason) and seelah. The ones i don't like from a story pov are: seelah and aivu. The ones i simply like as characters, from a story pov are: regill, trever, sosiel, arue. The rest i'm either neutral towards, or i don't care that much (lich companions). If anyone asks i like going demon most of my playthroughs, and mostly dislike azata feom a thematic pov.
@@SlanderedGaming I dunno... I guess I'm not that much of a fan of... naive good characters I guess. Their stories kinda mirror that. Seelah has her intresting moments for sure, but those pale in comparison to how many times she's quick to let her guard down (like the drow ambush). Aivu is one of those "you either love me or hate me" characters. Some people like her cuz she's silly, but a lot of people find her tiresome (and I actually work with a person like this IRL, and despite doing my best to help her her feel accepted, she's still very tiresome). And how could I forget my man Greybor??? I think from a design pov he's also top, along with regill.
Personally, these are some of my least used companions. I play real time with pause, and particularly if I am playing trickster and using completely normal spell for virtually all my spell slots, the spontaneous caster penalty to metamagic is extremely painful (in turn based, you will feel this a lot less, but in RTWP, its the equivalent of going last on initiative every time, and you can also actually go last on initiative meaning the enemy can get nearly 2 full rounds of actions before you have cast your spell). Also, Soseil, whilst boring, is very strong strong due to impossible domain. Community Domain's massive boost to AB and saves is a fantastic boss killer and can be precast on all the most difficult fights except areelu, and against baphomet, its one of the few precast buffs that wont be stripped by word of baphomet. Madness domain isnt thematically fitting, and touch of madness is honestly pretty awkward to use due to short duration and melee touch attack, but if you want to shred boss saves or hit an unhittable target, its great. Also really helps with difficult skill checks, most notably the lexicon of paradox. Its extremely versatile. And Sosiel can be quite an effective warrior with his respectable strength, glaives and self buffs like frightful aspect and divine power. I stand to be corrected, but I cannot honestly see how to make Daeran remotely competent as a warrior assuming he is levelled as a caster. Daeran is a good healer, but that's about it. Ember is naff at everything. A witch's spell list has too many missing pieces to be a replacement for a cleric/oracle, or to be as effective an offensive caster as a sorc/wizard. You dont get haste, or the animal buffs, or weird, or sirocco, or a whole bunch of others key arcane spells. You dont get mass heal or restoration, and resurrection comes very late. Those healing spells you do get are usually 3 levels later than Soseil. People often talk about her as a hellfire ray specialist, seemingly for no better reason than that she gets the spell. Nenio also gets the spell, and will use it more effectively as she is much easier to turn into an arcane trickster, and can use metamagic so much better. And the same build that uses hellfire ray for Nenio can also get 40+ DCs on Weird. And she can handle haste for you, which is an essential buff. Its not like Ember is a realistic replacement for a divine caster, so I cannot see why I would every want Ember over Nenio. Hexes are useful, though generally become less so over time (the opportunity cost of spending a round to debuff 1 enemy gets steeper over time), but Camellia is a decent tank and melee damage dealer who can cover this base, and she gets mass heal and can easily get a full animal companion. Seelah is not very good offensively, but is one of the 2 characters in the game who can tank somewhat competently (this may no longer be true with the magic vestment nerf incoming), and mark of justice is huge. I dont use mercs so unless my own character is both a tank and has access to mark of justice, I always take Seelah. Regill is an OK warrior, but brings little else to the party. Greybor is quite a lot more effective offensively. Wenduag, Lann and Arushalae can all do decent damage without being in melee with a mediocre AC, and Arusalae buffs the party with ranger's bond, which is again great.
Did you do the lawful good true love ending with Daeran, so that you can avoid killing anyone and not send Daeran off to be lobotomized. That's probably the best run you can do with him, unless you are playing an evil character. Personally Daeran and Regill are my favorites, though I do agree that I wish Regill had some more personal quests.
Don't even need to do the love ending! Get enough points with Daeran and you can just make sure that Inquisitor stays as his Guardian, no need to lobotomize him.
I'm really happy to hear you'll be doing an updated Angel run. Now that it's confirmed WOTR is coming to console (yay!), I can't wait to get my hands on it. Absolutely want to be an Angel! Definitely going to need guidance and I want to use your content. Your content is thorough and easy to understand. Supremely helpful to someone new to the genre. 😁
Finnean Deismar outclassed - it depends on what you're up against. That _Brilliant Energy_ enhancement is often under-rated, but can make otherwise unhittable (or very difficult to hit) foes quite smackable. As long as said foes aren't undead or constructs. Not saying he should always be equipped, but he's often quite good in some otherwise tough spots. You're not exactly wrong, but I do think you're rating his utility as a weapon a bit low.
On a couple of my runs, someone used Finnean as a main weapon. As long as they weren't undead or constructs it was a very effective weapon for me. Downside was I would forget every time to swap before an undead fight.
Finnean is great is you specialize into a weapon for which there aren't a ton of great ones, fauchards and falchions, come to mind. There are a few good ones, but a maxed finnean with greater magic weapon and his brilliant energy ability are still very good
@@theshatteredsaga3965 yeah I used him as a falchion in a run and greater magic weapon helps a lot of weapons. That plus any character who gets abilities to give enhancements to their weapons = win.
As long as you have a secondary weapon for undead and constructs, there are many instances where Finnean is either the best or the second best weapon of some types on Unfair difficulty. I would say that the lower the difficulty, the less that you actually even need to try using Finnean. For example Finnean is a top 2 glaive and Fauchard in the game.
With our favorite noble healer, to be fair he can still be kept out of prison if your relationship is high enough, though he gets watched by the inquisition.
@@SlanderedGaming No, if you have high enough relationship with him, and are alive, the inquisition just watches him which makes Daraen uneasy. It doesn't change your point about it not feeling much better though. Makes me wish we could make his alignment have a shift.
Biggest problem I have with Wenduag is just justifying bringing her along instead of Lann. Even if you're doing an evil playthrough, you *just* saw her betray someone because she thinks you're stronger. Hell, she even says she fully intended on betraying you before that point. What is gonna happen if the giant bug demon you just saw kill a dragon is still up in Kenabres? Sure, if you've played before you know Deskari's left by then, but your character doesn't know that, and anyone with sense would think bringing her along is effectively aiming a dagger at your own back. She's a great character, but it's one of those cases where you have to hand your PC the idiot ball for the sake of your meta knowledge.
I had issues with a few of the things said in the video Regarding the skeleton champion: I don't think it belongs in the bottom, because while it's weak and has no interactivity it doesn't take up a party slot, it's basically a seventh party member. I would place it above the other lich party members except Kestoglyr, because they are just as bland but also occupy a space in your party that could've gone to a better companion, while the champion doesn't have an opportunity cost like that Regarding Daeran: You say the ending to his quest has only two options, killing the inquisitor or condemning Daeran to inprisonment. This isn't actually true, if you play as a non-evil mythic path and Daeran trusts you, then his ending states the inquisitor speaks in his favor for the authorities and he gets to live free. One of his potential ending slides says he becomes a charitable person and a healer, and by the time he's an old man everyone will have forgotten what a bastard he was in his youth. I thought that was very satisfying Regarding Seelah: She only leaves if you choose the lich in Chapter 5 (or swarm, naturally), she's perfectly chill with a demon or devil commander. Which makes it even weirder
I disagree about the Skeletal Champion because with the undead party members you still have full control over their development. With the Champion you can only choose templates which oftentimes are weak. Your correction regarding Daeran is correct it appears I haven't been able to unlock his best ending yet. Regarding your Seelah point, I didn't know that at the time and yeah it's SUPER weird.
From what I've looked up number 15 - you can also romance her as a Gold Dragon and a Legend. Though those may have been added in patches recently. Finally got my copy on Xbox One. Thank you for these guides. Considering the encyclopedia you have to pour over to make a good buid (never mind play the game - since getting the quest outcomes you want can be extra convoluted) it does help a lot. I want to do: Demon - romance Wedulaug. Try to make both as powerful as possible (Went Invulnerable rager base class for MC so demon rage might suit the character) Gold Dragon = Romance Aru. Try to find a way not to make her ranged (I'm not fond of that style) * Monkerdin Sorc Dragon Disciple into Gold Dragon (Way of the Dragon with claws included baby!) Aeon - Romance none? Probably Inquisitor/Fighter/Paladin (if I can swing alignments) Maybe Cleric with Law domain. Go Renegade because I've heard what happens to True Aeon MC. Secret: If I can ever manage to get enough of a handle mechanically to pull this one off... probably romance Queen. Lich - Damphyr Cleric Estelerge (I don't know the spelling) Paladin? * Call it damned by fate; or falling in the name of trying to do what's right - by any means. Swarm??? - Not big on bugs in RL. Might try to see if I can do a solo playthrough. Will probably make me glad I only play Custom with all the settings down to "please don't kill me?" lol. Also if Ismodae was mortal once, then she wants you to be Legend because she KNOWS that you are on the same path she took; and is directly concerned about potentially losing her job. Recall that in D&D which Pathfinder is mostly based on, a God is divine to a point. They're not infallible. The right mortal can come along and just steal their portfolio. They can be killed. They can I believe be forgotten, which leads to loss of power. There's even a handbook on Epic Destinies for D&D that might have been incorporated or expanded in Pathfinder tabletop, in which one such level 30 background to work toward is starting off as a Demigod. (Which is why the Secret ??? Route is something I'm keen on - but would have enjoyed it being less of a PITA to pull off, or an option to pick from the start)
@@SlanderedGaming In Baulder's Gate 2, the whole story is about the murder of - the god of murder. Who foresaw that he would die, and got it on with as many women (willingly and not) as he could, to breed his successors. Whom he very much intended to use to return to life as a loophole. Canonically he actually does, though you won't learn that from playing the series of games about it. So yeah. Level 30 campaigns and or specifically campaigns that involve playing as Gods in D&D can be done... they are just really convolutely high concept, hard to pull off for most DM's until you REALLY know what you're doing, and not as much "fun" to most players. Who often won't. But the godly realms are another potential setting, for a twist or a change. Becoming a god in D&D doesn't have to be the end of the adventure. It can in fact be the beginning. God's also have portfolios which act as sort of a power ranking. The more hats you wear, or the more of your hats are tied to primal power concepts (like Life, Death or Balance) the stronger you're likely to be, and the less likely you are to get ganked. Although that's not always true as Bhal started off Mortal, and was one of three high level adventurers that took the throne from I believe it was Jerghal. Since he was bored of his existence; and set up like Hades, without a Persephone. There's also the spell plague to consider; where the goddess of magic was slain (this was around the same time as Bhall went down, since I believe it's the event that forced most of them to walk in the mortal world and made them that vulnerable) Pathfinder is based off of D&D ruleset, but it's also got it's own flavor and context. So her inclusion and the nod to her wanting MC to be a legend is actually an awesome little tidbit. : ) Christ, I just realized I'm THAT bard. A lore geek... o. O
Have enjoyed your stuff since before the name change. I have no interest in playing stuff like swarm and lich, so it’s nice that I have you to do it for me. Also, a good path kind of ruins Camilla and I would love a Wenduag run, but I can’t seem to quit my best boi Lann. For me, though, Aivu has to be number one, since I tried an Angel run, but didn’t want to continue without my favorite little Havoc Dragon. And for Regill, I think the fact that he doesn’t change is a feature, not a bug. I always find it weird just how much control the protagonist has over the lives of the companions; I love that no matter what you do, Reg is gonna Reg. My top 5: Aivu/Reg/Ember/Sosiel/Arue (For us Desna-following Azatas) PS> Nice to see you picking up subscribers; you’ll be at 10K in no time!
