That’s a ton of work! People better appreciate all the time and effort you’ve gone through to entertain as well as educate us. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
The data that you are sharing is phenomenal, usually safeguarded by performance shops. Exceptional presentation and rapid fire information. This is better than the pyramids.
Thank you for taking the time to do all these tests and sharing all of the great information you have amassed over time. I really appreciate you running test on products that are actually obtainable for most gear heads and not showing us some one off exotic setups that most guys can't hope to afford. Please keep the great videos coming.
Time for a sloppy test please. Elgin 1839, 1840 and a 1841 in a 5.3 and a 6.0. You’re a great man Richard. God bless you and your family and have a great day.
David Denman Elgin has been over shadowed by the new Summit cams. Elgin’s have the chop but don’t perform as much as the summit cams for the same price.
I love watching Richards video's. He does such a good job. I'd be very happy to see him try to do a Max torque build for a 5.3l. He is a master at showing us what we need for our LS &Mod Ford addictions, but a torque build would be cool.
The stage1 is very good on a 5.3 with a ported set of 706 heads with 2.0 intake valves. The only thing is mine killed 2 4l60e's 😂 i put a small converter in it 2500stall perfect daily driver.
Outstanding comparison and this was just what I was looking for. I'm doing a 5.3 swap into a 93 Jeep YJ out of a 2001 Tahoe and this video settled it. BTR stage 1 is THE cam for what I have planned. Thank you!
@@bobowlowgrowing6387 I think any of us who have ever overcammed a car are pretty quick to know the disappointment of chasing that last little bit of peak power. You spend every moment driving the car trying to convince yourself it's "not that bad."
Would you guys recommend 220R Texas speed on my 6.2 swap GMC Sierra? Or should I go bigger? I want the most out of the 6.2 l92. Even if it’s springs and stall.
John Smith rec port heads want more exhaust 220r is equal it won’t make as much as it would with more exhaust I would call Texas speed and tell them what you want and the heads you have they will let you know which cam is better for low end and which one is better for high end
I got the stage 1 cam in my 5.3 with long tubes. It really woke my truck up, especially after I got it tuned. I regularly drive from Houston TX to southern Tennessee (800 miles one way) and the truck does great cammed.
The stage 1 is the best for a truck application. It offers close to the same or more around the low mark and improves with rpm. That low end is where my truck lives most of it's life.
Richard did this test in Truck Trend back in September. +20 ft/lbs at 3000. www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/1909-truck-torque-adding-cam-muscle-counts/
I went with a SUM-8718 torque cam and need some info on tuning the ECM/TCM. I'm running 35" BFGOODRICH and want the torque to move this truck along. My question is which tuner to use. After the cam installed and put back together kinda runs like 💩🤷♂️ I bought the Diablosport Predator 2 and it doesn't change the parameters. I'm stumped. I can send the ECM/TCM out to be programmed,but will it keep the stock tune available. It's a stock 2008 Avalanche w/a 5.3 ls. She's my daily,so I'm looking for dependability. I did the swap because the AFM lifters in #1 cylinder crapped out,so I figured I'd get rid of AFM altogether.
You are the man. Alot of people use these cams not just in trucks but daily type builds, light and heavy. It really gives you the info to make an informed decision for any application.
Hey man ive ran lighter truck thanmu 5.3 gmc sierra 4x4 and my top end is strong torque is awesome due to the 456 gears. Like he said you loose torque going bigger
While I appreciate the relatively huge gains with the stage one cam vs stock, I think I would have to go with the stage 2 cam. It seems like it only gave a little away down low for a really big bump in power at the top.
the stage 1 is having your cake, the stage 2 is riding the line between having your cake and eating it too, the stage 3 crosses that line and your just eating cake.
That stage 1 cam in a LQ4 with 706/862 heads and LT headers sounds like the combo I'll do for my Express 3500 van. I pull a small travel trailer and haul dirtbikes with it. I'm hating the bone stock setup after selling my LQ4 with cam and headers in my Silverado 2500. I was going to go with the Stage 2 BTR cam but man that stage 1 cam looks like an over-achiever! As always, thanks for the no-bs info and TONS of work you do on these Richard.
I kept this video in mind as I built a 5.3L (LMG) with the BTR stage-2 truck cam. I also used the TBSS intake and 706 heads. I didn't have headers, so I had to use the stock truck manifolds. My engine made 425 hp/408 tq. Please keep making these videos. Your channel is a gear head treasure trove!
Thanks for doing this video and showing us all the various setups. It’s cool you stuck to the truck cams. That stage 1 for the 5.3 makes a lot of difference, I agree that the stage one is the perfect cam for a daily driver and performance when you press on the pedal. Thanks Richard
Nice video! I had a stage 3 truck cam in a 6.0 LS2 Corvette and the loss of torque down low helped the car work better. It was a beast on the street where traction was limited. The extra hp up top was nice as well. I ran a factory converter with it, too.
I am running a BTR stage 4 V2 truck cam in my 370 lq9 with 862 heads. Combo is strong for an NA truck engine, and makes gobs or torque. I am running the truck intake, and it still makes power past 6k. Odd they didnt send you a stage 4 which makes good power down low. I even run with a stock converter at Denver altitude. Cant wait to see what it's like end of next month when I move to florida.
I agree If I had to pick one I would also go stage 1. I don’t want to loose any low end torque as that is most valuable to me personally being my truck spends most of its time below 3,500. Now only if we could get that kind of a gain down low with just a cam!
I'd like to see comparisons of cams which claim to be torque cams. That includes standard truck cams but also the PDS cams. Great tests though Richard and thank you for the excellent content.
