Thanks for having me on to discuss all things Pyrogeography! As we said, it’s an important topic and the more knowledge that is passed on to community members, the better!
I have been watching your vids every night. You present the material in a calm manner that really helps. It is stunning how fast the Palisades fire grew in the early hours. I thought that the Mainstream media was exaggerating. I was looking for some proof in what really was going on there on the palisades ridge and now I know. The firefighters were completely overwhelmed with the ember storm. I have immediately called an arborist to do major mitigation work on the outrageous vegetation overgrowth on our property. Thanks for your work- you’ve given our family a chance to survive a wildfire and educated us even when we didn’t know we needed educating. Many thanks.
Very educational again. I was living in Alameda during the Tunnel Fire and my wife and I were considering buying a house up there previously. When we went up there a few days after it was truly numbing. And, I had seen some gnarly stuff before in life. It’s inevitably bad that new people have come in and are just ignorant of the inherent, historical hazards, builders were greedy/indifferent and laws are not enforced.
Thanks for the fantastic update guys. Really puts this disaster into perspective for those of us that are totally clueless about fires like this Very much appreciated 👍
The video clip of the ember-cast @10:56 is an excellent capture of what anyone considering hardening or defending their property should be preparing for.
Love listening to you guys talk about this. Thanks Michael Steinberg for being a part of Watch Duty. I've been a member since it began, and reading Cole Eukan's notes on social media.
What a wonderful little channel I have stumbled across. Now. I watch you everyday. I'm completely going down a rabbit hole on fires and what not now. Thank you for the education.
Sadly, I am afraid that nothing will change. People don’t listen. Too bad. Zeke, Michael you know your stuff. Keep shouting it from the rooftops! I’ll keep sharing.
Sometimes that is the only way people get educated to the need and the only way things change. I know for years the Hotshot firefighter community has been banging their heads against the wall of better pay and now finally congress is starting to talk about increasing that pay.
People would be more willing to listen if they had better options, if insurance was affordable and you could count on insurance to give you full value of you're home, if you got a break in insurance for having more fire resistant landscaping, if you got the money to rebuild somewhere but couldn't re-build in really fire prone areas. Blaming it all on the people is wrong, a corrupt broken system is just as big a part of the problem. Many people realize they have no good options and are like why try?
It's hard seeing all those houses burning but thanks for putting all this information out and providing a sane outlet for fire coverage. Your channel is literally the only place I go for fire coverage.
The hedges between houses are taller than single floor homes!! Its crazy!! The Palisades neighborhood wasn’t even close to fire wise standards. Our neighborhood in Northern CA would have had fines up the wazoo from our fire department.
Super interesting video, many thanks to both of you! At about 10 mins you are talking about the blurring of the boundary between wildland and urban fuel, you may have read 'Fire Weather' by John Vaillant about the Fort McMurray fire, he describes how the firefighters had to switch from thinking about houses as structures, to thinking about them as fuel, so they started to bulldoze firebreaks through unburnt homes about 6-8 houses down from existing structure fires to try and stop the spread. Came here via blancolirio. Thanks again!
Hey Zeke one small favor -- when you're showing Google Earth there's a compass in the top right corner showing North, that's helpful for getting oriented to the map. In future could you move THE LOOKOUT logo so it doesn't cover that compass? Anyhow, great show as usual, and highly informative food for thought.
You are awesome, informative and helpful. Your associate was obviously very caring and helpful to fire fighters and victims amidst filming. I grew up in PP and it’s sad to see. Thanks for your work!
Thank you. Our, house, one of the few that survived, was right there against the park at the top of the palisades village, right where the fire slammed in. I cleared extremely aggressively and we are pretty separated from our neighbors but we were very lucky. it was immediately obvious to me that the close packing was literally a recipe for disaster in this confluence of fuel, dryness, and high winds. Everyone just lit up their neighbors. It’s unfortunately just not viable to safely merge so tightly with nature in such a dry / windy climate - but it doesn’t seem to even require the proximity of the chaparral. The fire whipped down the ocean side of PCH blowing from house to house in the same basic way.
' I cleared extremely aggressively and we are pretty separated from our neighbors ', I would think more people would do clearing where possible. We do where I live. Remove fuel, thats definitely part of the problem.
People in LA can be very selective in their ability to hear when you're speaking negatively about something that has a big potential to improve their social standing. I think a lot of people are aware (to some small degree) of the possibility that there could be a fire someday that might threaten their home; they just assume it'll happen to someone else. I think that's also the reason why you see so many people evacuating completely unprepared. It's really sad when you see just how much people are willing to risk to win favor over the opinions of strangers.
People everywhere, tend to think "The perfect storm hasnt happened here yet, and it wont happen to me" It seems to be human nature. LA is all about packing as many people in as possible, and maximizing profit off available home building areas. Everything close together, if you want an urban forest on your lot you can have it. Just look how quick it can go south, minutes. What will be done? Start re-building much the same as it was.