I prefer your wholly secret timecode list (in the description) for this specific video to totally keep the suspense for us all viewers. That's a good strategy.
Undead Staunton is only _fantastic_ because even his build is in-character. It's the most spiteful, "I'm going to make bad life choices just to stick it to people around me" build ever. Possibly only Trevor's build is worse but we also know he made. . .unfortunate life choices. He's sticking a thumb in his own eye just to make things worse for his party. Very Staunton. Staunton's build is just purposefully miserable, to share his misery. It's the opposite of the build he has when you fight him (opposite in the sense that he's quite effective, given the action-economy disadvantage your opponents are labouring under during that last Act II Drezen fight).
Awesome video, I was expecting your new ranking of companions on WTOR! I don't necessarily agree with all your rankings (we all have our preferences, don't we? hehe), but you made some pretty strong arguments which made me rethink my thoughts on some companions. So well done, that's probably a long video which took you a lot of time to make and thinkings and it is, in my opinion, the most complete video there is on TH-cam about companions rankings in this game. Good job and take care ! 😉
Somewhere along the line they gave Aivu a voice. Both when she introduces herself and during the Dance of Masks events. Its every bit as adorable as it should be.
The biggest shortcoming of WotR is that you can't romance Seelah. But all the psychopaths? Sure why not. Somebody at Owlcat has emotional issues galore.
I love how you manage to produce long videos that have only relevant information, even when it's just your own personal opinions. I'm sick and tired of "content creators" who manage to get me so bored or upset about wasting my time at the first minute of their videos that I just downvote them and leave. You, on the other side, are among the very few who have such long videos that are so good that I want want to watch them to the end. Thank your for all the the great information you share and congratulations for such a well done job.
Espionage expert is fine. Favoured enemy really hasnt been nerfed, its just they decided in a game where a massive proportion of enemies are demons, having demons as a single favoured enemy type would be overpowered (though weirdly, also included a subclass which does precisely this). However, just max out demons of magic, and take obscure favoured enemy picks for everything else (unfortunately, humans are already taken as one pick, and they are quite common). What this will allow you to do is instant enemy to apply max favoured enemy bonus to any opponent who is not a selected favoured enemy. Say if you take gnomes, fey and goblins etc, this basically means you can nearly always get your full favoured enemy bonus, and with rangers bond, give half of that to the entire party, which as an espionage expert and with her high charisma, actually works extremely well. Whatever you do, do not pick demon or slaughter or demon of strength as favoured enemy types, as it will really gimp your instant enemy usage.
I would say it is nerfed if you played Kingmaker where Fey was one category even though they were by far the largest group of enemies in the game. Your strategy for dealing with it's current implementation is definitely legit though.
@@SlanderedGaming Fey aren't omnipresent in Kingmaker until chapter 6. Whereas demons are overwhelmingly prolific in Wrath. Owlcat implemented the suggested rules for focused campaigns as Paizo wrote them. And I've never seen an issue of viability with Arue in the campaign. Also I think evil Arue acts exactly as she should. Corrupting her is convincing her to be what she was. Monogamous succubi are like Gotham without Batman.
@@shawngillogly6873 she's a demon at that point. Doesn't need to be monogamous to maintain the relationship with the player. My demon is doing the same thing 🤣.
As someone who has a pathalogical need to always play chaotic good or chaotic neutral it really irritates me that so many of the more interesting companions require you to do evil stuff to keep them around. The Lann/Wenduag split is especially irritating because I can't stand Lann at all but it takes some serious mental gymnastics to justify siding with Wenduag in the prologue as a non-evil character.
Seelah has a canon romance and is Lawful too. Given the rarity of Polyamorous or Aromantic characters, and given that she's Lawful too, it's fairly difficult to justify any kind of romance.
It might come down to a matter of specs and tastes, but I feel Greybor and Regill outclass Wendu in melee and Aruaru is a better sharpshooter: though maybe it's just how I chose to spec them. And since I screwed up her act IV questline (I didn't catch her conspiring with Savamelekh) she backstabbed me in act V even though I did EVERYTHING ELSE right (well, except I didn't romance her) so I'm biased against that wretch: seems quite an oversight, she's seen me butcher a fuck tonne of demons, some quite strong, moreso than Sacamelekh, yet she still chose to align with him. Stupid. That being said, if you're on the Devil path, you can have Greybor sell you his soul and sign a formal contract with you in his last quest, but somehow you cannot, whilst being a devil, forgive Wenduag in exchange for selling her soul (and maybe her whole tribe's too)? Proper shame, that, they included a contract for Greybor but not for her.
Arue's class is something I fix by getting her at level 8 in Drezen and going Arcane Enforcer for BAB and sneaks. As for ol' Mr Jefto, I always found Eldritch Scoundrel underpowered. I went to level 4 to get STR drain off sneak then full Vivisectionist. Which has huge lol consequences for picking Abundant Casting - Woljif ends up with more 1st level spells than anyone.
On Normal/Core, I tend to end up with a lowish magic party - full divine caster (KC or Sosiel depending, Daeran is too squishy), both Lann and Rue (Lann goes Sanctified Slayer for backup heals and buffs, Rue gets an Arcane Enforcer dip for Dimension Door and sneak), Seelah (Dragonknight build, Pally/Bard/DD), and Ember. Woljif with Greater Enduring Spells makes an ideal buffbot - have you seen the sheer amount of Blurs, Mirror Images, Hastes, Heroisms, Displacements and Mage Armours he can cast, not to mention Grease, Shield and the 2nd level stat buffs? Then he wades in and shanks the baddies to death with ITWF and super-sneak.
One last comment, My least favorite of the normal companions(Because the liches would be at the bottom otherwise) is Camellia. I got a couple of reasons. 1.I just feel like if she wasn't related to someone in the crusade, she could of been anywhere. Everyone else has a actual connection to the war with the demons but she doesn't care and just wants to murder people, with only the recent addition of slides that let her father get a win if she kills him and lives to tell the tale. The fact everyone just kind of lets her murder without issue just feel very detached as well. And other than Daraen I don't see any of them accepting her actions, those like Regill likely would think poorly of a companion who lets her do her thing. 2. The twist that she's a sociopath isn't even hidden given her blatant shouting of it from the first combat encounter, I wish they gave her some less clearly psycho shouting dialogue at the start and slowly have her being obvious as the game goes on. The necklace hiding her alignment doesn't help either when it doesn't have a use beyond that, if it increased her stealth skill then that would of been a nice way of having her justify it from another angle away from the spirit stuff. 3. She's just a tad too much for me with all her scenes and what not. I entertained it the first time, I barely let her live past that. I might of gone Lich but the ritual fetish murder and heart drinking turns me off. 4. From what I understand from online research, the npc she killed at the start would of been a more interesting companion, wish there a way to get them to see for myself but I'll have to wait to get a chance to do a pathfinder round of that. I so agree with some of your points on her, as she's a effective combat companion and has a great voice, which is why there's this great divide on her. Makes me wish I could trade her for the Mongrels so I could have and progress both their stories naturally instead of just one.
Yup Camellia really only makes sense for Evil parties which is why I mentioned that in video and ranked her a little lower. My Demon loves her but everybody else is definitely on the fence.
I can see the justification for your list, so can't fault your choices. Camellia is a bit lower for me personally just because her killing crusaders just seems counter productive for most of my characters.
@@SlanderedGaming well yeah, but I mean I have evil characters that would look at that to and be like "that's squandering resources. MY resources" lol. But I also know to each their own, did end up making a Sorcerer who romanced her just to try it out.
SG I know this video is 6 months old but I am looking for advice on party members for the front line as I am about to purchase the game. In Kingmaker you had Amiri and Valerie for the front line and if need be Harrim. In WotR I assume Regill and Seelah could fill that need but Paladins are known not be the damage dealer that a fighter could provide. I don't really like playing fighters or anything requiring to be a frontliner so what do you suggest for the damage dealer/damage soak for this game? What did you find works best for you? Thanks Much.
Archers are brutal in this game so Lann or Wenduag will do a ton of damage. Paladin's don't do massive damage themselves but their Mark of Justice ability will make the entire team hit easier and do a lot more damage as long as you stack Seelah's Charisma high.
I feel i should say i used Daeran in an Angel playthrough, and didnt kill the inquisitor nor handed him over to be sent to jail, in the end slides he was allowed to retain being a noble rich boy, with the inquisitor visiting regular to "check up" on him. On the one hand Daeran hates that he is under remote supervision, but on the other he accepts that its only because the Inquisitor does these checks that keeps him out of jail.
Framing the choice between Daeran and Hawkblade as Good/Evil is curious. Siding with Hawkblade is Lawful. Siding with Daeran is Good. The choice of which you care more about is super interesting to me.
I don't know if you can call siding with Daeran good if you have to murder Hawkblade and all his inquisitors in cold blood. if it was a more clear cut decision then I agree that would make it more interesting.
@@SlanderedGaming I don't know if that's considered cold blood when they attack you. Killing someone trying to kidnap someone else is a Good action. The fact the kidnaping is sanctioned by the Law has no effect on this consideration.
I'd say siding with Daeran is chaotic because it's "for freedom" while siding with Liotr is lawful. Since I always play chaotic paths and I have no love for Iomedae and her lackeys, the choice for me is clear. On the other hand, if you play Angel it makes more sense to want the lawful ending that pleases the inquisition and doesn't doom your companion. I'm however baffled at the amount of people who when failed to unlock the lawful good ending where Daeran doesn't go to prison, would rather condemn or even kill the companion over a stranger. You'd think someone who helped you through Abyss and back carries more importance than a guy you met twice in your life.
@@ivylilybasket I don’t know if protecting someone who is ostensibly innocent counts as “Chaotic” just because the thing you’re protecting him from is jail time.
@@sharlesdaviskendy2391 I wouldn't call it innocent, rather excused for the decisions by dire circumstances. Like, if you kill in self-defense it's still a kill, but you'd be excused.
I’ve said it before but I’m just mad that both of the main story female romances are both homicidal psychopaths evil characters, that are extremely difficult to make into good waifus. Like nice to have an untamable female option but really needed one of them to be a little less psychotic. Also, being psychotic is not the same thing as being a strong independent woman. I know Owlcat can’t effectively make three dozen characters for the story simply for more romance options but having a decent “broad tastes” option for both genders and maybe some atypical gendered romances would be more interesting.
She makes me think of a certain type of person who, when they were in their teens and twenties, messed around with everone under the sun. However, when they get to their 30s or 40s, they suddenly decide they want to live a good life and settle down with one person.
@@windblownleaf6450 I feel the exact same way as you do. Though she does have a good excuse for it, this does not stop that fact from bugging the hell (or in this case abyss) out of me. She is still my favorite female character in the Pathfinder games though.