MrVettelovralexand2 I agree 👍. It would be cool now to run the centrifugal blower cam stage 1-3 and PDB cam stage 1-3 (NA). Just to see the difference in power curves.
Given that even fairly large cams like the sloppy stage 2 add torque at lower rpms there doesn't seem to be much point in going with the pure "tow" cams except maybe fuel economy
@@chipcurrey653 A truck cam and tow cam arent exactly the same thing. Tow cams are for trucks but like you said are aimed at low end TQ, fuel economy but keep it driveable because obviously its just for street use. Truck cams on the other hand are all about TQ due to the weight and set up of truck engines vs the car variants of different sizes, power bands and weight for the cars they start in. A truck cam for a 5.3 isnt ganna work well for say a LS1 or LS3.. Some literally arent even compatible.
Just put torque cam from Btr. On my worn out 07 yukon. Beefed up valve springs and had my 799 cast heads 3 angled. Gibson cat back and volant cold air. Hyper tech tuner. Extended my old valley cover plate. Put it in the spare battery tray with zip ties. 1500 miles. Big low end power. Noticeably better.
I bet the stage 3 cams would show a more significant gain with an intake manifold more suited to the RPM range that those camshafts want to run in. I wonder how much different the power curve would look with an LS3 manifold on the rec port 6.0 Liter...
Test the SUM-8714 truck cam and summit series vs non truck cams. Since 90% of us are using truck motors for old trucks. I want to see if I should give these truck cams the time of day for my c10 or just run a Summit car cam with high end HP and some sexy overlap.
got a 88 silverado lq4 swapped, 243 heads, long tubes, 3k stall, 4l80e. went with gpi low lift stage 2 truck cam. i really like it and glad i went with it. i think a lot of people go with crazy cam choices just for the idle sound
Thanks Richard ! I am rebuilding my 04 5.3 Silverado and I believe the results for the stage 2 BTR with a 3200 stall will be the right choice for what I'm looking for . And all because of your video ! THANKS !!
But this is an LY6 not an LQ4. Every time he does a 6.0 vid it's never an LQ4 or 6. This not going to be the same on an LQ4... I clicked on this looking to find out what cam swapping my LQ4 will do and I'm still wondering what cam swapping my LQ4 will do.
Pretty awesome information. I would like to see the BRT truck torque cam in those two. It would be interesting to see how much if any the .202 single pattern would do against the .191 stocker.
Another great set of tests! Always cool to remind folks that headers DO provide a HP/TQ gain, but not the "+30-50HP" gains we hear about on the ol' internet. Real tests. Real parts. Real results. Subscribed for a reason!
Bought 1” 3/4 long tubes a year ago, loved my 6.0 g8 btr stage 2. Benefit of my crew cab 3/4 ton is it’s a stick shift, might have to go stage 3 this time!
Stage 1 all the way if your gonna be towing! Glad to see the pull done down low and while I agree your not gonna be wide open at 3000 rpm I can only assume that even part throttle power would have the same graph as WOT. So knowing that your not gonna loose part throttle power at say 2500-3500 is great to know since that’s we’re I spend most of my time.
I just wish there was a good way to build low end torque. I want some gains down low rpm while I'm in big rolling hills without downshifting all the time. I hate climbing hills at 4k. My truck won't settle in. It's either dropping r's or downshifts and won't stop gaining r's. 😏
Now that was a great test covered the bases. Towing is done at 2200-3500 rpm except for hill climbing. So the power in the lower rpm range is important. Hill climbing is done at 5800 rpm -6500rpm so those big improvements between 4500-6500 is great.
I agree. Who tows at 6,000rpm's? Peak power is kinda pointless unless it's for racing. Maybe it's good for kick-down when climbing a hill or something? Street/Strip needs a cam that puts the power in the "right place" for the desired intent of the vehicle.
+100. I kick my 5.3 Tahoe pretty hard on the street, but even then I rarely pass 5500 rpm. 2k-5k is where its at for most daily driver type applications. So, Stg 1 for sure.
I've got a 4.8l with a nv4500 on the back of it. I can give a flying f about "getting a converter" I want that torque at 2000rpm by the way thank you so much for all your hard work!
Almost 25k subscribers! Great work ! Would love to see how some added compression via head milling .030 or so would add trq and hp, maybe overcome any losses from the larger cams down low, and possibly gain more everywhere else.
So based on this awesome video my 6.2 truck motor with pro flow edelbrock and sloppy stage2 will be 525hp and 508 torque. Definitely getting long tubes. Love ya Rochard.
Great work! I always get razzed for using smaller cams in trucks but they always seem to respond better. Would love to see 6.2 vvt cam vs standard cam dynos. I can see that being a time consuming adventure since you would have to tune the vvt cam to get most gains but I have been impressed with stock l92 cam and tuning cam tables.
Would love to see some work with the 5.7 LS we get in here in Aus and 6.0 found in the VZ toVE (G8 and GTO) -Giving valve clearance to stop the valve lifting off the seat and losing comp -Lowering oil pressure to mitigate pumping losses -Hand lapping valves -Running the correct plugs to be able to run the engine harder with timing before having Detonation occur -Different types of push-rods to see how much power is being lost with rod deflection along with adding power with different rocker ratios and springs. Would be interesting to see if the curves up top flat out rather than rolling over
Pumping these videos and knowledge out like clockwork! Great work. And by far the best and most straight forward info available for the average guy who wants to go FAST!
do you have a test for BTR vs TSP truck cams? I noticed the TSP truck cams have higher lift. And according to their dyno their stage 3 doesnt loose anything on the bottom end
Richard, would you do a comparison for (low end torque cams)? I think the main manufacturers all have one, BTR, Texas Speed, Comp, etc. I'd just like to see which one is actually the best. Also, I'm curious if people ever put engines on dynos and test them at 50% throttle to see what happens.