The state has passed law that every cities housing element increase number of builds per year by a significant amount, especially for fully developed cities. This means building farther up into the hills or cram multifamily buildings in small cities (bulldozing churches and parks)
As a point, the neighborhoods shown of the streets in the Oakland Hills Fire illustrate the payout of replacement insurance on 850 sq ft bungalow under new codes, so basically giving homeowners a check for 2.5 to 4 times the market value prior to the fire. Most people added an additional construction loan and built a 2600 sq ft 2 story home on the same .20 acre lot. Super dense resultant neighborhood with only on- street parking on a one lane winding road.
That is hard to imagine in an era when you pay sky high insurance premiums and get little to nothing when you need it. What the hell has happened to our society?
Wow. Heavy story tonight. I so appreciate the information, insight, and thoughtfulness in your interactions and sharings here. I have an idea for future videos: discussions about building techniques in new construction that are fire resistant but, more interestingly, ways to retrofit existing structures to make them more resistant and defensible - I am thinking in particular about eves and what a danger they pose. I learned quite a bit here about landscaping dos and donts. I also appreciated your encouragement for people to get involved in fuels reduction work and get familiar with tools, PPE, pumps as to make them more capable defenders of their own properties. All interesting as hell to me. Thanks again.
As a member of a Fire Safe Council in rural El Dorado I have become keenly aware of the importance denfensable space. When I visit my brother in El Dorado Hills I am stunned by the trees and landscaping up against the expensive homes.
Thanks guys....so much. I left San Diego (& CA) in 2002. My brother & wife remained there & I recalled seeing the newspaper clippings from SD. I was horrified. If there was ever a "sign" that gave me confirmation that I left CA at the "right" time, it was seeing those pix from the paper.
I remember the Tunnel fire well, was living in the east bay then. My ex and I had good friends who lived in the Oakland hills and had to evacuate quickly. Fortunately they got out in time.
You are awesome Zeek. Maybe one of the future episodes could dig into what people who lost their homes need to do to recover, or have someone as a guest to direct them? We live in Serene Lakes full time and we are totally grateful for you and your knowledge.
In Northern California (the East Bay) a guy thought Eucalyptus would be good lumber, made a plantation. Went broke when the breakable nature of the wood was discovered. He abandoned the plantation and the tree spread and naturalized to the area. IDK about SoCal.
Yes, there are huge amounts of Eucalyptus trees in California, unfortunately they create all sorts of challenges, like the non-native palms. Locals should plant as many native oaks as possible.
Yes, since many years back, huge rows of eucalyptus have been planted as windbreaks. You see them a lot on the borders of farm land. People also use them in landscaping because they grow well in the climate and look pretty. Unfortunately they're highly flammable.
Can you discuss the root fires that we can see as well? It's a fascinating phenomena that no one really talks about and it looks like it played a role in these fires. Best and thank you for the great videos.
Are you talking about roots on fire, burning underground for long periods of time before flaring up? If that’s what you’re talking about, what role do you think root fires played in either the Eaton or Palisades fires?
@@MarcosElMalo2 There are several videos where you can see the bottom of the vegitation smoking or burning, one right beside a house and I have to wonder if it helped play a role. That said, this was one hell of a fire storm, but for cleaning out any vegitation around buildings - this would be a great lesson.
Hi Marcos, a video by Jeffostroff (TH-cam) discusses this in relation to the palisades, and the New Years fire that most likely reignited later due to incompletely extinguished below ground vegetation. This s a common problem here in Australia. He’s well worth watching.
Geez, what the heck people? The I absolutely no defensible space, nothing but fuels for a fire to come looking for. We get hammered by CALFire inspectors and insur companies here in N CA to reduce fuels.
@52:58 - Wow, on the left side of the screen…Those homes built right into the cliff. Beautiful but so risky. California is so beautiful…Some of those street views you showed are fantastic neighborhoods built into the natural surroundings.
Wow, crazy too see a documented time line! Thank you for bringing this interview. I truly hope we get away from stick built structures and over landscaped properties.
Home that survived in Pacific Palisades): What kind of ROOF [??] and what kind of SIDING used on that home [??] Thanks ... We should probably learn everythimg possible about the construction of that home .....
that area you wanna turn into a park. each home is 10-20 mil… you saw rustic canyon below - didnt burn. it typically doesnt. it has a lot of oak trees. curious if the steep canyon drop / windbreak / oak trees helped it. great video. yeah we will need to build defensible houses with true desert landscape. one thing nobody does anymore in 50s home are rock roofs.
Some years ago in the Woolsey California fire, the winds were clocked approaching 165 Mph; A concrete traffic signal post was broke in half from the intensity. In the Orange wildfire of January 6, 2003, the Santa Ana winds toppled 26 power poles. The deadliest California wildfire started near the town of Paradise, called the ‘Camp Fire’ as the 85 deaths were in the town of Camp, California, scorching some 150,000 acres. It was caused by a 115Kv power line arcing against its tower, showering the chaparral below with 5000 degree blobs of aluminum.