Finnean does have camp dialogue its just that usually requires you to have exhausted the other party members dialogue or be alone with just another member also the camp dialogue only plays if your on a random encounter map or any place that isn't a safe location or world map.
Honestly, playing a buffing wizard, the evil companions work really well. Wolfjit and Camelia with Cat's Grace and Reduce Person from my wizard results in them almost constantly getting hits + being able to dodge and avoid attacks better. At leaast where I am in Act 1.
Finnean's personal quests will upgrade him along the way so he can keep up with other unique weapons. His act 3 quest turns him into a +3 weapon and his act 5 quest turns him into a +5 weapon
I am 20 seconds into this video, but whatevs. I still feel like I can make an informed comment on it: Thanks for the content, and your wonderful creations for this niche diamond of a game.
Hey, it's actually possible to resolve Daeran's storyline without evil murder *or* sending him off to jail, but it takes a combination of choices in the right direction earlier on to be able to do so.
I don't know who my fav is, but deciding who I hate the most is easy. When I first met Nenio, I really wished that OwlCat allowed me to go full murderhobo. Unfortunately, they seem a lot less willing to let the player kill off their NPCs than other CRPGs.
Got to be honest, mechanically, she is great, and Nenio is one of the most genuinely funny comic relief characters I have seen in CRPGs. I also appreciate that her unseriousness is restricted to herself. For example, Ember's ridiculous ability to convert seemingly anyone to the cause of good with a brief interaction is totally implausible, and when affecting actual demons feels jarring, whereas I am willing to given Nenio's implausibility a free pass, because it doesnt feel like the game wants me to take it seriously.
I found i really liked the conversation between seelah and arue. It always feels real, like would a Paladin really just kill demons even if one was a known traitor to the demons and a follower a good god, or would she see this as a divine sign and someone to support? Imo in a world were gods are real and active a paladin would definitely support the demon
It is interesting how very very different the rankings are for every player... (the ones without reactivity I wouldnt even consider party members just mercenaries... Honestly THIS single aspect is why I wouldnt choose lich for an evil playthrough. I just cut out too much immersion with the silent drones following me)
Yup it's definitely a problem for some players. For me I think it adds to the rping aspect because honestly being a Lich is a lonely road. You are not raising all of these people to get more conversations.
@@SlanderedGaming Indeed but we know they keep some sort of a personality and opinions. Ciar hates you. Delamare too. Galfrey doesn't care. Staunton serves willingly.. etc. So they are not really blank slates. Ofc you could raise them as brainless undead and it would fit the theme but .. storywise you didnt. They have opinions etc. So it might as well have content attached to it.
I didn't played wenduag romance but from what i have seen about her personnality is than she is desciptable because she is evil , she seem a little dumb and her morality about the strong who win don't even make sense with what she does . They are many moment in the game when you can see than than she is just mean to people and do evil thing just because she randomely decide it like the moment when she kill the shopkeeper (i didn't remember her name ) it was purely free , also she don't hesistate to betray you with some time really dumb justification who don't even work with what was etablished earlier about her morality i think than i even prefer camelia even if she is a little anoying because at least the writer didn't even try to explain her action with really weird thing and she is much loyal and honest (sad to say this lol.....) than wenduag camelia seem less hypocritical than wenduag
Not sure I would treat swarm clones as a companion personally. Also, the fact that they duplicate your exact character has the significant drawback of meaning they want the exact same gear as your character, which is a serious problem for most character builds. You will also seriously struggle with skill checks in most cases. Low gear dependency builds like kineticist probably work best.
Playing as Swarm you need less skills than other playthroughs. I don't bother with Trickery and Religion doesn't matter. I went with Vivisectionist and didn't regret it. Does require to make potions and scrolls beforehand though so you are prepared to solo.
@@SlanderedGaming If you play one again, taking magic nullifcation alongside your rank 9 swarm immunities drastically reduces incoming damage. Very little can actually hurt you.
Ember is best girl, fight me!! Wenduag as a throwing axe rowdy fighter is just AMAZING once it comes online for fully dual weilding them, she is a goddamn machine gun turret that just gibs demons to bloody chunks and cackles like a madwoman while doing it.
to me, seelah and woljif give off friend/sibling vibes, which is why i don’t think they let you romance them. as for nenio, it doesn’t really seem like it would be in character for her to pursue, reciprocate, or desire a romantic or sexual relationship (aside from the purpose of documenting such practices, of course)
I've found it rare to find people who appreciate characters outside the mechanics. *slams subscribe button* I'm a GM of the tabletop game, including Pathfinder Society (the thing Hilor and Finnean are part of), and I've seen characters that may seem jarring between build and personality (heck, I play a few myself). But mechanics do not define personality. I mean heck, even within Golarion, one thing that means something to one character, can mean something different to other characters. Weaving mechanics into your characters' personality can be fun. But it should never define everyones' character imo. And it's so refreshing to see someone else appreciating some interesting characters for their actual character, not "eh, I don't like their mechanics, so the character sucks overall".
Thank you! For me personality and story matters significantly more than mechanics when it comes to party members so I am glad that came through in the ranking.
Personally with ember I take it as if she is locked at a childish level by the trama of being burnt with her father I find a very heart breaking story if they can move me enough to shed a tear then I will always remember that character, I use the same theory when I am running my evil D&D campaign if I as a story teller knows what makes my players tic I will use that.
I played a Lich and romanced Daeren early game, but didn't finish his questline. During my Lich transformation, Zacharius wanted me to kill Daeren and of course I did it for the powers I would get, which meant I got attacked as soon as I was about to kill him. Combine that with the whole shit show that is happening during the complete Lich Transformation act, adding the Daeren Situation made all of this a beautiful mess which became the most memorable moment of my playthrough :D
Nice! Yeah the Lich Transformation was done very well in this game especially if your romance was still ongoing. I romanced Sosiel so unfortunately there wasn't even an opportunity to sacrifice him.
“Remember my name, Wenduag” *proceeds to crit 1-shot the enemy boss that put 5 other party members to death’s door* “Yes I will remember you name silly cat”
Fun fact you can also kill Seelah when you try to kill her friend Jannah at Molten scar in act 3. She frees her friend before you can and the game gives you an option to kill her then too
after dropping the first game several times and never finishing it as i couldn't really get to like my party members (a similar issue i currently have with BG3) i might actually give it a try after seeing these possible companions when i get my next vacation. There are still just a handful that seem atleast remotely interessting but atleast it's something...
Jokes aside my favorite party member was Arue. Yes a cliche answer but. I’ve always been attached to my rangers, I always had Ekun on my team in Kingmaker and this time I get a Ranger but I can romance her? It’s just a coincidence I usually play my characters as worshippers of Desna, even in the tabletop
Woljif: "Hey, wouldn't it be such a shame if I was literally one skill rank away from entering Arcane Trickster at level 5?" Nenio: "Want to see me kill half of this group of demons with Weird? ...want to see me do it again?"
I found out recently that the voice actor for wenduag also voices malady in divinity original sin 2 and also the narrator for baldurs gate 3. Very talented.
She also voice acts Narissa, the fey nymph, in Pathfinder Kingmaker
That's crazy! Wow she is SUPER talented!
The way she says "Authority" in BG3 gives me chills every time.
No wonder I thought Wen's battle dialogue was easily the best I heard among my party.
good voice actor make the game way better
The fact minagho has absolutely 0 reaction to you dragging staunton all the way to the abyss to kill her actually hurt a lil, felt like a no brainer
AGREED.
Its one of those where it probably is just an oversight but its incredibly funny to assume its intentional
Owlcat are masters of massive missed opportunities.
L8 too the party - yea I'd agree, that's the problem with rpgs that have loads of choices, there's only so much budget to cover all your decisions.
My Staunton definitely reacted when we cornered her in the abyss.
"If I can kill her, why can't I romance her?"
Truer words have never been said
I like that you include their personality, writing, dialogue, and voice acting. It really bums me seeing people who do game guides and completely gut out the artistic and narrative elements of the game to do it. You treat the party members like people and not units and it baffles me how rare that it is for guides in this genre.
T h i s
"She gets larger. She becomes a full blown Dragon, allowing you to mount her. Aivu provides your only opportunity to mount a Dragon."
I'll get my Bard...
SHE'S A CHILD!
FBI, OPEN UP
@@BenjCano2020 that's even better !
@@Ranyanya *Mythic Power plays in the distance, slowly but surely getting louder.*
*BONK*
GO TO HORNY JAIL
I cant say im surprised that most of the Lich's compsnions that are bottom tier. I say this as a lich guy myself. I only wish that if they were silent with no dialogue, that they were also silent as they like to groans as if they're generic mindless undead.
Yeah the random groans were really weird. LOL
I actually don’t mind it at all. If they actually had decent builds, or at least were more customizable, like respeccing at a lower levers that would be enough. As is they just feel kinda terrible mechanics wise and also from a role playing perspective. I guess they needed to be needed because lich was so overpowered
@@ashvandal5697 I feel like it should be somewhat switched, make them strong but souless beyond your will and make it so you lose companions over time. I say this loving all the companions normally.
I feel that lich zacharias explains it in one of his dialogues when you really question everything before handing him the wand, with nenio in your party.
She asks bulk questions
He stares at her, then comments to you that you should kill her otherwise you'll miss out on one of the best benefits of being unread. silence.
It made me laugh.
But that implies that undead servants don't speak much at all.
But it would be nice to have more dialogue. I just think it's a roleplay design.
Undead Champion felt more like an animal companion instead of a regular companion. Daeran's last loyalty quest has an ending where the inquisition lets him out on parole under your supervision.
Can you get that Daeran ending if you are not romancing him?
@@SlanderedGaming Yes, choosing supportive dialogue options and not displeasing him during his birthday are key.
@@SlanderedGaming I can confirm that you do not have to romance him to keep him in the party after his final quest, without killing the Inquisitor.
It may not be the funniest way to play but i think thats the fantasy of undead companions they are usually mindless or atleast have dampened emotions which i why they dont care as much as others. I loved my lich for making companions that absolutly cannot go against him it made him feel more powerful.
It doesn't even have to be under your supervision, in the end I sacrificed myself and in ending slide it said that Daeren was free, with Liotr keeping an eye on him
Wenduag surpassed my expectations more than any other companion, though I wouldnt say she is my favourite. I think she is also very hard to justify for a good or neutral commander RP wise. Regill and Daeran are the two most tolerably evil characters, but Wenduag really is way beyond the pale. There are at least two occasions you are aware of her committing murder that are completely indefensible (the bar fight and the mongrel trader), and you know that she is completely depraved and consorting with demons from Hossila onwards. Camellia at least has a (not very convincing) excuse for her murders that you could pretend to find plausible RP wise. Also, she is actually insane, and whilst very evil, feels to me to be less wilfully evil and morally culpable than Wenduag. Wenduag feels like a character who could behave in a psychologically normal way and refrain from evil, but chooses not to. Camellia is obviously batshit and acting on a compulsion.
My Angel/Gold Dragon took the viewpoint that she has been trapped in caves forced to live off scraps and hunt living creatures to survive. Constantly surrounded by death and despair. It's unrealistic to expect that she would immediately adapt to society and cruel to execute her for circumstances outside of her control. Camellia on the other hand has no real excuse.