Great info! Needed it a month ago lol Just installed a BTR stage 3, 1.8 roller rockers, and a Circle D converter in my 5.3 Silverado...haven't driven it yet, but excited. Keep sharing knowledge!
What cam would you recommend for a 2001 2500HD with an LQ4 and 4:10 gears, pulling a 7000 lb trailer? Obviously, from this test, it would be the stage 1 cam. Is there another cam you know of that would offer a larger low end torque increase? Thanks for all that you share. I really enjoy your videos.
What a great video! I put a btr stage 3 cam in my truck with a tbss intake and prc ported heads with headers and a 2600 stall converter and it runs very strong. This gives me an idea oh what hp and tq I'm making since I havent put it on the dyno. Thanx for the awesome video!
Lobe seperation on the stage 3 truck cam is 110° according to my cam card that I got with my cam. It dont have any benefits before 3000 rpms but it starts kicking in after that. Mine is a 4.8 litre..
Been really enjoying your LS vids - have had my head stuck in last century with H-D and BBM stuff... the big power available from these newer engines with better port and chamber design is so cool I'm guessing the cams you tests are made to drop in without notching the pistons. Bypassing that parameter, I think would open up the possibility for more gains But, looking at all the curves you put up today, especially the difference between stages two and three makes me wonder if there wouldn't be a pretty sizable gain available by going larger on duration, but tightening the lobe center. My guess here is that the wide LSA is pushing the intake valve closed event later and later, which is beginning to hurt low-end power. Tightening the LSA should allow enough intake valve open time for increased high-end breathing, but without holding the valve open so late as to start hurting the low end I would expect as the overlap goes up that the difference between stock manifolds and headers would become greater, as the exhaust has more of a chance to influence the intake during the increased overlap. I've seen plenty of Dyno tests on Harley engines (which often run real tight LSA) where a pipe can make or break a combination. Yeah, idle quality would suffer. And yes, a guy would have to notch the tops of the pistons - but I don't see it being a horrible undertaking to do this for the guy who's already got the engine out for a swap, or is assembling one. After all, you don't whinge at all about pulling things down to gap the rings for a boosted combo... And I suspect it's where some more low-buck gains could be found
the wide LSAs are more to help the EFI cope by smoothing out the MAP sensor reading and keep the idle low and more stable... among other things. Unless they have improved that tuning/sensor aspect recently, thats why we always ran a wide LSA in an EFI engine. EFI really smooths out a choppy idle, but it becomes a problem at a certain point.
I grew up following the older guys with Chevy and Chrysler. Recently like the nissan vk56 motor... but for its design, I really consider it a failure when a 4.8 or 5.3 can make more power than a vk56. Love the work you do
Richard Holdner. Stage 1 is awesome. dam, 400 hp! Even with a cam(s) on the vk56, you cant get that result. I'd be happy with 400 hp, I got a bump in fuel mileage with a little more HP and a intake manifold opened up. I wonder where the sweet spot is for brake specific fuel consumption between mileage and grin. I wish Calif would allow engine swaps, I'd swap to an LS or Ford.
The engine will make its power regardless of converter. Changing the converter just changes the rpm at which the engine is actually being loaded. A higher stall, allows more rpm before loading the engine, so it is further I to its torque production.
Thank you for your hard work. This takes a lot of guess work for everyone. Got a LY6 with a BTR stage 2 v2, long tubes, and truck intake with Holley brains. Can't wait to get it going!! Thanks again
Keep doing God's work Rich. I saw your older videos on the Stage 1 and 2 truck cams but I'm about to put long tubes on my 2000 Z71 5.3L so I'm trying to decide between the Stage 2 and 3. I already have 4.10 gears in it, and will probably put in a Circle D 3600 stall converter later this summer. I live in the rocky mountains so this thin air hurts power and these heavy trucks need all the help they can to get off the line. Would love to see a Stage 4 cam test on a 5.3L. Unfortunately I don't see the cams specs listed on BTR's website, just a drop down to select the stages.
I'm thinking a stage 2 with a bit of converter! Maybe a turbo, with mild boost , but maybe a S-truck can live with less low end TQ, it's not like it's a 2500 crew cab, maybe a stage 3, with a 2400-2600 stall, more videos plz!
He has, but I don't know if he's done a straight up, direct comparison between the BTR Torque cam and the Stg 1 Truck cam. I'm curious about it too, since I just grabbed a 5.3 GMC truck to tow with this summer instead of my Duramax. I want to see how close it can be for light towing.
@@jesselee128able I did a google search and found where he made some pulls using the BTR torque cam. I think it was a trucking magazine article. Anyway, 37HP and 19TQ compared to the stock LM7 cam. All across the board increase!
@@jesselee128able I can't find it. Lol.. It's pretty amazing that he puts out so many content filled videos that we can't even find the one we're looking for. :)
My dads rebuilding a 67 c10 with a 05 Denali swap. I think headers and a stage 2 can is going to be far more than enough. Now I just need to find out what I need for my c8 ls3 🙌🏼. I was seeing stage 4 truck cans with springs and retails going fir $410. The 6.0-6.2 L cams were very aggressive with much more expensive hardware around 650-700
Truck cams make way more torque sooner so it depends what ya want I am going to use mine for boost so I have torque down low from the cam and top end from a pro charger
This was a very interesting test Richard. I appreciate you doing this video. I think people over cam their engines just so it will have that “choppy” cam sound.