Duly appreciate and applaud your excellent work here to review this devastating calamity.👍 With due respect, making excuses for the Santa Ynez reservoir being empty i.e. the hydrants; But having water obviously would’ve offset an unknown amount of damage. There’s several accounts of homeowners having their own private water supply plus their pool water and 100’-200’ hoses, where not only did they save their home but several of their neighbors as well. Some have roof and eave sprinklers. Some were wealthy enough to have private firefighter contractors to supplement and even replace having to rely on city services.
He actually talks about the summit neighborhood and the factors that may have saved it in yesterday evening's video. Iirc, in the second half of the video yesterday.
The only solution to the firefighting water supply may be to run large pipes up the main roads, carrying pressurized salt water for emergencies. Thank you guys.
How do gutters worsen a homes fire risk? Is it the accumulated debris in gutters, or their shape, or what? Since gutters are made of metal, one wouldn’t see them as a fire risk. Also, do gutter guards (screens that keep debris out but allow rain water to flow into the gutter) improve fire risk? Thanks.
I lived in Forest Ranch CA surrounded by 100 ft pines, cedars, and firs. Allot of fuel debris shed onto our double wide trailer, even though I removed all the big trees to at least 50 feet around it. So I installed gutter cover that kept the gutters clean of needles. It was expensive (made of metal, and not a screen) but it would also keep embers from gathering in the gutters in a fire. I also blew off all the needles from on top of the roof with a leaf blower several times a year, especially during the dry season.
Wow, great presentation guys,👏 good info and historical accounts to review and compare. Makes me wonder if leadership would take the time or even care to see your documentation and examples and speak to you of the why and how and what to do or not do for rebuilding. I think everyone casts aspersions to insurance companies for not insuring or canceling policies but you're right, they're going to use the tools such as you use to determine it's a matter of when and not good business to stick around for the inevitable loss. So sad that lives were lost and now all the displacement and anxiety over paying a mortgage and property taxes for lost property. My heart hurts for the State of CA and our nation because we are all affected somehow. I don't think the local and state leadership there are focused on the real priorities.
What is also interesting to hear is that not only did you have the Santa Ana winds but you had a Mountain Wave (high winds aloft) that surfaced adding to the wind speeds.
As a landscaper I avoided putting down bark as a mulch. I preferred compost Compost. Compost isn’t flammable plus it quickly breaks down in the soil and provides organic matter fertilizer. So stay away from putting bark on landscapes and use compost.
1961 Bel Air Fire was basically the same thing just smaller scale. Almost 500 homes burning down 60 years ago in Los Angeles is a big number back then.
What if you "stay and defend" yet you're in a neighborhood where it is burned down, I would imagine the City would "displace" you because of the rules, etc., of safety etc., right? I hope someone can say something about this.
Like most people that don't know what they are talking about.I was about to give my opinion , but it is better to remain silent than show how uninformed I'm on the subject.
I have hope for the future because our young people are being more mindful and using wisdom to create better cities. Imagine a future (John Lennon song) Imagine!! Thank you for this wonderful episode!
So, Zeke. What do you think about Chico, the "City of Trees". Much of the city is like a canopy of forest of one sort or another. Its too green to want to burn?
So here's the thing. I looked at 10:56. The main fuel seems to be other homes, not the vegetation. I'm not convinced getting rid of aesthetic vegetation like gardens will do anything. I'm not convinced having 100 feet of clearance will be any better than spitting on a wildfire when you have a fire hurricane that is not stopped by the PCH and was only stopped by the ocean. If the PCH was as wide as the 60-57 interchange (14-17 lanes), I bet those embers would have crossed that gap too. The gaps that the embers flew were huge and well beyond any reasonable amount of vegetation clearance. What good is it to remove all of my trees and vegetation with gravel? The embers will just laugh at my gravel and land on my home. Building with concrete or brick introduces the threat of dying via earthquake. The more honest way to fight this fire is to introduce a firebreak by deliberately burning all of the unburned homes on a street that could serve as a firebreak because homes are the fuel, not vegetation. Nobody is going to actually do that but that's the deep down honest truth. My point is it seems like there is nothing we can do. To say we can prevent homes from burning up in the West is a bit dishonest. Your solutions like not building at the edge of a cliiff and having access to the rear of every property are a joke against a fire hurricane.
No I think that the house burning is what made the mulch start to burn. High density housing is the biggest problem / factor with fires like this. IMHO and 40 + years in the fire service.
Just what I thought. Knowing what I have learned over the last week, if I owned an insurance agency, id b crazy to cover homes in certain areas. It’s a hard truth, I know but it’s not being sinister, it’s being smart. Just what it is.
It's sad to me that these people in those areas aren't immediately thinking 'oh that means my home is not safe' but instead thinking they are entitled to it because 'I've lived here 20 years' or whatever.