@@SlanderedGaming yeah camilla is straight up psycho. She kills without remorse and I swear everytime I meet her boom! Dead body!
@@SlanderedGaming i've just finished my first playthrough of this game a while back and i have to say, this is the only game that makes me willfully want to (and did) kill my own companion by my own hands. I am usually pretty forgiving i these types of games, especially towards my own companions, but some people are just too far gone.
@@SlanderedGaming really ... while her other clan members were not homicidal... excuses
I played the game two times as a LE character.... Wenduag and Regill are both of my favorite and must haves in any parties. They both show definitions of evil. Evil for a *Lawful reason* and Evil for the sake of Power. With Wendu's romance you can make her be good with you, and thus maybe steer her towards a more lawful path. After all, its just the two of you, against the world.
Just a thought on Aivu: considering that dragons live for hundreds/thousands of years, their maturity stages are probably different. What maybe a long time for us humans maybe only be a fleeting moment in their lives. Take our own canine friends, most dogs are physically full sized by year 1-2, but are still considered puppies.
Yeah after hearing your comment and others like it I do think her lack of character development makes sense. It just makes me like her a little bit less than some of the other options.
@@SlanderedGaming Heresy! Now give the dragon some sweets as penance.
@@kingleech16 heresy is boooring. But sweets are always welcome.
@@SlanderedGaming I completely and utterly agree that she needs a voice actress.
As someone who has done the Daeran romance a couple of times if you are playing a non-evil mythic path and pick the right dialogue choices and triggers then you can spare Liotr, Liotr lets Daeran go after you vouch for him and you get a good ending
Really?! That has never worked for me EVER. I'll have to look into it.
Yep. This is possible. You just have to have proven yourself reliable and good to Hawkblade, and then vouch for him. Probably doesn't work as Azata. But LG or NG should be able to persuade him.
@@shawngillogly6873 it actually does work as Azata. Just did it myself
@@shawngillogly6873 Actually it works very well as Azata, in my first playthrough going blind I got Daeran's best ending. The most important part for Daeran to be freed after his trial, is that HE likes and trusts you, and the dialog choices to earn that aren't in Lawful territory generally (especially the ones at his birthday party, the more chaos you create the better). What makes it hard to get that ending is that there are multiple moments when you need to choose the right dialogue options, and those are scattered throughout the game. But if you're flirty and playful with him from the start (which I was because I found him very charming), it will come quite naturally whatever your alignment.
@@shawngillogly6873 The only paths blocked from his lawful ending are the evil ones: demon, devil and lich. Everyone else can get it.
Just a minor clarification here regarding Queen Galfrey: You don't need to play Aeon or Angel to romance her. You can play almost any mythic path in the early game (except something evil) and start the romance. Later on, when you can choose between new mythic paths, you can continue the romance as Gold Dragon or Legend. In my first playthrought I romanced her and started with the Azata mythic path and later changed it to Gold Dragon. Still at the end she joined my party and ascended with me. The only thing you have to make sure of is to not being chaotic by the late game and to wait for her at the end of act 3.
Great clarification thanks. I didn't realize GD and Legend could do it as well but that makes sense.
Which is kinda stupid because you have an opportunity for a surprise attack on enemy strong point but you have to wait for your mommy / waifu? And she is pissed because you won anyway....
Kinda feels like 500 years old 5 years old.
And even though you cleansed lot of land, foiled deamons, have a standing army and rebuild a kingdom she strips you of your rank and blabber. I wish there is a mod for Hand of the Inheritor tells her to stfu.
It's always interesting how other players rate the companions. I think that it also depends on what class the main character has and whether he is more good or more evil. In my case, it's a mage (neutral good). So I need a melee fighter. This is where Seelah comes in handy. Also, I like her a lot. Lann is then the next character who isn't evil and is funny at the same time. With me he only has 3 levels as a monk. The remaining levels are hunters. I also need a good healer. I prefer Sosiel as a good character to Daeran. Ember and Arueshalae are also must sees for me. Simply because their stories fascinate me. If there was a living and good version of Staunton, I would definitely have taken him with me. But unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a way to save him...
*SPOILERS*
You can save Staunton but not in a way where he joins your party. The Aeon Mythic path helps him find redemption.
@@SlanderedGaming Interesting. Thanks for the information. I probably would never have found out, because somehow I always choose the path of the angel. I always end up playing role-playing games the way I would decide. Even if I really don't want to. That's why I only ever experience a small part of such games. Also because I decide when choosing a companion based on personality and not on skills. But I still enjoy it. 🙂
In a weird way I actually like the mostly silent lich companions. Also I think with the dragon while I haven't played the azata(?) path I think it makes a lot of sense that mentally she is still a child even though her body grows bigger, she is a dragon after all. Dragons age much slower, it would take her at least 26 years before she even becomes a juvenile with the mind of a juvenile. She needs to be at least 51+ years old before she becomes a young adult
I agree with both points thematically but I think in practice they harm the respective characters.
Camellia is one of my favorites. I always kept her in my party and her romance arc with my good aligned character provided quite a bit of interesting dynamics between the two. My MC had a few moral dilemmas because of that. It was great for my roleplay.
Yup she certainly makes things interesting. LOL
Isn't camellia the only companion you cannot redeem?
@@fitzviandraduivenab2790 Yes
I always kill her in my playthrough.
Camellia never lived past chapter 3
Nenio is my pick for top for one big reason. During the 3rd confrontation with the game's real Big Bad, she's the only one to give them pause, pointing out that while Nenio's experiments are random and seemingly pointless, she's still learning things, and most importantly, hasn't hurt anyone else doing them.
Also I love that if you're a Kitsune as well, one of the points you can bring up about it being bad she forgot herself is that she missed out on having a fluffy tail to curl up with on cold nights.
On that note of Daeran, I also agree and always found the two options you get to resolve his quest very unsatisfying. I really felt there should have been an option somewhere between "I'm going to murder this inquisitor that helped me stop an incredible evil" and "I am going to let a friend be arrested because they did something bad when they were a scared child they couldn't have known the consequences of". Like, I really wish there were another option to just be like "I understand your concerns, inquisitor. But Daeran is one of my most reliable allies. Many in the crusades were former criminals seeking repentance. He is no different, and has more than atoned for his crimes. He is under my protection and the inquisition will not be arresting him in my kingdom." At least something that changes it from having to attack the inquisitor and let him use the 'I guess I will have to defend myself', and making it so if he wants to take Daeran, he becomes the aggressor and you become the defender.
Also, didn't know you could only romance Galfrey as Angel or Aeon, thought it was any good aligned mythic! Appreciate the info!
Originally it was only those two but looks like an update changed it so all Good aligned mythics can romance her.
You can actually toe the line with Daeran between supporting him and trying to bring the best from him. Done correctly, you can stand up for him to the inquisition and he won't have to worry about defending himself. You also don't have to kill the Inquisitor.
There is a lawful ending to his questline which when certain conditions are fulfilled you don't have to kill Liotr or send Daeran to the prison, he basically gets on probation. The way to obtain it is a bit convoluted, but the same can be said about good endings for Trever, Lann, Wenduag or Greybor.
Sir, this is the first video that I've seen of yours. I have not played this game myself (this was a research video to determine whether or not I want to buy it), and I have to say that you did sway me. I truly appreciate your fair and honest assessment of these characters on tactical, aesthetic, and personal reasons. You mentioned several times that high ranking members of your list you didn't like the voice, but said that it fit, and still appreciated the character. I wish this sort of honest assessment was more common on TH-cam, social media, and all other walks of life in America.
Thank you! Really happy to hear that you enjoyed the content. Welcome to the channel!
Regill having no "personal" quest actually reflects his personality very well. He is just not bothered by any personal issues, he just doesn't give a shit and puts the success of the crusade above anything else, even himself. He is pure dedication and consideres himself and anyone else as just a tool for the greater cause
Then why doesn't he have quests that revolve around making the crusade and/or the Hellknights better?
@@SlanderedGaming Because it would deviate from the main task.
Even though my list would look a lot different, it’s always so much fun to see how other people would rank the companions! Great video!! Although I don’t think Camellia only fitting in to evil/neutral parties should be counted as a point against her. I think that makes her very distinct and forcing good characters to compromise a lot to keep her around makes things pretty interesting.
I really love all of the main companions and I hope OwlCat expands on them in future DLC. The dungeon crawls are fun but the companions are what really makes this game for me.
Yup I think that's one of the reasons I liked Through the Ashes more than Inevitable Excess. In IE your companions almost never chimed in while TtA gives you two new companions with lots of dialogue. Owlcat needs to lean into their strengths.
@@SlanderedGaming I think my dream dlc would be one that gives you a fun quest to do before the final battle and afterwards have a big party where you and your companions all interact, like the citadel dlc from Mass Effect 3. I would kill for that with these characters lol
@@bearvanhelsing6035 EXACTLY!!!!
On my first playthrough I really liked Camellia. The fact that she weirdly looks a lot like my ex also helped in that regard, but like my ex they both betrayed me in the end and I had to dump them, This game is truly bigger than life.
Oh, I don't compromise on Cammy. In all my various-flavours-of-good playthrough - either Azata or Angel - she's dead before I leave Drezen. Most stylishly from my Dragonknight Sorcerer - blink, displacement, blur, Greater Invis, then just breathed on her a couple of times.
A lot of people seem to dislike Nenio alot. I personally love her amd she rarely leaves my party. She's like a younger Mordin Solus that doesn't have existential crisis after dooming an entire race
Yup Mordin Solus is a great comparison.
I personally compare Nenio with Patricia Tannis from Borderlands - two women with brilliant minds, a high desire for scientific pursuits and general knowledge, also weirdos in their own way.
EXACTLY. Lann, sniper wit a bow and a bro is like garrus, while nenio was like mordin. Thats why they 2 where always in my party, but Lann is number one.
For me, Daeren becomes one of my favorites, mostly due to the fact that he will almost ALWAYS have your back.
He's much deeper than i think most people take him for
And he's MVP at healing (also commonly known as being Heal-slut), add mythic feat that allows Cure Wounds spells to be range spells and Mythic Channeling that allows to heal or deal damage twice of your charisma bonus, and he has loads of it.
My personal favorites, but I'm a newbie to the game:
1- Daeran. Yes, he's evil. Yes, he's obnoxious. But he's so damn hilarious and a really powerful healer. (Also, my favorite romance.)
2- Nenio. Powerful caster and I love her personality. She always makes me cackle with her banter.
3- Ember. She has loads of banter with other party members and her class is amazing once she's gotten some levels in!
Honorable mention- Lann. I'm a sucker for his romance, even if it isn't as flashy as some others. I also like how reactive he is to what's going on.
Least favorites
1- Camellia. There's evil and crazy, and then there's Camellia. She pushes it too far for me to tolerate her for long.
2- Wenduag. Nothing against her as a party member, but her personality utterly repulses me.
3- Finnean. Great concept, but he's not as talkative and reactive as I'd like. Also, I typically play casters or priests.
Yup those points all make sense. Hope you are enjoying the game thus far.