Scott Sigmon that’s what I’m doing lol Going stage 4 truck cam for that classic lope. I’m not going to race my truck or win HP events. I just want that nice classic sound I remember on muscle cars when I was a kid. Get some nice HP gains but the sound is what I’m after. Keep that going for kids today to find the same love for cars I got 25 years ago from the old muscle guys with loud 454’s and 350’s.
CK_32 A friend of mine just changed the heads and cam (also has long tube headers and full 3” exhaust) on his 06 Tahoe that has a 5.3 and he done the Howard’s rattler cam (226 intake/234 exhaust, .525 lift, 109 lobe separation and 103 intake center line!!) and it sounds great!!! Didn’t make huge power (310hp/309tq) but definitely has that “choppy” lope that we all love to hear!!!
Scott Sigmon yea my L59 is from a 07 Tahoe but it’s going into a 85 C10 to fit the bill for that classic rumble. If it wasn’t going in a classic body car I’d just go straight to turbo haha
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That’s a ton of work! People better appreciate all the time and effort you’ve gone through to entertain as well as educate us. Thank you, thank you, thank you!
Hell Yeah!
Greatly appreciate it
I certainly do...thanks!
@@danielsherar7829 g7
Yes i was about to make the same comment😂 He put a hell of a lot of work into those engines to make this video!
Richard is addicted to data, and we all benefit because of it!
This has got to be one of, if not the best video I’ve seen explaining real world application of cam shafts. Thank you!
The data that you are sharing is phenomenal, usually safeguarded by performance shops. Exceptional presentation and rapid fire information. This is better than the pyramids.
Thank you for taking the time to do all these tests and sharing all of the great information you have amassed over time. I really appreciate you running test on products that are actually obtainable for most gear heads and not showing us some one off exotic setups that most guys can't hope to afford. Please keep the great videos coming.
Time for a sloppy test please. Elgin 1839, 1840 and a 1841 in a 5.3 and a 6.0. You’re a great man Richard. God bless you and your family and have a great day.
David Denman Elgin has been over shadowed by the new Summit cams. Elgin’s have the chop but don’t perform as much as the summit cams for the same price.
Thank you for your consistent quality content. This channel is what Engine Masters should have been.
They did one, and swapped high flowing heads as well! The heads do make a difference, that's the only thing I slightly disagree with on this video...
I love watching Richards video's. He does such a good job. I'd be very happy to see him try to do a Max torque build for a 5.3l. He is a master at showing us what we need for our LS &Mod Ford addictions, but a torque build would be cool.
I’m building up a 5.3 for an overland suburban. This was extremely helpful! Nice work!
The stage1 is very good on a 5.3 with a ported set of 706 heads with 2.0 intake valves. The only thing is mine killed 2 4l60e's 😂 i put a small converter in it 2500stall perfect daily driver.
Lots of gear and you'll be all right
@@mauricedavis2905 i want to put a ls9 cam on mine I already blew 2 40l60s 😅
@@biggo4099 time to build a solid unit 💪
Outstanding comparison and this was just what I was looking for. I'm doing a 5.3 swap into a 93 Jeep YJ out of a 2001 Tahoe and this video settled it. BTR stage 1 is THE cam for what I have planned. Thank you!
Stage 1 on 5.3 and stage 2 on the 6.0. I agree.
Yes, massive gains on that stage 1 for the 5.3...
@@bobowlowgrowing6387 I think any of us who have ever overcammed a car are pretty quick to know the disappointment of chasing that last little bit of peak power. You spend every moment driving the car trying to convince yourself it's "not that bad."
Would you guys recommend 220R Texas speed on my 6.2 swap GMC Sierra? Or should I go bigger? I want the most out of the 6.2 l92. Even if it’s springs and stall.
John Smith rec port heads want more exhaust 220r is equal it won’t make as much as it would with more exhaust I would call Texas speed and tell them what you want and the heads you have they will let you know which cam is better for low end and which one is better for high end
He has a video using the stage 3 cam with a FAST INTAKE after seeing that video it would make sense to go with STAGE 3. It is a world of difference
Man I wish I could bet on TH-cam channels like I do stocks you're going to have a big ass channel if you keep doing this ! Excellent quality! Thanks!
4:01 in the morning and I get this notification. Going hard Richard!!
😹😹😹
No sleep for the wicked
sign up for notifications ......get notifications!
I got the stage 1 cam in my 5.3 with long tubes. It really woke my truck up, especially after I got it tuned. I regularly drive from Houston TX to southern Tennessee (800 miles one way) and the truck does great cammed.
Can you report on fuel mileage with the stage 1? I'm guessing it's pretty close to stock.
@@DR-px5sh on a full tank I can go 400 miles on the hwy. If anything I gained a mile or 2.
Bet the tune woke it up more than anything.
Yes sir. Because of his videos I’m going to run 706 heads on my 6.0 to bump up compression. Stage 2 cam and of course headers in my K5 Blazer ls swap.
The stage 1 is the best for a truck application.
It offers close to the same or more around the low mark and improves with rpm.
That low end is where my truck lives most of it's life.
BTR makes a TORQUE cam as well. Be nice to see that one tested in a 5.3/6.0L. Lots of guys are looking for that low end power as you said!