Insurance companies gamble, but they gamble to win. They can take all the mandated money in on millions of homes for many years. Nothing happens and they make billions. Something happens they cant be paying out to everyone non stop. Shareholders matter. Corporations do not gamble to lose, there are "re-insurance" corporations that insure the insurance companies. But in general too much loss and they will pull up stakes and leave. There are people here in nor cal, the land of big fires, that are living in multi million dollar homes, and deciding to go with out insurance. And more and more average homeowners doing the same. They have to calculate the risk against the reward of paying so much money to insurance companies.
When there aren't nearly enough firefighters to protect every house and insurance might not pay out/is unaffordable I don't blame people for trying to defend their house. That being said if you are going to stay and defend you're place you really need to have some firefighting knowledge and a good plan, a plan that takes into account things like water pressure failing from alot of leaks in the system, the understanding that firefighters might be to busy to help you and a unburnable area like a pond or nothing but rocks to retreat too if everything goes south. You also need to be wise enough to realize that if conditions are really bad the fire might be unstoppable. I'd hope for a few hours warning if I had that I turn on my sprinklers full blast for an hour or two & soak the yard, I'd spray the roof thoroughly with a garden hose, I might take a weed whacker/chainsaw to alot of my bushes and then I'd flee.
First we pass Prop 13 and make municipalities dependent on sprawl to support Mello-Roos revenue streams. Then we cut down a forest, kiln-dry it, and transplant it into the chaparral to grow property tax revenue. Then we convince the inhabitants of those dead trees to plant drought-tolerant landscaping loaded with terpenes so we have enough water to continue sprawling to feed the tax revenue cow - NGOs and utilities even paid homeowners to do it. Mix in a little habitat mitigation open space amongst the dead trees, ensuring the sprawl can continue unabated to feed the tax revenue cow. What could go wrong?
90+ % of the residents of these homes were too cheap & living in a false reality to have the trees trimmed, and heavy vegetation removed. i get constant rejection from both wealthy and middle class home owners living un denial.
First. thank you for bringing thoughtful information to us. Second, your maps and associated videos are a crucial part of the story. Please consider doing away with the pictures or your handsome face and your guest, at times. I understand minimize......blessings to you.
I can deal glitches! I knew you'd notice! Yes the emotional harm just from watching! But addicted? Can you interview a mental trauma person?? For Me F age 74....Its like passing a car wreck and knowing you'd best NOT look and the instinct ?? you still look. I know my wanting to "make sense of something my brain can Not make sense of" (is the def of PSTD) fear.... watching also causes dopamine to raise etc etc. I want to Care.. Share the suffering any way possible! I can't be a nimby. Even though I now am in the UK. Not my own forest property above Boise Idaho. Your doing valuable wk!! We all thank You!
Thanks for having me on to discuss all things Pyrogeography! As we said, it’s an important topic and the more knowledge that is passed on to community members, the better!
Thank you for being on and sharing your knowledge.
I have been watching your vids every night. You present the material in a calm manner that really helps. It is stunning how fast the Palisades fire grew in the early hours. I thought that the Mainstream media was exaggerating. I was looking for some proof in what really was going on there on the palisades ridge and now I know. The firefighters were completely overwhelmed with the ember storm. I have immediately called an arborist to do major mitigation work on the outrageous vegetation overgrowth on our property. Thanks for your work- you’ve given our family a chance to survive a wildfire and educated us even when we didn’t know we needed educating. Many thanks.
Very educational again.
I was living in Alameda during the Tunnel Fire and my wife and I were considering buying a house up there previously. When we went up there a few days after it was truly numbing. And, I had seen some gnarly stuff before in life. It’s inevitably bad that new people have come in and are just ignorant of the inherent, historical hazards, builders were greedy/indifferent and laws are not enforced.
Thanks for the fantastic update guys. Really puts this disaster into perspective for those of us that are totally clueless about fires like this
Very much appreciated 👍
The video clip of the ember-cast @10:56 is an excellent capture of what anyone considering hardening or defending their property should be preparing for.
Love listening to you guys talk about this. Thanks Michael Steinberg for being a part of Watch Duty. I've been a member since it began, and reading Cole Eukan's notes on social media.
What a wonderful little channel I have stumbled across. Now. I watch you everyday. I'm completely going down a rabbit hole on fires and what not now. Thank you for the education.
Education is not rabbit hole. Keep learning.
Thanks, Zeke! Love the show, audio glitches and all. (1:30 it gets corrected.)
Content is everything, and the production is honest. Daniel
THANK YOU About to give Up
Sadly, I am afraid that nothing will change. People don’t listen. Too bad. Zeke, Michael you know your stuff. Keep shouting it from the rooftops! I’ll keep sharing.
Sometimes that is the only way people get educated to the need and the only way things change. I know for years the Hotshot firefighter community has been banging their heads against the wall of better pay and now finally congress is starting to talk about increasing that pay.
People would be more willing to listen if they had better options, if insurance was affordable and you could count on insurance to give you full value of you're home, if you got a break in insurance for having more fire resistant landscaping, if you got the money to rebuild somewhere but couldn't re-build in really fire prone areas. Blaming it all on the people is wrong, a corrupt broken system is just as big a part of the problem. Many people realize they have no good options and are like why try?