Well, I can't name for sure, who are my best favorites - On one hand we have damn hilarious trio of Daeran, Lann and Woljif, on the other - sweet pair of Regill and Greybor. Besides we have Ember, Nenio, Arueshalae and Seelah.
But I would sympathize with your choice of least favorites, except for I would call Cami and Wendu openly hated characters for me - the former gave me unforgettable (and unforgivable) feeling I had when my employer pissed me with my salary, and the latter explains why American natives had such a fear before Wendigo.
Daeran is such a ho. :D
A character like Finnean is my favorite troupe of Companions in cRPGs, yet only WotR and PoE2 has this type of companion. The worse part is, both games didn't do them both justice.
''if I can kill her, why can't I romance her?'' - Ted Bundy
😂😂
Everyone is saying always saying how much difficulty they had with Wenduag and Camellia, but my Orcish Dominatrix commander was absolutely overjoyed to be rolling around with 3 *total baddies* ( In more ways than one ) - Wenduag, Camellia and corrupted Arueshalae. After ascending, we all got together and hunted down Iomedae.
Exactly! My Demon is doing the same thing! 😂
Finnean actually does have camp dialogue, but you have to basically be by yourself outside of Drezen (or whatever your base is.)
Oh interesting I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out!
He has some camp dialogue with greybor
@@zebfirehd9102 Huh, okay so maybe one extra party member then? Who knows, maybe Aivu even has some camp dialogue and we don't know it yet.
@@alduintheanti-dragonborn its seems to be rare
He has dialogue with multiple party members it's just very rare to trigger unless you just have the party member in question.
My top 3 favourites:
- Daeran - My bro right there. Him and Nenio are hilarious, he can be a reliable healer, romanced him right off the bat and made him a staple in my party.
- Nenio - One of the most memorable characters ever. First time I saw her, I was thinking "Hey, who copied Patricia Tannis from Borderlands?". Her dialogue is hilarious and she has reliable debuffs.
- Seelah - Nice tank, too bad you can't romance her. Also comes down with healing and buffs.
My least 3 favourites:
- Wenduag - Didn't hesitate to kill her the moment I saw her again. She was irredeemable.
- Camellia - Was okay as a party member until she turned out to be a serial killer, in which case I just killed her.
- Greygor - Never cared about him. He should be an actual assassin, not a Slayer, but oh well..
I appreciate this video. I never played Pathfinder before and I was considering buying it upon release for Xbox to sink my teeth into. The characters seem really cool. This video definitely has me leaning towards buying this! Thanks!
Best ones are: Ember, Arueshalae and Daeran. The rest are OK but this 3 never leave my party if I get a say on it.
Yup Ember is definitely one of my fav's.
Trever's multilclass fits well with his story, but it's actually the other way around! His purpose is to introduce new players to multiclassing and his story fits that well.
Trever made me think about how multiclassing affects my RP!
I've never seen Trevor in game :( don't you get him really late?
@@rbkskillz Yeah act 4 and to actually get him to stay you need to do some pretty specific stuff
@@rbkskillz Act 4
Trever introduces new players to multiclassing? What do you mean? The only way you get trever is by doing some very specific dialog choices that most new players wouldnt make, you also get him very late into act 4 by which point the players has spent 30-40 hours with the game which makes the player not a "new player".
Of note is that if you play your cards right, Daeran doesn't get sent to jail, but merely is kept under Hawk's watch. And in case queen Galfrey dies, its possible for him to be implied to be made the next King.
The line that people wanted to see him on the throne only appears in his evil ending, not the lawful one sadly. However the lawful one can have cool interaction with Woljif if you pick the Woljif's ending where he renounces his grandpa's power. (That interaction appears both in lawful ending and the one where you killed Liotr, as long as Woljif renounced the power.)
Yeah I will definitely go for this ending next time.
That's a pretty well thought out evaluation, especially considering all the situational permutations (corrupt/redeemed) and consequences of your choices being either ignored or enforced by companion reactivity. All the bottom tier ones deserve to be right where they're at, simply by virtue of not showing up in more than 5% of playtime.
My top 5 in order (based on a combination of interest/enjoyment as well as their auto-leveled combat viability for a casual newcomer like myself) would be Regil (easily), Arushalae, Daeran, Nenio, and Seelah (probably?)
Seelah is a hard pick for the 5th slot because as a character I feel she a very uninteresting and predictably bland as a lawful good paladin when left in a vacuum. I picked her as my 5th though because she is a great baseline anchor to contrast to all of the weirder characters as a great synergy, and her high dialogue reactivity as you pointed out practically feeds roleplay fuel to the other oddities in the team.
Yup Seelah is always great to have on the team.
this is great, thanks for the effort making the vid, having so much fun with this game so far
Aivu is ABSOLUTELY my favorite by far, I just love her so so much. Makes me happy to see her ranked this high heh. Also having a dragon companion is just awesome!
I likewise also wish Nenio was romanceable, very much so - she would likely be my go-to if she was, honestly. Yeah it makes sense for the character that she isn't, but it wouldn't be a stretch to think of reasons why she would be fine with it and perhaps even enjoy it a little - but still, we all know where here priorities would lie, and that's part of her charm lol
+1 for Aivu voice actress. And crunchy OMNOMNOM noise when you give her a cookie :3
You’ve done a great job with these videos. Thanks for all your hard work and game analysis!
Thank you!
My list would look similar. My only real nitpick is that Regill does have a pretty cool final quest, and its resolution was shocking to me at least. The fact that he sacks his own position in the hellknights just to ensure they are on board with your crusade took me by complete surprise. He is far and away the best evil character in the game that a good character can tolerate. He has integrity and a strong moral code. While Woljif has my favorite voice acting in the game, Regill's is a close second.
And Greybor has so much potential to be cool, but every fight he is jogging his stubby legs up to the enemy, usually a round or two after the normal characters and even further behind someone mounted, and then he does about the same amount of damage as Aru or Lann, but they have been shooting for 3 rounds already. I like his quest, but I don't think Dwarven dual wielding slayer is the best class to take up a spot in my party. I have transitioned him to throwing axes once, but it is wasting some feats which feels bad. Luckily slayers get a lot of those.
Regill is definitely awesome I just need them to give him more content.
@@SlanderedGaming Yep, Grumpy Grandpa Reg the Murder Gnome is great.
"Being an azata? That's a paddlin'."
"Lookin' for the commander? That's a paddlin'."
"Giving out healing potions to the wounded? That's a paddlin'."
"Not being a Hellknight but a pansy paladin? Oooh, you'd better believe THAT's a paddlin'."
th-cam.com/video/sKiLfH3DVGc/w-d-xo.html
Make him a Gendarme, put him on a cat and CHOOOORGE.
FYI you don't have to choose between killing the inquistor and Daeran going to jail. In my play through I let him go on trial and vouched for him and the inquisitor came back later saying something like due to your vouching for him he was exonerated or something like that. Not sure if that's something you have to unlock though.
Multiple people have said that and yet I never got it. Super weird. When I redo Angel for EE I'll look into it.
@@SlanderedGaming Only conditions I can think of that may be relevant is I played along with the inquisitor all the way so I guess I had a good relationship with the inquisitor, and also had a good relationship with Daeran. There was a romance option but I turned him down. This was also an Azata playthrough (so maybe have to be good aligned?)
@@alexfloyd5730 You need to not play evil mythic path, you need to accrue high trust during Daeran's questline and you need to tell him after act 2 quest one of the 2 "good" options otherwise it locks you out.
Standout thing to me was their impact to the story. When a character just becomes a cardboard cutout as soon as their business is done I struggle to keep them around. So having insight into how they develop or the gravity of their insight on story decisions is important to me, great video.
Yup I agree Owlcat did a great job with them!
Ember was my most liked, she's one of the few characters who had that little sister aura that makes you want to protect her, when I found out who burned her I just went, "oh, so you are going to die now", I don't care how useful you might have been, I didn't even want an option to romance her.
Wendulag definitely has the best romance though, slavishly evil to lovingly soft, the perfect right hand, as long as you keep her well fed...
Camellia was just an animal, she dressed up her psychopathy as needing to do it for the spirt and never tried to focus it, always kill her when it's time, I could just send her away but I feel better knowing she's in a ditch minus a head.
I kinda wanted nurah to come back, someone clearly as broken as her would have been a very interesting trickster companion.
It definitely felt like Nurah should've been a romance for the Trickster path.
@@SlanderedGaming wouldn't you need to Enlarge her or Reduce yourself if you weren't a halfling or gnome to start with?
KC: *Legendary Proportions*
Nurah: *ouch*
I ran with a weird group combo. My character was Chaotic Good Azata, but I kept Camelia alive because her character was so good to use in the party. I also kept both Sosiel and Daeren as dual healers and gave all three characters pretty good summoning abilities. I personally hated using Wenduag and Nenio so it's funny they are ranked 1 & 2 on your list. I also usually used Regill and Seelah. The only companion I happily killed in my playthrough was Regill when he betrayed me in Act 5.
The comment about Canon characters not being romanceable is true. Paizo doesn't allow it (Owl cat told people this was the reason why the Barbarian character in the first game wasn't romanceable), which is as you said extremely weird because in both pathfinder games you can kill the canon characters.
Yeah that's super weird. Thanks for confirming Paizo made that rule.
It's honestly not that surprising. In most adventure modules that paizo releases they actually have npcs listed and in the breakdowns for those characters will list whether or not that npc is romancable. And this is in Table top.
The reason the Lich path has terrible undead companions is more of a balance thing than anything else; Namely because those undead companions function more as cannon fodder to distract the enemy while you do all the damage. They are for the most part essentially stronger versions of a standard Necromancer's minions, while most powerful Necromancers have one powerful sentient minion, a Lich can command several, as we can see here. It is also entirely possible to recruit Delamere as not a slave, but in turn she will have free will. I mean if you're playing a Lich Wizard, essentially you'll be Ainz Ooal Gown or Arkhan the Black; Since Wizards can learn most spells in the game regardless of their Necromancer specialisation, even if they can't use all those spells, which is exactly Ainz thing too, basically this is the *only* game I've come across where you can role play Monomga (right down to having a succubus wifu). Since a Lich is more than capable of one shotting entire groups of enemies with AoE spells with a D20 check of 8+ and an arsenal of instant death spells, so unless you have super bad luck with rolls, facing down demons or undead of which case versing undead you simply take control of them and turn them on each other and in cases of versing demons you empower your minions to take care of them for you, so you're mostly unstoppable on your own verses everything bar anything that holds equal power to yourself, that being other ascended or bosses and for that you have companions to distract while you buff yourself up to 3 shot the bosses with massive spells that hit for a 3rd of the bosses health bar.
I also find Greybor a bit jarring because I'm so used to the Slayer look for Dwarfs from Warhammer and Dwarves from Shadowrun, where they are tattooed up and rocking awesome haircuts (the Warhammer version is shirtless). Compared to the Pathfinder game where they basically just look like normal boring Dwarves but duel wield axes. What makes it worse is that Greybor rocks the most boring haircut to ever exist, the split crown combover, add to this a neat short beard, it is uncanny for a Dwarf honestly, especially at his age, he isn't young, it doesn't look good.
