my 73's engine doesn't have high pressure relatively speaking. it has about stock pressure because it's a nearly stock oil system and a new build. when these motors get old the clearances increase due to component wear and the pressure drops.
Hi Scotty, great research ! I've read those oil pressure mapping diagrams a lot. If you go to the last image with the 30mm pump with the integrated oil filter, you can see the higher pressure .. puts the oil cooler into a near constant state of bypass mode. My conclusion of reading those pressure, temperature, rpm mappings .. it seems like most of the larger pumps larger than factory size, would put the oil cooler relief valve in a constant state of bypassing the oil cooler, especially at the 3000rpm cruising speed. I can't see how the larger oil pumps are better, maybe at lubricating, but not at cooling. Vw clearly designed the oil system's first priority is for protecting the fragile oil cooler. And the second priority, the oiling system for lubrication can be fed from two directions. It's my personal belief that running an extra oil cooler or oil filter requires more pressure, mostly because the oiling system is a closed loop. Maybe there is a case for using one size larger for an older engine with an oil cooler and filter. So, in the end, I'm not sure that a new tight engine should require a larger pump, for fear of putting the oil cooler in a constant state of bypassing, and having no oil cooling while driving, except when letting off the throttle, coming to a stop. Well,food for thought.
unless the engine builder has done something like the hvx mods, for most of us there should never be a reason to increase the size of the pump. yes, i've read about the extra pressure from the 30+mm pumps forcing the cooler bypass valve to open. yup, makes sense. however, the aftermarket industry does make stronger than stock springs for that valve and that problem. maybe i should do a vid on the topic of inline resistance such as oil coolers like i have. if you want some food for thought, try reading about positive displacement pumps at wikipedia. thanks for commenting.
At 2:26 is it okay to run these filters? I heard the filter gets hot since it’s near the exhaust causing higher oil temperatures? But they sell a lot of them?? My motor is a 74, and had a semi auto stick before. So the oil pump looks odd. I need to change it. Certain millimeter pump I should run? It’s all’s to stock.
for all stock, i'd go with a stock 26mm. if you run a filter pump, you don't have to run a 1qt filter. try finding a smaller filter. small filters are out there and will fit with better clearance. if i'm not mistaken, this is the filter pump to buy www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1791.htm
@scottyc9365 I'm not sure those C.B. Performance oil pumps function as stated "filtering the oil 100% of the time" Bob the oil guy, demonstrated that those styles of filters ... are in bypass mode at anything over idle pressure. Mostly because thick oil or a clogged filter would starve an engine of oil. The shocking part is that when the oil filter is in bypass mode, it's now flushing/scavenging the once collected dirt out the filter and pumping it back in the engine. This is because of the way an oil filter goes into bypass mode.
🤔suggestions? i think the channel has limited appeal. the young people don't sub. i just had a young non sub guy in a round about way stumble across the channel, thank me for info, and ask a question. youtube can show me if i picked up a sub at that time. i did not. so the non sub got a short reply: go read at thesamba.
@@redshirt-scotty I would recommend something like, vw air/cooled tech vlog by Scott C. Or vw Bug/Beetle tech vlog by Scott. Your channel has a lot of engineering information.
@@vintage76vipergreenBeetle i've received comments about mythbusting so how about vw mythbuster scotty c. i don't know. i project 1000 subs about this time next year. i'll get there eventually.
Very interesting but doesn't account for back pressure or resistance of oil. The more difficult it is to push the harder it is for the pump. So you can go too big and it can be worse than those calculations. A tight engine with very little bleed a large full pressure filter and oil cooler will definitely need more pressure but will also take more power to push. A older looser engine that bleeds alot more needs the bigger pump to fill the need as it losses oil to bleed off faster less power needed to push that larger pump.
if you're interested in oil pumps and want a bit of mental exercise then read the following jake raby quote that i scarfed off thesamba: "First off you must all remember that bearing clearances, RPM range and oil viscosity. Variables make it impossible to make general rules or statements concerning pumps, pressures and HP ... centrifugal force of the crank is what feeds the rod bearings-". the first portion of that statement is about oil pump HP. then investigate the borings in the crank that lead from the main bearings to the rod bearings. think about the centrifugal pressures in the borings. there can be a problem with those pressures. you should be able to define the problem in one word. what is that word?
Thanks man
How are you able to have such high oil pressure?
my 73's engine doesn't have high pressure relatively speaking. it has about stock pressure because it's a nearly stock oil system and a new build. when these motors get old the clearances increase due to component wear and the pressure drops.
Hi Scotty, great research !