Eye opening. Thank you for sharing and explaining. The work you’re doing might save homes and lives.
It's hard seeing all those houses burning but thanks for putting all this information out and providing a sane outlet for fire coverage. Your channel is literally the only place I go for fire coverage.
The hedges between houses are taller than single floor homes!! Its crazy!! The Palisades neighborhood wasn’t even close to fire wise standards. Our neighborhood in Northern CA would have had fines up the wazoo from our fire department.
Super interesting video, many thanks to both of you! At about 10 mins you are talking about the blurring of the boundary between wildland and urban fuel, you may have read 'Fire Weather' by John Vaillant about the Fort McMurray fire, he describes how the firefighters had to switch from thinking about houses as structures, to thinking about them as fuel, so they started to bulldoze firebreaks through unburnt homes about 6-8 houses down from existing structure fires to try and stop the spread. Came here via blancolirio. Thanks again!
Hey Zeke one small favor -- when you're showing Google Earth there's a compass in the top right corner showing North, that's helpful for getting oriented to the map. In future could you move THE LOOKOUT logo so it doesn't cover that compass? Anyhow, great show as usual, and highly informative food for thought.
The amount of vegetation is unbelievable. Not surprised at the way the ‘fuse’ of trees and shrubs lit up the neighborhood.
You are awesome, informative and helpful. Your associate was obviously very caring and helpful to fire fighters and victims amidst filming. I grew up in PP and it’s sad to see. Thanks for your work!
Thank you. Our, house, one of the few that survived, was right there against the park at the top of the palisades village, right where the fire slammed in. I cleared extremely aggressively and we are pretty separated from our neighbors but we were very lucky. it was immediately obvious to me that the close packing was literally a recipe for disaster in this confluence of fuel, dryness, and high winds. Everyone just lit up their neighbors. It’s unfortunately just not viable to safely merge so tightly with nature in such a dry / windy climate - but it doesn’t seem to even require the proximity of the chaparral. The fire whipped down the ocean side of PCH blowing from house to house in the same basic way.
' I cleared extremely aggressively and we are pretty separated from our neighbors ', I would think more people would do clearing where possible. We do where I live. Remove fuel, thats definitely part of the problem.
People in LA can be very selective in their ability to hear when you're speaking negatively about something that has a big potential to improve their social standing. I think a lot of people are aware (to some small degree) of the possibility that there could be a fire someday that might threaten their home; they just assume it'll happen to someone else. I think that's also the reason why you see so many people evacuating completely unprepared. It's really sad when you see just how much people are willing to risk to win favor over the opinions of strangers.
It's human nature really. But as Zeke says it doesn't help when big voices like politicians cant speak truthfully about it.
People everywhere, tend to think "The perfect storm hasnt happened here yet, and it wont happen to me" It seems to be human nature.
LA is all about packing as many people in as possible, and maximizing profit off available home building areas.
Everything close together, if you want an urban forest on your lot you can have it. Just look how quick it can go south, minutes.
What will be done? Start re-building much the same as it was.
The state has passed law that every cities housing element increase number of builds per year by a significant amount, especially for fully developed cities. This means building farther up into the hills or cram multifamily buildings in small cities (bulldozing churches and parks)
As a point, the neighborhoods shown of the streets in the Oakland Hills Fire illustrate the payout of replacement insurance on 850 sq ft bungalow under new codes, so basically giving homeowners a check for 2.5 to 4 times the market value prior to the fire. Most people added an additional construction loan and built a 2600 sq ft 2 story home on the same .20 acre lot. Super dense resultant neighborhood with only on- street parking on a one lane winding road.
The idea is, it happened once, it cant happen again. Which makes zero sense.
That is hard to imagine in an era when you pay sky high insurance premiums and get little to nothing when you need it. What the hell has happened to our society?
Interesting about ‘deer resistant vegetation’. That’s all people plant unless they have snake or deer fencing in gold country.
Brilliant coverage Michael. So helpful in understanding WUI , fire, structure protection, etc
Wow. Heavy story tonight. I so appreciate the information, insight, and thoughtfulness in your interactions and sharings here. I have an idea for future videos: discussions about building techniques in new construction that are fire resistant but, more interestingly, ways to retrofit existing structures to make them more resistant and defensible - I am thinking in particular about eves and what a danger they pose. I learned quite a bit here about landscaping dos and donts. I also appreciated your encouragement for people to get involved in fuels reduction work and get familiar with tools, PPE, pumps as to make them more capable defenders of their own properties. All interesting as hell to me. Thanks again.
Altadena was similar to the Tubbs Fire burning into Coffee Park, Santa Rosa, CA 7 years ago. 6000 structures
As a member of a Fire Safe Council in rural El Dorado I have become keenly aware of the importance denfensable space. When I visit my brother in El Dorado Hills I am stunned by the trees and landscaping up against the expensive homes.
all that scrub oak and brush for fuel is nuts. I can't fathom not removing where it threatens houses.