Also Lann is in my opinion guilty of some game designer at Owlcat's fantasy of the perfect husbando during the game's development but since he is so heavily woven into the game they were forced to run with it. He comes off as someone's table top Pen and Paper character that was min/maxed specifically for a broken archer build being shoved into the game because his class to personality is so ridiculously incompatible it just feels this way from top to bottom (wouldn't be surprised if the OG character was an elf Legolas clone). Comes off as the developers coming up with the character, his look, backstory, story arc and personality completely separately to whoever implemented the class for him, like an afterthought. Regardless, he was poorly written and the only real way you can build him is a multishot single target sniper archer due to his bizarre class type, but it works, so I guess whoever designed it on table top knew what they were doing.
The ones that never leave my party are: daeran, regill and ember.
The ones i like to romance are: wenduag (prob my fav) and arueshalae.
The ones i dont like using from a mechanical point of view are: sosiel (dislike non-spintaneous full casters, nenio (same reason) and seelah.
The ones i don't like from a story pov are: seelah and aivu.
The ones i simply like as characters, from a story pov are: regill, trever, sosiel, arue.
The rest i'm either neutral towards, or i don't care that much (lich companions).
If anyone asks i like going demon most of my playthroughs, and mostly dislike azata feom a thematic pov.
Why do you dislike Seelah and Aivu from a story POV?
@@SlanderedGaming I dunno... I guess I'm not that much of a fan of... naive good characters I guess. Their stories kinda mirror that. Seelah has her intresting moments for sure, but those pale in comparison to how many times she's quick to let her guard down (like the drow ambush).
Aivu is one of those "you either love me or hate me" characters. Some people like her cuz she's silly, but a lot of people find her tiresome (and I actually work with a person like this IRL, and despite doing my best to help her her feel accepted, she's still very tiresome).
And how could I forget my man Greybor???
I think from a design pov he's also top, along with regill.
Personally, these are some of my least used companions. I play real time with pause, and particularly if I am playing trickster and using completely normal spell for virtually all my spell slots, the spontaneous caster penalty to metamagic is extremely painful (in turn based, you will feel this a lot less, but in RTWP, its the equivalent of going last on initiative every time, and you can also actually go last on initiative meaning the enemy can get nearly 2 full rounds of actions before you have cast your spell).
Also, Soseil, whilst boring, is very strong strong due to impossible domain. Community Domain's massive boost to AB and saves is a fantastic boss killer and can be precast on all the most difficult fights except areelu, and against baphomet, its one of the few precast buffs that wont be stripped by word of baphomet. Madness domain isnt thematically fitting, and touch of madness is honestly pretty awkward to use due to short duration and melee touch attack, but if you want to shred boss saves or hit an unhittable target, its great. Also really helps with difficult skill checks, most notably the lexicon of paradox. Its extremely versatile. And Sosiel can be quite an effective warrior with his respectable strength, glaives and self buffs like frightful aspect and divine power. I stand to be corrected, but I cannot honestly see how to make Daeran remotely competent as a warrior assuming he is levelled as a caster. Daeran is a good healer, but that's about it.
Ember is naff at everything. A witch's spell list has too many missing pieces to be a replacement for a cleric/oracle, or to be as effective an offensive caster as a sorc/wizard. You dont get haste, or the animal buffs, or weird, or sirocco, or a whole bunch of others key arcane spells. You dont get mass heal or restoration, and resurrection comes very late. Those healing spells you do get are usually 3 levels later than Soseil. People often talk about her as a hellfire ray specialist, seemingly for no better reason than that she gets the spell. Nenio also gets the spell, and will use it more effectively as she is much easier to turn into an arcane trickster, and can use metamagic so much better. And the same build that uses hellfire ray for Nenio can also get 40+ DCs on Weird. And she can handle haste for you, which is an essential buff. Its not like Ember is a realistic replacement for a divine caster, so I cannot see why I would every want Ember over Nenio. Hexes are useful, though generally become less so over time (the opportunity cost of spending a round to debuff 1 enemy gets steeper over time), but Camellia is a decent tank and melee damage dealer who can cover this base, and she gets mass heal and can easily get a full animal companion.
Seelah is not very good offensively, but is one of the 2 characters in the game who can tank somewhat competently (this may no longer be true with the magic vestment nerf incoming), and mark of justice is huge. I dont use mercs so unless my own character is both a tank and has access to mark of justice, I always take Seelah.
Regill is an OK warrior, but brings little else to the party. Greybor is quite a lot more effective offensively. Wenduag, Lann and Arushalae can all do decent damage without being in melee with a mediocre AC, and Arusalae buffs the party with ranger's bond, which is again great.
Did you do the lawful good true love ending with Daeran, so that you can avoid killing anyone and not send Daeran off to be lobotomized. That's probably the best run you can do with him, unless you are playing an evil character. Personally Daeran and Regill are my favorites, though I do agree that I wish Regill had some more personal quests.
No I was an Evil Trickster when I romanced Daeran and that was shortly after release so maybe that's why I've never seen that ending.
Don't even need to do the love ending! Get enough points with Daeran and you can just make sure that Inquisitor stays as his Guardian, no need to lobotomize him.
I'm really happy to hear you'll be doing an updated Angel run. Now that it's confirmed WOTR is coming to console (yay!), I can't wait to get my hands on it. Absolutely want to be an Angel! Definitely going to need guidance and I want to use your content. Your content is thorough and easy to understand. Supremely helpful to someone new to the genre. 😁
Yeah I honestly might stream it. By that time I should hopefully be just about finished with my Pillars of Eternity run.
Finnean Deismar outclassed - it depends on what you're up against. That _Brilliant Energy_ enhancement is often under-rated, but can make otherwise unhittable (or very difficult to hit) foes quite smackable. As long as said foes aren't undead or constructs.
Not saying he should always be equipped, but he's often quite good in some otherwise tough spots. You're not exactly wrong, but I do think you're rating his utility as a weapon a bit low.
You could be right. I'll look for opportunities to make use of him during my Demon run.
On a couple of my runs, someone used Finnean as a main weapon. As long as they weren't undead or constructs it was a very effective weapon for me. Downside was I would forget every time to swap before an undead fight.
Finnean is great is you specialize into a weapon for which there aren't a ton of great ones, fauchards and falchions, come to mind. There are a few good ones, but a maxed finnean with greater magic weapon and his brilliant energy ability are still very good
@@theshatteredsaga3965 yeah I used him as a falchion in a run and greater magic weapon helps a lot of weapons. That plus any character who gets abilities to give enhancements to their weapons = win.
As long as you have a secondary weapon for undead and constructs, there are many instances where Finnean is either the best or the second best weapon of some types on Unfair difficulty.
I would say that the lower the difficulty, the less that you actually even need to try using Finnean.
For example Finnean is a top 2 glaive and Fauchard in the game.
With our favorite noble healer, to be fair he can still be kept out of prison if your relationship is high enough, though he gets watched by the inquisition.
But even though he gets kept out of prison they still take him away right?
I think his ending slide is that he is confined to an asylum, but is not imprisoned. Semantic, maybe.
@@SlanderedGaming He is released under your parole.
@@SlanderedGaming No, if you have high enough relationship with him, and are alive, the inquisition just watches him which makes Daraen uneasy. It doesn't change your point about it not feeling much better though. Makes me wish we could make his alignment have a shift.
Biggest problem I have with Wenduag is just justifying bringing her along instead of Lann. Even if you're doing an evil playthrough, you *just* saw her betray someone because she thinks you're stronger. Hell, she even says she fully intended on betraying you before that point. What is gonna happen if the giant bug demon you just saw kill a dragon is still up in Kenabres? Sure, if you've played before you know Deskari's left by then, but your character doesn't know that, and anyone with sense would think bringing her along is effectively aiming a dagger at your own back. She's a great character, but it's one of those cases where you have to hand your PC the idiot ball for the sake of your meta knowledge.
I had issues with a few of the things said in the video
Regarding the skeleton champion: I don't think it belongs in the bottom, because while it's weak and has no interactivity it doesn't take up a party slot, it's basically a seventh party member. I would place it above the other lich party members except Kestoglyr, because they are just as bland but also occupy a space in your party that could've gone to a better companion, while the champion doesn't have an opportunity cost like that
Regarding Daeran: You say the ending to his quest has only two options, killing the inquisitor or condemning Daeran to inprisonment. This isn't actually true, if you play as a non-evil mythic path and Daeran trusts you, then his ending states the inquisitor speaks in his favor for the authorities and he gets to live free. One of his potential ending slides says he becomes a charitable person and a healer, and by the time he's an old man everyone will have forgotten what a bastard he was in his youth. I thought that was very satisfying
Regarding Seelah: She only leaves if you choose the lich in Chapter 5 (or swarm, naturally), she's perfectly chill with a demon or devil commander. Which makes it even weirder
I disagree about the Skeletal Champion because with the undead party members you still have full control over their development. With the Champion you can only choose templates which oftentimes are weak. Your correction regarding Daeran is correct it appears I haven't been able to unlock his best ending yet. Regarding your Seelah point, I didn't know that at the time and yeah it's SUPER weird.
Finnean *does* have camp monologues/discussions.
From what I've looked up number 15 - you can also romance her as a Gold Dragon and a Legend. Though those may have been added in patches recently. Finally got my copy on Xbox One. Thank you for these guides. Considering the encyclopedia you have to pour over to make a good buid (never mind play the game - since getting the quest outcomes you want can be extra convoluted) it does help a lot.
I want to do:
Demon - romance Wedulaug. Try to make both as powerful as possible (Went Invulnerable rager base class for MC so demon rage might suit the character)
Gold Dragon = Romance Aru. Try to find a way not to make her ranged (I'm not fond of that style)
* Monkerdin Sorc Dragon Disciple into Gold Dragon (Way of the Dragon with claws included baby!)
Aeon - Romance none? Probably Inquisitor/Fighter/Paladin (if I can swing alignments) Maybe Cleric with Law domain. Go Renegade because I've heard what happens to True Aeon MC.
Secret: If I can ever manage to get enough of a handle mechanically to pull this one off... probably romance Queen.
Lich - Damphyr Cleric Estelerge (I don't know the spelling) Paladin? * Call it damned by fate; or falling in the name of trying to do what's right - by any means.
Swarm??? - Not big on bugs in RL. Might try to see if I can do a solo playthrough. Will probably make me glad I only play Custom with all the settings down to "please don't kill me?" lol.
Also if Ismodae was mortal once, then she wants you to be Legend because she KNOWS that you are on the same path she took; and is directly concerned about potentially losing her job. Recall that in D&D which Pathfinder is mostly based on, a God is divine to a point. They're not infallible. The right mortal can come along and just steal their portfolio. They can be killed. They can I believe be forgotten, which leads to loss of power. There's even a handbook on Epic Destinies for D&D that might have been incorporated or expanded in Pathfinder tabletop, in which one such level 30 background to work toward is starting off as a Demigod. (Which is why the Secret ??? Route is something I'm keen on - but would have enjoyed it being less of a PITA to pull off, or an option to pick from the start)
Oh wow I didn't realize her position is so vulnerable.