Richard did this test in Truck Trend back in September. +20 ft/lbs at 3000. www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/1909-truck-torque-adding-cam-muscle-counts/
I went with a SUM-8718 torque cam and need some info on tuning the ECM/TCM. I'm running 35" BFGOODRICH and want the torque to move this truck along. My question is which tuner to use. After the cam installed and put back together kinda runs like 💩🤷♂️
I bought the Diablosport Predator 2 and it doesn't change the parameters. I'm stumped. I can send the ECM/TCM out to be programmed,but will it keep the stock tune available. It's a stock 2008 Avalanche w/a 5.3 ls. She's my daily,so I'm looking for dependability. I did the swap because the AFM lifters in #1 cylinder crapped out,so I figured I'd get rid of AFM altogether.
@@danlussierjr.9645did you ever find out?
You are the man. Alot of people use these cams not just in trucks but daily type builds, light and heavy. It really gives you the info to make an informed decision for any application.
I would like to see the most torque out of 5.3. What changes that need to be made ect. Great videos and thank you!
Hey man ive ran lighter truck thanmu 5.3 gmc sierra 4x4 and my top end is strong torque is awesome due to the 456 gears. Like he said you loose torque going bigger
Richard I just received the camshaft you sent for the cam giveaway! Your the man! This will be going in my Nova this spring!!! Thank you!
Enjoy it
While I appreciate the relatively huge gains with the stage one cam vs stock, I think I would have to go with the stage 2 cam. It seems like it only gave a little away down low for a really big bump in power at the top.
Exact reason I bought one
the stage 1 is having your cake, the stage 2 is riding the line between having your cake and eating it too, the stage 3 crosses that line and your just eating cake.
Unless the engine is run solely on the track, that power down low is where the daily driving happens...
🤔Trailblazer.. stage 2.. 😁
@@taylordiehl6594 going to install it or what brother
Awesome analysis, Richard! You made me feel better about my little 209/217 .550 cam on my LQ4. Thank you!
That stage 1 cam in a LQ4 with 706/862 heads and LT headers sounds like the combo I'll do for my Express 3500 van. I pull a small travel trailer and haul dirtbikes with it. I'm hating the bone stock setup after selling my LQ4 with cam and headers in my Silverado 2500. I was going to go with the Stage 2 BTR cam but man that stage 1 cam looks like an over-achiever! As always, thanks for the no-bs info and TONS of work you do on these Richard.
Did you ever do it? I'm thinking about picking up an express van instead of a silverado as a toy hauler (a lot cheaper in my area).
I kept this video in mind as I built a 5.3L (LMG) with the BTR stage-2 truck cam. I also used the TBSS intake and 706 heads. I didn't have headers, so I had to use the stock truck manifolds. My engine made 425 hp/408 tq. Please keep making these videos. Your channel is a gear head treasure trove!
at the crank or the wheel?
It was on an engine dyno, so that’s crank hp.
It was on an engine dyno, so that’s crank hp.
It was on an engine dyno, so that’s crank hp.
It was on an engine dyno, so that’s crank hp.
Thank you for all this effort. You've answered EVERY question I've been asking. My Silverado will be sooooo happy 😊
Thanks for doing this video and showing us all the various setups. It’s cool you stuck to the truck cams. That stage 1 for the 5.3 makes a lot of difference, I agree that the stage one is the perfect cam for a daily driver and performance when you press on the pedal. Thanks Richard
Nice video! I had a stage 3 truck cam in a 6.0 LS2 Corvette and the loss of torque down low helped the car work better. It was a beast on the street where traction was limited. The extra hp up top was nice as well. I ran a factory converter with it, too.
The LOSS of torque helped it work better? How? I have a an LS2 with factory converter and am looking for a cam. Could you explain
@@InTheHookJohnlikely because on the street traction is often very low
I am running a BTR stage 4 V2 truck cam in my 370 lq9 with 862 heads. Combo is strong for an NA truck engine, and makes gobs or torque. I am running the truck intake, and it still makes power past 6k. Odd they didnt send you a stage 4 which makes good power down low. I even run with a stock converter at Denver altitude. Cant wait to see what it's like end of next month when I move to florida.
The stage 4 will be softer down low than these
What lenght push rods you using
I agree If I had to pick one I would also go stage 1. I don’t want to loose any low end torque as that is most valuable to me personally being my truck spends most of its time below 3,500. Now only if we could get that kind of a gain down low with just a cam!
Any idea what stage level would be good to go too?
@@WalkingDead5202
Thanks for all the help with dyno results and parts swapping. I hope your getting a kickback for all the work you put into this Video.👍👌
I'd like to see comparisons of cams which claim to be torque cams. That includes standard truck cams but also the PDS cams. Great tests though Richard and thank you for the excellent content.
MrVettelovralexand2 I agree 👍.
It would be cool now to run the centrifugal blower cam stage 1-3 and PDB cam stage 1-3 (NA). Just to see the difference in power curves.
MrVettelovralexand2 yea I’m trying to find info on the stage 4 truck cam from summit the Sum-8714 but can’t find anything. Supposed to be tq heavy
He's going to do a cam showdown soon he said.
Given that even fairly large cams like the sloppy stage 2 add torque at lower rpms there doesn't seem to be much point in going with the pure "tow" cams except maybe fuel economy
@@chipcurrey653 A truck cam and tow cam arent exactly the same thing. Tow cams are for trucks but like you said are aimed at low end TQ, fuel economy but keep it driveable because obviously its just for street use.
Truck cams on the other hand are all about TQ due to the weight and set up of truck engines vs the car variants of different sizes, power bands and weight for the cars they start in. A truck cam for a 5.3 isnt ganna work well for say a LS1 or LS3.. Some literally arent even compatible.
Time to test the TUCK NORRIS cam now. Is it better than all of the other truck cams???? And does it really work without a converter????
I would like to see how Tick Performance towMax Cam's compare to BTRs truck Cam's.