At 6:00 seeing all that brush without a fireroad or break in the brush anywhere is crazy!!
Excellent addition with photos and CSU student!
At lease utilities were undergrounded after Oakland Hills fire and some streets were widened.
Thanks guys....so much.
I left San Diego (& CA) in 2002. My brother & wife remained there & I recalled seeing the newspaper clippings from SD. I was horrified. If there was ever a "sign" that gave me confirmation that I left CA at the "right" time, it was seeing those pix from the paper.
Great topics and insights. Thanks again for another great discussion.
Well, the fact the homes are packed so close to each other is also a major factor. It’s a failure of the local government’s (Los Angeles) zoning code.
I think this might be one of my favorite videos from you. Compelling and science-backed educational information.
“If you’re just joining us for the first time…” where have you been?
This was a very informative video. You fellas know your stuff.
Watching from Ireland 🇮🇪
Excellent information.
Thank you.
I remember the Tunnel fire well, was living in the east bay then. My ex and I had good friends who lived in the Oakland hills and had to evacuate quickly. Fortunately they got out in time.
You are awesome Zeek. Maybe one of the future episodes could dig into what people who lost their homes need to do to recover, or have someone as a guest to direct them? We live in Serene Lakes full time and we are totally grateful for you and your knowledge.
I heard that there were a lot of Eucalyptus trees planted in Cal. Is this correct ? From NZ.
In Northern California (the East Bay) a guy thought Eucalyptus would be good lumber, made a plantation. Went broke when the breakable nature of the wood was discovered. He abandoned the plantation and the tree spread and naturalized to the area. IDK about SoCal.
Yes, there are huge amounts of Eucalyptus trees in California, unfortunately they create all sorts of challenges, like the non-native palms. Locals should plant as many native oaks as possible.
Yes, since many years back, huge rows of eucalyptus have been planted as windbreaks. You see them a lot on the borders of farm land. People also use them in landscaping because they grow well in the climate and look pretty. Unfortunately they're highly flammable.
Can you discuss the root fires that we can see as well? It's a fascinating phenomena that no one really talks about and it looks like it played a role in these fires. Best and thank you for the great videos.
Are you talking about roots on fire, burning underground for long periods of time before flaring up? If that’s what you’re talking about, what role do you think root fires played in either the Eaton or Palisades fires?
@@MarcosElMalo2 There are several videos where you can see the bottom of the vegitation smoking or burning, one right beside a house and I have to wonder if it helped play a role. That said, this was one hell of a fire storm, but for cleaning out any vegitation around buildings - this would be a great lesson.
Hi Marcos, a video by Jeffostroff (TH-cam) discusses this in relation to the palisades, and the New Years fire that most likely reignited later due to incompletely extinguished below ground vegetation.
This s a common problem here in Australia.
He’s well worth watching.
@@ruthbentley2090 Thank you. I will look him up.
Good info guys! gave me some good ideas on further fire hardening my foothills home, Thanks for all you do sir. Be safe out there to the both of you.
Great coverage. I’m here because I saw a comment on another video that your knowledge was excellent.
This was a really fascinating presentation... thank you both!
Geez, what the heck people? The I absolutely no defensible space, nothing but fuels for a fire to come looking for. We get hammered by CALFire inspectors and insur companies here in N CA to reduce fuels.
Glad you corrected the audio quickly. The reverb was excruciating to listen to at the beginning.
@52:58 - Wow, on the left side of the screen…Those homes built right into the cliff. Beautiful but so risky. California is so beautiful…Some of those street views you showed are fantastic neighborhoods built into the natural surroundings.
Wow, crazy too see a documented time line! Thank you for bringing this interview. I truly hope we get away from stick built structures and over landscaped properties.
Michael from Chico, right? Appreciate your work. Been following you on Twitter for years.
What is the handle?
That’s so interesting about the curtains igniting from the radiant heat !
Home that survived in Pacific Palisades): What kind of ROOF [??] and what kind of SIDING used on that home [??] Thanks ... We should probably learn everythimg possible about the construction of that home .....
Thank you guys. Amazing analysis
I find it shocking that wood mulch is allowed in California. Builders and realtors surround homes with it because it looks nice.
Its cheap to dump wood chips. And excellent slow burning kindling sometimes laid on pretty deep.
This is very educational. Thank you! Bless all effected 🙏❤
that area you wanna turn into a park. each home is 10-20 mil…
you saw rustic canyon below - didnt burn. it typically doesnt. it has a lot of oak trees. curious if the steep canyon drop / windbreak / oak trees helped it.
great video. yeah we will need to build defensible houses with true desert landscape. one thing nobody does anymore in 50s home are rock roofs.
Shaded and more moisture in the canyon presumably
Some years ago in the Woolsey California fire, the winds were clocked approaching 165 Mph; A concrete traffic signal post was broke in half from the intensity.
In the Orange wildfire of January 6, 2003, the Santa Ana winds toppled 26 power poles.