@@SlanderedGaming In Baulder's Gate 2, the whole story is about the murder of - the god of murder. Who foresaw that he would die, and got it on with as many women (willingly and not) as he could, to breed his successors. Whom he very much intended to use to return to life as a loophole. Canonically he actually does, though you won't learn that from playing the series of games about it. So yeah. Level 30 campaigns and or specifically campaigns that involve playing as Gods in D&D can be done... they are just really convolutely high concept, hard to pull off for most DM's until you REALLY know what you're doing, and not as much "fun" to most players. Who often won't. But the godly realms are another potential setting, for a twist or a change. Becoming a god in D&D doesn't have to be the end of the adventure. It can in fact be the beginning. God's also have portfolios which act as sort of a power ranking. The more hats you wear, or the more of your hats are tied to primal power concepts (like Life, Death or Balance) the stronger you're likely to be, and the less likely you are to get ganked. Although that's not always true as Bhal started off Mortal, and was one of three high level adventurers that took the throne from I believe it was Jerghal. Since he was bored of his existence; and set up like Hades, without a Persephone. There's also the spell plague to consider; where the goddess of magic was slain (this was around the same time as Bhall went down, since I believe it's the event that forced most of them to walk in the mortal world and made them that vulnerable) Pathfinder is based off of D&D ruleset, but it's also got it's own flavor and context. So her inclusion and the nod to her wanting MC to be a legend is actually an awesome little tidbit. : )
Christ, I just realized I'm THAT bard. A lore geek... o. O
Have enjoyed your stuff since before the name change. I have no interest in playing stuff like swarm and lich, so it’s nice that I have you to do it for me. Also, a good path kind of ruins Camilla and I would love a Wenduag run, but I can’t seem to quit my best boi Lann. For me, though, Aivu has to be number one, since I tried an Angel run, but didn’t want to continue without my favorite little Havoc Dragon. And for Regill, I think the fact that he doesn’t change is a feature, not a bug. I always find it weird just how much control the protagonist has over the lives of the companions; I love that no matter what you do, Reg is gonna Reg.
My top 5: Aivu/Reg/Ember/Sosiel/Arue (For us Desna-following Azatas)
PS> Nice to see you picking up subscribers; you’ll be at 10K in no time!
Thank you! It's been an amazing ride and I appreciate all the support!
I prefer your wholly secret timecode list (in the description) for this specific video to totally keep the suspense for us all viewers. That's a good strategy.
Thanks glad you like it!
Undead Staunton is only _fantastic_ because even his build is in-character. It's the most spiteful, "I'm going to make bad life choices just to stick it to people around me" build ever. Possibly only Trevor's build is worse but we also know he made. . .unfortunate life choices. He's sticking a thumb in his own eye just to make things worse for his party. Very Staunton.
Staunton's build is just purposefully miserable, to share his misery. It's the opposite of the build he has when you fight him (opposite in the sense that he's quite effective, given the action-economy disadvantage your opponents are labouring under during that last Act II Drezen fight).
Yup that's why I said I don't want it to be changed. Perfect reflection of his life choices.
Awesome video, I was expecting your new ranking of companions on WTOR!
I don't necessarily agree with all your rankings (we all have our preferences, don't we? hehe), but you made some pretty strong arguments which made me rethink my thoughts on some companions.
So well done, that's probably a long video which took you a lot of time to make and thinkings and it is, in my opinion, the most complete video there is on TH-cam about companions rankings in this game.
Good job and take care ! 😉
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video!
Somewhere along the line they gave Aivu a voice. Both when she introduces herself and during the Dance of Masks events. Its every bit as adorable as it should be.
The biggest shortcoming of WotR is that you can't romance Seelah. But all the psychopaths? Sure why not. Somebody at Owlcat has emotional issues galore.
😂
I love how you manage to produce long videos that have only relevant information, even when it's just your own personal opinions. I'm sick and tired of "content creators" who manage to get me so bored or upset about wasting my time at the first minute of their videos that I just downvote them and leave. You, on the other side, are among the very few who have such long videos that are so good that I want want to watch them to the end. Thank your for all the the great information you share and congratulations for such a well done job.
Thank you! I really focus on not wasting people's time so I am glad even the long videos are entertaining.
Espionage expert is fine. Favoured enemy really hasnt been nerfed, its just they decided in a game where a massive proportion of enemies are demons, having demons as a single favoured enemy type would be overpowered (though weirdly, also included a subclass which does precisely this). However, just max out demons of magic, and take obscure favoured enemy picks for everything else (unfortunately, humans are already taken as one pick, and they are quite common). What this will allow you to do is instant enemy to apply max favoured enemy bonus to any opponent who is not a selected favoured enemy. Say if you take gnomes, fey and goblins etc, this basically means you can nearly always get your full favoured enemy bonus, and with rangers bond, give half of that to the entire party, which as an espionage expert and with her high charisma, actually works extremely well. Whatever you do, do not pick demon or slaughter or demon of strength as favoured enemy types, as it will really gimp your instant enemy usage.
I would say it is nerfed if you played Kingmaker where Fey was one category even though they were by far the largest group of enemies in the game. Your strategy for dealing with it's current implementation is definitely legit though.
@@SlanderedGaming True, but fey in kingmaker were still significantly less dominant than demons are in wrath.
@@SlanderedGaming Fey aren't omnipresent in Kingmaker until chapter 6. Whereas demons are overwhelmingly prolific in Wrath. Owlcat implemented the suggested rules for focused campaigns as Paizo wrote them. And I've never seen an issue of viability with Arue in the campaign.
Also I think evil Arue acts exactly as she should. Corrupting her is convincing her to be what she was. Monogamous succubi are like Gotham without Batman.
@@shawngillogly6873 she's a demon at that point. Doesn't need to be monogamous to maintain the relationship with the player. My demon is doing the same thing 🤣.
"Staunton Vhane is known for making bad life choices so it makes sense." Lmao. Love it.
😂
As someone who has a pathalogical need to always play chaotic good or chaotic neutral it really irritates me that so many of the more interesting companions require you to do evil stuff to keep them around.
The Lann/Wenduag split is especially irritating because I can't stand Lann at all but it takes some serious mental gymnastics to justify siding with Wenduag in the prologue as a non-evil character.
Yup Wendy and Cammy are great but if you are a good alignment it's hard to make them fit.
@@SlanderedGaming At Least my version of Chaotic Good is always up for some regicide, so keeping Daeran around is simple enough.
Seelah has a canon romance and is Lawful too.
Given the rarity of Polyamorous or Aromantic characters, and given that she's Lawful too, it's fairly difficult to justify any kind of romance.
Oh interesting I didn't know she has a canon romance.
It might come down to a matter of specs and tastes, but I feel Greybor and Regill outclass Wendu in melee and Aruaru is a better sharpshooter: though maybe it's just how I chose to spec them.
And since I screwed up her act IV questline (I didn't catch her conspiring with Savamelekh) she backstabbed me in act V even though I did EVERYTHING ELSE right (well, except I didn't romance her) so I'm biased against that wretch: seems quite an oversight, she's seen me butcher a fuck tonne of demons, some quite strong, moreso than Sacamelekh, yet she still chose to align with him. Stupid.
That being said, if you're on the Devil path, you can have Greybor sell you his soul and sign a formal contract with you in his last quest, but somehow you cannot, whilst being a devil, forgive Wenduag in exchange for selling her soul (and maybe her whole tribe's too)? Proper shame, that, they included a contract for Greybor but not for her.
I didn't realize Greybor could sell you his soul! That's awesome!
Man, I've had so much fun watching this video! Thank you so much for the effort. Amazing work. You made me pick up the game again!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it!
I have completely different list, but I'm always impressed by quality of your videos, keep it up!
Thank you!
Arue's class is something I fix by getting her at level 8 in Drezen and going Arcane Enforcer for BAB and sneaks. As for ol' Mr Jefto, I always found Eldritch Scoundrel underpowered. I went to level 4 to get STR drain off sneak then full Vivisectionist. Which has huge lol consequences for picking Abundant Casting - Woljif ends up with more 1st level spells than anyone.
On Normal/Core, I tend to end up with a lowish magic party - full divine caster (KC or Sosiel depending, Daeran is too squishy), both Lann and Rue (Lann goes Sanctified Slayer for backup heals and buffs, Rue gets an Arcane Enforcer dip for Dimension Door and sneak), Seelah (Dragonknight build, Pally/Bard/DD), and Ember. Woljif with Greater Enduring Spells makes an ideal buffbot - have you seen the sheer amount of Blurs, Mirror Images, Hastes, Heroisms, Displacements and Mage Armours he can cast, not to mention Grease, Shield and the 2nd level stat buffs? Then he wades in and shanks the baddies to death with ITWF and super-sneak.
I think my lest favorite moment in WotR was when Arushalae literally put herself in horny jail...
One last comment, My least favorite of the normal companions(Because the liches would be at the bottom otherwise) is Camellia. I got a couple of reasons.
1.I just feel like if she wasn't related to someone in the crusade, she could of been anywhere. Everyone else has a actual connection to the war with the demons but she doesn't care and just wants to murder people, with only the recent addition of slides that let her father get a win if she kills him and lives to tell the tale. The fact everyone just kind of lets her murder without issue just feel very detached as well. And other than Daraen I don't see any of them accepting her actions, those like Regill likely would think poorly of a companion who lets her do her thing.
2. The twist that she's a sociopath isn't even hidden given her blatant shouting of it from the first combat encounter, I wish they gave her some less clearly psycho shouting dialogue at the start and slowly have her being obvious as the game goes on. The necklace hiding her alignment doesn't help either when it doesn't have a use beyond that, if it increased her stealth skill then that would of been a nice way of having her justify it from another angle away from the spirit stuff.
3. She's just a tad too much for me with all her scenes and what not. I entertained it the first time, I barely let her live past that. I might of gone Lich but the ritual fetish murder and heart drinking turns me off.
4. From what I understand from online research, the npc she killed at the start would of been a more interesting companion, wish there a way to get them to see for myself but I'll have to wait to get a chance to do a pathfinder round of that.
I so agree with some of your points on her, as she's a effective combat companion and has a great voice, which is why there's this great divide on her. Makes me wish I could trade her for the Mongrels so I could have and progress both their stories naturally instead of just one.
Yup Camellia really only makes sense for Evil parties which is why I mentioned that in video and ranked her a little lower. My Demon loves her but everybody else is definitely on the fence.
Great video as always Slandered! I hope things are well with you and your family brother
I have no complaints Bradley! Hope things are good with you and yours as well!
I can see the justification for your list, so can't fault your choices. Camellia is a bit lower for me personally just because her killing crusaders just seems counter productive for most of my characters.
Obviously if you are good aligned at all she is a no go. LOL
@@SlanderedGaming well yeah, but I mean I have evil characters that would look at that to and be like "that's squandering resources. MY resources" lol.
But I also know to each their own, did end up making a Sorcerer who romanced her just to try it out.
SG I know this video is 6 months old but I am looking for advice on party members for the front line as I am about to purchase the game. In Kingmaker you had Amiri and Valerie for the front line and if need be Harrim. In WotR I assume Regill and Seelah could fill that need but Paladins are known not be the damage dealer that a fighter could provide. I don't really like playing fighters or anything requiring to be a frontliner so what do you suggest for the damage dealer/damage soak for this game? What did you find works best for you? Thanks Much.