Just put torque cam from Btr. On my worn out 07 yukon. Beefed up valve springs and had my 799 cast heads 3 angled. Gibson cat back and volant cold air. Hyper tech tuner. Extended my old valley cover plate. Put it in the spare battery tray with zip ties. 1500 miles. Big low end power. Noticeably better.
Thank you for loading the engines as low of rpm as possible.
I bet the stage 3 cams would show a more significant gain with an intake manifold more suited to the RPM range that those camshafts want to run in. I wonder how much different the power curve would look with an LS3 manifold on the rec port 6.0 Liter...
The LS3 intake makes exactly the same power curve as the LY6 intake-I tested that
@@richardholdener1727 good to know - learning lots from your channel all the time, and grateful you take the time to reply!
Test the SUM-8714 truck cam and summit series vs non truck cams. Since 90% of us are using truck motors for old trucks. I want to see if I should give these truck cams the time of day for my c10 or just run a Summit car cam with high end HP and some sexy overlap.
got a 88 silverado lq4 swapped, 243 heads, long tubes, 3k stall, 4l80e. went with gpi low lift stage 2 truck cam. i really like it and glad i went with it. i think a lot of people go with crazy cam choices just for the idle sound
This one is so chock full o' information I'm going to have to watch it again. Thanks Richard!!
Thanks Richard ! I am rebuilding my 04 5.3 Silverado and I believe the results for the stage 2 BTR with a 3200 stall will be the right choice for what I'm looking for . And all because of your video ! THANKS !!
Good luck!
I like that stage 2 cam option for an LQ4 6.0. Been waiting for this info. Thanks!
But this is an LY6 not an LQ4. Every time he does a 6.0 vid it's never an LQ4 or 6. This not going to be the same on an LQ4... I clicked on this looking to find out what cam swapping my LQ4 will do and I'm still wondering what cam swapping my LQ4 will do.
the gains are the same on the LQ4
@@richardholdener1727 Appreciate it, Richard.
Richard Holdener the dished pistons on the Lq4 will be lower compression
@@kevinryan5398 Ly6 also have dished pistons same as lq4
thank you so much for your time and effort to put out information on truck engines and torque
Pretty awesome information. I would like to see the BRT truck torque cam in those two. It would be interesting to see how much if any the .202 single pattern would do against the .191 stocker.
Another great set of tests! Always cool to remind folks that headers DO provide a HP/TQ gain, but not the "+30-50HP" gains we hear about on the ol' internet. Real tests. Real parts. Real results. Subscribed for a reason!
You are the best man. These tests are unbelievable good!!!
Dr. Richard Holdener at it again.
Thank you for another very informative video.👍👍
"V1" or "V2" advertised cams? Have you seen a difference between the two? Great info 👍
Bought 1” 3/4 long tubes a year ago, loved my 6.0 g8 btr stage 2. Benefit of my crew cab 3/4 ton is it’s a stick shift, might have to go stage 3 this time!
Stage 1 all the way if your gonna be towing! Glad to see the pull done down low and while I agree your not gonna be wide open at 3000 rpm I can only assume that even part throttle power would have the same graph as WOT.
So knowing that your not gonna loose part throttle power at say 2500-3500 is great to know since that’s we’re I spend most of my time.
I just wish there was a good way to build low end torque. I want some gains down low rpm while I'm in big rolling hills without downshifting all the time. I hate climbing hills at 4k. My truck won't settle in. It's either dropping r's or downshifts and won't stop gaining r's. 😏
@@jwhiteker1 Turbo
Stage 1 for towing?? Why not stage 2?
Now that was a great test covered the bases.
Towing is done at 2200-3500 rpm except for hill climbing. So the power in the lower rpm range is important. Hill climbing is done at 5800 rpm -6500rpm so those big improvements between 4500-6500 is great.
“That should make everyone happy” yay internet
I agree. Who tows at 6,000rpm's? Peak power is kinda pointless unless it's for racing.
Maybe it's good for kick-down when climbing a hill or something?
Street/Strip needs a cam that puts the power in the "right place" for the desired intent of the vehicle.
+100. I kick my 5.3 Tahoe pretty hard on the street, but even then I rarely pass 5500 rpm. 2k-5k is where its at for most daily driver type applications. So, Stg 1 for sure.
I've got a 4.8l with a nv4500 on the back of it. I can give a flying f about "getting a converter" I want that torque at 2000rpm by the way thank you so much for all your hard work!
I haven't even watched the first test and you definitely are the man.
Love the cam videos. Would like to see some ISKY and Lunati stuff.
I'm glad you brought up the fact that the cam can't tell the difference between a cathedral or rectangle port! It's all about the flow, not the shape.
Almost 25k subscribers! Great work ! Would love to see how some added compression via head milling .030 or so would add trq and hp, maybe overcome any losses from the larger cams down low, and possibly gain more everywhere else.
You should receive a Nobel Price
Roger Alexander Giron Moscoso too busy giving it to slow minded children who scream at people.
It's too expensive
@@mrmidnight32 don't forget warmongers and langaras
How dare you!
Please test BTR’s new truck Torque cam. Very curious as to the difference between that one and the Stage 1.
Yaaasss, been looking forward to this test for a while!!!
Thanks Richard, please keep the tests coming. I would love to see how you dial in the air fuel ratio and timing and how it affects HP.
Can you do some Texas Speed cams next ??
I agree. They seem to run a little more LSA than the BTR truck cams at the same durations.