I've read those oil pressure mapping diagrams a lot.
If you go to the last image with the 30mm pump with the integrated oil filter, you can see the higher pressure .. puts the oil cooler into a near constant state of bypass mode.
My conclusion of reading those pressure, temperature, rpm mappings .. it seems like most of the larger pumps larger than factory size, would put the oil cooler relief valve in a constant state of bypassing the oil cooler, especially at the 3000rpm cruising speed.
I can't see how the larger oil pumps are better, maybe at lubricating, but not at cooling.
Vw clearly designed the oil system's first priority is for protecting the fragile oil cooler. And the second priority, the oiling system for lubrication can be fed from two directions.
It's my personal belief that running an extra oil cooler or oil filter requires more pressure, mostly because the oiling system is a closed loop.
Maybe there is a case for using one size larger for an older engine with an oil cooler and filter.
So, in the end, I'm not sure that a new tight engine should require a larger pump, for fear of putting the oil cooler in a constant state of bypassing, and having no oil cooling while driving, except when letting off the throttle, coming to a stop.
Well,food for thought.
unless the engine builder has done something like the hvx mods, for most of us there should never be a reason to increase the size of the pump. yes, i've read about the extra pressure from the 30+mm pumps forcing the cooler bypass valve to open. yup, makes sense. however, the aftermarket industry does make stronger than stock springs for that valve and that problem. maybe i should do a vid on the topic of inline resistance such as oil coolers like i have. if you want some food for thought, try reading about positive displacement pumps at wikipedia. thanks for commenting.
At 2:26 is it okay to run these filters? I heard the filter gets hot since it’s near the exhaust causing higher oil temperatures? But they sell a lot of them??
My motor is a 74, and had a semi auto stick before. So the oil pump looks odd. I need to change it. Certain millimeter pump I should run? It’s all’s to stock.
for all stock, i'd go with a stock 26mm. if you run a filter pump, you don't have to run a 1qt filter. try finding a smaller filter. small filters are out there and will fit with better clearance. if i'm not mistaken, this is the filter pump to buy www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1791.htm
@scottyc9365
I'm not sure those C.B. Performance oil pumps function as stated
"filtering the oil 100% of the time"
Bob the oil guy, demonstrated that those styles of filters ... are in bypass mode at anything over idle pressure.
Mostly because thick oil or a clogged filter would starve an engine of oil.
The shocking part is that when the oil filter is in bypass mode, it's now flushing/scavenging the once collected dirt out the filter and pumping it back in the engine.
This is because of the way an oil filter goes into bypass mode.
@@redshirt-scotty th-cam.com/video/dJ7ChsZCmJo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=PEZiW4f0owNZVT0f
Nice information. I would recommend changing the name of your channel. It should help you get you more subscribers.
🤔suggestions? i think the channel has limited appeal. the young people don't sub. i just had a young non sub guy in a round about way stumble across the channel, thank me for info, and ask a question. youtube can show me if i picked up a sub at that time. i did not. so the non sub got a short reply: go read at thesamba.
@@redshirt-scotty I would recommend something like, vw air/cooled tech vlog by Scott C. Or vw Bug/Beetle tech vlog by Scott. Your channel has a lot of engineering information.
@@vintage76vipergreenBeetle i've received comments about mythbusting so how about vw mythbuster scotty c. i don't know. i project 1000 subs about this time next year. i'll get there eventually.
@@redshirt-scotty vw Bug/Beetle mythbuster vlog
ok, i'll change the name of the tech playlist. how about for right now, i change the channel icon. something with my bug in it. how's that?
Very interesting but doesn't account for back pressure or resistance of oil. The more difficult it is to push the harder it is for the pump. So you can go too big and it can be worse than those calculations. A tight engine with very little bleed a large full pressure filter and oil cooler will definitely need more pressure but will also take more power to push. A older looser engine that bleeds alot more needs the bigger pump to fill the need as it losses oil to bleed off faster less power needed to push that larger pump.
back pressure is pressure. covered it. resistance is pressure. covered it. what's you're point?
Thanks, good to hear.
if you're interested in oil pumps and want a bit of mental exercise then read the following jake raby quote that i scarfed off thesamba: "First off you must all remember that bearing clearances, RPM range and oil viscosity. Variables make it impossible to make general rules or statements concerning pumps, pressures and HP ... centrifugal force of the crank is what feeds the rod bearings-". the first portion of that statement is about oil pump HP. then investigate the borings in the crank that lead from the main bearings to the rod bearings. think about the centrifugal pressures in the borings. there can be a problem with those pressures. you should be able to define the problem in one word. what is that word?