Archers are brutal in this game so Lann or Wenduag will do a ton of damage. Paladin's don't do massive damage themselves but their Mark of Justice ability will make the entire team hit easier and do a lot more damage as long as you stack Seelah's Charisma high.
@@SlanderedGaming Appreciate it! Thanks much for the quick reply.
I feel i should say i used Daeran in an Angel playthrough, and didnt kill the inquisitor nor handed him over to be sent to jail, in the end slides he was allowed to retain being a noble rich boy, with the inquisitor visiting regular to "check up" on him. On the one hand Daeran hates that he is under remote supervision, but on the other he accepts that its only because the Inquisitor does these checks that keeps him out of jail.
Yeah I will definitely try to see if I can keep him alive in my Angel run.
Framing the choice between Daeran and Hawkblade as Good/Evil is curious.
Siding with Hawkblade is Lawful. Siding with Daeran is Good. The choice of which you care more about is super interesting to me.
I don't know if you can call siding with Daeran good if you have to murder Hawkblade and all his inquisitors in cold blood. if it was a more clear cut decision then I agree that would make it more interesting.
@@SlanderedGaming I don't know if that's considered cold blood when they attack you.
Killing someone trying to kidnap someone else is a Good action. The fact the kidnaping is sanctioned by the Law has no effect on this consideration.
I'd say siding with Daeran is chaotic because it's "for freedom" while siding with Liotr is lawful. Since I always play chaotic paths and I have no love for Iomedae and her lackeys, the choice for me is clear. On the other hand, if you play Angel it makes more sense to want the lawful ending that pleases the inquisition and doesn't doom your companion.
I'm however baffled at the amount of people who when failed to unlock the lawful good ending where Daeran doesn't go to prison, would rather condemn or even kill the companion over a stranger. You'd think someone who helped you through Abyss and back carries more importance than a guy you met twice in your life.
@@ivylilybasket I don’t know if protecting someone who is ostensibly innocent counts as “Chaotic” just because the thing you’re protecting him from is jail time.
@@sharlesdaviskendy2391 I wouldn't call it innocent, rather excused for the decisions by dire circumstances. Like, if you kill in self-defense it's still a kill, but you'd be excused.
I’ve said it before but I’m just mad that both of the main story female romances are both homicidal psychopaths evil characters, that are extremely difficult to make into good waifus. Like nice to have an untamable female option but really needed one of them to be a little less psychotic. Also, being psychotic is not the same thing as being a strong independent woman.
I know Owlcat can’t effectively make three dozen characters for the story simply for more romance options but having a decent “broad tastes” option for both genders and maybe some atypical gendered romances would be more interesting.
Arueshalae doesn't scratch that non-psychotic itch for you?
She makes me think of a certain type of person who, when they were in their teens and twenties, messed around with everone under the sun. However, when they get to their 30s or 40s, they suddenly decide they want to live a good life and settle down with one person.
@@windblownleaf6450 she is LITERALLY a succubus....
Dude same. I really wanted a female romance that doesn't make me question my morality or sanity.
@@windblownleaf6450 I feel the exact same way as you do. Though she does have a good excuse for it, this does not stop that fact from bugging the hell (or in this case abyss) out of me. She is still my favorite female character in the Pathfinder games though.
I love this video, thank you! Currently going through my first playthrough as an Azata. I'll keep an eye out for Aru... 💓
My pleasure!
Finnean does have camp dialogue its just that usually requires you to have exhausted the other party members dialogue or be alone with just another member also the camp dialogue only plays if your on a random encounter map or any place that isn't a safe location or world map.
Honestly, playing a buffing wizard, the evil companions work really well. Wolfjit and Camelia with Cat's Grace and Reduce Person from my wizard results in them almost constantly getting hits + being able to dodge and avoid attacks better. At leaast where I am in Act 1.
Yup they respond very well to being buffed properly.
Finnean's personal quests will upgrade him along the way so he can keep up with other unique weapons. His act 3 quest turns him into a +3 weapon and his act 5 quest turns him into a +5 weapon
I am 20 seconds into this video, but whatevs. I still feel like I can make an informed comment on it: Thanks for the content, and your wonderful creations for this niche diamond of a game.
LOL Thank you! Glad people are enjoying the content!
Hey, it's actually possible to resolve Daeran's storyline without evil murder *or* sending him off to jail, but it takes a combination of choices in the right direction earlier on to be able to do so.
I don't know who my fav is, but deciding who I hate the most is easy.
When I first met Nenio, I really wished that OwlCat allowed me to go full murderhobo. Unfortunately, they seem a lot less willing to let the player kill off their NPCs than other CRPGs.
Yeah she's not everybody's cup of tea. 😂
Got to be honest, mechanically, she is great, and Nenio is one of the most genuinely funny comic relief characters I have seen in CRPGs. I also appreciate that her unseriousness is restricted to herself. For example, Ember's ridiculous ability to convert seemingly anyone to the cause of good with a brief interaction is totally implausible, and when affecting actual demons feels jarring, whereas I am willing to given Nenio's implausibility a free pass, because it doesnt feel like the game wants me to take it seriously.
i found her personality extremely grating and unfunny
I found i really liked the conversation between seelah and arue. It always feels real, like would a Paladin really just kill demons even if one was a known traitor to the demons and a follower a good god, or would she see this as a divine sign and someone to support? Imo in a world were gods are real and active a paladin would definitely support the demon
They added voice acting to exactly one scene with Aivu, and its immedietly after taking drezen, shes got a cute little accent too
It is interesting how very very different the rankings are for every player... (the ones without reactivity I wouldnt even consider party members just mercenaries... Honestly THIS single aspect is why I wouldnt choose lich for an evil playthrough. I just cut out too much immersion with the silent drones following me)
Yup it's definitely a problem for some players. For me I think it adds to the rping aspect because honestly being a Lich is a lonely road. You are not raising all of these people to get more conversations.
@@SlanderedGaming Indeed but we know they keep some sort of a personality and opinions. Ciar hates you. Delamare too. Galfrey doesn't care. Staunton serves willingly.. etc. So they are not really blank slates. Ofc you could raise them as brainless undead and it would fit the theme but .. storywise you didnt. They have opinions etc. So it might as well have content attached to it.
I didn't played wenduag romance but from what i have seen about her personnality is than she is desciptable because she is evil , she seem a little dumb and her morality about the strong who win don't even make sense with what she does .
They are many moment in the game when you can see than than she is just mean to people and do evil thing just because she randomely decide it like the moment when she kill the shopkeeper (i didn't remember her name ) it was purely free , also she don't hesistate to betray you with some time really dumb justification who don't even work with what was etablished earlier about her morality
i think than i even prefer camelia even if she is a little anoying because at least the writer didn't even try to explain her action with really weird thing and she is much loyal and honest (sad to say this lol.....) than wenduag camelia seem less hypocritical than wenduag
Not sure I would treat swarm clones as a companion personally. Also, the fact that they duplicate your exact character has the significant drawback of meaning they want the exact same gear as your character, which is a serious problem for most character builds. You will also seriously struggle with skill checks in most cases. Low gear dependency builds like kineticist probably work best.
Playing as Swarm you need less skills than other playthroughs. I don't bother with Trickery and Religion doesn't matter. I went with Vivisectionist and didn't regret it. Does require to make potions and scrolls beforehand though so you are prepared to solo.
@@SlanderedGaming If you play one again, taking magic nullifcation alongside your rank 9 swarm immunities drastically reduces incoming damage. Very little can actually hurt you.
@@notalefty999 Nice I'll keep that in mind.
Daerans quest can be completed without either dieing or getting carried off to prison... So not sure what you're talking about there.
Several people have mentioned it but I never experienced that. Will definitely try to go for that when I do my Angel run.
Ember is best girl, fight me!!
Wenduag as a throwing axe rowdy fighter is just AMAZING once it comes online for fully dual weilding them, she is a goddamn machine gun turret that just gibs demons to bloody chunks and cackles like a madwoman while doing it.
to me, seelah and woljif give off friend/sibling vibes, which is why i don’t think they let you romance them. as for nenio, it doesn’t really seem like it would be in character for her to pursue, reciprocate, or desire a romantic or sexual relationship (aside from the purpose of documenting such practices, of course)
I've found it rare to find people who appreciate characters outside the mechanics. *slams subscribe button*
I'm a GM of the tabletop game, including Pathfinder Society (the thing Hilor and Finnean are part of), and I've seen characters that may seem jarring between build and personality (heck, I play a few myself). But mechanics do not define personality. I mean heck, even within Golarion, one thing that means something to one character, can mean something different to other characters.
Weaving mechanics into your characters' personality can be fun. But it should never define everyones' character imo. And it's so refreshing to see someone else appreciating some interesting characters for their actual character, not "eh, I don't like their mechanics, so the character sucks overall".
Thank you! For me personality and story matters significantly more than mechanics when it comes to party members so I am glad that came through in the ranking.
Personally with ember I take it as if she is locked at a childish level by the trama of being burnt with her father I find a very heart breaking story if they can move me enough to shed a tear then I will always remember that character, I use the same theory when I am running my evil D&D campaign if I as a story teller knows what makes my players tic I will use that.
I played a Lich and romanced Daeren early game, but didn't finish his questline.
During my Lich transformation, Zacharius wanted me to kill Daeren and of course I did it for the powers I would get, which meant I got attacked as soon as I was about to kill him.
Combine that with the whole shit show that is happening during the complete Lich Transformation act, adding the Daeren Situation made all of this a beautiful mess which became the most memorable moment of my playthrough :D
Nice! Yeah the Lich Transformation was done very well in this game especially if your romance was still ongoing. I romanced Sosiel so unfortunately there wasn't even an opportunity to sacrifice him.
I bought this game yesterday on sale. I am already hooked.
I really enjoy Regill's black and white stance on everything. Lawful Evil to the letter.
He has really nice banter with Lann who is Lawful but not to that extreme.
“Remember my name, Wenduag”
*proceeds to crit 1-shot the enemy boss that put 5 other party members to death’s door*
“Yes I will remember you name silly cat”
Ahhhhh good times. 😂
Fun fact you can also kill Seelah when you try to kill her friend Jannah at Molten scar in act 3. She frees her friend before you can and the game gives you an option to kill her then too
after dropping the first game several times and never finishing it as i couldn't really get to like my party members (a similar issue i currently have with BG3) i might actually give it a try after seeing these possible companions when i get my next vacation. There are still just a handful that seem atleast remotely interessting but atleast it's something...
Nice I hope you enjoy it.
Thanks Lann, you’re so awesome Lann
Jokes aside my favorite party member was Arue. Yes a cliche answer but. I’ve always been attached to my rangers, I always had Ekun on my team in Kingmaker and this time I get a Ranger but I can romance her? It’s just a coincidence I usually play my characters as worshippers of Desna, even in the tabletop
Ekun was AMAZING.
You can say that the Skeletal Companion is pretty *bare bones*
😂
The Succubus when following recommended path is so lethal it’s tediculous
Yeah I feel like all the archers do their jobs well.
Woljif: "Hey, wouldn't it be such a shame if I was literally one skill rank away from entering Arcane Trickster at level 5?"
Nenio: "Want to see me kill half of this group of demons with Weird? ...want to see me do it again?"
😂