The deadliest California wildfire started near the town of Paradise, called the ‘Camp Fire’ as the 85 deaths were in the town of Camp, California, scorching some 150,000 acres. It was caused by a 115Kv power line arcing against its tower, showering the chaparral below with 5000 degree blobs of aluminum.
Great channel 😊 I’m wondering where can i find latest operations maps for Palisades? Thank you in advance!
What is the overlay software or plugin you’re using with Google Earth ? Obviously it’s custom. Is there any subscription to access ?
Duly appreciate and applaud your excellent work here to review this devastating calamity.👍 With due respect, making excuses for the Santa Ynez reservoir being empty i.e. the hydrants; But having water obviously would’ve offset an unknown amount of damage.
There’s several accounts of homeowners having their own private water supply plus their pool water and 100’-200’ hoses, where not only did they save their home but several of their neighbors as well. Some have roof and eave sprinklers. Some were wealthy enough to have private firefighter contractors to supplement and even replace having to rely on city services.
Zeke - I notice a lot of clay tile roofs in Summit Park - do you think that contributed to its survival?
He actually talks about the summit neighborhood and the factors that may have saved it in yesterday evening's video. Iirc, in the second half of the video yesterday.
@Graciousgiraffe I saw that but I don't think he mentioned the clay roofs?
A lot of echoes. Good now. Thank you both.
The only solution to the firefighting water supply may be to run large pipes up the main roads, carrying pressurized salt water for emergencies. Thank you guys.
How do gutters worsen a homes fire risk? Is it the accumulated debris in gutters, or their shape, or what? Since gutters are made of metal, one wouldn’t see them as a fire risk. Also, do gutter guards (screens that keep debris out but allow rain water to flow into the gutter) improve fire risk? Thanks.
I lived in Forest Ranch CA surrounded by 100 ft pines, cedars, and firs. Allot of fuel debris shed onto our double wide trailer, even though I removed all the big trees to at least 50 feet around it. So I installed gutter cover that kept the gutters clean of needles. It was expensive (made of metal, and not a screen) but it would also keep embers from gathering in the gutters in a fire. I also blew off all the needles from on top of the roof with a leaf blower several times a year, especially during the dry season.
Wow, great presentation guys,👏 good info and historical accounts to review and compare. Makes me wonder if leadership would take the time or even care to see your documentation and examples and speak to you of the why and how and what to do or not do for rebuilding. I think everyone casts aspersions to insurance companies for not insuring or canceling policies but you're right, they're going to use the tools such as you use to determine it's a matter of when and not good business to stick around for the inevitable loss. So sad that lives were lost and now all the displacement and anxiety over paying a mortgage and property taxes for lost property. My heart hurts for the State of CA and our nation because we are all affected somehow. I don't think the local and state leadership there are focused on the real priorities.
For Halloween, you guys should be pirate geographers.😅
Excellent video thank you
What is also interesting to hear is that not only did you have the Santa Ana winds but you had a Mountain Wave (high winds aloft) that surfaced adding to the wind speeds.
As a landscaper I avoided putting down bark as a mulch. I preferred compost Compost. Compost isn’t flammable plus it quickly breaks down in the soil and provides organic matter fertilizer. So stay away from putting bark on landscapes and use compost.
What isn’t well known is that many of the ‘embers’ are the size of softballs; They’re huge balls of fire 🔥
10:55 that footage is insane with all the embers flying around the neighborhood streets O_O
Just want you know that there is a HUGE echo on this particular streem. OK, you fixed it! Yeah!
I see a big beautiful Olympic village and facilities in the palasaides former location.
Please do a sound check!
You mean 1:30?
1961 Bel Air Fire was basically the same thing just smaller scale. Almost 500 homes burning down 60 years ago in Los Angeles is a big number back then.
What if you "stay and defend" yet you're in a neighborhood where it is burned down, I would imagine the City would "displace" you because of the rules, etc., of safety etc., right? I hope someone can say something about this.
Like most people that don't know what they are talking about.I was about to give my opinion , but it is better to remain silent than show how uninformed I'm on the subject.
I have hope for the future because our young people are being more mindful and using wisdom to create better cities. Imagine a future (John Lennon song) Imagine!! Thank you for this wonderful episode!
Why didn't those Palisades folks all have sprinkler systems on their roofs and yards being they all knew the danger of high winds.
So, Zeke. What do you think about Chico, the "City of Trees". Much of the city is like a canopy of forest of one sort or another.
Its too green to want to burn?
We did a big project for Chico FD last year on this topic. Google 'Chico CWPP' and read the document/maps.