@@DR-px5sh And with another .050 or so more lift than these, they seem to end the low end losses when looking at TSP's own vids compared to these.
would love to
that won't do it
So based on this awesome video my 6.2 truck motor with pro flow edelbrock and sloppy stage2 will be 525hp and 508 torque. Definitely getting long tubes. Love ya Rochard.
Great work! I always get razzed for using smaller cams in trucks but they always seem to respond better.
Would love to see 6.2 vvt cam vs standard cam dynos. I can see that being a time consuming adventure since you would have to tune the vvt cam to get most gains but I have been impressed with stock l92 cam and tuning cam tables.
I agree and think I'd go with the stage 2 on a 6.0L. Maybe a factory 1800ish towing stall.
Great videos but we still haven't seen the picture of camalot
Would love to see some work with the 5.7 LS we get in here in Aus and 6.0 found in the VZ toVE (G8 and GTO)
-Giving valve clearance to stop the valve lifting off the seat and losing comp
-Lowering oil pressure to mitigate pumping losses
-Hand lapping valves
-Running the correct plugs to be able to run the engine harder with timing before having Detonation occur
-Different types of push-rods to see how much power is being lost with rod deflection along with adding power with different rocker ratios and springs. Would be interesting to see if the curves up top flat out rather than rolling over
I think the LY6 he tested is very close to the Holden 6.0?
Awesome work, how about this same test with the turbo cams , would love to see a comparison of the different stages of turbo cam
Pumping these videos and knowledge out like clockwork! Great work. And by far the best and most straight forward info available for the average guy who wants to go FAST!
If you like swapping cams so much i wonder how much of a change the v2 truck cams are compared to the v1
its not a lot-I tested those too
@@richardholdener1727 so more of a marketing thing?
Killer video, I've been looking for this data for weeks and weeks. Thank you for all the work you do. Nice job
do you have a test for BTR vs TSP truck cams? I noticed the TSP truck cams have higher lift. And according to their dyno their stage 3 doesnt loose anything on the bottom end
Looks like the stage 1 is the way to go if you want to lose nothing and gain up top. Their torque cam is good too if you want gains everywhere
What stage level do i need if i want to gain at least 100 ft lb torque from stock?
@@WalkingDead520 a bigger engine
Wish you would have done it with cathedral port heads but still got something out of it Thank you for your help
its the same
Richard, would you do a comparison for (low end torque cams)? I think the main manufacturers all have one, BTR, Texas Speed, Comp, etc. I'd just like to see which one is actually the best.
Also, I'm curious if people ever put engines on dynos and test them at 50% throttle to see what happens.
Great info! Needed it a month ago lol
Just installed a BTR stage 3, 1.8 roller rockers, and a Circle D converter in my 5.3 Silverado...haven't driven it yet, but excited. Keep sharing knowledge!
How did it go?
What cam would you recommend for a 2001 2500HD with an LQ4 and 4:10 gears, pulling a 7000 lb trailer? Obviously, from this test, it would be the stage 1 cam. Is there another cam you know of that would offer a larger low end torque increase? Thanks for all that you share. I really enjoy your videos.
The BTR Torque cam
Great Channel
I'm wondering if you could do a video on VVT cams. Specifically dyno tuning and whether keeping VVT can be beneficial.
Thanks
What a great video! I put a btr stage 3 cam in my truck with a tbss intake and prc ported heads with headers and a 2600 stall converter and it runs very strong. This gives me an idea oh what hp and tq I'm making since I havent put it on the dyno. Thanx for the awesome video!
How much power did it make on the dyno
@@utahcountypicazospage5412 i never put mine on the dyno
What is it like daily driving with the higher stall speed?
@bradr539 I later changed to a 3000 stall converter. It really wasn't to bad to be honest.
Lobe seperation on the stage 3 truck cam is 110° according to my cam card that I got with my cam. It dont have any benefits before 3000 rpms but it starts kicking in after that. Mine is a 4.8 litre..
That is a big cam for a 4.8L-it's more than LSA
Been really enjoying your LS vids - have had my head stuck in last century with H-D and BBM stuff... the big power available from these newer engines with better port and chamber design is so cool
I'm guessing the cams you tests are made to drop in without notching the pistons. Bypassing that parameter, I think would open up the possibility for more gains
But, looking at all the curves you put up today, especially the difference between stages two and three makes me wonder if there wouldn't be a pretty sizable gain available by going larger on duration, but tightening the lobe center.
My guess here is that the wide LSA is pushing the intake valve closed event later and later, which is beginning to hurt low-end power. Tightening the LSA should allow enough intake valve open time for increased high-end breathing, but without holding the valve open so late as to start hurting the low end
I would expect as the overlap goes up that the difference between stock manifolds and headers would become greater, as the exhaust has more of a chance to influence the intake during the increased overlap. I've seen plenty of Dyno tests on Harley engines (which often run real tight LSA) where a pipe can make or break a combination.
Yeah, idle quality would suffer. And yes, a guy would have to notch the tops of the pistons - but I don't see it being a horrible undertaking to do this for the guy who's already got the engine out for a swap, or is assembling one. After all, you don't whinge at all about pulling things down to gap the rings for a boosted combo...
And I suspect it's where some more low-buck gains could be found
the wide LSAs are more to help the EFI cope by smoothing out the MAP sensor reading and keep the idle low and more stable... among other things. Unless they have improved that tuning/sensor aspect recently, thats why we always ran a wide LSA in an EFI engine. EFI really smooths out a choppy idle, but it becomes a problem at a certain point.
I grew up following the older guys with Chevy and Chrysler. Recently like the nissan vk56 motor... but for its design, I really consider it a failure when a 4.8 or 5.3 can make more power than a vk56.
Love the work you do
all engines are good-some are just GOODER
Richard Holdner. Stage 1 is awesome. dam, 400 hp!
Even with a cam(s) on the vk56, you cant get that result. I'd be happy with 400 hp, I got a bump in fuel mileage with a little more HP and a intake manifold opened up. I wonder where the sweet spot is for brake specific fuel consumption between mileage and grin.
I wish Calif would allow engine swaps, I'd swap to an LS or Ford.
What about the stage 4
John riddle I asked the same thing
Oh and looks like the btr stage 2 is all win on the 6 liter, and doesnt care stock manifolds or headers. That is a great truck cam!
Could you explain how the power would shift around when installing a different converter? Thank You ahead of time!
The engine will make its power regardless of converter. Changing the converter just changes the rpm at which the engine is actually being loaded. A higher stall, allows more rpm before loading the engine, so it is further I to its torque production.
Just found out about this channel, love the videos and how much effort and detail goes into them.
Thank you for your hard work. This takes a lot of guess work for everyone. Got a LY6 with a BTR stage 2 v2, long tubes, and truck intake with Holley brains. Can't wait to get it going!! Thanks again
Keep doing God's work Rich. I saw your older videos on the Stage 1 and 2 truck cams but I'm about to put long tubes on my 2000 Z71 5.3L so I'm trying to decide between the Stage 2 and 3. I already have 4.10 gears in it, and will probably put in a Circle D 3600 stall converter later this summer. I live in the rocky mountains so this thin air hurts power and these heavy trucks need all the help they can to get off the line. Would love to see a Stage 4 cam test on a 5.3L. Unfortunately I don't see the cams specs listed on BTR's website, just a drop down to select the stages.
a bigger can is not better on a 5.3L
Stage 1 for the 5.3. Stage 2 for the 6.0.
I'm thinking a stage 2 with a bit of converter! Maybe a turbo, with mild boost , but maybe a S-truck can live with less low end TQ, it's not like it's a 2500 crew cab, maybe a stage 3, with a 2400-2600 stall, more videos plz!
Brian tooley racing has stage 1 and also a stage 1 V2 grind, Was this the stage 1 the old grind or the new stage 1 v2 grind???
these were OG V1, I tested the others as well
@@richardholdener1727 Will you be making a video on the V2 results as well?
Awesome post and love the detailed data and analysis!
Another just what I wanted to see video by you Richard! Awesome!, Love this channel! Could you do a BTR Tow cam? 202/202 111-1. Maybe you have?
He has, but I don't know if he's done a straight up, direct comparison between the BTR Torque cam and the Stg 1 Truck cam. I'm curious about it too, since I just grabbed a 5.3 GMC truck to tow with this summer instead of my Duramax. I want to see how close it can be for light towing.
He used it in the last turbo build comparison didnt he?
@@jesselee128able I did a google search and found where he made some pulls using the BTR torque cam. I think it was a trucking magazine article. Anyway, 37HP and 19TQ compared to the stock LM7 cam. All across the board increase!
@@jesselee128able I can't find it. Lol.. It's pretty amazing that he puts out so many content filled videos that we can't even find the one we're looking for. :)
@@tptrsn www.trucktrend.com/how-to/engine/1909-truck-torque-adding-cam-muscle-counts/
My dads rebuilding a 67 c10 with a 05 Denali swap. I think headers and a stage 2 can is going to be far more than enough. Now I just need to find out what I need for my c8 ls3 🙌🏼. I was seeing stage 4 truck cans with springs and retails going fir $410. The 6.0-6.2 L cams were very aggressive with much more expensive hardware around 650-700
When is that "sloppy stage 2" cam test coming ?
Id like to see this on an ls3 also.
soon
@@richardholdener1727 sweet I cant wait to hear your opinion on it. I installed one on my lil 4.8 turbo project
Richard Holdener have you test the new btr stage2 v2 they claim to gains more power over the old btr stage 2
I'm convinced you don't sleep 🤣. How in the world do you keep making quality content at such a high rate
Dyno is my Super Power
Damn, I might use a truck cam in my Caprice PPV, waiting on the Elgin cam tests to make my decision though
Truck cams make way more torque sooner so it depends what ya want I am going to use mine for boost so I have torque down low from the cam and top end from a pro charger
I absolutely love your videos. There is so much work involved in what you do and it is very informative. Thank you so much for the good info
This was a very interesting test Richard. I appreciate you doing this video. I think people over cam their engines just so it will have that “choppy” cam sound.
Scott Sigmon that’s what I’m doing lol
Going stage 4 truck cam for that classic lope. I’m not going to race my truck or win HP events. I just want that nice classic sound I remember on muscle cars when I was a kid. Get some nice HP gains but the sound is what I’m after. Keep that going for kids today to find the same love for cars I got 25 years ago from the old muscle guys with loud 454’s and 350’s.
CK_32 A friend of mine just changed the heads and cam (also has long tube headers and full 3” exhaust) on his 06 Tahoe that has a 5.3 and he done the Howard’s rattler cam (226 intake/234 exhaust, .525 lift, 109 lobe separation and 103 intake center line!!) and it sounds great!!! Didn’t make huge power (310hp/309tq) but definitely has that “choppy” lope that we all love to hear!!!
Scott Sigmon yea my L59 is from a 07 Tahoe but it’s going into a 85 C10 to fit the bill for that classic rumble. If it wasn’t going in a classic body car I’d just go straight to turbo haha
@@mrmidnight32 I love that ratty tat tat too!
Everybody wants chop chop....
Thank you for this video. Helped me with which way I want to go with my 6.2. Im Going to do a dod delete and maybe delete the vvt as well.