So here's the thing. I looked at 10:56. The main fuel seems to be other homes, not the vegetation. I'm not convinced getting rid of aesthetic vegetation like gardens will do anything. I'm not convinced having 100 feet of clearance will be any better than spitting on a wildfire when you have a fire hurricane that is not stopped by the PCH and was only stopped by the ocean. If the PCH was as wide as the 60-57 interchange (14-17 lanes), I bet those embers would have crossed that gap too. The gaps that the embers flew were huge and well beyond any reasonable amount of vegetation clearance. What good is it to remove all of my trees and vegetation with gravel? The embers will just laugh at my gravel and land on my home. Building with concrete or brick introduces the threat of dying via earthquake. The more honest way to fight this fire is to introduce a firebreak by deliberately burning all of the unburned homes on a street that could serve as a firebreak because homes are the fuel, not vegetation. Nobody is going to actually do that but that's the deep down honest truth.
My point is it seems like there is nothing we can do. To say we can prevent homes from burning up in the West is a bit dishonest. Your solutions like not building at the edge of a cliiff and having access to the rear of every property are a joke against a fire hurricane.
Yikes, what's up with the duplicate audio - echo echo echo lol. 🤪😵💫
We fixed it, sorry.
Heyo it’s a wild Michael!
Trippy into
No I think that the house burning is what made the mulch start to burn. High density housing is the biggest problem / factor with fires like this. IMHO and 40 + years in the fire service.
8 min in , were you guys able to get any water on any of the houses ?
There is an echo chamber
Good audio starts at 1:40
Double audio!!!!!
Quintuple exclamation points!!!!!
Why do you guys sound have an echo effect on?
Hey I was hoping to listen tonight but the sound has a lot of reverb
Skip to about minute 2:00, we fixed it
Just what I thought. Knowing what I have learned over the last week, if I owned an insurance agency, id b crazy to cover homes in certain areas. It’s a hard truth, I know but it’s not being sinister, it’s being smart. Just what it is.
It's sad to me that these people in those areas aren't immediately thinking 'oh that means my home is not safe' but instead thinking they are entitled to it because 'I've lived here 20 years' or whatever.
Insurance companies gamble, but they gamble to win. They can take all the mandated money in on millions of homes for many years.
Nothing happens and they make billions.
Something happens they cant be paying out to everyone non stop. Shareholders matter.
Corporations do not gamble to lose, there are "re-insurance" corporations that insure the insurance companies.
But in general too much loss and they will pull up stakes and leave.
There are people here in nor cal, the land of big fires, that are living in multi million dollar homes, and deciding to go with out insurance.
And more and more average homeowners doing the same. They have to calculate the risk against the reward of paying so much money to insurance companies.
When there aren't nearly enough firefighters to protect every house and insurance might not pay out/is unaffordable I don't blame people for trying to defend their house. That being said if you are going to stay and defend you're place you really need to have some firefighting knowledge and a good plan, a plan that takes into account things like water pressure failing from alot of leaks in the system, the understanding that firefighters might be to busy to help you and a unburnable area like a pond or nothing but rocks to retreat too if everything goes south. You also need to be wise enough to realize that if conditions are really bad the fire might be unstoppable. I'd hope for a few hours warning if I had that I turn on my sprinklers full blast for an hour or two & soak the yard, I'd spray the roof thoroughly with a garden hose, I might take a weed whacker/chainsaw to alot of my bushes and then I'd flee.
What the heck is going on with the echo???
Scripps Ranch is infested with eucalyptus groves
First we pass Prop 13 and make municipalities dependent on sprawl to support Mello-Roos revenue streams. Then we cut down a forest, kiln-dry it, and transplant it into the chaparral to grow property tax revenue. Then we convince the inhabitants of those dead trees to plant drought-tolerant landscaping loaded with terpenes so we have enough water to continue sprawling to feed the tax revenue cow - NGOs and utilities even paid homeowners to do it. Mix in a little habitat mitigation open space amongst the dead trees, ensuring the sprawl can continue unabated to feed the tax revenue cow. What could go wrong?
90+ % of the residents of these homes were too cheap & living in a false reality to have the trees trimmed, and heavy vegetation removed. i get constant rejection from both wealthy and middle class home owners living un denial.
Captions working tonight. I probably screwed it up last night. I’m a tech Luddite.
Your repeater effect is too fast for me.
First. thank you for bringing thoughtful information to us. Second, your maps and associated videos are a crucial part of the story. Please consider doing away with the pictures or your handsome face and your guest, at times. I understand minimize......blessings to you.
I can deal glitches! I knew you'd notice!
Yes the emotional harm just from watching! But addicted? Can you interview a mental trauma person?? For Me F age 74....Its like passing a car wreck and knowing you'd best NOT look and the instinct ?? you still look.
I know my wanting to "make sense of something my brain can Not make sense of" (is the def of PSTD) fear.... watching also causes dopamine to raise etc etc.
I want to Care.. Share the suffering any way possible! I can't be a nimby. Even though I now am in the UK. Not my own forest property above Boise Idaho.
Your doing valuable wk!! We all thank You!
How about downtown Los Angeles? Has it been in fire as yet?
Why do you think downtown L.A. is threatened by wildfires?
Concrete doesn't burn like dry chapparral....less fuel to burn in DTLA.
YOUR buffering bad. Echo is horrible!